Actors! P'sOS

[OGShocker]

By Shiraz Sidhva
DEAUVILLE, France (Hollywood Reporter) - Pierce Brosnan was the only big star on hand as the Deauville Festival of American Cinema got off to a quiet start over the weekend, and he took advantage of the spotlight to blast the Bush administration's handling of the carnage caused by Hurricane Katrina.
"This man called President Bush has a lot to answer for," the former James Bond actor told reporters Saturday. "I don't know if this man is really taking care of America. This government has been shameful."

[Steve 1]

The traitorous Irish Idiot is also pissed about losing his 007 Job good riddance.. BTW got his citizenship here in 2004

[Poster X]

What do you have to say about uber conservatives that are bashing Bush and conservative newspapers like The Washington Post and New Hampshire's Manchester Union-Leader bashing him? It's not just the liberals. Even well known FOX conservatives are bashing him and Homeland Security director Michael Chertoff.

[Steve 1]

What do you have to say about uber conservatives that are bashing Bush and conservative newspapers like The Washington Post and New Hampshire's Manchester Union-Leader bashing him? It's not just the liberals. Even well known FOX conservatives are bashing him and Homeland Security director Michael Chertoff.
Thought I told you to run along and Play ! Why are you still here??

[Poster X]

Thought I told you to run along and Play ! Why are you still here??
Facts confusing all that wasted synapse of yours?

[HighRoller]

I think it's hilarious that people are bashing the government for "reacting too slow"...DUH! We're talking about the government here. Blaming them for being incompent is like blaming the world for being round.

[Her454]

I think it's hilarious that people are bashing the government for "reacting too slow"...DUH! We're talking about the government here. Blaming them for being incompent is like blaming the world for being round.
Ok, I havent really said much while I've read numerous posts that have bashed the government, Bush...... the finger is being pointed everywhere. The bottom line is, it was a Natural Disaster. People need support right now, not bashing and blaming, and hopefully we can learn something from this horrible disaster that will help in the future. The local authorities should have/could have done more to ensure the safety of the residents, they didn't or couldn't, we do not know all the facts yet. There are still people dying from this and the fact is, YOU are not there, you are here. Safe and sound in your home and secure with your job and family. You are also in the USA, like the Government or not, its not Russia. It could be alot worse and so could you.

[Kurtis500]

I think this whole argument is void of common sense. FEMA, state, county and city emergency services are responsible for implementing and carrying out operations when disaster strikes. A Levy/dam breaking and flooding an entire large city is a disaster plan that is made well in advance. Carrying it out under unknown circumstances is difficult in the operational setting. My fire department (City of Phoenix) sent 53 trt guys by bus early last week before the aftermath problems began. I talked to one of my co-workers in New Orleans about 30 minutes ago. They are holding together a portable radio system to aid in search and rescue operations in the city which is all done by watercraft. The New Orleans Fire Department is under water right now and there is NO communications network for any agency, federal or local, to operate with effectivly. It is all destroyed or disabled. You dont just show up and set up camp then operate as normal. The variables like access, communications, logistics, resources, disease abatement, proper food clothing and shelter for rescuers ALL has to be in place prior to a single boat leaving to venture out in the watered streets and canals of New Orleans to find a person who is stranded that will themselves need most of the above once rescued. The need is for trained personel with the needed tools to meet the job. You need to keep in mind, a levy break and a flooded metropolis like New Orleans was not known or predicted by anyone DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN ahead of time. To direct blame and anger at a Republican President or a Democratic Govenor and Mayor is to look at three people to put a head on a platter for percieved or real mistakes made is ludicrous right now. We dont call our mayor and ask him if its OK to run a house fire call in our first due area, we are an automatic response with guidlines and policies to steer our efforts for the most effective results. FEMA and these disaster response agencies are the same way and they draw from the countries local fire and police personel. If its not perfect, it needs revamping. But dont act like this disaster has a bandaid fix with two or three people being responsible for not applying the bandaid.

[Poster X]

I agree with your entire post sans this point:
You need to keep in mind, a levy break and a flooded metropolis like New Orleans was not known or predicted by anyone DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN ahead of time.
It was known within the federal infrastructure this was not only a possibility but a certainty under present conditions. Nothing was done, but it WAS known.

[Her454]

I agree with your entire post sans this point:
It was known within the federal infrastructure this was not only a possibility but a certainty under present conditions. Nothing was done, but it WAS known.
I work in Sacramento, its a known fact the area is in the same danger if a disaster of this magnitude should occur here. I wonder how truly prepared we are for it, and if I were to be blamed for not acting or doing more to try and fix the issue? California is a far richer state than Louisiana, what is the excuse here? Also, Im sure my family wouldn't be shooting at helicopters if they were trying to rescue us, but I also wouldn't want other Americans sitting there trying to place blame while my loved ones were dying all around me either.

