all 20.5 eliminator cruiser

[Scape Goat]

what strut angle are you running and location(is it in the recess spot)
what gears in the v drive
what prop are you running(brand and size)
pics if you have them
thanks brian

[Scape Goat]

http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2846PB040042.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2846PB040075.JPG

[dmontzsta]

What happened around the rudder?
I will look at my dads, you want to know how far it is from the transom to where the strut starts?
I have no idea about the specs, my dad doesnt attempt to go super fast. The motor is a near stock 460, boat gps'd 55mph with 5 FAT guys and 40 gallons of fuel. I know it is a 3 blade and the boat pulls skiiers up like a mofo.

[Scape Goat]

Sounds about right
would like to know info to help me on mine
exspecialy the prop and gear ratio
the rudder area came that way to me , looks like that is how they try to stoped the leak

[Scape Goat]

http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2846bocco1.bmp

[ScapeGoat]

Did a little research and had the boat look at. Looks like I will have to strip the boat and start over.
frist problem: motor is to far forward.
second problem: gearbox needs to be change so I can put taller gears.
Prop: could have swore the boat came with a menkins when it was for sale, must have mispelled bronze precission, it happens :cool:
All the pick ups in bad spots.
oh and what cause this thing to kick the tail out, is said to be this water pick up that looks like a damn shovel welded up.
alot of work to do and gonna be a slow project. but I will eventualy be able to drive this thing safely and have stable handling. I am not looking for speed or bragging rights with this project. Just want it cleaned up so It won't sit in someone elses garage, like it seem to have done for most of its existance.
130 hrs from 1980
to be continued

[dmontzsta]

Who have you been talking to about this?

[bocco]

Scapegoat,
Mine is the white boat in the pic you posted. It appears to bo set up exactly the same as yours. So much for rigging by Connelly Boats.
I'm curious who looked at your boat. I agree with the motor being to far forward. It also cuts into the interior room.
Do you have 2 water pickups? One for the engine and on for the trans/V-drive. I thought about putting pickups on the plates and filling the holes but I'm not sure how much plate is in the water at speed due to the space between the plates.
Gary

[superdave013]

before you go crazy why not try a different prop?
You could move the engine all around and it won't do to much. The strut angle and location is the big factor. But before you go redoing everything play with some props.
Looks like the prop wash is getting to the bottom of the boat a bit. That white stuff looks like Marine Tex. Just sand it smooth for now.

[bocco]

Also I am running a 12x16 3 blade steel prop with a little cup on it. 15% gears in a C500. I think it is too much pitch for the boat. But I was thinking like an IO guy and adding pitch until the the RPMs came down.
When I dumped my bronze prop for a steel one I tried 3 different props from Joe Shelfo at GT boats in Cordelia. The first one was cool looking 3 blade cleaver type deal. To much slip, RPMs to the limit and no top end. The second one was a more standard big eared 3 blade that was over 12 in diameter and to close to the bottom of the the boat. The one I have now is just under 12 diameter. Joe worked it several times for until I decided it wasn't goint to take any more pitch.
If I had a little more time and money to burn I would love to try that first prop with way taller gears like 29s maybe. But changing gears on a C500 is a pain. So I'm going to just live with and call it a cruiser for now. I'm just hitting 60 on a good day at 5000 RPM

[VD CRUISER]

How far is it from the transom to the back end of the strut barrel and what is the shaft angle. On my 21 Howard it originally was 17" and 10 deg. When I reworked it I moved it forward to 23 1/2" and changed the angle to 7.5 deg. Made a world of difference. Move those water pickups to the cav plate, as close to the inside edge as you can. I use a # 10 for the engine and a #12 for the intercooler and they only stick below the plate about 3/8" to a 1/2". Those cav plates don't seem to fit in the recesses very well. If you wanted to you could make new plates and have them fit the recess perfectly and you could also widen the recess and make the plates come a little closer together,(mine have a 3" gap between them). Check the bottom for straightness and for hook. These kind of things will cut down on drag and turbulence. Also, I have found that the boat works best with 11 1/2 to 11 3/4 dia. props. Oh, and my engine is pretty close to the back and the battery is mounted behind the engine. Sorry for the long post. These are just some things that have helped my boat handle better and go faster.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1410100_1652.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1410100_1651-med.JPG

[dmontzsta]

My Dad is also running a 12x16 3 blade on his, the boat does just fine. It does not have big power and runs 55mph, but it does what you want it to. I think it is also too much pitch, but it is a cruiser. He is going to have it cut to a 11.5x16 soon. The boat comes out of the hole VERY hard for how big and underpowered it is.
I am with Dave on this one, try some different props. You might be opening a can of worms, so be ready.
I think mouzer is running a 12x15 3 blade? you might want to ask him how his cruiser rides.
:) Good Luck.

