What do you liberals have to say about this?

[FreshTracks]

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050901/capt.flpc21109012015.hurricane_katrina_flpc211.jpg ?x=380&y=235&sig=NbUvEfVIaferkxoZTiys0Q--
The next time you are forced to listen to someone try to blame the lack of help for New Orleans on our Federal Government show them this.
Then ask them why the local Mayor and/or Governor did not deploy these buses August 27 and 28 to help those who could not afford to get out. I am worn out listening to that blowhard mayor (who saw to it that friends were given special leeway to evacuate the Superdome before many of the sick and elderly) and his cronies complain that the President hasn't done enough. And, while your at it, remind the whiners that the majority of the suffering taking place now is a direct result of most of those people not leaving the city last Sunday. I understand that there were some people who couldn't leave for various reasons (such as folks in nursing homes who were only evacuated Saturday), but for the majority of these folks, they would not be in the predicament they are in now If they had simply left. These buses are testimony to the fact that much more could have been done before things progressed to the point they are now.
It is not the Federal Government's (and consequently, the President) fault those people did not leave.

[Jordy]

It is not the Federal Government's (and consequently, the President) fault those people did not leave.
Bullshit. Those are clearly federal school buses. :D :D :D

[Poster X]

WHAT ABOUT MISSISSIPPI AND ALABAMA? :notam:

[Brooski]

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050901/capt.flpc21109012015.hurricane_katrina_flpc211.jpg ?x=380&y=235&sig=NbUvEfVIaferkxoZTiys0Q--
The next time you are forced to listen to someone try to blame the lack of help for New Orleans on our Federal Government show them this.
Then ask them why the local Mayor and/or Governor did not deploy these buses August 27 and 28 to help those who could not afford to get out. I am worn out listening to that blowhard mayor (who saw to it that friends were given special leeway to evacuate the Superdome before many of the sick and elderly) and his cronies complain that the President hasn't done enough. And, while your at it, remind the whiners that the majority of the suffering taking place now is a direct result of most of those people not leaving the city last Sunday. I understand that there were some people who couldn't leave for various reasons (such as folks in nursing homes who were only evacuated Saturday), but for the majority of these folks, they would not be in the predicament they are in now If they had simply left. These buses are testimony to the fact that much more could have been done before things progressed to the point they are now.
It is not the Federal Government's (and consequently, the President) fault those people did not leave.
I agree its not the Feds fault the people did not leave. IMO, Everyone dropped the ball somehow or another. When it was time for elections, the Mayor would have buses go out into the neighborhoods and pick up people and take them to the polls. New Orleans did not have a plan, the state did not have a plan, the feds did not have a plan. All forms of government screwed up. And they wouldnt let the Red Cross in.......

[pjones]

Has anyone seen or heard any clips or comments
from the Governor of the state of Louisiana?
I've been following this pretty close and have seen
very liitle of her...lots of clips of Mayor Nagin
and several other political figures but no Kathleen Blanco...
wonder why?

[HocusPocus]

we all know its easier to blame someone else for your screw ups... especially in politics.

[2Driver]

Bullshit. Those are clearly federal school buses. :D :D :D
too funny :D :D

[MagicMtnDan]

The mayor wouldn't comment when asked why those buses weren't used.
Probably couldn't use them because the bus drivers fled with their police department :jawdrop:
The governor is as corrupt as it gets. She was in way over her head. While everyone's picking on the easy target (the President), the truth is the city and state officials have the blood of their citizens on their hands!
Dear Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin,
When you tell people to go to the Super Dome, why don't YOU have water, food, and medical treatment available for them?
When you KNOW that a Cat 5 hurricane is coming why don't YOU have YOUR National Guard ready?
When you're facing a storm of that size and intensity, why don't YOU have YOUR plan prepared and shared with other officials and the public?
When you tell people to evacuate, why do YOU think that's a good enough plan?!
When you have buses that can evacuate 13,000+ people, why didn't you use them?
What happened to your police department?
Did you lobby the Federal government for billions of dollars to upgrade the levees (before the storm hit)?
It's the blame game. It's easier to blame someone else than stand up and say you could have done better.

[Rexone]

WHAT ABOUT MISSISSIPPI AND ALABAMA? :notam:
They don't have buses?

[Brooski]

The mayor wouldn't comment when asked why those buses weren't used.
Probably couldn't use them because the bus drivers fled with their police department :jawdrop:
The governor is as corrupt as it gets. She was in way over her head. While everyone's picking on the easy target (the President), the truth is the city and state officials have the blood of their citizens on their hands!
Dear Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin,
When you tell people to go to the Super Dome, why don't YOU have water, food, and medical treatment available for them?
When you KNOW that a Cat 5 hurricane is coming why don't YOU have YOUR National Guard ready?
When you're facing a storm of that size and intensity, why don't YOU have YOUR plan prepared and shared with other officials and the public?
When you tell people to evacuate, why do YOU think that's a good enough plan?!
When you have buses that can evacuate 13,000+ people, why didn't you use them?
What happened to your police department?
Did you lobby the Federal government for billions of dollars to upgrade the levees (before the storm hit)?
It's the blame game. It's easier to blame someone else than stand up and say you could have done better.
I dont blame the Officers for leaving. They are one of the lowest paid departments in the Country. I think they make around $13 an hour. Lots of corruption in the PD also. I would quit too.
The state couldnt use the National Guard, most of them that were trained for that type of disaster were shipped to Iraq by Bush.
I think the Governor has her head in the sand, cuz she know someone is going to have it.
But, what about the other Parrish, were the Parrish president pleaded every day for someone to come and help evacuate the nursing home? No one ever showed, and the elderly all drowned. That was a screw up, a bad one.

[bordsmnj]

I didn't think black folk were allowed to ride the bus down there. :p
There's plenty of blame to go around on this one.
i got news for yuh. those buses are Orange!
they were fresh outa black,brown and white buses becuase the feds didn't supply them.
i wonder how much labor they are going to have to IMPORT to rebuild that place? will their local unemployment rate change :idea:
i hate to kick them whenthey're down but that place was kind of a shit hole for a reason.

[bordsmnj]

.....But, what about the other Parrish, were the Parrish president pleaded every day for someone to come and help evacuate the nursing home? No one ever showed, and the elderly all drowned. That was a screw up, a bad one.
that's sad. :(

[Forkin' Crazy]

Has anyone seen or heard any clips or comments
from the Governor of the state of Louisiana?
I've been following this pretty close and have seen
very liitle of her...lots of clips of Mayor Nagin
and several other political figures but no Kathleen Blanco...
wonder why?
Maybe she is trying to enjoy the last few days of her administration!! :hammerhea

[Mrs. Bordsmnj]

i got news for yuh. those buses are Orange!
they were fresh outa black,brown and white buses becuase the feds didn't supply them.
i wonder how much labor they are going to have to IMPORT to rebuild that place? will their local unemployment rate change :idea:
i hate to kick them whenthey're down but that place was kind of a shit hole for a reason.
Oooooh, you are gonna get a bunch of crap for that statement !!!! :boxingguy :D

[bordsmnj]

Color me confused. I don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about. That doesn't happen often.
i was kinda joking and then not joking. it's been a long day :D

[bordsmnj]

Oooooh, you are gonna get a bunch of crap for that statement !!!! :boxingguy :D
ain't you sposed to be wrk?

[Poster X]

i got news for yuh. those buses are Orange!
they were fresh outa black,brown and white buses becuase the feds didn't supply them.
i wonder how much labor they are going to have to IMPORT to rebuild that place? will their local unemployment rate change :idea:
i hate to kick them whenthey're down but that place was kind of a shit hole for a reason.
I can only hope and pray a firestorm and earthquake takes away your family slowly over an agonizing four or five days while they scream and beg for help. Wonder if you'll show a modicum of compassion after that?

[Forkin' Crazy]

The state couldnt use the National Guard, most of them that were trained for that type of disaster were shipped to Iraq by Bush.
Bullshit alarm... liberal spin!!!

[Mrs. Bordsmnj]

I can only hope and pray a firestorm and earthquake takes away your family slowly over an agonizing four or five days while they scream and beg for help. Wonder if you'll show a modicum of compassion after that?
Suck a dick, you liberal cocksucker. :D

[bordsmnj]

I can only hope and pray a firestorm and earthquake takes away your family slowly over an agonizing four or five days while they scream and beg for help. Wonder if you'll show a modicum of compassion after that?
well, let me see. ay whats a nice way to say go **** yourself?