[Kurtis500]

I agree with your entire post sans this point:
It was known within the federal infrastructure this was not only a possibility but a certainty under present conditions. Nothing was done, but it WAS known.
I can see that point. I believe we will see where that understanding came from in the next few weeks or months. I'm not sure when the Levy was built or when/if it had taken this kind of a blow before and what the results were. Time will tell. If someone sat on it with absolute knowledge I believe thats the time to nail the right people. A President, a Govenor and a Mayor are political scapegoats right now. If I remember right, the Department of Interior handles these waterway issues and the lawmakers from the local to federal handle appropriation of funds for infrastructure repair and upgrade. Somewhere in there may be the answer to the levy. I'm not sure though.

[572Daytona]

conservative newspapers like The Washington Post
wtf? The post is one of the most liberal rags in the country and has always taken a negative view of the current administration, similar to yourself.

[Poster X]

The US Army Corps of Engineers is responsible for the levies. Federal Jurisdiction. They have been asking for the money to update the levies for years. They were recently turned down again by Congress and in fact their funding was cut an additional 20% in New Orleans. FEMA even got involved before Homeland Security came into play and did a mock up of the levies failing and the inevitable death count if it were to happen. Moot now, but it was very avoidable. :frown:

[Steve 1]

The US Army Corps of Engineers is responsible for the levies. Federal Jurisdiction. They have been asking for the money to update the levies for years. They were recently turned down again by Congress and in fact their funding was cut an additional 20% in New Orleans. FEMA even got involved before Homeland Security came into play and did a mock up of the levies failing and the inevitable death count if it were to happen. Moot now, but it was very avoidable. :frown:
Mr. X pert it was a new levee that gave way plus there is Absolutely NO protection from a category 4-5 Hurricane when surrounded by water and 20+ feet below sea level Curious; You ever been thru one ?? Blame rests with City officials who did not evacuate the population that very JOB rests in the lap of mayor Nagin as a matter of fact... Bringing a bag lunch to the super dome is NOT a valid emergency plan. Here I am sure you have seen this before
“Louisiana disaster plan, pg 13, para 5 , dated 01/00
'The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating'”
"In scripted appearances being recorded now, officials such as Mayor Ray Nagin, local Red Cross Executive Director Kay Wilkins and City Council President Oliver Thomas drive home the word that the city does not have the resources to move out of harm's way an estimated 134,000 people without transportation
They have from what I last heard 1500-2000 Busses...
You see Mr. Leftie here is the Problem in a nutshell:
“The left has been very successful in creating a complete under class of citizens who rely 100% on the government for food, clothing, shelter and medical care. When the city was evacuated, it became immediately apparent that there was a large segment of the population that was unable and/or unwilling to do anything for themselves, and they became wards of the state.
You see; Self-reliance flies in the face of everything the left and Democrats hold to be sacred: the government is everything and individual effort is immoral and futile. If the Democrats were in power, this would be characterized as a tragic natural event, but with the Republicans in power, it will be a rallying point for political confrontation and the promise of a cradle-to-grave, paternalistic caretaker government”
Which is the reason Bug-eye Jackson is in a panic about the evacuees being moved that far from NO in short they just lost their voter base!!?????

[Steve 1]

http://images.uploadyourimages.com/170796a_ddc2df.jpg

[Poster X]

He evacuated 80%. What's your beef? You expect him to evacuate 2 million people in 2 days but it's ok if your federal government can't mobilize prestored food and water for 11? Seriously, you can't be as stupid as you pretend to be? Can you?

[Steve 1]

He evacuated 80%. What's your beef? You expect him to evacuate 2 million people in 2 days but it's ok if your federal government can't mobilize prestored food and water for 11? Seriously, you can't be as stupid as you pretend to be? Can you?
LMAO that above statement puts the Stupidity ball squarely in your home court Leftie. I notice you never answered my question; have you ever been in a Category 4 or 5 hurricane??Thats why I hate wasting time posting to you nobody squeaking Rats..
http://images.uploadyourimages.com/258950a_excuses_excuses.jpg

[Steve 1]

The less than worthless DEMOCRATIC PARTY politicians that themselves are MORE than responsible for the Katrina planning and aftermath debacle!! Behind every evil on earth is a RAT"

[Steve 1]

http://images.uploadyourimages.com/381851a_domebuses.jpg

[Steve 1]

Penn to the rescue Leftie forgot his drain plug.
http://images.uploadyourimages.com/188519a_penn_narrowweb__200x310.jpg

[Steve 1]

