Can Cat's Blow Over?

[SummerBreeze]

I took a test drive in a few cats this weekend. We were doing about 80 and hit some rollers and got the cat out of the water a few feet. You could feel the air get under it and lift off. Didn't know but can the cat blow over??

[Phat_Kat]

Like dave said! The fact is that a Vee is a lot less prone to it than a tunnel though.

[HavasuDreamin']

Short answer......... yes.
Long answer, it depends on how big it is. The bigger it is, the more likely the back end will hit the water before it goes completely over. This is bad because the next action will be the front end going in the drink (called stuffing it). Drivers (& Passengers) usually die when a boat is stuffed. frown

[riverliver]

RiverDave:
Anything can blow over..
RD Im glad to hear that !!!
Some things should blow over. :D wink

[Boozer]

HavasuDreamin':
Short answer......... yes.
Long answer, it depends on how big it is. The bigger it is, the more likely the back end will hit the water before it goes completely over. This is bad because the next action will be the front end going in the drink (called stuffing it). Drivers (& Passengers) usually die when a boat is stuffed. :( Sounds scary. Almost sounds like one of those things you try intentionally just to see if you can do it and say you lived through it though.
What causes this to happen? Launching a wake? To much chop?
I launch wakes and chop in my V on a regular basis and do it intentionally. Should I not do that anymore if I get a cat?

[SummerBreeze]

I have not spent much time in cats. They have a very different feel. They should because they are. I may not have spent enough time to say but I got a little excited when the front when to the sky and it lifted off. The driver chopped the gas and the nose hit first. Everyone in the boat was jolted forward. It may have only been a few feet off the water. My V bottem has never felt like that but it doesn't do 80...

[Havasu Hangin']

I've lost the horizon at 100MPH in a 26' cat.
Usually it's when I pass out from drinking, but not this time.
I've also been in a 22' cat at 96MPH when the stern started walking sideways.
I gotta order that Lifeline...
[ July 01, 2003, 02:11 PM: Message edited by: Havasu Hangin' ]

[HavasuDreamin']

Boozer:
Sounds scary. It is.
Boozer
Almost sounds like one of those things you try intentionally just to see if you can do it and say you lived through it though. [/QB]Not unless you are really dumb with a capital D.
Boozer
What causes this to happen? Launching a wake? To much chop?[/QB]There are lots of variables that can cause a tunnel to stuff. Weight distribution with to much weight on the transom. Not going quite fast enough to blow it over completely and it comes down ass first. A succession of waves where the first wave sends the nose sky high, but the rear doesn't clear the wave...hits it and tosses the nose down (called tripping). Many other variables. Those are the most common.

[HavasuDreamin']

SummerBreeze:
I got a little excited when the front went to the sky and it lifted off. The driver chopped the gas and the nose hit first. Everyone in the boat was jolted forward. Those are the characteristics of stuffing a boat. Except it is MUCH MORE VIOLENT when the nose actually digs in the water and you go from 100 mph to 0 in about 50 feet. eek! frown

[bigq]

I would say a cat can blow over a lot easier than a V. That is the purpose of the bottom to pack the air. The hull will create lift and feel flighty. I was told this is one of the reasons the insurance is so expensive, along with theft. I had a cal performance "gull wing" that packed air in the front part, not like a cat, but it was flighty.

[Havasu Hangin']

HavasuDreamin':
...when the nose actually digs in the water and you go from 100 mph to 0 in about 50 feet.Like this (http://www.screamandfly.com/screamandflymagazine/images/Videos/Air%20Talon2.mov)?

[Jrocket]

Havasu Hangin':
I've lost the horizon at 100MPH in a 26' cat.
I remember that story!!! :D

[Havasu Cig]

Havasu Hangin':
I've lost the horizon at 100MPH in a 26' cat.
Usually it's when I pass out from drinking, but not this time.
I've also been in a 22' cat at 96MPH when the stern started waling sideways.
I gotta order that Lifeline... My 26 with O/B's started crabbing sideways at about 100 once. It was a sketchy feeling.

[Phat_Kat]

Havasu Hangin':
HavasuDreamin':
...when the nose actually digs in the water and you go from 100 mph to 0 in about 50 feet.Like this (http://www.screamandfly.com/screamandflymagazine/images/Videos/Air%20Talon2.mov)? That guy is so lucky!!!!!!!