[Forkin' Crazy]

I can only hope and pray a firestorm and earthquake takes away your family slowly over an agonizing four or five days while they scream and beg for help. Wonder if you'll show a modicum of compassion after that?
You would wish death and destruction on some one just because they made an callous, idiotic remark?
I am not condeming you!!! :lightsabe

[Jordy]

WHAT ABOUT MISSISSIPPI AND ALABAMA? :notam:
Gotta love the Liberal shift as well. Let's see, we have facts. OH NO, NOT FACTS!!!! Facts are Liberal Kryptonite. What can we do??? Cloud the issue, misconstrue facts, RED HERRING, shift the focus, make counter-accusations. Whew, that was close. :D :D :D

[bordsmnj]

Wow the wife slammed yuh before i could. i'm just a internet tuogh guy but my ol' lady will tear your head off :eek: :2purples:

[Forkin' Crazy]

I for one, would like to slap Mary Landrieu in the face!!! :)

[Poster X]

Gotta love the Liberal shift as well. Let's see, we have facts. OH NO, NOT FACTS!!!! Facts are Liberal Kryptonite. What can we do??? Cloud the issue, misconstrue facts, RED HERRING, shift the focus, make counter-accusations. Whew, that was close. :D :D :D
That's a lot of words not to say anything. Again I ask, what about Mississippi and Alabama? They did everything right according to Homeland Securites rules of aid yet they waited 5 days for help and even then it wasn't FEMA who showed up. You talk about facts. Show me some. I have an open mind.

[Forkin' Crazy]

I have an open mind.
So that is why most of it has fallen out. :hammerhea
They are getting help. You have to realize the magnatude and the logistics of this operation. :220v:

[Schiada76]

That's a lot of words not to say anything. Again I ask, what about Mississippi and Alabama? They did everything right according to Homeland Securites rules of aid yet they waited 5 days for help and even then it wasn't FEMA who showed up. You talk about facts. Show me some. I have an open mind.
100,000 square miles of misery doesn't get fixed when you snap your fingers in real life. This isn't a video game liberal fcktard.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Run_em_Hard]

I have been told that when the buses went to pick up people at the stadium to evacuate them to Utah and give them food and shelter and cloths, for free. Some refused. They said that they would rather stay there than come to Utah. I say good. Than we don't want em!

[Poster X]

FEMA knew the storm was going to be devastating 6 days before it hit. So in total they had ELEVEN DAYS to prepare. You'd think they could round up a couple helicopters and some water? I am talking about Mississippi and Alabama so I don't want to hear that "they were shooting at me" crybaby spin.

[572Daytona]

Actually it was a valid point about the unemployment situation should be helped by the hurricane should they decide to rebuild. Florida's economy has been boosted by the reconstruction efforts from several hurricanes. Basically you have a lot of federal and insurance money pouring into the area for reconstruction and that will fuel other business as well. I was reading somewhere where they were already hiring a lot of the unemployed people in Mississippi for the clean up efforts there.

[Forkin' Crazy]

This isn't a video game liberal fcktard.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Easy on the guy now.... he has lost his mind... or most of it anyway. :squiggle:

[Jordy]

That's a lot of words not to say anything.
Thanks, I learned from the best, but I don't have to hide behind a made up identity to do it. ;)
Again I ask, what about Mississippi and Alabama?
Again, this thread isn't about Mississippi and Alabama. Lets change the focus away from the screw ups in New Orleans so all the feeble minds keep blaming Bush and Iraq for the hurricane. :rolleyes:
They did everything right according to Homeland Securites rules of aid yet they waited 5 days for help and even then it wasn't FEMA who showed up.
The cradle to grave mentality just blows me away. You live in a hurricane zone for Christ's sake, why not make some effort to be prepared yourself?? Does the Federal Government need to show up and wipe your ass for you too or can you handle that on your own??? Let's see here, 90,000 square miles of devistation??? Yeah, that's going to take a little time. Why not start with the areas that were hardest hit and still in the most danger??? Oh that's right, because they're shooting at rescue workers and raping and looting.
You talk about facts. Show me some. I have an open mind.
That's funny shit right there, I don't care who you are. :rolleyes:
OK, I'm done with this. You want to continue to live with your head up your ass thriving on everything that CNN has to say, knock yourself out. :notam:

[bordsmnj]

"Actually it was a valid point about the unemployment situation should be helped by the hurricane should they decide to rebuild. Florida's economy has been boosted by the reconstruction efforts from several hurricanes. Basically you have a lot of federal and insurance money pouring into the area for reconstruction and that will fuel other business as well. I was reading somewhere where they were already hiring a lot of the unemployed people in Mississippi for the clean up efforts there."
Good. See? i wasn't being that harsh. thanks

[572Daytona]

FEMA knew the storm was going to be devastating 6 days before it hit. So in total they had ELEVEN DAYS to prepare. You'd think they could round up a couple helicopters and some water? I am talking about Mississippi and Alabama so I don't want to hear that "they were shooting at me" crybaby spin.
More liberal spin, no one knew how bad it would be or where it would hit until it actually did. There have been plenty of cat 5 hurricanes 6 days from our shores that never materialized into anything. Liberals are nothing but monday morning quarterbacks always complaining about stuff in hindsight. How come you weren't out posting messages 6 days before about how woefully unprepared we were for the impending storm?

[Poster X]

So your stance is that the government should have the entire recovery effort in place before they start? (no matter how long that takes?)

[Schiada76]

So your stance is that the government should have the entire recovery effort in place before they start? (no matter how long that takes?)
No that's YOUR stance.
Gawd Damn! You are one STUPID fck!
You're actually arguing with yourself. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :messedup:

[Run_em_Hard]

I'll be honest with you, I would have stayed too.
Why stay. Free food, cloths, shelter. That they don't have to steal. 80 degrees out. No traffic. Beautiful lakes and mountains. That beats a crowded stadium where people are sh!tt!n wherever they please.

[Boatcop]

i wonder how much labor they are going to have to IMPORT to rebuild that place? will their local unemployment rate change
Probably have to import all the labor to rebuild.
Many of the folks down there are on SSI and too "disabled" to pick up a hammer.
Although they don't seem to have too much of a problem carrying a 32" TV.

[Poster X]

No that's YOUR stance.
Gawd Damn! You are one STUPID fck!
You're actually arguing with yourself. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :messedup:
My stance is they should have started the recovery operation the instant they got ONE helicopter running.

[mirvin]

Does anybody know for a FACT when exactly the Gov of Louisiana requested a "state of emergency"????

[probablecause]

There is a reason there is 30% unemployment and a murder rate 10 times the national average and all the fingerpointing to the Federal Government aint it.

[Jordy]

Does anybody know for a FACT when exactly the Gov of Louisiana requested a "state of emergency"????
Has she even declared it yet??? I know the other governors declared it BEFORE the hurricane even hit so they would have the wheels in motion. :idea:

[mirvin]

Has she even declared it yet??? I know the other governors declared it BEFORE the hurricane even hit so they would have the wheels in motion. :idea:
It seems like SHE dropped the ball. Nobody wants to admit it but the Fed can't just send troops in on their own accord. We have laws prohibiting it....you know.,.."Big Brother" and all that bs.
It's funny how the libs don't want to give the Fed the ability to tap a terrorists phone but they'll yell and scream when big evil W don't send the green suits in ASAP!!!

[Forkin' Crazy]

Probably have to import all the labor to rebuild.
Many of the folks down there are on SSI and too "disabled" to pick up a hammer.
Although they don't seem to have too much of a problem carrying a 32" TV.
You are absolutely correct. They are everywhere in the south, not just in N.O.

[boxscore]

The state couldnt use the National Guard, most of them that were trained for that type of disaster were shipped to Iraq by Bush.
I'm pretty sure that's patently false. There's plenty of Nat'l Gaurd available for duty.

[mirvin]

You would wish death and destruction on some one just because they made an callous, idiotic remark?
I am not condeming you!!! :lightsabe
That's the classic response when you have the gall to suggest people should be responsibel for THEMSELVES:notam:

[mirvin]

You are absolutely correct. They are everywhere in the south, not just in N.O.
And remember right after the elections......there was a "report" going around on how the BLUE states paid all the taxes and the "RED" states housed the majority of welfare recipiants??
THat always pissed me off becuase it the Dems handing all the welfare out......

[bordsmnj]

My stance is they should have started the recovery operation the instant they got ONE helicopter running.
an operation would be inmotion already to get the helicopter running thats what liberals choose not to see;logistics.

[Run_em_Hard]

I think your sarcasm sensor needs to be replaced.
I know your just kiddin with me, but I just have a hard time when people claim to be in that much pain and trouble than they refuse free help. It just dosen't make any sence to me.