Craig Martelle: FEMA is not a first responder
Don't be so quick to pillory the federal response in New Orleans. Immediate emergency management is primarily a local and state responsibility
Tuesday, September 06, 2005
As one who has received training by FEMA in emergency management and also training by the Department of Defense in consequence management, I believe that the federal response in New Orleans needs clarification.
Craig Martelle, retired as a major in the U.S. Marine Corps, lives in North Huntingdon. He recently launched the Strategic Outlook Institute, a public-policy organization.
The key to emergency management starts at the local level and expands to the state level. Emergency planning generally does not include any federal guarantees, as there can only be limited ones from the federal level for any local plan. FEMA provides free training, education, assistance and respond in case of an emergency, but the local and state officials run their own emergency management program.
Prior development of an emergency plan, addressing all foreseeable contingencies, is the absolute requirement of the local government --and then they share that plan with the state emergency managers to ensure that the state authorities can provide necessary assets not available at the local level. Additionally, good planning will include applicable elements of the federal government (those located in the local area). These processes are well established, but are contingent upon the personal drive of both hired and elected officials at the local level.
I've reviewed the New Orleans emergency management plan. Here is an important section in the first paragraph.
"We coordinate all city departments and allied state and federal agencies which respond to citywide disasters and emergencies through the development and constant updating of an integrated multi-hazard plan. All requests for federal disaster assistance and federal funding subsequent to disaster declarations are also made through this office. Our authority is defined by the Louisiana Emergency Assistance and Disaster Act of 1993, Chapter 6 Section 709, Paragraph B, 'Each parish shall maintain a Disaster Agency which, except as otherwise provided under this act, has jurisdiction over and serves the entire parish.' "
Phil Coale, Associated Press
Flooded school buses in a lot, New Orleans, Sept. 1.
Below
Check the plan -- the "we" in this case is the office of the mayor, Ray Nagin who was very quick and vocal about blaming everyone but his own office. A telling picture, at left, taken by The Associated Press on Sept. 1 and widely circulated on the Internet shows a school bus park, apparently filled to capacity with buses, under about four feet of water. If a mandatory evacuation was ordered, why weren't all the taxpayer-purchased buses used in the effort?
Who could have predicted the anarchy resulting as a consequence? The individuals who devolved into lawless animals embarrass the entirety of America. (I worked in a U.S. Embassy overseas for a couple years and I can imagine what foreign diplomats are thinking.) What societal factors would ever lead people to believe that this behavior was even remotely acceptable?
The folks in New Orleans who are perpetrating the violence and lawlessness are not that way because of low income or of race, but because they personally do not have any honor or commitment to higher ideals. The civil-rights leaders should be ashamed at playing the blame game.
The blame is on the individuals. The blame is on the society that allowed these individuals to develop the ideal that the individual is greater than the national pride he is destroying. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was very clear in her comments that she was offended at those who suggested the suffering in New Orleans was prolonged because of race.
As a retired Marine, I hang my head in shame to see my fellow Americans degenerate so far. I spent so many years in the Corps helping the citizens of other countries rise to a higher level of personal responsibility to ensure that in case of emergency, anarchy did not necessarily follow. When people are held to a higher standard of personal responsibility and they accept that, then they will do the right thing when the time comes.
It seems that the mayor of New Orleans is leading the effort in not taking responsibility for his actions. The emergency managers for the state of Louisiana do not have much to say either. The failure in the first 48 hours to provide direction for survivors is theirs to live with. When FEMA was able to take over, it started out behind and had to develop its plan on the fly. Now the federal government has established priorities -- rescue the stranded, evacuate the city, flow in resources and fix the levee. It appears that now there is a plan and it is being systematically executed.
Hurricane Katrina was a national tragedy -- not just in the number of lives lost or the amount of physical damage, but also in the failure of people to do what is right when no one is looking.
http://images.uploadyourimages.com/886581a_bijv9j.jpg

[Poster X]

Your flip flopping all over the place homeboy. What are you wanting to debate? Are you now trying to pin the whole thing on the mayor? There has never been a president in history that eascaped criticism. Now that you're old enough to vote you are going to have to get used to that. There is definite responsibility on the mayor. However, we have yet to hear the whole story regarding the evacuation so it's a little early to start assuming blame yet. He did order a mandatory evacuation...we know that. He did order Marshall Law...we know that. What we don't know is if the remaining citizens voluntarily stayed or just couldn't find the evacuation route? Every city has an evacuation route. Do you know yours? You also have to remember, most people now watch national and international news such as CNN, FOX and MSNBC. If so, they would have only received sound bytes about the actual evacuation... if anything at all? The extenuating circumstance that you refuse to accept is George Bush declared the entire Gulf Coast a Disaster Area prior to the hurricane reaching land. Once the President declared it a disaster area, it then fell under the auspice of Homeland Security.
There is certain failure on the City level. There is certain failure on the State level. There is certain failure on the National Level. The national level is the one we count on after it's a disaster. In this case the President made it a disaster before it was a disaster to expedite involvement of his baby...Homeland Security. Do you get that?
I have been in 3 Hurricanes. All were level 3 I think? I have NO IDEA how that information helps you but by all means...have at it.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

