my boat

[cyclone]

I'm not one to cheerlead for anyone just for the sake of cheerleading but...since there seems to be an anti-aggressor thing among some members of the Just Jets board for whatever reason(s) i felt it only fair to throw out at least my own experience in dealing with the company.
I run Aggressor parts on my boat. I bought them directly from Dave @ Aggressor aka "Pops". He was extremely helpful in answering my questions prior to my purchasing his products. He even loaned me one of his 9-vane bowls just to test on my old Rogers boat because I was interested in his stuff but due to all the negative press I'd heard on this board and from one other pump builder who shall remain nameless, I didn't want to make a purchase without knowing what i was getting myself into.
I basically interrogated Dave in person regarding the bowl that blew apart at a race earlier this year and also about a couple other stories i'd heard about Aggressor parts breakage. I understood his point of view in not coming onto the board to internet battle with people regarding his company because it really is a no-win situation. I've seen it happen to several other pump builders and manufacturers who have been driven off this site before. He explained the problems and solutions to my satisfaction. I also sought the advice of Tom Papp, an Aggressor dealer and set-up man on my boat. After talking with both men, I felt confident in equipping my new boat with Aggressor parts.
I rigged my new boat, a 2005 Ultra 19-foot Shadow, with Aggressor's 5-degree low profile intake and pump with 9-vane bowl. the parts are bone-stock, right out of the box, save for a stainless steel impeller that had a small amount of sharpening performed to the leading edge of the blades. The impeller was sharpened to help "hook up" the some 900-foot pounds of torque and 1000 hp that my engine makes. I've put 20 hard hours of river use and 1 trip to the track on the hardware, which has been set up in a mild range with an Aggressor flat shoe that is above the keel line, while i get used to driving the boat.
Best pass at the track was 9.10 @117.5 mph and best speed at the river has been 124.6 mph.
In a nutshell, this boat runs quick and fast enough to kill me should a part fail. I'm religious about inspecting my stuff prior to using it and I've had not a single problem with any of the parts that are on my boat. At this point I'm confortable in the drivers seat and we are starting to adjust the hardware in the quest for better acceleration and more speed.
This isn't meant to sell more parts for Dave, but i feel that if people can post up about their negative opinion's of his parts then there isn't any reason why I can't say I'm completely satisfied with his stuff.
these pics were taken during the rigging process but you get the idea.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/45IMG_3981.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/45IMG_3919.JPG

[BUSBY]

Thanks for the commentary Mike ... I was on the phone with Dave as your post came up ... I'm sure he'll be posting here soon.
To second Mike's satisfactory results, I ... as well as numerous other racers who are current record holders (boats in speeds in excess of 130mph) ... guys like Ron Fuentes, Don Harris, Harold Bruce, Frank Nagore, etc. etc. etc. a lot of guys that most of you new racers do not know (because you guys weren't running us then) run and/or ran his products.
We all had great service through Dave and the dealers we worked with. Never had a problem ... and currently not having problems.
So not to cheerlead here too ... but to counter the negative posts ... my .02
Brian Busby

[Squirtin Thunder]

http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/45IMG_3919-med.JPG
This is the droop that I will be testing with as soon as I get over the engine deal !!!

[Cas]

Another one here. Each and every time I've called Aggresser, Dave or his wife has answered the phone....never a problem getting ahold of him. He's been honest and up front with all the questions I've asked him and his generosity has not been remotely equaled by anyone.
If you get a chance Dave, my invitation to you and your wife still stands for this coming weekend.

[Jake W2]

Mike no Aggressor diverter?Your Shadow turned out great and so did the performance.I bought a 9 vein bowl ,short droop,regular droop and imp from Aggressor.In my case only the droops had castings that I was not happy with (short had pits).They never broke and have new owners now.I have seen 3 diffrent type of castings (long droops) made by Aggressor.At one point wondered if it was luck of the draw with one you would get, or some were just older designs being sold while the newer ones were comming in.I have talked to Dave on the phone befor he was a nice guy with left me with, In a FEW months call me back and we will deal with the issue they had a fire and were taking care of that at the time.At that time I ordered regular or (long) style droop and with that droop my boat pulled to the right why I am not sure(YES IT WAS ON STRIGHT).My aggressor imp was great box stock and 9 vein bowl long droop (with a mostley stock 460 I could hop the boat out of the water to the diverter with two pumps of the gas.this is my exp good and bad.
Jake

[Liberator TJ1984]

Cyclone, can you 'esplain to me the advantages of a 9 vane bowl ????
Thanks

[cyclone]

Mike no Aggressor diverter?Your Shadow turned out great and so did the performance.I bought a 9 vein bowl ,short droop,regular droop and imp from Aggressor.In my case only the droops had castings that I was not happy with (short had pits).They never broke and have new owners now.I have seen 3 diffrent type of castings (long droops) made by Aggressor.At one point wondered if it was luck of the draw with one you would get, or some were just older designs being sold while the newer ones were comming in.I have talked to Dave on the phone befor he was a nice guy with left me with, In a FEW months call me back and we will deal with the issue they had a fire and were taking care of that at the time.At that time I ordered regular or (long) style droop and with that droop my boat pulled to the right why I am not sure(YES IT WAS ON STRIGHT).My aggressor imp was great box stock and 9 vein bowl long droop (with a mostley stock 460 I could hop the boat out of the water to the diverter with two pumps of the gas.this is my exp good and bad.
Jake
Since i didn't win the lottery before assembling this boat I used lots of parts from my old one. Gauges, fuel tanks, place diverter etc. No sense buying new stuff when the old stuff worked fine.