[Forkin' Crazy]

an operation would be inmotion already to get the helicopter running thats what liberals choose not to see;logistics.
I said that to him, along with trying to explain the magnatude of this disaster, but he continues to moan and complain... keeping his liberal status up to par...
Don't confuse me with the facts, I've already made my mind up!!

[Jordy]

Like I said earlier: Facts=Liberal Kryptonite.
Show up with facts and they disappear in a hurry. ;)

[Poster X]

What's the average age around here? Thirteen? You guys are spouting off rhetoric like you know what you're talking about. Sadly, none of you have a clue what programs for welfare exist due to Republican or Democratic influence. None of you have a clue why it took longer to start aid in the gulf than to launch an attack against Iraq when they invaded Kuwait. You're just children, playing with grown up politics. This whole voting when you turn 18 thing has got to go. You are all educated yet you can't spell or formulate sentences well. You all spit out out the latest sound byte from FOX but you are not able to comprehend the story or research it's basis. You don't want to comprehend. You don't want to think. You don't even want to make a decision. You want your government to do it for you. You will probably get what you deserve in the long run. Lost freedom. Bankrupt country. Nuclear landscape. Famine and probably pestilence? Just tell God when you show up for judgement... BILL CLINTON GOT A BLOWJOB.

[CA Stu]

Why do you hate paragraphs?

[Poster X]

And by the way... facts are proof. Not innuendo and hearsay. You wouldn't know a fact if it bit your nose off. toodles :wink:

[Forkin' Crazy]

God, this is like arguing with a child!!!
you did it, no you did it, no you did it, no you did it!!! :hammerhea

[stvneil]

:confused: well today mayor nagin called for mandatory evacuation, by force if necessary. the n.o. police are complying. but, the gov. has not declared mandatory evacuation, so the military and everybody else are not allowed to make them evacuate because they are under the governors jurisdiction. she will not turn over her authority to the federal govt. so that they will be taking orders from one chief. what a cluster****. the people south of n.o. , still flooded has not gotten assistance yet. high class elected officials. :hammer2:

[Jordy]

You wouldn't know a fact if it bit your nose off.
Is that why you hide behind the bag??? :( :notam:
toodles :wink:
Toodles? And you accuse us of being 13??? What are you, this many??? {holding up 5 fingers} :D

[mirvin]

What's the average age around here? Thirteen? You guys are spouting off rhetoric like you know what you're talking about. Sadly, none of you have a clue what programs for welfare exist due to Republican or Democratic influence. None of you have a clue why it took longer to start aid in the gulf than to launch an attack against Iraq when they invaded Kuwait. You're just children, playing with grown up politics. This whole voting when you turn 18 thing has got to go. You are all educated yet you can't spell or formulate sentences well. You all spit out out the latest sound byte from FOX but you are not able to comprehend the story or research it's basis. You don't want to comprehend. You don't want to think. You don't even want to make a decision. You want your government to do it for you. You will probably get what you deserve in the long run. Lost freedom. Bankrupt country. Nuclear landscape. Famine and probably pestilence? Just tell God when you show up for judgement... BILL CLINTON GOT A BLOWJOB.
Dang. I just feel awful about myself. Maybe I'll go and PRETEND TO CARE ABOUT POOR HELPLESS PEOPLE SO I CAN FURTHER MY POLITICAL AGENDA.
:eek:

[Forkin' Crazy]

Hi Neil, how it goes down there?
Blank O is her new given name. :crossx:
Soon to be former Govenor of Louisiana. :mad:

[CornWater]

What's the average age around here? Thirteen? You guys are spouting off rhetoric like you know what you're talking about. Sadly, none of you have a clue what programs for welfare exist due to Republican or Democratic influence. None of you have a clue why it took longer to start aid in the gulf than to launch an attack against Iraq when they invaded Kuwait. You're just children, playing with grown up politics. This whole voting when you turn 18 thing has got to go. You are all educated yet you can't spell or formulate sentences well. You all spit out out the latest sound byte from FOX but you are not able to comprehend the story or research it's basis. You don't want to comprehend. You don't want to think. You don't even want to make a decision. You want your government to do it for you. You will probably get what you deserve in the long run. Lost freedom. Bankrupt country. Nuclear landscape. Famine and probably pestilence? Just tell God when you show up for judgement... BILL CLINTON GOT A BLOWJOB.
You are definately an overly optimistic period placer. :D

[Creator]

And by the way... toodles :wink:
Best thing you've said yet!!!
Anyone else notice this POS has never posted anything about boats, or tried to help any boaters on this board with anything. He showed up and has only posted about political topics and has never had anything profound to say.
If you only want to talk about Bush (pres.) and spew political rhetoric, go to a forum that cares solely about politics... We talk about everything not just politics. Really, no-one here cares what you think you know.
I have read some posts by you, Poster X, that bags on these members for talking about their watches, cars, rims and boats. Guess what there genius...THIS IS A BOAT FORUM!!!
If you can't handle the fact that some people actually have money and spend it on themselves, you're in the wrong place. And just so we're clear, I bet nearly everyone on this forum has donated in one way or another to this tragedy. Some people can actually donate and still have fun with their money. I understand this is a hard concept for someone like you to understand but it's true.
Poster X.... CYA

[***boateditor]

You are all educated yet you can't spell or formulate sentences well. You all spit out out the latest sound byte from FOX but you are not able to comprehend the story or research (sic) it's basis.
I love it when people bitch about the spelling of others in print, because they invariably reveal themselves to be just as lousy a speller as everybody else. "Its" is possessive. "It's" is a contraction of "it is."
How does your foot taste?

[RiverDave]

I can only hope and pray a firestorm and earthquake takes away your family slowly over an agonizing four or five days while they scream and beg for help. Wonder if you'll show a modicum of compassion after that?
I can only hope and pray that one day you confuse a plastic bag with the one you currently put over your head and suffocate yourself.
RD

[Racer277]

Again I ask, what about Mississippi and Alabama? They did everything right according to Homeland Securites rules of aid yet they waited 5 days for help and even then it wasn't FEMA who showed up.
Why is 5 days such a big deal? Any healthy human should be able to survive 5 days, unless you expend all of your energy stealing TV's and sneakers...
I dont blame the Officers for leaving. They are one of the lowest paid departments in the Country. I think they make around $13 an hour. Lots of corruption in the PD also. I would quit too.
The state couldnt use the National Guard, most of them that were trained for that type of disaster were shipped to Iraq by Bush.
I think the Governor has her head in the sand, cuz she know someone is going to have it.
But, what about the other Parrish, were the Parrish president pleaded every day for someone to come and help evacuate the nursing home? No one ever showed, and the elderly all drowned. That was a screw up, a bad one.
I've never worked harder than when I made $8 per hour. I actually risked my life weekly for it. I've always assume that's why I have continually made more money, the rate I get paid has nothing to do with how hard I work.
As for the Guard trained for that type of disaster. What type of training is required to help fellow human beings? Obviously not the type the NOPD is giving.

[stvneil]

Hi Neil, how it goes down there?
Blank O is her new given name. :crossx:
Soon to be former Govenor of Louisiana. :mad:
things are great here except for 200k more people here in b.r. traffic is a nightmare. i've seen you on byu boyz and s&f. i'm a lurker and don't post too much because i lose my temper and **** up listening to all these liberals.

[Throttle]

who are we going to blame here in California when the big one shakes us out to sea... This is a reminder, arnold is not ready so you better be self sufficiant for at least a week or two. :idea:

[Poster X]

In the spirit of friendship I offer a few witticisms in the spirit of your opinions.
They found 32 abandoned senior citizens drowned to death today. I guess they missed the wrinkled bus?
They expect to find 2000-3500 dead white people that drowned awaiting rescue. Probably all white trash so let's make fun of them. I guess a bus couldn't get in their trailer park and even if they did a chain smoking, pregnant bitch would probably high jack the bus and sell it for heroin. lol..pretty funny eh? Wait...I have more.
There are 200-750 retarded children missing. I guess they missed the short bus?
They expect up to 7500 dead black people. I guess they didn't have a special bus for them? Everyone knows the black bus is 6 inches longer than a white one.
I hope they can find some dead babies? We could all do Alice Cooper jokes. Wouldn't that be a hoot?
I want to thank my spell checker. Thank's snookums. :sqeyes:

[Jordy]

Speaking of retards, I thought you left... :confused: :D

[mirvin]

who are we going to blame here in California when the big one shakes us out to sea... This is a reminder, arnold is not ready so you better be self sufficiant for at least a week or two. :idea:
Holy shiat exactly!!! I've upped my rations to 10 DAYS:eek:
Arnold....forget about Arnold. How hard is it to make a phone call to the WHite House....?
The real question is Villaragosa :eek: WHat is he prepared to do to take care of.......god knows how many people who "Don't have the means to take care of themselves" :eek:
I mean how many poor people are we talking about? I know it's alot more then they have in Nawlans........
:hammerhea

[***boateditor]

They found 32 abonded senior citizens drowned to death today.
More great spelling tips from the man who lectures people about their spelling! Does "abonded" mean that the senior citizens were all stuck together somehow?

