PDA

View Full Version : Hey all you love it or leave it guys......



Tremor Therapy
09-01-2005, 12:16 PM
You had a few threads telling us if we didn't like what was going on...leave!
Well in case you haven't noticed, the price of gas to the retailers had not changed as of last night, yet the 3 stations around my house raised the price of gas by at least $.30 per gallon! I don't know what they call it where you come from, but I'm calling bullshit on that!
What they are doing is criminal....they are profiteering on a natural disaster, and your fearless leader is one of them....watching it all the way to his bank account! There is a reason why your fearless leader's rating is at an all time low, and based on his inability to get anything worthwhile accomplished, it will go lower!
And just in case your patriotic brains don't get it...let me spell it out for you! Our economy is going to suffer severly! Trucking costs will go up, air fare will go up, and all durable goods that are shipped accross country will go up. It isn't all about whether or not you are willing to throw another $300-$500 of gas at your river trips.....it is are you ready to do that every month for the increased prices of everything? The record profits of the past year will only increase, and our leader is doing nothing about it! :mad:

Vada
09-01-2005, 12:18 PM
Agreed

1stepcloser
09-01-2005, 12:21 PM
So, What do you suppose we should do?

NOTALENT
09-01-2005, 12:23 PM
It sucks, but unfortunatley we have to deal with this bullshit...at least now bush is releasin our reserves...that will somewhat help the prices from jumping up much more...

NOTALENT
09-01-2005, 12:24 PM
So, What do you suppose we should do?
dude...please get rid of the SIG...everytime it pops up im like OH SHIT!!! haha NIGHTMARES I TELL YA, NIGHTMARES!!! :(

Vada
09-01-2005, 12:24 PM
So, What do you suppose we should do?
i have no f'n clue

Havasu_Dreamin
09-01-2005, 12:24 PM
:sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping:
Your leader? What, you don't ive in the USA? I didn't like Clinton, but he was still the leader of my country.

Vada
09-01-2005, 12:25 PM
dude...please get rid of the SIG...everytime it pops up im like OH SHIT!!! haha NIGHTMARES I TELL YA, NIGHTMARES!!! :(
I have to agree...it's way worse than Jbb's

Rod-64
09-01-2005, 12:25 PM
You had a few threads telling us if we didn't like what was going on...leave!
Well in case you haven't noticed, the price of gas to the retailers had not changed as of last night, yet the 3 stations around my house raised the price of gas by at least $.30 per gallon! I don't know what they call it where you come from, but I'm calling bullshit on that!
What they are doing is criminal....they are profiteering on a natural disaster, and your fearless leader is one of them....watching it all the way to his bank account! There is a reason why your fearless leader's rating is at an all time low, and based on his inability to get anything worthwhile accomplished, it will go lower!
And just in case your patriotic brains don't get it...let me spell it out for you! Our economy is going suffer severly! Trucking costs will go up, air fare will go up, and all durable goods that are shipped accross country will go up. It isn't all about whether or not you are willing to throw another $300-$500 of gas at your river trips.....it is are you ready to do that every month for the increased prices of everything? The record profits of the past year will only increase, and our leader is doing nothing about it! :mad:
It's the End of the World as we Know it..........and I feel Fine!....R.E.M. :D

HocusPocus
09-01-2005, 12:26 PM
since your so good at pointing out the problems, do you have any solutions? or is this just another "blame bush" deal?
btw.. gas where im at didn't go up 1 penny overnight. im not saying it wont.. just saying it didn't.

OGShocker
09-01-2005, 12:27 PM
your patriotic brains
I remember when this was not an insult.
Have you sent a letter to your congressman? You're Senator? The President of the United States of America? Do you have a suggestion on how we might change this? Do you have a solution?
Maybe you just need to go to the lake and relax.

CornWater
09-01-2005, 12:29 PM
Two words... Free Enterprise... unfortunately you have to take the good with the bad...
and btw, everyone is always crying about less government involvement, and now you want more government involvement??? Only when it benefits you?? Kind of hypocritical in my opinion...

SummitKarl
09-01-2005, 12:29 PM
I am with ya, watched the worthless SOB on TV the other night saying he couldn't do nothing about it, QUOTE "it's just the way the market works" all the while with this "SMUG A$$" grin on his face. It confirmend everything I have been thinking.....you know his fingers are in the pot.........because the same dam thing happened when his daddy was in office........BTW I am not a Democrat.

Chase
09-01-2005, 12:29 PM
Gas prices are going for shit here too...but all I have to do is look at Hocus' avatar...and then everything gets just a little bit better

HocusPocus
09-01-2005, 12:34 PM
Gas prices are going for shit here too...but all I have to do is look at Hocus' avatar...and then everything gets just a little bit better
then my work is done. :cool:

Vada
09-01-2005, 12:35 PM
I hate gas :mad:

SHAKEN Not Stirred
09-01-2005, 12:36 PM
and our leader is doing nothing about it! :mad:
Spoken like a true Socialist.....
What would you like him to do ????
Dip into the petroleum reserves ???
There are things that you can control & price fix......
and then there are things that you can't.....
I think he's got his hands full in other more important areas right now...
And....a record number of people are traveling again this holiday...
I still dump $130 worth of diesel in my Excursion 2-3 times a week...
I still dump $250 worth of gas in my boat 3-4 times a month....
Obviously people are not at that point yet....
I know I'm not........Maybe soon though!!!!
Later,
CJG
:wink:

Ziggy
09-01-2005, 12:39 PM
Go buy in Canada or Europe if you think its that horrible...we've been spoiled by the low prices all along while places like Europe have been paying for a litre close to what we pay a gal for a long time......
We are a country of mass consumption ,wastefully on many expendable commodities, not just gas.
.
Do I like the higher prices, hell no....but I also like to put things in perspective.

