DCB vs Eliminator ...the truth about PRICING!

[Charley]

Ok.... I am so sick and tired of hearing the same misconception about how expensive DCB's are that I felt obligated to put the reality into black and white..... As most of you know DCB has a 29' canopied cat and Eliminator has both a 28' and 30' Canopied cat.... so I compared all 3 .... These prices were retail based and on a bone stock, twin 496HO model with a trailer. Interesting part is that the DCB comes with alot more in thier bone stock package... But
here is the Skinny, quoted all 3 Today
Eliminator Daytona 28 ICC $176,604
DCB F-29 $179,950
Eliminator Daytona 30 ICC $199,604
So based on retail relative pricing for
$3,347 more than a 28' ICC or $19,654 less than a 30' ICC you can have a DCB F-29 not to mention that the DCB comes with
1. A stereo(yes upgrade on eliminator)
2. Gaffrig Gauges(yes upgrade on eliminator)
3. Dual Ram Steering(yes upgrade on eliminator)
4. Latham Throttles and shifters (yes upgrade on eliminator)
+ I dont know if Eliminators come on a competitive trailer still or not but if they do the Extreme trailer that all DCB's sit on would be another distinct upgrade....I even think 12 V sockets come in the base models for free now ;)
I know alot of this boils down to what you like as far as lines on a boat and what flag you want to wave, but the whole DCB's are sooooo expensive myth needs to be "myth busted"..... I cant wait for eliminator lovers and owner's daughters ;) to strike a pose here and I hope this thread flames out of control for a few days.... but I feel confident Kool-Aid Lovers abroad will douse those mythful Flames with thier gigantic Kool Aid eminating hoses..... bring it on Kids :D .... Cats and Tunnels needs a little rumble! :devil: :devil:

[Magic34]

Damn... Not only are DCBs really really expensive, but so are Eliminators.
Just kidding. :wink:

[djunkie]

Damn... Not only are DCBs really really expensive, but so are Eliminators.
Just kidding. :wink:
LOL!!!! :D

[BLOWN HOWARD]

Got My Popcorn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Magic34]

here is the Skinny, quoted all 3 Today
Eliminator Daytona 28 ICC $176,604
DCB F-29 $179,950
Eliminator Daytona 30 ICC $199,604
And an Outerlimits or Skater is just $12 more than those.

[unleashed]

I think they both are pretty much equal in Rigging and performance...but Eliminator has the racing history and DCB...well they have errr ahhhh Charley! :D
By the way Dave has nice hair but he aint no Brandy leach! :D
So the way I see it Eliminator 2- DCB-0....yehaaawwwwww bring it on....by the way I respect both companies and owners...really good people who stand behind there product!
Deano
Unleashedclothing (http://www.unleashedclothing.com) :crossx:

[riverroyal]

1500 easy payment i could afford either,but id be homeless,but everyone would look at me,,hmmmm

[sigepmock]

By the way Dave has nice hair but he aint no Brandy leach! :D
Unleashedclothing (http://www.unleashedclothing.com) :crossx:
DAMN STRAIGHT!!!! :D

[Charley]

I think they both are pretty much equal in Rigging and performance...but Eliminator has the racing history and DCB...well they have errr ahhhh Charley! :D
By the way Dave has nice hair but he aint no Brandy leach! :D
So the way I see it Eliminator 2- DCB-0....yehaaawwwwww bring it on....by the way I respect both companies and owners...really good people who stand behind there product!
Deano
Unleashedclothing (http://www.unleashedclothing.com) :crossx:
i agree deano... either a dcb or an eliminator would be an improvement for you....doh!! :jawdrop: :D :D

[andy01]

i agree deano... either a dcb or an eliminator would be an improvement for you....doh!! :jawdrop: :D :D
DOH!

[andy01]

Charlie this thread is bullshit! Where do you get off try to make The "E" company look bad again? Doesn't everybody know DCB builds the best WEST COAST boat for the buck? Service, qaulity and over all performing boat. Is DCB not the best value for your dollar? Not most expensive but best over all value? I shopped a Daytona and Mach a couple of years ago. No rigging on the same trailer with interior. And well the pricing was so close the I had to spend the extra pennies (It was that close in price) and get the "Worlds Best Mach 26". (MIne was the best looking Mach built, sorry Charlie) I now own "World Champions". So the way I see it why do they still build Daytonas? Why isn't everybody buy F-series boats. Oh one more thing there Mr. King DCB Cheerleader. If you buy a Daytona and don't take it as raw fiberglass there is an up charge for ANY kind of gel coat and they tell you about the up charge of $6,500 dollars after you have all of your final numbers in hand. "You want that simple Gel, no problem" Two weeks later "oh that is one of the hardest ones to do". It was the same thing as Brians at DCB before Brians boat was ever done.
Charlie you are looking for trouble that you can't handle!
Andy

[andy01]

Oh one more thing, I am not beating on the Daytona line just simply stating the facts that I have learned dealing with boat companies. DCB once and the "e" company twice.
Have a nice day............
Andy

[Jordy]

Popcorn, get your popcorn here!!! :D :D :D
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/23popcorn.jpg

[Brian]

Let's do a little math here:
496 HO/Bravo XR packages, OEM pricing x 2: 40k
trailer: 10k
hardware: 30k (being generous here)
Subract that from 180k and you get 100k. Wow, expensive fiberglass...
:rolleyes:

[mbrown2]

Pricing, Smicing.....Brandie is HOT! :):):)

[bear down]

Is the DCB pricing the "Charley" pricing or prices that we would get off the streets. All I know is that boats are pretty expensive but I love my Eliminator..But you are right...They both are the same...When I priced the 28' v-hulls from DCB and Eliminator, equally equipped, It was 12k cheaper through Eliminator, but it would have been my second boat from them so maybe I was getting a return deal. I would think the 28 daytona hull would be more similar to the f-29 than the 30 daytona. What is the performance difference between the two (28/30 daytona vs. the F-29) with the same power, that can factor into the price as well.

[mbrown2]

Let's do a little math here:
496 HO/Bravo XR packages, OEM pricing x 2: 40k
trailer: 10k
hardware: 30k (being generous here)
Subract that from 180k and you get 100k. Wow, expensive fiberglass...
:rolleyes:
I thought the new 30 deck from Magic was right around 200K with no name custom motors...expensive fiberglass indeed...all of them.

[riverroyal]

its 180 with 496hos,buts its a huge 30ft,tall and wide.Its about the same as the above mentioned boats.

[DrewDown]

Let's do a little math here:
496 HO/Bravo XR packages, OEM pricing x 2: 40k
trailer: 10k
hardware: 30k (being generous here)
Subract that from 180k and you get 100k. Wow, expensive fiberglass...
:rolleyes:
Yes, They are both waaaaaaaaaaaay over priced. But very very nice boats.
Its nice to see that DCB is now uping the base options.But charley you forgot he is going to rape you in your pooper if you want a foam pad underneath $500 or maybe a fan $500 I looked at the DCB upgrade price list last season and threw it down in discust. Do we have a current one? BAD ASS CLEAN AS FOCK BOAT THOUGH
FYI
28' skater base price 150
30' spectre base price 150

[CornWater]

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/1/1_4_106.gif

[DrewDown]

Pricing, Smicing.....Brandie is HOT! :):):)
Well said

[DrewDown]

I thought the new 30 deck from Magic was right around 200K with no name custom motors...expensive fiberglass indeed...all of them.
That thing cant get out of its own way

[riverroyal]

does it need to go that fast?,,buy a closed bow if you want to haul ass.How much is the DCB 30ft deck gonna be?

[DrewDown]

does it need to go that fast?,,buy a closed bow if you want to haul ass.How much is the DCB 30ft deck gonna be?
Sorry, I didnt notice it said deck but I was refering to the closed bow. 34 is it?????

[Jordy]

FYI
28' skater base price 150
30' spectre base price 150
http://www.spectrepowerboats.com/JPG/Whatsnew/32SummerSpecial.gif

[Charley]

Charlie you are looking for trouble that you can't handle!
Andy
Dude... I'm not stating that eliminator is any less of a boat, I stated quite clearly that if you like the Daytona lines or the emilinator name thats cool...my point is to wreck the myth that DCB's cost more! besides... If I remember correctly you sold your "worlds best" for more than you paid for it! lets wait and see if your "world champions" serves you as well ;)
Let's do a little math here:
496 HO/Bravo XR packages, OEM pricing x 2: 40k
trailer: 10k
hardware: 30k (being generous here)
Subract that from 180k and you get 100k. Wow, expensive fiberglass...
:rolleyes:
YA.... Rent, Insurance, Payroll, workman's comp, Design, R&D, Service, custom C&Cd hardware, oh and lets not forget a lil profit have nothing to do with it.... it's just fiberglass... sorry yer comment is ignorant
Is the DCB pricing the "Charley" pricing or prices that we would get off the streets..
absolutely retail pricing for both.... and then it's up to you to strike a better deal...for either.... when I bought my first DCB I used the word "Eliminator" in every single one of my negotiations ;)
I looked at the DCB upgrade price list last season and threw it down in discust. Do we have a current one?
Once again asking prices... some are reasonable, some Dave is making too much profit on.... it's the buyers job to put a value on each option and make an offer, anyone who pays retail for options is sillier than a 36' offshore boat with bravos :cry:
FYI
28' skater base price 150
30' spectre base price 150
puhlease cracka..... 28' skater is an OB boat... you cant compare the two so just stop... now I will say Spectre looks like they are running a summer special on thier website on the 32 of $169k with 496ho's Thats impressive! but its a limited time special, I dont think it includes a trailer and it's also NOT a retail price <Jordy smooch my ass> so with the bro deal you can likely get a 29 cheaper with a trailer ;)

[Charley]

By the way I have had 2 non alcoholic beers already and I am poised to refute all myths about overpriced DCB's, well in between baby bottle warmings and diaper changing :cool:

[Jordy]

now I will say Spectre looks like they are running a summer special on thier website on the 32 of $169k with 496ho's Thats impressive! but its a limited time special, I dont think it includes a trailer and it's also NOT a retail price <Jordy smooch my ass> so with the bro deal you can likely get a 29 cheaper with a trailer ;)
True, but much like the employee pricing deals, once you show your hand, it's kind of hard to up the ante at a later date, as you can tell by the continued extensions on the program. That 32' is pretty sick though. They had it running 112 with a pair of 525's, granted by the time it was all outfitted there it was well passed the $200K mark. ;)

[Essex29]

Ha Ha! I almost wish I wasn't going out tonight :cool:
I'ts gonna be a live one in here tonight :rollside:

[riverroyal]

2 non alcoholic beers?

[Jordy]

2 non alcoholic beers?
He's breast feeding. :D

[andy01]

Dude... I'm not stating that eliminator is any less of a boat, I stated quite clearly that if you like the Daytona lines or the emilinator name thats cool...my point is to wreck the myth that DCB's cost more! besides... If I remember correctly you sold your "worlds best" for more than you paid for it! lets wait and see if your "world champions" serves you as well ;)
Easy tiger...... If you read my post it is all pro DCB. I was kidding with my last line.........jezz some people these days. You need to get on the water my friend and relaxe at 100mph............ Yes I did make money on my 26' :D I want another DCB........... someday when they build a boat that fits my needs, I wouldn't think twice about buy a DCB again. I loved that boat and Dave was a cool the first time I meet him the time I called him and told him I was selling my boat.
Andy

[Charley]

2 non alcoholic beers?
He's breast feeding. :D
Damn I wish!!! Jen wont even let me lick em right now! :D
Easy tiger...... If you read my post it is all pro DCB. I was kidding with my last line.........jezz some people these days.
Andy
I'm totally teasing Andy I know you are too.... I'm just stirring the shit up a lil tonight in C&T ;) this place has been mostly boring lately! too bad I gotta go soon :(

[Jordy]

this place has been mostly boring lately! too bad I gotta go soon :(
Seems as though D-row has been asleep at the wheel. Where are all the shit disturbers lately? :idea: :D
I do know that HH was in Phoenix this week. :D

[Charley]

That 32' is pretty sick though. They had it running 112 with a pair of 525's
Hmmm I ran 118 in Dave's 525 powered 29' .... thought those spectres were fast :supp: oh well they may be slower but they must have a huge Cabin underneath to cuddle up to your loved one,,, you spose Rocky and 3do could fit in the berth of a CS32?? side by side of course ... belly to belly would require a deck boat :supp: :supp:

[Jordy]

Hmmm I ran 118 in Dave's 525 powered 29' .... thought those spectres were fast :supp:
Charley, Charley, Charley, now we're back at the lake Kood Aid boat versus the Lake Pacific boat. :D :D :D
you spose Rocky and 3do could fit in the berth of a CS32?? side by side of course ... belly to belly would require a deck boat :supp: :supp:
Damn, you are looking to stir it up. However, I haven't seen either one of them on here in a long time. I think Jeffy might be off at fat camp. :D :D :D

[andy01]

Hmmm I ran 118 in Dave's 525 powered 29' .... thought those spectres were fast :
The 32' with 500 hps ran 110.2 with Bob Teague driving, for the power boat right up. I would think it would run a little better then 2 mph with another 10 percent of hp. But yes with the kitchen and bathroom and two state rooms under nieth the bow of that 32' I think those speeds are very good.
Andy

[Charley]

I think Jeffy might be off at fat camp. :D :D :D
dat right dare is funny!

[andy01]

Hmmm I ran 118 in Dave's 525 powered 29' .:supp:
Oh and I am calling bullsh&t here for another reason! Have you driven a boat since the 525 has been out........... DOH!
Andy

[Jordy]

dat right dare is funny!
Do you have a better suggestion???? :D :D :D

[Jordy]

Oh and I am calling bullsh&t here for another reason! Have you driven a boat since the 525 has been out........... DOH!
Andy
I gotta score that round to Andy. Sorry Mr. Big. :idea: :D

[andy01]

Damn to east coast guys come in the short guy runs out on............ biatch...

