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cdog
08-24-2005, 02:36 PM
Does anyone have any experiance or advice on .45's?
It's got to be a double stack mag with a 10 + cap.
So far i'm looking at the Para Ordinance Para LDA TX1445S Or
A Kimber, not sure which model Kimber. Their web site sucks.
I've shot the Para before and like the feel. It was recomended by a friend who used to be Long Beach PD.
Any comments?

Mohave Vice
08-24-2005, 02:39 PM
Had .45s before. I really prefer H&k USP .40 cal. This is my main carry.

djunkie
08-24-2005, 02:40 PM
Does anyone have any experiance or advice on .45's?
It's got to be a double stack mag with a 10 + cap.
So far i'm looking at the Para Ordinance Para LDA TX1445S Or
A Kimber, not sure which model Kimber. Their web site sucks.
I've shot the Para before and like the feel. It was recomended by a friend who used to be Long Beach PD.
Any comments?
Colt Gold Cup :D

Sleek-Jet
08-24-2005, 02:41 PM
Big boom make bad guy go away... :D
I carried a .45 sub-compact (10+1 DAO composit frame) for a while, until I got tired of lugging all that weight around.
Currently looking for a .40 S&W subcompact to replace the .45 with. Might even down size a little more and go for a Walther PPK, but I'm a lousy shot so I need a little more knock down power. :D

djunkie
08-24-2005, 02:43 PM
Big boom make bad guy go away... :D
I carried a .45 sub-compact (10+1 DAO composit frame) for a while, until I got tired of lugging all that weight around.
Currently looking for a .40 S&W subcompact to replace the .45 with. Might even down size a little more and go for a Walther PPK, but I'm a lousy shot so I need a little more knock down power. :D
Check out the Springfield XD 40. I just got one not to long ago. Very comfortable and built well. Pretty reasonably priced to.

cdog
08-24-2005, 02:47 PM
I use my glock 17 for a carry. Hi cap, very light and reliable and the wife can shoot it with out being scared of it.
The .45 is for me to have big bad mofo. What ever I get it has to be a double stack Hi cap. mag. and stainless.

sintax
08-24-2005, 02:48 PM
Check out the Springfield XD 40. I just got one not to long ago. Very comfortable and built well. Pretty reasonably priced to.
I'll have to agree with you here. They are great guns. I have a XD .357 service model.

cdog
08-24-2005, 02:48 PM
Where's Kilrtoy??? I'd like to hear from the POPO...

sintax
08-24-2005, 02:50 PM
I use my glock 17 for a carry. Hi cap, very light and reliable and the wife can shoot it with out being scared of it.
The .45 is for me to have big bad mofo. What ever I get it has to be a double stack Hi cap. mag. and stainless.
Ahhh I did not realize you had other pieces. Para makes some nice guns, i've shot a few. So your requirements are, double stack, small and anything else?

Chico&Zeus
08-24-2005, 02:52 PM
I have both the Glock 21 (Full Frame) and the Glock 30 for the wife (sub compact) they are great guns, just point and shoot...the best thing about .45 is for self defence they supply the most "knockdown" power...also the perpatrator (sp?) will SHEIT HIS PANTS looking down the barrel of that sucker!

djunkie
08-24-2005, 02:55 PM
How about one of these? Never shot one but I've heard great things about them.
http://www.paraord.com/product/category.html?cat=16

cdog
08-24-2005, 02:55 PM
Ahhh I did not realize you had other pieces. Para makes some nice guns, i've shot a few. So your requirements are, double stack, small and anything else?
Not really small. I think i'm going for the 5 inch barrel. My problem is, I'm looking for a 1911 style stainless gun with the double stack. The Para P-14 holds 14 rounds. I have not found any other gun that meets those criteria's.

cdog
08-24-2005, 02:57 PM
How about one of these? Never shot one but I've heard great things about them.
http://www.paraord.com/product/category.html?cat=16
Their nice lookin guns....

djunkie
08-24-2005, 02:59 PM
Their nice lookin guns....
Sorry didn't know you wanted a full size. Ya I like the look of the para's and the kimbers. The problem for me is that there is just too many of them to choose from. Not sure of which ones come with hi-cap mags though. I know one thing though, of the 45's that I have shot, there is nothing like the Colt Gold Cup. That gun had an awesome feel and functioned flawlessly.

cdog
08-24-2005, 03:01 PM
Here she is....
http://www.paraord.com/product/product.html?id=67

djunkie
08-24-2005, 03:05 PM
Here she is....
http://www.paraord.com/product/product.html?id=67
Nice. I can only imagine what one of those costs. :cry:

cdog
08-24-2005, 03:09 PM
Nice. I can only imagine what one of those costs. :cry:
About two weekends in havasu.. You guy's better start buyin up your guns. We've got 3 more years before they vote in a demoturd who want's to take them all away...

djunkie
08-24-2005, 03:10 PM
About two weekends in havasu.. You guy's better start buyin up your guns. We've got 3 more years before they vote in a demoturd who want's to take them all away...
I've got a lot now. Well lets just say I got what I need. But I still want more.
Did you ever end up gettin that 1187?

Sleek-Jet
08-24-2005, 03:10 PM
If you're going full size, check out a Springfield 1911... I don't know if they have a double stack or not, but they are very nice guns.
Or go OG and get a Colt. :D

STV_Keith
08-24-2005, 03:13 PM
I like my Glocks. I've had the composite frame Para Ord P12-45 and the frame broke. They replaced it, but not what I wanted to have happen.
The Glock 45 (G21) is a bit big for my hands. I shoot the 22 (.40 S&W) and carry a G27 (subcompact .40).

