Drivers Licenses for Illegal Immigrants in CA

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Illegal Immigrant License Bill Advances
By Nancy Vogel
Times Staff Writer
September 8, 2005
SACRAMENTO — After a late-night debate on the politically sensitive issue of immigration, the California Assembly on Wednesday passed a bill to extend driver's licenses to illegal immigrants.
The measure would clear the way for California to create a distinct driver's license, with a unique design and color, for people who cannot prove legal citizenship in the United States. The license could be used only for driving and would not be valid identification for other purposes such as opening a bank account or boarding an airplane.
The bill, SB 60 by Sen. Gil Cedillo (D-Los Angeles), would also allow roughly 800,000 people in California who have applied to federal immigration officials for legal residency to get a California driver's license starting as soon as March 2006.
The bill passed 42 to 34.
Cedillo's bill passed the Senate in June on a 22-16 partisan split. Now the Senate is expected to approve recent amendments and send it to the governor, who is under pressure from Republicans to veto the measure.
Cedillo said he included several elements in the bill aimed at overcoming objections from Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, who last year vetoed a Cedillo driver's license bill. But before the state Assembly took up the new bill Wednesday, there were no indications that the changes would satisfy the governor.
The governor's office has consistently said Schwarzenegger does not want to take any action until the federal government finishes deciding its requirements for state licenses — changes spawned by concern that terrorists or other criminals could get such documents. Congress gave states the option to create distinct driver's licenses for illegal immigrants under the Real ID Act passed in May. That sweeping law will require most states to change the information they include on driver's licenses, the documents they require to issue a license and how they store driver's license data.
Before adopting their own new laws, most states are waiting to see what regulations the federal Department of Homeland Security issues to implement the Real ID Act. Those regulations are expected next year.
On the Assembly floor, Democrats argued that the bill would improve highway safety in California by ensuring that most drivers are licensed, trained and insured.
"This is a good bill because I believe it's the right thing to do because individuals are here and they're driving and that's the reality," said Assemblyman Jerome Horton (D-Inglewood).
Republicans argued that the bill would reward people for breaking the law.
Assemblyman Doug La Malfa (R-Richvale) asked how he could teach his children to follow rules "when the California state Legislature is making rules that cause people to not have to obey the law."
But the 90-minute debate focused less on the details of the bill than on the politically sensitive issue of immigration.
"Illegal immigration is an enormous cost to this state," said Assemblyman Mark Wyland (R-Escondido). "And what this does is propose to legitimize that."
Assemblyman Alberto Torrico (D-Newark) argued that undocumented workers, through taxes taken from their wages, "put in more than they're taking out."
"The reward is not the driver's license," he said. "People come to this country because of the jobs and the economic opportunity and to get what every one of us wants for our children … a better life."
In an attempt to head off Schwarzenegger's concern that California should wait until the federal government details the requirements of the Real ID Act, Cedillo amended his bill last week to incorporate such a delay.
Cedillo argues that his bill will help all 22 million Californians with driver's licenses by giving the Department of Motor Vehicles the authority to begin changing its procedures, computers and staffing to meet all the requirements of the federal Real ID Act by the May 2008 deadline. If California misses that deadline, its residents cannot use their driver's licenses for official federal purposes.
With his popularity eroded and polls showing voters displeased with the initiatives he has embraced on the November ballot, Schwarzenegger risks alienating loyal voters if he signs Cedillo's bill."It would be horribly disappointing" if the governor did not veto the bill, said Mike Spence, president of the California Republican Assembly.
Reprtinted without the permission of the LA Times

[Racer277]

What part of "Illegal" am I not understanding? :burningm:

[Wet Dream]

Congrats California!!! We're happy for you. :p Gotta love your state.

[mirvin]

The part where a lot of them have lived here longer than you. :D
Aren't we done talking about this???;)
Ok Bob, I'm gonna BREAK INTO your house, then demand you feed me and take care of my children and pay for my healthcare and the schooling of my children and there nothing you can do about it because I've been there for awhile now.......
That sounds like a good plan :supp:
All we're asking for is ACCOUNTABILITY.
mirvin ;)

[NOTALENT]

WTF!!! What the hell happens when they hit someone, even kill someone...whos F"ing responsible then..!!!!

[mirvin]

You're talking about the fringe offender. Most of those people work harder than you and me put together. Well, at least me. ;)
You don't have to break into my house, just open the front door. If you need a hand, I'll be glad to help. ;)
NOw how the hell am I supposed to ge all riled up about that you freeking MR NICE GUY!!!!
I don't think 10 million illegals would be considered "fringe":eek:

[Wet Dream]

We love it better than we love PA, that's for damn sure.
We? Are you painting "WE" with the same brush. :confused: How many times have you been here? You lived out here how long? Its actually quite nice, dont have to lock the house, even on vacation, cars are open. Douche bags in my kids schools? Nope, just your average kids. Normal stuff. You don't have to get all pissed off because your state sucks. Lived there, left there. I got smart. ;)

[NOTALENT]

I don't know, who's responsible now? If you have a point, make it so that we all understand it.
Sounds understandable to me seeing how the topic is Illega immagrants..
If an illegal hit's a U.S citizen. There not going to have insurance...as most of them dont already...what happens...there obviously not going to be able to pay, Im curious to see how there going to handle these prediciments...