[CornWater]

Hmmm I ran 118 in Dave's 525 powered 29' .... thought those spectres were fast :supp: oh well they may be slower but they must have a huge Cabin underneath to cuddle up to your loved one,,, you spose Rocky and 3do could fit in the berth of a CS32?? side by side of course ... belly to belly would require a deck boat :supp: :supp:
How fast is the 34' w/ those 525's ???? :boxingguy

[andy01]

How fast is the 34' w/ those 525's ???? :boxingguy
DOH good question................................... :2purples:

[Jordy]

Damn to east coast guys come in the short guy runs out on............ biatch...
I think there are several possible explanations here:
#1. Mr. Big is getting a fresh near beer and changing a diaper. ;)
or
#2. Mr. Big is employing the stir shit then duck and run for cover method. Nah, that can't be it. He has no need to duck. :idea: :D
Diapers and near beer is it. :D

[BLOWN HOWARD]

Got a question how many boats did Dave have to sell to buy the Ferrari?? My guess is 2

[Magic34]

Sorry, I didnt notice it said deck but I was refering to the closed bow. 34 is it?????
Oh sh*t, now I am getting involved. :yuk: :devil: :rollside:

[Brian]

... sorry yer comment is ignorant
And you need to get over "yerself"...

[unleashed]

i agree deano... either a dcb or an eliminator would be an improvement for you....doh!! :jawdrop: :D :D
Hey its ok...I saved alot of money hence that is why I've been boating for 3 year straight...were've you been! :hammerhea
Its good to kiss Daves ass and comb his hair for him but when you've been without boating for 2 summers now I dont think its worked in your favor but go ahead and keep building those bitchen platforms it makes you and Dave look taller! :D
One more thing where in the hell did DCB Racing come from??? Did you and Dave win an offshore race recently that we dont know about??? That name is about as bad as Force Offshore with no offshore boats! :p
HAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHHAAHAH...I LOVE IT!
Ofcourse Im saying all this cause I want to get in good with Brandie! :wink:
Once again its Eliminator with Offshore racing history and DCB with UMMMMM Charley the bench racer! :p
I'll stick with my Talon, Carrera, Rayson craft 130mph boat thank you! YEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAWWWWWWW
Deano
Unleashedclothing (http://www.unleashedclothing.com) :crossx:

[Reaper1]

Hey its ok...I saved alot of money hence that is why I've been boating for 3 year straight...were've you been! :hammerhea
Wait up Deano, I saw Charley at the river this year and he blew by me in some Hot Rod DCB Pontoon. :cool:

[Charley]

And you need to get over "yerself"...
Sorry Brian, I just thought your comment was completely unfair...... to say the "fiberglass sure is expensive" just doesn't show enough respect towards a custom boat manufacturer's effort, a business, or its owner and what these guys have to go through to build a quality, state of the art product that appeals to the public.... I dont care if it's Eliminator, DCB, Douglas Marine or Trident boats.... making a boat is certainly alot more than a calculation of subtracting out what stuff costs and then trying justify the cost of fiberglass..... trying to make a business successful in California is no picnic and it boils down to supply and demand. When Bob Leach, Dave Hemmingson, Peter Hedlin or Wes Inskeep stop getting thier asking price on boats is when you will see those prices go down... they have the right to ask whatever they think thier personal offering is worth... if they get it thats great... god bless em all for giving us choices, and making some money along the way to keep producing something better next time around! I apologize if I was rude in my prior post, as a business owner I guess you just struck a nerve.... my apologies just the same for my comment

[Charley]

Wait up Deano, I saw Charley at the river this year and he blew by me in some Hot Rod DCB Pontoon. :cool:
what did you expect when you are sitting in a magic... everything blows by you :( ;) :chi:

[Charley]

Oh and I am calling bullsh&t here for another reason! Have you driven a boat since the 525 has been out........... DOH!
Andy
I was in the backseat spectre boy...It was the day Dave had his boat in for the ***boat trials(it made the cover ;) ) and we took 2 rides...he asked my opinion on 4 blade bravo or 5 blade maximus..... you guys with boats really like to rub salt in us boatless bitches wounds eh :cry:

[Charley]

Once again its Eliminator with Offshore racing history and DCB with UMMMMM Charley the bench racer! :p Unleashedclothing (http://www.unleashedclothing.com) :crossx:
Deano...
I will definitely give Eliminator credit for APBA.. going back east and running an 8 1/2' wide boat against the big boys took some guts, but I don't think they were a serious contender in that realm... neither would an 8 1/2' wide DCB for that matter so you know I'm not ragging eliminator here... as far as POPRA is concerned I just don't consider the majority of eliminator's wins to be a big accomplishment.. when they are the only manufacturer in the race in thier class I just don't think it eventful to win...F-1 on the other hand is some real racing and my hats off to Lavey and the success they have achieved and deserve.

[Domn8er]

I priced both, the F-29 and Daytona 28 at the LA boat show earlier this year. Boat show special went to Eliminator $159,948 OTD and DCB was $185,283 plus tax and winter build. DCB price did include stand off boxes which is a nice upgrade. I didn't know you could go and negotiate (sp). Personal preference would be DCB but there is a $28k difference if you take off the stand off boxes on the DCB. I still have not rode in either one. I was suppose to go for a ride with Brian a couple weeks ago but started a new job and didn't get a chance to meet up.

[mbrown2]

I priced both, the F-29 and Daytona 28 at the LA boat show earlier this year. Boat show special went to Eliminator $159,948 OTD and DCB was $185,283 plus tax and winter build. DCB price did include stand off boxes which is a nice upgrade. I didn't know you could go and negotiate (sp). Personal preference would be DCB but there is a $28k difference if you take off the stand off boxes on the DCB. I still have not rode in either one. I was suppose to go for a ride with Brian a couple weeks ago but started a new job and didn't get a chance to meet up.
Start the negotiation with telling them that price diff and there is no friggen way you are going to pay it; considering everything is apples to apples sans the stand-off boxes...at least you are being flat out honest with them at that point...

[andy01]

You know I had a thought last night................
Why does it seem DCB is always right behind Eliminator. Like in 2002 was it when the 26 Daytona came out, shortly after the F series in the 26 came out. Eliminator did the fiberglass inner liner for the cockpit area, dcb came out with it six months later. Then the carbon series. Eliminator annouces they will be doing carbon fiber lay ups, a week later DCB does the same. Now what is it? Is it that Eliminator is that cutting edge and DCB just can't come up with it on thier own or is it that DCB has all of the ideas ahead of time but figures f**k it I won't put any of these things on the boat until I have to. A penny saved is a penny earned................
Andy

[TOBTEK]

You know I had a thought last night................
Why does it seem DCB is always right behind Eliminator. Like in 2002 was it when the 26 Daytona came out, shortly after the F series in the 26 came out. Eliminator did the fiberglass inner liner for the cockpit area, dcb came out with it six months later. Then the carbon series. Eliminator annouces they will be doing carbon fiber lay ups, a week later DCB does the same. Now what is it? Is it that Eliminator is that cutting edge and DCB just can't come up with it on thier own or is it that DCB has all of the ideas ahead of time but figures f**k it I won't put any of these things on the boat until I have to. A penny saved is a penny earned................
Andy
im NOT a boat historian....BUT, I looked at a 2000 MACH22 when I was shopping ( or tire kicking depending on who you talk with :() and it was a complete CARBON FIBER lay-up. This "new" carbon thing ISN'T new....its just simple marketing! ....period
Charley, did you start this because your not getting enough sleep these days?? :)

[andy01]

and it was a complete CARBON FIBER lay-up. Charley, did you start this because your not getting enough sleep these days?? :)
"complete carbon lay up" now we all know carbon fiber is nothing new to boating, Ultra has done some Carbon Fiber work in a 19' I saw a couple years back. Dave did one boat a couple years back. When I ordered my Mach 26 he didn't ask me if I wanted any cevlar or carbon fiber lay up. Eliminator I believe offers vacum bagging as well now, that will only make thier boats lighter, faster and stronger. When is Dave finally going to step up to the plate and get with times or is he going to hand lay up with air pockets and extra wieght for ever?
Charley started this because this place has been boring as hell lately............

[hot_diggity_dog]

You know I had a thought last night................
Why does it seem DCB is always right behind Eliminator. Like in 2002 was it when the 26 Daytona came out, shortly after the F series in the 26 came out. Eliminator did the fiberglass inner liner for the cockpit area, dcb came out with it six months later. Then the carbon series. Eliminator annouces they will be doing carbon fiber lay ups, a week later DCB does the same. Now what is it? Is it that Eliminator is that cutting edge and DCB just can't come up with it on thier own or is it that DCB has all of the ideas ahead of time but figures f**k it I won't put any of these things on the boat until I have to. A penny saved is a penny earned................
Andy
Correct me if I'm wrong here, :confused: but didn't DCB start by custom rigging Eliminator hulls? :confused:
HDD

[unleashed]

Deano...
I will definitely give Eliminator credit for APBA.. going back east and running an 8 1/2' wide boat against the big boys took some guts, but I don't think they were a serious contender in that realm... neither would an 8 1/2' wide DCB for that matter so you know I'm not ragging eliminator here... as far as POPRA is concerned I just don't consider the majority of eliminator's wins to be a big accomplishment.. when they are the only manufacturer in the race in thier class I just don't think it eventful to win...F-1 on the other hand is some real racing and my hats off to Lavey and the success they have achieved and deserve.
Goodmorning Charley....Thanks for bringing some excitement back to C & T. Sounds like the no sex, having a baby, no boat, hard working summer is getting to you. Hey it looks like Im out for LOTO so I will be around next week. We should do breakfast at the offshore races and perhaps the party at SCOPE Saturday night. I guess I'll be dipping the ole Force in the Ocean Saturday for the poker run so wish me luck...gonna make sure the "Offshore" fits. :D
By the way I still consider DCB and Eliminator right about even with the slight edge to Eliminator cause they sac up and actually race there shiat! On another note....they both keep other mfg's on there toes and it only makes the West Coast industry that much better. Congrats to both companies for there success and may the FORCE be with you! :D
Deano
Unleashedclothing (http://www.unleashedclothing.com) :devil:

[THOR]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, :confused: but didn't DCB start by custom rigging Eliminator hulls? :confused:
HDD
:idea: :D

[Jordy]

Sounds like the no sex, having a baby, no boat, hard working summer is getting to you.
Snap. :D :D :D

[andy01]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, :confused: but didn't DCB start by custom rigging Eliminator hulls? :confused:
HDD
Yes, and I believe they started by doing all of the outboard Daytonas.

[Charley]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, :confused: but didn't DCB start by custom rigging Eliminator hulls? :confused:
HDD
Oh let me guess Bob Leach didn't start anywhere, he invented everything and owes no dues to anyone teaching him some of what he knows.... such a dead dog, stop beating on it and focus on your own manhoods for the future beating :p ... absolutely Dave did get his start via eliminator, and he very much respects Bob Leach....that start, knowledge and experience definitely means something but the real question is what are they up to today?? Deano actually nailed it... I guarantee if DCB did not exist you wouldn't see 1/2 the improvements we have seen from eliminator over the last 3 years.... styling, rigging etc.......on the other hand I guarantee those improvements have driven DCB to new levels too... I can't speak for eliminator's owner but I have a little personal insight with DCB and Dave gets his ideas and drive from alot of places, magazines, other manufacturers, other industries...Dave had seen some of the cool interiors MTI was offering and was considering doing something like it. I would like to think when I told him how bad the seats in Andy's boat looked, and how bad the seats in the new spectre32 looked, maybe it helped him to finally pull the trigger and he made "a bitchen high tech racing seat config" available on his 32(one of those dozen upgrades I was talking about in an earlier post)
Evolution is great and when the manufacturers got to compete head to head guess who wins.. US! by the way
KOOL AID does a boater good

[Havasu Hangin']

DCB vs Eliminator...
...is there really a winner? :idea:

[andy01]

Oh let me guess Bob Leach didn't start anywhere, he invented everything and owes no dues to anyone teaching him some of what he knows.... such a dead dog, stop beating on it and focus on your own manhoods for the future beating :p ... absolutely Dave did get his start via eliminator, and he very much respects Bob Leach....that start, knowledge and experience definitely means something but the real question is what are they up to today?? Deano actually nailed it... I guarantee if DCB did not exist you wouldn't see 1/2 the improvements we have seen from eliminator over the last 3 years.... styling, rigging etc.......on the other hand I guarantee those improvements have driven DCB to new levels too... I can't speak for eliminator's owner but I have a little personal insight with DCB and Dave gets his ideas and drive from alot of places, magazines, other manufacturers, other industries...Dave had seen some of the cool interiors MTI was offering and was considering doing something like it. I would like to think when I told him how bad the seats in Andy's boat looked, and how bad the seats in the new spectre32 looked, maybe it helped him to finally pull the trigger and he made "a bitchen high tech racing seat config" available on his 32(one of those dozen upgrades I was talking about in an earlier post)
Evolution is great and when the manufacturers got to compete head to head guess who wins.. US! by the way
KOOL AID does a boater good
Damn Charlie, that is one of the most truthful and best wrote post I have ever read. Man I didn't know ya had it in ya, (j/k) you been saving that one.... Good post man! Real good!

[andy01]

DCB vs Eliminator...
...is there really a winner? :idea:
Go back to bed........

[THOR]

I personally always like to hear manufacturers backpeddle/explain why their product that is set up identical to the competition is worth 20% more. Riggin? Gel? What exactly is it when the motor and drive package is the same for two equal size boats?

[mbrown2]

Andy01,
Up above you mention Eliminator with the Carbon Series started the carbon layup stuff?...I don't think the Carbon Series includes Carbon Layup...just carbon in layed accents; nothing that changes the strength or lightness of the hull. Both makers have done in the past Carbon layup's and they were not on an option sheet; you needed to ask for it.
Funny also someone mentioned Dave got his start rigging Eliminators...I find it ironic on how an Eliminator employee got away and raised the bar on rigging boats, and now 10+ years later it appears Eliminator had to hire a former DCB employee to raise the level of their own rigging.....plus if the retail price is so close, why and the hell do you have to order the Carbon Series to get a show quality rigged boat...
But Brandie's still hot.... :mix: :):)

[UnionJack]

[QUOTE=Charley]Hmmm I ran 118 in Dave's 525 powered 29' .... QUOTE]
I saw 121 in dave's 29, me... him... and some other dude

[revndave]

Jets RULE!!!!

