flat cam lobe

[mike37]

would this happen on break in to just one and all others be fine
and the inner part of the valve spring were broke on some of the peaces were laying in the top of the head
the valve spring itself was fine but the inside spring was broken and had damaged the valve seals on the ones that were broke could a peace of this spring have fallen down and got stuck between the lifter and cam

[Blown 472]

What oil did you break it with? add any EOS to the oil and on top of the cam? The redline assembly lube works good for cam break in too.

[sgdiv7]

The broken spring damper could have caused the spring to go into coil bind if it was cought in the spring for peroid of time at the hight of the lobe lift and wore through the hardness of the cam at the top of the lobe lift and slowly took the rest of the lobe with it. Is the push rod bent just a little? that would tell you if that is what happend if it was a stock push rod. The only other thing that could have happen is you let the engine idle during break in.

[mike37]

The broken spring damper could have caused the spring to go into coil bind if it was cought in the spring for peroid of time at the hight of the lobe lift and wore through the hardness of the cam at the top of the lobe lift and slowly took the rest of the lobe with it. Is the push rod bent just a little? that would tell you if that is what happend if it was a stock push rod. The only other thing that could have happen is you let the engine idle during break in.
would idle break the damper spring and only damag one lobe
and the damper sring on that valve was ok and the push rod was good
the two push rods next to it were bent
a total of six dmper srings were broke three on each head
but the only damag was on one side

[Fiat48]

Very common to have 1 lobe fail on break in and the rest fine.

[mike37]

would that have any thing to do with the damper springs breaking

[mike37]

this is what the parts look like some still inside the spring and some in the top of the head
http://***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=13477&stc=1

[HammerDown]

Very common to have 1 lobe fail on break in and the rest fine.
Yep, seen it first hand. :220v:
The second time around I only used the outter valve springs for break-in (few easy hrs on the river)...then added the inners.
Hey, it made me feel better. :cool:

[mike37]

I have never had this problem on a Ford
this is my kids motor we built it over Xmas and we thought we did every thing right
this thing ran since Xmas but got a strange sound to it two weeks ago
he needed his trany rebuilt so we pulled it in the garage puled the trany
and the next day we pulled the intake and valve covers found two bent push rods and could see the cam lobe was flat on one not one with bent push rod

[poncho-pwr]

Believe me this can happen on any motor. I would take a close look at those springs that broke and the outers as well. If you see any pronounced shiny spots on the tops of the one or more coils on the springs I would suspect coil bind. I have seen engines break inners only several times. The last one I saw do it had improperly machined inner steps on some of the retainers. Do you have any good close up pics of the valve springs? I would like to see them.

[mike37]

Believe me this can happen on any motor. I would take a close look at those springs that broke and the outers as well. If you see any pronounced shiny spots on the tops of the one or more coils on the springs I would suspect coil bind. I have seen engines break inners only several times. The last one I saw do it had improperly machined inner steps on some of the retainers. Do you have any good close up pics of the valve springs? I would like to see them.
the heads are at the shop getting fix they are comp springs
comp is giving us new springs and the shop I think is ding the work for free
they said it may have been and over rev failer but the setup is good to 6500 rpm so its never over revved don't know why they would replace them for free if we did something wrong but the shop is waiting for the new set

[poncho-pwr]

I am glad they are replacing them for free, but that also tells you that they know what happened and it was probably their fault somehow for not catching somethig or machining something wrong. Check it when they are done if you can, if you can't, find someone who can.

[mike37]

we still got pay for new cam and bearing and tung the crank
some of the cam grinding got in the journals and ever so slightly damage the crank so it going to be a complete redo on the motor
the guy doing the head is a top of the line shop he does heads for Mondelows

[502 JET]

I have never had this problem on a Ford
this is my kids motor we built it over Xmas and we thought we did every thing right
this thing ran since Xmas but got a strange sound to it two weeks ago
he needed his trany rebuilt so we pulled it in the garage puled the trany
and the next day we pulled the intake and valve covers found two bent push rods and could see the cam lobe was flat on one not one with bent push rod
Is it possible the kid is not telling the whole story of what happened?KID:(HONESTLY POP I WAS JUST GOING DOWN THE HIGHWAY AND IT STARTED MAKING A FUNNY SOUND)I for one can say I came home or got towed home with major engine damage more than once when I was a kid and told dad that I was just driving normal.LOL
A freind of mine took his dads truck four wheelin and sunk the truck and sucked water into the engine and destroyed it.He got the truck home cleaned it all up like nothing happened boy was his dad PO when he went to go to work the next day.

