BBF crankshafts. Who do you recomend?

[beached 1]

After this summer, I'm planning on stroking my BBF into somewhere in the 500+ cu range. So far, (although I haven't looked really hard) I can't find sh*t. Crower whom I've been very happy with for my chevy, don't have much according to their web site. This is all I could find.
95187C - CRANKSHAFT Billet Ford 429-460 Custom Stroke (Holes Incl)
- $2628.10
2600 bucks seems a little steep. I would like a forged crank. Anyone with a suggestion is appreciated. Also, what strokes = what in cu in? Stock bore of course.
Thanks,
[ January 22, 2003, 09:51 PM: Message edited by: beached 1 ]

[Miss Flat Broke]

Beached,
Call George at Clay Smith. He has some tricks up his sleeve in this arena that will have you pleasantly surprised on the pricing side. :)
Chris

[Jordy]

Miss Flat Broke:
Beached,
Chris Sure is a cute avatar you have going there Chris... :D

[SPECTRABRENT]

Garritt,
Your Spectra would love a 514 Ford.
According to the SVO Catalog you could buy a 514 short block, you should check with the local Ford dealer for the price. I would also get some new exhaust (like Hackjobs Lighting's or IMCO's).
Miss Flat Broke is right on about (George) @ Clay Smith Cams.
PLease email me your address and I will send some stickers & Spectra shirt's for you and the Mrs.. Let me know about the size, I have M,L,XL, XXL.
Good Luck,
Brent

[Hustler]

Brent, save the money on the mailing, I will see him on saturday

[beached 1]

Cool Brent, I'll send you an e-mail. If I could stroke this 460 to a 514, I think it would really help the bottom end. This stainless A feels a little to tall for this motor. Thanks again for the line on Freds boat. I couldn't be happier. It's kind of a trip how often people stop me on the water and say, "Hey man, nice Spectra!".
Thanks Chris, I'll call Clay smith and see what they think I should do. I'm in no hurry. Just going to start gathering up all the needed parts as I go until next winter.
Hustler, you got my #. Ring me up at SX. Let's kill some coolies. Glad to hear you've found some tix!

[mister460]

Off the top of my head a standard BBF 460 crank can easily be stroked to 4.3" and handle LOTS of power. Ford used cast steel cranks that are pretty stout. Unless you're planning on making over a grand worth of ponies, you'll be ok with a stock stroked cranked. Where do you think the Ford SVO 514 get's it's crank from? Talk to any reputable machine shop and they should be able to hook you up with a stroked crank for WAY cheaper than you think. I know of a good shop that can stroke a BBF crank for about $175. Then just build it with good parts and leave everyone in your wake.

[LeadFootTheRabbit]

Beached1, you might try CALIFORNIA CRANKSHAFT in San Bernardino on 3rd st. I believe. Used to be called LaDonna's crankshaft. They can stroke yours (crankshaft) or help you find an aftermarket unit. They've helped me out a coupla times. I'll find the ph # tomorrow and post it.
LDFTRBT
[ January 24, 2003, 11:06 PM: Message edited by: LeadFootTheRabbit ]

[bmff]

What about that 700 hp 540 bbf built by Drew Backlund. 460 2bolt block,offset turned stock crank and 6cyl truck rods----then as much good stuff as you want. These are put in offshores,not just for drags. I think he also sells stroker kits. Sure looks good to me.

[beached 1]

LeadFootTheRabbit:
Beached1, you might try CALIFORNIA CRANKSHAFT in San Bernardino on 3rd st. I believe. Used to be called LaDonna's crankshaft. They can stroke yours (crankshaft) or help you find an aftermarket unit. They've helped me out a coupla times. I'll find the ph # tomorrow and post it.
LDFTRBT If you mean Latona instead of Ladonna, I know who you are talking about. I have a friend who owns a machine shop and would send all his cranks to Dick Latona in San B. The guy died a few years ago, but was the best according to my buddy. I put one of his cranks in the last 427 I built.
Speaking of which, I bounced all this off of my buddy and he suggested that for the $$ to do what I want, we could go through my 460 and add twin turbos. So, I'm going to talk to tom down at Turbo city in Aneheim next week and see if that can happen.
It a sickness.
:D

[LeadFootTheRabbit]