[Froggystyle]

I am going to stay well clear of the argument here for obvious reasons, but I just want to clear up a few facts about a "carbon" layup and how it is currently being used in boats today.
Carbon fiber is a re-inforcement. It has, when properly laminated, a higher strength per pound rating than the common "E" glass or the primarily aerospace "S" glass. It is not lighter than "E" glass. In fact, it is weighed and described in exactly the same terms during a lamination schedule. It is just given a slightly higher strength rating when used in an engineering program. Additionally, it holds the same amount of resin as a comparable "E" glass.
Carbon is a material that is best used to solve a specific problem... weight. If you have gotten as much resin out of your material as you can, and have optimized your laminate schedule, increased your core size, decreased the amount of re-inforcements (glass layers) to where you are just strong enough to do the job and you find out you are too heavy... now is the time to switch to carbon. It is about triple the cost of "E" glass, less available and it is not available in mat currently. It is also UV unstable, and has some serious issues with durability. It also conducts electricity like nothing short of a copper cable, so you will have electroysis problems when you use it for anything you plan on bolting anything metal through. It is not very applicable in the boat industry of today.
When all you do is substitute "carbon fiber" for a standard glass laminate, all you do is turn the inside of your boat black. This is especially true when you are talking about using a hand-lamination or hand laminated and vacuum bagged.
Fiber volume is a term used to describe the ratio of the non-structural resin to re-inforcements. The very best ratio is 90% fiber, or 10% resin.
Standard lamination techniques yield a fiber volume of around 30-35%. This means that 65-70% of the boat's structure is resin. Resin is non-structural for the most part, but that is another subject for another thread. If you vacuum bag the part after lamination, you will yield a part that can be as high as 40% fiber. Still 60% resin.
Resin infusion yields about a 65-70% fiber volume in most cases. We are seeing anything from 67-72% after our destructive testing of samples from the first boat.
The very best way to achieve a high fiber volume is to use a pre-impregnated sheet of glass or carbon, vacuum form and then put into an autoclave for 4 hours. This is very complex, and as you can imagine cost prohibitive in boats today.
When boat builders are using the latter method of construction and are still to heavy for the job at hand... that is when carbon should be brought into play. Otherwise it has all of the benefit to a client of a titanium stringer washer. Cute, but a huge waste of resources and money.
That said, we are trying some components with a carbon fiber, infused layup. The front ramp is a simple enough piece, and carbon allowed us to drop down to only one layer of re-inforcement on the outside of it (vice two glass layers), core and one inner layer. The use of carbon in this instance is getting us a part that was 37 pounds and is now 34. Plus, it looks cool.
Also prevalent today is the use of black fiberglass instead of carbon. Strangely, it is a far better choice than carbon for a lot of the stuff people would want to use it for being less UV unstable, less conductive and far cheaper than the real carbon.
Kevlar is a different story altogether. It is a stronger than glass, but not necessarily in ways that we need it to be, and certainly not significant when laminated in the standard method. Kevlar is traditionally marketed for increased strength though, not a weight savings.
If used as the solution to a problem, the more exotic materials can certainly add a lot to our industry. Unfortunately, most applications are making a mockery of the technology more than solving problems.
Bottom line, if someone tries to sell you carbon fiber in something, take some time to figure out what road led them to it as a solution. Odds are really good that it will be that they get more money for it, and people will pay it based on perceived value.
I'm not a composites engineer... I just stayed in a Holiday Inn express last night... ;)

[UnionJack]

I am going to stay well clear of the argument here for obvious reasons, but I just want to clear up a few facts about a "carbon" layup and how it is currently being used in boats today.
Carbon fiber is a re-inforcement. It has, when properly laminated, a higher strength per pound rating than the common "E" glass or the primarily aerospace "S" glass. It is not lighter than "E" glass. In fact, it is weighed and described in exactly the same terms during a lamination schedule. It is just given a slightly higher strength rating when used in an engineering program. Additionally, it holds the same amount of resin as a comparable "E" glass.
Carbon is a material that is best used to solve a specific problem... weight. If you have gotten as much resin out of your material as you can, and have optimized your laminate schedule, increased your core size, decreased the amount of re-inforcements (glass layers) to where you are just strong enough to do the job and you find out you are too heavy... now is the time to switch to carbon. It is about triple the cost of "E" glass, less available and it is not available in mat currently. It is also UV unstable, and has some serious issues with durability. It also conducts electricity like nothing short of a copper cable, so you will have electroysis problems when you use it for anything you plan on bolting anything metal through. It is not very applicable in the boat industry of today.
When all you do is substitute "carbon fiber" for a standard glass laminate, all you do is turn the inside of your boat black. This is especially true when you are talking about using a hand-lamination or hand laminated and vacuum bagged.
Fiber volume is a term used to describe the ratio of the non-structural resin to re-inforcements. The very best ratio is 90% fiber, or 10% resin.
Standard lamination techniques yield a fiber volume of around 30-35%. This means that 65-70% of the boat's structure is resin. Resin is non-structural for the most part, but that is another subject for another thread. If you vacuum bag the part after lamination, you will yield a part that can be as high as 40% fiber. Still 60% resin.
Resin infusion yields about a 65-70% fiber volume in most cases. We are seeing anything from 67-72% after our destructive testing of samples from the first boat.
The very best way to achieve a high fiber volume is to use a pre-impregnated sheet of glass or carbon, vacuum form and then put into an autoclave for 4 hours. This is very complex, and as you can imagine cost prohibitive in boats today.
When boat builders are using the latter method of construction and are still to heavy for the job at hand... that is when carbon should be brought into play. Otherwise it has all of the benefit to a client of a titanium stringer washer. Cute, but a huge waste of resources and money.
That said, we are trying some components with a carbon fiber, infused layup. The front ramp is a simple enough piece, and carbon allowed us to drop down to only one layer of re-inforcement on the outside of it (vice two glass layers), core and one inner layer. The use of carbon in this instance is getting us a part that was 37 pounds and is now 34. Plus, it looks cool.
Also prevalent today is the use of black fiberglass instead of carbon. Strangely, it is a far better choice than carbon for a lot of the stuff people would want to use it for being less UV unstable, less conductive and far cheaper than the real carbon.
Kevlar is a different story altogether. It is a stronger than glass, but not neccisarily in ways that we need it to be, and certainly not significant when laminated in the standard method. Kevlar is traditionally marketed for increased strength though, not a weight savings.
Bottom line, if someone tries to sell you carbon fiber in something, take some time to figure out what road led them to it as a solution. Odds are really good that it will be that they get more money for it, and people will pay it based on perceived value.
I'm not a composites engineer... I just stayed in a Holiday Inn express last night... ;)
Awesome... Maybe I sould stay at the HIE

[Froggystyle]

Awesome... Maybe I sould stay at the HIE
It helps... ;)

[UnionJack]

My 29 is on the way....

[Charley]

I personally always like to hear manufacturers backpeddle/explain why their product that is set up identical to the competition is worth 20% more. Riggin? Gel? What exactly is it when the motor and drive package is the same for two equal size boats?
Well since the 29 DCB is probably a closer comparison to a 30 Daytona than it is a 28 Daytona... why exactly is the 30' Daytona 20k more with far less options?? I thought you were an eliminator guy Thor ;)

[Boatlesss]

Well since the 29 DCB is probably a closer comparison to a 30 Daytona than it is a 28 Daytona... why exactly is the 30' Daytona 20k more with far less options?? I thought you were an eliminator guy Thor ;)
Very true, it looks as though the 29 DCB and the 30' Eliminator are in deed the same boat with a different deck.
Wonder who designed each boat?

[THOR]

Well since the 29 DCB is probably a closer comparison to a 30 Daytona than it is a 28 Daytona... why exactly is the 30' Daytona 20k more with far less options?? I thought you were an eliminator guy Thor ;)
"were" is the operative word there. I shopped when buying my Ultra and didnt find much that compared with gel, interior or speed.
Charley, when it comes to larger boats I am a tad out of the loop that is why I wanted to know why the difference in pricing and why tightening up some additional wiring would cost another 20K more. I can understand if you are buying a production boat where rigging is shady, but with the quality of custom boat manufacturers these days the zip tie argument doesnt hold much water. I am stirring the pot here, but just cuz I really want to know what you get for an extra few thousand dollars with equal motor/drives.

[Froggystyle]

"were" is the operative word there. I shopped when buying my Ultra and didnt find much that compared with gel, interior or speed.
Charley, when it comes to larger boats I am a tad out of the loop that is why I wanted to know why the difference in pricing and why tightening up some additional wiring would cost another 20K more. I can understand if you are buying a production boat where rigging is shady, but with the quality of custom boat manufacturers these days the zip tie argument doesnt hold much water. I am stirring the pot here, but just cuz I really want to know what you get for an extra few thousand dollars with equal motor/drives.
I can give you a couple ideas of why you would pay more...
There is a lot of stuff that costs a lot of money that you don't see. And they are little things. Through bolting for example. And not just where it is easy, but where it is hard. It is so important to the level of quality on a boat that you are going to be hard pressed to put a price on it. I can tell you personally that it adds a ton of time and money to building the boat. Quality of hardware. Is the top quality stuff used just in the visible areas, or is the same attention to detail prevalent throughout the boat? Is the underside of the dash neatly rigged, but pull a side panel and it goes to hell, or did the attention to detail flow through the boat, both seen and unseen? Are the bolts standard looking? Are they all polished? Are they washered properly? How did the boat get laminated? This is huge, though there is not very much difference between the two being discussed, it is a concern when you step away from these two and start looking a little down the food chain. Little things, like polyester resin in the skin coat. Vinylester isn't just more expensive, it is tougher to laminate, but it will prevent blistering of the gel 20 years from now. Types of core material... American made glass vs. imported, the best cables compared to adequate, all stainless construction. I can tell you for a solid fact that one of the companies being discussed uses drywall screws to assemble the interiors, which should last nicely... :confused:
When you set out to top the charts in all aspects, you set a high bar for others. If you are a paper tiger, someone will come along and use your mark for a target. Dave has certainly one-upped Eliminator at every turn, and he has been doing it for years. With his own hardware, great attention to detail and good crew, he will continue to do it because it is a mindset that is part of his company.
There are going to be some changes afoot in the industry soon. Better construction methods, far lighter boats that are more expensive by a lot to build. Some companies will rise to the challenge, deliver boats with the new technology and will get even more for them and with great reason. Dave will likely be on that side of the coin. I sense that the Eliminator team is reactionary when it comes to adopting change. and with every opportunity to embrace technology for years, they have shunned it.
Such is life. If I were not building my own boat, my list would be short. DCB or MTI. They both get it.

[FREIND OF AA AND TA]

http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1721newfront.jpg
I love this thread! All I have to say I got my pig at 1/2 the price. I guess Eliminators don't hold the value.
Thank God!! :D

[roln 20s]

This thread is real good...and I'm surprised :) I guess I was under-estimating Charley's topic starting ability :D
My opinion--the 28 doesn't compare to the DCB 29 and Elim 30--this is the comparison point for $. I'm not exactly sure how many boats Eliminator makes a year now (maybe 200-300) while I was told that DCB made 30 last year. I'll pay extra money just to know that I get that extra attention to detail. I'm not saying you don't get that at Elim, but its definitely guaranteed at shops like DCB, Howard, Schiada, etc. I've talked to Tony @ Elim and Charley @ DCB (notice how I put Charley at DCB :) :D ) and it truely amazes me what you can get price wise. Charley didn't even need to start this thread for me to know, but I'm glad he did.
Back to page one on Brian's post-- it does sound like a lot of money for Fiberglass, but I too understand their overhead, insurance, employ benefits, and R&D is just through the roof. I do think all boats are overpriced, but as Charley said--its because its an asking price and that's what people are willing to pay. I've waiting the past 3 years for prices to dip...but that just isn't happening. To each his own on boat and price, but this is just another great thread to remind people to personally 'shop around' if you are in the market.
Roln 20s

[THOR]

Hey Howard slut, arent you shopping for a particular brand now? Refresh my memory.
THOR <--- still stirring
Froggy,
thanks for the tips. I am a little more enlightened now. I dont build boats and dont know exactly what is done. I have a clue, but dont know the exacts. Was your Ultra not up to your standards? Just curious.

[Magic34]

I've waiting the past 3 years for prices to dip...but that just isn't happening. To each his own on boat and price, but this is just another great thread to remind people to personally 'shop around' if you are in the market.
Roln 20s
Patrick, 3 years ago was a great time to be a buyer. Now it is out of control what they are getting for boats this size, and we are willing to pay it. The past 18 months have led to major price jumps across the boards with most builders.

[Charley]

Well I must say, including all the shit stirring(THOR :D ) this has become a reasonably informative/entertaining thread.... Wes states some very valid points re attention to detail and I am continually impressed by the levels he seems to be executing his offering... I would actually love a Ride in a Trident someday, although I could never own a Jet cause they both suck and blow! :supp:
Roln20's you need to wheel the deal and get yourself a DCB ;)

[phebus]

People talk about a "bubble" in the housing market, but I wonder how long the boat industry is going to be able to continue the sales numbers, and the price increases?