[cyclone]

Cyclone, can you 'esplain to me the advantages of a 9 vane bowl ????
Thanks
I'm not really an authority on it. The way its been explained to me, and someone else should chime in here, is that an 8-vein bowl creates some kind of disturbance in the water with a 4-blade impeller. I dont want to say harmonics because i'm really not sure. But supposedly a 9-vein bowl negates this disturbance by design. Best guy to ask would be Pops because i'm likely talking out of my ass here.
My main interested in the stuff was that 1st, the suction housing has two water outlets cast into it that make plumbing the motor and innercooler cooling systems easier. Second, the water outlets extend all the way to the middle of the suction housing on the inside of the transom so I dont have any extra hoses on the outside of the transom. I liked the aestetics of it more than anything. I also like the bowl because its longer than the old Berk stuff and seems to straighten out the flow of water with a less aggressive bend on the exit side.

[MudPumper]

I had a brand new Aggressor aluminum impeller come apart on me a couple years ago and Agressor gave me a full credit on the cost of that impeller toward a new MagBronze. Agressor ate the cost on the aluminum, and it later turns out we were able to blame the failure on a high speed cavitation. So it was no fault of Agressor or it's product and at the time we couldn't figure out why the impeller came apart. But they stood behind their product. I also run the Aggressor short droop with no problems.

[smash]

nice ride Cyclone but you should have bought a aluminum hull :rolleyes:

[Jet Hydro]

From what Duane told me many years ago, it`s that with so many turns of a 4 blade you have one turn or pass of the impeller that does nothing so if you interrupted that cycle with and uneven bowl like a 9 vane you wont have that problem and it will be pulling with every pass of the impeller. Not sure about it so dont quote me on it, it`s just what I was told. I let Dave do his home work so I can do mine, if you know what I mean ;)

[Ken F]

Well, I might as well chime in here too. I've got an agressor pump, bowl, impeller, intake, and divirter. Been running it two years now with only one problem. Seems like the bearings are really stiff or something. It won't turn past 5500. Maybe it will loosen up with a little more run-time. Other than this bearing problem, I'm really happy.
KenF

[American Turbine Man]

Mike correct me if I am wrong but, don't you have an American Turbine 17-4PH Stainless Steel impeller in your pump. ATM

[Jake W2]

Ken it sounds like it is time to put a air pump on it.Check pms also.
Jake

[BUSBY]

Mike correct me if I am wrong but, don't you have an American Turbine 17-4PH Stainless Steel impeller in your pump. ATM
umm ... is the cat out of the bag?

[Jake W2]

If I rember rite in the pics when they were rigging mikes boat it had one of thoes magbronze things on it.AA I thought he said it was because I asked about it.
Jake

[Cs19]

Mike correct me if I am wrong but, don't you have an American Turbine 17-4PH Stainless Steel impeller in your pump. ATM
ut oh

[Squirtin Thunder]

Du Da Dahhhhhhhhhhhhh !!!!
In my best Horror movie voice.
And the plot thickens.............................

[cyclone]

Mike correct me if I am wrong but, don't you have an American Turbine 17-4PH Stainless Steel impeller in your pump. ATM
yup. but the rest of the parts came from aggressor.

[bp]

yup. but the rest of the parts came from aggressor.
mike, your boat is really bitchin' and you should be very proud of what you've done with it. to be honest, 1000-1100 hp in a 400lb air entrapment tunnel -should- be able to at least run low 9s, but i digress.
if you go back in the time capsule and look, there's been plenty of aggressor champions on this board, in performance arguments between berk/aggressor/amt posers; gone on for years. but then it started getting personal, with attacks on mpd mainly because there were so many pleased mpd customers, so then the ugly was on. where did those attacks come from?
six years ago, we got an aggressor droop to try on the biz. the nozzle end was out of round and leaked; shrug shoulders, move on. another well known racer with a rocket daytona fed by a bottle had the same thing happen with a droop that he'd bought. did he stand behind it? who knows.. shrug shoulders, move on. new stuff, not used and worn out.
move on to 2005. brand new bowl, you know the story. this is not acceptable by any standard. i know roger, i've pitted next to him several times, and i know how much he was looking forward to this new boat from tom, which by the way, is a beautiful hull.
now, here you are, the media paparazzi guy. who in the world is going to give an off the shelf pos part to the media paparazzi guy?
it just -seems- as though you, as the media guy, are looking at this through a set of rose colored glasses. there IS, and has been, an issue over quality control regarding this manufacturer. there does not seem to be an issue with other manufacturers at this time. these kinds of things can come up in any industrial process, but they cannot be overlooked; they must be identified and corrected. unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any corrective actions identified, only name calling and testimonials.
and just to clarify, i am not bagging on the product that does make it through the process that meets spec. one of the mpd/dne crowd ran the entire season last year with an aggressor impeller, won a championship, and continues to run it. the problem is not with the parts that meet spec, it's letting parts out the door that do not.
if you cannot be self critical, or accept criticism, you absolutely do not belong anywhere near a racetrack.

