av gas mix

[Kindsvater Flat]

I was asked if anyone has a chart or recipe book for mixing avgas and 92 octane. I know you have to run it fat because of the lighter molicules.

[missilemud]

just buy race gas, avgas has no lead and you'll burn the valves for sure.

[Infomaniac]

I have been running my own home brew in my El Camino. It has 10.5:1 daily driver.
Mix 1 gallon of Methanol to 10 gallons of 93. It will give you 95.5 Octane. And yes it does mix with gasoline. Some will argue it does not.

[GofastRacer]

missilemud:
just buy race gas, avgas has no lead and you'll burn the valves for sure.Hate to disagree but avgas does have lead "LL100" means "Low Lead 100 octane" and I used it straight with no problems but it works better if you mix it with 92 octane because avgas lacks certain components for automotive engines!!, Unocal had an article about this a couple of years ago about using avgas on high compression motors!!..... eek!

[Kindsvater Flat]

I run 80% avgas to 92 octane. I set my timing to where I wanted it and kept adding til the knock went away. I also richened it up 10% to make up the property difference of the avgas.
I will mix avgas any day before by race gas. I can't see spending that kind of money. I pay 1.65 for avgas and 1.89 for 92 octane fuel.

[GofastRacer]

Kindsvater Flat:
I run 80% avgas to 92 octane. I set my timing to where I wanted it and kept adding til the knock went away. I also richened it up 10% to make up the property difference of the avgas.
I will mix avgas any day before by race gas. I can't see spending that kind of money. I pay 1.65 for avgas and 1.89 for 92 octane fuel.Right on, I mix it 50/50 and run 36 degrees with 12 to 1 comp with no probs at all!!.. :cool:

[Hud]

Kindsvater Flat, if you need race gas, I have a deal for you, email me, Hud.

[Infomaniac]

Avgas has shit loads of lead. It is low lead but in aviation terms as compared to the 145 octane aviation fuels of the past.
I do not run it because I know too much about it. People get away with it. but it is a cheap way around race gas. It works OK because of the octane rating, but performance suffers.
It has very poor vapor pressure. It is designed to not vaporize well because of reduced atmospheric pressure at altitude. This is why you must richen it up. Some of the airplanes have a gravity feed fuel system. No fuel pump. It would be easy to vapor lock the system if the fuel vaporized easily. Also the unburnt fuel helps cool the air cooled engines.

[roco racing]

crap performance in our 11:1 motor, we mix it with 92 also.no bueno at higher rpms,we switch to race gas and problem is gone. Things ive been told about av gas: try it with some 2 stroke oil or marvel mystery oil(ounce per gallon) and straight av.Guy at the airport in corona,ca who sells me av for my 2-strokes says that the octane on the ground can be upwards of 120 octane, as you go up in elevation you lose octane, so at 30,000 feet its 100 or so,hard to believe i know. Also it has lots of other perservatives and other things in it that are unneccassary for our application.Ive ran it in some highly modified tempermental 2 strokes and had great results, never lost a motor.Its tough call, who wants to pay 5 bucks a gallon to cruise the river?.Im leaning towards a pump gas motor more and more everyday.from my experience,i think there are different blends of av, the aviation in laughlin/bullhead is low lead av(i like it)av in blythe sucks,av in corona,ca a little dry its ok.av in parker and havasu i like too i think its low lead also.Im no expert, just thought id jump in since weve ran it off and on.good luck

[Infomaniac]

roco racing:
Guy at the airport in corona,ca who sells me av for my 2-strokes says that the octane on the ground can be upwards of 120 octane, as you go up in elevation you lose octane, so at 30,000 feet its 100 or so,hard to believe i know. The guy is correct. 100LL is actually 100/130LL. All avgas has 2 octane ratings, 100 is the lean mixture rating and 130 is the rich mixture rating. Airplanes take off in full rich position for better cooling mainly because the throttle is wide open. At altitude the mixture is leaned for best fuel consumption and to make up for reduced air density.
DO NOT GET ME WRONG lots of people run avgas with no problems. I personally forked over for race gas rather than run 100LL

[powerplay230]

All Buying either race gas or AV gas just consider yourself lucky. This area of Florida when they starting smog sniffing on cars they about outlawed it all for street vehicles or boats. Have found 100 octane unleaded for $3.75 a gallon.. Few counties south they will still sell leaded 110 or unleaded 100 to pump right in your boat!!