[Jbb]

I can give you a couple ideas of why you would pay more...
There is a lot of stuff that costs a lot of money that you don't see. And they are little things. Through bolting for example. And not just where it is easy, but where it is hard. It is so important to the level of quality on a boat that you are going to be hard pressed to put a price on it. I can tell you personally that it adds a ton of time and money to building the boat. Quality of hardware. Is the top quality stuff used just in the visible areas, or is the same attention to detail prevalent throughout the boat? Is the underside of the dash neatly rigged, but pull a side panel and it goes to hell, or did the attention to detail flow through the boat, both seen and unseen? Are the bolts standard looking? Are they all polished? Are they washered properly? How did the boat get laminated? This is huge, though there is not very much difference between the two being discussed, it is a concern when you step away from these two and start looking a little down the food chain. Little things, like polyester resin in the skin coat. Vinylester isn't just more expensive, it is tougher to laminate, but it will prevent blistering of the gel 20 years from now. Types of core material... American made glass vs. imported, the best cables compared to adequate, all stainless construction. I can tell you for a solid fact that one of the companies being discussed uses drywall screws to assemble the interiors, which should last nicely... :confused:
When you set out to top the charts in all aspects, you set a high bar for others. If you are a paper tiger, someone will come along and use your mark for a target. Dave has certainly one-upped Eliminator at every turn, and he has been doing it for years. With his own hardware, great attention to detail and good crew, he will continue to do it because it is a mindset that is part of his company.
There are going to be some changes afoot in the industry soon. Better construction methods, far lighter boats that are more expensive by a lot to build. Some companies will rise to the challenge, deliver boats with the new technology and will get even more for them and with great reason. Dave will likely be on that side of the coin. I sense that the Eliminator team is reactionary when it comes to adopting change. and with every opportunity to embrace technology for years, they have shunned it.
Such is life. If I were not building my own boat, my list would be short. DCB or MTI. They both get it.
Pretty articulate...for a mid level functionary.......and every word true.... :D

[unleashed]

People talk about a "bubble" in the housing market, but I wonder how long the boat industry is going to be able to continue the sales numbers, and the price increases?
I dont think it will be much longer! Shipping costs, fuel costs, building material cost...I think boats are going to be more expensive with less buyers. I mean even Jet boats are going to be expensive...just ask Wes! :D
Deano
Unleashedclothing (http://www.unleashedclothing.com)

[Racer277]

... as far as POPRA is concerned I just don't consider the majority of eliminator's wins to be a big accomplishment.. when they are the only manufacturer in the race in thier class I just don't think it eventful to win....
You’re kidding right.
DCB could have their own racing class too. But to do that, they would have to commit to building a significant number of similar boats, having spares in stock, finding buyers who are willing to race their boats across the country, and backing a promoter of the sport enough to schedule the class. No big accomplishment right?
If not, why the 'DCB Racing' moniker?
Without racing their boats, it’s like any ‘prerunner’ you see around town, it may be well built, fast, and have really cool stickers, but it just hasn’t been there or done that.
I see so many magazine comparisons brought up, but racing is the true measure, where else is every aspect of the boat measured?
My pov is from an outsider to the industry, and the manufacturers concerned. But, aren’t you comparing apples and oranges? Unless you live (relatively speaking) next door to both companies (as some of us do), you are comparing a world wide dealer supported product to a locally manufactured and sold product. I know that many DCB owners pick up their boats at the LA Boat show, but I would bet that Eliminator sells more boats outside of the US every year than DCB manufactures. What would be the cost of owning each of these boats in Europe for instance? Does DCB have dealers in Europe/Asia/Australia for warranty work, or do you bring it back to San Diego? Do you think if you tell someone in Australia that DCB is the world’s best, they’ll have ever heard of them?

[Froggystyle]

Froggy,
thanks for the tips. I am a little more enlightened now. I dont build boats and dont know exactly what is done. I have a clue, but dont know the exacts. Was your Ultra not up to your standards? Just curious.
Let's just say there are several ways to save money in boatbuilding. Manufacturers that have a tough time making ends meet financially tend to make them meet in places you cant see in the boat.
I went to Ultra when I bought my boat for a variety of reasons. Mostly gelcoat and that it is a jet. I had my blown Daytona still, and Audrey hated it. I had just totally re-rigged it, and I really liked the look of the "new" 21 XS hard deck that Ultra had just tooled. I had come from Dave's, who told me flat out he could not build a jetboat. Well, I wanted a jet, so there I was... Additionally, John thought he could do my wild gelcoat design, so they had my business. Mine was either the first or second hard deck, I can't remember.
My Ultra had a lot of problems when I first got it. It is all water under the bridge now, and I think you will find that Clownpuncher, the new owner of OTR regards it as exceptionally rigged now. So much so that Paul Phaff commented "this isn't like any Ultra I have ever seen..." or something. I had to re-rig most of the electrical, and I did the entire stereo install myself during construction. I also had to help build the interior at D&S over the course of two days since they couldn't seem to get it right. I'm sure everyone was very stoked with the customer being all up in it and in their way ;)
Ultra is one of the best in the class of boat they are in. The gelcoat is amazing, and the rigging is fine. Additionally, while they don't always get everything right, they go pretty far out of their way for customers when the do screw up to get it back to acceptable. That means something. Nothing makes up for lost summers and stuff, but not paying for the repairs goes a long way.

[cyclone]

People talk about a "bubble" in the housing market, but I wonder how long the boat industry is going to be able to continue the sales numbers, and the price increases?
As long as there are finance companies with financial backers willing hand out 35 year boat loans to damn near anyone with reasonably decent credit, i doubt the selling price of boats will keep ome people from pulling the trigger. There will always be people who feel the need to keep up with the jones' and step up to bigger, more expensive boats.
The few forseeable detractors to this will be law enforcement crack downs on our favorite bodies of water, increasingly high insurance premiums, the skyrocketing price of fuel and the possibility that the west coast real estate market may indeed flatten out.

[Jordy]

It helps... ;)
Dammit Wes,
That's way too many facts for a thread like this. :hammerhea
Jordy :D

[Froggystyle]

Dammit Wes,
That's way too many facts for a thread like this. :hammerhea
Jordy :D
Sorry. I'll burn my thinking cap.

[DrewDown]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, :confused: but didn't DCB start by custom rigging Eliminator hulls? :confused:
HDD
I'm going to have to correct you here, DCB started by installing the stereos. :jawdrop:

[DrewDown]

Deano...
I will definitely give Eliminator credit for APBA.. going back east and running an 8 1/2' wide boat against the big boys took some guts, but I don't think they were a serious contender in that realm... neither would an 8 1/2' wide DCB for that matter so you know I'm not ragging eliminator here... as far as POPRA is concerned I just don't consider the majority of eliminator's wins to be a big accomplishment.. when they are the only manufacturer in the race in thier class I just don't think it eventful to win...F-1 on the other hand is some real racing and my hats off to Lavey and the success they have achieved and deserve.
Charley, I think you are not giving them nearly enough credit for getting out there and racing. Takes alot of time, effort and money. But I see your brain washed point of veiw.

[mbrown2]

I'm going to have to correct you here, DCB started by installing the stereos. :jawdrop:
Yeah, they use to rig Skaters too....one of the only West Coast dealers at the time and probably put out some of the nicer rigged Skaters around....better then some of the crap I have seen come of the Michigan...:):)

[DrewDown]

Yeah, they use to rig Skaters too....one of the only West Coast dealers at the time and probably put out some of the nicer rigged Skaters around....better then some of the crap I have seen come of the Michigan...:):)
I thoght it was a sin to put a stereo in a skater?

[mbrown2]

Charley, I think you are not giving them nearly enough credit for getting out there and racing. Takes alot of time, effort and money. But I see your brain washed point of veiw.
I give them credit; they deserve it!....classes smasses...they are out there racing, and I think DCB needs to get on the ball and race some boats.....the name takes on an Oxymoron conotation without officially racing the boats no two ways about...

[mbrown2]

I thoght it was a sin to put a stereo in a skater?
Then there must be a lot of sinners out there driving Skaters...what god you praying to?

[DrewDown]

MBROWN= You forgot "Brandies hot" at the end of both of those posts.

[mbrown2]

MBROWN= You forgot "Brandies hot" at the end of both of those posts.
Maybe I should just put it in the sig and call it good. :)

[BADBLOWN572]

I too have looked at comparing the Eliminator and the DCB. Both boats, in my opinion, run great with minimal differences in handling. I would say that neither boat really has an "edge" on the other. The thing is that I would go with a DCB in a heartbeat over an Eliminator. I am not bashing Eliminator what so ever, but I would rather pay an additional (if it was additional) $20k for the DCB over the Eliminator.
Coming from within the industry, I can look at a DCB and there really is nothing that I would do differently. That is hard to do. Normally I can pick apart a boat in a heartbeat, but everything on the DCB's is right on. For example, if you look at any DCB their engine compartment is completely polished. It is not on the Eliminator. I believe that Eliminator is still using the splatter painting method. I can tell you that most manufacturers offer that as an option and it is standard on the DCB. Trust me, it is a very expensive option too because it is very labor intensive. Stock versus option.
I agree with Charley, if you equip both boats side by side, the DCB will definitely be the best value for the dollar. Every person is their own judge on what the best value is. I am with Wes, if I were building a boat, there would be a very short list and DCB would be on it.

[Jrocket]

I give them credit; they deserve it!....classes smasses...they are out there racing, and I think DCB needs to get on the ball and race some boats.....the name takes on an Oxymoron conotation without officially racing the boats no two ways about...
Brown!!!! big words remember.... :(

[Jrocket]

DD,
You really hate the DCB's or what?

[Jordy]

MBROWN= You forgot "Brandies hot" at the end of both of those posts.
Brandie is hot. DCB has Dave's hair and zip ties. Advantage Eliminator. :D :D :D

[Jrocket]

Brandie is hot. DCB has Dave's hair and zip ties. Advantage Eliminator. :D :D :D
Spectre has the hops. :D

[MONEYFURNOTHIN]

If i was Bob Leach reading this i might be a little bummed that the biggest argument for my boat company is "Brandy is hot", but then again i ride for DCB

[Jordy]

Spectre has the hops. :D
Only in bad air. Not in Lake Pacific. Then again, I guess we Spectre guys don't have anyting going for us. We don't have Dave's hair. We don't have zip ties. We don't have Kool-aid. We don't have Brandie. We're pretty much screwed. :( :( :(

[Havasu Hangin']

Spectre has the hops. :D
Doesn't Spectre have "Hollywood" Three Days Only? :eek:

[Jrocket]

Only in bad air. Not in Lake Pacific. Then again, I guess we Spectre guys don't have anyting going for us. We don't have Dave's hair. We don't have zip ties. We don't have Kool-aid. We don't have Brandie. We're pretty much screwed. :( :( :(
And you live along ways from the big blue last time I heard.
Wheres the pics of Brandie?

[Jrocket]

Doesn't Spectre have "Hollywood" Three Days Only? :eek:
Dont forget "Anus Andy" :D

[DrewDown]

DD,
You really hate the DCB's or what?
Did I say anything negative about DCB's?

[Froggystyle]

Coming from within the industry, I can look at a DCB and there really is nothing that I would do differently.
OK, you had me up until there. Both companies have a TON of legitimate, timely improvements to implement before I will go anywhere near that statement. That being said, Dave is doing as good a job as any on the West Coast, but I have seen some Cigarettes and MTI's that will give the "Worlds Best" moniker a subtitle of "West Coast Custom". There is always a bigger fish, and Dave can feel confident that nobody in his price range is currently doing a better job than he is. Everything I have seen nicer from Outerlimits, MTI or Cigarette is nearly $750,000. But they are a lot nicer, and a whole pile more advanced. Dave handily dominates Eliminator in my opinion, but he has a whole mountain ahead of him before he runs out of stuff I wouldn't do differently.
I am with Wes, if I were building a boat, there would be a very short list and DCB would be on it.
I said if I WASN'T building a boat... ;) They would still be tops on my list of go-fasters though. When I do buy a 150+ boat, they will be on the list with MTI. I have another boat in mind for partying on.

[Jrocket]

Did I say anything negative about DCB's?
I was just asking?

[DrewDown]

I was just asking?
If it was between the two, 29 (possible 32) or under it would be a dcb. Ive said it many times, they are so focking clean and I think the lines are better. Dont tell Brandy though.

[Jrocket]

If it was between the two, 29 (possible 32) or under it would be a dcb. Ive said it many times, they are so focking clean and I think the lines are better. Dont tell Brandy though.
That really sucks.I had a entire list of things I was gonna bag on ya for too..
Any picks of Brandie?

[Jordy]

Doesn't Spectre have "Hollywood" Three Days Only? :eek:
I heard a rumor he's off at fat camp. :D :D :D
And you live along ways from the big blue last time I heard.
Only 2 hours further to Lake Pacific than it is to Havasu. My boat's on a trailer, not in the Perma-shop. ;) :D
Wheres the pics of Brandie?
My thoughts exactly. ;)

[mbrown2]

My boat's on a trailer, not in the Perma-shop. ;) :D
LMAO...

[Charley]

I see so many magazine comparisons brought up, but racing is the true measure, where else is every aspect of the boat measured?
I didn't want to say this but I guess I will now....when Eliminator raced vs the east Coast boats in APBA they never really faired very well, and quite honestly I would expect a DCB to get owned in the big blue when the competition has 25% more beam than they do too! so as far as eliminator getting measured by thier current racing accomplishments it might be better not to...... Maybe that's why Dave has not pushed to get into supercat-light... he knows his 9' wide offering couldn't truly compete in 4-6' swells with a 10-11' wide boat....Maybe DCB wants to offer something wider in the next 2 years that could give the east coast boys a run for thier money, in fact maybe DCB is even going to do it the right way and build a running plug... but you didn't hear that from me ;) ... now as far as popra I do give eliminator credit for showing up and racing..... but when it's a 1 or occasionally a 2 boat race and both are eliminators and an eliminator wins.... sorry the credit goes as deep as "thanks for showing up and supporting the sport" ... Now when the day comes that eliminator consistently spanks a skater or MTI all season long and wins a true points battle I will give up some serious credit, and it will be due!!... however, I'm sorry I'm not gonna blow smoke up anyones ass on winning a championship where one boat was all that was entered in thier class ALL SEASON LONG, I don't care how cute that butt is!