OGShocker
08-24-2005, 03:15 PM
If you're going full size, check out a Springfield 1911... I don't know if they have a double stack or not, but they are very nice guns.
Or go OG and get a Colt. :D
Thank you for asking.. :) :wink:
I have a Colt. If God were to carry a .45, it would be a Colt. However, being God I bet he hits his targets in the first seven shots. :cool:

cdog
08-24-2005, 03:16 PM
I've got a lot now. Well lets just say I got what I need. But I still want more.
Did you ever end up gettin that 1187?
I'm gonna order one when I order a .45. Turners has them on sale for $659 right now. Walfart has them for $625. But none in CA. I'm sure they'll match the price.

slink
08-24-2005, 03:19 PM
Chris, dont get your hopes up too fast for the "high capacity" mag. There not legal in CA (Only 10 round mags) unless your POPO. I'm sure you can find them out of state, but dont get caught in state, PC 12020(c)(25). On the link under "high capacity magazine" it even says "available where legal" Sorry to be the bearer of bad news brother.

cdog
08-24-2005, 03:21 PM
Chris, dont get your hopes up too fast for the "high capacity" mag. There not legal in CA (Only 10 round mags) unless your POPO. I'm sure you can find them out of state, but dont get caught in state, PC 12020(c)(25). On the link under "high capacity magazine" it even says "available where legal" Sorry to be the bearer of bad news brother.
No sweat the high caps. stay in AZ..

KineticoH20
08-24-2005, 03:25 PM
Im partial to the IMI Israel Military Industries, Desert Eagle. Truley an awesome pistol, 40 or 45 cal will do the trick, i love the baby eagle, it's very smooth with a great feel.

cdog
08-24-2005, 03:28 PM
Im partial to the IMI Israel Military Industries, Desert Eagle. Truley an awesome pistol, 40 or 45 cal will do the trick, i love the baby eagle, it's very smooth with a great feel.
My next big mofo will be the .50 cal. Stainless. Good Choice. That thing would probably blow a yucca tree in half.

OGShocker
08-24-2005, 03:29 PM
Chris, dont get your hopes up too fast for the "high capacity" mag. There not legal in CA (Only 10 round mags) unless your POPO. I'm sure you can find them out of state, but dont get caught in state, PC 12020(c)(25). On the link under "high capacity magazine" it even says "available where legal" Sorry to be the bearer of bad news brother.
Your sig line says it all.
I would like to ad my take on your post. I have a Lawyer to get me out of trouble, not to keep me from getting into trouble.

Riverkid
08-24-2005, 03:34 PM
The P14-45 is nice, but it's pretty wide bodied and dang if it's not heavy all loaded up (esp. condition 1)... Do you really need 15 rounds?
I've got a tuned SS matte Gold Cup that's a shooter, but the best one by far is the Smith Performance Center 945. Bought a bunch of factory mags, do pretty well at the local club shoots. I just like the slimmer grip and lighter carry weight (plus they are accurate as hell. Good sites and the holes appear right above the front sight where they should...) Try one out...
Good luck.

cdog
08-24-2005, 03:37 PM
The P14-45 is nice, but it's pretty wide bodied and dang if it's not heavy all loaded up (esp. condition 1)... Do you really need 15 rounds?
I've got a tuned SS matte Gold Cup that's a shooter, but the best one by far is the Smith Performance Center 945. Bought a bunch of factory mags, do pretty well at the local club shoots. I just like the slimmer grip and lighter carry weight (plus they are accurate as hell. Good sites and the holes appear right above the front sight where they should...) Try one out...
Good luck.
Thanks. Good info...I guess I've got big hands. I really like the feel of the p-14. My second .45 will for sure be a colt.

cdog
08-24-2005, 04:00 PM
I've been looking on the net and saw somewhere that colt does not sell hand guns to the US public anymore due to the lawsuits against gun makers.

Kilrtoy
08-24-2005, 04:05 PM
Where's Kilrtoy??? I'd like to hear from the POPO...
You rang,
PARA ORD is from my understanding, one of the best if not the best when it comes to 45's...
imnot a big gun fan......
Shoot the son of a bitch in the head and a 22 will do the same thing....
I like the beretta 40 cal COUGAR....
It has a rotating barrel and this really eliminates the kick of the weapon....
Again, Im not into Big Cal guns....

rivercrazy
08-24-2005, 04:08 PM
Its been a few years since I read about this stuff but at the time a 357 magnum with 125 grain cartridge was the #1 one shot stop caliber on the market. 45's were pretty low on the one-shot stoping percentage.
A Cor-Bon 9MM +p+ 115 grain hollowpoint was a top performer. For a semi auto its hard to beat that.

cdog
08-24-2005, 04:22 PM
Good info. Thanks everybody... I read somewhere that the 10mm is the shit right now. It did better in Ballistics tests than the .45, But the ammo is hard to find and expensive.

Sleek-Jet
08-24-2005, 04:28 PM
Good info. Thanks everybody... I read somewhere that the 10mm is the shit right now. It did better in Ballistics tests than the .45, But the ammo is hard to find and expensive.
You and Sonny Crocket... :D
If I remember my ammo history, the 10mm predates the 40 S&W by a few years... I'm not sure though.

cdog
08-24-2005, 04:35 PM
You and Sonny Crocket... :D
If I remember my ammo history, the 10mm predates the 40 S&W by a few years... I'm not sure though.
Glock has the best 10mm hand gun out right now. I read about it in a AR-15 fourm that had a glock section. From what I read, the 10mm load has had problems as far as working well with hand guns, untill the glock. The 10mm ammo aparently works so well with the glock that the FBI and dept. of homeland sec. will be using them soon if not allready. They want to use a lower grain load, but the glocks were designed to use the og. higher grain load. Sorry I don't have the specs.