There is certain failure on the City level. There is certain failure on the State level. There is certain failure on the National Level. The national level is the one we count on after it's a disaster. In this case the President made it a disaster before it was a disaster to expedite involvement of his baby...Homeland Security. Do you get that?
I have been in 3 Hurricanes. All were level 3 I think? I have NO IDEA how that information helps you but by all means...have at it.
Poster X, you're in a deep hole now, here, have a NEW shovel.
Alright buddy boy .... you wanna evacuate 134,000 people? Lessee .... Huricane impact was known 72 hours prior.
All you had to do was get a couple hundred miles WEST of the landfall point.
Lets go with 1500 busses (and don't give me crap about a driver shortage, in an EMERGENCY, you put enyone with a driver's license in the seat and be damned the insurance till later)
Most of those busses will easily hold 40 people, they appear to be full-size (short buss is reserved for you PosterX)
1500 busses times 40 people is TAADAAA 60,000 people per trip.
200 miles takes 4 hours at 50MPH / 8 hour round trip
2 trips plus a third to pick up scraps equals the ability to transport 180,000 people in ONLY 24 hours. 44,000 ABOVE the number, so don't give me anything about buss breakdowns either, any REASONABLE percentage is eaten up in that 40% excess capacity, letr alone the 2-day cushion.
Have the governor order the state PD to "Only Job, keep the roadways flowing OUT of town, especially along the route West."
If Ray Nagel hada wanted to, he could have created a GHOST TOWN (a big easy ghost town) 2 full days prior to the hurricane striking. Then, the only people to evacuate later would be a few people in hospitals before their generators quit
The Mayor fouled up, and ran from town to save his skin. Now he points fingers, especially at the Governor
The Governor couldn't make a snap-decision to save her (or, as we have now seen 30,000 other people's) but(s). He screwed up, but let's not dare blame a black democrat. SHE screwed up, but let's not dare blame a woman democrat. Let's blame the folks ar FEMA (who advertise a 72 to 96 hour response ability (meaning you will NOT GET HELP for 3 to 4 days) and the president who can personally do NOTHING. The LEGAL RESPONSIBILITIES are with the mayor and Governor. They did nothing to request help untill it was TOO LATE. They MUST REQUEST HELP in order to get it.
Only ONCE has the US Govt stepped in without the governor's request. Know when it was?
Try the 1963(?) Watts Riots, Chicago I believe it was (and a democrat of all things, LBJ). Sent in Natl Guard Activated troops to stop the riots because the city had lost controll and the state was going to do NADA. (that means nothing).

[SmokinLowriderSS]

On a side note, I think ANYONE who decides to camp out through ONE hurricane is nuts, to stay arround through 3, is a FOOL. Keep it up and one of them will kill you.
Yes, I dodge tornado's here at home, but they are only from a few feet to a half-mile wide and sudden, not a hundred miles and trackable for weeks.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Steve 1 ...........
Thanks for your time in the corps my man. Semper Fi. :cool:

[Poster X]