[Jordy]

I don't care how cute that butt is!
I didn't know you had feelings like that for Dave. :D :D :D

[Reaper1]

Charley - Didn't How Sweet it is do pretty good in Super Cat Light a few years back? :confused:

[Reaper1]

Wheres the pics of Brandie?
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/97buff.jpg

[Dave C]

Sorry Charlie, you're so full of shiat its coming out of your ears. Step away from the Diaper Genie! :rollside:
the 28 Daytona with two 496 HO's is $140,000 retail (no options). I know this because I can't afford anything more, otherwise I would consider buying an F29.
Yes you heard me right, I would buy an F29. The problem is, I can't afford it because my monthly day care costs almost as much as your annual Cat insurance. LOL :mad: :mad:
The F29 and 28 ICC (with stand offs) are comparable in length, maybe not girth, but the 28 ICC is about $30,000 less than the DCB.
On the options you are correct DCB gives you more BUT, lets look at their cost because they hardly make up the difference:
1) Stereo... varies, aftermarket $5-7k (I would NOT option this)
2) Gaffrig.... $2000 aftermarket (I would option these)
3) Dual Ram - $3000 aftermarket (Option this)
4) Controls - $1000 aftermarket (option this too)
YES IT DOES COME ON A EXTREME TRAILER at no extra charge and the 12V socket is standard now ;)
So with stand-off boxes I'm gonna be in this 28.5' boat, $150,000 with plenty of "options". Plus I'm gonna spec out as many options as I can comparable to a "base" F29, plus more and still pay ALOT less.
So I think the DCB overpriced moniker still stands. For those of us who can live without extra bolt on bling, I will save the $30,000.
Now I know you get special "Dave and Charlie Boats" pricing so we should be comparing those #'s . If you were right about the pricing, you have a point!
Ok.... I am so sick and tired of hearing the same misconception about how expensive DCB's are that I felt obligated to put the reality into black and white..... As most of you know DCB has a 29' canopied cat and Eliminator has both a 28' and 30' Canopied cat.... so I compared all 3 .... These prices were retail based and on a bone stock, twin 496HO model with a trailer. Interesting part is that the DCB comes with alot more in thier bone stock package... But
here is the Skinny, quoted all 3 Today
Eliminator Daytona 28 ICC $176,604
DCB F-29 $179,950
Eliminator Daytona 30 ICC $199,604
So based on retail relative pricing for
$3,347 more than a 28' ICC or $19,654 less than a 30' ICC you can have a DCB F-29 not to mention that the DCB comes with
1. A stereo(yes upgrade on eliminator)
2. Gaffrig Gauges(yes upgrade on eliminator)
3. Dual Ram Steering(yes upgrade on eliminator)
4. Latham Throttles and shifters (yes upgrade on eliminator)
+ I dont know if Eliminators come on a competitive trailer still or not but if they do the Extreme trailer that all DCB's sit on would be another distinct upgrade....I even think 12 V sockets come in the base models for free now ;)
I know alot of this boils down to what you like as far as lines on a boat and what flag you want to wave, but the whole DCB's are sooooo expensive myth needs to be "myth busted"..... I cant wait for eliminator lovers and owner's daughters ;) to strike a pose here and I hope this thread flames out of control for a few days.... but I feel confident Kool-Aid Lovers abroad will douse those mythful Flames with thier gigantic Kool Aid eminating hoses..... bring it on Kids :D .... Cats and Tunnels needs a little rumble! :devil: :devil:

[mbrown2]

Reap, that's hard on the eyes in the AM...plus, should'nt you be posting the pics of Ron Moyes that you have the wall ! :)

[Reaper1]

Reap, that's hard on the eyes in the AM...plus, should'nt you be posting the pics of Ron Moyes that you have the wall ! :)
That's Ron's wife! She handles Customer Service issues. :2purples:

[mbrown2]

That's Ron's wife! She handles Customer Service issues. :2purples:LMAO.....great comeback :) :rollside: :)

[Bella]

MBrown why such a hard on for Ron Moyes at magic?

[Reaper1]

MBrown why such a hard on for Ron Moyes at magic?
He was joking with me. I am a proud Magic owner. :)

[mbrown2]

MBrown why such a hard on for Ron Moyes at magic?
I don't ...just joking....; what's wrong got a case of the Monday's? :)

[Sandbar Mike]

Charley,
Is Dave giving you 5% off your next purchase for this post. Keep going bro, you'll be up to 15% by the time your 32 is ready. :D :D
Seriously though, is it true that DCB offers discount pricing if you join the ***boat forums? I heard this somewhere?/? ;) :D

[Dave C]

This is a quality post!
I've always asked these fawkers to give us some specific examples of quality differences. Both you and BB572 highlight a couple good ones.
Bolt on items, such as gauges, battery boxes, controls that are available for the more expensive DCB can be optioned on almost any boat so its pointless to argue about this stuff. Most of the hardware related to the motor comes from the motor builder so thats moot. A more expensive motor comes with better items, as it should! so a $40,000 Teaque motor is gonna look much better than a POS Merc 496HO.
An advantage to DCB is the polished engine compartment that comes standard but at a cost! It looks nice but given the choice I would NOT option this because all the gear would scratch it anyway.
Regarding your points:
1) Mine comes with SS through bolted hardware and the good washers, INTERIOR INCLUDED.
2) rigging behind the panels and engine compartment is neat and cushion clamped.
3) The same hardware extends to non visible areas with one exception (two side panels), which I had to change.
4) under dash could be cleaner but how anal-retentive is actually necessary?(BTW my Cougar was assembled by a pathological anal-retentive and was cleaner under the dash than any DCB I have ever seen)
I don't know about the the resin and core materials . Is there anyway to tell?
From what I am told and by what I read here, the newer E boats are built better than some of the older ones. Since this is my first new boat I don't really know for sure?
thanks
I can give you a couple ideas of why you would pay more...
There is a lot of stuff that costs a lot of money that you don't see. And they are little things. Through bolting for example. And not just where it is easy, but where it is hard. It is so important to the level of quality on a boat that you are going to be hard pressed to put a price on it. I can tell you personally that it adds a ton of time and money to building the boat. Quality of hardware. Is the top quality stuff used just in the visible areas, or is the same attention to detail prevalent throughout the boat? Is the underside of the dash neatly rigged, but pull a side panel and it goes to hell, or did the attention to detail flow through the boat, both seen and unseen? Are the bolts standard looking? Are they all polished? Are they washered properly? How did the boat get laminated? This is huge, though there is not very much difference between the two being discussed, it is a concern when you step away from these two and start looking a little down the food chain. Little things, like polyester resin in the skin coat. Vinylester isn't just more expensive, it is tougher to laminate, but it will prevent blistering of the gel 20 years from now. Types of core material... American made glass vs. imported, the best cables compared to adequate, all stainless construction. I can tell you for a solid fact that one of the companies being discussed uses drywall screws to assemble the interiors, which should last nicely... :confused:
When you set out to top the charts in all aspects, you set a high bar for others. If you are a paper tiger, someone will come along and use your mark for a target. Dave has certainly one-upped Eliminator at every turn, and he has been doing it for years. With his own hardware, great attention to detail and good crew, he will continue to do it because it is a mindset that is part of his company.
There are going to be some changes afoot in the industry soon. Better construction methods, far lighter boats that are more expensive by a lot to build. Some companies will rise to the challenge, deliver boats with the new technology and will get even more for them and with great reason. Dave will likely be on that side of the coin. I sense that the Eliminator team is reactionary when it comes to adopting change. and with every opportunity to embrace technology for years, they have shunned it.
Such is life. If I were not building my own boat, my list would be short. DCB or MTI. They both get it.

[Froggystyle]

This is a quality post!
I've always asked these fawkers to give us some specific examples of quality differences. Both you and BB572 highlight a couple good ones.
Bolt on items, such as gauges, battery boxes, controls that are available for the more expensive DCB can be optioned on almost any boat so its pointless to argue about this stuff. Most of the hardware related to the motor comes from the motor builder so thats moot. A more expensive motor comes with better items, as it should! so a $40,000 Teaque motor is gonna look much better than a POS Merc 496HO.
Agreed. That is why we came to grips with our motto... "Sharpening the cutting edge". In a world where ANY boat can come with the trick stuff you get out of a catalog, how do you separate yourself? You build something that works better than, and nobody else can get than the catalog items. Lots of proprietary stuff we do can't be purchased openly. Some can be copied, but trick is trick, and we have a lot of it for this exact reason.
An advantage to DCB is the polished engine compartment that comes standard but at a cost! It looks nice but given the choice I would NOT option this because all the gear would scratch it anyway.
One of the reasons that Dave and I don't offer that as an option, but standard is because it works so much better. Oil cleans up effortlessly, you can easily identify any leaks or whatnot, it is brighter for maintenance purposes and a lot more durable. Additionally, the epoxy coating prevents any of your solvents from attacking any of your laminates. The non-shiny gelcoat is very porous, and will allow solvents through it.
Regarding your points:
1) Mine comes with SS through bolted hardware and the good washers, INTERIOR INCLUDED.
2) rigging behind the panels and engine compartment is neat and cushion clamped.
3) The same hardware extends to non visible areas with one exception (two side panels), which I had to change.
4) under dash could be cleaner but how anal-retentive is actually necessary?(BTW my Cougar was assembled by a pathological anal-retentive and was cleaner under the dash than any DCB I have ever seen)
I don't know about the the resin and core materials . Is there anyway to tell?
1) No it doesn't. I can show you where it doesn't, but all of your starboard is held together by drywall screws. Gold irridited ones. Look in a cupholder or anything you can see the edge on and you will see that.
2/3) The mentality I am talking about for a total system extends behind side panels. If they are willing to short it there, you have to assume that anything not normally seen is shorted. Period.
4) The dashboard is where the rubber meets the road on rigging appearance and perceived quality. Eliminator knows this, Dave knows this and I know this. Dave and I are willing to put some extra time back there to show the level of quality off. It is an indicator of your best work, and it should be as good as the best stuff on your boat. This is what people will look at inevitably, and we need to be on our "A" game for sure.
If you can find a 1979 layup schedule for Eliminators (should be easy, everyone uses it... ;) ) you can tell what went into your boat. Balsa, resin, coremat and cloth. There are multiple layers of mat and coremat which is resin-heavy and the re-inforcements are generally layers upon layers of 1708 cloth which is a double-bias 17 ounce cloth with a 3/4 ounce mat stitched to the back. Nothing wrong with this, I use some of this stuff on my cupholders. This yields a 70%+ resin volume usually. These boats weigh approximately 7-9 pounds per square foot on the hullsides. Resin infusion, by way of example weighs about 1.6 per foot.
From what I am told and by what I read here, the newer E boats are built better than some of the older ones. Since this is my first new boat I don't really know for sure?
thanks
Credit this to Dave. I feel that Bob felt pretty solid on top of the pile when he stopped running the buisness everyday a while back, and basically went racing. Well, the family didn't quite pick up where he left off, and the quality, image and level of boat took a big dive in my opinon. He got back involved, and as a direct result from serious pressure from Dave... a relative newcomer compared to the usual suspects... he was forced to bring up the level to what Dave was now offering.
In my opinion, the west coast industry lapsed into a very, very comfortable groove. Hallett was for old people with class on Lake Powell and Mead, Nordic was for the same people who didn't want Halletts. Ultra/Advantage/Shockwave/Essex/Carrerra/Commander all made basically the same stuff with different embroidery and Eliminator was the one everyone knew. The rest all fell in somewhere else. Before everyone gets all pissy, I am generalizing and trying to be a little funny. Your boats are all great.
Up comes Lavey with new stuff, Ultra with kickin styling and the best gel, Howard with some very fast V's and Dave, who re-defined what the top rigging should look like. Old companies with new owners that greatly changed the shape of the scene. Eliminator lagged when the pressure got heavy, and IMO they are still playing catchup. Bottom line is, they are a lot better now than three years ago.
Building boats isn't about practicality. If that was the primary concern we would all own pontoon boats, which arguably are far better suited to the purpose of what we all basically do all day at the river. We want something more, and the people with this kind of money to spend on a boat want the best more than anything in particular. I can guarantee that is my mentality. Just ask the Snap-On guy who just talked me out of my hard-earned $8500 for a box it will take me a lifetime to fill. But, it is the best, and I can't sleep at night with the second best.
There are a lot of people like me. For everyone that wouldn't option the stereo we are putting in our boat I am reminded of why I did it. I want them all to be kick ass, my version of kick as more specifically. You can always not turn up a stereo, but once it is up all the way you are out of options. Same as engines.
If I run out of people who share my mentality, I will consider making things that I feel are mandatory in a boat of this caliber options. Until then, the only option left open to my clients is to out-do my spec'd parts. That hasn't happened yet.
There isn't any bad boats on the water today. The worst of the bunch are still more advanced than the best boats in the 70's. Most have a lot of power, are turn key and will do everything we want them to. Even base engines are more powerful than anything we ran in the early eighties, and I remember vividly stopping at the airport every time we went out for AV gas to go in our 455 Olds. It NEEDED it for the 400 or so horsepower it made. (While blowing oil everywhere, all the time BTW...) The differences are in the nuances, and how much all of those together are worth to you. I have personally partied with 5 naked playmates on a rented Bayliner. You don't need Bling's boat to do that. (Doesn't hurt) To really bag on any is impossible. The quality comes down to the company and the way it treats its customers, the looks and features of the boat and how they benefit you, and the feeling you get while driving it.
7 years ago I was driving a 1979 'Cuda (no name) with a pooped out 454. I had a blast with it and sold it to a freind who loved it for years. This is truly a great community, and all of the stuff we are talking about is why I love it.

[Magic34]

Wes, that was a good post.

[UnionJack]

Very good post

[RiverDave]

Interesting take on it Wes..
There isn't any bad boats on the water today. The worst of the bunch are still more advanced than the best boats in the 70's.
I gotta disagree with that section of it though (from the daycruiser side of things)
RD

[Racer277]

I have personally partied with 5 naked playmates on a rented Bayliner.
Damn, lost my train of thought right there....