cdog
08-24-2005, 04:41 PM
Here ya go.......
What the 10mm Auto Cartridge Was, Is, and Could Be
Another GREAT article contributed by [MakeMineA10mm].
The 10mm was a cartridge that evolved from several wildcats, including the 40 G&A and "The Centimeter". Most of these cartridges were based on safely obtaining major power factor while adding magazine capacity, or attempting to achieve the goals of Skeeter Skelton, Bill Jordan, and Elmer Keith for an "ideal" law-enforcement (and therefore personal defense) cartridge, but in an auto-loading pistol format. There were some limits to these cartridges primarily due to the already-existing pistol-formats that they were designed to fit into.
Along came Dornaus & Dixon and the Bren Ten. They were designing a brand new pistol and a brand new cartridge to go along with it. It seems apparent that they had more than a passing knowledge of the wildcatting going on, and there is no question they knew of the writings of the famous gun-gurus. With Col. Jeff Cooper on board, they worked with Norma, the only ammo producer who would listen to them, and designed the cartridge and gun, basically, simultaneously. What they came up with, was a marvel of it's time, and this one. They invented a 10-shot modified CZ-75 and the 10mm Auto cartridge, shooting a 200gr FMJ-TC at 1200fps or a 170gr JHP-TC (actual weight 165grs) going 1400fps (actual velocity was 1360fps).
What happened to the Bren Ten is equally famous, and it almost took the 10mm cartridge along with it. For a variety of reasons, including defaulting on pre-payments, problems with sub-contractors (especially magazines), and other financial trouble, Dornaus & Dixon and the Bren Ten went under. Luckily, Colt came along and re-chambered and re-engineered their 1911 into the "Delta Elite" and saved the 10mm. The awesome ballistics possible, combined with a proven handgun design made the 10mm an attractive cartridge once again. This had all transpired by the mid-1980s. Then came the infamous "Miami Shoot-Out" in 1986.
In the infamous shoot-out with bank-robbers (armed with long-guns), the FBI had several agents killed and more wounded. They commissioned a study to find out what went wrong. The study determined that their marksmanship had been good, but the terminal ballistics of their rounds had been too slow to incapacitate the bad guys. The Chief of the FBI's Firearms unit, knowing of this new cartridge that was more powerful than anything else in an auto-pistol, suggested the FBI adopt it. The 10mm was now blazing hot, with not only the proven 1911 design and the defunct Bren Ten (which is actually a pretty good design), but also the largest and most impressive Law Enforcement Agency in the US as it's first big user! This also promised the possibility of even more pistol designs, as, in true bureaucratic fashion, there would have to be a competitive design contest to pick which pistol to buy and issue, leading more manufacturers to design 10mm handguns. In addition, more high-performance factory ammo was coming into being, including the Winchester Silvertip (175gr JHP @ 1290fps).
But, then, a funny thing happened. Along came a man named Martin Fackler, who was a doctor for the Army, studying the effects of wounds simultaneously and as an adjunct to the FBI's Wound Ballistics Workshop. To make a long story short, he said that a 180gr 10mm bullet at 950fps was just as effective in 10% gelatin as the Norma 170gr bullet at 1350fps. In addition, many FBI agents (who are primarily accountants, attorneys or computer people by training) were found to be having a very hard time with the recoil of the full-power round. Since the lighter round was just as effective and was easier to handle, the "FBI-Load" became the new standard of 10mm ammunition. Due to the huge market for law enforcement ammunition, most companies switched over production to the "FBI Load".
In the mean time, Smith & Wesson realized there was an opportunity waiting. They realized that they could squeeze the FBI-Load's performance out of a cartridge short enough to fit in a 9mm sized firearm, rather than the 45ACP-sized pistols the 10mm required. They designed the 40 S&W in short order with the help of Winchester Ammunition, and the 10mm began to look very much like an ugly duckling again, as it had after the demise of the Bren Ten and before the Colt Delta Elite came out.
This is where the 10mm was, after the huge wave of 40S&W hit in the mid-90s. The 10mm has had an exciting and tumultuous first 18 years of life. Now, for where the 10mm is today.
Do not be dismayed, 10mm fans! Rather, take heart, because over 21 manufacturers have made more than 37 models of 10mm firearms. (See the 10mm Firearms Page) In addition, there are over 70 jacketed bullets available, and brass is being (or has been) made by at least seven manufacturers. I think it's safe to say the 10mm isn't exactly a dead or dying cartridge, nor is there going to be any shortage of it's ammunition in our lifetimes. (Especially when one considers some of the cartridges that ammo is still available for today, such as the 45 Schofield, 405 Winchester, 7.63 Mauser, etc.)
To my thinking the pinnacle of 10mm design and production came just at the time the FBI loads started predominating the ammo market: the Glock 20. When Gaston Glock directed that Glock make a 10mm, I'm betting he was making a play for the FBI contract. This is supported somewhat by the speed at which he directed a 40 S&W Glock be designed and produced (which happened so fast, Glock actually beat S&W to market with pistols in that caliber!). However, this was a great thing for the 10mm cartridge, because, for the first time, other than the Bren Ten, there was a gun designed specifically for the 10mm, and not a 45ACP gun re-engineered into a 10mm.
This makes the Glock 20 an incredibly strong, safe and well-engineered pistol for the 10mm cartridge, which means there is no reason to unduly restrict ourselves to FBI loads!!!
With no disrespect to Dr. Fackler, I must say I disagree with him on one point. If the 170gr Norma load made the same wound tract as the 180gr "FBI load," I'd call the Norma load the better one, because, clearly (and admitted to by Dr. Fackler), there is more to wound ballistics than we completely understand. If the wound tract (which is one mechanism we do understand) for both loads is in the ideal range, I'll take the load with more energy over the lower-powered one any day! In addition, the Glock 20 solved a great deal of the recoil problem, through it's wide and flexible polymer frame. I say, ditch the FBI load, and go for the full-power stuff!!!

Riverkid
08-24-2005, 05:14 PM
^^^ That was my understanding, mags you had in your possession prior to the fine Kali ban were grandfathered in. They just cannot be transferred (sold) within the state.

probablecause
08-24-2005, 05:18 PM
You rang,
PARA ORD is from my understanding, one of the best if not the best when it comes to 45's...
imnot a big gun fan......
Shoot the son of a bitch in the head and a 22 will do the same thing....
I like the beretta 40 cal COUGAR....
It has a rotating barrel and this really eliminates the kick of the weapon....
Again, Im not into Big Cal guns....
I agree, but there is something about being able to life him right up out of his Nike's or Air Jordan's that appeals to me... .45 Glock with light and laser....

vdrivenman
08-24-2005, 05:28 PM
all our guyz carry .40 cals with the exception of a few still carrying .45.
any one in a tactical position carries .40. u cannot limp wrist these new auto's they will jam. so if you don't have the hand size or grip you might want to go with something a little heavier that will still feed.
if your not carrying it in a LE capacity get something you like. i loved my beretta 9mm 15 in the clip & 1 in the pipe.hell you had 48 rounds with you with just your two clips on your duty rig.just wanted a little more lead and wanted to be able to interchange ammo w partner should we need to.
doesn't really matter what you shoot just be proficent with it !
two to the chest, ONE to the head !