[Creator]

10 millions illegals are not gumming up the system. Stop trying to paint everyone with the same brush.:D
OH, well hell in that case let them all in...F it!
I had no idea that hospital were closing because too many paying patients were going. I always thought it was because of all the non english speaking illegals that have no insurance and no money that were causing the problem...Thanks for setting me straight on this one.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Sounds understandable to me seeing how the topic is Illega immagrants..
If an illegal hit's a U.S citizen. There not going to have insurance...as most of them dont already...what happens...there obviously not going to be able to pay, Im curious to see how there going to handle these prediciments...
I'm not arguing for or against, at least not yet, but the thought of those proposing the legislation is that the illegals will get insurance now that they will have a drivers license. Currently can not get auto insurance unless you have a drivers license.

[mirvin]

10 millions illegals are not gumming up the system. Stop trying to paint everyone with the same brush. That's like saying all French guys molest dogs. :D
Yes there are 10 million of them, at least according to the NEW YORK TIMES :220v:
Anyway, would you not have a problem with it if they were OTM??
Just trying to figure out what it is that makes it ok? Help me understand. They broke federal law, they've destroyed our public schools and our healthcare system. They are bankrupting our state. Help me understand why we should just let it be. :cool:

[mirvin]

I'm not arguing for or against, at least not yet, but the thought of those proposing the legislation is that the illegals will get insurance now that they will have a drivers license. Currently can not get auto insurance unless you have a drivers license.
If they get licenses they still can't pay for insurance. You know what that means, WE WILL PAY. There will be some kind of subsidised low cost insurance ant that means WE, every taxpayer and insurance payer will foot the bill.
And don't forget, this isn't about driving. THat's what the sham is. THis is about getting a LEGAL DOCUMENT into the hands of millions of people SO THEY CAN VOTE.
That's all it's about. Don't be fooled by the crust. Look at the core.

[Kachina26]

So, why is it they call him "one bill Gil"?
You're talking about the fringe offender. Most of those people work harder than you and me put together.
So, if a drug dealer is more entrepreneurial than me, does that give him a pass on his illegal activities? I mean, he is making more money than me and buying big ticket items which involve large amounts of sales tax. (I don't mean mr streetlevel dealer, I mean the big boys). You know, the guys buying $500k boats and multi million dollar homes. Do we ignore lawbreakers based on their motivation? BTW, the ones that were here longer than me have had 2 amnesty programs in which to get legal. So, I don't think they are the ones we are going to hand licenses out to.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

If they get licenses they still can't pay for insurance. You know what that means, WE WILL PAY. There will be some kind of subsidised low cost insurance ant that means WE, every taxpayer and insurance payer will foot the bill.
And don't forget, this isn't about driving. THat's what the sham is. THis is about getting a LEGAL DOCUMENT into the hands of millions of people SO THEY CAN VOTE.
That's all it's about. Don't be fooled by the crust. Look at the core.
I agree. I was just putting out what the theory of the legislation backers is.

[NOTALENT]

If they get licenses they still can't pay for insurance. You know what that means, WE WILL PAY. There will be some kind of subsidised low cost insurance ant that means WE, every taxpayer and insurance payer will foot the bill.
And don't forget, this isn't about driving. THat's what the sham is. THis is about getting a LEGAL DOCUMENT into the hands of millions of people SO THEY CAN VOTE.
That's all it's about. Don't be fooled by the crust. Look at the core.
Exactly...not many illegals can afford much..how are they going to be able to afford insurance..thats there last priority...all there lookin at is getting over here...and finding some fake U.S citizen documentation!! Stealin SSC or something else..!! B.S!

[goneboatin]

Why even issue a driver's license? If they get a ticket, they just won't show to court or pay the fine. If they get pulled over on a warrant, they'll just impound their car that was never registered, do a couple of weekends picking up trash on the freeway and buy another clunker.
Driver's licenses have always been a form of ID. If you give them a license, you erode the value of a CDL.
Why are we giving illegals anything? This will just make them stay here longer.
If we do issue a driver's license then take away all the other freebies they get, like food stamps, healthcare, welfare, and now home loans. Where's it all going to end?
If they issue a license that's a different color that can't be used as ID, or boading planes then Jesse Jackson will cry foul and then say that those licenses are discriminitory and are like "making the Jews wear six pointed stars on thier clothing". Hey if they don't like it here, then they can leave anytime.
What is so difficult about coming into this county leagally? Standing in line?

[Run_em_Hard]

That is a f'n joke....its just saying that it is ok for illegals to be in our country. That bullshit. Someone needs to step in and control that shit.

[Kachina26]

You think I care? You'd rather let them live here and pick your cotton without any representation? Didn't we try this 200 years ago?You've got to be kidding!!
I thought the folks from 200 years ago were brought here against their will??? I don't think they got free healthcare or education either, not to mention a paycheck.

