Lighthing vs. Ultra

[NetBilling]

Hi,
I know that Ultra and Lightning have close ties but what do you think of Lightning as far as construction, price and resale value vs. Ultra?
Thanks, Mitch

[Kilrtoy]

Buy the ultra, lighting, is a very cheap knock off......

[NetBilling]

Buy the ultra, lighting, is a very cheap knock off......
I have seen them both and they look very similiar. What makes it cheap?

[upsman105]

and cost less.
Only if you have the coupon out of the Sunday paper...

[Outnumbered]

Ultra.
Why: Resale, quality, service.

[Creator]

I'm in the composite fabrication industry so lets see if I can shed some light on this subject.
1. There are different grades of fiberglass as well as
different weights all with different costs. Not to
mention how many layers are used(thickness of the side
walls, bottom and deck)
2. There are many suppliers of resins, some really
cheap and some really expensive and yes price does
equate to quality here.
3. The coring(wood inserts) of the boat is really
important and once again pricing is all over the
spectrum here.
4. The gel coat is also extremely important. Some have
uv protectant some do not. The pigment that is
injected to give it color also ranges in price.
5. And lastly the guys who are laying it up are crucial!
You have to pay for experience, although not all boat
manufactures that have been around a while are good
at lay-up generally if the fabricator and gel coater
have years under their belt they cost more to employ
and keep happy.
Now I know I have not hit all the points here but these are some basic reason why a boat can cost more and look the same as another from a different manufacturer.
I don't know what either company is using, but it may explain the cost difference.

[bordsmnj]

Ultra is in no way tied to lightning. they sold off their interest/severed ties in that a while ago. do a search here on ultra and lightning as you'll find the post straight from the cats mouth. me, i'd go with the ultra. :)

[jbtrailerjim]

Lightning was at one time a dealer for Ultra (Ultra Custom Boats of San Fernando Valley). From what I have been told, John West sold them some of his older molds and broke ties with them. Lightning & Genesis boats are affilliated. I believe Genesis lays up the hulls for the two companys. The owner of Lightning Boats is Jason Van Beek and the owner of Genesis is Jerry Van Beek. They are brothers. Do a search on here of those two guy's names and if that does not change your mind about buying a Lightning, I don't know what will.
Ultra is a company that stands behind the products they sell. John West will go out of his way to make sure the customer is satisfied. As someone else mentioned, resale value should be an important thing when buying a new boat. You want to go with a well known respected builder. Good luck with your decision.
Jim<----Very happy Ultra owner :cool:

[THOR]

I almost got sick to my stomach to see what Genesis has done with the Ultra 247 mold. It looks like garbage. The rigging blows, gel is boring at best, seats and upholstery have double stitching instead of triple stitching. It is a no brainer in my opinion.

[NOTALENT]

same molds, but rigging is a complete different story...you get what you pay for.. :rollside:

[dicudmore]

Lightning was at one time a dealer for Ultra (Ultra Custom Boats of San Fernando Valley). From what I have been told, John West sold them some of his older molds and broke ties with them. Lightning & Genesis boats are affilliated. I believe Genesis lays up the hulls for the two companys. The owner of Lightning Boats is Jason Van Beek and the owner of Genesis is Jerry Van Beek. They are brothers. Do a search on here of those two guy's names and if that does not change your mind about buying a Lightning, I don't know what will.
Ultra is a company that stands behind the products they sell. John West will go out of his way to make sure the customer is satisfied. As someone else mentioned, resale value should be an important thing when buying a new boat. You want to go with a well known respected builder. Good luck with your decision.
Jim<----Very happy Ultra owner :cool:
what he said...
Lightning and Ultra are in no way affiliated.
I own a CHEETAH and would not buy a Lightning under any circumstances including FREE.
With that said, I would buy a boat from John West and Ultra in a heartbeat.
Dan <----happy Cheetah owner, future Ultra owner :D

[NetBilling]

Thank you very much everyone
Mitch

[dicudmore]

Thank you very much everyone
Mitch
there is a lot of nice boats out there...good luck to you :D

[andy01]

Buy the Ultra, Lightning used to be a low end line that Ultra carried. It was the same boat just with out all of the frills. When John broke ties with the dealer he gave them the name and right to build thier boats. John was unhappy with the level of service the dealer was offering the Ultra customers. Even if you saved a buck today buying a Lightning you spend more bucks later with resale and probably headaches from the builder. I would go see John West at Ultra, he will treat you right and in the end you will end up with a better boat and higher level of customer service. BTW John West of Ultra boats is Ultra28 on the boards here, you can send him a PM with any questions you may have also if you don't want to call.
Andy

