Alcohol?

[sanger rat]

What does it take to run it? I know the you have to jet up the carb. Is there more you have to do to the carb? What about the fuel pump and lines. How much bigger do they have to be? Is it true that two gallons of alcohol = one gallon of gas? So that would mean bigger tanks. It is lighter than gas right? Can you run it in a low compression motor say with 9.1 to 10.1cr? Where would you be able to buy it? Do you have to buy it by the drum? What I want to know is can the average 500-600hp motors run on it.

[Fiat48]

Carbs have to be reworked extensively to flow roughly twice as much as gas. Or go injectors. More fuel supply needed than gas. It'll run on near any compression but likes more. You'll burn about 2.2 times more alcohol than gasoline.

[Taylorman]

So a 500 hp 10:1 motor running on gas, if switched to alcohol, what kind of gains can be expected?

[steelcomp]

So a 500 hp 10:1 motor running on gas, if switched to alcohol, what kind of gains can be expected?
I'm not sure about the gains, but remember this...alky is really corrosive. You should drain all your lines and dry everything out efter every trip. You have to be careful with spills, and if you EVER have a fire, you won't know it untill it's too late. No visible flame. If you start seeing flames, it's because someting else has cought fire, like your ass! You'll also have to worry about regular oil changes.
Just a thought.

[Sleek-Jet]

What affect does Alky have on gel coat???
I know alky is very caustic to bare aluminium, but what about stainless???

[EXTREMEBOATS]

:D FYI up to 30% power gains are possable if its set up right. :squiggle:

[Norseman]

:D FYI up to 30% power gains are possable if its set up right. :squiggle:
Mike;
Define set up right, Please........
I've always heard that the decrease in fuel mileage on a street driven car is somewhere between 20% - 30%, that was "Way back when", 60's and 70's. Mother Earth news and various other sources......
I've also been told that with EFI the decrease would be less.
Lots of newer cars are also set up to run E85.
I know that to run pure alcohol carbs need to be rejetted up about 40% and that timing needs to be advanced.
Is using twice as much alcohol due to increasing the compression of the motor???
Bob

[Fiat48]

Mike;
Define set up right, Please........
I've always heard that the decrease in fuel mileage on a street driven car is somewhere between 20% - 30%, that was "Way back when", 60's and 70's. Mother Earth news and various other sources......
I've also been told that with EFI the decrease would be less.
Lots of newer cars are also set up to run E85.
I know that to run pure alcohol carbs need to be rejetted up about 40% and that timing needs to be advanced.
Is using twice as much alcohol due to increasing the compression of the motor???
Bob
E is ethanol. Different animal. Grain alcohol. Methanol is different.
Difference in fuel consumption has nothing to due with compression. It has to do with air/fuel mixture to get a combustable mixture.

[steelcomp]

E is ethanol. Different animal. Grain alcohol. Methanol is different.
Difference in fuel consumption has nothing to due with compression. It has to do with air/fuel mixture to get a combustable mixture.
It's about BTU's released.

[Unchained]

:D FYI up to 30% power gains are possable if its set up right. :squiggle:
Just changing fuels and carbs / rejetting it's more like + 4% at best.
Any gains from alcohol have to be gotten by adding some significant cylinder pressure beyond what gasoline can run at.

[Norseman]

E is ethanol. Different animal. Grain alcohol. Methanol is different.
Difference in fuel consumption has nothing to due with compression. It has to do with air/fuel mixture to get a combustable mixture.
Which is better as a gasoline substitute????
Looks like Indy is going Ethanol (http://www.indycar.com/news/story.php?story_id=4102)...

[steelcomp]

Ineedav
Thanks for your PM.
Your comment about there being additives that guys put in alcohol to help eliminate the need to drain the system is correct, and that's why I said there would be those who disagree. Not all agree, though, that the additives are sufficient, and completely eliminate the need to drain the system. It may extend the period between "cleanings", but from what I have learned (and I'm going to try and run alky next year, so I've been trying to get as much info as I can) it seems that ultimately, there's no getting around the fact that runing alcohol requires a lot of fuel system maintenance, and IMO it's a valid consideration if trying to decide to run it or not. There may be those who have great success with additives, and I'd like to hear more aobut that as well, but so far, it seems to be the exception, not the norm. Maybe more than one alky "expert" can give their input.