Vada
09-01-2005, 12:41 PM
Go buy in Canada or Europe if you think its that horrible...we've been spoiled by the low prices all along while places like Europe have been paying for a litre close to what we pay a gal for a long time......
We are a country of mass consumption ,wastefully on many expendable commodities, not just gas.
.
Do I like the higher prices, hell no....but I also like to put things in perspective.
I'm in Canada and it was up to $1.13 a litre this morning :burningm:

SHAKEN Not Stirred
09-01-2005, 12:43 PM
I'm in Canada and it was up to $1.13 a litre this morning :burningm:
What's that in REAL money ???
Isn't that like 0.16 US ???
Hehe!!!
CJG
:p

Chase
09-01-2005, 12:44 PM
Hey Vada....gas in Saskatoon right now is................................................ ...... FOR ALL YOU FREINDS SOUTH OF THE BORDER..............................
$5.0848 per imperial gallon.
SO QUIT BITCHING ABOUT $$4

CornWater
09-01-2005, 12:47 PM
Hey Vada....gas in Saskatoon right now is................................................ ...... FOR ALL YOU FREINDS SOUTH OF THE BORDER..............................
$5.0848 per imperial gallon.
SO QUIT BITCHING ABOUT $$4
Yeah, but you have good Health Insurance.... :D :D

Chase
09-01-2005, 01:04 PM
OK..here it is..
1 us Gal = 3.79l
3.79 x $ 1.12 = $4.2448
SO IT IS $4.2448 dollars / US gal
P.S. to you Vada...my post made it sound like you were bitching...not what I intended......just advising what the Saskatoon price of gas was.. :D :D

ROBINHOOD
09-01-2005, 01:06 PM
For what its worth.... Fuel here in Alberta, Canada went up .20 a litre. Keep in mind we have the lowest fuel prices in Canada as we produce it. An average pump price is 1.25 a litre for 87. As there are 4.5 litres in a US gallon... that works out to $5.63 a gallon.
OUCH!!!
You had a few threads telling us if we didn't like what was going on...leave!
Well in case you haven't noticed, the price of gas to the retailers had not changed as of last night, yet the 3 stations around my house raised the price of gas by at least $.30 per gallon! I don't know what they call it where you come from, but I'm calling bullshit on that!
What they are doing is criminal....they are profiteering on a natural disaster, and your fearless leader is one of them....watching it all the way to his bank account! There is a reason why your fearless leader's rating is at an all time low, and based on his inability to get anything worthwhile accomplished, it will go lower!
And just in case your patriotic brains don't get it...let me spell it out for you! Our economy is going suffer severly! Trucking costs will go up, air fare will go up, and all durable goods that are shipped accross country will go up. It isn't all about whether or not you are willing to throw another $300-$500 of gas at your river trips.....it is are you ready to do that every month for the increased prices of everything? The record profits of the past year will only increase, and our leader is doing nothing about it! :mad:

HM
09-01-2005, 01:08 PM
It's the End of the World as we Know it..........and I feel Fine!....R.E.M. :D
Ditto.

Chase
09-01-2005, 01:10 PM
For what its worth.... Fuel here in Alberta, Canada went up .20 a litre. Keep in mind we have the lowest fuel prices in Canada as we produce it. An average pump price is 1.25 a litre for 87. As there are 4.5 litres in a US gallon... that works out to $5.63 a gallon.
OUCH!!!
Check your math robin hood....4.54 liters in an imperial gallon NOT US gallon..3.79l in a US gallon

Jordy
09-01-2005, 01:11 PM
An average pump price is 1.25 a litre for 87. As there are 4.5 litres in a US gallon... that works out to $5.63 a gallon.
All you Canatards need to get your stories straight, or do you all use different litres and different US Gallons as well??? :idea:
OK..here it is..
1 us Gal = 3.79l
3.79 x $ 1.12 = $4.2448
SO IT IS $4.2448 dollars / US gal

HM
09-01-2005, 01:14 PM
Go buy in Canada or Europe if you think its that horrible...we've been spoiled by the low prices all along while places like Europe have been paying for a litre close to what we pay a gal for a long time......
We are a country of mass consumption ,wastefully on many expendable commodities, not just gas.
.
Do I like the higher prices, hell no....but I also like to put things in perspective.
Stop being such a dick....no one wants perspective. :D
Everyone likes to bitch when the law of supply and demand benefits the suppliers.

PHX ATC
09-01-2005, 01:15 PM
Good day Alan!
Sell the boat yet?
Have a great afternoon...say hi to momma and the kids for us! :rollside:

572Daytona
09-01-2005, 01:15 PM
And the reason we don't have enough refining capacity is because of all of the socialist-like states such as california that have such bullshit environmental and labor policies that won't allow refineries to operate or be contructed. The last places left in the US are that allow refineries are the southern (less government intervention) states and mostly along the coastline to allow for easier transportation. Unfortunately this allows for a single hurricane to take out a significant portion of the US's refining capacity. If we still had refineries in the West, Midwest and North East like we did 20-30 years ago, this wouldn't have been a major impact. In fact if it wasn't for Bush and like minded politicians in Texas, we would most likely have even less refining capacity in this country then we do today.
Next you will start joining the idiotic european socialists and start blaming the hurricanes and typhoons on Bush as well :hammer2:

Chase
09-01-2005, 01:15 PM
Check your math robin hood....4.54 liters in an imperial gallon NOT US gallon..3.79l in a US gallon
Come on JORDY..............don't you yanks read ALL of the posts

Jordy
09-01-2005, 01:17 PM
Come on JORDY..............don't you yanks read ALL of the posts
I do. Don't you Canatards look at the times they were posted??? Right around a minute apart, if that much. ;) :D

Chase
09-01-2005, 01:18 PM
:messedup: :messedup: :sleeping:

Jordy
09-01-2005, 01:19 PM
And the reason we don't have enough refining capacity is because of all of the socialist-like states such as california that have such bullshit environmental and labor policies that won't allow refineries to operate or be contructed.
Couple that with the greed of the oil companies and their "need" to take refineries off line in peak season for repairs on items that aren't crucial, but rather, are a smoke screen to skew the supply side, claim a shortage, and raise prices. Record profits for every oil company last year. Imagine that. Have a captive audience of consumers, double the price without significantly impacting your overhead, and see what happens to your bottom line. It's hard not to have record profits like that. :idea:

OGShocker
09-01-2005, 01:21 PM
Hey Vada....gas in Saskatoon right now is................................................ ...... FOR ALL YOU FREINDS SOUTH OF THE BORDER..............................
$5.0848 per imperial gallon.
SO QUIT BITCHING ABOUT $$4
That is like $1.25 USd I am coming back!!!

Tremor Therapy
09-01-2005, 01:21 PM
I got your Socialist bullshit rhetoric right over here! Oh and the "well then go to Canada and buy it" comments show ones true intelligence!
According to all of "you" he is the most powerful man in the world. If so....then start acting like it! Pull your head out, and lets get to the bottom of things and get them fixed.
We had the lowest price for gas because we decided to invest more into the process than anyone else. WE also let all the tree huggers decide to limit our capabilities....so WE have paid a price....not one that I ever signed up for.
Now onto the important things....like what, getting the 10 Commandments off the state building, trying to fight the abortion issue again, get a friggin lacky approved as a Supreme Court Judge? Please...don't try and use all the same yellow press b.s. on me. If he wasn't lining his pockets like all of the rest of them, this would be looked into and taken care of. The pundits have been preaching for years about our lack of refining capacity, our difficulty with drilling for our own supply, etc, etc, etc. It isn't news, and yes, I have written congressmen. I haven't just sat on my ass and complained, but when the thickheaded soles of the world just sit back and just bend over and take it, it makes the job tougher. And to those of us that are willing to hang it out there and call it like it is....more power to ya, it is by far easier to sit back and snipe someone with..."well go somewhere else", or "what are you gonna do about it", because that is all they are capable of.
And before I get all of you right wingers giving me grief over being a "Bush" basher, get the record straight.....I did vote for him. I felt he was the lesser of the evils up for election. So that gives me the right to bitch about the inability of his regime to get things done!

Chase
09-01-2005, 01:22 PM
That is like $1.25 USd I am coming back!!!
You are always welcome here Mark....just phone me this time...you Focker!! :cry:

Tremor Therapy
09-01-2005, 01:23 PM
Couple that with the greed of the oil companies and their "need" to take refineries off line in peak season for repairs on items that aren't crucial, but rather, are a smoke screen to skew the supply side, claim a shortage, and raise prices. Record profits for every oil company last year. Imagine that. Have a captive audience of consumers, double the price without significantly impacting your overhead, and see what happens to your bottom line. It's hard not to have record profits like that. :idea:
Gee,
Sure sounds like I joined the socialist european union...oh wait, I don't have to! The oil companies have found ways to improve the bottom line by screwing everyone....gee, guess I'm wrong again.

OGShocker
09-01-2005, 01:24 PM
I got your Socialist bullshit rhetoric right over here! Oh and the "well then go to Canada and buy it" comments show ones true intelligence!
According to all of "you" he is the most powerful man in the world. If so....then start acting like it! Pull your head out, and lets get to the bottom of things and get them fixed.
We had the lowest price for gas because we decided to invest more into the process than anyone else. WE also let all the tree huggers decide to limit our capabilities....so WE have paid a price....not one that I ever signed up for.
Now onto the important things....like what, getting the 10 Commandments off the state building, trying to fight the abortion issue again, get a friggin lacky approved as a Supreme Court Judge? Please...don't try and use all the same yellow press b.s. on me. If he wasn't lining his pockets like all of the rest of them, this would be looked into and taken care of. The pundits have been preaching for years about our lack of refining capacity, our difficulty with drilling for our own supply, etc, etc, etc. It isn't news, and yes, I have written congressmen. I haven't just sat on my ass and complained, but when the thickheaded soles of the world just sit back and just bend over and take it, it make the job tougher. And to those of us that are willing to hang it out there and call it like it is....more power to ya, it is by far easier to sit back and snipe someone than it is to say..."well go somewhere else", or "what are you gonna do about it", because that is all they are capable of.
WOW LakePirate! That was a great mindless rant. :hammerhea

Jordy
09-01-2005, 01:24 PM
gee, guess I'm wrong again.
Yeah, but you're used to that. Now go knit up another doily and relax. ;) :D

cdog
09-01-2005, 01:26 PM
And the reason we don't have enough refining capacity is because of all of the socialist-like states such as california that have such bullshit environmental and labor policies that won't allow refineries to operate or be contructed. The last places left in the US are that allow refineries are the southern (less government intervention) states and mostly along the coastline to allow for easier transportation. Unfortunately this allows for a single hurricane to take out a significant portion of the US's refining capacity. If we still had refineries in the West, Midwest and North East like we did 20-30 years ago, this wouldn't have been a major impact. In fact if it wasn't for Bush and like minded politicians in Texas, we would most likely have even less refining capacity in this country then we do today.
Next you will start joining the idiotic european socialists and start blaming the hurricanes and typhoons on Bush as well :hammer2:
Well said. You sir are a smart man. My friend is a mill right and works on alot of these refineries here in socal and on the west coast. He say's that clinton tightened up the laws so tight on the refineries that it made more $$$ sence for them to close them down, rather than repair them. If they cracked open the machine they'd have to do a complete retrofit mandated by good old clinton and gang, instead of a 1 million $ overhaul the refineries would have to do a 20 million $ retrofit. So they let them break, lay everyone off and up the price fo gas due to increased demand and low supply. I do blame bush to an extent. He tried to push a energy bill as soon as he took office but back then gas was 1.25 a gallon and everyone cried about Alaska.