SOCALDETAIL1
08-24-2005, 05:49 PM
Does anyone have any experiance or advice on .45's?
It's got to be a double stack mag with a 10 + cap.
So far i'm looking at the Para Ordinance Para LDA TX1445S Or
A Kimber, not sure which model Kimber. Their web site sucks.
I've shot the Para before and like the feel. It was recomended by a friend who used to be Long Beach PD.
Any comments?
I have a Kimber Classic Custom 45. Nice firearm very tight like a custom.

cdog
08-24-2005, 05:58 PM
Here are some good links to sites for hi cap mags.
http://www.cdnninvestments.com/ar15m16.html
http://www.fourfourmagstore.com/home.asp
Enjoy!!!

77charger
08-24-2005, 06:20 PM
I myself am a .45 fanatic.I also prefer 1911 style to any other gun.I like the smaller grip and handle and if you cant take em on 8 shots you need some serious practice.The .45 has been around since 1905 and many calibers have tried to replace it many talk about the new calibers and try them only to go back to one the .45acp.
Try a few guns and see what you like and what fits your needs.
Enoughsaid!

SUI-CY-COLE DIMARCO
08-24-2005, 06:22 PM
i have a .454 taurus "raging bull"....5 shot...............come through my front door and ill blow your f-in head off...j/k...a smaller gun is usuallyu better the 454 is so damm big its hard to shoot!!!

jtmarten
08-24-2005, 06:22 PM
A friend had a Para 45 that was sweet! I opted for the Ruger P90. With little ones in the house I wanted the Lorena Bobbit safety. Only 45's I found with it were the Ruger and Colt. The Colt was 3x's the price.

djunkie
08-24-2005, 06:24 PM
i have a .454 taurus "raging bull"....5 shot...............come through my front door and ill blow your f-in head off...j/k...a smaller gun is usuallyu better the 454 is so damm big its hard to shoot!!!
Heck if you miss you can always use that thing to him them in the head. :D

77charger
08-24-2005, 06:31 PM
Chris, dont get your hopes up too fast for the "high capacity" mag. There not legal in CA (Only 10 round mags) unless your POPO. I'm sure you can find them out of state, but dont get caught in state, PC 12020(c)(25). On the link under "high capacity magazine" it even says "available where legal" Sorry to be the bearer of bad news brother.
typical cop response.They are legal to own provided you owned them before the ban.After that date you cannot buy them in ca,import them,give them away,loan them to a friend,You must have had them in your possesion before that date after that you are the only one WHO CAN USE THEM OR POSSES THEM.
I would just hate to get stopped and harrased by a LEO who doesnt even know the laws pertaining to firearms in this state since i am a law abiding gun owner and DO KNOW THE LAWS about them or at least pertaining to the guns i do own. hell i have even stumped lowriver :)

77charger
08-24-2005, 06:36 PM
my 2 toys i liked the commander better than the fulls size though.just shot better and wasnt as sensitive as the full size when doing 3 gun matckes time matters.
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/398the_1911s.JPG

snojet
08-24-2005, 06:50 PM
I am also a big 1911 fan, 5 colts, 1 remmingtion rand, and 2 kimbers,
Kimbers a very tight and well made, I have a kimber pro tactical II that I carry as a consealed, Colt and Kimbers are the only two brands I care anything about owning. For my colts.
I own a series 70 government, Conceal Carry Officers,Polished Officers, a Commander, series 70 gold cup, and a Delt Elite 10mm, For my Kimbers
I own a Pro Tactical II and a Classic stainless,
and 1 army issue Remmington Rand. Cant go wrong with Colts!!

SmokinLowriderSS
08-24-2005, 06:56 PM
Nothing educates a f'up like an inbound .45 slug. The things move so slow I suspect they may be able to hear the wind whistling across the hollow-point about to land. The fact that it impacts not a lot different from a sledgehammer is a bonus (I'm a .45acp fan). :mix:
I've actually SEEN slugs going downrange if the angle & lighting is right on jacketed ammo, outdoors usually.
I'd go for the Para Ordinance, 14-45, for capacity. That said, there is nothing with a sweeter trigger or a better safety system than a 1911 (I love the politically INcorrect single action smoothness) but you won't find me pushing any NEW colts (lousy QC these days, I give them 10 yrs and they will lock the doors). They are spending every nickel they have on "smart gun" technology. Go Kimber for a well-equipped, quality, reliable, 1911A1.
Speaking of reliable, they don't get any better than an Ordinance Spec (the only actual specs in existence for a 1911 are military) US Army 1911 or clone. My Llama model IX-A will digest anything that will fit in a magazine (including semi-wadcutter and the clasically hard to feed CCI 200grain "flying-trashcan" hollowpoint), even after 500 rounds without cleaning. A friend had some ammo trouble in his .45 glock (Winchester primers, glock wasn't hitting them hard enough). I loaded a stack and shot the next IDPA stage with 'em, and bought the box of primers from him.