[mirvin]

In the spirit of friendship I offer a few witticisms in the spirit of your opinions.
They found 32 abonded senior citizens drowned to death today. I guess they missed the wrinkled bus?
They expect to find 2000-3500 dead white people that drowned awaiting rescue. Probably all white trash so let's make fun of them. I guess a bus couldn't get in their trailer park and even if they did a chain smoking, pregnant bitch would probably high jack the bus and sell it for heroin. lol..pretty funny eh? Wait...I have more.
There are 200-750 retarded children missing. I guess they missed the short bus?
They expect up to 7500 dead black people. I guess they didn't have a special bus for them? Everyone knows the black bus is 6 inches longer than a white one.
I hope they can find some dead babies? We could all do Alice Cooper jokes. Wouldn't that be a hoot?
Every one of these people were the responsibility of the LOCAL GOVERNMENT - IE the Mayor. It's the Mayors fault for not getting his people out. PERIOD.
Oh yeah, in case you forgot, there was a huge natural disaster there in the form of a hurricane. WHat's your point?

[azgfboatgirl]

[QUOTE=Throttle]who are we going to blame here in California when the big one shakes us out to sea...
LMAO :D
Arizona becomes beachfront property!! SWEET ;)

[572Daytona]

I thought these were appropriate for this thread :)
http://www.cnsnews.com/cartoon/nowakimages/2005/High-Ground.jpg
http://www.cnsnews.com/cartoon/stayskalimages/2005/California.jpg

[Brooski]

... BILL CLINTON GOT A BLOWJOB.
Yes he did, that bastard! :D :D :D Bet it was a good one too!
Shit, most Presidents have done alot worse, just never got caught. The media wasn't as well informed in the past.

[Seadog]

It has always amazed me that Poster X can spew such venom and lies without being struck by lightning. But then liberals are usually self serving POS with less compassion than hatred for their fellow human beings.

[Ultrafied]

Why is this $hit here? It should have been moved to the political forum where everybody who gives a rats a$$ can read it. I would rather have some good boat news then listen to liberal/conservative BS.
Anybody elese notice how slow it was Labor Day weekend at Havi? :sqeyes:

[Brooski]

Anybody elese notice how slow it was Labor Day weekend at Havi? :sqeyes:
HIJACKER!! :wink: lol

[hurleyr]

"Anyone else notice this POS has never posted anything about boats, or tried to help any boaters on this board with anything."
GOOD POINT
Does anyone know if this d%#$head can be blocked out? This is not even an honest debate. I personnally have heard enough of his krap.

[Ultrafied]

HIJACKER!! :wink: lol
Busted! :sleeping:

[Seadog]

As opposed to you, who's all gummy bears and sunshine.
I will admit that the likes of Posser X and a few others do rile me a bit.:D

[MagicMtnDan]

What do you call an a-hole hiding his identity putting a paper bag over his head while flaming an entire board spouting his left-wing bile? Other than troll, I call him...
SHIT-BAG!
http://www2.***boat.com/forums/customavatars/avatar10061_1.gif http://www2.***boat.com/forums/customavatars/avatar10061_1.gif http://www2.***boat.com/forums/customavatars/avatar10061_1.gif
Do you think it's possible I hurt his feelings with that? I'd spend more time "debating" him but I've got something more important to do. Gotta take out the bag of trash :D

[hurleyr]

SHIT-BAG!
Well put. :)

[Poster X]

What do you call an a-hole hiding his identity putting a paper bag over his head while flaming an entire board spouting his left-wing bile? Other than troll, I call him...:D
That's rich coming from a dancing tiger, a steeler helmet, and a cowboy. :D

[Forkin' Crazy]

I hope they can find some dead babies? We could all do Alice Cooper jokes. Wouldn't that be a hoot?
You really don't want to know. Trust me on that one.
Yea, the old folks drowned.... very, very sad.
So did everyone in the first floor of the Charity Hospital. But you know what else was there? All, and I mean all of the medical records for every patient in the state. And it is all gone putting more of a burden on our already stressed medical/hospital system.

[Forkin' Crazy]

Why is this $hit here? It should have been moved to the political forum where everybody who gives a rats a$$ can read it. I would rather have some good boat news then listen to liberal/conservative BS.
Anybody elese notice how slow it was Labor Day weekend at Havi? :sqeyes:
What the hell do you care? If it bothers you that much, then don't read it!!!!! :220v:

[Rexone]

FEMA knew the storm was going to be devastating 6 days before it hit. So in total they had ELEVEN DAYS to prepare. You'd think they could round up a couple helicopters and some water? I am talking about Mississippi and Alabama so I don't want to hear that "they were shooting at me" crybaby spin.
Exactly the same amount of time the locals in charge of the bus parking lot in post 1 had (and the same information). Problem is they buses remained parked and the locals and the state are the first line of defense. Only when the state requests are the feds called in (hmmm wonder why whatever delay that occurred occurred).
So the implication that FEMA had knowledge of the storm that the locals and state did not have or some advantage in storm prediction is just spin, not reality.
The bottom line is no one was really prepared locally or at the state level for the category 4-5 storm. The levees were only designed for cat 3, hmmm, that right there should be a big red flag for the local gov 5-6 days before an impending killer cat 5 storm.
Now many are trying to place blame where blame isn't due. Hindsight is always 100%, but that's life. Some live to place blame on others for things that happen, some just take responsibility and accept the reality that a perfect world is not something that comes as an entitlement of US citizenship or birth.

[HM]

Why is this $hit here? It should have been moved to the political forum where everybody who gives a rats a$$ can read it. I would rather have some good boat news then listen to liberal/conservative BS.
Anybody elese notice how slow it was Labor Day weekend at Havi? :sqeyes:
Perhaps someone can start the 2000th thread on the price of gas or we can watch Kilrtoy and HighRoller throw windmill punches at each other on the playground.....the choice is yours. :) :)

[Poster X]

Hey rexone. You are still defending New Orleans and we are talking about Mississippi and Alabama who did follow the rules of government intervention. They had no levee either. :wink:

[Kilrtoy]

Perhaps someone can start the 2000th thread on the price of gas or we can watch Kilrtoy and HighRoller throw windmill punches at each other on the playground.....the choice is yours. :) :)
Please he got knocked the FOCK out already, But he deletes the thread before anyone can see them....
That must be one hell of a windmill punch I have...
:coffeycup

[Rexone]

Hey rexone. You are still defending New Orleans and we are talking about Mississippi and Alabama who did follow the rules of government intervention. They had no levee either. :wink:
I'm not "defending" anyone or any particular place.
The thread topic was about a bus lot in New Orleans, not MS or AL.
And I'm sure MS and AL have some buses parked somewhere as well and had the same storm info as everyone else "in advance".
The bottom line is that a lot of people at a lot of levels made poor decisions (again that 100% hindsight thing). Trying to blame the feds for the results of a disaster that the locals and state should have first responsibility for is just spin regardless of the state.

[ROZ]

That's a lot of words not to say anything. Again I ask, what about Mississippi and Alabama? They did everything right according to Homeland Securites rules of aid yet they waited 5 days for help and even then it wasn't FEMA who showed up. You talk about facts. Show me some. I have an open mind.
This thread's first post was about New Orleans and not Mississippi and Alabama.
I think a lot of the public is wondering why ANY agency in the named sates didn't respond after the ability to move in once the window had opened, but I'd appreciate it if you'd stick to the topic in the first thread for just a moment...
What do you think about these busses in a lake of water instead of seeing them in the parking lot of the dome in Houston?