[Jordy]

Damn, lost my train of thought right there....
Did you take some Dia pills this morning??? :D :D :D

[Kilrtoy]

Very Interesting :)

[Dave C]

Thanks. More good info!!
SOOOO the shiny coating in the engine compartment is an epoxy coating! I erroneously assumed it was gel coat. Thanks, thats good to know. (I was wondering why an outside rigger offered to do this) BTW does the epoxy coating scratch easily? I used it before but not under constant traffic like the boat gets.
#1) I'm lost? Where is this exactly? where the halves are joined? The joint is covered with glass. I didn't see any but maybe they are hidden. If they are not SS the ol magnet will find them ;)
#2/3) I have had the interior out of this boat twice and the wiring is buttoned up behind interior pieces.
#4) the dash needs some attention but its far from a rats nest, everything is clear and traceable. The Cougar was really nice because it was extremely neat (almost sterile) but it was just a show-piece.
You lost me on the construction but I get the yield. Also I know that SOB is heavy. 5500 lbs. fully loaded.
This is the nice thing about ordering Custom Boats, you can have it anyway you want it. Some guy may prefer to order his boat with every blinged out item cuz it makes him happy. IMO some of that bling is pointless.
Personally I just want a fast boat with a good looking gel coat, with a nice looking interior. Extra bling is useless to me.
For example, buying a motor from the manufacturer is TOTALLY AND UTTERLY USELESS TO ME. ;) Why, because I don't need one. Sterile engine compartments=useless to me cuz they are gonna get damaged on the motor changes. Warranties, those are for yuppies.
Am I like most boaters here, No, others need a motor, warranty and some nice looking bling in their boat to make them happy.
To each, their own
Additionally, the epoxy coating prevents any of your solvents from attacking any of your laminates. The non-shiny gelcoat is very porous, and will allow solvents through it.
1) No it doesn't. I can show you where it doesn't, but all of your starboard is held together by drywall screws. Gold irridited ones. Look in a cupholder or anything you can see the edge on and you will see that.
2/3) The mentality I am talking about for a total system extends behind side panels. If they are willing to short it there, you have to assume that anything not normally seen is shorted. Period.

[Jordy]

Personally I just want a fast boat with a good looking gel coat, with a nice looking interior.
So what are you looking at now??? :D :D :D
Jordy <----sorry Dave, I just couldn't resist. ;)

[Kilrtoy]

So what are you looking at now??? :D :D :D
Jordy <----sorry Dave, I just couldn't resist. ;)
What else
a D.C.B.

[Jordy]

What else
a D.C.B.
Why did I even have to ask. It all makes sense:
DCB-----> Dave C's Boat. :D

[Jrocket]

So what are you looking at now??? :D :D :D
Jordy <----sorry Dave, I just couldn't resist. ;)
Not an Eliminator thats for sure. :p

[Kilrtoy]

Why did I even have to ask. It all makes sense:
DCB-----> Dave C's Boat. :D
LOL,
:cool:

[Dave C]

Jordy...... Oh sure, get a second motor and you take stabs at us poor old one motor guys. :notam:
I already used that DaveC's Boat bit already...... LOL Besides I don't think I can qualify as Daves H's long lost brother because my hair isn't quite that nice!
Well a fast "stripped down" boat...yup, thats an eliminator... all that extra crap is just dead weight that just slows it down anyway. ;) :rollside:
In all seriousness, I am leaning towards the 28 ICC Daytona, no motors, set up for twins I/O's. Motors are probably gonna be DaveC specials. :notam: NO MORE F-ING MERC MOTORS FOR ME!!!!!!
Kool-aid hasn't been ruled out. Although I kind of like that Spectre but we can't run offshore around here so thats pointless.
BTW who you fawkers calling slow, the slip # on my 25 is pretty low, 1.5,26,4800,74 :p (slip #'s are really how I buy my boats). All I am missing is $$ for a motor. :cry: :cry: We will get some HP to it this winter and see. :devil: Got parts on order! :D

[Three Days Only]

Do you guys really consider a "Custom" boat one that you can pic colors, motors, and accesories. Thats not custom, those are options.
NOT ME!!!!!!!
Custom is when they will build the son of a bitch with the deck or bottom modified anyway you want. SKATER, thats custom!!!! There all alittle or alot differnt, tunnel extensions, deck modifications, wide tunnels, narrow tunnels, single open canopies, quarter canopies, full canopies, Thats the shit. Plus after you design the boat, then you get to do all the usual options, Paint, Motors, Accessories, ETC.
Until DCB / Eliminator is doing that there another production boat with customer spec'd colors, motor packages, and accesories.
Love you all
3DO

[Dave C]

Jeff raises a good point. a custom is really a one-off.
Us poor fawkers have to buy semi-custom, which is really what both Elim & DCB are.....
actually don't custom boats come "LESS MOTOR" too?
so you can build to spec?

[Froggystyle]

Thanks. More good info!!
SOOOO the shiny coating in the engine compartment is an epoxy coating! I erroneously assumed it was gel coat. Thanks, thats good to know. (I was wondering why an outside rigger offered to do this) BTW does the epoxy coating scratch easily? I used it before but not under constant traffic like the boat gets.
#1) I'm lost? Where is this exactly? where the halves are joined? The joint is covered with glass. I didn't see any but maybe they are hidden. If they are not SS the ol magnet will find them ;)
#2/3) I have had the interior out of this boat twice and the wiring is buttoned up behind interior pieces.
#4) the dash needs some attention but its far from a rats nest, everything is clear and traceable. The Cougar was really nice because it was extremely neat (almost sterile) but it was just a show-piece.
You lost me on the construction but I get the yield. Also I know that SOB is heavy. 5500 lbs. fully loaded.
This is the nice thing about ordering Custom Boats, you can have it anyway you want it. Some guy may prefer to order his boat with every blinged out item cuz it makes him happy. IMO some of that bling is pointless.
Personally I just want a fast boat with a good looking gel coat, with a nice looking interior. Extra bling is useless to me.
For example, buying a motor from the manufacturer is TOTALLY AND UTTERLY USELESS TO ME. ;) Why, because I don't need one. Sterile engine compartments=useless to me cuz they are gonna get damaged on the motor changes. Warranties, those are for yuppies.
Am I like most boaters here, No, others need a motor, warranty and some nice looking bling in their boat to make them happy.
To each, their own
Well, your interior, if it is the starboard woodless variety is a jig-saw assembled set of pieces. They are made of grey plastic-like pieces that are screwed together. The screws on them are spec'ed to be drywall screws. I have seen them, and that is the way they are built. If it is one of the wood interiors, it is held together with steel staples like everyone else. Both work fine, just not the best you can do.
I hear you on the motor, I hear you on a lot of your items. I personally vowed I would never get a new vehicle because I liked doing work to old ones so much. Roadrunners, GTX's, Corvettes etc... I loved working on them and building them up, similar to you and your boat needs.
Then I got sick of it. Coincidentally, I got sick of it right about the same time I could afford to buy a new vehicle. ;) Z06 Corvette, in stock. Change the wheels, pay someone to do some cool engine mods and suspension and drive it till the wheels fall off. Chevy, as it turns out, does a much better job designing the new Vettes than I did the old Roadrunners, and I have a turn key pump gas sports car that is significantly faster than any hot rod I have ever owned. Hell, it is my wife's daily driver.
I am building the boat for the person who doesn't want to deal with it. They have built a bunch of boats, and are looking for something that is everything they would do and more, that they can just pick up finished. Even motorheads would have a very difficult time surpassing the engine we have built stock, and competition installers couldn't one up our stereo since it is part of the boat.
But, it takes all kinds. That's why there are so many options that fit everyone's needs the best.

[cougarcat]

Damn good post here...........gotta jump on the Eliminator bandwagon.......although both companies build awesome boats. I went for the fastest, best looking 26' (actually 26' 10"), center sponson canopied cat, twin 300x's, with custom gel that we could afford. (Flame suit on.) She's our '05 Daytona, GPS'd at 111 and some change......two men and 3/4 tanks in fresh water. Eliminator did the hull and the staff at Lightning Bay Marine in St. Pete, Fl. did the awesome rigging (much thanks to Andy, Tony and Mike Flanigan (owner)).
This is our second 26' Eliminator. Before that we had a Cougar 23' MTR, a 22' Wellcraft Scarab and this list goes downhill from there. I don't think 120k would buy a similarly equipped DCB. Not hatin' on the DCB's...they're really nice........there's a F-29 on Lake Hartwell that is freaking awesome...........632's n/a on the juice. Rumors of 142+.
In closing, Eliminator had the best overall package, for us, with the best price.
Gerry
Tried to post some pics but something is f-ed up.........probably me.

[Dave C]

Got it.
I got the grey plastic pieces, I think your right. I kind of like that idea for the interior but who knows how they will hold up.
The wood and staples seem to deteriorate after a few years (having replaced quite a few in my time).
What else is there? Glassed seat back, maybe? That sounds like a good idea too! altough the paint on the seat back would get thrashed.
When I said it was bolt through I meant its bolted to the floor with 8 SS bolts and nuts.
Wes, thanks again for all the info!!! I know many of us really appreciate your insight!
BTW your probably ruined it because you turned a hobby into an occupation LOL
BTW just purchased the Cadillac CTS V (i.e. vette caddy) DAMN :devil:

[Kilrtoy]

Damn good post here...........gotta jump on the Eliminator bandwagon.......although both companies build awesome boats. I went for the fastest, best looking 26' (actually 26' 10"), center sponson canopied cat, twin 300x's, with custom gel that we could afford. (Flame suit on.) She's our '05 Daytona, GPS'd at 111 and some change......two men and 3/4 tanks in fresh water. Eliminator did the hull and the staff at Lightning Bay Marine in St. Pete, Fl. did the awesome rigging (much thanks to Andy, Tony and Mike Flanigan (owner)).
This is our second 26' Eliminator. Before that we had a Cougar 23' MTR, a 22' Wellcraft Scarab and this list goes downhill from there. I don't think 120k would buy a similarly equipped DCB. Not hatin' on the DCB's...they're really nice........there's a F-29 on Lake Hartwell that is freaking awesome...........632's n/a on the juice. Rumors of 142+.
In closing, Eliminator had the best overall package, for us, with the best price.
Gerry
Tried to post some pics but something is f-ed up.........probably me.
What size props?
How much does this thing weigh in at?
is this stripped to the bone @ 120K?......

[Froggystyle]

Got it.
I got the grey plastic pieces, I think your right. I kind of like that idea for the interior but who knows how they will hold up.
The wood and staples seem to deteriorate after a few years (having replaced quite a few in my time).
What else is there? Glassed seat back, maybe? That sounds like a good idea too! altough the paint on the seat back would get thrashed.
When I said it was bolt through I meant its bolted to the floor with 8 SS bolts and nuts.
Wes, thanks again for all the info!!! I know many of us really appreciate your insight!
BTW your probably ruined it because you turned a hobby into an occupation LOL
BTW just purchased the Cadillac CTS V (i.e. vette caddy) DAMN :devil:
It isn't the material I have a problem with, if you can even call it that... it is that they are not using stainless screws because there is no selling point there. You can't see them, they can't take a hit for the most part so they use cheap fasteners. If they did it with stainless screws I would be applauding them for the woodless leap.
I have been dinged on these forums pretty hard recently by turning threads into a "how I do it" forum, so I have been trying to steer clear in this one, but I had issues with the way that people have been solving the problems to date, and I have had opportunity to do it a better/my way, so I did. We used a very similar material for the seat backs, but removed all of the construction of the bases. We use a product called AP5 for the substrate, and had it CNC cut for the boat. This is through bolted using stainless carriage bolts to the fiberglass seat bases and backs that are part of the liner. No assembly required.
After going down the construction road, I also didn't like the constructed seats themselves as they suck to screw into and most of those plastics weren't rigid enough for what I wanted to do. Lots of them, inlcuding the Starlite XL in your boat won't take adhesives either, so gluing them was out. To solve the problem, we designed a full fiberglass gelcoated assembly for the amps and seats, and use the aforementioned AP5 and bolts to upholster. Very, very durable and totally modular. Any cushion can be replaced easily in case of damage, and there is nothing to fail from a construction standpoint.
Interior has to date been my single largest headache.

[cougarcat]

What size props?
How much does this thing weigh in at?
is this stripped to the bone @ 120K?......
Hey Kilr....
We're spinning labbed 32 Merc cleavers.........turning them out @ 6800. No idea on the weight......I would guess around 4000 lbs. It's not loaded but not stripped either. It's got the Livorsi monster gauge package w/ gps recall, a full gelcoat (whole boat(except the bottom), yellow with orange fades, purple, and fuscia), three Optimas, full hyd. Imco steering with helm, Smartcraft, depth, cockpit cover. I provided my own stereo (JVC headunit, Xtant amps, MB Quart 160.19 6.5's and JL Audio 10 W7's)......they installed the equipment. I would've liked to have had it capped with the stainless rubrail like Dave does but that wasn't in the budget. Sometimes we head down to the St. Johns river in Fl. (which can get a little brackish) so we got it on a Aluminum trailer. Not near as nice as an Extreme but I didn't want to dunk a painted trailer in salt.
Gerry

[Kilrtoy]

Hey Kilr....
We're spinning labbed 32 Merc cleavers.........turning them out @ 6800. No idea on the weight......I would guess around 4000 lbs. It's not loaded but not stripped either. It's got the Livorsi monster gauge package w/ gps recall, a full gelcoat (whole boat(except the bottom), yellow with orange fades, purple, and fuscia), three Optimas, full hyd. Imco steering with helm, Smartcraft, depth, cockpit cover. I provided my own stereo (JVC headunit, Xtant amps, MB Quart 160.19 6.5's and JL Audio 10 W7's)......they installed the equipment. I would've liked to have had it capped with the stainless rubrail like Dave does but that wasn't in the budget. Sometimes we head down to the St. Johns river in Fl. (which can get a little brackish) so we got it on a Aluminum trailer. Not near as nice as an Extreme but I didn't want to dunk a painted trailer in salt.
Gerry
Wow good price and sounds very nice.....

