Calling 058

[WATERROCKET]

It's been a while ago we talked about getting a little more hp out of my stock 460. If I remember right, you sugested, dove-c heads,K&N arrester,and roller rockers. What ratio were the rockers 1.73? If I recall I think you said this should put me a little over 400hp.Thanks

[Blown 472]

Ford rockers are 1.73.

[058]

Refresh my memory, [thats the second thing ya loose when you get old, I forget what the first thing is] You have a stock 460, what hull is this in? Jet or I.O.? The D0VE-C heads will up the compresson over the D2 or D3 heads you prob. have. Before the heads are installed have the exhaust ports cleaned out of all the strange lumps and bumps and then have a good 3 angle valve job done. This is worth 15-20 hp alone. The D0VE-C heads can increase the c/r up to 1.5 points depending on the deck height of your block. Early blocks are 10.300" and late blocks are 10.320" Roller rockers will not increase your hp much but will assure a truer 1.73 ratio [most stamped rockers are not a true 1.73] and less friction meaning slightly more hp. What carb and manifold are you running now?

[WATERROCKET]

O58, It is a 245Limited cuddy weighs about 3700 dry,King cobra drive, 600 holley, CJ intake. I was told by someone that omc used only cj intakes.

[Blown 472]

Ford put them on all their marine engines.

[058]

The 600 Holley is prob. too small as 460s like flow. Depending on you maximum rpm I think you would do well to increase to at least a 750 or even a 850 CFM Holley. Another area you might want to look at is upgrading the ignition and recurving the advance if it hasn't been done already. Adjust curve to 36 deg total at app. 3000 rpm with the initial advance as much as the engine will stand and still be able to start, in other words 16 to 20 deg initial but not enought to prevent the engine from cranking when hot but NOT to exceed the total advance of 36 deg. Personally I run 20 deg initial on 2 different engines, one is a 8.4 to 1 c/r twin turbo 466" BBF and the other is a 12.5 to 1 carbed 514" BBF, both engines respond well to that initial setting. All this is assuming you run at least 92 oct. fuel.

[spectras only]

WR , the 460 OMC King Cobra 340 HP package came with the SCJ cast iron intake.The 600 holley is too small for starters.I would use min 750 and up to 850 vac secondary holley for your engine.If money is no object, you could change your heads with 429 screw in stud heads and use comp cam's 1.8 ratio S/S roller rocker arms .Or have a machine shop to alter your 460 pedestal type head to use screw in studs with guide plates.Here's a 460 I've used 429 heads on http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/ford460.1.jpg
[ April 03, 2003, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: spectras only ]

[LakesOnly]

WATERROCKET:
....I was told by someone that omc used only cj intakes.... Can one of you guys please reply with the casting number of the factory Cobra Jet intake? I might have access to several of those manifolds; want to be sure they're the right ones.
LO

[058]

Lakesonly, I don't have the casting no. handy but the typical iron CJ manifold has a spreadbore carb pad as all CJ engines had Quadrajets. The casting no. would start with a D0** as it wasn't available until 1970. Spectras only, I thought all SCJ intakes were aluminum?

[spectras only]

058 , I thought the same .Mondello had an article [I'm going to check it tonight]on the ford parker enduro spectra , and that article had mentioned about cast iron SCJ intake.If I remember right ,it was an almost stock engine fine tuned by Erickson Ford of ca .The SCJ cast iron intake has huge runners and much taller compared to the 429 manifolds I've seen ,hence the mismatch with A2A heads [according to the article it was actually beneficial :confused: ] creating some turbulence on the flow .There are two of these manifolds for sale here in the papers for 200 CDN ea.It was almost ten years ago ,when the local ford dealerships ran out of these because OMC bought them for their marinized engines and depleted the stocks.I'll call my friend who bought my 20 spectra,maybe he won't mind [he's got the boat all covered up for the winter months] to check the numbers on the manifold.

[058]

Spectras only, I may be showing my age here but I remember the Ford Muscleparts book advised using the CJ/SCJ manifold on stock heads, even with the badly mis-matched ports it was good for an extra 15hp over the stock manifold. I've learned along time ago to never question or doubt what may have come from Ford, they have produced some strange things especially when it comes to marine and industrial engines. Its just that I've never seen a SCJ [Holley carb pad] in iron. On cars they were aluminum.