[Kindsvater Flat]

Hud:
Kindsvater Flat, if you need race gas, I have a deal for you, email me, Hud.I have an in also but only buy it once in awhile as a treat. I get it for about 200/55gal. But majority of the time I run avgas.
By the way here is a cool link
octane (http://www.team.net/sol/tech/octane_b.html)

[roco racing]

the blue unleaded 76-100 octane is right out of the pump here in cali.it is 3.80 or something/gallon. not too bad. it ran way better than the av, but the red 110-76 is even better at 5.50/gallon. its ridiculous, ya fill up 20 gallons. thats over 100 bucks for fuel...anyone know a horsepower difference in say 9.5:1(pump) to 11.5:1(high octane) motor? just curious what kinda power we are talking for expensive fuels.

[powerplay230]

Off the top of my little head I would have to imagine that 2 compression points on a BB would be a 100hp. I run the red leaded 76/110 octane when I can get it in my '71 Chevelle and the difference is night and day- can turn up timing a bit, it doesn't foul plugs, even smells better! Just so hard to get in this county. Down in Sarasota have a buddy that fills his 38' Top Gun with twin Zeulls (sp?) with it, now that has to hurt when you fork out a grand to cruise for an afternoon!

[Infomaniac]

powerplay230:
All Buying either race gas or AV gas just consider yourself lucky. This area of Florida when they starting smog sniffing on cars they about outlawed it all for street vehicles or boats. Have found 100 octane unleaded for $3.75 a gallon.. Few counties south they will still sell leaded 110 or unleaded 100 to pump right in your boat!!Depending on your application (worth the hassle)if you convert to Methanol, they can sniff all they want. Methanol puts out NONE of the emissions they test for. More HP to boot. You can probably get a tax credit for doing it. Maybe even for M-85 or E-85.
If they start sniffing here, I will convert the El-camino over to 100% Methanol. It will idle like a fueler and burn their eyes while they sniff away.
Methanol here is $71.00 per 55 gal drum.
[ December 11, 2002, 05:21 AM: Message edited by: Infomaniac ]

[Unchained]

Ron, Settle something once and for all.
A lot of people think that race gas gives them more performance. I say higher octane gas does not give more performance, it just resists detonation better and therefore allows you to run more ignition timing advance.
Mark

[Blown 472]

Infomaniac:
powerplay230:
All Buying either race gas or AV gas just consider yourself lucky. This area of Florida when they starting smog sniffing on cars they about outlawed it all for street vehicles or boats. Have found 100 octane unleaded for $3.75 a gallon.. Few counties south they will still sell leaded 110 or unleaded 100 to pump right in your boat!!Depending on your application (worth the hassle)if you convert to Methanol, they can sniff all they want. Methanol puts out NONE of the emissions they test for. More HP to boot. You can probably get a tax credit for doing it. Maybe even for M-85 or E-85.
If they start sniffing here, I will convert the El-camino over to 100% Methanol. It will idle like a fueler and burn their eyes while they sniff away.
Methanol here is $71.00 per 55 gal drum.If you do so, are you going to run a carb with alky??? I am thinking about doing this for a truck I am building and would like to tip the can on it. Any suggestions for the alky set up?

[missilemud]

GofastRacer:
missilemud:
just buy race gas, avgas has no lead and you'll burn the valves for sure.Hate to disagree but avgas does have lead "LL100" means "Low Lead 100 octane" and I used it straight with no problems but it works better if you mix it with 92 octane because avgas lacks certain components for automotive engines!!, Unocal had an article about this a couple of years ago about using avgas on high compression motors!!..... eek! it doesn't work and i can tell you for a fact, avgas is meant to burned up above 3000 feet, as af far as low lead goes , doesn't that mean low lead?excuse me but your wrong, buy a drum of the purple stuff and stop being cheap. jawdrop

