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cola
08-27-2005, 06:02 AM
I have been running 20/50 Mobil 1 in my HP500EFI and have 325 hrs. I'am thinking of switching to Swepco 305 50w. Merc says 20/50 & Teague & others say 50w Kendell. Anyone every run this stuff. I know it has won a Baja 1000 in a XR 600.
Thanks, Mike

Havasu Hangin'
08-27-2005, 07:17 AM
That all I run in all my vehicles- motor oil, tranny fluid, dif fluid, outdrive oil...great stuff.

Beer-30
08-27-2005, 07:35 AM
I stick with Mobil-1 for engines and Torco for the gears. All of Torco's synthetic gear lubes are GL-6 instead of everyone elses GL-5.

voodoomedman
08-27-2005, 07:43 AM
Mobil 1 in my vehicles and Aaron at Absolute puts Torco Racing in my boat.

Havasu Hangin'
08-27-2005, 07:50 AM
Synthetic guys are almost as blind...errr..."brand loyal" as the DCB guys!
www.bobistheoilguy.com
PS- Guess who Nor-Tech uses?

2Driver
08-27-2005, 08:19 AM
oil's oil. BTW: the guy who stood on the pegs and held onto the handle bars won baja. :idea: :D

voodoomedman
08-27-2005, 08:24 AM
oil's oil. BTW: the guy who stood on the pegs and held onto the handle bars won baja. :idea: :D
Next time your in Mexico drink the water. Water is water right? Wrong. It depends on what's in the stuff. The parasites in Mexico water will make you sick. Just like all the ash in Pennzoil will gum up and harm your engine if you don't religously change your oil at 3000 miles.

2Driver
08-27-2005, 08:28 AM
Next time your in Mexico drink the water. Water is water right? Wrong. It depends on what's in the stuff. The parasites in Mexico water will make you sick. Just like all the ash in Pennzoil will gum up and harm your engine if you don't religously change your oil at 3000 miles.
I wasn't talking about water dude. But, agreed, I'd toss out the bottom feeders in my general statement ie Albertson's 10W-30 :)

voodoomedman
08-27-2005, 08:31 AM
I wasn't talking about water dude. But, agreed, I'd toss out the bottom feeders in my general statement ie Albertson's 10W-30 :)
The water was just a comparison to prove my point. But I would agree with getting rid of bottom feeders. When you get up to the good ones the it is most definately arguable as to which one is best. Just like our boats. They are all good boats. Some better than others but it's arguable as to who makes the best.

Havasu Hangin'
08-27-2005, 08:32 AM
Just like our boats. They are all good boats. Some better than others but it's arguable as to who makes the best.
My boat is better than your boat- just like my oil.
:D

voodoomedman
08-27-2005, 08:45 AM
My boat is better than your boat- just like my oil.
:D
Hey now!!!!!

Beer-30
08-27-2005, 09:38 AM
Hey, now. Everyone has their specific brands and flavors of oils. Of course, any oil will keep the motor(s) alive. It's just how well you want to treat your stuff. If synthetics are not any better than regular, why are they not-recommended for break-in? Because they are too slippery to allow proper ring seatage - or at least that is the theory. Or the theory about it being too slippery for rollers with low spring pressure? I, for one, don't see that commonly happening, although I am sure it could in an extreme case. If so, a lot of excellent quality regular oils, racing variety and such, would do the same thing. Since they are probably real close in slickness. Neither of my motors use more or less on Mobil-1 than before, but the oil sure is much cleaner at drain time!

LHC30Victory
08-27-2005, 09:53 AM
Hydrocruiser on Offshore Only.com did a VERY extensive research piece on motor oil, mostly centered on synthetics. I bet if ya go and find it (there are two threads at least - look for the long one) if your answer isn't there, then post the question and you will get an " expert" answer.

Ivan Dan
08-27-2005, 09:59 AM
Anyone every run this stuff. I know it has won a Baja 1000 in a XR 600.
Thanks, Mike
The only thing we will run in our race truck (Class 7 Ford Ranger) is Swepco. With the exception of 2004 we won 4 straight SCORE championships and we are leading the points championship right now for this year as well. This includes several San Felipe 250's, Baja 500's and Baja 1000 wins.