[cyclone]

mike, your boat is really bitchin' and you should be very proud of what you've done with it. to be honest, 1000-1100 hp in a 400lb air entrapment tunnel -should- be able to at least run low 9s, but i digress.
Thanks for the backhanded compliment Bob.
if you go back in the time capsule and look, there's been plenty of aggressor champions on this board, in performance arguments between berk/aggressor/amt posers; gone on for years. but then it started getting personal, with attacks on mpd mainly because there were so many pleased mpd customers, so then the ugly was on. where did those attacks come from?
Why are you asking me? I've never attacked Jack. In fact Ive posted many times about the good work he did on my old boat. So now I post about the good experience I had with Aggressor but that's not ok with you?
six years ago, we got an aggressor droop to try on the biz. the nozzle end was out of round and leaked; shrug shoulders, move on. another well known racer with a rocket daytona fed by a bottle had the same thing happen with a droop that he'd bought. did he stand behind it? who knows.. shrug shoulders, move on. new stuff, not used and worn out.
move on to 2005. brand new bowl, you know the story. this is not acceptable by any standard. i know roger, i've pitted next to him several times, and i know how much he was looking forward to this new boat from tom, which by the way, is a beautiful hull.
What do you want me to say here? This post is merely about my boat. Why do you feel the need to talk about other peoples boats? If its that important to you then maybe you should contact Dave personally and tell him how you really feel.
now, here you are, the media paparazzi guy. who in the world is going to give an off the shelf pos part to the media paparazzi guy?
Thanks for the label. Does this mean i can give you one as well?
it just -seems- as though you, as the media guy, are looking at this through a set of rose colored glasses. there IS, and has been, an issue over quality control regarding this manufacturer. there does not seem to be an issue with other manufacturers at this time. these kinds of things can come up in any industrial process, but they cannot be overlooked; they must be identified and corrected. unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any corrective actions identified, only name calling and testimonials.
I really dont think you have any idea what color my glasses are.
and just to clarify, i am not bagging on the product that does make it through the process that meets spec. one of the mpd/dne crowd ran the entire season last year with an aggressor impeller, won a championship, and continues to run it. the problem is not with the parts that meet spec, it's letting parts out the door that do not.
If you want to make it your mission in life to let the world know about Aggressor's quality control then could you do the same for a few other companies that I've actually recieved bad parts from?
if you cannot be self critical, or accept criticism, you absolutely do not belong anywhere near a racetrack.
You've got to be kidding.

[bp]

mike, your boat is really bitchin' and you should be very proud of what you've done with it. to be honest, 1000-1100 hp in a 400lb air entrapment tunnel -should- be able to at least run low 9s, but i digress.
Thanks for the backhanded compliment Bob
it wasn't meant that way. you've just started to run it, and the potential, considering weight/hp is much quicker than low 9s. it would not be surprising to see low 8s to 8.50s by the time you've completely dialed it in.
you're obviously not hearing what i've been saying. yes, if there are other manufacturers that are putting bad parts across the counter, i would like to know about them.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

From what Duane told me many years ago, it`s that with so many turns of a 4 blade you have one turn or pass of the impeller that does nothing so if you interrupted that cycle with and uneven bowl like a 9 vane you wont have that problem and it will be pulling with every pass of the impeller. Not sure about it so dont quote me on it, it`s just what I was told. I let Dave do his home work so I can do mine, if you know what I mean ;)
I had a similar conversation with DuaneHTP last fall as we were conspiring on my engine & pump upgrades to my Taylor. It was not likely as in-depth a conversation as Jet Hydros as I am not an experienced racer and was just "siphoning off knowledge" (kind of like a leech haha). Hi told me that for some reason the odd-numbered vane bowls always seem to run better than even-number vaned bowls. I didn't pump for an explanation as I am not likely to replace the bowl on my "F" (at least not just yet) but I noted the info for future use and moved on. It would seem unlikely to be a harmonics thing in a pressurized fluid, but I've been around long enough to bet that it is in some manner. I'm sure there is some ammount of "pulsing" that occurs when the impeller blades pass the bowl vanes. Sure would take a LOT of equip to measure tho. Having an odd # of vanes & even # of blades insures that never do more than 1 vane & blade align at a time.