[GofastRacer]

missilemud:
GofastRacer:
missilemud:
just buy race gas, avgas has no lead and you'll burn the valves for sure.Hate to disagree but avgas does have lead "LL100" means "Low Lead 100 octane" and I used it straight with no problems but it works better if you mix it with 92 octane because avgas lacks certain components for automotive engines!!, Unocal had an article about this a couple of years ago about using avgas on high compression motors!!..... eek! it doesn't work and i can tell you for a fact, avgas is meant to burned up above 3000 feet, as af far as low lead goes , doesn't that mean low lead?excuse me but your wrong, buy a drum of the purple stuff and stop being cheap. jawdrop Well, I been using avgas for over 15 yrs with no problems!!..Yes, there is a difference between race gas and on a max effort motor, I would use race gas!!..When I ran brackets, I used both and yes, it did run better with the race gas, the time slips showed it!!..But on a non max effort motor running up and down the river, I can't justify paying all that money for gas especially when you can't even tell the difference!!..
BTW, take a look at my boat, I ain't F****N cheap!!!.....

[missilemud]

argue not arguring that your cheap,just makes sense to use what works,i bein racing for 20 years.

[Party Cat]

Here's some interesting reading on Fuels and octane.
http://www.leesracing.com/articles.html

[Infomaniac]

Unchained:
Ron, Settle something once and for all.
A lot of people think that race gas gives them more performance. I say higher octane gas does not give more performance, it just resists detonation better and therefore allows you to run more ignition timing advance.
MarkMark,
You are correct. Race fuel does nothing for an engine unless the engine needs the additional octane.(for more timing, compression, boost etc.) The change in tune up gives the additional performance. The fuel just allows it.
I believe race gas will give more performance if someone is running avgas because pump gas does not have enough octane.
Ron
[ December 11, 2002, 09:03 AM: Message edited by: Infomaniac ]

[Infomaniac]

.[/qb][/QUOTE]If you do so, are you going to run a carb with alky??? I am thinking about doing this for a truck I am building and would like to tip the can on it. Any suggestions for the alky set up?[/QB][/QUOTE]
Alky carb, better fuel pump and bigger fuel line from the tank. Everything else the same. Compression is already 10.5:1
You can build yourself a 12-15:1 compression street machine, run methanol and the government will love you for it.
You can even build a much smaller engine with hi perf parts for a bit better fuel economy
[ December 11, 2002, 09:09 AM: Message edited by: Infomaniac ]

[Infomaniac]

Party Cat:
Here's some interesting reading on Fuels and octane.
http://www.leesracing.com/articles.htmlThat is good info. I guess I am not full of shit after all. wink

[Blown 472]

What about a small percent of nitro thru a alky carb??

[Liberator TJ1984]

I've been running Av - Gas at a 75 / 25 mix w/92 for 2 yrs. now 8-3/4:1 @ 6# boost comes out to approx. 12:1 comp. This is on a very "conservative tune up" where most of the time just cruising around If I know I am going to be standing in it alot I go to Av 50/50 Race Fuel,yes being cheap but also safe ...Av gas is 1.90gal...Race is $2.75gal. can't see the reason to run straight race for my application... :confused:

[Infomaniac]

Blown 472:
What about a small percent of nitro thru a alky carb??It can be done. You will probably run out of jetting before you could get decent percent of nitro mixed in. You have to jet way up when you start mixing in the juice.
A nitro burning street machine. YEA BABY YEA
[ December 11, 2002, 10:10 AM: Message edited by: Infomaniac ]

[Blown 472]

I was reading the holley book and they say to take the back jets out, after the booster and metering block work is done, maybe I might have to do that to the front side.

[Fired Up]

I'm buying VP race fuel (103 octane)direct out of the pump at a local independent station. Its a large commercial gas station that serves alot of trucks. I'm paying 5.25 a gallon. Is there a cheaper source without making my own?

[Infomaniac]

Buy it by the 55 gal drum.

[Fired Up]

Okay, so I buy it by the 55 gal drum. At approximately 7 lbs per gallon there's 350 plus pounds of volatile liquid fuel I'm trying to move. It sits for longer than I can use it fast enough. It starts to go bad right? Besides, where do you store a 55 gal bomb in your house. I'm afraid of the guys who are storing these things in their garage 15 feet from their water heater............poof! I've never priced it at PAW, but I've seen it sold there. Is it cheaper than 5.25/Gallon?