Tremor Therapy
09-01-2005, 01:28 PM
Yeah, but you're used to that. Now go knit up another doily and relax. ;) :D
Damn it Jordy.....I knew I could count on you to save the day! :messedup:

Jordy
09-01-2005, 01:28 PM
He say's that clinton tightened up the laws so tight on the refineries that it made more $$$ sence for them to close them down, rather than repair them.
C'mon, not Slick Willy?? Not the guy who was more worried about getting laid and covering up his own criminal activities to take out Bin Laden when he was in the crosshairs. It's gotta be W's fault... :sleeping: :idea: :rolleyes:

OGShocker
09-01-2005, 01:47 PM
You are always welcome here Mark....just phone me this time...you Focker!! :cry:
I call! I am the guy that hangs up when YOU answer the phone. Tell Shar hi for me. :D

572Daytona
09-01-2005, 01:47 PM
Hmm...found this from a 2001 article:
Bush said the United States needed to boost its refining abilities and supplies of coal, natural gas and electrical power. While he said he was worried about hard-working people paying high prices at the gasoline pumps, he would not support cutting the federal gasoline tax.
"The reason why we have a problem at the gas pump at this particular moment in history is because we haven't built any refining capacity," Bush said. "When you don't increase supplies of a commodity, and demand continues to increase, the price is going to go up. And so our nation must expand refining capacity. And we've got to do that within our hemisphere. Otherwise, when you transport refined products from far distances, it doesn't meet market tests. So we need more refining capacity."
A task force led by Vice President Dick Cheney is scheduled on May 18 to announce the administration's energy policy. Bush will promote it during travel stops in Minnesota, Nevada, Iowa and Pennsylvania.
Unfortunately this isn't something that you can change overnite, the dismantling of US refining capacity has been a long time in the making to get to the sorry state that its in today and its going to take a long time to rebuild it. Unfortunately it takes something like this to be a wakeup call to all of the self absorbed politicians out there.
My dad used to work as a refinery manager for a large refinery in Illinois. They shut it down quite a while ago and my dad worked for years with a consultant that was trying re-open it for business. Unfortunately due to local red tape it never happened and all of the refinery equipment got sold overseas so they can reduce their capacity.

Chase
09-01-2005, 01:48 PM
YEah, I kinda figured that...Shar is always pretty quiet about her extra curicular guys with bigger....boats...
So are you going to meet us in Vegas??

Havasu_Dreamin
09-01-2005, 01:49 PM
The price of gas at the pump is controlled by supply prices by less than 50%. I read somewhere that the supply price of crude oil only contributes 40% to the price of a gallon of gas. The problem we're facing now is the price to refine that crude oil. I also saw on the news that US refining capabilities have now been decreased by 30% by Hurricane Katrina. Refining and distribution make up about 30% of the price of a gallon of gas. I'm sure there's a lot more to it, but it's definately about more than the price of crude.
Don't forget, President Bush himself closed all of the refineries and caused the hurricane. :messedup: :rolleyes:

Havasu_Dreamin
09-01-2005, 01:51 PM
We had the lowest price for gas because we decided to invest more into the process than anyone else. WE also let all the tree huggers decide to limit our capabilities....so WE have paid a price....not one that I ever signed up for.
Uh, is it 'we' as it was caused by all of because of allowing things to happen or is it President Bush which would be a singular person. Make up your mind.

OGShocker
09-01-2005, 01:53 PM
YEah, I kinda figured that...Shar is always pretty quiet about her extra curicular guys with bigger....boats...
So are you going to meet us in Vegas?? "US" or her?
I am not sure. We will try our best.

HM
09-01-2005, 01:53 PM
I also read somewhere about something of a friend of a friend of a really good source who is dating someone very high up in government that they store blood in big warehouses and have it on ice. Now, you should leave before they see us talking. :rollside: :rollside: :rollside: :rollside:

Dave C
09-01-2005, 01:54 PM
Price is dictated by supply and demand:
Supply goes down and demand goes up, the price goes up.
Supply stays the same, demand goes up, price goes up.
In California, we haven't built a refinery in god knows how long, our consumption in 10 years has increased about 18%, our supply in Cali has not gone up much, not nearly enought to cover increased demand. So our price of gas has steadily increased.
demand #'s from California (http://www.dof.ca.gov/html/fs_data/stat-abs/tables/j6.xls)
We have done this to ourselves and we have no one to blame but ourselves. We passed the laws that lead to this!
What we should do?
1) Provide incentives and ease regulations so companies can build more refineries ONSHORE. Whats the point of having them collect profits if they cannot produce onshore where the transportation costs are cheaper.
I heard an interesting statistic today. About 27% of our gas is refined off-shore. Why isn't that done here?
2) Stop the consolidation of the oil services industry. There are too few players for any real competition that keeps prices down.

Chase
09-01-2005, 01:55 PM
"US" or her?
I am not sure. We will try our best.
Well i guess I can go somewhere else while you two..........hey wait, is Denise going to be there???

ROBINHOOD
09-01-2005, 02:15 PM
I stand corrected
Check your math robin hood....4.54 liters in an imperial gallon NOT US gallon..3.79l in a US gallon

MagicMtnDan
09-01-2005, 02:25 PM
We had the lowest price for gas because we decided to invest more into the process than anyone else. WE also let all the tree huggers decide to limit our capabilities....so WE have paid a price....not one that I ever signed up for.
Alan, Alan, Alan.
Gas prices have skyrocketed because of supply and demand (and greed).
India and China (especially) have increased demand for oil like you wouldn't believe. I heard that only 1 person in 20 in China is driving. Just wait until 2 or 3 in 20 are driving! There's more demand for oil than there is supply of oil and refined oil products. Couple that with the lack of oil refineries and consolidation of oil companies (why did our government allow that?!) and greed and that's why we're going to see $4.00/gallon at the pump in the coming month.
Now the greed. Oil companies are public companies. Their goal is to maximize and increase profits for their shareholders. Every quarter they continue to post unbelievable, record, windfall profits. Numbers like $5 BILLION in the quarter for Shell, $4 BILLION in the quarter for Exxon, etc., are typical. Is this right or fair? It is in our capitalistic system. Now if our government were to either (a) set price controls (which was done in the 70's) or (b) take over the oil companies and use the profits for the country (as is done in Mexico - they own Pemex, their only oil company) then that's a different story.
We do need to tell the treehuggers to fock off and let the oil companies build more refineries (and drill for oil up in Alaska)!

Sportin' Wood
09-01-2005, 02:58 PM
According to Bloomburg radio it was the Venezulan owned Citco (sp) that was the first to ask for a loan from the federal oil reserve. Oh bad Bush you say? What about Hugo?

BBTAHITI
09-01-2005, 03:23 PM
The oil companies not only invented the game, they have perfected it (with a little govt help). Oil prices are not driven by demand, they're driven by futures. Reduce production to generate a "shortage" and it appears demand is high. Since the oil industry works on LIFO, the higher the price, the greater the profit. China didn't create the obscene profits for US oil companies. Face it people, we're being played..... and our elected officials are the (blindfolded) referees. It's time for regulation..... can you think of a BIGGER national security threat than higher (manipulated) prices driving us into a recession? Remember, when the govt tells you there's little inflation, they use CORE inflation figures (less energy). My bank acct doesn't work off core inflation.....

Big Warlock
09-01-2005, 04:53 PM
oil is only the raw material in the process. It makes up 33% of the total cost of the refined product. Doubling of the crude oil does not equal doubling of the price of gas at the pump.
Supply and demand is what is causing the rise in gas prices. Currently, 10 % of the US refining capacity is shut down because of Katrina. Not only the refineries themselves, but the transportation has been affected.
Refineries need to expand and new ones need to be built. This isn't fantasy. It's reality by every major expert in the field. We currently produce as much as we use. Any dissruption in the supply will cause a shortage. Then supply and demand take over. Want to do something right now? Stop driving. No boating. Stop all energy consumption. Prices will dive. Problem is, we'll bitch, but see you on the lake this weekend!!
It is America. You can always start your own oil company and cash in on the huge profits!! Kofe and the French did!
Good luck with that!
:hammer2:

ECeptor
09-01-2005, 05:17 PM
So, What do you suppose we should do?
Do THIS (http://www2.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90804) at a minimum. Or take it a step further and spend tomorrow on the phone with every elected official you can get a number for. Jam them up, let them know...just do something!

ROZ
09-01-2005, 05:18 PM
The oil companies not only invented the game, they have perfected it (with a little govt help). Oil prices are not driven by demand, they're driven by futures. Reduce production to generate a "shortage" and it appears demand is high. Since the oil industry works on LIFO, the higher the price, the greater the profit. China didn't create the obscene profits for US oil companies. Face it people, we're being played..... and our elected officials are the (blindfolded) referees. It's time for regulation..... can you think of a BIGGER national security threat than higher (manipulated) prices driving us into a recession? Remember, when the govt tells you there's little inflation, they use CORE inflation figures (less energy). My bank acct doesn't work off core inflation.....
I was going to post something like this, but you did a little better job... I also think all of the above reasons for supply problems have fueled, pardon the pun, the high futures....

Big Warlock
09-01-2005, 05:19 PM
I didn't mean to steal your thunder.
This kind of stuff really angers me. I can't believe what people think and say. With absolutely no facts behind them!
And solutions! Man we are all ears!! If it is indeed the opportunity to make billions, then you guys need to get together, mortgage your homes and get into the business!! If not, let me know what the barriers are!

ROZ
09-01-2005, 05:24 PM
oil is only the raw material in the process. It makes up 33% of the total cost of the refined product. Doubling of the crude oil does not equal doubling of the price of gas at the pump.
Fact..
Price of gas when it was 25.00 per barrel was around 1.70 per gallon... Now that crude is 69.32 cents per barrel, I am paying 3.00 per gallon for 87...
EDIT: 69.32 PPB is after th gov't okay releasing reserves...

ROZ
09-01-2005, 05:33 PM
Go buy in Canada or Europe if you think its that horrible...we've been spoiled by the low prices all along while places like Europe have been paying for a litre close to what we pay a gal for a long time......
We are a country of mass consumption ,wastefully on many expendable commodities, not just gas.
.
Do I like the higher prices, hell no....but I also like to put things in perspective.
Ziggy, Is that puting it into perspective, or rationalizing it only make it seem easier to handle in your mind :D

ROZ
09-01-2005, 05:40 PM
I don't know if you're intentionally proving our point, but in your example, the price of crude has nearly tripled while the price of gas hasn't even doubled.That's why I put around... I think the price was more liks 35 per barrel at a lower cost per gallon.. I left room for error... :D
BTW, It's beginning to look like you and I are the "Norms"(from Cheers) in the board :D

Jordy
09-01-2005, 05:48 PM
BTW, It's beginning to look like you and I are the "Norms"(from Cheers) in the board :D
You 2 are the fat guys at the end of the bar drinking all the beer? If you're speaking of the fact guru from Cheers, that would be Cliff Claven, the postal worker. ;)

Rexone
09-01-2005, 05:51 PM
Don't forget, President Bush himself closed all of the refineries and caused the hurricane. :messedup: :rolleyes:
I know, that really pisses me off too. :rolleyes:
He should have never allowed that hurricane to hit the US in such a vulnerable spot as New Orleans. When will the government ever learn? :rollside:

CA Stu
09-01-2005, 05:59 PM
So, What do you suppose we should do?
Use 10% less fuel.
Supply and demand, Economics 101.
Cheers
CA Stu

Havasu Cig
09-01-2005, 06:03 PM
You had a few threads telling us if we didn't like what was going on...leave!
Well in case you haven't noticed, the price of gas to the retailers had not changed as of last night, yet the 3 stations around my house raised the price of gas by at least $.30 per gallon! I don't know what they call it where you come from, but I'm calling bullshit on that!
What they are doing is criminal....they are profiteering on a natural disaster, and your fearless leader is one of them....watching it all the way to his bank account! There is a reason why your fearless leader's rating is at an all time low, and based on his inability to get anything worthwhile accomplished, it will go lower!
And just in case your patriotic brains don't get it...let me spell it out for you! Our economy is going to suffer severly! Trucking costs will go up, air fare will go up, and all durable goods that are shipped accross country will go up. It isn't all about whether or not you are willing to throw another $300-$500 of gas at your river trips.....it is are you ready to do that every month for the increased prices of everything? The record profits of the past year will only increase, and our leader is doing nothing about it! :mad:
Unless you are in the business you don't have a clue if wholesale prices have changed. I have received two Wholesale price increases just today and it's not over yet. Lets also take into account that I have a 42,000 gallon capacity at one of my stations and a load of gas is only 8800 gallons. It takes several loads over several days to just keep up with demand. We change prices based on what load we are down to in the tank. Just because you don't see a truck show up but you see a price change does not neccessarily mean the station is raising it's profit margins, but if they are there is nothing wrong with it.When you have people investing their hard earned money and time in a business they are going to try and make some money. I am sure you don't work for free.
I don't think making 4-6 cents a gallon of profit is by any means unfair. Gas sales are not where we make our money, it's the store sales, car wash etc... As fas as oil company profits are concerned you are right, but very few stations are company owned. I would say by some stock in an oil company.

HighRoller
09-01-2005, 06:04 PM
One thing that nobody talks about is the effects of "speculation" on oil prices. Today you'll hear that oil broke $80 a barrel. WRONG! The prices on oil "futures" are over $80. Oil is about $62 a barrel today. BUT, if people can make money based on where the prices will go, what is their most important tool? Bad news. Supply and demand is only half of the equation with oil. News is the other. The price in the supply chain of oil hasn't changed yet, but the price has. Why? Bad news. And the oil companies love that dirty laundry.....

Havasu Cig
09-01-2005, 06:15 PM
According to my rep there are about 1 million less barrels a day on the market due to the damage the hurricane has caused. Additionally refining capacity is down about 50 % so I think supply and demand is definitely in play here. I have already been notified that my allocation has been reduced and the fine is $1.00 a gallon for every gallon we buy over our allocation. The last time we had allocation issues was when I was a kid in the 70's and my dad had stations. This led to the gas crunch. We will see what happens.

ECeptor
09-01-2005, 06:20 PM
According to my rep there are about 1 million less barrels a day on the market due to the damage the hurricane has caused. Additionally refining capacity is down about 50 % so I think supply and demand is definitely in play here. I have already been notified that my allocation has been reduced and the fine is $1.00 a gallon for every gallon we buy over our allocation. The last time we had allocation issues was when I was a kid in the 70's and my dad had stations. This led to the gas crunch. We will see what happens.
Why do they fine you rather than just limit your allocation to some level?
Limiting by pricing is called gouging!

ECeptor
09-01-2005, 06:52 PM
If he owns a branded station, they may not allow him to be out of gas, to preserve the reputation of the station's brand name.
So the shortage is not a true shortage - not in the WWII rationing of essential commodities sense of the word.
Which hurts the brands name more - price hikes disproportionate with cost or having the pumps shutdown (not a question for you...just a question)?

Boozer
09-01-2005, 06:57 PM
If he owns a branded station, they may not allow him to be out of gas, to preserve the reputation of the station's brand name.
So to preserve the reputation of the company name he must bend over and take it in the ass?

HighRoller
09-01-2005, 06:57 PM
According to my rep there are about 1 million less barrels a day on the market due to the damage the hurricane has caused. Additionally refining capacity is down about 50 % so I think supply and demand is definitely in play here. I have already been notified that my allocation has been reduced and the fine is $1.00 a gallon for every gallon we buy over our allocation. The last time we had allocation issues was when I was a kid in the 70's and my dad had stations. This led to the gas crunch. We will see what happens.
And this is according to your "rep"... who works for??? Wouldn't be an oil company, would it? Gee, he wouldn't have the oil company's best interest in mind, would he? I'd believe a used car salesman more than any mouthpiece from an oil company.

HighRoller
09-01-2005, 07:11 PM
Sorry, but I don't believe anything that comes out of the mouths of the oil companies. For years they have told us the price increases were because of higher costs. Really? Is that why your profits shot up by an amount directly proportional to the price increase? I don't mind anyone making a buck, but I do mind when greedy people try to blow smoke up our asses.
Are we forgetting that the demand for gas in those states is considerably lower? There is going to be little or no traffic and almost no trucking activity in the affected areas. Not to mention no gas stations to pump it. I'm sure this adds up to a million barrels a day or more worth of reduced demand. Nevertheless, the oil companies raise prices, telling us it's to "control demand". Bullshit. It's to make money. Don't piss on our heads and tell us it's raining.

Boozer
09-01-2005, 07:16 PM
Sorry, but I don't believe anything that comes out of the mouths of the oil companies. For years they have told us the price increases were because of higher costs. Really? Is that why your profits shot up by an amount directly proportional to the price increase? I don't mind anyone making a buck, but I do mind when greedy people try to blow smoke up our asses.
Are we forgetting that the demand for gas in those states is considerably lower? There is going to be little or no traffic and almost no trucking activity in the affected areas. Not to mention no gas stations to pump it. I'm sure this adds up to a million barrels a day or more worth of reduced demand. Nevertheless, the oil companies raise prices, telling us it's to "control demand". Bullshit. It's to make money. Don't piss on our heads and tell us it's raining.
But it's for profit and that's what capitalism is all about. Right?

