Ugggh! I think I ruined my motor with the wrong OIL.

[Waveline24]

Hey guys,
I just finished the 20HR breakin on my rebuilt motor. It's a 1992 Merc 7.4l Carbed with Thunderbolt 4 and RAW Water cooling. It was running just fine for the 20HRs during the breakin. I used SAE 10w/40 QakerState oil.
Well...
At 20hrs I did the first oil change. Here is where I may have gone wrong. I used Mobil 1 5w/30 synthetic and a Purolator PURE ONE filter.
I started it up and got my oil pressure.
It was my plan to run it one more time before winterizing the whole thing.
Everything looked good. Headed for the lake. Got out there and was cruising along anywhere from 3000-4000 RPM. Then I took it to WOT at 4400 RPM. Just fine. No problems. Stopped and sat there on the lake relaxing. Started it up again WOT for about 3 mintutes, no problems. stopped and just sat there again relaxing. Feeling good bout the LAST run of the year and enjoying the fruits of the freshly rebuilt motor. Thought to myself. Well, lets head back to the marina and go home and get her ready for the long winter storage.
WOT for about 5 mins and Oil pressure was steady as always, all of a sudden I hear a clacking come on from from the motor but I dont really feel a loss in power. Of course I drop the rpms down to a crawl and the noise dies off. There are NO other boats in sight and I am very close to the marina. I decide to creep in there. The ticking was still able to be heard faintly. When I got to the dock we turned off the motor. Then started it again with the engine hatch open. A definite clicking could be heard. When I put it into gear and the RPMs dropped you could barely hear it at all. Then put it back to neutral and it came back. I bumped the throttle and the noise increased volume. It appeared to be coming from under the valve cover. At that point we put it on the trailer and headed home.
(I will try to leave out the part where in my upset state of mind, I thought I could leap and clear the big distance from the boat to the dock so I could walk around to the front of the trailer to winch it up onto the traierl. Well, you can guess what happend to me)
Ok, after I got home (and put on some dry clothes) I started the motor and used a homemade stethescope to listen for a more precise location of the noise. It really seems that it is in the valve cover area.
I then did a compression test of all 8. I got 120 on all of them. I assume this could be a good sign that my problem possibly in the top end.
I proceeded to pull the valve cover off, which meant pulling the manifold elbow and loosening the mainfold to get to the 2 tightspot bolts on the outside of hte cover. I was hoping maybe a rocker arm bolt had come loose. But no. they were all still torqued at 40LBs per the manual. This is where my engine expertice comes to a close.
My questions.
Is there any time where a noise like this is just something loose that can be fixed or no matter what, am I looking at tearing this down?
Could this be a rocker arm making noise even though they are all still torqued at 40LBs?
What do you think/suggest.
Please no bashing me for anything I have done wrong with this situation. I need/suggestions help not criticism. I have seen people post their problems before and got replies like "What the hell were you thinking............and so on" I am lost as to what do do next.
Thanks guys.

[Jordy]

Other than being torqued at 40lbs, does anything look out of the ordinary? Are all the pushrods where they should be? Did you check the valve lash with a feeler gauge? Was the noise more of a light tick or a heavy knock? Can you turn the motor over by hand and see what the valve train looks like in motion? Is everything moving smoothly? Are any of the rockers loose (back to the valve lash)? Does everything look like it's moving the same distance, that is, are all the intake valves moving the same amount? Are all the exhaust valves moving the same amount? Are the valve springs binding up anywhere?
That should keep you busy for a while. Hope it's something simple.
Jordan :D

[gnarley]

A 1992 engine??? Why are you using a 5 weight oil??? It's not a 30 weight oil! Do a search & read threads on oil. What are your clearances??? do you know what Merc specifies for oil on your engine? I bet it ain't 5 weight oil!
Well now that I chastised you I'll give you my opinion. It sounds like the rockers were loosing O/P due to the light oil & most oil delivery went to the lower end & was starving the top end hence the noise I think you heard. Change your oil & put the right weight oil in it for the clearances you have & go run it again & I’ll go out on a limb here but I think you will probably find the noise is gone. I think Merc specifies 40-weight oil, that’s a big difference from a 5 weight that has the capabilities of lubricating as a 30 weight!