[mike37]

Is it possible the kid is not telling the whole story of what happened?KID:(HONESTLY POP I WAS JUST GOING DOWN THE HIGHWAY AND IT STARTED MAKING A FUNNY SOUND)I for one can say I came home or got towed home with major engine damage more than once when I was a kid and told dad that I was just driving normal.LOL
A freind of mine took his dads truck four wheelin and sunk the truck and sucked water into the engine and destroyed it.He got the truck home cleaned it all up like nothing happened boy was his dad PO when he went to go to work the next day.
well that is so very possible
but its his money now that he is spending

[502 JET]

well that is so very possible
but its his money now that he is spending
Make sure he helps too.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Yep, seen it first hand. :220v:
The second time around I only used the outter valve springs for break-in (few easy hrs on the river)...then added the inners.
Hey, it made me feel better. :cool:
I was advised to do this on my new Isky from HTP last spring,and it worked great. No break-in trouble, about 10 hrs added the inners, ran great all summer. I broke in on the outers and dampers (3 pc spring).

[SmokinLowriderSS]

well that is so very possible
but its his money now that he is spending
Sometimes the best lessons are ones that hit the wallet.
It IS not entirely unusual for this to just happen, but it does seem strange to me that it took so long. The flattened cam stories I have seen here have been MUCH quicker, some from bad cam or break-in, some from valve train problems (springs too short and binding usually (stock springs, steep cam) GM short-slot rockers binding on a tall cam) The bent rods are strange too, I wonder if he floated a valve (or more) and would have looked closely at those and the pistons to try to find any interference marks. The possibility of a broken damper putting you into a coil bind situation is very likely IMO.
If I had to guess the sequence, my money is here:
Repeated overrev, broke dampers, coil binds, damaged a lifter that way & bent pushrods, ate the cam on the hurt lifter.
Glad to hear someone else (shop) is defraying some of the cost.
Good luck on the re-try.

[mike37]

Sometimes the best lessons are ones that hit the wallet.
It IS not entirely unusual for this to just happen, but it does seem strange to me that it took so long. The flattened cam stories I have seen here have been MUCH quicker, some from bad cam or break-in, some from valve train problems (springs too short and binding usually (stock springs, steep cam) GM short-slot rockers binding on a tall cam) The bent rods are strange too, I wonder if he floated a valve (or more) and would have looked closely at those and the pistons to try to find any interference marks. The possibility of a broken damper putting you into a coil bind situation is very likely IMO.
If I had to guess the sequence, my money is here:
Repeated overrev, broke dampers, coil binds, damaged a lifter that way & bent push rods, ate the cam on the hurt lifter.
Glad to hear someone else (shop) is defraying some of the cost.
Good luck on the re-try.
this motor had all good parts the crank was balanced to 8000 rpm
this motor was set up to run at 6500 rpm or at least thats what we paid for
all machine work was don at a god shop and the heads my boy ported and polished the shop installed and checked the valves and spring
me and my son assembled the rest
this thing should have held up to any thing my kid would do
shit I had a 302 in my Willey's jeep that was build mostly stock and had stock rockers and that thing held up to repeated 6000 rpm revs

[mike37]

what the hell do the inner spring do any way I don't remember any of the springs having them way back when I was a kid maybe I'm just old and don't remember
and by the way the 302 we built last year is still going strong way to go Ford
thanks for all the comments and help guys

[cstraub]

Cam lobe, bent pushrods, broken springs. . .we got interference somewhere. I would suspect coil bind also. Sometimes the damper will hang on the second step of a retainer and this will shorten the distance greatly and can cause coil bind.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

what the hell do the inner spring do any way I don't remember any of the springs having them way back when I was a kid maybe I'm just old and don't remember
Depends on if they are springs or dampers.
Dampers are flat spring stock, and they are supposed to reduce bounce and harmonics I believe. They are a controll-spring more than a pressure spring.
My springs have an inner and an outer spring, and a damper between them. Helps get spring pressures up without using 1 massive hell-for-strong spring and controling pressure build between closed and opened fully.

[tbanzer]

I was told that sometimes the lifter bores are not machined at the proper angle and the lifters do not rotate or dont rotate enough on BBC. The lifters must rotate or they wipeout cam lobes quickly with heavier than stock spring presures. Im done useing flat tappet performance cams on BBC. I had cam troubles two motors in a row a while back. Hydraulic or solid roller only for me.

[HammerDown]

Im done useing flat tappet performance cams on BBC. I had cam troubles two motors in a row a while back. Hydraulic or solid roller only for me.
Either way it's a gamble...I've seen one failed roller wipe out a very high dollar Blower engine.