Havasu Hangin'
08-27-2005, 10:17 AM
The only thing we will run in our race truck (Class 7 Ford Ranger) is Swepco. With the exception of 2004 we won 4 straight SCORE championships and we are leading the points championship right now for this year as well. This includes several San Felipe 250's, Baja 500's and Baja 1000 wins.
Give it up, Dan. These synthetic guys don't want to hear it.
The next thing you know, they'll be some guy on here named "Synthetic Oil 4 Life" talking about how all the dinosaur stuff sucks (even though he's never tried anything else)... :notam:
:D

Beer-30
08-27-2005, 10:22 AM
Give it up, Dan. These synthetic guys don't want to hear it.
The next thing you know, they'll be some guy on here named "Synthetic Oil 4 Life" talking about how all the dinosaur stuff sucks (even though he's never tried anything else)... :notam:
:D
Instead of being so grumpy, you should be happy us "synthetic guys" are leaving more dino stuff for you. It's all good, man! Relax.

Havasu Hangin'
08-27-2005, 10:27 AM
Instead of being so grumpy, you should be happy us "synthetic guys" are leaving more dino stuff for you. It's all good, man! Relax.
This is relaxed for me...
...you should see me when I'm stressed!
:D

Beer-30
08-27-2005, 10:30 AM
And, it's not that I don't think that regular oil is good. One of my X-bosses ran Baja 1000 for years. He popped a hole in the oil pan of his 700 HP Traco 401 that powered his CJ-7. He was always runnin Valvoline 10-40 Racing. He was fluctuating pressure 0-20 about 10 miles from finish. He crossed the finish line at full power having 0 pressure for the final 5 miles. Ya can't argue with that. He, to this day, runs Valvo 10-40 in everything because of that race.

cola
08-27-2005, 02:40 PM
Hey, now. Everyone has their specific brands and flavors of oils. If synthetics are not any better than regular, why are they not-recommended for break-in? Because they are too slippery to allow proper ring seatage the oil sure is much cleaner at drain time!
Vets roll off the line with Mobil 1 in the pan. ???
I change the oil every 25 hrs. & a friend thats runs a race team droped off a case of Swepco 305 50w & said to run it till I tear it down & he wants to look at it. I told him I was going to run it atleast 700 - 800 hrs before I open it up. No problem I'll drop off a couple more cases. Beets $ 35 + per oil change with the Mobil 1.
Thanks, Mike

Havasu Hangin'
08-27-2005, 03:54 PM
Vets roll off the line with Mobil 1 in the pan. ???
I change the oil every 25 hrs. & a friend thats runs a race team droped off a case of Swepco 305 50w & said to run it till I tear it down & he wants to look at it. I told him I was going to run it atleast 700 - 800 hrs before I open it up. No problem I'll drop off a couple more cases. Beets $ 35 + per oil change with the Mobil 1.
Thanks, Mike
Swepco 205 has very good cling properties.
I first heard about it from it's heavy equipment reputation (trucks, cranes, generators, etc.). Those guys are very hard on oil.

cola
08-27-2005, 04:20 PM
Swepco 205 has very good cling properties.
I first heard about it from it's heavy equipment reputation (trucks, cranes, generators, etc.). Those guys are very hard on oil.
What oil do you run, 305 or 205 7 what weight.

Havasu Hangin'
08-27-2005, 04:22 PM
What oil do you run, 305 or 205 7 what weight.
306 20/50 in the boat.

Dusty Times
08-27-2005, 09:33 PM
Swepco 205 has very good cling properties.
I first heard about it from it's heavy equipment reputation (trucks, cranes, generators, etc.). Those guys are very hard on oil.
WE ARE NOT!!!!!!!!
Swepco is the shiat. It's the only oil that didn't break down when we were running it in off road racing. Especially in shock oil and that stuff gets a little toasty

YeLLowBoaT
08-27-2005, 10:34 PM
Just wondering ..... does in 1 use aviation oil in the boats?