[KineticoH20]

I almost got sick to my stomach to see what Genesis has done with the Ultra 247 mold. It looks like garbage. The rigging blows, gel is boring at best, seats and upholstery have double stitching instead of triple stitching. It is a no brainer in my opinion.
Wow i couldn't disagree with you more, and i own a Ultra, Genesis boats builds one of the best boats i have ever seen, and yes a did alot of research of all the local west coast builders, i have never seen rigging as good as what the Casalis brothers are doing. And if you know as much about boats as you say you do, you will know it's hard to bash the reputation that these guys have. The Gel work is top of the line. If you have a problem with Jerry then say so! , but they build a great boat at a great price. Oh and on resale i sold a 2005 25' Genesis and got top dollar for it. That being said i love my Ultra, but Ultra isn't the end-all that some of you make it. And yes i know it's popular to champion what you ride in but geees some of you go way over board, like frenchie did over shockwave.

[shippingguy]

Ultra is in no way tied to lightning. they sold off their interest/severed ties in that a while ago. do a search here on ultra and lightning as you'll find the post straight from the cats mouth. me, i'd go with the ultra. :)
I would have to agree 100%. There are no ties except that John sold them all of his old XS molds. There is no affiliation whatsoever and if it was me I would not buy a lightning!! They may look similar or have knocked off gel designs, but that is about as close as it gets to being an Ultra!

[shippingguy]

Wow i couldn't disagree with you more, and i own a Ultra, Genesis boats builds one of the best boats i have ever seen, and yes a did alot of research of all the local west coast builders, i have never seen rigging as good as what the Casalis brothers are doing. And if you know as much about boats as you say you do, you will know it's hard to bash the reputation that these guys have. The Gel work is top of the line. If you have a problem with Jerry then say so! , but they build a great boat at a great price. Oh and on resale i sold a 2005 25' Genesis and got top dollar for it. That being said i love my Ultra, but Ultra isn't the end-all that some of you make it. And yes i know it's popular to champion what you ride in but geees some of you go way over board, like frenchie did over shockwave.
I think people are just giving their opinions and people need to take them for what they are, but there is also a lot of truth in what people are saying. My neighbor at the river has a brand new 21 Genesis and I went over to help him work on a couple things and I was very unimpressed with the rigging. Regular philips head wood screws to hold down bimini mounts in the hull is not great rigging! From the outside it is a good looking boat, but when it comes down to it there are alot of things that are going to have problems due to the rigging specifically! Just curious though. Why did you sell a 2005 Genesis and then go and buy an Ultra???

[Wicked Game]

Ultra sells boats. I thought it was a type of condom.

[Creator]

Yeah I don't think they through bolt anything, it's all lagbolts.
Smthopr8tr may be fairly new to boats and not really know what to look for yet, give it time and the experience that comes with it. No offence Smth, I have no idea of your boat knowledge. :cool:

[Deano]

Genesis boats builds one of the best boats i have ever seen, and yes a did alot of research of all the local west coast builders, i have never seen rigging as good as what the Casalis brothers are doing. .
very bold statement..couldnt be further from the truth (in my opinion)

[Wicked Game]

Just curious though. Why did you sell a 2005 Genesis and then go and buy an Ultra???
Good question! Bottom line for me, it comes down to your preferrences. I personally don't like the Genesis graphics. But all boats are just wood and fiberglass with most having the same drive packages. It comes down to how well the rigging holds together while you own the boat and wheather the company is still around and selling boats when you want to sell yours.

[Deano]

But all boats are just wood and fiberglass with most having the same drive packages. It comes down to how well the rigging holds together while you own the boat and wheather the company is still around and selling boats when you want to sell yours.
very broad statement..couldnt be further from the truth (in my opinion)
ps. hows my post count :p

[Creator]

But all boats are just wood and fiberglass.
UM, not really, laying fiberglass is not an easy job! Do you know how to lay up a boat in a mold? Neither do alot of boat companies. Not to mention the quality of the glass, resin, and the wood. Some boats are put together with 4 layers of 12oz glass when quality boats use up to 8 layes and are vacuum bagged(opt). Nothing like leaning on the side of a boat and watching the whole side bend...Scary. Not harping, just trying to educate. :)