[BrendellaJet]

sounds like valve train, could be an exhaust leak too. I had an exhaust leak recently, changed the gasket, still there, started thinking it was a rocker tightening, then a weld on my bassets let go and the primary tube separated from the flange-all this and I had been convinced that it was a tight valve/rocker combo. Im pretty sure now that it was an exhaust leak. Good luck.

[Livin Large 27Hallett]

Gnarley has a valid point. I would go for his idea before you worry too much.

[Waveline24]

Could someone recommend a good oil/filter to use on my motor? It is all stock except for the .030 bore.
Thanks

[Jordy]

I would run at the very least a 20W-50 multi-grade or 40w or 50w straight oil. That is a good point though.

[Waveline24]

How bout a brand of oil you like?

[Jordy]

Go with a Mobil 1 if you're running synthetic, otherwise I would run Valvoline. Filters, I would look at a Wix or K&N. Just my .02 but I do believe you get what you pay for.

[Waveline24]

Jordan I have only run the synthetic for about 1/2 hour now. Before that I was in the breakin with the 10w40 SAE.
What would you do at this point. Drain the 5w30 Mobil one and replace with??

[gnarley]

Will, What were the clearences in the lower end???
Pull the covers & make sure all valves are opening correctly! If so I recommend Valvoline 40 or 50 Wt racing oil! & a Wix 2 qt filter with the anti-drain back valve. I use 50Wt racing now & a NAPA 2 qt anti-drain back filter & I do this because I know it does NOT have tight clearances in the lower end! & I bet yours doesn't either. Do you have an oil cooler???
[ October 24, 2002, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: gnarley ]

[Liberator TJ1984]

Just a thought..but had the same thing happen to me kinda...new motor being run in on 10W30....oil psi steadily dropped ...flattened 13 of 16 cam lobes...motor builder chewed my ass out for using such a light oil...rebuilt running Valvoline Race 50wt. 2yrs. now no problems...when we drained the multi weight oil and it was still hot it looked like Water it was so thin.. wink
and I agree with the other guys ..drain the oil and look closely for metal ...etc..if fairly clean go with a single visc.oil and try running again at low to mid rpms and see whats up
[ October 24, 2002, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: Liberator TJ1984 ]

[Havasu Hangin']

Could be a bad lifter..
I'd check the valve train.

[RandyH]

HH has a good point. Easy to do now.
Kendall 20-50 and Wix has been good to me.
Good Luck. let us know how it turns out.

[Waveline24]

Gnarley, I don't know what my clearances are down there. I am going to change the oil today to a straight 40wt and see where am at that point. I need to get my friend over so I can have a second set of hands for turning over the motor and such. Thanks for all the help so far guys.
Cya

[gnarley]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Waveline24:
I don't know what my clearances are down there.

Who built the motor? Whoever built it should know what they were & checked them during assembly or you were done a dis-service & if they weren't checked how would anyone know if a part was mis machined or a defective bearing was installed if the clearence is unknown? I would expect around .002 to .0025 on mains & around .002 on the rods & this is just memory. A newer engine might be a little tighter & hence the need for a lighter oil but I'd bet yours is machined to the older spec's.
Also do you have an oil cooler? & do you have roller rockers?

[Waveline24]

Gnarley,
Whoa man. I just said I DONT know. You are right, I'm sure the builder knows all the details but he does'nt tell me those types of things as I have no knowledge in that area so it would go in one ear and out the other.
As for and Oil cooler, no I dont have one.
I don't have rollers.
Thanks

[missilemud]

the oil 50w valvoline fram filter = cure ...maybe
second trick could be some dirt in a push rod, assembly lube and blocking oil from there in that one rocker..maybe
third thing could be you already ruined the cam, a lobes wore off quicker than you think, and your chasing the demons from there good luck.