Beer-30
08-28-2005, 01:16 AM
Just wondering ..... does in 1 use aviation oil in the boats?
Nope, but I use it in both planes. Shell 15-50 semi-synthetic, of course. Last 0-470 Continental went 2200 hours with a 1500 time-between-overhaul recommendation.

Sleek-Jet
08-28-2005, 01:45 AM
Just wondering ..... does in 1 use aviation oil in the boats?
You probably wouldn't want to do that.
Aviation oil is formulated different than automotive oil.
That and the cost would make you crap a brick. Last I checked AeroShell 15/50 is going for around 6.00/qt, and the straight mineral AeroShelll was around 4.00/qt.

YeLLowBoaT
08-28-2005, 12:46 PM
actually cost for me is 0. I was more worried about what "else" they add to it. I know that airplane engines are about the hardest working engines around.

Sleek-Jet
08-28-2005, 05:33 PM
They're the James Brown of engines.
YEAH... I feel good... :D
The truth though is that aviation oil has different additives in it to keep things clean (the additives are known as ashless dispersents) that are designed to work in large aircooled engines. They are not considered a detergent oil and would probably end up messing up a liquid cooled automotive engine.
From AeroShell's website:
AeroShell Oils and AeroShell W Oils are intended for use in four-stroke
cycle aircraft reciprocating piston engines. They are not recommended for
use in automotive engines converted for use in aircraft, and in these cases
the conversion shop should be consulted for proper oil recommendations.
The term "ashless dispersant" was given to aviation oils to distinguish them
from straight mineral aircraft piston engine oils. Automotive and heavy duty
truck engine oils contain ashless dispersants and ash-containing detergents.
They were traditionally called detergent oils (some aircraft operators
incorrectly refer to ashless dispersant oils as "detergent oils").
Because of the negative effect of ash on aircraft engine performance, it is
very important that ash-containing oils are NOT used in an aircraft piston
engine.
The reverse is also true. Never use an aircraft piston engine oil in a
modern automobile or heavy duty truck engine.
Due to differences in metallurgy, operating conditions and fuel
specifications, an aircraft oil will not meet all of the automobile/heavy-duty
engine’s requirements. In addition, the aviation oils are not qualified for this
application and their use could result in voiding the warranty and/or
reduction in engine life.
Thus automobile oils MUST NOT be used in aircraft engines which use or
specify SAE J-1899 or J-1966 oils. Similarly aviation oils MUST NOT be
used in automobile engines.

