Save $$ on Diesel fuel

[Danhercules]

I heard on XM radio, the Open Road staton, that Pres Bush is allowing the use of Red Dye fuel in all Deisel trucks on a temp baises. I just heard this real quick, no real details, any one else hear?

[djunkie]

NO WAY!!!!!! If you here any more info on this please let us know. I have access to that.

[Boozer]

Doesn't that fuel also void the manufacturers waranty?

[djunkie]

Doesn't that fuel also void the manufacturers waranty?
Never heard that. It is the same as regular diesel #2. It's just dyed red for tax exeptions since it's used in off- highway vehicles.

[NashvilleBound]

I didnt hear that but the fine for getting caught is $1000.00 per gallon for the total capacity of that vehicle. It takes several fillups to clear the color from your tank too. Post it again if you hear it....we have access to red all over out here.....

[djunkie]

I didnt hear that but the fine for getting caught is $1000.00 per gallon for the total capacity of that vehicle. It takes several fillups to clear the color from your tank too. Post it again if you hear it....we have access to red all over out here.....
Ouch that would be pretty costly. Chances of a pickup truck being checked is slim, but still not worth the chance to me.

[Danhercules]

I suck at searching, But I am trying to find out more info. Please help search. I can get red dye here too.

[Boozer]

Never heard that. It is the same as regular diesel #2. It's just dyed red for tax exeptions since it's used in off- highway vehicles.
Interesting. An aquaintance of mine runs it full time in his truck. The local dealer told him that the stuff actually dyes all of the internal components in the engine red and in the event that he has a major break down the warranty will be void if the parts are red.

[djunkie]

Interesting. An aquaintance of mine runs it full time in his truck. The local dealer told him that the stuff actually dyes all of the internal components in the engine red and in the event that he has a major break down the warranty will be void if the parts are red.
That sounds kinda bogus. If it damages internal parts then they wouldn't even use it in any diesel engine. Sounds like someone is blowing smoke up his ass. Anyway I'm sure just the use of it would be reason enough for the dealer to void the warranty since it is illegal.

[Danhercules]

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Internal Revenue Service acted Friday to expand the nationwide supply of diesel fuel by letting more vehicles use fuel intended for farm equipment and government vehicles. The action allows commercial trucks and other vehicles to use special dyed diesel without paying a penalty excise tax. The dyed diesel fuel is used by farm, government and some off-road equipment, ordinarily not subject to federal excise taxes.

[djunkie]

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Internal Revenue Service acted Friday to expand the nationwide supply of diesel fuel by letting more vehicles use fuel intended for farm equipment and government vehicles. The action allows commercial trucks and other vehicles to use special dyed diesel without paying a penalty excise tax. The dyed diesel fuel is used by farm, government and some off-road equipment, ordinarily not subject to federal excise taxes.
Looks like its for Commercial trucks only.
Bastards!!!! Oh well thats good for the truckers.

[Danhercules]

Interesting. An aquaintance of mine runs it full time in his truck. The local dealer told him that the stuff actually dyes all of the internal components in the engine red and in the event that he has a major break down the warranty will be void if the parts are red.
Yea, it dyes the fuel filter red, they can tell then. It dose not hurt the truck in any way. Its hard to get the red out. You need a few fill ups, then change the fiter, your back to normal.

[NashvilleBound]

Its regular fuel with color added....thats it. Will not hurt or help. I used to run it in my previous life full time before it became an item. This is when diesel was under 1.00 and red was like .70 This was only 5 or 6 years ago. Today I had to drive 20 miles to find a station that had diesel. I passed no less than 20 stations...all out.

[Danhercules]

Bastards!!!! Oh well thats good for the truckers.
Mybe not, read it again, I edited my post, I read it diffrent now.

[djunkie]

Mybe not, read it again, I edited my post, I read it diffrent now.
Well hopefully this is true. I can drive right down to the fuel dock and pump it out of their tanks.