[Infomaniac]

I keep 55 gal of methanol in my garage at all times.(during boating season). Buy a drum dolley from Grainger and it rolls around effortlessly. Keep the drum sealed and it will last until you use it up.
As far as bomb goes. Keep it away from the fertilizer ! LOL

[DUCKY]

missilemud:
GofastRacer:
missilemud:
just buy race gas, avgas has no lead and you'll burn the valves for sure.Hate to disagree but avgas does have lead "LL100" means "Low Lead 100 octane" and I used it straight with no problems but it works better if you mix it with 92 octane because avgas lacks certain components for automotive engines!!, Unocal had an article about this a couple of years ago about using avgas on high compression motors!!..... eek! it doesn't work and i can tell you for a fact, avgas is meant to burned up above 3000 feet, as af far as low lead goes , doesn't that mean low lead?excuse me but your wrong, buy a drum of the purple stuff and stop being cheap. jawdrop I don't want to start a fight here, but I don't think anyone can argue with Info about aircraft fuels. If I remember the article from ***boat magazine on Info's Cougar, he is an aircraft mechanic, and everything he has said on this thread is 100% true.

[Infomaniac]

Thanks Ducky You are my new best friend :)
Actually I do not think anyone will argue about which fuel is best. I understand why some of them will run avgas around on the lake. It is just a bandiad for high compression. I personally forked out for race gas even in my old blown sterndrive boat.

[Kindsvater Flat]

Infomaniac:
Thanks Ducky You are my new best friend :)
Actually I do not think anyone will argue about which fuel is best. I understand why some of them will run avgas around on the lake. It is just a bandiad for high compression. I personally forked out for race gas even in my old blown sterndrive boat.I agree it is a band-aid, but on the other hand I use mine strictly for skiing and its nothing to go through 75 gallons a day. And if you count saturday and sunday that gets pretty damn expensive using race fuel. When the time comes and it blows up then I will lower the compression and just use super unleaded.

[Mrs. Duck]

Kindsvater Flat:
Infomaniac:
Thanks Ducky You are my new best friend :)
Actually I do not think anyone will argue about which fuel is best. I understand why some of them will run avgas around on the lake. It is just a bandiad for high compression. I personally forked out for race gas even in my old blown sterndrive boat.I agree it is a band-aid, but on the other hand I use mine strictly for skiing and its nothing to go through 75 gallons a day. And if you count saturday and sunday that gets pretty damn expensive using race fuel. When the time comes and it blows up then I will lower the compression and just use super unleaded.This is really Ducky, I'm having login trouble.
Thanks for the kind words, Info. I further agree that it's a band-aid, but an effective one for lake use of a high compression motor. Would I use it at the track when I am looking for every last bit of go? No way but at the lake when 200-400 (Or so...) rpm isn't so important, I would save the extra $3 per gallon and go have some fun!!!

[CrazyHippy]

How about in 2 stroke Whackers?
110LL or 100 race gas?
Any diff. in the oil mix ratio?
Just for discussion, as my whacker runs just fine on 89.
BJH

[blowngas]

just a reply about alcohol (methanol)----it will work in a carb---but you will have to have it set up for alky---mechanical fuel injection works ok for lake boats or race boats---down side is it takes twice as much alcohol (x2) to get the correct air/fuel ratio----economics?---if alky goes for $1.50 gal and it takes twice as much then that computes to an adjusted $3.00 gal---it is also corrosive on aluminum---I have tried and tried to mix it with gasoline and have had it separate out every time---maybe some chemist out there can tell us if there is a component that will combine with both that will allow mixing

[THUNDER]

I'VE USED AV-GAS FOR YEARS IN BLOWER MOTORS WITH NO TROUBLE .IT FOR SURE HAS TONS OF LEAD ,MUCH MORE THAN THE OLD SUNOCO 260 STREET GAS ,
IT WORKS VERY WELL ON HUMID DAYS WHEN THERES NOT MUCH OX. IN THE AIR BECAUSE IT MADE TO RUN HIGH ITS OXYGENATED SO IT WORKS WELL AND AT GROUND LEVEL ITS EASY 105 OCTANE argue

[Whipple Charged]