[superdave013]

With your location I think a multi weight oil should be used. It's not near as hot as it is where Jordy lives. I would think a Fram filter would be fine. You could use the fram HP series if you want. I run a Baldwin 279 filter but that would not be good if your engine still have the bypass in the oil adapter.
It sounds like your engine is pretty stock so what does Merc say to use? They put more reserch into it then all of us put together.
I do agree about looking at exhaust gaskets first. Next the valve train.

[Snowboat]

Take your oil filter off, cut the threaded end off with a filter cutter or a hacksaw. Cut 15 pleats or so off of the filter and squeeze them sideways in a vise, while wiping the oil off of it. When it is dry, pull the pleats apart and see if there is any metal in them. A little iron is OK, a little babbit is awful. Cut a filter every time you change oil and you will know what is normal.

[gnarley]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Waveline24:

I'm sure the builder knows all the details but he does'nt tell me those types of things .
As for and Oil cooler, no I dont have one.
I don't have rollers.
Thanks
Just for grins you should find out it helps. Also get any engine spec's for your engine like comp ratio, cam specs & timing. It could help you or someone else in the future if you decide to sell it! I found out the hard way about oil coolers as mine didn't have one & our boats are real similar. Mine would over heat the oil if I ran it around 3800 RPM or more for a short extended period of time & the whole upper end (rockers) started clattering due to the very hot & thin oil! I found out that it was supposed to have an oil cooler & installed it along with a better grade of oil & wa-la no more valve train noise & it's been great ever since! :)
As for the roller rockers if you were to put those on you could reduce your oil temp by about 75 degrees & pick up 15 to 25 HP then put rectrictors in the oil gallery to restrict the additional oil that is no longer needed up to the top end & that is then supplied to the lower end that really needs it :)

[TheDude7667]

First thing i would do is look at your oil, if you havent already poured it out. Do you See SILVER. If you see silver shards you have spun a rod or main bearing. Then i would take your valve covers off and check the springssss.Make sure no broky springs. And you also need to describe your noise better. Is it a real fast click. Or some ungodly sound.

[propless]

I tend to agree withe The Dude. Does the oil show any signs of glitter, if so time to pull the motor. If not, focus on the top end as others have stated on this post.
I prefer (based on great recommendations from this group), to hang with a 5-30 weight Castrol synthic oil, andhave been very pleased over the last the six+ months.
I also suspect the problem is minor and isolated to the top end. Lower end damage is loud and gets louder rather fast under load.
Best of luck - !

[waterslinger]

Dude WOT for more than 1 or 2 min is a no no with a new motor and any motor w/o a oil cooler.
Tick is from lifter full of thin hot oil or cam going flat from synthetic oil to soon.
Not as much power in synthetic as you think.
On the dyno in a 327 chevy super stock motor
580 hp at 8500 rpm. Went from 20/50 Valvoline
racing oil to 5/30 synthetic and only got 10 HP.
For your boat stick with 40w Valvoline Racing oil
and a good filter. Hope fresh oil will fix your tick. Goodluck

[flyinbrian]

When you lifted the valvecover, did you grab each pushrod to check for movement? Did you roll the motor over and try to wiggle each rocker when it's valve was closed?
You could have collapsed a lifter, wiped a lobe on the camshaft, spun a bearing.
Start with the valvetrain.
Do like they said and drain the oil.
Look for the silver as mentioned. That doesn't mean it's a bearing, it could be, but it could be a lobe on the camshaft too.
If the noise was coming from up top, I would tend to think you collapsed a lifter, (assuming you are running a hydraulic camshaft), or you wiped a lobe.
How long did you run the 10-40?
What did your break-in procedure involve?

