Will the real Merlin Please stand up?

[jlnorthrup122]

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/engines/eng33.jpg
SPECIFICATIONS
Model: V-1650-7
Type: 12-cylinder with two-stage mechanically-driven supercharger
Displacement: 1,649 cu.in.
Weight: 1,690 lbs.
Max. RPM: 3,000
Max. HP: 1,695
http://nasaui.ited.uidaho.edu/nasaspark/safety/history/merlinschematic.jpg
I hope to some day find this engine to install in a 24'cat I am designing and plan on starting const. in 2 weeks or less depending on how quickly the framework goes on the drawing board.

[Sleek-Jet]

There was an article last year in Air & Space Smithsonian on the Big V-12's (Feb/March 2002). The way it sounded to go in the article was use a Griffon. Still some 0 time one's left, and at less cost than the Merlins.
They talked about the few shops left that still overhaul the Rolls, and Allison V-12's.
And you don't need one, you need two of those bad boys. :D
[ May 24, 2003, 10:30 PM: Message edited by: Sleek-Jet ]

[jlnorthrup122]

2 would be nice I know where I can get a almost complete merlin for 2 grand less the crank piston and cam. My wife would kill me if I went out and bought it rite now and I would like to find a complete setup possibly in an old warbird salvage yard. I know they put the packard production merlin in the mustang p 51 a's & some B's along with the Lancaster bombers. the landcaster bomber applications are the best to find because thay usually always have the supercharger on em for the highaltude and seapresure I guess the reason they were short on superchargersin the P-51's was due to a shortage of tungsten. another good V-12 is the Alison 17.
http://www.retroair.co.uk/images/topendlt.jpg http://www.retroair.co.uk/images/merlinretro3.jpg http://www.retroair.co.uk/images/eng2.jpg
[ May 24, 2003, 11:09 PM: Message edited by: jlnorthrup122 ]

[Sleek-Jet]

Good luck in the boneyards, most of em have been picked over, and those that do have engine core's know what they've got.
Canada-air also made a version of the DC-6 with RR V-12's instead of Pratts, I can't remember if they were Merlins or Griffons.
If you want, PM me your address and I'll make you a copy of the article and mail it to you. There are only a few shops left that overhaul these engines, and the author talked to most of them. It's a pretty good read.
Here's one of the shops that still work on V-12's Mystery Aire (http://www.mysteryaire.com) Check out the parts for sale section. :D

[058]

I thought the R/R-Merlin was 1710 cu/in? [5.5" bore x 6" stroke]

[jlnorthrup122]

I thought the R/R-Merlin was 1710 cu/in? [5.5" bore x 6" stroke]
No that would be the Allison that Sleek jet and myself mention in this post as well

[jlnorthrup122]

Newly forged Alcoa pistons. Can be machined to custom specifications - Merlin or Allison - standard or oversized - stock or racing specs. $7,000.00 per set (includes rings)
Merlin -25 crankcase with main bearings $25,000.00
These are about what I was expecting boy those old boys that bought these at a surplus bulk price from the government after the war were pritty lucky. I wounder what the military has in its stockaid today? Have you ever herd of Aero Marine engines from the old days it was founded by gar wood and he took government surplus plane motors and build marine conversions for then. You could pritty much run a 1:2 ratio in your forward gear of the merlin and have a nice strong 6,000 rpm to the prop. I also have a crazy duel jet drive design that would prosper well with this kind of power. I know that there already is a dueljet out there from the japs originaly and then from I want to say Agressor I'm not sure. but my design is way differentfrom those designs lets just say ther are no shafts trough the impellers.

[Sleek-Jet]

I would have liked to have been in Kingmen when they were cutting up P-38's and B-17's with ferry time from the factory on them. eek!
Talk about a gold mine!!
I've heard the Gar Wood is still around, but he builds aircraft motors for the warbird collectors and a few hot rod Merlins for the Reno crowd.
[ May 27, 2003, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: Sleek-Jet ]

[Back Forty]