Your right it is or was Latona. My memory seems to fade at times. Anyhow, he did nice work. The new owners have been good to me also. They spun the crank for my jeep motor. Also a Ford. 351-C
LDFTRBT

[SPECTRABRENT]

Beached 1,
Did you get the shirts & stickers?
Brent

[LakesOnly]

Beached1,
The rod journal size on a Ford 460 crank is 2.5 inches. The rod journal size of your Chevy 454 is 2.2 inches.
When most people build Ford 514 Stroker, the stock Ford 460 crank's rod journals are ground off-center and down to 2.2 inches to accept the Chevy rod (don't remember the Chevy rod length).
The stock 460 stroke is 3.85 inches; there are two 514's that can be built:
--4.15 stroke and 4.44 (.080" over) bore = 514ci, or
--4.3 stroke and 4.36 bore = 514ci.
idea Note on the first option that the std 460 bore is 4.36" and if you overbore .080 to 4.44", you should use a D1VE casting numbered (pre-1972) block.
idea Note on the second option that the std 460 bore is 4.36" and if you overbore .030 to 4.39", you will have a 521ci.
I have heard the arguement that turning the Ford journal down this much technically weakens the crank; however, I have never heard of one of these crankshafts failing.
Ford never offered a forged crankshaft for the 460 engine. Depending on how radical a motor you are building, you may want to consider addtional (strengthening) work to a stroked crank, such as nitriding/case hardening.
SCAT and Eagle offer Ford stroker cranks and also complete stroker rotating assemblies for less than the price of the crank that you located from Crower. I don't remember offhand, but I believe they offer forged stroker cranks too.
Finally, here is a link to a displacement table:
http://car.race-cars.net/calculators/displacement_calculator.html
LO
[ January 29, 2003, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: LakesOnly ]

[LakesOnly]

[ January 29, 2003, 09:27 PM: Message edited by: LakesOnly ]

[LakesOnly]

[ January 29, 2003, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: LakesOnly ]

[beached 1]

Brent,
Not yet. I'll be seeing Hustler at Supercros this weekend though.
Thanks again.
LO,
Thanks for all the info. I appreciate it. I currently have a D1VE block with the low comp D3VE heads. I snaked some stock DOVE heads recently. If I choose not to go with turbos, I'd like to send the DOVEs out to be ported and use em. Would a 514 with DOVE's push my comp over the pump gas range? Or can I achieve approx 10-1/12-1 compression with the D3VEs with flat top pistons @ 514 ci?
[ January 30, 2003, 07:23 AM: Message edited by: beached 1 ]

[flat broke]

Beached,
When you order up your new pistons (you'll need to because of the new rod length and stroke) you should be able to get a good variety of heights to yeild a suitable CR. Call George!
Chris

[Blown 472]

beached 1:
Brent,
Not yet. I'll be seeing Hustler at Supercros this weekend though.
Thanks again.
LO,
Thanks for all the info. I appreciate it. I currently have a D1VE block with the low comp D3VE heads. I snaked some stock DOVE heads recently. If I choose not to go with turbos, I'd like to send the DOVEs out to be ported and use em. Would a 514 with DOVE's push my comp over the pump gas range? Or can I achieve approx 10-1/12-1 compression with the D3VEs with flat top pistons @ 514 ci? Check out the Keith Black hyperutectic piston site, lots of good info even if you dont use their stuff.

[beached 1]

hey Chris, as always thanks for your $.02. I plan to call Clay smith for sure.
Blown, I ran a search and found this site?
http://www.kb-silvolite.com/

[LakesOnly]