[BUSBY]

Ineedav
Thanks for your PM.
Your comment about there being additives that guys put in alcohol to help eliminate the need to drain the system is correct, and that's why I said there would be those who disagree. Not all agree, though, that the additives are sufficient, and completely eliminate the need to drain the system. It may extend the period between "cleanings", but from what I have learned (and I'm going to try and run alky next year, so I've been trying to get as much info as I can) it seems that ultimately, there's no getting around the fact that runing alcohol requires a lot of fuel system maintenance, and IMO it's a valid consideration if trying to decide to run it or not. There may be those who have great success with additives, and I'd like to hear more aobut that as well, but so far, it seems to be the exception, not the norm. Maybe more than one alky "expert" can give their input.
Well ... I'm no expert ... but have been running alcohol for years (15+) and I drain all of my lines and tank everytime I leave the track. I also WD40 my barrel valve, shutoff and lines ... others don't agree with that either, but I never have any problems this way ...
Just my experiences, as I was taught ...

[ttmott]

Methyl alcohol or better know as Methanol makes it's power at high compressions or forced inducted motors and on the very rich side. The flame front is very slow, hence an octane rating of around 120+ so a rich mixture continues to build cylinder pressure as the piston moves downward. Methanol must be run on the rich side to prevent pre-ignition (not to be confused with detonation) consequently your eyes will be watering when idling around. In contrast to gas mixtures of 14:1 to 15:1 methanol is 7:1 to 9:1. Note also that the stochiometeric range is significantly greater than gas allowing the richer burn and more cushion to piston melt. The necessary rich condition contaminates the oil and oil needs to be changed much more regular. Proper engine ubrication is critical because the alcohol tends to wash the oil from the cylinder walls. Many mix with castor based lubricants to make a little more engine friendly. Camshaft configuration must be optimized for this fuel to take advantage of the increasing cylinder pressures after ignition. The engine will operate about 20 to 30 degrees cooler making this fuel a problem with many boats that operate too cold anyway.
Maintenance of the engine and fuel system is a pain due to the properties mentioned in this thread additionally methanol is extreamly hydroscopic (it absorbes water); you will need to drain your fuel tanks and fuel system since the tanks are vented and will suck water like a sponge. Always check your storage drum contents for specific gravity before dispensing to ensure the drum is tight and water has not intruded.
See Ray Hall Turbofast web page http://www.turbofast.com.au/racefuel.html for all of the fuel info you could ever want - and more.
Tom

[INEEDAV]

Methyl alcohol or better know as Methanol makes it's power at high compressions or forced inducted motors and on the very rich side. The flame front is very slow, hence an octane rating of around 120+ so a rich mixture continues to build cylinder pressure as the piston moves downward. Methanol must be run on the rich side to prevent pre-ignition (not to be confused with detonation) consequently your eyes will be watering when idling around. In contrast to gas mixtures of 14:1 to 15:1 methanol is 7:1 to 9:1. Note also that the stochiometeric range is significantly greater than gas allowing the richer burn and more cushion to piston melt. The necessary rich condition contaminates the oil and oil needs to be changed much more regular. Proper engine ubrication is critical because the alcohol tends to wash the oil from the cylinder walls. Many mix with castor based lubricants to make a little more engine friendly. Camshaft configuration must be optimized for this fuel to take advantage of the increasing cylinder pressures after ignition. The engine will operate about 20 to 30 degrees cooler making this fuel a problem with many boats that operate too cold anyway.
Maintenance of the engine and fuel system is a pain due to the properties mentioned in this thread additionally methanol is extreamly hydroscopic (it absorbes water); you will need to drain your fuel tanks and fuel system since the tanks are vented and will suck water like a sponge. Always check your storage drum contents for specific gravity before dispensing to ensure the drum is tight and water has not intruded.
See Ray Hall Turbofast web page http://www.turbofast.com.au/racefuel.html for all of the fuel info you could ever want - and more.
Tom
Very informative post Tom.

[sleek willy]

I've considered switching to alcohol, Thanks for the info.
-Sleek Willy