[BADBLOWN572]

I think that too many people have been led to believe that "cat" is more like "kite." I have been in and around cats for the past 20 years and I have never personally seen one blow over. Can it happen, no doubt! I honestly do not think that I will ever own another V bottom and blowing a cat over is the last thing on my mind when I take one out. I am much more worried about lake lice than blowing over! Don't let a lot of the myths about cats discourage you from riding in one or owning one. A good friend's wife hated cats until she rode in one and now she loves them! They are a good time!

[mbrown2]

Cat's can blowover when there are a multitude of factors that occur at once, over-trimmed, wind conditions, water conditions, speed, and boat setup....
The ones that I have seen stuff are the ones racing with a couple of those factors above combined, or <20 ft cats when running over trimmed with the above factors
Running 80 in 3-4' water trimmed up in our Cat on windy day, I felt it was packing air, but never flighty

[Jrocket]

Havasu Cig:
Havasu Hangin':
I've lost the horizon at 100MPH in a 26' cat.
Usually it's when I pass out from drinking, but not this time.
I've also been in a 22' cat at 96MPH when the stern started waling sideways.
I gotta order that Lifeline... My 26 with O/B's started crabbing sideways at about 100 once. It was a sketchy feeling. During the OP6 weekend,Riverliver and I were racing down river into a head wind when a strong side wind blew across us.I dont know if he felt it but my boat started to crab sideways pretty bad and that was only at 75 or so.Its not a good feeling at all.

[riverliver]

Jrocket:
Havasu Cig:
Havasu Hangin':
I've lost the horizon at 100MPH in a 26' cat.
Usually it's when I pass out from drinking, but not this time.
I've also been in a 22' cat at 96MPH when the stern started waling sideways.
I gotta order that Lifeline... My 26 with O/B's started crabbing sideways at about 100 once. It was a sketchy feeling. During the OP6 weekend,Riverliver and I were racing down river into a head wind when a strong side wind blew across us.I dont know if he felt it but my boat started to crab sideways pretty bad and that was only at 75 or so.Its not a good feeling at all. Must be a DCB thing LOL

[Havasu Cig]

We were running on Havasu in February when we first got the boat. The water was glassy and the boat just got a wierd light feeling, and then started going sideways. The motors at the time were mounted very high. We ended up lowering them because of water pressure problems and it never happened again.
Our I/O 26 spinning out because of a steering problem at about 70 mph was scarrier though. eek!

[Craig]

Yup, maybe not this time, but damn near it eek! Boat went up even higher after I snapped the shot!
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/140larry5-med.jpg

[SummerBreeze]

If you start to feel the air under the cat (lift off) should you use your trim to get the nose down? While keeping the gas on.

[Bigyellowcat]

we were at loto last weekend and went 80 the whole time through the roughest stuff on that lake. and i was sitting in my seat holding a can of coke and it did not even spill, i only lifted once that i thought the span inbetween waves was going to be long enough for my motors to come up in rpm, a big heavy cat could probably not be beat in thouse waters.

[Jrocket]

Craig:
Yup, maybe not this time, but damn near it eek! Boat went up even higher after I snapped the shot!
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/140larry5-med.jpg I seem to remember this picture from awhile back.Looks scarry as hell...

[Craig]

Yeah, I opriginally posted it after the Parade of Lights. Funny thing is the two in the boat didn't realize just how high they went until they saw this pic later that night :) They thought it was just another fun ride.

[Havasu Hangin']

Jrocket:
I remember that story!!!Yeah...happened a couple times that day. I guess I'm a glutton for punishment.
Havasu Cig:
...and the boat just got a wierd light feeling, and then started going sideways...That "crabbing" was the scariest feeling I've had to date. I mean...if the stern is moving around, it feels more like a being on a skipping stone than a boat...

[Havasu Cig]

Yeah I would have to say it was probably the Scarriest feeling I have had as well. I remember turning the wheel at the time and I had no control at all. Once I backed out of the throttles it straightened out. That is the only time my other 1/2 has ever been scarred in a boat as well. Nothing usually scares her at all.
The spin in our other 26 happed so fast I did not have time to think about it. Our back seat passenger was hurting for a while after that, but at least he avoided going for a swim (barely).

[Dave C]

I have had 2 sort-of-fast cats, 21 Elim & 22 Cougar.
During "calm" conditions, they both got "light" but never felt scary, rather under control as if the tunnel was designed for controlling the air.
Well since it is never "calm" at the lake, my 22 feels a bit out of control sometimes in heavy surf but not to the point where it wants to blow over. It seems if you work with the throttle, you have alot of control.
I have "skipped" and "seat-changed" a few semi-v/flat bottoms before and that is a different feel.
Does anyone know if the cat has an equal amount of downforce as lift over its hull as it moves throught the air? It seems reasonable that it controls the air to some extent?
Otherwise wouldn't it porpoise and move more at high speeds rather than hold rock solid in "calmer" water?
I noticed that the 21 Elim had quite a unique shape on the top that I assumed created downforce.

[Havasu Hangin']

Dave C:
Does anyone know if the cat has an equal amount of downforce as lift over its hull as it moves throught the air? It seems reasonable that it controls the air to some extent?
Otherwise wouldn't it porpoise and move more at high speeds rather than hold rock solid in "calmer" water?
I noticed that the 21 Elim had quite a unique shape on the top that I assumed created downforce. Hmmmm...not sure about that.
Keep in mind I'm not an expert (kind of an idiot, really)...
...but if that were true, a cat would run the same in any wind. Most cats I've been in run faster into the wind, which would make me believe that more air speed = more lift.
I would think trim and tunnel design have alot to do with the angle of attack (unless you are in a really big cat)...which would affect how the air is packed (and/or released).
...but what do I know.

[Charley]

Havasu Hangin':
...which would affect how the air is packed (and/or released).
...but what do I know. no shit dude... why are you even in this section?? :p
Just kidding wink :D

[hboldno7]

BADBLOWN572:
I think that too many people have been led to believe that "cat" is more like "kite." I have been in and around cats for the past 20 years and I have never personally seen one blow over. Can it happen, no doubt! I honestly do not think that I will ever own another V bottom and blowing a cat over is the last thing on my mind when I take one out. I am much more worried about lake lice than blowing over! Don't let a lot of the myths about cats discourage you from riding in one or owning one. A good friend's wife hated cats until she rode in one and now she loves them! They are a good time! BB572 never has to worry about his blowing over, its got plenty of stereo equipment holding it down. Hahaha :D :D

[Jrocket]

Havasu Cig:
The spin in our other 26 happed so fast I did not have time to think about it. Our back seat passenger was hurting for a while after that, but at least he avoided going for a swim (barely). Power steering failure?

[Keith E. Sayre]

In response to Summer Breezes comment on "what to do", yes you are absolutely correct. If you find
yourself going over, the only chance you have is to stand on the gas (although you probably already
are)--don't let up and hit the down button for the trim. I've watched a few 21' Daytonas go over
and instinct will cause you to let up on the gas
which will allow the transom to go down which will
usually raise the bow even higher which will allow
more wind to become trapped which may blow you over. You've got to control your emotions and
resist the temptation to get off the throttle!
As for these boats blowing over, sure the 21's go
over at 110 mph occasionally but it's almost always due to driver error. The 25' to 28' boats
could go over but you'd have to either be real
stupid or you'd have to be going extremely fast.
speeds over 125 mph? I'd be much more concerned
going 90 mph in a v bottom than going 120 in a 28'
cat. Most cats are extremely predictable.
Keith Sayre
Conquest Boats
Lake Havasu City
928-680-1400

[ClownRoyal]

I got a 28 Magic cat that goes about 80 with the 500 EFI. I have a 31 Scarab that goes about 68. The Magic feels like it is going 110 after getting out of the Scarab. Anyone want to buy a Scarab?
Keith,
Good stuff...but I would probably panic and jerk the throttle back in that situation. Kind of like freezing in front of an oncoming car in a parking lot when you should be getting your ass to one side.

[Havasu Cig]

Jrocket:
Havasu Cig:
The spin in our other 26 happed so fast I did not have time to think about it. Our back seat passenger was hurting for a while after that, but at least he avoided going for a swim (barely). Power steering failure? One of the valves malfunctioned in the steering and the drive instantly went all the way to starboard causing the boat to spin. Luckily I was slowing down. we were running about 90 mph when I lost steering and I got out of the throttle. Right after that is when the drive went to starboard.
[ July 02, 2003, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: Havasu Cig ]

[SummerBreeze]

Thanks Keith for your helpful info.
I have been looking at 35-38 ft. V-boats. I got that out of my head because they are too heavy and slow.
I looked and got a ride in a 31ft cat with 2 blown motors in it (112mph) Not the user friendly boat I was looking for. The boat felt great at that speed. No lift.
Then I try a couple of 28 footers. Different feel again. Lighter boat single engines. Chopping the gas as the ft end comes up is a lot like road racing bikes everything stops to soon and you get pitched off.
So let me get this right you can at that point of lift off keep the gas on and use you trim tap to adjust the boat?? Trim tab up?? makes the ft end go down? Sorry, but I have been into V-drives for 20 years. Any help in this area would be helpful.