[Rexone]

What do you think about these busses in a lake of water instead of seeing them in the parking lot of the dome in Houston?
But what about MS and AL? :hammerhea :hammerhea :)

[ROZ]

But what about MS and AL? :hammerhea :hammerhea :)
AS a famouns man once posted, "They don't have busses in Ms. and Al. ?" :D

[Poster X]

Thanks for the soundtrack mods. ;)
Anyone that thinks they can answer the question about the buses still in New Orleans is even more full of shit than I am. How many stories has the media retracted so far? I've lost count. They are even going on air with such gems as "Saddam Signs Confession" and then retracting that. It will be Days, Weeks, maybe Months before any of us will know the truth. I know many of you think you are the Amazing Kreskin or Miss Cleo but, until I see your credentials from Bullshit U, I am going to assume you are nothing but the product of partisan rants.
Mississippi and Alabama are valid points because you are using New Orleans as the basis of defending your government when in fact, both of those States followed protocol, and still did not receive federal aid in a timely manner.
What is the point of federal government if not to look out for us? Wouldn't we be able to dispense with federal government if we removed that equation?

[Vada]

Ah shut up!

[haulina29]

5 days aint bad considering it takes me 4 months to get a residential building permit. :D

[Wet Dream]

What happened to the person that originally started this thread? :hammerhea
Anyhow, who do you expect to drive those busses? Would you like to see the untrained, unlicensed standard mom of 5 driving a 30,000 pound bus loaded with 60 people? How about the local crackhead? Do you honestly think that the $5.65/hour bus driver is going to show up to work to drive a bunch of people to God knows where, or stay home and protect and take care of their own family and get out on their own?
Survival of the fittest! Circle of life. Process of elimination. Food chain. Take your pick. Humanity usually comes out after the disaster, take care of what you can prior and during the crisis. Neighbors do help neighbors getting things ready, boarding windows, etc. They had plenty of warning, those that chose to help themselves did.

[Jyruiz]

those that chose to help themselves did.
And those who didn't, want to blame somebody else. Nobody takes responsibility, it is a lot easier to put the blame on others.

[28Prowler525]

I can only hope and pray a firestorm and earthquake takes away your family slowly over an agonizing four or five days while they scream and beg for help. Wonder if you'll show a modicum of compassion after that?
That right there is ****ED UP!

[Poster X]

They had plenty of warning, those that chose to help themselves did.
I'll pass that on to the thousands of potentially dead kids and hundreds (maybe thousands?) of dead senior citizens. What's your theory on the pets? Those that could drive a car did?

[Wet Dream]

I'll pass that on to the thousands of potentially dead kids and hundreds (maybe thousands?) of dead senior citizens. What's your theory on the pets? Those that could drive a car did?
Once again, they had plenty of warning to get out. You are stating that there are potentially thousands of dead people, but in reality those numbers could be true.
The dead kids. The parents should have done a better job of parenting and taught them how to swim, or do what they should have done and protected the kids and taken them to safety by any means possible. Maybe those that are still alive can teach the kids how to heep WARNINGS. Granted, some people are crippled or otherwise unable to do anything...survival of the fittest.
The pets. Who cares? Fido can swim, Morris can climb just about anything, and Polly can fly unless the owners thought that clipping the wings was a good idea. How ironic. Snakes, rats, etc, they could care less about the owner, they just want food.
The elderly. Someone should be taking care of them. If they are in a nursing/ assisted living home, then it is the homes responsibility to get them out or to safety. If they are at home, even alone, someone in the family should have the heart to check in on their loved ones. Someone dropped the ball there.

[Seadog]

Posser X keeps asking about Mississippi and Alabama. Most of them that remained, chose to stick it out, thinking that this would not be that bad of a storm. It is not possible to force everyone to evacuate, logistically and legally. Those that chose to remain in New Orleans are not the issue. It is that they had the means and time to evacuate anyone who wanted evacuation. And I doubt that they had any problems getting drivers. The city is full of license comercial drivers. Like many of the events in history, this will never be resolved because there are too many partisan issues to be exploited. It will be another grassy knoll.

[mirvin]

Thanks for the soundtrack mods. ;)
Anyone that thinks they can answer the question about the buses still in New Orleans is even more full of shit than I am. How many stories has the media retracted so far? I've lost count. They are even going on air with such gems as "Saddam Signs Confession" and then retracting that. It will be Days, Weeks, maybe Months before any of us will know the truth. I know many of you think you are the Amazing Kreskin or Miss Cleo but, until I see your credentials from Bullshit U, I am going to assume you are nothing but the product of partisan rants.
Mississippi and Alabama are valid points because you are using New Orleans as the basis of defending your government when in fact, both of those States followed protocol, and still did not receive federal aid in a timely manner.
What is the point of federal government if not to look out for us? Wouldn't we be able to dispense with federal government if we removed that equation?
Again PosterX, you've been blinded by your rage.
Have you read the "EVacuation Plan" that was in place for New ORleans? It states clearly that the Mayor was to organize and utilize public transportation to evacuate the people that THEY KNEW would be unable and uwilling to leave. That's what the picture at the top of this thread is about.
Not the Feds fault or problem.
Also, I just read on the Red Cross website that it was the Louisiana Homeland Security Dept that requested there be no deliveries to the Superdome because they "Did not want to create a magnet".........:messedup:

[Poster X]

George Bush admits the federal response was inadequate.
Tom DeLay admits the federal response was inadequate.
Susan Collins admits the federal response was inadequate.
Michael Brown admits the federal response was inadequate.
Michael Chertoff admits the federal response was inadequate.
You guys on a morphine drip?

[Wet Dream]

;)

[FreshTracks]

What happened to the person that originally started this thread? :hammerhea
Anyhow, who do you expect to drive those busses? Would you like to see the untrained, unlicensed standard mom of 5 driving a 30,000 pound bus loaded with 60 people? How about the local crackhead? Do you honestly think that the $5.65/hour bus driver is going to show up to work to drive a bunch of people to God knows where, or stay home and protect and take care of their own family and get out on their own?
Survival of the fittest! Circle of life. Process of elimination. Food chain. Take your pick. Humanity usually comes out after the disaster, take care of what you can prior and during the crisis. Neighbors do help neighbors getting things ready, boarding windows, etc. They had plenty of warning, those that chose to help themselves did.
I'm still here, been enjoying the responses of all. With regards to your question of who should drive the buses, that should have been arranged by the same people who should have had thoses buses on the road. It is called the local govt. That was the point I was trying to make with the initial post. As others who have replied have stated, there is plenty of people to blame and in due time we will hopefully learn from these mistakes and resolve them in the future. I hope we will, because it is only a matter of time before the $hit hits the fan here and we will be needing the help!
With that said, I hope everyone who has been giving their opinion and .02 about this puts the same effort and energy to helping your fellow Americans and human beings. Like they say, WHAT GOES AROUND, COMES AROUND.
Next time you're at your local lake,river, etc. make sure you appreciate the fact that you have the opportunity to enjoy it, because you or it may not be there one day! I know I will!

[Wet Dream]

Thats your ****ing response?!?!?!? Who cares what they admit?

[Poster X]

Ummm..ok. :eek:

[desertbird]

What Really Happened in the Wake of Hurricane Katrina?
Wednesday, September 07, 2005
By Bill O'Reilly
What really happened in the wake of Hurricane Katrina? That is the subject of this evening's "Talking Points Memo".
With so much misinformation and spin about Katrina, we decided to do a methodical investigation into exactly what happened after the hurricane ripped through New Orleans. And here's what we found out.
We begin with the Louisiana Hurricane Evacuation Plan, which is what the mayor and the governor were supposed to follow. One key provision in that plan states, "The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles may be used to provide transportation for individuals who require assistance in evacuating."
But those government vehicles were not used on a large scale to get people out of town. Instead, Governor Kathleen Blanco and Mayor Ray Nagin decided to allow New Orleans residents to stay if they wanted, even though a mandatory evacuation order had been issued by the mayor about 14 hours before the storm hit.
Nagin did authorize transportation to get folks to the Superdome, which was designated a refuge of last resort. However, most city buses stood idle and on low ground and were quickly flooded by Katrina.
Even though the mayor opened the Superdome to thousands, there was not nearly enough security inside, nor enough food and water. Mayor Nagin still has not explained why a mandatory evacuation is not mandatory. What say you, Mayor Nagin?
Now Governor Blanco also made major mistakes. After asking and getting the federal government to declare the hurricane zone a disaster area two days before the storm hit, the governor failed to send any National Guard troops in to secure New Orleans and the surrounding parishes before the storm. Why?
She also failed to ask for more troops from the feds, knowing she only had about 6,000 to control the city of 1.3 million. Why not ask for more?
Like the mayor, Governor Blanco has no explanation. Surely she knew the potential for chaos. Why not send the Guard in immediately?
Then when the levees were breached, the Guard found itself unable to get into New Orleans. They're outside. It was not until Wednesday, August 31st, three days after the storm hit, that Blanco admitted she didn't have enough security in the city.
Once the levees were breached, the situation then became a national security issue. And the feds, already having the power to act, should have arrived in force. But the homeland security office and President Bush were 24 hours late in taking decisive action.
So summing up, the mayor allowed citizens to defy a mandatory evacuation and didn't use city buses to get them out of town. The governor didn't send the Guard in before the storm. And that caused the New Orleans police to be quickly overwhelmed. The evacuation plan clearly states that a refuge of last resort may not have food and water available, but I wonder how many people knew that.
Also, how did the mayor and governor think any kind of structure could be maintained without crowd control?
Again, we believe Blanco and Nagin should be forced to answer those questions. And that's “The Memo.”