[mirvin]

You think our state is bankrupt now? Kick them out. All of them. You want a localized depression in the largest state in the US?
If this is really the core of your argument all I can say is that the free market will take its course.
I was hoping you had some good "humanitarian" points that would make me feel bad about myself, seriously. :cool:
THe problem is so out of controll that you even admit that it's holding up our economy??
I don't beleive the answer is to throw everyone out. But something has got to be done and we are being screwd by the Fed on this one. Just like we're being screwed by the Dems (who want new voters) and by the Reps ( who want cheap labor).

[NOTALENT]

Yeah, that's pretty much all they think about while they're picking your vegetables 16 hours a day is how they can get over.
Most likely yeah...u know if there here legally I have no problem with them...I will even shake there hands...but illegally...fock that..no respect..im a mutt...my grandparents (mothers side)came here LEGALLY from Spain, and MEXICO! Im not taking sides because im racist...but there talking about over population now, traffic on the freeways, crime rates, etc...its all going to increase!

[Wet Dream]

Where I live sounds exactly like where you live, except without all the snow, Amish and transplated New Jerseyites. You're the one that's hurt.
Luckily, I'm too far west to have to worry about the asses from Jersey. ;)
But I do have to shovel the snow from time to time.

[mirvin]

I'm not a humanitarian, I'm a realist. They are the driving labor force in the two largest industries on our state's economy. You don't reduce the workforce in your two largest industries by 50%. Where in the hell did you go to business school?
I went to the business school of "Free Enterprise" my friend. The problem with your argument is that it's a house of cards. It's going to fall apart either way.
If we go down the road of amnesty we will wind up paying that labor force a living wage because once they are no longer "ILLEGAL ALIENS" they will be able to organize and demand employee rights. According to you this will destroy the industry. According to you the industry can't operate without slave labor???

[Kilrtoy]

Welcome to California you terrorist
the blue line is for Health care
the green line is for welfare
the orange line is for your drivers license
Sorry the lines are so long, but we will do everything we can to help you victimize this country more than you already have.... :devil: :devil: :devil:
l

[desertbird]

WTF!!! What the hell happens when they hit someone, even kill someone...whos F"ing responsible then..!!!!
This is un****inbelievable... :( :(
Paramedic killed by immigrant driver
By Patricia Farrell Aidem, Staff Writer
AGUA DULCE -- A paramedic heading home from an overnight shift was killed at dawn Tuesday when a motorist -- an illegal immigrant with a lengthy rap sheet -- plowed into him on a rural stretch of Sierra Highway, the Highway Patrol reported.
Co-workers of Lancaster resident Michael Sprinkles, a 37-year-old husband and father of two, were among the first to respond to the 6:30 a.m. collision north of Canyon Country.
"It seems like it's always the good guys, you know?" said Greg Schowen, public affairs manager for American Medical Response, the ambulance company that employed Sprinkles for 10 years. "Mike was a total family guy, a good friend and a hard worker. He always volunteered when we needed someone to help out."
Sprinkles, riding a motorcycle, was heading home to Lancaster after a 24-hour shift at Los Angeles County Fire Station 107 in Canyon Country. Coming the opposite direction was Juan Bibinz, 38, of Littlerock, driving a Mazda Protege, CHP Officer Wendy Hahn said.
According to witnesses, Bibinz had been driving recklessly and crossed the double-yellow center line south of Davenport Road, where his vehicle slammed head-on into Sprinkles, Hahn said. Bibinz suffered minor injuries and was treated in the jail ward at Los Angeles County/USC Medical Center.
He was arrested and upon his release will be booked on suspicion of felony manslaughter and reckless driving resulting in death, she said.
"(Sprinkles) was just off work and was going home," Hahn said. "The Mazda crossed the double yellow lines right into the motorcycle."
Bibinz, she said, is an illegal immigrant who has been arrested a dozen times and was deported once to Mexico. He has been convicted of four felonies, drug charges, thefts and a count of willful cruelty to a child, for which he served five days in jail. Bibinz did not appear to be intoxicated, she said.
Bibinz was most recently arrested July 18 on suspicion of petty theft in Hawthorne and was released the next day, sheriff's records show.
At the AMR regional office in Lancaster, which operates ambulance service in the north county, grief counselors were available Tuesday to meet with the staff.
Sprinkles helped train new paramedics and taught the company's driver training program. He is survived by his wife, Rose, and sons, Austin, 12, and Logan, 9. l=8s=8 Patricia Farrell Aidem, (661) 257-5251 pat.aidem@dailynews.com

[cdog]

You can't fix a bullet wound with a band-aid. I'm getting out of this crazy state. Enjoy the tax's to float the freeloaders. I wonder if I can sue the state if one of their illegal alliens with driver licences were to get into a car accident with me at the illegal's fault. Would'nt the state be the "Sponsor" for this problem. Sure seems to make sence.

[Creator]

And I suppose your wife works in all the local hospitals in socal too or is it in Temecula. I sure hope you're not trying to make a fact out of 1 or 2 hospitals! Does she work in the OC where none have closed or in LA where a few have closed or in SD where a few more have closed? Qualify your statement before you try to sell us on it as being a fact.