Jbb
08-24-2005, 07:09 PM
1991a1
http://picdb.thaimisc.com/firearmboard/66-2.jpg

Tom Brown
08-24-2005, 07:13 PM
I have a Crossman air rifle. .177 pellets.
Me thinks it's time for operation feline... :idea:

voodooCanoe
08-24-2005, 07:36 PM
Haven't had many guns to compare it to, but I am very pleased with my Sig Sauer p220, Doesn't have a large cap. mag. but if I can't knock em down with the first couple, I'm in trouble anyway.

full throttle
08-24-2005, 07:55 PM
I have a few 45's. Like the 1911's. Carry a custom Colt officers. Like my Glock 21 for hi-cap. I also have a Commander type 1911 that shoots awesome. Springfield has some nice in house customs now around a grand. Dig the Kimber the most. My 2cents.

sintax
08-24-2005, 08:27 PM
Any of you So.Cal guys have your concealed carry? I noticed a few of you said that you do carry, just wondering if you guys just risk it or if you went though the hastle of getting it.
BTW, Anyone in the OC / IE area wanna go throw some lead down range sometime?

probablecause
08-24-2005, 08:42 PM
Any of you So.Cal guys have your concealed carry? I noticed a few of you said that you do carry, just wondering if you guys just risk it or if you went though the hastle of getting it.
BTW, Anyone in the OC / IE area wanna go throw some lead down range sometime?
Here we go, Judged by twelve or carried by six... get your popcorn ready

BRSTQUEST
08-24-2005, 08:50 PM
I Am Partial To The Usp45...it Is The Gun I Carry Every Day And Is Bad Ass....it Is A Simple Design With Great Engineering(sp)....i Like The Fact If I Chose To I Could Carry It Cocked And Locked, Not Many Pistols Other Than 1911 Styles Can Do That.....the Glock 21 Is Another Bitchen Weapon, But A Lil Big For Some Hands.....as For 1911 Styles I Like The Kimber Very Much...they Make Some Of The Finest 1911's Around....para Is Also Top Notch.....springfields Custom Shop Is Also A Top Notch Choice....les Baer Makes The Guns For The Fbi Hrt And Is High Dollar Gear....if Not Mistaken Lapd Metro Carries The Les Baer 45.......funny Thing About Guns In Real World Situations, They Have To Work Everytime And Shot Placement Is Paramount......our Seb Only Carries 92f's As A Sidearm, But Make Entry With M-4's And 10 Mm Mp5's......buy What You Shot The Best And Works Everytime With A Large Assortment Of Ammo
HOW COULD I FORGET THE SIG SAUER P220......IT IS BY FAR THE SWEETEST SHOOTING STOCK GUN AROUND...JUST WISH IT WAS AT LEAST A 10 ROUNDER

YeLLowBoaT
08-24-2005, 08:56 PM
I put myself thru school working at a gun store. If you have your heart set on high cap the only real choice(thats worth anything anyways) that you can get in CA is the tenII made by kimber the make a few diff models in bot 3,4 and 5 inch barrels. It is worth pointing every single hi cap .45 I have ever shot was every unbalenced when full loaded. IF you really have your heart set on hi cap I sugeust .40 s&w. I I own 3 1911s 1 colt commader 1 kimber super match and les bauh( spelling) thunder ranch version.
As for 10mm 40 s &w is basicly a short 10mm with a slighty diffrent web to it. 10mm I rairly load past the 40 s&w power. Some of the earlier guns could not take the full presure of a fully loaded 10mm. When 10mm is fully loaded its about 10% hotter then a 45 acp--most 40s&w are about 5-10% less then 45 acp.
Good luck on making your mind up.

Titan7
08-24-2005, 09:41 PM
Std Cap- Sig P220
High Cap- HK USP
1911 Platform- Kimber Custom
Go fire a few, what one person may like you may hate!

cdog
08-24-2005, 09:50 PM
I went ahead with the para o p-14. I think a kimber 1911 will be a little later down the line. The guy I buy thru is a master kimber dealer.
Great discussion here tonight. I understand the hi cap mag issue to be just as rio dog mentioned. I know many cops who I discuss these issues with and they agree as rio dog says. It all depends who you are and how you act. If you look like a gangster....Well forget about it. Most mags these days don't have a actual date code stamped on them and that's how they get around the issue. Guns allways make a good topic.

72 Hondo
08-25-2005, 03:39 AM
Colt Gold Cup :D
a-men to that!!!!!
Most comfortable hand gun I´ve ever shot.

rivergoer
08-25-2005, 03:56 AM
Does anyone have any experiance or advice on .45's?
It's got to be a double stack mag with a 10 + cap.
So far i'm looking at the Para Ordinance Para LDA TX1445S Or
A Kimber, not sure which model Kimber. Their web site sucks.
I've shot the Para before and like the feel. It was recomended by a friend who used to be Long Beach PD.
Any comments? never used a para before so i cant judge it..but kimber makes a really durable gun real good quality.

Jbb
08-25-2005, 06:07 AM
I have a Crossman air rifle. .177 pellets.
Me thinks it's time for operation feline... :idea:
Here kitty kitty.... :)

STV_Keith
08-25-2005, 07:08 AM
Again I'd suggest the .40S&W round. 10mm has more punch, but more recoil too. A lot of LE's are going to/have gone to the .40 because of the ballistics. Better than 9mm with about the same recoil.
Also, if you're stuck on .45, check out the Glock 36/37/38 that's 45GAP (Glock Automatic Pistol). It's a shorter round than the stock .45ACP but packs the same punch. Gets the grip size down to where you can get smaller hands around it again.

Riverkid
08-25-2005, 07:15 AM
Hey Keith, what's the best platform right now in your opinion for a .40? My neighbor wants one and I don't have anything in that cal...

Liberator TJ1984
08-25-2005, 07:37 AM
Here's mine :cool:
http://www.wilsoncombat.com/images/product/WKZ-A-SS.jpg
Gauranteed to shoot 1-1/2" groups at 25 yards
and the polymer grip is alot narrower than a std.1911 but still accepts Hi-Cap . mag.

KineticoH20
08-25-2005, 09:47 AM
What this all means is this, yes we have armed forces, but if you ever think about invading the good old USA . We would have one hell of a civilian front line :boxingguy

djunkie
08-25-2005, 10:23 AM
Here kitty kitty.... :)
Many childhood memories there :D

djunkie
08-25-2005, 10:24 AM
What this all means is this, yes we have armed forces, but if you ever think about invading the good old USA . We would have one hell of a civilian front line :boxingguy
Ya don't come near my house. Anything within 300 yards gets a head shot :devil:

STV_Keith
08-25-2005, 11:29 AM
What this all means is this, yes we have armed forces, but if you ever think about invading the good old USA . We would have one hell of a civilian front line :boxingguy
Speaking of, did anyone watch Red Dawn last night? Man, I love that movie. I heard it was the first movie to get a PG-13 rating, and went into the Guinness Book for most violence in 1984.

OGShocker
08-25-2005, 11:32 AM
Speaking of, did anyone watch Red Dawn last night? Man, I love that movie. I heard it was the first movie to get a PG-13 rating, and went into the Guinness Book for most violence in 1984.
"Boys!, REVENGE MEEEEEEE!!"

STV_Keith
08-25-2005, 11:36 AM
Hey Keith, what's the best platform right now in your opinion for a .40? My neighbor wants one and I don't have anything in that cal...
Well, after being a 1911 guy for a long time, I switched to Glock after one good training course at FrontSight. Just so much less to do (no thumb safety was the big one for me - my thumb was sore for a week), and less to go wrong. The G27 fits my hand nice, and I'm actually more accurate with it than my G22 full size.
The best bet is to go handle one and see what he's most comfortable with.

sintax
08-25-2005, 12:28 PM
Hey Keith, what's the best platform right now in your opinion for a .40? My neighbor wants one and I don't have anything in that cal...
I'd have to suggest going and taking a look at the Springfield XD, you can get it in a standard size 4" (service) 5" (tactical) as well as a smaller sub-compact frame.
They are great and feel good in big hands as well as small hands. They have a safety system on them like the glocks, but slightly different. They have the standard trigger pull safty as well as the one on the back of the grip. I love the pulls the DA/SA has as well. Best of all, (like glocks) you can pick up a 9mm or .357 conversion barrel for these for cheap plinking as well. (the .357 is far from cheap, was more refering to the 9mm.)
you can have him check out www.hs2000talk.com they have a great board on there too, just not as many hot chicks as ***boat for some reason ;)

PalapaHead
08-25-2005, 12:38 PM
Say hello to my little friend.....
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/11650Barrett.jpg

Riverkid
08-25-2005, 01:04 PM
^^^ I'd like to see you shoot that thing one handed! :2purples:

STV_Keith
08-25-2005, 01:57 PM
There is a reason for the bipod and carry handle. :)
PH, have you shot it much? How consistent is it out at 1000yds? I hear tha Barretts aren't all that great, especially the auto.
Irregardless, when I'm done building my AR-10, that's my next buy.

Sleek-Jet
08-25-2005, 02:37 PM
Speaking of, did anyone watch Red Dawn last night? Man, I love that movie. I heard it was the first movie to get a PG-13 rating, and went into the Guinness Book for most violence in 1984.
Wasn't "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom" the first PG-13 movie. Red Dawn much better movie though... cup of deer blood anyone??? :D
Back to firearms, my favorite gun for in the arsenal is my 1991a1 in .38 Super... :D

Stealth Marine
08-25-2005, 03:04 PM
Back to firearms, my favorite gun for in the arsenal is my 1991a1 in .38 Super... :D
Since we are on the general topic of Guns here...
I am in the hunt for a new GunSafe and am considering one of the Heritage Ultimate Series.
http://www.heritagesafe.com/ultimate.html
Anyone have any STRONG feelings on this unit or another similar one??
I am looking for something VERY strong that will be permanently bolted to the floor in the house for both guns and other valuables.

Riverkid
08-25-2005, 03:21 PM
That's a nice safe. We bought a Cannon last year from the outfit behind Commander off the 91 in Corona. Felt sorry for the guys that had to horse it into my office on delivery day. Heavy focker! Get a big one, because they fill up fast! :D

Sleek-Jet
08-25-2005, 03:24 PM
That's a nice safe. We bought a Cannon last year from the outfit behind Commander off the 91 in Corona. Felt sorry for the guys that had to horse it into my office on delivery day. Heavy focker! Get a big one, because they fill up fast! :D
I ordered a Cannon and never got it... nice safes and the service guarante is awesome. I need to go try and buy another one.

Mighty Thor
08-25-2005, 03:33 PM
I have Colts, Kimbers, and LLamas($200. and shoots to piont of aim what can I complain about) The Kimber out of the box was the best of the bunch with excellent trigger and action. I have compared a friend's Springfield to my kimber and the Springfield may have had a slightly better trigger but also was more money. In a real use situation there would be no noticable difference. The Kimber also ran smoothly on reloads that choked up one of the LLamas. accuracy was excellent as well, 9 shots all touching at 25 yards.

riverracerx
08-25-2005, 04:08 PM
I have an original Stainless Colt .45 hardballer that was passed down from my grandfather. Mint condition. Really nice piece. I also have a Ruger P95. Gotta get used to the weight distribution on it though. It is top heavy with the composite frame.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/ruger_P95_new.gif

77charger
08-25-2005, 04:16 PM
I have an original Stainless Colt .45 hardballer that was passed down from my grandfather.
[img]
very nice gun my first .45 i shot was an uncles 1911 gvmnt model series 70 in nickel plated gun is worth some bucks today he paid like 150 for it.Still has it today i tried to buy it from him no sell. :frown:

Stealth Marine
08-26-2005, 09:50 AM
That's a nice safe. We bought a Cannon last year from the outfit behind Commander off the 91 in Corona. Felt sorry for the guys that had to horse it into my office on delivery day. Heavy focker! Get a big one, because they fill up fast! :D
Any particular reason you went with the Canon?

cdog
08-26-2005, 09:54 AM
Has anyone here done the .50 cal upper on a AR-15 yet? That sounds like a kick in the ass. It's suppost to kick like a 20 gauge. My AR shoots like a 22.