[cougarcat]

Wow good price and sounds very nice.....
Thanks Kilr. I was really stoked when you posted pics of your DCB earlier this yr.(ours was still in the mold). It looks great. You know, us o/b guys have got to stick together. You wouldn't believe the crap the wife and I have to go through here in Atl. Eggbeaters, wackers, mosquito killers, and so on. Just about all of the boats in our boat club(atlantapowerboat.com) are vee's with sterndrives(a few exceptions). We do get compliments from the bassboat guys :notam: It would seem, by the pics I've seen, that there are quite a few very nice o/b boats out your way, which is cool.
Back under my rock.

[Kilrtoy]

Thanks Kilr. I was really stoked when you posted pics of your DCB earlier this yr.(ours was still in the mold). It looks great. You know, us o/b guys have got to stick together. You wouldn't believe the crap the wife and I have to go through here in Atl. Eggbeaters, wackers, mosquito killers, and so on. Just about all of the boats in our boat club(atlantapowerboat.com) are vee's with sterndrives(a few exceptions). We do get compliments from the bassboat guys :notam: It would seem, by the pics I've seen, that there are quite a few very nice o/b boats out your way, which is cool.
Back under my rock.
They can say what they want as you fly past them.....
I know I was this weekend... I just stayed away from 3D0, cruising at 115MPH....
Put some pics up I would love to see it....
I have not seen a O/B elim except for pre 2000 models...

[Jrocket]

They can say what they want as you fly past them.....
I know I was this weekend... I just stayed away from 3D0, cruising at 115MPH....
Put some pics up I would love to see it....
I have not seen a O/B elim except for pre 2000 models...
I would like to see some pics as well.

[mbrown2]

I have not seen a O/B elim except for pre 2000 models...
There is a purple/yellow (ala Rockit Man style) new 25 Daytona with Canopies that cruises Parker with 300x's....good looking boat.

[Charley]

Sorry Charlie, you're so full of shiat its coming out of your ears. Step away from the Diaper Genie! :rollside: !
#1 I am not full of shit... but based on the fact that you have edited every single post you have made in the last 24 hours I'll assume you do alot of spouting before thinking... whatever.... I absolutely called on all 3 of the boats within 20 minutes of posting the original post in this thread... I took very good notes and was very specific about a bone stock, no option, twin 496HO 28ICC, 30ICC and F-29 ... your 140k number may be based on what you paid but I compared retail #'s as that is the only static # for comparison sake...
YES IT DOES COME ON A EXTREME TRAILER at no extra charge and the 12V socket is standard now ;)
Glad to hear it the competitive trailer my 21' daytona sat on was a rust bucket..cheers to Eliminator for raising the bar
Now I know you get special "Dave and Charlie Boats" pricing so we should be comparing those #'s . If you were right about the pricing, you have a point!
I believe I am, and I believe I do.... and if you want a $ # on a fully rigged F-29 and you supply motors I will gladly go to bat for you on the best #..... not because I have a financial interest in the deal, but because It would be a moral victory to see you in a better boat for less money ;)

[Kilrtoy]

There is a purple/yellow (ala Rockit Man style) new 25 Daytona with Canopies that cruises Parker with 300x's....good looking boat.
That must be that one I saw in the trader....
But it was a bad pic....

[cougarcat]

They can say what they want as you fly past them.....
I know I was this weekend... I just stayed away from 3D0, cruising at 115MPH....
Put some pics up I would love to see it....
I have not seen a O/B elim except for pre 2000 models...
Damn.......a 115 cruise. He'd run out of room pretty fast on some the mudholes around here.
I've tried to post some pics but it's not happening.........I've even reduced them to around 35-40kb. Any suggestions?
Concerning the 26' with wackers...........I think mine is one of the two that has been done from the factory ready for o/b's. The first belongs to a good friend of mine and was done in 2002. He's won his class at the LOTO shootout a couple yrs. running.
I'll try again tonight to post some pics...........gotta get back to work.
Gerry

[ZBODaytona]

I have seen cougarcat's daytona, very nice. Meet him a few months ago on the St.Johns. There was another one very similar there with him. Both Eliminators were very nice.

[Dave C]

HA HA HA HA....Then you are getting gang-raped at that price. There is no way in hell I would pay that amount (for either ;) ) because at that price you have a point! LOL :rolleyes:
Retail #'s are moot. Everyone here knows that retail #'s are f-ing nonsense. I know that the DCB probably goes for less than you indicated. So the #'s we should compare are the amounts actually paid because those are the #'s that count, where the rubber meets the road.
Let me guess you called the manufacturer direct. Figures! The lack of sleep is getting to you. You need to call a dealer to get a better price.
I have three firm offers FROM DEALERS at the amounts I have indicated. I am not sure this is repeat-business pricing but one price came from a dealer I have not done business with. And I don't think he likes me that much soooo maybe I am getting this price because I don't have sucker written on my forehead! :notam:
Truthfully, I have not decided on anything yet and even though I like to break your balls about DCB's :boxingguy they are nice and for the right price I would even buy one!!! :D ;)
Like I said earlier the actual DCB price is probably lower than you indicated, so the most prudent thing to do is "haggle" with both.
p.s. I edit posts for grammar/spelling and to add (not amend)
#1 I am not full of shit... but based on the fact that you have edited every single post you have made in the last 24 hours I'll assume you do alot of spouting before thinking... whatever.... I absolutely called on all 3 of the boats within 20 minutes of posting the original post in this thread... I took very good notes and was very specific about a bone stock, no option, twin 496HO 28ICC, 30ICC and F-29 ... your 140k number may be based on what you paid but I compared retail #'s as that is the only static # for comparison sake...
Glad to hear it the competitive trailer my 21' daytona sat on was a rust bucket..cheers to Eliminator for raising the bar
I believe I am, and I believe I do.... and if you want a $ # on a fully rigged F-29 and you supply motors I will gladly go to bat for you on the best #..... not because I have a financial interest in the deal, but because It would be a moral victory to see you in a better boat for less money ;)

[Dave C]

Got it.. Thanks. I appreciate the "how to" threads so tell the haters to f off.
BTW what do you mean we can't see them, I will have them "found" by the end of lunch today. :wink: LOL Also don't worry I have a big ol box of those same screws from my fence to fix the seats if they break. :)
I've noticed the new fiberglass seat backs but haven't given it much thought until now. It looks like a good idea but I would have them gel'd white.
It isn't the material I have a problem with, if you can even call it that... it is that they are not using stainless screws because there is no selling point there. You can't see them, they can't take a hit for the most part so they use cheap fasteners. If they did it with stainless screws I would be applauding them for the woodless leap.
I have been dinged on these forums pretty hard recently by turning threads into a "how I do it" forum, so I have been trying to steer clear in this one, but I had issues with the way that people have been solving the problems to date, and I have had opportunity to do it a better/my way, so I did. We used a very similar material for the seat backs, but removed all of the construction of the bases. We use a product called AP5 for the substrate, and had it CNC cut for the boat. This is through bolted using stainless carriage bolts to the fiberglass seat bases and backs that are part of the liner. No assembly required.
After going down the construction road, I also didn't like the constructed seats themselves as they suck to screw into and most of those plastics weren't rigid enough for what I wanted to do. Lots of them, inlcuding the Starlite XL in your boat won't take adhesives either, so gluing them was out. To solve the problem, we designed a full fiberglass gelcoated assembly for the amps and seats, and use the aforementioned AP5 and bolts to upholster. Very, very durable and totally modular. Any cushion can be replaced easily in case of damage, and there is nothing to fail from a construction standpoint.
Interior has to date been my single largest headache.

[pixrthis]

Didnt DCB start out by building fancy Eliminators?

[boxscore]

Didnt DCB start out by building fancy Eliminators?
Nope. DCB started out by building Eliminator's and MAKING them fancy.

[Jrocket]

Didnt DCB start out by building fancy Eliminators?
Did you just drop in or start at the beginning? Yes,he was the reason they were fancy. :D

[Froggystyle]

Got it.. Thanks. I appreciate the "how to" threads so tell the haters to f off.
BTW what do you mean we can't see them, I will have them "found" by the end of lunch today. :wink: LOL Also don't worry I have a big ol box of those same screws from my fence to fix the seats if they break. :)
I've noticed the new fiberglass seat backs but haven't given it much thought until now. It looks like a good idea but I would have them gel'd white.
Make sure you play fair and come back and let me know if I am full of shit, okay????

[pixrthis]

Did you just drop in or start at the beginning? Yes,he was the reason they were fancy. :D
I started at the beginning and then skipped ahead. This conversation seems to be the same everytime. It's entertaining though.

[Dave C]

Who told you that you were full of do-do? :eek: Not me! I meant to say I would go look cuz now I curious.
BTW you were right, gold screws in the back of the rear seat. But also the seat had SS bolts and studs holding it together.
Frankly, the gold screws(which SHOULD be SS) while present seem inconsequential as they appear to take the place of staples (screws being better than staples) and some big SS bolts hold the whole thing together.
This construction looks way better than the old seats in all the other boats I have owned.
Another issue, this thing is heavy, REALLY heavy! Would different construction with glass be lighter?
Make sure you play fair and come back and let me know if I am full of shit, okay????

[Robbie Racer]

This is a good thread because if I were ever able financially to step up, the Daytona 30 and the F-29 would both be on my short list. One thing that has impressed me about the 30' Daytona is it's great handling with big power at high speeds. Watching that 30 Daytona at the Bridge to Bridge runs for the past two years out run everything there at close to 150 mph was awesome. Even more impressive to me was the way it took corners at 120+. It looked like a darn Outlaw car the way it slid into the corners and was still under control.
Has anyone put a couple of 1400 hp motors in a F-29 yet? If so, I would be interested in hearing what kind of speeds they are able to get out of it. I would "assume" it would be similar to the Daytona 30 but I don't like to assume. :notam:
Keith

[Charley]

This is a good thread because if I were ever able financially to step up, the Daytona 30 and the F-29 would both be on my short list. One thing that has impressed me about the 30' Daytona is it's great handling with big power at high speeds. Watching that 30 Daytona at the Bridge to Bridge runs for the past two years out run everything there at close to 150 mph was awesome. Even more impressive to me was the way it took corners at 120+. It looked like a darn Outlaw car the way it slid into the corners and was still under control.
Has anyone put a couple of 1400 hp motors in a F-29 yet? If so, I would be interested in hearing what kind of speeds they are able to get out of it. I would "assume" it would be similar to the Daytona 30 but I don't like to assume. :notam:
Keith
I believe the F29 with Mercury 900SC's and #6's has seen 150+ and I am told Pegged has seen 144 with slightly juiced teague 800's and bravos.... 1400 a side and I would assume 180 but why the fock would anyone do that in a 29' boat??.... the F-29 is a very stable boat for its size at high speed.... I have heard good stuff about the 30 Daytona too but I personally prefer the looks of the F series over the daytona series

[Dave C]

Please don't dare Keith.... if you have seen his current monster, he is just ballsey enough to do it too. :D :idea:
.... 1400 a side and I would assume 180 but why the fock would anyone do that in a 29' boat??....

[Robbie Racer]

I believe the F29 with Mercury 900SC's and #6's has seen 150+ and I am told Pegged has seen 144 with slightly juiced teague 800's and bravos.... 1400 a side and I would assume 180 but why the fock would anyone do that in a 29' boat??
I guess it's just my old drag racer mentality. :2purples: But on the serious side, we don't get nearly as rough of water as you guys see at Havasu. A 29 or 30 will easily handle anything we see up here on our Nor Calif lakes and the faster, (while still staying relatively safe) the better. :D
I think that both of these boats are fantastic looking. I haven't driven either one yet but will have to do that someday to get a feel for which one that I might like better than the other.
Keith

[unleashed]

I guess it's just my old drag racer mentality. :2purples: But on the serious side, we don't get nearly as rough of water as you guys see at Havasu. A 29 or 30 will easily handle anything we see up here on our Nor Calif lakes and the faster, (while still staying relatively safe) the better. :D
I think that both of these boats are fantastic looking. I haven't driven either one yet but will have to do that someday to get a feel for which one that I might like better than the other.
Keith
Dude, these boats have nothing on your Carrera...that thing is sharp and fast as hell.
Deano
Unleashedclothing (http://www.unleashedclothing.com)

[Three Days Only]

They can say what they want as you fly past them.....
I know I was this weekend... I just stayed away from 3D0, cruising at 115MPH....
Put some pics up I would love to see it....
I have not seen a O/B elim except for pre 2000 models...
If you had a total of 1600 HP in your 26' im sure you would be crusing a whole lot faster then 115!!!!!!

[djunkie]

If you had a total of 1600 HP in your 26' im sure you would be crusing a whole lot faster then 115!!!!!!
Sounds to me as if you were complimenting a DCB owner. Are ok? :smile:

[Froggystyle]

Who told you that you were full of do-do? :eek: Not me! I meant to say I would go look cuz now I curious.
BTW you were right, gold screws in the back of the rear seat. But also the seat had SS bolts and studs holding it together.
Frankly, the gold screws(which SHOULD be SS) while present seem inconsequential as they appear to take the place of staples (screws being better than staples) and some big SS bolts hold the whole thing together.
This construction looks way better than the old seats in all the other boats I have owned.
Another issue, this thing is heavy, REALLY heavy! Would different construction with glass be lighter?
Construction methods on your boat is near the best. Those screws are easier to install than stainless, but nowhere near as resistant to corrosion, and when they rust, they go all the way. Stainless won't, and it is as simple a solution as switching fasteners.
The starboard is good stuff, and just as heavy as wood and twice as good. But, you need a thicker board of starboard, so you have 1/2" in your boat as opposed to 3/8" in most wood interiors. Additionally, since you have to screw everything together (won't accept glue or fiberglass) the joints get a lot more complicated and heavier.
Our entire seat is infused composite. To give you an idea of the weight savings, our entire helm seat for two people minus cushions weighs under 40 pounds with the amp rack installed.