[572Daytona]

George Bush admits the federal response was inadequate.
Tom DeLay admits the federal response was inadequate.
Susan Collins admits the federal response was inadequate.
Michael Brown admits the federal response was inadequate.
Michael Chertoff admits the federal response was inadequate.
You guys on a morphine drip?
Yep, they are true leaders. They've sacked up and accepted responsibility that they could have done a better job. What's pathetic is all of the whiney democrats that are not leaders and are just trying to place blame without owning up to any responsibility of their own. And even worse are trying to capitlize on people dying to further their own polical agenda. Everyone could have done a better job, local, state, federal. Even the media got this all wrong in the beginnig saying NO had gotten lucky and suffered little damage compare to Miss.

[Wet Dream]

With regards to your question of who should drive the buses, that should have been arranged by the same people who should have had thoses buses on the road. It is called the local govt.
For those bus drivers, is it contractual to report to work in a crisis? Are they ordered to leave their family, their homes to drive a SCHOOL BUS? They are not officers, like the many who left their post, nor fire fighters who thrive on stuff like that. They are SCHOOL BUS drivers. The thrill of their day consists of flipping a switch and making red lights flash to stop traffic. You can't tell me that the local government can order drivers to report to work (many of them union members) to pick up 60 people and drive them hundreds of miles away, but really they don't know where to go. Total bullshit. They are going to stay home and take care of theirs. Many of those bus drivers are probably those that are now floating down the street because they thought they could survive the storm. You also have to think that the company that owns those busses (not always owned by state, school districts or any gov't affiliation) made it clear that the busses do not leave the yard, insurance plays a huge role in that. I'm sure a few of those bus drivers dodn't have their own transportation and would have loved to taken one to get their family and friends out.

[mirvin]

Ummm..ok. :eek:
I don't get it. You want to blame people for this but not the people who created the problems?? THe federal response is SECONDARY. They come later. They aint sitting there waiting.
Nobody is saying the Feds were stellar.....I mean it is the Federal Goverenment we're talking about, right :redface:
The Mayor of NO should be drug through the streets. Then the Governor of LA. If you still want blood then go ahead and take the jackass at Fema. But that's it. THere's no way to legitimately blame the Government for this.

[mirvin]

Has Federal Government and stellar performance ever been used together in a sentence? :D
That's my point!!!! WHo in their right minds would rely on the Federal Government???
The local Government failed their people. PERIOD.

[Poster X]

I have no problem blaming the governor. As far as the mayor I think it's too early yet to pass judgement? None of us really know if he had buses available or not? I presume not? If so, he'll be hung out to dry. The gov is heavy on my mind because they are our primary defense. I'd prefer them to be quick, organized and on the same page in a crisis. I'm just funny that way.

[Vada]

screw the governer
and
ah shut up

[mirvin]

I have no problem blaming the governor. As far as the mayor I think it's too early yet to pass judgement? None of us really know if he had buses available or not? I presume not? If so, he'll be hung out to dry. The gov is heavy on my mind because they are our primary defense. I'd prefer them to be quick, organized and on the same page in a crisis. I'm just funny that way.
Have you read the EVACUATION PLAN that the MAYOR had in his hand on SATURDAY when he stated on television that they were ready to activate the plan that called for using public transortation to evacuate???
It's too early to blame the feet on the ground but not too early to blame the government over the fact that it takes 36 to 72 hours to deploy the Nat Guard???

[FreshTracks]

For those bus drivers, is it contractual to report to work in a crisis? Are they ordered to leave their family, their homes to drive a SCHOOL BUS? They are not officers, like the many who left their post, nor fire fighters who thrive on stuff like that. They are SCHOOL BUS drivers. The thrill of their day consists of flipping a switch and making red lights flash to stop traffic. You can't tell me that the local government can order drivers to report to work (many of them union members) to pick up 60 people and drive them hundreds of miles away, but really they don't know where to go. Total bullshit. They are going to stay home and take care of theirs. Many of those bus drivers are probably those that are now floating down the street because they thought they could survive the storm. You also have to think that the company that owns those busses (not always owned by state, school districts or any gov't affiliation) made it clear that the busses do not leave the yard, insurance plays a huge role in that. I'm sure a few of those bus drivers dodn't have their own transportation and would have loved to taken one to get their family and friends out.
You make a good point, and I do agree with you to a certain extent, however that also supports the initial statement I made. Let's just say the local govt. made an attempt to round up the drivers and they all say "hell no", well shouldn't they find alternate drivers? There was an opportunity for them to ask for the Fed's help BEFORE the situation escaladed to what it is now and they did not do it.
By the way, what do you think their insurance company thinks after seeing that picture? :jawdrop:

[Wet Dream]

By the way, what do you think their insurance company thinks after seeing that picture? :jawdrop:
Those busses are alot cheaper and easier to replace than lives.

[gnarley]

Did you lobby the Federal government for billions of dollars to upgrade the levees (before the storm hit)?
I hate to say this but the blame may fall on the federal government. There were funds lobbied for and approved for levee repairs and upgrades that were approved by the feds about 10 years ago. The funds NEVER made it to Louisiana and were deemed not necessary AFTER they were approved, who knows what pork project they went to but if they were spent where they should have been it isn’t likely the levees would have been breached. I heard the story on a talk radio show yesterday, I don’t know which one but I’m sure if anyone wants to do the research they’ll find out the Levee’s could have been prepared for this if the funds had gotten to where they had been approved to go.
So if this is true, which it sure seems it could be who’s to blame?

[Poster X]

I heard the same report. I believe the funds earmarked for the levees were rerouted to the war effort.
What a shock.

[Creator]

If this happend 10 years ago then we have wonderful Bill Clinton to blame. This problem existed during his term also but I guess that's probably G.W.'s fault too.

[572Daytona]