I run a mix of 60/40 91 octane/low lead av gas in my supercharged engines and recommend it to most customers of ours. I've run many different test on the dyno with air fuel meters, mass air flow sensors, cylinder pressure transducers, from 600hp to 1300hp and have seen very little, if any power change from av gas to say 104 unleaded race gas, vs. 91 octane. The only thing I see is that the avgas leans up the air fuel approx. .15 - .25 of an air fuel, very little and not enough to worry about. The advantage of better gas is to run more compression (or boost) and timing and thats where the power gain is achieved. So when your fighting detonation, the higher octane will certainly be key to power and reliability.
I would never run straghit av gas for long periods because it lacks the lubricants needed to coat fuel pumps, rings, etc.
One of the best "octane boosters" is tolulene, it's near 120 octane, you can buy this from paint supply places. We use it to clean parts and buy it by the 55 gallon drum. Methanol works well, but has a very large air fuel ratio difference from gas, near 5:1 for methanol for power and 12:1 for gas, so when you mix this, your just using it to run a cooler temp basicly, somewhat like water injection and typically you will lose power because you are running at the wrong air fuel and the combustion temp is too low. Ethanol would work slightly better, but not much.
Thanks,
Dustin

[78DiMarco]

Do be careful keeping fuels in the garage. I once had a roommate that raced go-carts. He had a 55 gal drum of fuel that he left in the garage after he move out of a rental house. I had moved about a year earlier. When the new tenant moved in he used it to clean the floor of the garage. Guess what happened? boom eek! What a dumb POS he was and the law suites followed......
[ December 27, 2002, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: 78DiMarco ]

[78Eliminator]

Is methanol one of the fuels that will destroy nitrophyl floats in a carberator?

[Hotcrusader76]

Yes...
Brass is a must.

[78Eliminator]

Hotcrusader76:
Yes...
Brass is a must. That's what I thought. Better stick with race fuel. Just a couple more months and it warms up. I better get my ass in gear an rebuild my jet pump.....

[bkegan]

Avgas is NOT OXYGENATED!
"Oxygenated" fuel contains Methanol, and I can assure you that avgas contains NO methanol.
For more info, go to www.chevron.com (http://www.chevron.com) They have a complete listing of the ASTM spec for aviation fuels.
As far as being "designed" to burn above 3000ft...It's just not so! Airplanes have to be able to run at ALL altidudes from below sea level to 14,000ft in a normally aspirated aircraft.
The manifold pressure in a turbo charged aircraft that runs on 100LL NEVER sees any altitude above sea level.
I run 100LL in my Piper Warrior AND my blown small block flatty with NO problems whatsoever.
By the way the flat runs 650 dyno hp with 355 ci and 15 psi boost.
If you like spending BIG$$ for racing fuel.. be my guest, but a properly tuned engine running avgas will perform just as well. If in doubt, check out VP racing's spec on their fuels, none of them except "Air Race Blue" has higher octane than avgas's 130 rich rating.
Just my $.02

[Fiat48]

And then there was the time I had this "empty" methanol drum I needed to get rid of. The public dump wouldn't take it unless the top was cut off of it. I didn't like the idea of cutting the top off, but had no choice. After flushing continuously with water/soap, etc, I started to cut the top off of it. But I didn't use a torch. I used a saw blade. Straddling the drum, I made it about 1/2 way around when the first roar came and me and the drum traveled out the garage and into the driveway quite quickly. With my hair and eyebrows singed, I watched the pretty blue flame till it went out. I continued to cut and it went off again!
Thankfully, the vendors here are back to taking deposits on drums. A funny true story with a warning!