[Charley]

Dude, these boats have nothing on your Carrera...that thing is sharp and fast as hell.
Deano
Unleashedclothing (http://www.unleashedclothing.com)
uh Canopies is something :D
Sounds to me as if you were complimenting a DCB owner. Are ok? :smile:
get 3DO in private and he is an F-29 lover.. I believe "ultimate lake boat" is the terminology he uses... don't let him fool you he just likes to stir the shit around and sadly his stirring tool he also uses to urinate with :cry:

[Phat Matt]

here is the Skinny, quoted all 3 Today
Eliminator Daytona 28 ICC $176,604
DCB F-29 $179,950
Eliminator Daytona 30 ICC $199,604
So based on retail relative pricing for
$3,347 more than a 28' ICC or $19,654 less than a 30' ICC you can have a DCB F-29 not to mention that the DCB comes with
1. A stereo(yes upgrade on eliminator)
2. Gaffrig Gauges(yes upgrade on eliminator)
3. Dual Ram Steering(yes upgrade on eliminator)
4. Latham Throttles and shifters (yes upgrade on eliminator)
+ I dont know if Eliminators come on a competitive trailer still or not but if they do the Extreme trailer that all DCB's sit on would be another distinct upgrade....I even think 12 V sockets come in the base models for free now ;)
Just get an Eticket and load up all your friends. :D
Just a little fuel for the fire. LOL
Twin Mercury Mercruiser 496 H.O. Engines w/ XR Drives and Imco Full Power Steering w/ Hydraulic Helm (85 mph!)
░ $138,900

[Kilrtoy]

If you had a total of 1600 HP in your 26' im sure you would be crusing a whole lot faster then 115!!!!!!
Can I hang yours off the back

[Phat Matt]

If you want to spend the same amount as the 30' you are going to have to go with twin Illmor's or Teague's. :)
(New for 06) Twin Ilmor Viper V-10's (625 hp each) with Teague Platinum Drives, CMI Exhaust, and Imco Full Power Steering w/ Hydraulic Helm.
░ $199,900
(New for 06) Twin Teague 620’s XR 2" Platinum Drives, CMI Exhaust, Full Power Steering w/ Hydraulic Helm.
░ $197,900

[UnionJack]

When is your boat going to be done?

[Phat Matt]

When is your boat going to be done?
Hopefully sometime next month...but the jury is still out. :2purples: I asked if it could please be done by the dam run on 10/14. We shall see. I am not going to rush it. When it is done, it is done. :)

[Kilrtoy]

Is E-ticket, Eliminators new name
like P.Diddy=Diddy

[Phat Matt]

Is E-ticket, Eliminators new name
like P.Diddy=Diddy
That's how rumors get started. :)

[UnionJack]

Hopefully sometime next month...but the jury is still out. :2purples: I asked if it could please be done by the dam run on 10/14. We shall see. I am not going to rush it. When it is done, it is done. :)
Nice another Dam run... thats cool

[cougarcat]

Put some pics up I would love to see it....
I have not seen a O/B elim except for pre 2000 models...
Kilr -
I finally got some pics ... Hope they upload okay.
I've been really slack taking pics this year. Most of these pictures are from when it was being built in CA and then rigged in FL. I also added a few in the image gallery. The dash looks a bit rough.....they were sorting out the gauge and control layout and wiring everything.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/523/2944SJR_E.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/523/2944update_april_7_005.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2944Picture_050.jpg

[Kilrtoy]

Looks nice, but you need to paint those cowlings....

[CornWater]

Looks nice, but you need to paint those cowlings....
Is that a compliment? How bout' looks nice (period). :frown:

[ZBODaytona]

This is a good thread because if I were ever able financially to step up, the Daytona 30 and the F-29 would both be on my short list. One thing that has impressed me about the 30' Daytona is it's great handling with big power at high speeds. Watching that 30 Daytona at the Bridge to Bridge runs for the past two years out run everything there at close to 150 mph was awesome. Even more impressive to me was the way it took corners at 120+. It looked like a darn Outlaw car the way it slid into the corners and was still under control.
Has anyone put a couple of 1400 hp motors in a F-29 yet? If so, I would be interested in hearing what kind of speeds they are able to get out of it. I would "assume" it would be similar to the Daytona 30 but I don't like to assume. :notam:
Keith
Doesn't Dustin Whipple have a 28 daytona tall deck with twin 1,200hp hemi's?? Something like 672 with the 3.3's and fuel injection that they built in house. Thought it cruised 140, seen over 160, but said he didn't like to do that and it still had more left but thought it was too much.

[Raylar]

This is a great thread. I have learned more about fiberglass construction here from Froggystyle than I have from others in years! Keep up these discussions and thinking, it only makes the future product better. And the rest of you? There's no hope, but at least you'll die with a smile on your face!! :boxingguy
Ray @ Raylar

[Froggystyle]

This is a great thread. I have learned more about fiberglass construction here from Froggystyle than I have from others in years! Keep up these discussions and thinking, it only makes the future product better. And the rest of you? There's no hope, but at least you'll die with a smile on your face!! :boxingguy
Ray @ Raylar
Ray,
Since you are in San Diego, feel free to come by any time. Feeling the difference in standard lamination vs. infusion first hand is truly mindboggling. We are infusing some stuff today in fact. Plus, I would love to meet you.
Wes

[Dave C]

LOL thats a DCB owner for ya
always got to get the last dig in! :notam:
Is that a compliment? How bout' looks nice (period). :frown:

[boxscore]

LOL thats a DCB owner for ya
always got to get the last dig in! :notam:
Hey Dave... Nice boat, but I'd have gone with a triple axle trailer.

[CornWater]

Hey Dave... Nice boat, but I'd have gone with a triple axle trailer.
LMAO... :)

[mbrown2]

LOL thats a DCB owner for ya
always got to get the last dig in! :notam:
No...only certain ones....

[cougarcat]

Looks nice, but you need to paint those cowlings....
nah...........We're turbo Buick people in the off months. So a fast six cylinder has got to be black!
Now if only there was a way to cram a couple of PT88's on these Merc's......
Gerry

[Eliminator 4 Life]

Looks nice, but you need to paint those cowlings....
QUit hattin you knows its the shit and you are drooling on it...
All I have to say is you guys are lucky everyone is at the Eliminator Dealer meeting in VEGAS :hammer2: :D :jawdrop:

[Screaming Pete]

Ray,
Since you are in San Diego, feel free to come by any time. Feeling the difference in standard lamination vs. infusion first hand is truly mindboggling. We are infusing some stuff today in fact. Plus, I would love to meet you.
Wes
Wes, I'm just waiting for the first time some of the Big Ballers get a clue as to the difference in INFUSION vs std lamination or carbon fiber lamation or even vacuum bag and it will be hard for anyone with ca$h thats want's the best or Worlds Best or Best Eliminator carbon lay up ect. to want anything but...INFUSION............

[Dave C]

LOL :)
Hey Dave... Nice boat, but I'd have gone with a triple axle trailer.
hey I'm not a baller like you guys...

[Boatlesss]

Wes, I'm just waiting for the first time some of the Big Ballers get a clue as to the difference in INFUSION vs std lamination or carbon fiber lamation or even vacuum bag and it will be hard for anyone with ca$h thats want's the best or Worlds Best or Best Eliminator carbon lay up ect. to want anything but...INFUSION............
Infusion is really big in FL. All the fishing boats and such have been using this method for years.
EPA will make it nearly 100% manufacturers soon as it decreases the emisions into the atmosphere.

[Kilrtoy]

Is that a compliment? How bout' looks nice (period). :frown:
It looks really nice, but unfinished...
What we can beat up on Rocky for almost a year , but I cant say a thing to someone else.....

[Kilrtoy]

LOL :)
hey I'm not a baller like you guys...
Thats why you bought an Eliminator
:D

[Kilrtoy]

LOL thats a DCB owner for ya
always got to get the last dig in! :notam:
No there is no last dig...
I like it, But I like painted cowlings and think that would be the final touch on the boat........

[Kilrtoy]

QUit hattin you knows its the shit and you are drooling on it...
All I have to say is you guys are lucky everyone is at the Eliminator Dealer meeting in VEGAS :hammer2: :D :jawdrop:
So what they are in vegas getting lap dances from 18 year old strippers named GiGi talking about how the are gonna try and beat Dave this year.....for once... :hammer2: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

[CornWater]

What?? No crack on the dcb guys comment... :hammerhea
BTW, I crack on Rocky because I know him, plus it's easy... :eek:

[Jrocket]

Ray,
Plus, I would love to meet you.
Wes
Whoooooaaaaaa,easy fella.Please tell me Ray is a chick! :D

[Jrocket]

nah...........We're turbo Buick people in the off months.
Now your talk'n...What do you have? I have been thinking of putting one in my 66 SS Nova,street car.

[Kilrtoy]

What?? No crack on the dcb guys comment... :hammerhea
BTW, I crack on Rocky because I know him, plus it's easy... :eek:
No need to tell you were better, You already know that.....
;)

[BoatFloating]

It looks really nice, but unfinished...
What we can beat up on Rocky for almost a year , but I cant say a thing to someone else.....
No!!!!!
It's ok Miguel it took you a year to figure out how to turn with just the sticks.... :mix:

[Kilrtoy]

No!!!!!
It's ok Miguel it took you a year to figure out how to turn with just the sticks.... :mix:
Hey FOCKER, I am still learning......
Grasshopper will one day leave the nest....

[Froggystyle]

Whoooooaaaaaa,easy fella.Please tell me Ray is a chick! :D
OK... really like to meet the dude painting motors purple???
No win here... big fan of what Raylar is doing though.

[Jrocket]

OK... really like to meet the dude painting motors purple???
No win here... big fan of what Raylar is doing though.
Purple motors? Atleast you didnt call him Bro...LOL

[cougarcat]

Now your talk'n...What do you have? I have been thinking of putting one in my 66 SS Nova,street car.
Jrocket........Nothing much (compared to some of these die-hard Buick guys). It's a 1987 Grand National hard top, 70k miles, .030" over girdled block with steel mains 3.8, worked heads , big roller, 50lb. injectors, PT53 turbo, front mount i/c, 9" non-lock converter, alcohol injection, etc. It's got, pretty much, most of the bolt ons you can do to these things.
They are awesome little engines.............as long as you can keep the fuel coming and the detonation away. :crossx:
Next (engine) time we're going Stage 2 (274ci). That'd be a nice setup in your Nova.
Mine weighs in at 4000lbs., runs high 11's through the mufflers on crappy drag radials @ 119 mph. It'd really make that light Nova move.
Excuse the basement shots.................Oh, btw, they are prone to leaking oil..........but those spots are 8-9 yrs worth of accumulation.
Gerry
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2944buick_2005_001.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2944buick_2005_002.jpg

[Jrocket]

Ive always liked the GN's.This is what got me thinking of putting a GN in my 66 Nova.Ive known this guy for some time now and Tims stuff has always ran good.
Check the black car on the web site.. Tim Lee's turbo car (http://www.donleeauto.com/cars/Tim/Tims-cars.html)

[Kilrtoy]

That is a sick ass car...
Always wanted one...

[cougarcat]

Ive always liked the GN's.This is what got me thinking of putting a GN in my 66 Nova.Ive known this guy for some time now and Tims stuff has always ran good.
Check the black car on the web site.. Tim Lee's turbo car (http://www.donleeauto.com/cars/Tim/Tims-cars.html)
Thanks guys..........They're good cars as long as you can keep the rust from them.
He did a NICE job on that Skylark..............

[Eliminator 4 Life]

That is a sick ass car...
Always wanted one...
GET a fawkin job then :crossx: :mad:

[Eliminator 4 Life]

Originally Posted by Eliminator 4 Life
QUit hattin you knows its the shit and you are drooling on it...
All I have to say is you guys are lucky everyone is at the Eliminator Dealer meeting in VEGAS
So what they are in vegas getting lap dances from 18 year old strippers named GiGi talking about how the are gonna try and beat Dave this year.....for once... :hammer2: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:
SO WHAT PART OF DEALER MEETING DIDNT YOU UNDERSTAND...
Oh dont worry about us trying to beat Dave does he even have a dealer meeting :jawdrop: :D

[Jrocket]

Originally Posted by Eliminator 4 Life
QUit hattin you knows its the shit and you are drooling on it...
All I have to say is you guys are lucky everyone is at the Eliminator Dealer meeting in VEGAS
SO WHAT PART OF DEALER MEETING DIDNT YOU UNDERSTAND...
Oh dont worry about us trying to beat Dave does he even have a dealer meeting :jawdrop: :D
Bayliner has dealers too,whats your point?

[Eliminator 4 Life]

Bayliner has dealers too,whats your point?
OHHH JROCKET cant we all get along :rollside:

[Jrocket]

OHHH JROCKET cant we all get along :rollside:
Why sure we can. :D

[Eliminator 4 Life]

Why sure we can. :D
cause Im sure kawasaki has dealer meetings too :)

[JLaughreySS24]

You guys come up with some funny shit!!!

[unleashed]

Originally Posted by Eliminator 4 Life
QUit hattin you knows its the shit and you are drooling on it...
All I have to say is you guys are lucky everyone is at the Eliminator Dealer meeting in VEGAS
SO WHAT PART OF DEALER MEETING DIDNT YOU UNDERSTAND...
Oh dont worry about us trying to beat Dave does he even have a dealer meeting :jawdrop: :D
Yeah Dave has a dealer meeting. Him and Charley are getting together this weekend discussing the latest hair fads! :D
Deano
Unleashedclothing (http://www.unleashedclothing.com) :crossx:

[Jrocket]

cause Im sure kawasaki has dealer meetings too :)
So did Yugo but I aint buying one of those either.

[Jrocket]

Yeah Dave has a dealer meeting. Him and Charley are getting together this weekend discussing the latest hair fads! :D
Deano
Unleashedclothing (http://www.unleashedclothing.com) :crossx:
Last time I saw Charley he didnt have much hair. :D

[Kilrtoy]

cause Im sure kawasaki has dealer meetings too :)
Your now comparing Elim to Kawa, a 3 rate motorcycle.... :rolleyes: