Too small speaker wire?

[Outnumbered]

What are the negative effects of running small gauge speaker wire? No one is responding to my JL thread so I thought I would try this.
JL does not have a speaker wire spec in their manual like they do for power wire so I am not sure.
Anyone.....?

[Jyruiz]

Depends on how long the runs will be, I think 14 will be enough for any run in the boat, just don't go 16 or higher.

[phebus]

The negative effect of small gauge speaker wire is added resistance, which robs power.

[rivercrazy]

The amount of power lost in speaker wire in 12V stereo is pretty immaterial. Its on the power supply side that its more critical.
Just go with 14-16 gauge speaker wire for components and your fine

[HTRDLNCN]

smaller wire = higher resistance = less power to the speaker
longer wire = higher resistance = less power to the speaker..
but this reallyonly applies to very long cable runs or very small wire.
In a boat the lengths really arent long enough to make a difference.
Like was posted above with 14ga you would be fine.
lets say in a 20ft run of 14ga you would experience .05ohms of resistance.
If you amplifier makes 1000watts at 4ohms it means approx 12.5 watts would
be wasted by the wire.. Considering that you would need +/- 333 watts to make a single decibel of sound pressure difference a wasted 12 watts is insignificant. Most people that buy monster cable are basically throwing their money away. More important is to make sure the connections are well made and tight. Thats where usually you encounter the highest resistance.
Resitance per foot:
Wire Gage
Per Foot (68°F)
AWG Ohms
18 .00692
16 .00435
14 .00273
12 .00171
10 .00108

[Outnumbered]

Thanks for the replies. I used the stock/factory wiring in my boat for the 6 MB Quart 6.5's that are running about 75W peak each. I think it is 18 or 22 guage wire. It was basically the stuff that comes with Sony marine speakers that you would buy at West Marine or Crutchfield etc. It was all wired in nice in the factory looms so I just used it and called it good. The stereo sounds loud and clear and I am very happy. I was just concerned that the small wire may cause the amp to run hot.
Here is the amp thread with the amp details:
http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114130
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[h2oski2fast]

smaller wire = higher resistance = less power to the speaker
longer wire = higher resistance = less power to the speaker..
but this reallyonly applies to very long cable runs or very small wire.
In a boat the lengths really arent long enough to make a difference.
Like was posted above with 14ga you would be fine.
lets say in a 20ft run of 14ga you would experience .05ohms of resistance.
If you amplifier makes 1000watts at 4ohms it means approx 12.5 watts would
be wasted by the wire.. Considering that you would need +/- 333 watts to make a single decibel of sound pressure difference a wasted 12 watts is insignificant. Most people that buy monster cable are basically throwing their money away. More important is to make sure the connections are well made and tight. Thats where usually you encounter the highest resistance.
Resitance per foot:
Wire Gage
Per Foot (68°F)
AWG Ohms
18 .00692
16 .00435
14 .00273
12 .00171
10 .00108
I agree with that, but where did you come up with the other verbage? And at voltage and amperage would those ratings be aquired?

[Mandelon]

Ya ever look at the back of the speaker itself? I am amazed at the thin leads that run from the connector to the speaker itself....very thin....

[HTRDLNCN]

I agree with that, but where did you come up with the other verbage? And at voltage and amperage would those ratings be aquired?
resistance is resistance regardless of voltage or amperage (though if the wire was way too small it would heat up which would alter its resistance) ...
as for spl every 3db change in spl requires 2x the power ..
3db is also the smallest noticeable change audible to the average person people. While some "claim" to hear changes as small as 1db few can actually prove this. A doubling in apparent soundlevel requires 10db of spl which in turn requires ten times the power (10db spl = 10xpower ).Thus doubling how loud a 1000w system is without changing or adding speakers would require a 10,000w system.
In the example I used a common number of 1000w at a resistance of 4ohms
which is common in auto speakers. I then used the length of cable times its resistance to figure the resistanceof the cable as opposed to the resistance of the speaker and then found how much power could theoretically be used by each due to its resistance to the flow of power from the amplifier.. Thats how I got the number of 12watts being wasted by the wire if it was used on a 1000w amp that was actually putting out its full 1000w. At lower levels it would waste proportionately less power.
Is this what you were asking?