[beached 1]

CrazyHippy:
How about in 2 stroke Whackers?
110LL or 100 race gas?
Any diff. in the oil mix ratio?
Just for discussion, as my whacker runs just fine on 89.
BJH No. That part of the mixtue is only for lubrication. But the fuel/ air mixture does change with different fuels. It has been my exp in racing PWCs for a number of years, that Av Gas runs leaner than most race fuels. It's been a while for me so maybe things have changed since, but here are the following race fuels that I have used starting from the leanest (meaning I had to turn my mixture pilot screws out the most to keep from sticking a ring) to the fattest.
1. Av gas
2. Klotz HiTrate (a concentrate you mix to pump gas that gives you 105 leaded)
3. 76
4. Straight Klotz
5. VP
6. Sunoco
I ran the fastest with the fatter fuels like VP and Sunoco. I am not a fuel expert. This is just been my exp with the above mentioned. This may be different for 4 strokes. I don't know much about those, but trust me if you have a smoker.
This brings me to a ? for the 4 stroke motor heads. Does cam timing and more specifically overlap play any roll in how much octane is needed? In other words, if you have a good cam grind that is getting all of the burnt gasses out of the hole should prevent detonation?
It always cracked me up with PWCs to see someone running race gas in a motor with hi comp and stock ports. If he'd just port that thing (with the money he'd be saving) and run 92, he be faster.

[Blown 472]

Rock and Roll engineering is building a 10 to 1 comp motor that runs on 87 octane, he specs his cams so that might have some thing to do with it.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

One of the best "octane boosters" is tolulene, it's near 120 octane, you can buy this from paint supply places. We use it to clean parts and buy it by the 55 gallon drum. Methanol works well, but has a very large air fuel ratio difference from gas, near 5:1 for methanol for power and 12:1 for gas, so when you mix this, your just using it to run a cooler temp basicly, somewhat like water injection and typically you will lose power because you are running at the wrong air fuel and the combustion temp is too low. Ethanol would work slightly better, but not much.
Thanks,
Dustin [/QB][/QUOTE]
So what your saying I can run this in my motor and it will not harm it :confused: I heard that you can run denatured alcohol and that will raise octane :confused: I am not much of an expert but I am curious. i have heard good and bad about av gas :confused: i think I will keep my comp down and run pump gas with a little vp wink I cant see myself paying $5.00 for a gallon of gas and then filling 26 gallons up :mad: So I have an idea :) lets take a poll of wht to run and then "us confused :confused: " people can see what we want to do.
396-jus my little 2 pennies wink

[skeepwerkzaz]

You guys are funny. I am still working with the "AV Gas lacks internal engine lubricant properties" thing, and the "Race engines cost alot, so don't skimp on fuel" Obviously many of you have not spent much time around airplanes. There are MANY 500 plus cubic inch twin turbo charged 350 horsepower $50,000 airplane engines flying that have properly lubricated fuel pumps and piston rings. These engines cost more to overhaul that a luxury car costs to buy, not to mention their 2000 hour lifespan at rated power. I would think that if a better fuel was available, it would be used. I can find out exactly where a certain batch of AV gas came from, from its well to the pump there is a record, what about SUNOCO race fuel? When I am tooling along five miles above the earth at 350 mile per hour with my wife and kids, turning 700 horsepower worth of engines, I'll have AV gas in my tanks. Oh yeah, When I am cruising my low flying missile in parker with 600 horses, a couple of strippers and a big smile, I will also be running Av gas. And the savings over 3 plus dollar "Race Gas" will have provided me wiith a weekends worth of silvers.

[Sleek-Jet]

350 mph and 25000 feet? Must be an aerostar driver.
396 - Go check out www.Nitrocentral.com (http://www.Nitrocentral.com) they have a link to a Nitro/Alky page that explains a bunch of this fun stuff.
[ February 08, 2003, 01:31 PM: Message edited by: Sleek-Jet ]

[beached 1]

skeepwerkzaz:
I would think that if a better fuel was available, it would be used. Then why don't you feel the same way about your boat?
Or are you saying that Av Gas is better for all aplications?

[schiada96]

Av gas is still low lead. Something like 2 grams per gallon race gas 8 grams, this is the stuff that cools ex valves and is a lubricant right? Thats not to say I don't run av gas I just run better gas when I can.

[gnarley]

I just caught this & had to comment on it.
missilemud:
it doesn't work and i can tell you for a fact, avgas is meant to burned up above 3000 feet misslemud, can you explain what altitude crop dusters fly at? If avgas is meant to be used over 3000 ft what do the crop dusters use? I think they use avgas & they don’t dust to many crops over 3000 feet in the west that I know of & I don’t think they dust many out in New Jersey either.