[Kilrtoy]

Are they crippling our healthcare system? You say yes, I say no. Have you ever actually sat in an ER all night to see who comes in? I don't, but my wife does five nights a week. She says the great majority of people that come walking through the ER doors for free healthcare are not illegal. I believe her because she doesn't like illegals any more than you do.
I disagree bob. Not that you are wrong and I am right. My wife lost her favorite job due to the overwhelming influx of illegals dropping babies like flies and no health care... So the hospital absorbed the cost until it no longer could afford to pay their employees.... the entire night crew got SHIT canned...
the wife said approximately 75% of the deliveries were to illegals.....
IN SIMI VALLEY

[sintax]

Sounds understandable to me seeing how the topic is Illega immagrants..
If an illegal hit's a U.S citizen. There not going to have insurance...as most of them dont already...what happens...there obviously not going to be able to pay, Im curious to see how there going to handle these prediciments...
Once again, the responsible american citizen pays. Assuming you have the uninsured motorist coverage (which I pray to god everyone in so.cal already has) that will cover your damage. Your rates will increase, and life will go on.
Insurance is a HUGE scam, but thats a whole different thread.

[Kilrtoy]

I'm sure, if we tried really hard, we could find a person of every ethnic background that has run into a policeman, fireman or paramedic on the freeway. That does not prove anything except that illegals can be just as bad at driving as anybody else.
Point being this man would still be here and his kids and wife would not be with out the person they loved. IF HE WAS IN TH EPLACE HE BELONG... NOT THE USA

[mirvin]

Did I call it slave labor? We tried slave labor before, it didn't work out so well. It's a tradeoff. We let them slink over here and pretend we don't notice and they work cheaper doing jobs that nobody wants to do. In return, we let them stay if they play nice, educate their kids so that hopefully twenty years from now they won't be picking broccoli all day and throw some some really crappy "free" healthcare.
Are they crippling our healthcare system? You say yes, I say no. Have you ever actually sat in an ER all night to see who comes in? I don't, but my wife does five nights a week. She says the great majority of people that come walking through the ER doors for free healthcare are not illegal. I believe her because she doesn't like illegals any more than you do.
Sorry Bob....I just can't do this anymore:( The facts are out there. I can't make you believe them if you don't want to.
Lets talk about boating again :rolleyes:

[Wet Dream]

I hate snow. And, I can't live more than 4 hours from the river.
From my house to the river...15 minutes :D That includes backing down the ramp, offloading and parking the truck.

[Creator]

My wife works night shift ER at Tri City in Oceanside. Is that ghetto enough for you?
Nope. When she starts working in LA with my sister in law lets see how her stats come out.
I didn't know oceanside was Ghetto, if only the true ghetto's were that "bad".
Although I will say Kuddos to your wife, that's a tough profession.

[Kilrtoy]

You will never change my mind about something I believe in, so, you're right, why bother. I take a position and I stand my ground and I respect you more for standing yours.
OK, boating it is.
Kilr, sorry to hear about your wife, hope she found something just as good or better.
She got another job right away and it is the same thing and this hospital is also in a very expensive neighborhood and it still caters to the illegals and she took a nice pay cut....
BUT she has a job

[Kachina26]

Did I call it slave labor?
I thought that's what the "200 years ago" remark meant :confused:
and they work cheaper doing jobs that nobody wants to do.
My kid wanted a job at 15, he was willing to wash dishes like his dad did when he was young, but somebody else had the job. And, they had no intention of quiting and going off to college, they were there permanently in hopes of raising a family on a minimum wage(or less), job. My buddies son wasn't the college type, and wanted to go to work as a framer. Unfortunately, he doesn't speak spanish, so he hasn't been able to find work in that arena. Not all of them are here picking veggies 16 hours a day. How about masonry? There are plenty of "jobs that nobody wants to do" that are no longer available to those that DO want to do them, due to an abundance of cheap labor. Many low to lower middle class citizens are being displaced by this cheap labor. I know that if the employers weren't hiring, then part of the problem would be fixed. This certainly is not a simple problem, but to further legitimize the presence of the folks is not a step in the right direction.
Also, while I can't speak for everyone here, this is not a race issue for me. I remember growing up, my dad refused to let my mom's illegal alien friend into our house. Oh yeah, the race part. She was from Canada and lilly white.

[mirvin]

You will never change my mind about something I believe in, so, you're right, why bother. I take a position and I stand my ground and I respect you more for standing yours.
OK, boating it is.
Kilr, sorry to hear about your wife, hope she found something just as good or better.
Sounds good Bob:smile:
I know it's not much, but I am going to Buena Vista tomorrow :D First trip out since June :squiggle:

[syke-o]

whats crazy is alot of this "cheap" labor isnt so cheap anymore..... in many of the construction trades you cant even find illegals for "cheap" or minimum wage... try like $15 for drywallers my dad used for some of is jobs over 5 years ago.... pull up to home depot to pick up someone to paint and they wont do it for under $10 an hour... miniimum is $6.25 isnt it???

[rivercrazy]

From what I heard on the radio this morning - Arnold is going to turn down this bill. Kudo's out to Arnold for doing this.