All you had to do was get a couple hundred miles WEST of the landfall point.
Ahem...<cough> I don't reckon you saw all the traffic in New Orleans on TV the two days prior to the hurricane hitting?
Let me see if I have this straight? It's all the Mayor and the Governor's fault and no one should ever hold George Bush to task for something we can pin on somebody else. That about right?
I guess I should further add: he runs a perfect government and never makes a mistake. Homeland Security is a good thing and no one could have done a better job than they did. Feel better? Apparently words have no value.
I'll continue. Adam Sadler is a better actor than Robert DeNiro. Pudding at buffet's doesn't have alien crumb thingy's in it. Alligators never bite. Cell phones always work. The wife wants me to screw Christie Brinkley.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Incidentally PosterX ......... MARTIAL LAW ... is not a law. No legal code written anywhere concerns it. It is a CONDITION where the US Military steps in, says "What we say goes, screw the rest of the rules". It is a CONCEPT, agreed to and legally aproved of by the US Supreme Court.
Of course, Emminent Domain is a LAW in the constitution, recently expanded (nearly re-written) by the US Supreme Court.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Ahem...<cough> I don't reckon you saw all the traffic in New Orleans on TV the two days prior to the hurricane hitting?
Let me see if I have this straight? It's all the Mayor and the Governor's fault and no one should ever hold George Bush to task for something we can pin on somebody else. That about right?
I guess I should further add: he runs a perfect government and never makes a mistake. Homeland Security is a good thing and no one could have done a better job than they did. Feel better? Apparently words have no value.
I'll continue. Adam Sadler is a better actor than Robert DeNiro. Pudding at buffet's doesn't have alien crumb thingy's in it. Alligators never bite. Cell phones always work. The wife wants me to screw Christie Brinkley.
HEY!!! ANYONE!!!! Can we please get some meds in here? Some Proczak, or at least Methaqualone (tranquilizer known as qualudes on the street) please? Overexposure to Actual facts, simple reason, and (no longer comon) sense has thrown Poster X into haluscinations. He's babbling along making even less swense than he was (which was at least folowable).
I'll try to make it clearer to ya Posterx ......... Here's a situation .......
You are driving 90 in a 70MPH freeway, late for work .......
YOU get pulled over and ticketed for ... oh ... speeding, tailgating, and passing on the shoulder (a cop-chopper watches).
The people who were doing 68 in front of you get NOTHING. Why? They were making you late for work werent they?
They were folowing the law, the minimum speed on the freeway was 55.
You take your ticket to court the next day and are sent away. Why? Because your court date is not for 3 weeks and they will NOT SEE YOU EARLY. Why? Because they have rules on procedure.
You wear a tank-top t-shirt into court and shower shoes, and are thrown out by the judge. Why? Because they have rules on clothing and decorum.
We live in a country ruled BY LAWS. We live in a FEDERALISM where states have enough power to keep the federal government at bay except in extrordinary circumstances. This was set up 200+ years ago, and has worked just fine untill you want a scapegoat but don't want to use the CORRECT ONE. The Governor of Louisiana COULD HAVE activated her own Natl Guardsmen.
US Wide, there are 1.4 MILLION Guardsmen, only a small percentage are overseas now. Tues after the storm, My unit called me to see if I was willing to go IF A REQUIREMENT CAME DOWN. None has come. (I said, just ask, and I am yours, give me a few hours to change clothes & pack)
Several surrounding states had thousands of National guardsmen available within a day, the response from LA, "Stand By, We don't need your help."
Face it, the people who fouled this up were:
1--- A Mayor who ABANDONED his city, made NO PLAN to evacuate ANYONE if they had no way out of their own, made NO PROVISION to care for thousands he shacked up in a stadium meant to hold people for hours, not days, and WAS UNABLE TO IMPROVISE ON THE RUN to at least make an effort to save lives (except his own)
2--- A Governor who made no plans to evacuate anyone either, refused to activate her own military to either rescue, medicate, or MAINTAIN LAW AND ORDER (untill actually threatened by a memmo from the President who came very close to stepping all over her (I wish he had)). At THAT point she seeks advice from a Clinton-era FEMA head to try to bail her arse out of 25' of flooded city.
FEMA is a BACK-UP force, NOT a first-response force. Things are actually running quite well there right now with levees plugged, people evacuated, being transported to other places for survival and care. Too bad it took 4 DAYS to get started.
It's running on FEMA's plan now, bypassing that idiot governor and the mouthpiece mayor.
They both need to give up the jobs, they are useless. I only hope somebody sues THEM for "unnecissary loss of life" in the lawsuits that inevitably folow these days (to my disgust). Charges of "Negligent Homocide" are more fitting.

[Steve 1]

SS Amen.. Nice posting!

[Poster X]

You guys will say damn near anything to keep Georgie boy off the griddle. There is nothing he could do you would purceive as wrong. Debating you is like debating a child on McDonalds. They just like the clown. The food doesn't matter.
I have no idea what that rant about tickets and speeding was all about? You think maybe the bus drivers should have driven 80 on two wheels like Smokey and the Bandit? BTW.. this just in, buses were turned around by the national guard because of red tape.
I'll agree the Governor should be burned at the stake if that will cheer y'all up? She's an idiot in the first degree anyway and I'd rather her not be a part of any politics in my life.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Well, progress has been had.
At least someone OTHER THAN the president f'd up (amazing).
Why is it that some people refuse to aknowledge the rules we live within every single day? Forgetting them is so handy when they get in the way.
Sure, all those busses were turned arround, and parked ever so neatly BACK IN THE YARD THEY CAME FROM? Yea, riiiiight. Evacuation was ordered 7 September, when did the huricane hit? Lessee... it was AUGUST wasn't it? When did all the shyte start hitting the fan, about 2 September. By the 4th or 5th, darn right I wouldn't have allowed anyone into MY borough either if I had a controlling interest in a suburb. It's called being responsible for your citizens. Evacuation ordered A WEEK TOO LATE. Why you insist on denying? Because the mayor and governor are both incompetent at managing a wet paper sack (and aparently even the mayor doesn't HAVE a sack, paper or otherwise).
I'm not pulling anything out of my rear to "cover" the president's back, I'm sitting here quoting the facts as they occured and the federal AND state statutes that guided them to this end. I also am blaming the people who were ACTUALLY RESPONSIBLE within those rules who did not carry their own weight instead of the people who were restricted from doing anything BY THE LAWS OF THE NATION.