[Man-de-lone]

I found this:
High sulfur diesel must be dyed red at the refinery (EPA regulation). According to IRS regulations this fuel must contain Dye Solvent 164 at a concentration spectrally equivalent to 3.9 pounds per thousand barrels (PTB) (11.13 mg/liter) of solid dye Standard Solvent Red 26. Low sulfur diesel, both EPA and CARB, are generally on road diesels and consequently undyed. However, if they are sold as non-taxable diesel or heating fuel they must be dyed to the above concentration.
And this
Treasury, IRS take steps to make additional diesel fuel available (off-road diesel now street-legal)
New Orleans Times-Picayune ^ | September 2, 2005
Posted on 09/02/2005 11:49:15 AM PDT by Dont Mention the War
Treasury, IRS take steps to make additional diesel fuel available
Friday, 11:55 a.m.
WASHINGTON, DC - The Treasury Department and IRS today announced that "dyed diesel fuel" would be permitted for road use.
Dyed diesel fuel ordinarily is intended for off-road use in farm equipment or in certain government vehicles such as school buses. It is dyed to distinguish it from diesel fuel intended for road use.
"Today's action is a relatively simple and straightforward step that will immediately increase the available supply of diesel fuel nationwide, which is especially needed in Gulf Coast relief efforts," Secretary of the Treasury John Snow stated."
The announcement today will make available additional supplies of diesel fuel that will help alleviate shortages. The relief will remain in effect through September 15, 2005.
(Excerpt) Read more at nola.com ...
Two weeks???? Oh yeah, it will all be fixed by then... :hammerhea

[Danhercules]

The rest of the artical.
A refinery along the Mississippi River is shown in this aerial view, Friday, Sept. 2, 2005, between Baton Rouge and New Orleans.
AP Photo/DAVID J. PHILLIP
IRS lifts taxes on some diesel fuel
The Associated Press
Published 11:30 am PDT Friday, September 2, 2005
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WASHINGTON (AP) - The Internal Revenue Service acted Friday to expand the nationwide supply of diesel fuel by letting more vehicles use fuel intended for farm equipment and government vehicles.
The action allows commercial trucks and other vehicles to use special dyed diesel without paying a penalty excise tax. The dyed diesel fuel is used by farm, government and some off-road equipment, ordinarily not subject to federal excise taxes.
"Today's action is a relatively simple and straightforward step that will immediately increase the available supply of diesel fuel nationwide, which is especially needed in Gulf Coast relief efforts," said Treasury Secretary John Snow.
Treasury Department officials said the possibility of reducing the federal tax on gasoline is not under active consideration in the administration. They said it would require legislation to reduce the tax.
Gasoline in some parts of the country has risen above $3 a gallon, triggering thousands of consumer complaints of price gouging.
Treasury Department officials said it was possible that some members of Congress might push for a cut in the federal gasoline tax to help ease the pain of higher prices, but they would not say which lawmakers might be considering the idea.
State officials started to consider whether to suspend gas taxes in their states. Georgia Gov. Sonny Perdue said he will sign an executive order Friday to suspend state motor fuel taxes through the end of September to "relieve some of the financial burden" on consumers in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.
The order will remove the 7.5-cents-a-gallon tax and a 4 percent sales tax on gas, the governor said, and was set to begin at midnight.
Leaders in several other states, including Massachusetts, Connecticut and Pennsylvania, have either proposed or said they are considering gas tax suspensions in their states.
Federal officials are starting to think about whether they need legislation keep the economy moving as it recovers from the hurricane and surging gas prices.
"We also need to be looking at the long-term economic impact not just to the states affected, but to the economy of the entire region. And I suspect that means some kind of stimulus package out there to be sure that we see the economy move forward as it needs to rather than it might in response to this disaster," said House Majority Whip Roy Blunt, R-Mo.