[h2oski2fast]

resistance is resistance regardless of voltage or amperage (though if the wire was way too small it would heat up which would alter its resistance) ...
as for spl every 3db change in spl requires 2x the power ..
3db is also the smallest noticeable change audible to the average person people. While some "claim" to hear changes as small as 1db few can actually prove this. A doubling in apparent soundlevel requires 10db of spl which in turn requires ten times the power (10db spl = 10xpower ).Thus doubling how loud a 1000w system is without changing or adding speakers would require a 10,000w system.
In the example I used a common number of 1000w at a resistance of 4ohms
which is common in auto speakers. I then used the length of cable times its resistance to figure the resistanceof the cable as opposed to the resistance of the speaker and then found how much power could theoretically be used by each due to its resistance to the flow of power from the amplifier.. Thats how I got the number of 12watts being wasted by the wire if it was used on a 1000w amp that was actually putting out its full 1000w. At lower levels it would waste proportionately less power.
Is this what you were asking?
I guess there is no such thing as Ohm's Law? Maybe you should read this:
Ohm's Law (http://www.the12volt.com/ohm/ohmslaw.asp)

[HTRDLNCN]

I guess there is no such thing as Ohm's Law? Maybe you should read this:
Ohm's Law (http://www.the12volt.com/ohm/ohmslaw.asp)
Yes there is ohms law..
Ive read it once or twice..
I have a degree in engineering and
taught Sound Engineering at MDCC for 17 years.
(not that it really matters to anyone,just so you know Im not just shooting in the dark)
Ohms law does not really come into play here..
We already know the resistance,the power and the voltage.
I used a 1000w amplifier in a 4ohm load .. (as an example )
As for the resistance of the different wire sizes I took that from a textbook.
(Live Sound Fundamentals from the Yamaha Corporation,section 15, page 288)
What exactly would you use ohms law for in this case ?
Resistance of the wire per foot is a given and the variable is the length.
Voltage and Amperage will not change the resistance of a length of wire,of that I can assure you if nothing else. ..( Unless of course if you heated it )
.

[Havasu Hangin']

Since speaker output is AC...size doesn't matter as much as DC on the power/ground.

[ROZ]

As for the resistance of the different wire sizes I took that from a textbook.
(Live Sound Fundamentals from the Yamaha Corporation,section 15, page 288)
I think you may be off +/- a hundred thousandth or so depending onthe makeup of the wire.. meaning percentage of copper, silver, etc. :D

[HTRDLNCN]

I think you may be off +/- a hundred thousandth or so depending onthe makeup of the wire.. meaning percentage of copper, silver, etc. :D
I will let them know for their next text revision.
:) :)

[ROZ]

I will let them know for their next text revision.
:) :)
I already emailed my boy over there... He'll make the revision :D
Are ou still with Yamaha?

[HTRDLNCN]

No,that just happened to be the textbook I used in my classes.
Its actually an excellent reference manual for almost any audio related situation not just live and installed sound..
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0881889008/ref=pd_bxgy_img_b/002-8676784-0962438?%5Fencoding=UTF8
Sorry to have hijacked the thread.
Should have just said the wire was fine..
:p

[Outnumbered]

No,that just happened to be the textbook I used in my classes.
Its actually an excellent reference manual for almost any audio related situation not just live and installed sound..
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0881889008/ref=pd_bxgy_img_b/002-8676784-0962438?%5Fencoding=UTF8
Sorry to have hijacked the thread.
Should have just said the wire was fine..
:p
No, I appreciate the info. It makes sense. Thanks for chiming in.