This thread made me think of the Batten V-12. Here are some cut and pastes that I found.
"I guess my slant on the whole thing is if a owner is
going to assemble a piston powered class of
hydroplane to compete on a national circuit as a
companion class to the tubine boats why not just go
for the glory and compete side-by-side against the
turbine U-boats. I think that piston powerplants exist
that could give the turbine boats a run for their money.
Plus, The costs involved in campaigning a piston class
unlimited on the national circuit must be similar to
running a tubine team.
In this months issue of Powerboat magazine, on page
100, resides an article on the Batten Max-12 engine.
Weighing in at only 550 lbs, this is a 1000
cubic inch magnesium block V-12 with 24-port
programmable fuel injection, 4 valves and three
sparkplugs per cylinder that in stock form produces
1700 horsepower. Run it on nitro-methane and
according to the article it produces 200 horsepower
per cylinder (thats 2400 H.P. total) and this is
still without the addition of turbo or supercharging."
And this
"StarAero: "The engine is a 1002 ci, liquid cooled, V-12, DOHC with four valves and two plugs per cylinder. For our purposes, it will be turbocharged, intercooled, and equipped with a boil off system. An air cooling system for the radiators will also be incorporated for long range flight and when the water boils off. This is absolutely necessary so that we don’t burn up when the fluid runs out. The engine will incorporate fully redundant FADEC, with electronic ignition and fuel injection.
The combination of advanced head and piston design, ceramic engine coatings, and high fuel atomization from the FADEC will reduce the specific fuel consumption to less than half of a supercharged Merlin and eliminate any need for power-robbing ADI.
All systems will be equipped with quick-disconnects and double-ended shutoff connections to enable engine changes in only a few hours. As with modern race cars, the "power package" will be treated as a unit and any work can be done either in the airframe or on the trailer. We plan to carry a full spare power package at all races."
AAFO.COM: How did you come up with this particular powerplant? I mean, is it new to racing—where did it originate?
StarAero: "The engine was originally designed by famed race engineer C. J. Batten for offshore boat racing. This is a demanding environment with 0 to +7 G transients and the need for 3 to 5 HP/lb. and 4 to 6 HP/ci.
For our use, the engine will be limited to 1.5 to 2.5 HP/lb. In this trim, our goal is to have no maintenance for 100 hours of race power level flying. We even want the spark plugs to last that long, all twenty-four of them! This is the minimum necessary to serve practice, heat races and finals—all at full race speed—for a ten race season. We need to break Unlimited racing out of the consumable engine era that we are in now."
I have their last catalog which shows pics and specs.

[Back Forty]

Here we are.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/pd7c69adf66277181e11a297f868ad918/fc0e34fa.jpg
there was also a V8 OHC model.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/p5ee2901eb3f706c34380de415d392f27/fc0e34f5.jpg

[jlnorthrup122]

I like that! let me atum let me atum. Where do you find these motors? and what kinda dollars are we talkin. I need a motor like this one for the cat I am designing rite now for construction hopefully to start construction next week. I do have one set of lines down on the drawing board but I feel it just looks to common. so I think I'm gona start a new set of lines something more agresive and unconventional to todays uniform lines. So rich Harley dudes have my boy Jessie James ***boaters have me.
Here are the lines that I have now that I feel are to common so Back to the drawing board I go.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/503/61024_cat_17-med.jpg
[ May 28, 2003, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: jlnorthrup122 ]

[Sleek-Jet]

What about the Falconer V-12? Saw one once in a kit Mustang, that was sweet. Looked and sounded like a 3/4 scale Merlin. Made somewhere around a 1,000 hp I think.
Falconer V-12 (http://www.falconerengines.com/v12hi_spec.htm)
http://www.falconerengines.com/images/hr_v12_3.jpg

[jlnorthrup122]

Drool Drool Drool. I am speechles Sleek I am mesmurised. this is cool I like shiney fast stuff.
http://www.falconerengines.com/images/hr_v12_3.jpg

[Sleek-Jet]

Check this out.
V-12 sounds (http://www.falconerengines.com/gtpnew.wav)

[jlnorthrup122]

thank You Sleek. I needed that. picture it your sitin on the lake or river and in a far off you hear that approchin you and then presto there goes a lightning flash of a blur of a twisted cat literally flying by. put me behind the wheel. wheres the nearest bank that I can rob so I can buy me one of these motors? hey where do I get prices on this motor?

[Back Forty]

Batten's company is out of business now. I visited him a couple of months ago out in Ok. I think he sold all of the V-12 stuff off. He had some residual stuff laying around but I believe everything else was gone. It seems someone involved in air plane racing might have been involved. He is a down to business type of person and may give the info to you if your interested. I can pass an email address. At 500lbs, I would say pound for pound you would be way the hell ahead of anything else available as far as a 12 goes.

[jlnorthrup122]

Hell yah I would love to find out more about aquiring one of these motors. Here is my junkbox address. jlnorthrup122@mchsi.com Thank You Back forty.

[Sleek-Jet]

Falconer web site has contact info. That picture is for one of their automotive V-12s. They list several marine versions, including super-charged!! www.falconerengines.com (http://www.falconerengines.com)
As for weight, the list the marine engines at 750 lbs. though I don't know if that fully dressed or not. Here's the link to the Marine Engines . (http://www.falconerengines.com/prod02.htm)

[jlnorthrup122]

http://www.falconerengines.com/images/mv12_rf1.jpg
Thats better than than than my big titied niegborlady and my hot blonde neighborlady put together. :D

[kp216]

Man, does this thread bring back some memories. Years ago, when I was running a four wheel drive truck on the pulling circuit, a few of the pulling tractors were running Allison's. Those things sounded awesome.
One of my buddies was also running a super charged Patton tank engine in his tractor :D

[Back Forty]

jlnorthrup122 you have mail.

[twistedpair]

Steve David, the Unlimited Hydro driver, hangs out in the Outdrive Tech forum from time to time. You might post over there, maybe one of the race teams has a line on them. I used to love hearing those things scream by! Now those were THUNDERBOATS!! :D :D