[Poster X]

Well, progress has been had.
At least someone OTHER THAN the president f'd up (amazing).
Why is it that some people refuse to aknowledge the rules we live within every single day? Forgetting them is so handy when they get in the way.
Sure, all those busses were turned arround, and parked ever so neatly BACK IN THE YARD THEY CAME FROM? Yea, riiiiight. Evacuation was ordered 7 September, when did the huricane hit? Lessee... it was AUGUST wasn't it? When did all the shyte start hitting the fan, about 2 September. By the 4th or 5th, darn right I wouldn't have allowed anyone into MY borough either if I had a controlling interest in a suburb. It's called being responsible for your citizens. Evacuation ordered A WEEK TOO LATE. Why you insist on denying? Because the mayor and governor are both incompetent at managing a wet paper sack (and aparently even the mayor doesn't HAVE a sack, paper or otherwise).
I'm not pulling anything out of my rear to "cover" the president's back, I'm sitting here quoting the facts as they occured and the federal AND state statutes that guided them to this end. I also am blaming the people who were ACTUALLY RESPONSIBLE within those rules who did not carry their own weight instead of the people who were restricted from doing anything BY THE LAWS OF THE NATION.
You're not quoting facts. You're distorting them. I'll give you the Governor. She's an idiot. Say what you like. However, the mayor ordered a mandatory evacuation and declared Marshall law. The rules for evacuation were set long before he came into office. He may could have done a better Job? We won't know until it all plays out. Yet, he wasn't nowhere near the only party responsible. The Homeland Security act is what it is. When George Bush declared the Gulf Coast a disaster area on August 27th BEFORE the hurricane hit, that took it out of the Governor's hands, and the Mayor's hands, and put control of the situation squarely on Michael Brown under Homeland Security. I realize the Prez was begging the Gov to sign something so he could act but, if he would read the bylaws of the Homeland Security Act (which he created) he would have realized he DID NOT need the Governors permission to act. That my friend, is a fact. Maybe you should read it too?

[Steve 1]

Nothing here let's move on.

[Poster X]

Nothing here let's move on.
Facts always were a problem for the right.

[UBFJ #454]

To me, Facts seem to be a Problem for everyone that's arguing these days ... All that seems to be important is Winning Their Arguement, Not Dealing With FACTS nor Logical SOLUTIONS.

[Poster X]

Albeit there was quite a bit of thread drift, it seems the right (as represented in this forum) feels Homeland Security and FEMA has done a stand up job and is beyond accountability. Oh, and I'm pretty sure they'd like to see the displaced Southerners burned in an oven and New Orleans bulldozed? Seig heil!

[Seadog]

Let's get a few things straight. The Marshall Plan was an international plan. Martial Law is the suspension of the normal legal guidelines in a crises.
Bush could not declare the area a disaster until after the event happened. As such, nothing could be moved in until the governor asked for help. The governor of LA is new to the job and apperently was ill-equiped to handle the task. She failed to follow some of the basic requirements required by law to instigate the federal response. However, it is my opinion that she probably had people that were in positions to tell her what steps to take. The failure was probably theirs.
Mistakes were made at all levels of government. It will always be that way. We cannot anticipate everything. And sometimes difficult decisions are made, knowing that it will offend some. I will not fault those on the ground, but I will fault those who sit on their ivory towers and criticise hard working people.

[Seadog]

And by the way, the New Orleans disaster plan called for using public transportation to haul evacuees away. For what ever reason, the Mayor and his people failed to do so. It did not mention where to haul them and that is a little detail someone overlooked.

[Poster X]

Bush could not declare the area a disaster until after the event happened.
Au contrare mon ami. Bush indeed DID declare the Gulf Coast a disaster area BEFORE the hurricane hit. But for the sake of argument. Let's say he didn't. Let's also say he could not do a thing because the Governor of Lousiana is/was an idiot. What's the excuse for Mississippi and Alabama? Their governors did declare their respective States a disaster and immediately asked for federal intervention?