[Waveline24]

Hey,
I did the break in for the first 20 hours with the 10w40.
The breakin was basically what was described in my Merc Fact Manual. No WOT for the first 10 hours. No cruising at the same RPM for extended periods of time.
I have put in some Valvoline 20w-50 and the tick is still there. I need to pull the valve cover again because we didnt try to move the rockers while the motor was cranking. I need to see if there is play when valves are opening/closing.
Thanks

[Waveline24]

Another day and hopefully I will have some time to look at this problem some more. My neighbor seems to think I can narrow down the search for the problem. He said if I start the motor and pull plugwires and listen for the sound to stay the same or go away.. He said if I pull and then put them back 1 at a time, I can get some information. If it does NOT go away, he said it would most likely be valvetrain. If it DOES go away, he suggests the bottom end has the problem.
What do you think of this?

[DUCKY]

I am just trying to figure out why in the hell you know what the torque is on your rocker arms.... If you have a hydraulic cam/lifters, you need to go through them and adjust them properly (By ear). If it is a mechanical cam, you need the cam card and run thorough them with a feeler gauge. If you went through your valve train with a torque wrench, I am positive that your cam and lifters are now destroyed. And why did you attempt to break in your motor with a multi grade? A fresh motor should be broken in with 30wt non-detergent oil for about an hour on the trailer, then switch to a regular oil, and complete break in on the water. I wouldn't run a multi grade in a marine engine at all. Multi grades are for automotive engines that keep a contstant temp. I won't spend the money on synthetics either. I run Valvoline 50wt racing oil in my motor, and change it every 20 hrs. If you are dead set on using a synthetic, try the Amsoil or Lucas single weight synhetics.
Just my $.02!

[Cantrip]

Definitley go with the thicker oil, I use 20-50 mobil 1 with a fram/mobile 1 filter. Do you have a high volume oil pan/pump ? I had a prob with my BBF, low volume pan/high volume pump, ran the pan dry at high rpm's, took out my cam bearings, got a nasty ticking sound at any rpm's over 1500 when warm, and didnt make much sound when cold, but it would let the lifters loose oil and the motor would loose power, needed a rebuild to say the least. Use thicker oil, see if that works, get an oil temp guage, take that thing out and put some hours on it and see what it does. Good luck

[gnarley]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DUCKY:
If you went through your valve train with a torque wrench, I am positive that your cam and lifters are now destroyed.
Just my $.02!
Ducky, I am sure that you don't know about stock mark V & VI BBC's you might know about mark IV's but the later style engines did away with adjustable rockers & are replaced by bolts that hold the pivot ball & pushrod guides in place. So yes they do get torqued! Just like some of the Fords which means that when a valve job is done the valves must be installed at the specifed height since you can't adjust them unless you change to screw in studs...
Just my $.04

[riodog97]