[Marty Gras]

I like the shape and length of the rudder "VD Cruiser" shows in his picture. The prop has the right 'blade shape' but it doesn't have the 90 degree cup that I was talking about. You can't go down to a 7 1/2 degree shaft angle, your hull has no center strakes and it will just drag thru the water without bow lift. Angle milling the strut and resetting it to 8 degrees, (V- drive forward) cutting the barrel moving the prop forward, moving the motor/trans back, will get you where you need to be and save a ton of "casheesh". Like everyone has pointed out here, there are many ways of making it run. The amount of speed, reliability, headache, and cost are what will guide your path. "Bocco" please note that your (white hull bottom) rudder stuffing box is too short. It allows the rudder blade to come in contact with the hull bottom (fiberglass), no matter what is on the inside holding the rudder down, it's an accident waiting to happen. "VD" where is your motor in relationship to your prop? Under the timing cover? Under #2 cylinder? Behind the motor?

[ScapeGoat]

I have heard almost all of us with eliminators cruise along the the boat falls to the left side with no stearing out of it, plus who is running over 500 true horsepower in there 20.5 eliminator.
And yes my boat is diving on the nose then kicking the tail out. also the howard runs bad ass but complete different bottom. which I think will take a set different.
I can cruise up to about 50-60 then she gets real loose/ with the plate up
with the plate down she will kick the tail and bow stear. I was cruising slowly picking up speed around the lake setting the plate and getting a feel and she was nice and loose and all the sudden she kick the tail and damn near through my passenger out from the drivers side of the boat over the passenger side. after that I won't cruise over 35mph and I get nervous with it. My intended use is to set the boat up with the motor it has old school banks twin turbo, no racing in mind but 70mph might be nice in a safe manner
bocca I have three pick ups third is for the inner cooler
props If you have some to borrow I will try em :)
my engine is I believe 14" from the tansome to the belt pulley on the ballencer.

[ScapeGoat]

lets see some measurements/ gear /prop and hp along with mph guys. I going to start a long process but I still want info and pictures. I seen one redand white boat like ours with a modified bottum. this thing ran 90's but had inner strake custom made to the boat to create a flatter non rounded bottum. I don't think I can afford that kind of work.

[MBMOSEBILT]

I would speek to Greg at GS Marine. He said that when he was working at Eliminator the rolling to the left side was a big problem. I was thinking of having him do a complete rerig of the boat. His plan is to give the boat a center ride plate so the boat doesn't fall. At high speed the boat has no place to ride.

[VD CRUISER]

Marty Gras, The engine is out of the boat right now, but the prop looks like it will be just a tick in front of the # 2 cyl. My rudder is touching the bottom,(blast plate), also. How much should it clear the bottom ? I put it close to cut down on drag. Also that prop is a Radiece and I ran a Menkins that looked just like it. neither had the cup. My stainless steel Menkins had cup but not the steel one. Dallas doesn't seem to like to put cup in the steel props. My steel 2 blade is faster by about 5 or 6 mph, but of course its not as smooth. You mentioned these boats not having center strakes, my center strakes stop at the center fin and barely touch the water at full song. Its hard to compare two different boat designs, hell two of the same designs will probably act differently. My first 21 Howard did the falling to one side thing when a blower motor was put in it, but all of the underwater hardware was as it came from Howard in 1974, I never changed anythng on it.

[LeE ss13]

The strut and prop are way too far back.

[Marty Gras]

"VD" Howard Brown would move the strut forward 6" when the customer started talking 'blower motor'. Many of his (unblown) 21' and 24' boats ran the prop back and no plates. Yes! the strut and prop are too far back IF YOU ARE RIGGING IT LIKE A FLATBOTTOM, that's just how it was done the first time. (that's why it won't run worth a s#!t) The bottom really needs two center strakes, but that would be a ton of work and $$$$. I feel this thing can be 'very nice' without spending a ton of cash and time. Dallas does not like to put the "cup" on steel props because they just burn it off very quickly. The stainless props really can hold the cup and make a very nice "small" thrust area behind the boat. Many people who have not been around the 'V- drive deal' don't understand that a "new boat" right out of the factory might not be rigged correctly. (any big brand name) The uneducated owner often 'feels the need' to throw tons of cash at the power, when the boat just needs RERIGGING. "VD" your hull is just on the verge of getting "off" the center strakes, and rolling to the side (or over) on the round bottom. Your low shaft angle is the thing that keeps the center strakes in the water and saves you.

[VD CRUISER]

Marty Gras, Yeah when I got this boat from Howard there were no plans for a blown motor. As I added more power the boat began to have handling issues, and with the blown 540 it was spooky. When I thru a prop blade I decided to make some changes. With a new strut and some information from Phil Bergeron, I moved the strut ahead 6 1/2" and blue printed the bottom. I had wanted to add some strakes close to the center like the Rayson Craft has, but the boat handles pretty good now at 100+ mph. At speed the fin is only partially in the water, so the existing strakes are probably just barely touching the surface. Do you think the addition of the strakes would improve anything or create more drag.