STV_Keith
08-26-2005, 10:04 AM
I assume you mean 50BMG, not .50 Beowulf. I have a friend with the Beowulf and while it is .50, it doesn't have anything near or remotely like the power of the BMG.
I have seen bolt action 50BMG uppers, but figured if I was going to do it, I'd DO IT. :)

cdog
08-26-2005, 10:08 AM
I assume you mean 50BMG, not .50 Beowulf. I have a friend with the Beowulf and while it is .50, it doesn't have anything near or remotely like the power of the BMG.
I have seen bolt action 50BMG uppers, but figured if I was going to do it, I'd DO IT. :)
That must be it then. I read about it in the cabelas catolog. You use the AR-15 Lower and use the 50bmg upper. For big game. The ammo is pricy$$$$$$$$$$

djunkie
08-26-2005, 10:59 AM
Since we are on the general topic of Guns here...
I am in the hunt for a new GunSafe and am considering one of the Heritage Ultimate Series.
http://www.heritagesafe.com/ultimate.html
Anyone have any STRONG feelings on this unit or another similar one??
I am looking for something VERY strong that will be permanently bolted to the floor in the house for both guns and other valuables.
Get the biggest and best you can afford. And please get the highest fire rating available. I got lucky with mine. We bought a cheaper Sentry cause I got a good deal on it. We just had a fire in our garage lately where the safe was and everyone said the guns would be ruined. We got lucky. Everything was fine. This is the safe I had. http://www.sentrysafe.com/Products.asp?r=22&s=159
This is what it looked like after the fire
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1768House_Fire_036_Medium_.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1768House_Fire_056_Medium_.jpg

Liberator TJ1984
08-26-2005, 11:07 AM
cdog , in Cabella's , that would be the Beowolf round for the AR kinda like a 454 Casull round, not Near what the 50BMG is. Looked at one BMG Upper for my AR but it is still a single shot due to the length of the BMG cartridge , maybe someday I will get one :crossx:
and to those thinking about a SAFE !!! Do It !!! you can get a damn good one for about $ 1500 on up...I bought a 16 gun Liberty Safe >800# empty, one of the best investments I have ever made and piece of mind when away from home...just think ....one Good rifle will set you back over a grand ea.....I've probably got at least $ 4500 alone in my AR and accys... / my 45 Wilson pistol another $ 1500....etc....etc...
it don't take long to add up big $$$$$$$ especially with several high end guns..
One Burglary and all gone in minutes without one :eek:

Sleek-Jet
08-26-2005, 12:57 PM
Any particular reason you went with the Canon?
The big selling point with me was that if for some reason you can't get in the safe... either the mechanism is tweaked, or someone tried to break into it and focked it all up... Canon will pay to ship the safe back to their plant and open it and then pay to ship the repaired safe and your contents back to your house.
They were comparable to the other safe's in the price range. I ordered a Traditional Series 15-30 gun interior (30x60x28), in Silver with chrome hardware and I believe it was going to be right at 2000.00 delivered to the house. But the safe guy never called and last I checked he had sold my safe off the floor. The safe also had the capability of being bolted to the floor as well.

Riverkid
08-26-2005, 01:37 PM
^^^ pretty much what he said. We needed one, looked at several different makers and liked the Cannon overall the best. We bought one with the fancy finish and I don't think it looks out of place in my office at all. Now my wife on the other hand...

Stealth Marine
08-26-2005, 01:49 PM
The big selling point with me was that if for some reason you can't get in the safe... either the mechanism is tweaked, or someone tried to break into it and focked it all up... Canon will pay to ship the safe back to their plant and open it and then pay to ship the repaired safe and your contents back to your house.
THAT is a heck of a selling point!

Stealth Marine
08-26-2005, 01:50 PM
Get the biggest and best you can afford. And please get the highest fire rating available. I got lucky with mine. We bought a cheaper Sentry cause I got a good deal on it. We just had a fire in our garage lately where the safe was and everyone said the guns would be ruined. We got lucky. Everything was fine. This is the safe I had. http://www.sentrysafe.com/Products.asp?r=22&s=159
This is what it looked like after the fire
Looks like the bottom of the inside got a bit toasty??

Stealth Marine
08-26-2005, 01:54 PM
Get the biggest and best you can afford. And please get the highest fire rating available.
The unit that I am looking at carries a Class IV rating.
And they are advertising something called
Palusol® Fire Seal
Palusol® expands with development of foaming pressure under the action of heat. In the process a fine porous, compression resistant, non combustible, heat seal is formed. This seal fills joints around the safe door to provide superior protection against smoke and heat.
Don't know if it works or not, but it sounds good on paper.
http://www.heritagesafe.com/firesafety.html

djunkie
08-26-2005, 01:59 PM
The unit that I am looking at carries a Class IV rating.
And they are advertising something called
Palusol® Fire Seal
Palusol® expands with development of foaming pressure under the action of heat. In the process a fine porous, compression resistant, non combustible, heat seal is formed. This seal fills joints around the safe door to provide superior protection against smoke and heat.
Don't know if it works or not, but it sounds good on paper.
http://www.heritagesafe.com/firesafety.html
Mine had something similar to that. When we had the lock smith come out to open it after the fire, the door was stuck because of something similar to that.

djunkie
08-26-2005, 02:00 PM
Looks like the bottom of the inside got a bit toasty??
Actually the carpet on the bottom is black, thats why it looks that way. Believe it or not the guns were in perfect shape when we took them out. I did have all of them wrapped up in silicone socks though.

Stealth Marine
08-26-2005, 02:20 PM
Actually the carpet on the bottom is black, thats why it looks that way. Believe it or not the guns were in perfect shape when we took them out. I did have all of them wrapped up in silicone socks though.
So the safe did the trick 100%, and saved ALL the goodies inside it?

djunkie
08-26-2005, 02:27 PM
So the safe did the trick 100%, and saved ALL the goodies inside it?
It sure did. In fact after the fire was out the firemen told me that they really didn't think they would survive.
When we called the locksmith out to open it he lectured me on how cheap my safe was. Almost insulting me. Well after he drilled on it for 8 hours to get it open I went out and said " for a shitty safe it sure took you long enough to get it open". After he saw the guns were fine he sure changed his tone.