beached 1:
I currently have a D1VE block with the low comp D3VE heads. I snaked some stock DOVE heads recently. If I choose not to go with turbos, I'd like to send the DOVEs out to be ported and use em. Would a 514 with DOVE's push my comp over the pump gas range? Or can I achieve approx 10-1/12-1 compression with the D3VEs with flat top pistons @ 514 ci? Both the D3VE and D0VE castings are really good. And both require a certain amount of porting to get the desired results from each casting. The D0VE castings were simply the higher compression, mass-produced passenger car head and were made before emissions started compromising performance (which is why the chamber volume increased with the D3's along with the advent of the air injection bosses). I am running D3VE's and so are many other people. Choosing which casting to use is really just a matter of the application and maybe how much time/money you will spend on port work--particularly on the exhaust ports (<---research this).
With a 4.3" stroke, 4.39" bore and flat tops without valve reliefs, you are looking at about 12.5:1 to 13:1 compression ratio with the D0VE heads and about 10.5:1 with the D3VE heads.
Personally, in such a stroked motor that will use pump gas, I would run the D3VE heads with or without turbos and get the appropriate pistons for the application.
(Note: I currently am running factory stroke and 11:1 pistons, and straight pump gas detonated my pistons burningm ...you will probably be blending fuel, bud.)
Keep in mind that if you are building some crazy super horsepower monster and you need to fill the combustion chambers of the D3VE heads with dome-top pistons, your choices are currently limited; you might want to go with the 76cc D0VE's. I don't think this applies in your (stroker/turbo) case.
The follwong link has a great deal of infromation about the 429/460 engine family:
http://www.reincarnation-automotive.com/
LO

[beached 1]

Looks like I'll be going with the 4.3 crank. I'm not so sure how much more I could go with a stock block. I haven't had a chance to call Clay Smith yet, but found a shop out in Florida that will sell me a SCAT crank, pro lite rods and forged (can'r remember what brand) pistons for 2k. Depending on how much Crower is going to want for a Cam, lifters, rockers, etc and how much to port the heads, it's looking pretty good that I'll be going ahead and doing all of this now instead of waiting till next winter. hope, I hope. After all, I'm going to have to at least tear the heads off to see what bore I'm at now before I order the pistons.
I called Turbo City in Anaheim. He said they haven't made a kit for a boat in a number of years, so F that. It was a pipe dream anyway.

[SPECTRABRENT]

When are you going to start your project?
Brent

[Hustler]

Garrit, I would look into something differant than the Scat crank, I know some people have had good luck with them but I also know some people that have had problems with spinning bearings. I would much rather spend a little extra for a better quality crank that is forged here in the US and not China. but thats just my opinion :D

[Blown 472]

beached 1:
Looks like I'll be going with the 4.3 crank. I'm not so sure how much more I could go with a stock block. I haven't had a chance to call Clay Smith yet, but found a shop out in Florida that will sell me a SCAT crank, pro lite rods and forged (can'r remember what brand) pistons for 2k. Depending on how much Crower is going to want for a Cam, lifters, rockers, etc and how much to port the heads, it's looking pretty good that I'll be going ahead and doing all of this now instead of waiting till next winter. hope, I hope. After all, I'm going to have to at least tear the heads off to see what bore I'm at now before I order the pistons.
I called Turbo City in Anaheim. He said they haven't made a kit for a boat in a number of years, so F that. It was a pipe dream anyway. Maybe you could talk to Engine Systems? they are out of Georgia and do nothing but big block fords.

[beached 1]

I'll be pulling the engine out today or tomorrow. Depends on how soon I can get home from work. As soon as I can get it all apart, the better. Then I can see what I got to work with.
So, scats are made in China? Perhaps I'll have to do a little research on their reliability. I didn't plan on just throwing it in motor right out of the box however. I will be sending the crank, rods, pistons, harmonic balancer and flex plate out to be balanced as a unit. Also the crank to be micro polished and holes champhered if it isn't already. But thanks Joe for the heads up.

[flat broke]

beached 1:
I'll be pulling the engine out today or tomorrow. Depends on how soon I can get home from work. As soon as I can get it all apart, the better. Then I can see what I got to work with.
So, scats are made in China? Perhaps I'll have to do a little research on their reliability. I didn't plan on just throwing it in motor right out of the box however. I will be sending the crank, rods, pistons, harmonic balancer and flex plate out to be balanced as a unit. Also the crank to be micro polished and holes champhered if it isn't already. But thanks Joe for the heads up. Beached,
Are you getting a 9000 series crank with that kit, or forged? The 9000 series crank is a chinese cast crank turned and detailed here in the U.S. Before you throw any coin down, get pricing from your current source and then Call George, I'd bet a box of donuts and a case of beer he would elect to index grind the stock crank (If it hasn't been turned up the ass) over the Chinese cast model. Also in doing a little checking, I couldn't find a Scat Pro Lite rod, so I'd find out what's up with that. If you want to buy everything as a kit, the part number through Scat is 1-520HPS for a 4.3 stroke cast crank, set of 4340 forged H beam 6.800 length rods, and a set of forged 4.390 bore SRP pistons. You can call scat directly to get the pricing as they will do retail sales. They're catalog can be found online HERE (http://www.scatcrankshafts.com/2003crank%20catalog.pdf)
Honestly, I think you can do better than the pricing on that kit if your crank is salvageable. If I recall, the index grind/polish/chamfer work on a useable stock crank will run around $300-$350, a set of SRPs for your setup shouldn't be more than $600 including pins and locks, with a set of rods running you around $700 on the high side. One of the great things about going through George, is that he gets great pricing and doesn't hesitate to pass that down to you. His machine shop price list falls in line with what you would pay a shop with far less experience.
As far as Scat's quality, time will tell if you wanted to wait. I'll be picking my new forged crank up for my BBC today. The first thing that is getting done when it gets home is a full dimensional blueprint. I could probably tell you by Friday if there were inconsistencies in their machining. As far as the strength, only use and a little abuse will tell you that.
Good luck,
Chris

[SPECTRABRENT]

Garrit & Chris,
What is the quality of the FORD (SVO) long block & short block 514?
I would think for the $$$ the FORD (SVO) 514 product would be better.
Brent

[058]

SPECTRABRENT:
Garrit & Chris,
What is the quality of the FORD (SVO) long block & short block 514?
I would think for the $$$ the FORD (SVO) 514 product would be better.
Brent Personally I think you can do better building your own 514. The SVO crate uses std. 460 rod journal size so you are somewhat limited to rod selection as opposed to BBC journal dia. and aftermarket rods. With prices as cheap as they are for parts you can build a short block for about 2/3rds the price of the crate s/b and have a better engine.

[LakesOnly]

058:
SPECTRABRENT:
Garrit & Chris,
What is the quality of the FORD (SVO) long block & short block 514?
I would think for the $$$ the FORD (SVO) 514 product would be better.
Brent Personally I think you can do better building your own 514. The SVO crate uses std. 460 rod journal size so you are somewhat limited to rod selection as opposed to BBC journal dia. and aftermarket rods. With prices as cheap as they are for parts you can build a short block for about 2/3rds the price of the crate s/b and have a better engine. I agree with 058. Spend the money wisely and custom tailor the rebuild to your specific application.
By the way, I too heard that SCAT 9000 cranks were failing, BUT this was some years ago and I was told Quality Control had improved since then (maybe that's why the final touches to those cranks are done in the U.S. now?). Don't quote me on this.
Here is a photo of my stock 460 crank that has been reworked. Lightly chamfered, polished, knife-edged (pointed counterweights), case hardened, balanced, etc.
http://a4.cpimg.com/image/C4/69/14851524-5510-0200017F-.jpg
Sorry, I don't have a price for all this machine work for you. But hopefully you have a good stock seasoned crank to start with. Good crank grinders that stroke crank throws are getting hard to come by in my neck-of-the-woods; can anybody out there recommend to Beached1 one or two reputable, veteran crankshaft grinders? The must be several of those in Southern Californa alone.
LO

[beached 1]

A crate motor is tempting only because it would take a lot less work out of all this. But, I'm a dumbass. I want to build my own for two reasons. I will know what's in it and I've never built a Ford before.
I tried to get a hold of George @ Clay Smith but he was busy with a customer at the time and I didn't get a chance to call back. But I will.

[flat broke]

A little side note about the folks at Scat Enterprises...
I ordered a forged and nitrided 4" stroke BBC crank to get my motor back together with. There were some delays getting it, but nothing too crazy. The day after I picked up the crank, I got the news that there was damage to 2 ring lands on my pistons and I was going to need to replace them. Rather than spend good money on the same displacement, I opted to see if I could up my stroke when I bought the new pistons. I called Scat to see about exchanging the unopened crank, and they said sure. At that point I ordered up a 4.25 forged unit. It took them longer than anticipated to finish the crank and when I picked it up yesterday, I'm loading it into the truck when the rep tells me, "I upgraded your crank because of the delays". As it turned out mine hadn't been polished yet and rather than send me home empty handed again, he sported for about a $400 upgrade at no cost to me. I never bitched or moaned and they stepped up all on their own. Hopefully the durability of the part proves to be as satisfactory as the the customer service. Thumbs up for Brian over at Scat.
Chris

[Builder]

SVO sells crate 514 motors with cobra jet heads for a reasonable price with a warrantee.They also have a 530 ci (I Think)rotating assembly for a good price.
Trick Flow Heads are sometimes available through Summit.