I heard the same report. I believe the funds earmarked for the levees were rerouted to the war effort.
Not true, just more liberal spin, corps in Louisiana has been well funded
Money Flowed to Questionable Projects
State Leads in Army Corps Spending, but Millions Had Nothing to Do With Floods
By Michael Grunwald
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, September 8, 2005; A01
Before Hurricane Katrina breached a levee on the New Orleans Industrial Canal, the Army Corps of Engineers had already launched a $748 million construction project at that very location. But the project had nothing to do with flood control. The Corps was building a huge new lock for the canal, an effort to accommodate steadily increasing barge traffic.
Except that barge traffic on the canal has been steadily decreasing.
In Katrina's wake, Louisiana politicians and other critics have complained about paltry funding for the Army Corps in general and Louisiana projects in particular. But over the five years of President Bush's administration, Louisiana has received far more money for Corps civil works projects than any other state, about $1.9 billion; California was a distant second with less than $1.4 billion, even though its population is more than seven times as large.
Much of that Louisiana money was spent to try to keep low-lying New Orleans dry. But hundreds of millions of dollars have gone to unrelated water projects demanded by the state's congressional delegation and approved by the Corps, often after economic analyses that turned out to be inaccurate. Despite a series of independent investigations criticizing Army Corps construction projects as wasteful pork-barrel spending, Louisiana's representatives have kept bringing home the bacon.
For example, after a $194 million deepening project for the Port of Iberia flunked a Corps cost-benefit analysis, Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-La.) tucked language into an emergency Iraq spending bill ordering the agency to redo its calculations. The Corps also spends tens of millions of dollars a year dredging little-used waterways such as the Mississippi River Gulf Outlet, the Atchafalaya River and the Red River -- now known as the J. Bennett Johnston Waterway, in honor of the project's congressional godfather -- for barge traffic that is less than forecast.
The Industrial Canal lock is one of the agency's most controversial projects, sued by residents of a New Orleans low-income black neighborhood and cited by an alliance of environmentalists and taxpayer advocates as the fifth-worst current Corps boondoggle. In 1998, the Corps justified its plan to build a new lock -- rather than fix the old lock for a tiny fraction of the cost -- by predicting huge increases in use by barges traveling between the Port of New Orleans and the Mississippi River.
In fact, barge traffic on the canal had been plummeting since 1994, but the Corps left that data out of its study. And barges have continued to avoid the canal since the study was finished, even though they are visiting the port in increased numbers.
Pam Dashiell, president of the Holy Cross Neighborhood Association, remembers holding a protest against the lock four years ago -- right where the levee broke Aug. 30. Now she's holed up with her family in a St. Louis hotel, and her neighborhood is underwater. "Our politicians never cared half as much about protecting us as they cared about pork," Dashiell said.
Yesterday, congressional defenders of the Corps said they hoped the fallout from Hurricane Katrina would pave the way for billions of dollars of additional spending on water projects. Steve Ellis, a Corps critic with Taxpayers for Common Sense, called their push "the legislative equivalent of looting."
Louisiana's politicians have requested much more money for New Orleans hurricane protection than the Bush administration has proposed or Congress has provided. In the last budget bill, Louisiana's delegation requested $27.1 million for shoring up levees around Lake Pontchartrain, the full amount the Corps had declared as its "project capability." Bush suggested $3.9 million, and Congress agreed to spend $5.7 million.
Administration officials also dramatically scaled back a long-term project to restore Louisiana's disappearing coastal marshes, which once provided a measure of natural hurricane protection for New Orleans. They ordered the Corps to stop work on a $14 billion plan, and devise a $2 billion plan instead.
But overall, the Bush administration's funding requests for the key New Orleans flood-control projects for the past five years were slightly higher than the Clinton administration's for its past five years. Lt. Gen. Carl Strock, the chief of the Corps, has said that in any event, more money would not have prevented the drowning of the city, since its levees were designed to protect against a Category 3 storm, and the levees that failed were already completed projects. Strock has also said that the marsh-restoration project would not have done much to diminish Katrina's storm surge, which passed east of the coastal wetlands.
"The project manager for the Great Pyramids probably put in a request for 100 million shekels and only got 50 million," said John Paul Woodley Jr., the Bush administration official overseeing the Corps. "Flood protection is always a work in progress; on any given day, if you ask whether any community has all the protection it needs, the answer is almost always: Maybe, but maybe not."
The Corps had been studying the possibility of upgrading the New Orleans levees for a higher level of protection before Katrina hit, but Woodley said that study would not have been finished for years. Still, liberal bloggers, Democratic politicians and some GOP defenders of the Corps have linked the catastrophe to the underfunding of the agency.
"We've been hollering about funding for years, but everyone would say: There goes Louisiana again, asking for more money," said former Democratic senator John Breaux. "We've had some powerful people in powerful places, but we never got what we needed."
That may be true. But those powerful people -- including former senators Breaux, Johnston and Russell Long, as well as former House committee chairmen Robert Livingston and W.J. "Billy" Tauzin -- did get quite a bit of what they wanted. And the current delegation -- led by Landrieu and GOP Sen. David Vitter -- has continued that tradition.
The Senate's latest budget bill for the Corps included 107 Louisiana projects worth $596 million, including $15 million for the Industrial Canal lock, for which the Bush administration had proposed no funding. Landrieu said the bill would "accelerate our flood control, navigation and coastal protection programs." Vitter said he was "grateful that my colleagues on the Appropriations Committee were persuaded of the importance of these projects."
Louisiana not only leads the nation in overall Corps funding, it places second in new construction -- just behind Florida, home of an $8 billion project to restore the Everglades. Several controversial projects were improvements for the Port of New Orleans, an economic linchpin at the mouth of the Mississippi. There were also several efforts to deepen channel for oil and gas tankers, a priority for petroleum companies that drill in the Gulf of Mexico.
"We thought all the projects were important -- not just levees," Breaux said. "Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but navigation projects were critical to our economic survival."
Overall, Army Corps funding has remained relatively constant for decades, despite the "Program Growth Initiative" launched by agency generals in 1999 without telling their civilian bosses in the Clinton administration. The Bush administration has proposed cuts in the Corps budget, and has tried to shift the agency's emphasis from new construction to overdue maintenance. But most of those proposals have died quietly on Capitol Hill, and the administration has not fought too hard to revive them.
In fact, more than any other federal agency, the Corps is controlled by Congress; its $4.7 billion civil works budget consists almost entirely of "earmarks" inserted by individual legislators. The Corps must determine that the economic benefits of its projects exceed the costs, but marginal projects such as the Port of Iberia deepening -- which squeaked by with a 1.03 benefit-cost ratio -- are as eligible for funding as the New Orleans levees.
"It has been explicit national policy not to set priorities, but instead to build any flood control or barge project if the Corps decides the benefits exceed the costs by 1 cent," said Tim Searchinger, a senior attorney at Environmental Defense. "Saving New Orleans gets no more emphasis than draining wetlands to grow corn and soybeans."

[gnarley]

Did New Orleans Catastrophe Have to Happen? 'Times-Picayune' Had Repeatedly Raised Federal Spending Issues
By Will Bunch
Published: August 31, 2005 9:00 PM ET
PHILADELPHIA Even though Hurricane Katrina has moved well north of the city, the waters may still keep rising in New Orleans. That's because Lake Pontchartrain continues to pour through a two-block-long break in the main levee, near the city's 17th Street Canal. With much of the Crescent City some 10 feet below sea level, the rising tide may not stop until it's level with the massive lake.
New Orleans had long known it was highly vulnerable to flooding and a direct hit from a hurricane. In fact, the federal government has been working with state and local officials in the region since the late 1960s on major hurricane and flood relief efforts. When flooding from a massive rainstorm in May 1995 killed six people, Congress authorized the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, or SELA.
Over the next 10 years, the Army Corps of Engineers, tasked with carrying out SELA, spent $430 million on shoring up levees and building pumping stations, with $50 million in local aid. But at least $250 million in crucial projects remained, even as hurricane activity in the Atlantic Basin increased dramatically and the levees surrounding New Orleans continued to subside
Yet after 2003, the flow of federal dollars toward SELA dropped to a trickle. The Corps never tried to hide the fact that the spending pressures of the war in Iraq, as well as homeland security -- coming at the same time as federal tax cuts -- was the reason for the strain. At least nine articles in the Times-Picayune from 2004 and 2005 specifically cite the cost of Iraq as a reason for the lack of hurricane- and flood-control dollars.
Newhouse News Service, in an article posted late Tuesday night at The Times-Picayune Web site, reported: "No one can say they didn't see it coming. ... Now in the wake of one of the worst storms ever, serious questions are being asked about the lack of preparation."
In early 2004, as the cost of the conflict in Iraq soared, President Bush proposed spending less than 20 percent of what the Corps said was needed for Lake Pontchartrain, according to a Feb. 16, 2004, article, in New Orleans CityBusiness.
On June 8, 2004, Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, Louisiana; told the Times-Picayune: "It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can't be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us."
Also that June, with the 2004 hurricane season starting, the Corps' project manager Al Naomi went before a local agency, the East Jefferson Levee Authority, and essentially begged for $2 million for urgent work that Washington was now unable to pay for. From the June 18, 2004 Times-Picayune:
"The system is in great shape, but the levees are sinking. Everything is sinking, and if we don't get the money fast enough to raise them, then we can't stay ahead of the settlement," he said. "The problem that we have isn't that the levee is low, but that the federal funds have dried up so that we can't raise them."
The panel authorized that money, and on July 1, 2004, it had to pony up another $250,000 when it learned that stretches of the levee in Metairie had sunk by four feet. The agency had to pay for the work with higher property taxes. The levee board noted in October 2004 that the feds were also now not paying for a hoped-for $15 million project to better shore up the banks of Lake Pontchartrain.
The 2004 hurricane season was the worst in decades. In spite of that, the federal government came back this spring with the steepest reduction in hurricane and flood-control funding for New Orleans in history. Because of the proposed cuts, the Corps office there imposed a hiring freeze. Officials said that money targeted for the SELA project -- $10.4 million, down from $36.5 million -- was not enough to start any new jobs.
There was, at the same time, a growing recognition that more research was needed to see what New Orleans must do to protect itself from a Category 4 or 5 hurricane. But once again, the money was not there. As the Times-Picayune reported last Sept. 22:
"That second study would take about four years to complete and would cost about $4 million, said Army Corps of Engineers project manager Al Naomi. About $300,000 in federal money was proposed for the 2005 fiscal-year budget, and the state had agreed to match that amount. But the cost of the Iraq war forced the Bush administration to order the New Orleans district office not to begin any new studies, and the 2005 budget no longer includes the needed money, he said."
The Senate was seeking to restore some of the SELA funding cuts for 2006. But now it's too late.
One project that a contractor had been racing to finish this summer: a bridge and levee job right at the 17th Street Canal, site of the main breach on Monday.
The Newhouse News Service article published Tuesday night observed, "The Louisiana congressional delegation urged Congress earlier this year to dedicate a stream of federal money to Louisiana's coast, only to be opposed by the White House. ... In its budget, the Bush administration proposed a significant reduction in funding for southeast Louisiana's chief hurricane protection project. Bush proposed $10.4 million, a sixth of what local officials say they need."
Local officials are now saying, the article reported, that had Washington heeded their warnings about the dire need for hurricane protection, including building up levees and repairing barrier islands, "the damage might not have been nearly as bad as it turned out to be."