Beer-30
11-13-2005, 12:28 AM
This article copied from a webpage is lengthy, but interesting:
Ten Myths About Synthetic Motor Oils
by: Ed Newman
Synthetic motor oils have been the object of numerous misconceptions held by the general public. Many people, including some mechanics, have been misled by these persistent myths.
The Synthetic Oil Debate
Synthetic motor oils are fuel efficient, extended life lubricants manufactured from select base stocks and special purpose additives. Synthetic oil base stocks are made from organic compounds or synthetic hydrocarbons using a process that re-arranges the structure so all the molecules are uniform in size, shape and weight, a phenomenon that does not occur in nature. In contrast to petroleum oils which are pumped from the earth and refined, synthetics are custom-designed to produce, in effect, the ideal lubricant.
In responding to the objections most commonly raised against synthetics it is important to establish the parameters of the debate. When speaking of synthetic motor oils, this article is defending the lubricants which have been formulated to meet the performance standards set by the American Petroleum Institute (API). (The first such synthetic motor oil independently tested and confirmed to meet these industry-accepted tests for defining engine oil properties and performance characteristics was AMSOIL 100% Synthetic 10W-40 in 1972.)
Many people with questions about synthetics haven't known where to turn to get correct information. Is it super oil or snake oil? Some enthusiasts will swear that synthetics are capable of raising your car from the dead. On the other hand, the next fellow asserts that synthetics will send your beloved car to an early grave. Where's the truth in all this?
In an effort to set the record straight, we've assembled here ten of the more persistent myths about synthetic motor oils to see how they stack up against the facts.
Synthetic motor oils damage seals.
Untrue. It would be foolhardy for lubricant manufacturers to build a product that is incompatible with seals. The composition of seals presents problems that both petroleum oils and synthetics must overcome. Made from elastomers, seals are inherently difficult to standardize.
Ultimately it is the additive mix in oil that counts. Additives to control seal swell, shrinkage and hardening are required, whether it be a synthetic or petroleum product that is being produced.
Synthetic oils are too thin to stay in the engine.
Untrue. In order for a lubricant to be classified in any SAE grade (10W-30, 10W-40, etc.) it has to meet certain guidelines with regard to viscosity ("thickness").
For example, it makes no difference whether it's 10W-40 petroleum or 10W-40 synthetic, at -25 degrees centigrade (-13F) and 100 degrees centigrade (212 degrees F) the oil has to maintain a standardized viscosity or it can't be rated a 10W-40.
Synthetic oils cause cars to use more oil.
Untrue. Synthetic motor oils are intended for use in mechanically sound engines, that is, engines that don't leak. In such engines, oil consumption will actually be reduced. First, because of the lower volatility of synlubes. Second, because of the better sealing characteristics between piston rings and cylinder walls. And finally, because of the superior oxidation stability (i.e. resistance of synthetics against reacting with oxygen at high temperatures.)
Synthetic lubricants are not compatible with petroleum.
Untrue. The synthesized hydrocarbons, polyalphaolefins, diesters and other materials that form the base stocks of high-quality name brand synthetics are fully compatible with petroleum oils. In the old days, some companies used ingredients that were not compatible, causing quality synlubes to suffer a bum rap. Fortunately, those days are long gone.
Compatibility is something to keep in mind, however, whether using petroleum oils or synthetics. It is usually best to use the same oil for topping off that you have been running in the engine. That is, it is preferable to not mix your oils, even if it is Valvoline or Quaker State you are using. The reason is this: the functions of additives blended for specific characteristics can be offset when oils with different additive packages are put together. For optimal performance, it is better to use the same oil throughout.
Syntheticmotor oils are not readily available.
Untrue. This may have been the case two decades ago when AMSOIL and Mobil 1 were the only real choices, but today nearly every major oil company has added a synthetic product to their lines. This in itself is a testament to the value synthetics offer.
Synthetic lubricants produce sludge.
Untrue. In point of fact, synthetic motor oils are more sludge resistant than their petroleum counterparts, resisting the effects of high temperature and oxidation. In the presence of high temperatures, two things can happen. First, an oil's lighter ingredients boil off, making the oil thicker. Second, many of the complex chemicals found naturally in petroleum base stocks begin to react with each other, forming sludge, gum and varnish. One result is a loss of fluidity at low temperatures, slowing the timely flow of oil to the engine for vital component protection.
Further negative effects of thickened oil include the restriction of oil flow into critical areas, greater wear and loss of fuel economy.
Because of their higher flash points, and their ability to withstand evaporation loss and oxidation, synthetics are much more resistant to sludge development.
Two other causes of sludge -- ingested dirt and water dilution -- can be a problem in any kind of oil, whether petroleum or synthetic. These are problems with the air filtration system and the cooling system respectively, not the oil.
Synthetic oil can't be used with catalytic converters or oxygen sensors.
Untrue. There is no difference between synthetic and petroleum oils in regards to these components. Both synthetic and petroleum motor oils are similar compounds and neither is damaging to catalytic converters or oxygen sensors. In fact, because engines tend to run cleaner with synthetics, sensors and emission control systems run more efficiently and with less contamination.
Synthetic oils void warranties.
Untrue. Major engine manufacturers specifically recommend the use of synthetic lubricants. In point of fact, increasing numbers of high performance cars are arriving on showroom floors with synthetic motor oils as factory fill.
New vehicle warranties are based upon the use of oils meeting specific API Service Classifications (for example, SJ/CF). Synthetic lubricants which meet current API Service requirements are perfectly suited for use in any vehicle without affecting the validity of the new car warranty.
In point of fact, in the twenty-eight years that AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants have been used in extended service situations, over billions of miles of actual driving, these oils have not been faulted once for voiding an automaker's warranty.
Synthetic oils last forever.
Untrue. Although some experts feel that synthetic base stocks themselves can be used forever, it is well known that eventually the additives will falter and cause the oil to require changing. Moisture, fuel dillution, and the by-products of combustion (acids and soot) tend to use up additives in an oil, allowing degradation to occur.
However, by "topping off", additives can be replenished. Through good filtration and periodic oil analysis, synthetic engine oils protect an engine for lengths of time far beyond the capability of non-synthetics.
Synthetic oils are too expensive.
Untrue. Tests and experience have proven that synthetics can greatly extend drain intervals, provide better fuel economy, reduce engine wear and enable vehicles to operate with greater reliability. This more than offsets initial price differences. All these elements combine to make synthetic engine oils more economical than conventional non-synthetics.
In Europe, synthetics have enjoyed increasing acceptance as car buyers look first to performance and long term value rather than initial price. As more sophisticated technology places greater demands on today's motor oils, we will no doubt see an increasing re-evaluation of oil buying habits in this country as well.
Conclusions on Synthetic Motor Oil
Since their inception, manufacturers of synthetic motor oils have sought to educate the public about the facts regarding synthetics, and the need for consumers to make their lubrication purchasing decisions based on quality rather than price. As was the case with microwave ovens or electric lights, a highly technological improvement must often overcome a fair amount of public skepticism and consumer inertia before it is embraced by the general population.
But the word is getting out as a growing number of motorists worldwide experience the benefits of synthetic lubrication. The wave of the future, in auto lubes, is well under way.
Synthetic Oil
by: Ed Newman
About The Author
Ed Newman is Marketing Manager for AMSOIL INC., manufacturer of the original synthetic motor oil for automotive applications. He has published more than 200 articles as a freelance writer on a wide range of important topics.