[Sleek-Jet]

gnarley:
I just caught this & had to comment on it.
missilemud:
it doesn't work and i can tell you for a fact, avgas is meant to burned up above 3000 feet misslemud, can you explain what altitude crop dusters fly at? If avgas is meant to be used over 3000 ft what do the crop dusters use? I think they use avgas & they don’t dust to many crops over 3000 feet in the west that I know of & I don’t think they dust many out in New Jersey either. Gnarley, most crop dusters have gone to tubine power which means that they burn kerosene.
Those that still run radials (the big round engines) burn either 80 octane aviation fuel (if the can find it) of mogas (unleaded regular automotive fuel) and then cut it with 100LL for the lead.
As for 100LL only designed for flight above 3000 feet, I have never heard of that (30,000 feet mabye). Also, 100LL is a low lead fuel compared to the old 100/130 (green gas). I think it stills has several times the amount of lead that was allowed in automobile gas.
Finally, the lead is primarily added to raise the octane rating and prevent detonation, it's lubricating properties are secondary.
[ February 10, 2003, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: Sleek-Jet ]

[skeepwerkzaz]

The 3000 ft thing is a myth. Airplane engines are all rated in sea level horsepower. They have to be able to make the most power for take off and climb out, when the airspeed is low and the angle of attack is high. And yeah, I think that for any lake usage with anything less than a 12.5:1 comp engine AV gas is the superior fuel.

[DEEZ NUTTS]

After reading the Nitrocentral site, I am going to look into mixing Methanol.
Info, looks like you figure a 2.5 octane increase. I believe they stated more, but going with the more conservative rate of 2.5 would you mix at 20% Meth to pumpgas?
What problems would I create by mixing to rich?
My biggest problem is 87 octane marina gas on Powell. I start with 80/20 avgas to 91 oct, but end up with around 50/50 87 to avgas, but it is a major pain in the ass to haul cans all over the lake.
I am not shure what I need octane wise to keep safe. 509ci, 8-71, 8.4comp., superchiller at 5-6lbs boost. Thinking of 8-9lbs for this summer.
Any wisdom would be appreciated.
-Dustin
[ February 10, 2003, 10:31 PM: Message edited by: DEEZ NUTTS ]

[LVjetboy]

Ok, now here's an new idea. Since dock gas sucks and most of us actually run on dock gas, why not build your engine to run on dock gas?
That way you don't have to worry about your garage blowing up, prostate cancer, confusing and mysterious mixture equations, or spending your entire paycheck on a fill-up? Or "honey, we're out of gas again so sorry, we paddle back?"
Only draw-back is you can't brag about, "I only run av-gas as any smart person would do." But that seems a small sacrifice to me.
jer
[ February 11, 2003, 02:20 AM: Message edited by: LVjetboy ]

[Infomaniac]

DEEZ NUTTS:
After reading the Nitrocentral site, I am going to look into mixing Methanol.
Info, looks like you figure a 2.5 octane increase. I believe they stated more, but going with the more conservative rate of 2.5 would you mix at 20% Meth to pumpgas?
What problems would I create by mixing to rich?
My biggest problem is 87 octane marina gas on Powell. I start with 80/20 avgas to 91 oct, but end up with around 50/50 87 to avgas, but it is a major pain in the ass to haul cans all over the lake.
I am not shure what I need octane wise to keep safe. 509ci, 8-71, 8.4comp., superchiller at 5-6lbs boost. Thinking of 8-9lbs for this summer.
Any wisdom would be appreciated.
-Dustin The more you mix the leaner it gets. You have to jet up.
The higher the percentage, the more methanol related issues you have.

[gnarley]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sleek-Jet:
Gnarley, most crop dusters have gone to tubine power which means that they burn kerosene.