[Creator]

whats crazy is alot of this "cheap" labor isnt so cheap anymore..... in many of the construction trades you cant even find illegals for "cheap" or minimum wage... try like $15 for drywallers my dad used for some of is jobs over 5 years ago.... pull up to home depot to pick up someone to paint and they wont do it for under $10 an hour... miniimum is $6.25 isnt it???
My parents hired a reputable roofing company a few years back, turns out this company hired some day workers from the Home Depot Parking lot (the owner didn't know). One of the guys claimed he fell and put in a claim against my parents home owners insurance. Now I was there that day and I saw this guy and he never fell. Long story short the claim was denied but the fact remains they (illegals) know how to work the system and do so way too often at our expense.

[Kachina26]

Here's the deal and if you don't like it, I really don't care. You can't keep people down forever. IF you're (the rhetorical you, not you personally) are going to let them come over here and do the dirty work, then, guess what, they are going to try and better themselves by getting better jobs, buying nicer cars and living in nicer houses. In the process, hopefully their children will become educated and eventually go to college.
Please keep in mind, most of these children in YOUR schools were born here, that makes them US citizens, with all the same rights and priviledges as you and me. You don't like it, change the 14th amendment.
I ain't looking to keep them down. Just come legally, like my wife did over a 3 year period at the cost of $10k (back in the 70's) I would hope that they would better themselves. Become educated and assimilate into society rather than keeping culturally segregated and downplaying the importance of education. As for anchor babies, well, I'm not going to change the 14th ammendment and neither is anyone else. Please understand, I don't hate the people. I hate the crime. Heck, some of my best friends were illegal at one point in their lives. (Yes, that was supposed to be funny, and it is true. Ok, Chuy isn't my best friend, but we have quite a few laughs together) :)

[mirvin]

Here's the deal and if you don't like it, I really don't care. You can't keep people down forever. IF you're (the rhetorical you, not you personally) are going to let them come over here and do the dirty work, then, guess what, they are going to try and better themselves by getting better jobs, buying nicer cars and living in nicer houses. In the process, hopefully their children will become educated and eventually go to college.
Please keep in mind, most of these children in YOUR schools were born here, that makes them US citizens, with all the same rights and priviledges as you and me. You don't like it, change the 14th amendment.
Dammit BOB!! Isnt' that part of the problem?? It's widely known that you can sprint accross the border without reprecussion and then check yourself into a hospital and BAM!! You're in:confused: I don't care what color you're skin is or where you're from there's something wrong with that.

[Kachina26]

My parents hired a reputable roofing company a few years back, turns out this company hired some day workers from the Home Depot Parking lot (the owner didn't know). One of the guys claimed he fell and put in a claim against my parents home owners insurance. Now I was there that day and I saw this guy and he never fell. Long story short the claim was denied but the fact remains they (illegals) know how to work the system and do so way too often at our expense.
My good friend knew how to work the system pretty good himself. He was white and born here. Plenty of trash out there.white trash "friend" story (http://www2.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37275)

[Creator]

My good friend knew how to work the system pretty good himself. He was white and born here. Plenty of trash out there.white trash "friend" story (http://www2.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37275)
No doubt!

[cdog]

My biggest complaint is how the mexican illegals don't want to be a part of american society. They want to make the money, partake in the freedoms and use the social benifits but still consider themselfs mexican and turn their neighborhoods into tijuana. My wife's grandfather is from Chile. She is the first generation Born here in the US. Grampa Jorge is a hard workin guy who speaks english and consider's himself American. His son was born in Chile also and graduated with his masters at U of A as did my wife. He say's the same thing about the mexican illegals in Tucson. They speak spanish to him and confide in him. He tells us what they really think. He say's it's a well known fact that they consider the southwest and Ca stolen from mexico and plan to take it back by population and use of it's resources. It's no conspiracy. The mexican goverment condones this behavior.

[Kachina26]

Just out of curiousity, where is your wife from?
Philipines. No, I was not in the military. She was adopted out of an orphanage when she was 3 months old, and was unable to enter the US until she was 4. Because, mom and dad played by the rules. That's all I'm asking for, play by the rules and not reward those who don't. As far as the need for DL's for them, Ca already accepts a valid foreign DL to operate a motor vehicle in the US. So, I don't see the need for them to get a CA DL.

[cdog]

You're right, this is considered a well known fact. I'll let you in on a little secret, it's not just Mexicans from south of the border that feel that way.
Edit: BTW, I'm not implying in any way, shape or form that these are my feelings, I'm just saying it's not relegated to illegals.
Is'nt that like handing them the key's to the safe?

[Propster]

I don't think the excuse that they come to get the cheap labor jobs is valid. Lots of people would love to come to america. It should not be a right for anyone to run across the border. 2 Billion people in the world would come to the US if they could. Can you imagine if we let everybody in? Seems like all we are getting for illegal aliens are thousands and thousands of Mexicans, Russians and Middle Easterners.
We, as Americans should decide who we want to come in. In Australia, you need to have skill that they want before they let you in. Back in the 60's and 70's they needed workers, they looked around the world to see who they wanted. They chose the italians because they worked hard and brought something to their culture. They advertised in Italy and brought thousands of them over. I am not saying that we should go get Italians, but I am saying that we should have a choice.
We should lock up our borders and make a conscious choice about who gets in and who doesn't. Why doesn't congress get it?

[Run_em_Hard]

We should set up gaurd towers every mile or so about a mile from the border. When an illegal trys to run across the border, give them a couple of fair and humane warnings. If they don't stop, shoot em. People would volunteer to do this. Its cheap and effective. Fuk it.