[Hustler]

flat broke:
A little side note about the folks at Scat Enterprises...
I ordered a forged and nitrided 4" stroke BBC crank to get my motor back together with. There were some delays getting it, but nothing too crazy. The day after I picked up the crank, I got the news that there was damage to 2 ring lands on my pistons and I was going to need to replace them. Rather than spend good money on the same displacement, I opted to see if I could up my stroke when I bought the new pistons. I called Scat to see about exchanging the unopened crank, and they said sure. At that point I ordered up a 4.25 forged unit. It took them longer than anticipated to finish the crank and when I picked it up yesterday, I'm loading it into the truck when the rep tells me, "I upgraded your crank because of the delays". As it turned out mine hadn't been polished yet and rather than send me home empty handed again, he sported for about a $400 upgrade at no cost to me. I never bitched or moaned and they stepped up all on their own. Hopefully the durability of the part proves to be as satisfactory as the the customer service. Thumbs up for Brian over at Scat.
Chris Hey Chris, How much did they charge you for the crank? Also are you sayng they want an extra $400 to polish a crank? Is'nt that something that should be done on a new crank when you buy it? So what is your final displacement going to be? 496?

[flat broke]

Joe,
No they weren't going to charge me an extra 400 for polishing. They hadn't gotten the crank I ordered through polishing yet, so rather than have me wait again, they gave me a different model crank that was already completed. Same piece dimensionally, just a higher end unit. I got out the door for somethin over 600 with tax, but if I were to go in today and order the crank they gave me, it would be considerably more.
Yeah, I'll be at 496 when all is said and done. It kind of sucks because a Big M is only 1900 more and would get me to 540 with the cost of pistons basically being the same. But you have to draw the line somewhere, so thats where I drew it. I hope that clears everything up. The bottom line is the guys at Scat took good care to keep me happy as a customer even when I didn't even complain.
Chris

[waterslinger]

Beached, Did you get your motor out and check the bore? Brent started porting my Edelbrock heads
he is a go getter out of the box just will not cut it with him. Hope to get my boat in two weeks
called tim at pro boat he is doing my bowl now.
Tax money will finish up the job. I want to go 80.
All my boys with clamp on's are calling me out.
It is my goal to come out swinging and spraying.
Waterslinger

[beached 1]

Waterslinger,
I've been sick as a dog since last wed, so I've been moving around the garage like snail. I did get the motor out last sun however and tore it down. I was glad to see the block was stock bore. Everything is down at my friends machine shop getting looked over, block is getting dipped, etc. As soon as I can talk with my friend, I'll give your guy a call. Thanks again for the tip.
One thing I found that made me scratch my head. The domes on the D0VE and the D3VE look identical. Is that right? Did they make 2 different D0VEs? One for a 429 and perhaps a lower comp one for the 460?. Can any one tell me what the cc's are on a DOVE-C and D3VE-A2A?

[Blown 472]

Dove's 76 cc's d3ve's 92 cc's they got a bigger cc buy making the chamber bigger towards the top of the head this cuts some of the flow out of exhaust side if you look in the exhaust ports you can see the difference.

[hack job]

Blown 472:
Dove's 76 cc's d3ve's 92 cc's they got a bigger cc buy making the chamber bigger towards the top of the head this cuts some of the flow out of exhaust side if you look in the exhaust ports you can see the difference. this is why you prt your heads and they will flow better than a dove head . just my .02 i know form experiance. i have d3ve-a2a on my motor and i was told to run them they would flow better if they were worked ( ported) then the dove heads. just a thought save you money beached go to george he is the man.
look at my heads
http://www.plumbersassracing.com/images/engine/rocker3.gif
and here again
http://www.plumbersassracing.com/images/engine/port1.gif

[hack job]

oh and george also did my cranks i wish i had pcs of it before i put it in but it was great and its plenty strong once it has been offset gound. believe me george would never let any thing go out of his shop if it wasnt(he has a hugh reputation to keep one of the reasons he still works there)
i know its a bit of a drive beached but i would just go down there you will never geta hold of him on the phone.he s always to busy to answer the phone. they arent open on friday-sunday. but form 9 -6 mon- thur. great place.is all i can say.