Stealth Marine
08-26-2005, 02:53 PM
EIGHT HOURS OF DRILLING to get the thing open??

djunkie
08-26-2005, 02:56 PM
EIGHT HOURS OF DRILLING to get the thing open??
Not bad for a POS safe huh? I'd say he had a new respect for Sentry gun safes after that. :D

77charger
08-26-2005, 03:01 PM
Well, after being a 1911 guy for a long time, I switched to Glock after one good training course at FrontSight. Just so much less to do (no thumb safety was the big one for me - my thumb was sore for a week), and less to go wrong. The G27 fits my hand nice, and I'm actually more accurate with it than my G22 full size.
The best bet is to go handle one and see what he's most comfortable with.
Glocks sure can shoot good and are reliable IMO.I just hate the triggers so i still prefer the 1911.Guys that shoot them say they take time to get use to once you do you like them.
good advice on the last sentence though try them aand see waht works.

River918
08-26-2005, 03:09 PM
H & K Usp .45.......

code8
08-26-2005, 03:14 PM
I carry a Glock 17. For me and the purpose of my job, I like the 9mm. Also I have a 17 round magazine and one in the chamber. If I need all 18 rounds, the Sh#t hit the roof tops and I'm in a bad situation.

Stealth Marine
08-26-2005, 04:00 PM
H & K Usp .45.......
Ahhh yes.
I too carry a H&K USP .45 Tac.
What a great weapon it is..

STV_Keith
08-26-2005, 04:03 PM
I assume you mean 50BMG, not .50 Beowulf.
I have seen bolt action 50BMG uppers, but figured if I was going to do it, I'd DO IT. :)
.50BMG upper on AR-15 lower, bolt action:
http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/8751/picture477ss3lh.jpg
.50 Beowulf upper on AR-15 lower, semi-auto:
http://img64.exs.cx/img64/4044/DSC02312.jpg
Now you've seen the real Barrett Semi-auto 50BMG above.

cdog
08-26-2005, 04:07 PM
Nice! Good to see. Whats the differance in the rounds? Their both 50 cal. Right?

Liberator TJ1984
08-27-2005, 05:14 AM
STV, who did you get your 50BMG Upper from :idea:
me Likey :D
should work great on the Groundsquirrels around here :devil:
50BMG
http://nas4.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/036045000/36045317/pix366143031.jpghttp://nas4.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/036404000/36404074/pix1031035500.jpg

STV_Keith
08-27-2005, 07:38 AM
Nice! Good to see. Whats the differance in the rounds? Their both 50 cal. Right?
Yep, both .50" I'm looking for a side-by-side pic.

STV_Keith
08-27-2005, 07:39 AM
STV, who did you get your 50BMG Upper from :idea:
me Likey :D
Actually, not mine. Pulled the pic from arfcom. I don't have anything in 50BMG yet.

Liberator TJ1984
08-27-2005, 10:44 AM
TOO bad :frown:
My next question was going to be , Hows the Recoil ??? :2purples: :D
those guys got some nice " Toys " on that website ;)
Just ordered a 100 rounds of this to try out and play with :D
http://nas4.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/036226000/36226505/pix669062875.jpg
This ammo contains a specially made 69gr. match grade bullet. This ammo is built identical to the 50 cal. Raufus and also has the sea green tip color. This ammo is twice as explosive as regular incendiary ammo. Upon impact you will get a bright flash and bang three times more powerful than standard incendiary ammo. This ammo will burn at 5000 degrees upon impact. This ammo was tested by a police agency in Florida and one round shot through the windshield to the interior of a car caught the car on fire and burnt it to the ground. Use EXTREME CAUTION, this ammo is highly flammable upon impact. This ammo is completely safe to shoot in any .223 / 5.56 weapon and will work great in any: AR-15 or Mini-14.

Liberator TJ1984
08-27-2005, 10:53 AM
What the heck....gimme a box of these Too :idea: :D
http://nas4.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/036230000/36230797/pix679245265.jpg
This is the best 12 guage flame thrower on the market. This 12 Ga. Flame Thrower ammunition produces an enormous wall of fire for 250+ feet. The incendiary metal compound contained inside burns when fired at over 3000 degrees fahrenheit, showering your target in a momentary wall of flame. WARNING! This ammunition is an EXTREME fire hazard. Do not shoot in any dry grass, foliage, trees, or near flammable materials. Please use extreme caution. This ammo is extremly dangerous and deadly. This ammo can be shot in any 12 gauge shotgun that excepts 2-3/4" shells.

cxr133
08-27-2005, 10:57 AM
Say hello to my little friend.....
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/11650Barrett.jpg
2 questions...
is this the 50 caliber??
arent they illegal in cali???

77charger
08-27-2005, 04:01 PM
.50BMG upper on AR-15 lower, bolt action:
Now you've seen the real Barrett Semi-auto 50BMG above.
heres a real barret 82 we go some shoots in the winter time.guy in our group took the pic with a digital slr camera.Talk about a strait shooting bullet. that mtn in the background is about 5 miles away
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/15barret82-01.jpg

Bense468
08-27-2005, 05:15 PM
One Word.
1911

STV_Keith
09-01-2005, 02:49 PM
Finally got that pic:
http://www.speedcraving.com/keith/bmg-beowulf-others.jpg

Boozer
09-01-2005, 03:29 PM
I just keep a couple of these in the glove box.
http://nas4.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/036469000/36469770/pix1170476718.jpg
Sorry officer thsi is my friends car??? :confused: :hammer2:

Boozer
09-01-2005, 03:32 PM
I just put this on Layaway at WalMart.
http://nas4.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/036644000/36644153/pix1516849093.jpg

Freak
09-01-2005, 03:49 PM
I've run thousands of rounds through my glock with never cleaning it. It has never let me down. Personal preferance is HK though. HK = very nice stuff.

STV_Keith
09-01-2005, 03:58 PM
On a similar but unrelated topic...anyone interested in taking the 2-day defensive handgun class at Front Sight on October 1-2 (Sat/Sun)? I'm thinking of going back for this one as a refresher to the 4 day class I took several years ago.
Here's some info on the class: http://www.frontsight.com/FirearmsTraining/Courses.asp?Action=View&ID=51