[LakesOnly]

058:
I remember the Ford Muscleparts book advised using the CJ/SCJ manifold on stock heads...I've learned Ford...produced some strange things especially when it comes to marine and industrial engines. Hey 058,
Do you know if the 460's from Ford Power Products (Ford's industrial division) have any special/preferred internal components over the passenger car engines?
The engines I am looking at have D3VE heads and D1VE blocks. But what about the internals?
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/506/350460_Label-med.jpg
(Incidentally, these are the engines with the intakes that looked more high rise than my passenger car intake--might be Cobras?)
Paul

[spectras only]

058 , found the print of the article by Mondello.It's quite long so I only write some info that may interest some ford guys.Mondello quote; The 460 Marine Ford has an excellent stock cast iron intake manifold which is a 429 SCJ-4V type [this looks like a hirise compared to the standard 429 manif] .Interestingly HP books' ford V-8 by Tom Monroe doesn't mention serial #'s on the two different 429 intake manifolds.Mondello recommends using this intake with a ported 460 head.He claimed an increase of 45 HP just by porting the heads 3/4 inch long, funneled to match the intake and removing the EGR bump .He started with a stock 460 tuned max 4600 RPM. Step # 2,installed a 4780 800 DP with 72 primary jets 45 power valve and 86 secondary jets .He picked up 200 RPM.Step # 3,he removed the stock intake and installed the Edelbrock Torker # 2795 . Left the 4780 Holley without any jet changes.The final result was 5100 RPM. He recommended this setup for jet application.Mondello's camshafts were ground by Engel ,and the MF 700 had .515 int lift, .530 exh lift.276 int duration, 284 exh dur and 108 lobe centers. I used similar cams that mondello's MF 800 has; .540 in, 560 exh, 284 in duration ,292 exh dur 108 lobe sep and it worked well. The MF 800 he recommends for 10 : 1 comp engines and up and he claims it works well in V-drives as well. The choice of spark plugs follow; for starters champion BL-9-Y; Autolite AF-32 or AF-22. The article mentions the Holley 4781 with 77 square jets on the torker with hipo camshafts.That's all for now :)

[058]

Lakesonly, I know of no special parts the 460 marine/industrial engine may contain. I do know Ford used rejected [for automotive/marine use] in indust. engines that run a pump or generator that isn't subject to rpm and load conditions found in automotive/marine use. Parts like blocks/heads/cranks that may have core shift, porosity or machining irregularitys. Thats why you might find a odd bore size or a crank that is ground undersize in an indust. engine. Truck application can be a different story, I've heard of steel cranks and 4 bolt blocks but personally I have never seen these parts. Many knowledgeable Ford people doubt their existence. The only 4 bolt blocks I've seen are the Boss 429, SJC and a few CJs. Steel cranks only were found in the Boss 429 and a few 460 cranks that were made for the CanAm 494" engines.

[Blown 472]

Hey 058 what is the stroke on the 377 engine?

[058]

Spectras Only, Thanks for the article. There is alot of good info. there. I do however question the jetting on that 4781 [850d/p] with 77s square, They came from Holley with 80s/sq. and my experence is that BBFs like a slightly rich mixture. I run 82s/pri and 92s/ sec on a 2x4 tunnelram on my 514", but that may be the difference in a single carb and a 2 carb set up. I dunno...just what works for me.

[058]

Blown 472:
Hey 058 what is the stroke on the 377 engine? Blown, are you talking about the 370" truck engine? Its 3.59" same as the 429 but with a bore of 4.05" [same as a FE 390]

[396_Z]

Blown 472:
Hey 058 what is the stroke on the 377 engine? If your asking about a chevy there are 2 ways to acheive that displacement using stock parts.

[Blown 472]

058:
Blown 472:
Hey 058 what is the stroke on the 377 engine? Blown, are you talking about the 370" truck engine? Its 3.59" same as the 429 but with a bore of 4.05" [same as a FE 390] Thats it, I was kick around the idea of destroking a 29. Thanks.

[LakesOnly]

058:
Lakesonly, I know of no special parts the 460 marine/industrial engine...Ford used rejected...in indust. engines that run a pump or generator that isn't subject to rpm and load conditions found in automotive/marine use. Parts may have core shift, porosity or machining irregularities. Thats why you might find a odd bore size or a crank that is ground undersize in an indust. engine. Thanks, I guess I'll just verify the SCJ iron manifolds. Not sure what the full-length deep pans might fit w/o hitting a crossmember...I suppose a boat.
LO

[WATERROCKET]

Hey, O58, Tell me about the 514 or the 540 stroked motors, If i build a low compression one what kind of HP would you expect? thanks

[058]

How low of c/r do you want to go? The 514 with about 9.0 to 1 can produce 560-600 hp depending on the overall combo. Are you planning on aluminum heads? What carb/manifold setup do you want? what about exhaust, manifolds or headers? I've seen 10 to 1 514" Fords making 760+ HP but these are usually up scale engines with good heads[with work], roller cams and big carbs and top of the line parts. It all depends on how far you and your wallet want to go. :D

[WATERROCKET]

Lets say a 514 with larger carb and stock intake and exaust and clean up the heads. A 8.5/1 or 9/1. Something i can run on pump gas. Thanks