[Forkin' Crazy]

Interesting thread guys. That pic of Shawn Pinhead is funny as hell!!!
Yea, the Mayor dropped the ball. So did that liberal bitch Blanco.
I feel so sorry for the people that my government let down.
There is so much corruption in NO. Now it is all in ruin.
Blanco wasn't doing anything... Pres Bush called her and suggested evacuation, etc. She waited 24 hrs before she did a thing.
Thanks to her and the mayor thousands are dead.
This is what happens in a liberal paradise.
I'm just putting the blame where it really belongs.
:hammerhea

[Poster X]

And what about Mississippi and Alabama? Shit, Alabama even has a Republican Governor and y'all left him there to rot. What's up with that? Maybe it's the Mayors fault?

[Forkin' Crazy]

No it's homeland security's fault. Written by your liberals in lovely gunless, crime ridden Washinton DC!!! :sleeping:

[Poster X]

No it's homeland security's fault. Written by your liberals in lovely gunless, crime ridden Washinton DC!!! :sleeping:
Step away from the crack pipe. Really, the world needs ditchdiggers too. Come back when you have a lucid thought.

[Forkin' Crazy]

Step away from the crack pipe. Really, the world needs ditchdiggers too. Come back when you have a lucid thought.
Brilliant!!!

[bordsmnj]

Craig Martelle: FEMA is not a first responder
Don't be so quick to pillory the federal response in New Orleans. Immediate emergency management is primarily a local and state responsibility
Tuesday, September 06, 2005
As one who has received training by FEMA in emergency management and also training by the Department of Defense in consequence management, I believe that the federal response in New Orleans needs clarification.
Craig Martelle, retired as a major in the U.S. Marine Corps, lives in North Huntingdon. He recently launched the Strategic Outlook Institute, a public-policy organization.
The key to emergency management starts at the local level and expands to the state level. Emergency planning generally does not include any federal guarantees, as there can only be limited ones from the federal level for any local plan. FEMA provides free training, education, assistance and respond in case of an emergency, but the local and state officials run their own emergency management program.
Prior development of an emergency plan, addressing all foreseeable contingencies, is the absolute requirement of the local government --and then they share that plan with the state emergency managers to ensure that the state authorities can provide necessary assets not available at the local level. Additionally, good planning will include applicable elements of the federal government (those located in the local area). These processes are well established, but are contingent upon the personal drive of both hired and elected officials at the local level.
I've reviewed the New Orleans emergency management plan. Here is an important section in the first paragraph.
"We coordinate all city departments and allied state and federal agencies which respond to citywide disasters and emergencies through the development and constant updating of an integrated multi-hazard plan. All requests for federal disaster assistance and federal funding subsequent to disaster declarations are also made through this office. Our authority is defined by the Louisiana Emergency Assistance and Disaster Act of 1993, Chapter 6 Section 709, Paragraph B, 'Each parish shall maintain a Disaster Agency which, except as otherwise provided under this act, has jurisdiction over and serves the entire parish.' "
Phil Coale, Associated Press
Flooded school buses in a lot, New Orleans, Sept. 1.
Below
Check the plan -- the "we" in this case is the office of the mayor, Ray Nagin who was very quick and vocal about blaming everyone but his own office. A telling picture, at left, taken by The Associated Press on Sept. 1 and widely circulated on the Internet shows a school bus park, apparently filled to capacity with buses, under about four feet of water. If a mandatory evacuation was ordered, why weren't all the taxpayer-purchased buses used in the effort?
Who could have predicted the anarchy resulting as a consequence? The individuals who devolved into lawless animals embarrass the entirety of America. (I worked in a U.S. Embassy overseas for a couple years and I can imagine what foreign diplomats are thinking.) What societal factors would ever lead people to believe that this behavior was even remotely acceptable?
The folks in New Orleans who are perpetrating the violence and lawlessness are not that way because of low income or of race, but because they personally do not have any honor or commitment to higher ideals. The civil-rights leaders should be ashamed at playing the blame game.
The blame is on the individuals. The blame is on the society that allowed these individuals to develop the ideal that the individual is greater than the national pride he is destroying. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was very clear in her comments that she was offended at those who suggested the suffering in New Orleans was prolonged because of race.
As a retired Marine, I hang my head in shame to see my fellow Americans degenerate so far. I spent so many years in the Corps helping the citizens of other countries rise to a higher level of personal responsibility to ensure that in case of emergency, anarchy did not necessarily follow. When people are held to a higher standard of personal responsibility and they accept that, then they will do the right thing when the time comes.
It seems that the mayor of New Orleans is leading the effort in not taking responsibility for his actions. The emergency managers for the state of Louisiana do not have much to say either. The failure in the first 48 hours to provide direction for survivors is theirs to live with. When FEMA was able to take over, it started out behind and had to develop its plan on the fly. Now the federal government has established priorities -- rescue the stranded, evacuate the city, flow in resources and fix the levee. It appears that now there is a plan and it is being systematically executed.
Hurricane Katrina was a national tragedy -- not just in the number of lives lost or the amount of physical damage, but also in the failure of people to do what is right when no one is looking.
http://images.uploadyourimages.com/886581a_bijv9j.jpg
poster x how can you read this and still feel you have someything legit to shoot your mouth off about? have a nice day liberal commie fag.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