Waveline, save yourself a bunch of time effort and speculation. Valvoline 40wt racing and a fram HP8(short filter if space is an issue-besides you're not going to be leaving it on all that long).
Do your oil change,(check your oil and filter for metal, etc., if you haven't gotten rid of it in an exceptable, approved manner already(you know, like in the neighbors bushes or down the drain when no one is looking). NOW we're ready to play Mechanic!
Pull all of the plugs. Next pull the coil wire to the distributor(out of the coil). Now the distributor cap and wires.
Next, if you can cut-off the fuel supply-do it. If not it's really no big deal. If fuel pump is electric, disconnect wire,if mechanical-do what's easiest.
After oil change, if motor hasn't been turned over, do it now til you get oil pressure. After oil pressure, then you can pull the valvecovers,(putting some rags in the appropriate places to prevent mess). Give the valvetrain a visual inspection looking for anything loose, out of alignment, bent, broken, cracked, etc. Use a rag with no fuzz, strings, etc to wipe off any oil so you can see as much as possible, a flashlight helps as does a long slender probe.
Find anything yet? No. Next step. Get someone to turn motor over using the key(or remote button,I have no idea what your mech ability or equipt situation is) and using your homemade stethoscope, go down each side listening to each rocker, valve, spring assembly(for broken springs, dampeners). As the valves are going through the cycle, check pushrods, rocker action,etc.
Basically what you are listening for is consistency. The mechanical 'noise' should be even as all of the cylinders are "supposed" to be the same. If you haven't found anything amiss or that looks or sounds suspicious by this time, then from the sound of your post, it might be time to seek some help as it does not sound like you are familiar with the use of dial indicators and what not to begin measuring cam lobe deterioration. At this point in time, I, myself would just pull the top part of the motor apart(intake,) and see what I could find. You can usually find 'broken stuff', whereas 'worn stuff' isn't as easy to spot. Off the top of my feeble mind I would bet on a calapsed lifter from the use of too thin of an oil(if you have hydraulic lifters), if that's the case, replace ALL of them!
Getting brave are we? Okay, intake manifold off, put distributor back in place and be prepared to hold it as it is what connects the oilpump to the cam to make it work. Have someone turn over the engine again while you're looking at the lifters.
Between sight and sound you should have been able to find the problem by now. If not, then I would probably just go ahead and replace the cam, lifters, check the pushrods, rockers, balls, etc.(as long as you're sure the bottom end is ok). Put it back togather and use valvoline 40wt racing oil and a Fram HP4 filter. The filter is longer for more capacity(and does have a bypass). Use the straight 40wt oil, just don't come off of the trailer and nail the throttle. Wait until you're showing some heat in the motor before you tag it. You don't need the multi-vis oils, the synth oils, you can get by without an oil cooler if you're not going to run wot for long periods. You probably do not have a larger than stock oilpan so I would change the oil and filter after a long weekend or 12 to 15 hours. Oil and filters are CHEAP insurance. Sorry I'm so long winded tonight, must be no woman, run outa drugs and an empty likker bottle, actually I'm auditioning for a job as tech column writer so if the above doesn't solve your problem, JUST bring about $32,000. down here to SoCal and I'm sure we can take real good care of you.
Riodog
Go ahead kids, let the flamin begin! :p

[Cantrip]

yeah, what he said......... no flames coming from here rio, however, I would hope you don't have to go through all that drama for your problem, change the oil and use the 40wt, open your filter with a can opener (hack saw) and see if there are any metal shavings. If you see nothing in the filter, you might be in good shape, but for the most part, lifters should pump up with any oil in there unless you are loosing oil (i.e.-oil way too hot, levels low or bearings not tight enough to hold press. in the motor, which is what happend to me)Try this first, and if that does not solve your problem, I can almost guarantee you are going to need to do some investegetory work, like rio described so thoroughly above :D And if there is metal in your filter, kiss that motor good bye, chances are you spun a bearing, they bearings didnt wear in right or you just plain smoked em. And about the oil thing, if you have a stock pan, get a bigger one and change the oil 3 times a year, no matter how many hours you put on it, that is more than enough, the original motor in my boat had the oil changed once a year and went 840 hrs and 25 years untill my brother smoked it.

[gnarley]

And did I mention that I had bad clacking & ticking sounds from the top end of my engine when there was no oil cooler... and it was run normal :(
And the noise went away after I installed an oil cooler... and ran it hard. That oil was damn hot & thin without the cooler to the point it couldn't keep the lifters pumped up eek!

[jet496]

If a person has been running synthetic oil is there a problem with simply switching back to natural oil? I wouldn't think so, but somebody mentioned it to me once. Kind of sticks in my mind.

[DUCKY]

I have worked on plenty of Mark V's and never seen the bolt down rockers as gnarley mentioned. His signature says it's a '92 7.4. It should still have adjustable rockers. If I am wrong about this, so be it. But the rest of my post still holds true.
[ October 27, 2002, 09:30 AM: Message edited by: DUCKY ]

[malcolm]

I agree with him, him, and him...
Sounds like a bum lifter. What rockers does that thing have(torqued down)?
Oh well greetings to a fellow Washintonian! :)

[Waveline24]

Ok, I finally have got some free time and will dig into the motor today. As for my rockers, I dont know what KIND they are. The factory Mercruiser Service manual says Torque bolts to 40lbs ft. There is no adjustment on this type. Well, I will post my findings here.
Thanks for all your input guys, I hope its in the valvetrain so I dont have to pull the motor out.
Cya