[Man-de-lone]

More:
IRS Waives Diesel Fuel Penalty Due to Hurricane Katrina
IR-2005-89, Sept. 2, 2005
WASHINGTON — The Internal Revenue Service, in response to shortages of clear diesel fuel caused by Hurricane Katrina, will not impose a tax penalty when dyed diesel fuel is sold for use or used on the highway.
This relief applies beginning August 25, 2005, in Florida, August 30, 2005, in Alabama, Louisiana, and Mississippi, and August 31, 2005, in the rest of the United States, and will remain in effect through September 15, 2005.
This penalty relief is available to any person that sells or uses dyed fuel for highway use. In the case of the operator of the vehicle in which the dyed fuel is used, the relief is available only if the operator or the person selling the fuel pays the tax of 24.4 cents per gallon. The IRS will not impose penalties for failure to make semimonthly deposits of this tax. IRS Publication 510, Excise Taxes for 2005, has information on the proper method for reporting and paying the tax.
Ordinarily, dyed diesel fuel is not taxed, because it is sold for uses exempt from excise tax, such as to farmers for farming purposes and to local governments for buses.
Finally, the Internal Revenue Service will not impose the recently enacted tax penalty on a failure to meet the requirements of EPA highway diesel fuel sulfur content regulations if EPA has waived those requirements.
The EPA says this:
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EPA Grants Emergency Fuel Waiver for Katrina-Blasted States
30 August 2005
The EPA is granting an emergency waiver of clean fuel standards in Alabama, Florida, Louisiana and Mississippi because the impact of Hurricane Katrina “will prevent the distribution of an adequate supply of fuel to consumers that is compliant with the Clean Air Act.”
The EPA is temporarily allowing refiners, importers, distributors, carriers and retail outlets (regulated parties) to supply gasoline meeting a Reid Vapor Pressure (RVP) standard of 9.0 psi in areas of the affected states where a lower RVP is required.
Reid Vapor Pressure is one of the standards applied to gasoline quality, and is an indicator of the propensity of the fuel to evaporate, thereby emitting Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs) that contribute to ozone formation. RVP is measured in pounds per square inch (psi), and the lower the psi, the fewer evaporative emissions.
Federal regulations require use of lower RVP gasoline in hot summer months to reduce VOCs emissions. Delivering gasoline with the correct RVP is a task of the refinery.
Under normal circumstances at this time of year, the metropolitan and high-ozone areas of Louisiana and Florida are required to use gasoline with an RVP of 7.8. Alabama high-ozone areas (including Birmingham) are required to use gasoline with an RVP of 7.0. All other areas in those states—and the entire state of Mississippi—are to use gasoline with an RVP of 9.0.
Further, because of the expected shortage of motor vehicle diesel fuel meeting the 500 parts per million (ppm) sulfur standard, EPA will temporarily allow regulated parties to supply motor vehicle diesel fuel to affected states having a sulfur content greater than 500 ppm.
The waiver is effective immediately and will continue through the remainder of the high-ozone period, through Sept. 15, 2005. However, retail outlets or wholesale purchaser-consumers that receive motor vehicle diesel fuel having a sulfur content greater than 500 ppm, under the terms of this waiver may continue selling or dispensing this fuel after Sept. 15, 2005, until supplies are depleted.

[Norseman]

Ouch that would be pretty costly. Chances of a pickup truck being checked is slim, but still not worth the chance to me.
They check pick ups all the time out this way!!!
And yes they write big tickets or impound the truck.......

[djunkie]

They check pick ups all the time out this way!!!
And yes they write big tickets or impound the truck.......
Never even heard of it happening out here. I've seen them check big commercial haulers though.

[ECeptor]

I didnt hear that but the fine for getting caught is $1000.00 per gallon for the total capacity of that vehicle. It takes several fillups to clear the color from your tank too. Post it again if you hear it....we have access to red all over out here.....
I was told it would take many, many, many tanks to get it all flushed through. It's detectable in extremely low quantities - ppm or something crazy like that.
The IRS was cracking down on it's use by farmers and construction co.s a few years back. Any liscenced truck (pickups, dump trucks, semi's) we had came back to the shop and we pulled the tanks and flushed them out.
$1000 per gallon sounds right. I remember them hitting a farm auction and busting about 20 farmers. IRS showed up, blocked all driveways to the property, got on the auctioneers speaker and annouced they were tipping everyones tank. Huge fines followed!
Be careful with this guys if you run the risk of having your trucks inspected when this is lifted. Personally, I'd run the red if allowed but would pull and flush my entire system after.