So, since I have my facts wrong Posterboy, just WHEN did anyone declare "Martial Law" in New Orleans?
Just when did Gov Blasco activate the LA Natl Guard to enforce it?
How many personell from the LANG were activated?
Why did she refuse the help of the other states surrounding guard units which had been stood up and were ready the day after the storm blew through? 7,400 personnell were available to her.
When did the first soldiers arrive in NO to square away things?
How many soldiers waded in amongst 130,000+ people, a LOT of whom were being dangerous/deadly/destructive?
Go ahead, post some FACTS that are from verifiable (non-lib-blog) sources, I'll be happy to confirm them for ya.

[Poster X]

That's a lot of work. I'll give it a shot tomorrow. I won't defend her because I agree she's a piece of shit. I will defend that the Mayor declared a forced evacuation http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/28/hurricane.katrina/ and imposed Martial Law http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2005/08/update-new-orleans-mayor-declares.php other than that. I gotta go to bed. C'ya.

[Forkin' Crazy]

I will defend that the Mayor declared a forced evacuation.
Yea, after the fact!!!
Oh and the Guard were there before the Hurricane hit.

[Poster X]

Yea, after the fact!!!
Oh and the Guard were there before the Hurricane hit.
After the fact? I've said that all along. I switch off Bill O'Reilly often enough to read real news. It would be no shock to you had you done the same from time to time. No one argued the guard. As a matter of fact, by bringing the guard into it, you are inadvertantly supporting the Governor whom we all agreed to hate. You probably should drink your coffeee first and then open your mouth?

[Steve 1]

X who here EXACTLY cares about your worthless Leftist Rant? Whats under the bag
I will take a shot here...
1.You type well I would assume dainty female like hands...
2.Crappy little Pay check and matching Beacon Score... (goes well with and standard issue for a welfare driven Liberal)
3.Believe the Communist rooted ACLU adds balance!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So that means one of many things foremost a Queer lover...
4.Waffles when pressed for answers; goes with #3.
5.No notable achievements in the real world...
6.A Neo Communist.
7.Believe personal Liberties and democracies should be abolished on the entire planet
8.Understand that closet Communists and Socialists must appear to be something (they never could be) in order to have followers and believers.
9.A Liberal/leftist which has become words of connivance to many sewer meanings notably of the following human rubbish : socialists, stalinists communists, fascists and anarchists...
10.You tolerate and nurture all kinds of Anti American Scumbags except those who DISAGREE with you!!
11.And Last the Biggie a foaming at the mouth pants pissing Bush Hater...

[Poster X]

You forgot pretty eyes and a huge penis. :D

[Steve 1]

Add this to the X list
12 Has holes in both sides of the underwear A La ACLU standard issue Fag of the loom
.

[Forkin' Crazy]

AfAs a matter of fact, by bringing the guard into it, you are inadvertantly supporting the Governor whom we all agreed to hate. You probably should drink your coffeee first and then open your mouth?
What? :confused:
Maybe you should spit whatever that is in your mouth. I am having a hard time understanding where you are trying to go with that.... :confused:
Oh and you had better check your spelling too. :idea:

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Just how is "bringing the facts of the guard" into the discussion being SUPPORTIVE of an incompetent Governor?
Sure, she sent in the Natl Guard, 6,000 troops, AFTER the looting/destruction started. They arrived 5 days AFTER the storm arrived. Even THEY were overwhelmed by that time by the thugs with guns roaming arround. (she probably forbade them to have bullets, typical for a dem. gun-hater, those things KILL PEOPLE)
Pres Busch had to send in (over her empty head) the 82nd Airborne Division to heli-evacuate the stadium and hospitals, which may have been technically illegal as I don't believe she APPROVED IT, but he had had entirely enough of her sitting by while HER TOWN slowly wiped itself out while she was supposed to protect it.
She sent the guard in, yea, TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE, might as well have not bothered, then cried to the FED Govt for equipment she could BORROW FROM OTHER US MILLITARY UNITS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY. Useless bag.
Hey, maybe she & PosterboyXXX are related, her illegitimate & poor transvestite daughter perhaps? They certainly refuse to think (just alike).

[Poster X]

You're pissing up a rope. I already wrote her off as an incompetent waste of oxygen. (Much like myself) By the way... you got the Busch part right. :D

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Busch ........... Nope, never drink the stuff. I have standards (flexible, but only so far). Budweiser products generally, with a few small products made by Miller & Coors as well (MGD or Killians Irish Red)