[Boatcop]

Driver's Licenses have addresses.
Issue them the licenses and then send the list to the Border Patrol.
Sounds like an easy way to curb the problem.
(Yeh, I know. It would never happen, but a good thought.) :frown:

[Starloans]

Is this the new license???
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/43878NewCDL-med.jpg

[Biglue]

ALright hold the f'n phones. Why don't we all back off a minute. Yeah there is some problems stemming form illegal migration. What about 300 years ago when the Europeans came here and f'd up what was once a paradise. Brought over booze disease and mayhem leading to indians killing each other through caniving money hungry business folks. Is that justifyable? Now many of us call ourselves american and feel like this place is granted to each and everyone of us. It's not. It takes contribution from everyone of us. Including may illegals that don't live off of welfare and free heealthcare. Remember the old give me you weak and your poor and all that on the Statue of Liberty? Get over it folks. Migration will never stop legal or illegal. Just like all the other shit that goes on in our country. I don't see any of you pissing about how the government pisses away 2-3 times the amount of money for it's projects. Or how about making it easier on ourselves here at home and bringing back the jobs leaving the state because we are too spoiled to work for lower wages. How about doing something about workman's comp to keep business in California. BTW how many illegals contribute to taxes that they can't claim. I don't see people complaining about that free money. It's a 2 way street people.
Just my .02.

[Scape Goat]

Some of my best friends were illegals but they played by the rules now residents or citizens. One even became a U.S. border patrol.
As for my wife she came on a visa then obtained her Citizenship and now teaches, but her mom been here for 20 years never learned english, works in sweatshops and sends her money to help her family who make good money in El Salvador[lawers,doctors, and mechanics]. What pisses me off is the fact that she will send all her money to them and ask me to pay her bills,hell no and I told my wife that if she paid them she will be back living with them.

[Steve 1]

ALright hold the f'n phones. Why don't we all back off a minute. Yeah there is some problems stemming form illegal migration. What about 300 years ago when the Europeans came here and f'd up what was once a paradise. Brought over booze disease and mayhem leading to indians killing each other through caniving money hungry business folks. Is that justifyable? Now many of us call ourselves american and feel like this place is granted to each and everyone of us. It's not. It takes contribution from everyone of us. Including may illegals that don't live off of welfare and free heealthcare. Remember the old give me you weak and your poor and all that on the Statue of Liberty? Get over it folks. Migration will never stop legal or illegal. Just like all the other shit that goes on in our country. I don't see any of you pissing about how the government pisses away 2-3 times the amount of money for it's projects. Or how about making it easier on ourselves here at home and bringing back the jobs leaving the state because we are too spoiled to work for lower wages. How about doing something about workman's comp to keep business in California. BTW how many illegals contribute to taxes that they can't claim. I don't see people complaining about that free money. It's a 2 way street people.
Just my .02.
Yes but they did not try to build a lawless third world chit hole here they all need to leave now!!BTW our ancestors came in thru the system .
http://images.uploadyourimages.com/930819a_mexican20day20laborers.gif

[Kachina26]

and they work cheaper doing jobs that nobody wants to do
But when I called you on it, you said,
then, guess what, they are going to try and better themselves by getting better jobs, buying nicer cars and living in nicer houses.
I can't belive I let that slide, which is it? Are they doing the jobs that nobody wants to do? Or, are they striving to take the better paying jobs away from citizens for cheaper wages?
You can't have it both ways man, either they are supposedly doing what citizens won't do or they are taking away jobs. :D

[Biglue]

Yes but they did not try to build a lawless third world chit hole here they all need to leave now!!BTW our ancestors came in thru the system .
What f'n system? The early settlers were considered undesireables in Europe and were basically being rid of here to the Americas. My Ancestors were here long before there was any migration of anglos. Now it's reversed. The whole f'n thing is so hypocritical.
I'll tell you what I see around my part of town. I sometimes see some people selling flowers and fruit on street dividers and offramps. They are hispanics. Then I see the lazy FFFF's with a Vietnam Veteran sign pan handling for money. You know what he is???? Yes Anglo. So at that stage who is building or at least contributing to the 3rd world shit hole you mentioned. Who would you rather leave the guy who is at least trying to work or the guy who is pan handling? If you would be rid of the Hispanic that would make you a f'n hypocrite my friend. Perhaps you should find something else to bitch at.
If you want to attack the taxes that aren't being paid on the fruit sales then you also need to attack the dude pan handling not paying his taxes.

[Blown 472]

What f'n system? The early settlers were considered undesireables in Europe and were basically being rid of here to the Americas. My Ancestors were here long before there was any migration of anglos. Now it's reversed. The whole f'n thing is so hypocritical.
I'll tell you what I see around my part of town. I sometimes see some people selling flowers and fruit on street dividers and offramps. They are hispanics. Then I see the lazy FFFF's with a Vietnam Veteran sign pan handling for money. You know what he is???? Yes Anglo. So at that stage who is building or at least contributing to the 3rd world shit hole you mentioned. Who would you rather leave the guy who is at least trying to work or the guy who is pan handling? If you would be rid of the Hispanic that would make you a f'n hypocrite my friend. Perhaps you should find something else to bitch at.
If you want to attack the taxes that aren't being paid on the fruit sales then you also need to attack the dude pan handling not paying his taxes.
Dont waste your time on that bigot.