Sleek-Jet, I haven't seen any of the turbine powered dusters out here, maybe its a regional thing. I've been up & down our central valley for many years & have yet to see one. The point I was trying to make was avgas has been around as long as radial powered crop dusters & they were never intended too fly at high altitude even though they might, they do 99% of their flying at ground level

[kojac]

When I bought my jetboat in 1982 the boat came with a 460 cubic in big block chevy and the engine ran 12-1 compression. closed chambered heads. The guy I bought it from used VP gas and sold the boat mainly because he could not afford the race gas. I didn't like the of paying the high price of gas either but a friend of mine who worked at a small airport told me he used 100+ low lead gas in his 32 hot rod with a 13-1 compression chrysler hemi and it was 1/2 the price of VP gas. I used the avgas for 8 years with no detonation problems. Set the timing at 39 degrees and ran the boat hard every weekend. When I decided to take the motor apart to check bearings and rings I found pistons, cylinder walls and rings and bearing in good shape. I just didn't know any better. I used nitrous 250hp plate on many occasions with avgas and had no adverse experiences. Hope this helps.
Kojac wink

[moonlighter]

I`m a new member please don`t think I`m coming in here attempting to tell you guys anything have been reading this AV. gas debate that`s been going on for some time and didn`t see info. that I have discussed so I decided not to put off becoming a member and add what I`ve learned with you. I`ve been using a product called MAX RACE for 11 years and selling it for 10 I feel it`s a very cost-effective solution to most of the fuel problems encountered today. Don`t misunderstand this is NOT 104 the web site is www.pricechemical.com (http://www.pricechemical.com) this might be of assistance and I`ll be happy to answer any questions I can, use it in a 468 12-1 and a blown 555 9-1 but if you study info 1 quart of Max-Race with 10 gal.of prem.unleaded is good to 13-1after that some otherprocedures are recomended but I have to believe majority of motors out here recreational in nature are going to be under the 13-1 variety. Once again just my experience and want to say hello to everyone and hopr to participate in your forums in the future nice to think of other things than the world today.

[Kindsvater Flat]

gnarley:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sleek-Jet:
Gnarley, most crop dusters have gone to tubine power which means that they burn kerosene.

Sleek-Jet, I haven't seen any of the turbine powered dusters out here, maybe its a regional thing. I've been up & down our central valley for many years & have yet to see one. The point I was trying to make was avgas has been around as long as radial powered crop dusters & they were never intended too fly at high altitude even though they might, they do 99% of their flying at ground level Here is one that was spraying at the house tonight. Duster (http://www.dragboatrace.com/movies/duster.mpg)

[bkegan]

Sounds like a fellow aviator!! BRAVO

[MANIC MECHANIC]

Is AVGAS that stuff I used to siphon out of air planes? It didnt do s***t for my '72 Vega! wink Seriously though, according to an article in ***boat sometime back, AVGAS is formulated to burn extremely cool, lacking the quik hot burn neccessary for maximum performance. they suggest mixing it with pump fuel to raise the octane for higher compression or blown recreational boat engines. Just MY .02! :D Tim

[skeepwerkzaz]

FYI,
The turbine engine ag-wagons come in a few different varieties. One is called the "Turbo Thrush" (Turbo as in turbo-prop) and the new "AG-CAT." They both come from the factory with a Pratt and Whitney PT6 free turbine turboprop, optional of course is the fixed turbine Garrett (now Honeywell) TPE-331-10. Both of these engines are rated between 600-800 SHP.
Gee-Wiz info,
Clay

[skeepwerkzaz]

Hey Vader,
Cool video, I would one day like to get into dusting. Those guys are on top of it. Sounds to me by your giggling, that you get a kick out of it too!
Clay

[Kindsvater Flat]

skeepwerkzaz:
FYI,
The turbine engine ag-wagons come in a few different varieties. One is called the "Turbo Thrush" (Turbo as in turbo-prop) and the new "AG-CAT." They both come from the factory with a Pratt and Whitney PT6 free turbine turboprop, optional of course is the fixed turbine Garrett (now Honeywell) TPE-331-10. Both of these engines are rated between 600-800 SHP.
Gee-Wiz info,
Clay Those guys are actually very good friends of mine. Tiger used to race jet boats for awhile. They also used to go down to AZ during the winter and fly down there. There business is called " Jones Flying Service" Dale's kid is flying now and dumped a radial almost 2 yrs ago. He was lucky. Broken neck and had to wear a halo for 3 months.
If you ever get a chance go ride with one of them. I got to even if it was in the hopper. :D
[ February 15, 2003, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: Kindsvater Flat ]

[Sangster]

Hey Mike .....Sounds like your Holdin' the Camera with "ONE HAND" again...... eek! :confused: :confused: eek!