[Poster X]

Well, Clinton did get a blowjob. I wonder if Bush has anything to do with that? :notam:

[Mrs. Bordsmnj]

"At least nine articles in the Times-Picayune from 2004 and 2005 specifically cite the cost of Iraq as a reason for the lack of hurricane- and flood-control dollars. "
Gee, if it was in the newspaper, it must be true!
:rolleyes:

[Old Texan]

Poster X is most likely a glassy eyed little teenager with higher values than us old foolish folk. He has all the answers to life's problems and if he were in charge he would use his powers to banish all the bad in the world.
Hopefully his gilded view of life will be outgrown as he has to deal with the world on his own.
From his gibberish I can just picture him snickering as the wise old HBers fire back at his witless comments. Sitting behind his high$$$ computer that was bought with saved allowance and milk money. Fearsome signs on the door threatening any and all to stay out of his little kingdom stuck in daddy's attic. Probably one of those relative guest rooms the little shit has commandeered and made mommy mad because old Aunt Tillie can't sleep in the unclean shithole over the holidays. Plent of heavy metal posters and his hero "The Unknown Comic" drape the walls.
This guy's pissed off at all us decadents because his pimply ass coundn't get a date with a blind 3 toothed tranny ***** last time he got drug on family vacation to the "Big Easy".
He dreams of owning a boat but all that is available is old dad's flat bottom fishing skiff with the kickass Merc 35. His ragged out Yugo Sport with the Auto Zone pin striping just won't pull the little skiff back up the ramp, thus he's stuck in the top floor kingdom flooding the site with dribble hoping for a reaction.
Now go away and don't talk back to me you little rosy palmed pimple popper.

[Jordy]

Poster X is most likely a glassy eyed little teenager with higher values than us old foolish folk. He has all the answers to life's problems and if he were in charge he would use his powers to banish all the bad in the world.
Hopefully his gilded view of life will be outgrown as he has to deal with the world on his own.
From his gibberish I can just picture him snickering as the wise old HBers fire back at his witless comments. Sitting behind his high$$$ computer that was bought with saved allowance and milk money. Fearsome signs on the door threatening any and all to stay out of his little kingdom stuck in daddy's attic. Probably one of those relative guest rooms the little shit has commandeered and made mommy mad because old Aunt Tillie can't sleep in the unclean shithole over the holidays. Plent of heavy metal posters and his hero "The Unknown Comic" drape the walls.
This guy's pissed off at all us decadents because his pimply ass coundn't get a date with a blind 3 toothed tranny ***** last time he got drug on family vacation to the "Big Easy".
He dreams of owning a boat but all that is available is old dad's flat bottom fishing skiff with the kickass Merc 35. His ragged out Yugo Sport with the Auto Zone pin striping just won't pull the little skiff back up the ramp, thus he's stuck in the top floor kingdom flooding the site with dribble hoping for a reaction.
Now go away and don't talk back to me you little rosy palmed pimple popper.
Wow, that's gotta be one of the best 1st posts I've ever seen on this board. Nicely done OT. :D :D :D

[Poster X]

I guess you won't be taking me to prom then? :rolleyes:

[Run_em_Hard]

Old Texan...damn, shit....man I agree.

[058]

Poster X is most likely a glassy eyed little teenager with higher values than us old foolish folk. He has all the answers to life's problems and if he were in charge he would use his powers to banish all the bad in the world.
Hopefully his gilded view of life will be outgrown as he has to deal with the world on his own.
From his gibberish I can just picture him snickering as the wise old HBers fire back at his witless comments. Sitting behind his high$$$ computer that was bought with saved allowance and milk money. Fearsome signs on the door threatening any and all to stay out of his little kingdom stuck in daddy's attic. Probably one of those relative guest rooms the little shit has commandeered and made mommy mad because old Aunt Tillie can't sleep in the unclean shithole over the holidays. Plent of heavy metal posters and his hero "The Unknown Comic" drape the walls.
This guy's pissed off at all us decadents because his pimply ass coundn't get a date with a blind 3 toothed tranny ***** last time he got drug on family vacation to the "Big Easy".
He dreams of owning a boat but all that is available is old dad's flat bottom fishing skiff with the kickass Merc 35. His ragged out Yugo Sport with the Auto Zone pin striping just won't pull the little skiff back up the ramp, thus he's stuck in the top floor kingdom flooding the site with dribble hoping for a reaction.
Now go away and don't talk back to me you little rosy palmed pimple popper.
Now that is some funny shit....BRAVO!!

[SmokinLowriderSS]

PosterX making a bigger jack### out of himself.
How much training does it take to float a boat to pull people off a roof? I can do it and the Mil did not train me for it. Do ya think you need to train the military to stop theives? Just give them shoot-orders (especially PUBLICLY ANNOUNCED shoot orders, that way everybody knows it and nobody causes trouble to GET shot). Psychology.
I'll bet every US soldier can run a shovel and a sand-bag. All they need is direction from higher-up nearby nad they can cope. Our current all-volunteer soldiers are not the idiots Libs seem to think they are.
90,000 square miles. How many people do ya wanna just "Airdrop" in with 500 pounds of supplies, 90,000? That gives eash rescuer 1 square mile or 619 football stadiums to cover. How many people dare there on the ground? Maybe half that among the area? Bottom line, EVERYBODY CAN NOT BE FIRST.
Lessee ... the buildup to invade Kuwait took what, 6 months PosteridiotX, upgrade your non-existent factchecker.
Thx for word from the ground Stvneil, Hope you are well.
Hey PussX........ Just WHAT preytell is a "timely manner" when 3% of the entire US is a horendous mess and powerless with blocked roadways? (hint, you are now "empress PussX" you have the dream, make it reality)
On the buss-driver thing ... If I were supervisoring the evacuation, and we were short of buss-drivers, ANYBODY WITH A VALID DL and the willingness to would become a driver. It was a freaking emergency staring down a Cat 5 Hurricane that was EXPECTED to turn NO into an extension of Ponchatrain. I'd use anyone I could find to drive people out of there, to heck with the legalities, that's for later. In fact, if I ran out of DL's, I'd put anyone in there that COULD drive it. EMERGENCY!
Welcome OT. Nice to meet you.

[Seadog]

The media vendetta, left or right is just beginning. Another news article demonstrated that Bush several times pleaded with the governor of Louisianna to declare an emergency so that troops could be activated an sent in. She was the only governor not to do so. The response was moved forward by Bush using a controversial principle to move the support in without permission. But even then, we had federal administrative boondogles that delayed initial actions. As much as some people hate GW Bush, he cannot control every aspect of the federal beauracracy. He also cannot control the states and the cities. We have to learn from our failures. Life is not perfect and neither is any person. Centuries from now, we will be considered as we now consider those who live in the dark ages. We have to make the most of what our abilities allow. We have to make this disaster a means to produce the answer to future disasters.

[Poster X]

Did someone just get all snooty with me? I tried to read it, but it was kinda repetitive. Anywayz... start dropping food and water from a helicopter. If you don't know where to drop it...watch the damn news. In the meantime you can build your vast recovery team that you are bragging about now.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Did someone just get all snooty with me? I tried to read it, but it was kinda repetitive. Anywayz... start dropping food and water from a helicopter. If you don't know where to drop it...watch the damn news. In the meantime you can build your vast recovery team that you are bragging about now.
Aparently slept through english class a lot in school too. VERY low reading comprehension 'twould seem.

[Seadog]

Posser X always has an answer. But like the liberal politicians like Gore and Clinton that he adores, he never understands that facts are not made up of thin air. And you cannot pick and choose which parts of facts you can use. He is the type that firmly believes that there are more car emissions now than a hundred years ago. But explain to him that a 2005 Excursion produces less emissions than a 1985 Toyota Celica did when new. It is too much for him to grasp.