[Biglue]

Dont waste your time on that bigot.
Bigotry and ignorance are hard to deal with, but yes you do have a point my friend. I'm Mexican by heritage and customs but I am proud to be American. It just bothers me to see all this shit about Mexicans and illegals from people who don't have a focking clue.

[Steve 1]

Big glue What in the hell are you talking about??? Yes I too have ancestors that fought in the revolutionary war and we also have newer family members that came in thru Ellis Island and Philadelphia VIA the SYSTEM got it the SYSTEM!!!!!!!!
I am talking about Border Criminals here...BTW ever see the crap you have to go thru to say bring in a Japanese or Asian wife?? As an American citizen? And then these dirtballs just run in across the southern border and plug into the system...
Use our emergency rooms as health care ..what about the 68-90 Billion in costs these people accrue? The crimes look at the number of open homicide and felony Warrants; Hint Border criminals they need to go now!

[Steve 1]

Dont waste your time on that bigot.
Drop dead ole worthless one!

[Blown 472]

Big glue What in the hell are you talking about??? Yes I too have ancestors that fought in the revolutionary war and we also have newer family members that came in thru Ellis Island and Philadelphia VIA the SYSTEM got it the SYSTEM!!!!!!!!
I am talking about Border Criminals here...BTW ever see the crap you have to go thru to say bring in a Japanese or Asian wife?? As an American citizen? And then these dirtballs just run in across the southern border and plug into the system...
Use our emergency rooms as health care ..what about the 68-90 Billion in costs these people accrue? The crimes look at the number of open homicide and felony Warrants; Hint Border criminals they need to go now!
Have you talked to your elected officals about this? perhaps you could e mail them or go visit them and tell them how you feel about this.

[Steve 1]

Have you talked to your elected officals about this? perhaps you could e mail them or go visit them and tell them how you feel about this.
Have you made a reservation for yourself in the state hospital for the criminally insane???

[Biglue]

Big glue What in the hell are you talking about??? Yes I too have ancestors that fought in the revolutionary war and we also have newer family members that came in thru Ellis Island and Philadelphia VIA the SYSTEM got it the SYSTEM!!!!!!!!
I am talking about Border Criminals here...BTW ever see the crap you have to go thru to say bring in a Japanese or Asian wife?? As an American citizen? And then these dirtballs just run in across the southern border and plug into the system...
Use our emergency rooms as health care ..what about the 68-90 Billion in costs these people accrue? The crimes look at the number of open homicide and felony Warrants; Hint Border criminals they need to go now!
Look man is it any different for people to come through the system vs. border hoppers to contribute to the health care costs and defecit? Try going to a low income region populated by whites and you will see the exact same problem you're seeing with illegals on the free healthcare. What is your f'n point. People are migrating for a better life period. **** your statistics. Do you really want to compare open warrants and felonies commited by race? I think anglos have that one beat on sheer majority numbers.
Let's talk about Klansmen, dirty politicians, anglo criminals (with open warrants). Why don't you scream exile for them? That is my point you're a f'n hypocrite. Blame the short comings of our nation on illegals. Find another song and dance already.

[Starloans]

Some of my best friends were illegals but they played by the rules now residents or citizens. One even became a U.S. border patrol.
As for my wife she came on a visa then obtained her Citizenship and now teaches, but her mom been here for 20 years never learned english, works in sweatshops and sends her money to help her family who make good money in El Salvador[lawers,doctors, and mechanics]. What pisses me off is the fact that she will send all her money to them and ask me to pay her bills,hell no and I told my wife that if she paid them she will be back living with them.
I'm sorry but I don't have any friends that are illegals. :confused:
I have no problem with anyone who wants to be in this country as long as they are here legally.

[Steve 1]

Look man is it any different for people to come through the system vs. border hoppers to contribute to the health care costs and defecit? Try going to a low income region populated by whites and you will see the exact same problem you're seeing with illegals on the free healthcare. What is your f'n point. People are migrating for a better life period. **** your statistics. Do you really want to compare open warrants and felonies commited by race? I think anglos have that one beat on sheer majority numbers.
Let's talk about Klansmen, dirty politicians, anglo criminals (with open warrants). Why don't you scream exile for them? That is my point you're a f'n hypocrite. Blame the short comings of our nation on illegals. Find another song and dance already.
What do you NOT understand about BORDER CRIMINAL You want in try INS ..They got to leave.

[Biglue]

What do you NOT understand about BORDER CRIMINAL You want in try INS ..They got to leave.
I know what you are saying. I know what a border criminal is. My question to you is what is the difference between white trash, illegals, blacks? They are a lower class of people. My question to you is why don't you scream exile for everyone. Quit blaming all those issues on just border hoppers. Coming through a system does not make you all high and mighty. I know I'd rather have the guy with a job and some sort of drive and determination next to me........no matter who they are.