[Jordy]

In Arizona it's a $10K fine per occurance but I've never had any of my pickups checked and I've been running diesels for over 10 years now. I did hear that they had a checkpoint in the East Valley a while back where all diesels were being stopped and checked. Then again, that's pretty much of, well before the housing boom, what used to be a rural farming area. Last time I checked I was paying about $2.65 a gallon for red fuel through my fuel company for my generators. It's better than $3.00 a gallon but not much. :(

[ECeptor]

In Arizona it's a $10K fine per occurance but I've never had any of my pickups checked and I've been running diesels for over 10 years now. I did hear that they had a checkpoint in the East Valley a while back where all diesels were being stopped and checked. Then again, that's pretty much of, well before the housing boom, what used to be a rural farming area. Last time I checked I was paying about $2.65 a gallon for red fuel through my fuel company for my generators. It's better than $3.00 a gallon but not much. :(
Not worth the risk, imho. You'd have to drive 290,000 miles (at 10mpg) to save enough to pay for 1 fine.

[Jordy]

Not worth the risk, imho. You'd have to drive 290,000 miles (at 10mpg) to save enough to pay for 1 fine.
I don't know what math you're using, but I'm not driving 290,000 miles on $10K worth of fuel at 10 mpg. $10,000 will buy about 3300 gallons of fuel and at 10 mpg it will only get you 33,000 miles. ;)

[ECeptor]

I don't know what math you're using, but I'm not driving 290,000 miles on $10K worth of fuel at 10 mpg. $10,000 will buy about 3300 gallons of fuel and at 10 mpg it will only get you 33,000 miles. ;)
might be bad math...lemme double check.
$3.00 for on-road vs $2.65 for off-road yields a $0.35 difference. $10,000/$0.35 per gal yields 28,571 gallons. Multiply that by 10mpg and you get the ~290k miles.
Double checking
- $3.00/gal times 28,571 gallons is $85,714
- $2.65/gal times 28,571 gallons is $75,714 <-- difference of $10k equal to the fine!
Make sense?

[Jordy]

Make sense?
No, it's $10,000 for a red fuel fine, gallons aside. I still want to know where you get 290,000 miles out of $10K worth of fine...

[ECeptor]

No, it's $10,000 for a red fuel fine, gallons aside. I still want to know where you get 290,000 miles out of $10K worth of fine...
Yeah, $10,000 for the fine.
So, you have a choice - 1) run red fuel at a $0.35/gal savings and risk a $10k fine, or 2) pay the $0.35 in taxes and have zero risk to the fine.
If you ran over 290k miles then got the $10k fine you'd be money ahead. If you went less than 290k miles (both at 10mpg) you'd lose money.

[Danhercules]

Dont know what your guys are yackin about, cause if this is legit, there is no fine. Thats the point!!

[Code4]

Mr Herc, its past your bedtime. Your logic is nowhere to be found this late. It will only last 2 weeks, not worth it and not enough time to clear it out of your system. :hammerhea

[bigq]

you know we wouldn't have this frickin problem if the suppliers didn't keep a just in time inventory, pisses me off!!!!!! :220v:

[ECeptor]

...just in time inventory...
Dontcha mean "just a day late" inventory?? :messedup:

[BobbyB]

Phuggit, change it over to a Grease Car (http://www.greasemachine.com/forum/) !
Or, there's always the Fatty Wagons (http://www.fattywagons.com/)
:D

[bigq]

Dontcha mean "just a day late" inventory?? :messedup:
I don't know, how much more profit can we make with that method? :rolleyes: :idea:

[UBFJ #454]

In Missouri if you own a Farm your pickups can be Licensed as a 'Farm Vehicle' ... License Plate has 'Farm Vehicle' stamped on it ... Wonder if this would allow you to get by running 'Red' in other states while traveling through them ... You'd think so, But ?????
Also we have a couple of Peterbuilt tractors in the Family that we use for Not For Hire hauling of grain & beans to bins and market that I am going to use to drag our Race Trailer to races once we move back in Spring of '07 ... Given they're 'Farm Vehicles', I don't foresee any problem with 'Red' being in their tanks.