wrath of cron
11-13-2005, 02:47 AM
I'm not a formulation engineer, but I do make oil additives for a living. Mobil 1 is the best...period. In the "big world" of oils Exxon and Shell make more, and more kinds of oils than anybody (aviation, marine (as in ships), industrial, etc.) A few years ago runor has it Jenkins did a bunch of dyno work trying to figure out h.p. and oils effects on it and EXXON had a synthetic that did the best but was never sold to the public (they decided it would be too expensive) second best was the Mobil 1 (and not by a lot). Mom and Pop oil cos. buy their base stock from an Exxon, shell etc. and have lubrazoil, Infinum, orinite make the additives...they will then blend them up. The additives are "tailored" for use (ie aviation, diesel etc.) and each company may have their own "secrets" but there realy are not too many secrets....Mobil uses the best base stock and buys the best additive packs, its just that simple. BMW motorcycle voids warranty if Mobil 1 is used because there is not enough friction to let the rollers in roller brgs spin. This is also why it shouldn't be used to "break in", it doesn't let things cut in. By the way ash dispercents ( the part of oil that keeps contaminents in suspension so the filter can remove them) are such a thing of the past......I can't remember ever making them. The best of the "non-synthetic" is Superflo, best base stock, best add pack.

sxpilot
11-13-2005, 04:10 AM
We have been using Swepco oil's in all of our heavy equipment with great results, switched from delco about 12 years ago...never looked back
Im the guy who services dads trucks and can say since we made the switch the engine has been a lot happier, only lost 1 turbo in 5 years and that was not contributed to the oil but rather the driver's lead foot..
Some synth is also good, but at 12 to 14 gallons a change every 3 months its really not to smart, especialy since the Swepco is superior :D :D
Stay away from aviation oil, its formulated for Air cooled engines, yes they run hard but I think a Boat runs just as hard as a airplane engine also a boat usualy runs twice the rpm as airplanes do, unless you're running a turbine in which case you would want to run turbine oil
Also a side note for the guys really concerned with your engine, a soap sample and oil analysis might save your pocket book, it will give you all the properties in your oil, after a few done you will see a trend and may be able to detect a early failure.
In aviation its smart business...engines in the 100k it only makes sence, and turbines in the 250k its foolish not to
but im no expert...and I drive a wacker so what the fuk do I know :cool:

Beer-30
11-13-2005, 08:19 AM
Yeah, I couldn't see heavy equip on Syn being a good move - unless it was a personal piece of equipment that only one person ran. They have their place.