[Blown 472]

I know what you are saying. I know what a border criminal is. My question to you is what is the difference between white trash, illegals, blacks? They are a lower class of people. My question to you is why don't you scream exile for everyone. Quit blaming all those issues on just border hoppers. Coming through a system does not make you all high and mighty. I know I'd rather have the guy with a job and some sort of drive and determination next to me........no matter who they are.
You will have to forgive stevo, for as hard as he tries he can't wash that white power tattoo off.

[Steve 1]

I know what you are saying. I know what a border criminal is. My question to you is what is the difference between white trash, illegals, blacks? They are a lower class of people. My question to you is why don't you scream exile for everyone. Quit blaming all those issues on just border hoppers. Coming through a system does not make you all high and mighty. I know I'd rather have the guy with a job and some sort of drive and determination next to me........no matter who they are.
I guess the term Americans is lost here..

[460 jus getn it]

I guess the term Americans is lost here..
so are you saying that all of the white trash people arent american. are you saying all of the ignorrant blacks arent american. there is trash in every race but for someone to single out on race its self is ****ed up.....................

[Steve 1]

You will have to forgive stevo, for as hard as he tries he can't wash that white power tattoo off.
Huh??? Well coming from a panty waist Anarchist that’s a laugh ..

[Steve 1]

so are you saying that all of the white trash people arent american. are you saying all of the ignorrant blacks arent american. there is trash in every race but for someone to single out on race its self is ****ed up.....................
Learn to READ a$$hole where EXACTLY did I say that chit????????????

[Steve 1]

I am waiting 460 A$$HOLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Steve 1]

460 I was talking about BORDER CRIMINALS you need to go talk to GLUE-Head about disrespecting American citizens!!!!!!!!! NOW RUN ALONG.

[460 jus getn it]

Learn to READ a$$hole where EXACTLY did I say that chit????????????
but your singling out the so called border criminals. believe me i read this hole thread and i see one thing. a piece of $hit like yourself. hows that for a answer..............everyone deserves to have a good life and the immagrants who come here want just that. do i agree that they stand on the street corners and beg for work no. do i agree that they run like they own the world no. do there children deserve to have a good life yes. they immagrate here to have a good life or at least try to have one. if they are here to give there family a good life what the harm in giving them a drivers license.

[460 jus getn it]

460 I was talking about BORDER CRIMINALS you need to go talk to GLUE-Head about disrespecting American citizens!!!!!!!!! NOW RUN ALONG.
border criminals.............again singling out on race its self...................

[Steve 1]

but your singling out the so called border criminals. believe me i read this hole thread and i see one thing. a piece of $hit like yourself. hows that for a answer..............everyone deserves to have a good life and the immagrants who come here want just that. do i agree that they stand on the street corners and beg for work no. do i agree that they run like they own the world no. do there children deserve to have a good life yes. they immagrate here to have a good life or at least try to have one. if they are here to give there family a good life what the harm in giving them a drivers license.
Learn to read and people should use the system in place for immagration ..The only thing here that stinks is you!

[Steve 1]

border criminals.............again singling out on race its self...................
Fu--ing Idiot go away and grow a brain..

[Kachina26]

if they are here to give there family a good life what the harm in giving them a drivers license.
They are here illegally! Giving a DL would legitimize their illegal presence here! What about those who are trying to play by the rules? Why should those who cut in line be given a reward? Plenty of people from other countries that do not border ours would love to come here too. They also desire a better life. But they must wait their turn. Immagration is a beautiful thing, when it is done legally. We need new ideas and motivated people. But, we also need to control just how many people from each country. Also, we need to make sure that the people don't bring in disease (read TB, small pox, and other once eliminated diseases), not every country in the world has the same health standard as us. That's not a dig on Mexico either, the Philipines is known for TB. My wife's mother was quatantined because of TB when she came here 30+ years ago. Also, we don't need many people with lower education (I think the boards prove we have enough of those :D ) . I'm not saying all of Mexico is under educated, but that is who is jumping the border to sell roses. How about the Mexicans who are doing it right? Is it fair to them?

[Blown 472]

Fu--ing Idiot go away and grow a brain..
Hey stevo, I am sure there are some poor black neighbor hoods that could use some help and that are really close to you.

[OGShocker]

Hey stevo, I am sure there are some poor black neighbor hoods that could use some help and that are really close to you.
Hey assclown troll, are you describing those who might live as ones neighbor as "hoods" or did you not know it was one word? "neighborhoods" :hammerhea

[Blown 472]

Hey assclown troll, are you describing those who might live as ones neighbor as "hoods" or did you not know it was one word? "neighborhoods" :hammerhea
Yeah yeah thats it, :notam: :notam:

[Steve 1]

Here you go !
http://images.uploadyourimages.com/722674a_mexiforniams-13.jpg

[Biglue]

Here you go !
http://images.uploadyourimages.com/722674a_mexiforniams-13.jpg
Just hope that no girls in your family wind up with someone like that.
There's an old Mexican saying "the least favorite thing you like to see will the first thing at your doorstep".
Best wishes from
Lue. :D :D :D :D :D

[kahanamoko]

You're talking about the fringe offender. Most of those people work harder than you and me put together. Well, at least me.
Yeah, and so do prisoners in a heavy labor camp. Still don't want any living in my neighborhood.