[Norseman]

Never even heard of it happening out here. I've seen them check big commercial haulers though.
They like to set up at Farm auctions, stock auctions, farm and horse events and things like that. I had a buddy with a big flatbed checked as he dropped off a load of apples at a wholesaler last year.
I've also seen them set up at Englishtown and Atco Dragways, right down from the exit to the track.
I'd be careful trying this and it's not just the feds that fine and check it's the state DOT as well, atleast out here in the northeast.

[ECeptor]

In Missouri if you own a Farm your pickups can be Licensed as a 'Farm Vehicle' ... License Plate has 'Farm Vehicle' stamped on it ... Wonder if this would allow you to get by running 'Red' in other states while traveling through them ... You'd think so, But ?????
Also we have a couple of Peterbuilt tractors in the Family that we use for Not For Hire hauling of grain & beans to bins and market that I am going to use to drag our Race Trailer to races once we move back in Spring of '07 ... Given they're 'Farm Vehicles', I don't foresee any problem with 'Red' being in their tanks.
You better check before you run red in anything street legal - farm or not! The auction story I posted earlier in this thread took place at a rural farm auction between Weston and Tracy, Missouri (near Platt City).
I'm about 99.9% sure what you discribed will land you a huge +$10,000 fine if caught.

[ECeptor]

I'd be careful trying this and it's not just the feds that fine and check it's the state DOT as well, atleast out here in the northeast.
The farm auction checks I've heard about it was the freakin' IRS who was doing the checking!
We had a truck from work get busted when an employee took it to get their CDL. Step 1 was to make sure everything on the truck was good to go and, opps, red in the tank!

[UBFJ #454]

Thanks for the 'Heads Up'.
Question ... If you run Red on the farm Legally then go over the road using what you're supposed to there will be a mix (some Red left in the tanks) ... How can they Fine you (Unless they 'Just Want To')?

[ECeptor]

Thanks for the 'Heads Up'.
Question ... If you run Red on the farm Legally then go over the road using what you're supposed to there will be a mix (some Red left in the tanks) ... How can they Fine you (Unless they 'Just Want To')?
My understand is any farm or construction vehicle tagged as on-road can be fined whether or not it is on-road at the time of the search.
So, if it has a liscense plate I wouldn't put red in it unless I had written proof it was legal (and then I'd carry that in the glove box). If you have trucks that have run red and are at risk of being checked, you need to flush your tanks.

[HighRoller]

Yeah, $10,000 for the fine.
So, you have a choice - 1) run red fuel at a $0.35/gal savings and risk a $10k fine, or 2) pay the $0.35 in taxes and have zero risk to the fine.
If you ran over 290k miles then got the $10k fine you'd be money ahead. If you went less than 290k miles (both at 10mpg) you'd lose money.
I want to see where you bought a big truck that gets 10mpg loaded?

[Dusty Times]

This sentence certainly makes it sound like it will be legal to run the red dyed fuel IF YOU PAY THE ADDITIONAL TAX. They're just creating more supply, not allowing you to use cheaper fuel.
CORRECT!
You will still have to show the tax was paid when you submit your fuel reports. And I don't think the man will look the other way when you have red in your F-350. Besides red fuel isn't easy for the general public to access.

[Danhercules]

This sentence certainly makes it sound like it will be legal to run the red dyed fuel IF YOU PAY THE ADDITIONAL TAX. They're just creating more supply, not allowing you to use cheaper fuel.
I did not catch that. That is why I posted it. To see what was up. More eyes the better. Thanks.

[ECeptor]

I want to see where you bought a big truck that gets 10mpg loaded?
Small truck pulling trailer...not a big truck.