[jlnorthrup122]

If you start to feel the air under the cat (lift off) should you use your trim to get the nose down? While keeping the gas on. I was told that a cat should have the trim tabbs set and left alone unless you know what you are doing so I guess once you find the best stetting for your cat run with it and if an amature finds his or her way to the controls let it be known not to touch the trim tabbs :confused:

[Charley]

Keith, Thanks for the info! interesting stuff...I hope if that situation arises I can remember that in time....hmm...maybe I can use that with my wife in the boat... "hunny I felt the bow starting to kite and Keith said to just hammer it" wink .... as far as "Tabs" are concerned on a cat, I would agree that you had better be comfortable with your driving ability if you plan on having either trim or tunnel tabs on a cat. If they are inadvertantly down when you start hauling as or if you foolishly trim them down at high speed you can almost bank on something bad happening. Cats, unlike V's will not run very safely at high speed with the nose down in the water....nose too far down in a high speed turn and a Sponson will grab ...potentially causing a barrel roll .. here is a pic of my old 21 running about 40mph...nose is pretty high, but not as high as the idiot in the video earlier in this thread....I'm sorry, I'm glad he was ok but he was asking for that to happen....entirely WAY TOO much trim!
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/38blkboat.jpg

[Dave C]

Ever see those v-bottoms barrel roll in competition after hitting a wake wrong? Scary stuff.... frown

[Dave C]

damn charley, that thing is nose high big-time!....
I had a 1980 21 elim with a jet and it never got that nose high even at 90, trimmed up.
that is butt-pucker high.... those outboards certainly hang-em-out-there.....

[Mr.Havasu]

Havasu Hangin':
HavasuDreamin':
...when the nose actually digs in the water and you go from 100 mph to 0 in about 50 feet.Like this (http://www.screamandfly.com/screamandflymagazine/images/Videos/Air%20Talon2.mov)? I can't open it up! Which media player should I use?

[HavasuDreamin']

Just saw that video. What a dumb ass. LUCKY MOFO.
W-25.........right click on it and "save target as" to your hard drive. Then open it up. Worked for me.

[hboldno7]

HavasuDreamin':
Just saw that video. What a dumb ass. LUCKY MOFO.
W-25.........right click on it and "save target as" to your hard drive. Then open it up. Worked for me. what an idiot. crazy focker

[nodigg]

I always wonder how fast is too fast in my cat. I know I am not packing enough power to get into too much trouble? but what a great feeling when at about 80 you over trim up and begin to be able to "float" up and out of the water with a sweet, controlled feeling for a soft touch down into the water. What a kick! Trim down a little below that point and I just get a vary stable and controlled feeling. Gawd I love cats!

[nodigg]

Just looked at the video....Does anybody really have that little feel for their boat? NO DOUBT THEY DO!
[ July 03, 2003, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: nodigg ]

[XLGPP]

kited mine @85 mph when I first got it. got caught in a bad storm and was trying to keep it up on top of the chop, then the water turned into huge swells and rollers. we launched off the ramp side of one and were going into a head wind. needless to say the wind caught us like a kite. landed right on the ass end but thankfully enough we landed on the back slope of the next swell so we didnt stuff the front end. never been so scared in a boat in my life. I think that was the biggest reason for my divorce. lol wife didnt talk to me for almost 2 weeks. Woulda been a cool dbl in motocross BUT NOT IN A BOAT!
[ July 03, 2003, 03:37 PM: Message edited by: XLGPP ]

[dorC]

I've been told that unless you really are dumb that a 26' cat going under 100 won't go over backwards. Right now with my setup I have a bigger problem with keeping the ass end straight. The mrs usually doesn't notice it, but it usually scares the shit out of me when I feel the back end kick over. I just keep on wondering how close I came to spinning out. I've deliberetly spun the boat at low speeds and it's really amazing how fast it will come around.

[daytona 23]

if you are gettin air at 80 mph then you need to go over the waves faster, we have found out if we hit boat rollers at 50 to 75 the boat launches,aka 23 daytona,now at 85 a little jumpy but at 100 never felt a thing i think cats motto is faster the better. we have taken this boat over 5' boat wake at 95 mph scared the poop out of me till we went across it was smooth.still makes you wonder tho. prop slection is also a factor on how the boat handles i found out that cleavers are the best. choppers make it more wild .