ROZ
09-01-2005, 07:42 PM
Unless you are in the business you don't have a clue if wholesale prices have changed. I have received two Wholesale price increases just today and it's not over yet. Lets also take into account that I have a 42,000 gallon capacity at one of my stations and a load of gas is only 8800 gallons. It takes several loads over several days to just keep up with demand. We change prices based on what load we are down to in the tank. Just because you don't see a truck show up but you see a price change does not neccessarily mean the station is raising it's profit margins, but if they are there is nothing wrong with it.When you have people investing their hard earned money and time in a business they are going to try and make some money. I am sure you don't work for free.
I don't think making 4-6 cents a gallon of profit is by any means unfair. Gas sales are not where we make our money, it's the store sales, car wash etc... As fas as oil company profits are concerned you are right, but very few stations are company owned. I would say by some stock in an oil company.
Chris,
Have you noticed any increase or decrease in gallons of gas purchased over the last year or so, or has it remained the same?
Which oil company do you think is the best to invest in?

ECeptor
09-01-2005, 07:44 PM
But it's for profit and that's what capitalism is all about. Right?
This is dangerously close to revealing the problem. Back in the day we had a true capitalist economy. Trouble was monopolies, trust, price fixing all were legal and rampantly practiced. There also were no government controls on critical activities like the stock exchange. This lead to abuse of power – the monopolies could charge whatever they wanted and were politically and financially powerful enough to eliminate any competition that might try to start up. That unhealthy economic environment plus the lack of control lead to the Great Depression. It wasn’t until our pure capitalist economy was regulated did we become healthy.

ECeptor
09-01-2005, 07:48 PM
When you have people investing their hard earned money and time in a business they are going to try and make some money. I am sure you don't work for free.
I don't think making 4-6 cents a gallon of profit is by any means unfair. Gas sales are not where we make our money, it's the store sales, car wash etc... As fas as oil company profits are concerned you are right, but very few stations are company owned. I would say by some stock in an oil company.
So who in Atlanta is profiting off the +$5/gal gas?
Who in Wichita, KS is profiting off the +$3/gal gas?
BTW - nice to have an insider here...I do appreciate your candor!

ECeptor
09-01-2005, 07:57 PM
Competition is one of the basic tenets of capitalism. Monopolies usually exists due to government and the only way to control them is through government.
Right you are Ken (been watching too much MXC recently).
Your last sentence in kinda ironic, no?

ECeptor
09-01-2005, 08:09 PM
It is kind of ironic that the entity that creates the monster is the only thing capable of controlling it.
Well, we got a new monster in town. I wonder how the history books will view this one!

ECeptor
09-01-2005, 08:14 PM
In the grand scheme of things, this will probably be a blip on the radar of history. You know how the media exaggerates everything. Gas is supposed to be $4 a gallon. Wasn't this hurricane supposed to kill tens of thousands of people? I kind of like it back in the old days when we weren't inundated with "news." Is half of this crap really news anymore?
I hope you are right. I'll just pretend you are for now so I can go to bed and actually sleep. :D

haulina29
09-01-2005, 08:15 PM
Shockwave Bob They spend to much time trying to make headline news and not enough on reporting real news . Newscasters are actors its like watching a soap .

Boozer
09-01-2005, 08:20 PM
In the grand scheme of things, this will probably be a blip on the radar of history. You know how the media exaggerates everything. Gas is supposed to be $4 a gallon. Wasn't this hurricane supposed to kill tens of thousands of people? I kind of like it back in the old days when we weren't inundated with "news." Is half of this crap really news anymore?
Thank's to the news media we take the thought of losing 10's of thousands of people lightly... Sheesh... A couple cousins, uncles.. Well other then the fact that I am going to get reduced chances of scoring at the next family reunion in Alabama I'm alright and who gives a f uck about 1000's or 10's of thousands dead? :hammer2:
So if this all media HYPE what's it going to take for something to be REAL?

haulina29
09-01-2005, 08:25 PM
The news media couldnt wait for the roof to blow off the dome the point is the news media predicted much more than what happened and had egg on there face . They would of had awsome stories but they opened there mouth a day early .

HighRoller
09-01-2005, 08:46 PM
The population of New Orleans, LA is roughly 500,000, roughly the size of Long Beach. The entire population of the state of Louisiana is 4.5M. Do you really think they account for 1/20th of our daily oil consumption?
What about MS? AL? Southern FL? And like I said, all the trucks who would have bought fuel in those areas are not there. Not to mention all the Hot Boats not on the water :D

Midlife Advantage
09-01-2005, 09:29 PM
Hey Vada....gas in Saskatoon right now is................................................ ...... FOR ALL YOU FREINDS SOUTH OF THE BORDER..............................
$5.0848 per imperial gallon.
SO QUIT BITCHING ABOUT $$4
My God I love your avatar! if thats your wife, is she single?

Havasu Cig
09-02-2005, 08:52 AM
Chris,
Have you noticed any increase or decrease in gallons of gas purchased over the last year or so, or has it remained the same?
Which oil company do you think is the best to invest in?
As prices go up pur sales go up because people panic and fill up their vehicles. We had a record day yesterday at two of our stations. 1 million less barrels a day and increased demand, take it for what it is worth.
ConocoPhillips, Exxon / Mobile, any of the major players would probably be a good place to invest.

Havasu Cig
09-02-2005, 09:02 AM
So who in Atlanta is profiting off the +$5/gal gas?
Who in Wichita, KS is profiting off the +$3/gal gas?
BTW - nice to have an insider here...I do appreciate your candor!
Depends on what their wholesale cost is. If there are problems with supply in the area their Wholesale cost could be very high. Some stations will take advantage of the situation and try and cash in. I don't do business like that, but with the majority of the stations being owned by a certain ethnic minority (not being racist just telling it like it is) you get people with different value systems, and many will take advantage of a bad situation. I have loyal customers that I value and I don't want to lose when everything returns to normal.

Dave C
09-02-2005, 09:05 AM
actually I heard this yesterday:
total daily aggregate US demand of refined product $22 million
total daily aggregate supply ONSHORE $16 million
I think we are a tad bit short onshore!
So your right, any disruption will have a major impact!
We have f-cked ourselves and we have no one to blame but ourselves!!!!!!
We currently produce as much as we use. Any dissruption in the supply will cause a shortage. Then supply and demand take over. Want to do something right now? Stop driving. No boating. Stop all energy consumption. Prices will dive. Problem is, we'll bitch, but see you on the lake this weekend!!
:hammer2:

ROZ
09-02-2005, 09:38 AM
As prices go up pur sales go up because people panic and fill up their vehicles. We had a record day yesterday at two of our stations. 1 million less barrels a day and increased demand, take it for what it is worth.
ConocoPhillips, Exxon / Mobile, any of the major players would probably be a good place to invest.
I saw your place was a little busy yesterday, but WOW :D
I wish you guys great suscess :)

Big Warlock
09-02-2005, 09:11 PM
You are aware that over 50% of the shipping from the midwest goes down the mississippi through New Orleans to the ocean right? And that New Orleans is the 5th largest port in the country? And that 70 % of the support bases for the offshore industry was in the path of the hurricane? And that those that worked at the port, harbor pilots, offshore workers, support bases, etc. etc. no longer have homes in the area? They have been moved or evacuated. So no one is there to start the oil production back up? And that the area is a major crossroads for pipelines to transport refined fuels and goods as well?
I know it seems unreasonable to you that there is a major impact, although a mere 500, 000 in New Orleans and most likely an additional 1,000,000 people in the path of the hurricane have been taken out of commision. Power is lost (pumping stations, homes, hotels, etc. etc.) Trust me, this is going to affect us. We are fortunate it did not hit Houston and south, then there would be severe oil shortages.
However, we in Az and Ca. should be ok. Our infrastructure is still good to the gulf coast and tankers can deliver crude to Ca.
If you want to do something, as everyone asks, stay home. Don't drive unless you have to. If everyone did that, prices would drop quickly. Most of us are going to pay the price and go to the lake and bitch.
It's still supply and demand. If you own a home in Ca. and it's worth 300 in August and 500 in September, you going to stick with 300 because you don't want to "gouge"? No, you are going to sell it to the person who wants to pay the most for it. Face it, they can raise the price of gas and people will pay for it. Until there is more gas available than people are demanding, prices will continue to rise. It's a no brainer. You would do it too.

CA Stu
09-02-2005, 10:16 PM
You are aware that over 50% of the shipping from the midwest goes down the mississippi through New Orleans to the ocean right? And that New Orleans is the 5th largest port in the country? And that 70 % of the support bases for the offshore industry was in the path of the hurricane? And that those that worked at the port, harbor pilots, offshore workers, support bases, etc. etc. no longer have homes in the area? They have been moved or evacuated. So no one is there to start the oil production back up? And that the area is a major crossroads for pipelines to transport refined fuels and goods as well?
I know it seems unreasonable to you that there is a major impact, although a mere 500, 000 in New Orleans and most likely an additional 1,000,000 people in the path of the hurricane have been taken out of commision. Power is lost (pumping stations, homes, hotels, etc. etc.) Trust me, this is going to affect us. We are fortunate it did not hit Houston and south, then there would be severe oil shortages.
However, we in Az and Ca. should be ok. Our infrastructure is still good to the gulf coast and tankers can deliver crude to Ca.
If you want to do something, as everyone asks, stay home. Don't drive unless you have to. If everyone did that, prices would drop quickly. Most of us are going to pay the price and go to the lake and bitch.
It's still supply and demand. If you own a home in Ca. and it's worth 300 in August and 500 in September, you going to stick with 300 because you don't want to "gouge"? No, you are going to sell it to the person who wants to pay the most for it. Face it, they can raise the price of gas and people will pay for it. Until there is more gas available than people are demanding, prices will continue to rise. It's a no brainer. You would do it too.
This is an educated and erudite post, and your analogy is spot on.
Are you sure you clicked on the right site? :D
You hit the nail on the head with the housing price analogy.
It's Economics 101, supply and demand.
I'm driving 55-60 everywhere, and no more drive-throughs for me.
I'll park and walk in and save a teaspoon or two of gas, and squeeze an extra 3 mpg on the freeway.
If you're looking for me, I'll be in the slow lane with THE REAL AMERICANS!!!!
Cheers
CA Stu

Big Warlock
09-03-2005, 05:09 AM
It was just something I read in the post that you said (I think) regarding the press and how they are blowing this one out of proportion. You also mentioned that New Orleans couldn't be responsible for some percentage of the nation's fuel etc. etc. I was trying to illustrate for you the reason why.
I agree with you and those that said it the press blows things out of proportion. I think they don't have this one right at all. The immediate devastation is impressive. The impact on the economy is going to be felt all over.
I didn't mean to bring it to the top. I hadn't been on HB for a bit and you know I love these political threads. So you should have seen that I was going to jump on it. And often times I am on the opposite side of the opinion poll from you. No big deal. I would still tie up with you on the lake because I do know your a good guy! I just like to get the "evil" side's view out there as well.
Have a great weekend! SK too! He's on the same tag team right? LOL
:boxingguy
Rob