Myor Nadin: School buses not his fault?

[bigq]

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin said Friday that it wasn't his fault city school buses weren't mobilized to facilitate the Hurricane Katrina evacuation he ordered.
Appearing on NBC's "Dateline," Nagin was asked by host Stone Phillips: "What was mobilized? I mean were national guard troops in position. Were helicopters standing by? Were buses ready to take people away?" "No. None of that," the Big Easy mayor replied.
"Why is that?" an incredulous Phillips asked.
Nagin replied: "I dont know. That is question for somebody else."
The Louisiana Democrat didn't explain just who the "somebody else" was, saying only:
"All I can do is [say] that I was dealing with it as a mayor -- how do I prepare my city for an incredibly powerful storm? So immediately we tried to get as many people out as possible."
The "Dateline" exchange was only the second time Mayor Nagin had been asked about the failure to use his city's school buses, hundreds of which sat 1.2 miles from the Superdome.
Two days after the levees broke, Nagin told a New Orleans radio station that he wanted Greyhound Bus Lines to send their entire fleet rather than launch an evacuation in public school buses.
"One of the briefings we had they were talking about getting, you know, public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people out of here," Nagin said.
"I'm like - you've got to be kidding me. This is a natural disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans."
WTF? Greyhound bus? Last I checked Greyhound was a corporation, what the hell is he saying? This guy was a mayor? Since Bush is an idiot what does that make him? Jeez :hammerhea

[Steve 1]

You get what you vote for in this case Nagin an Imbecile of the highest order who along RAT party lines would try to sieze private property and have others do his job.

[Blown 472]

You get what you vote for in this case Nagin an Imbecile of the highest order who along RAT party lines would try to sieze private property and have others do his job.
Where does it say "sieze private property"?? please stick to the topic at hand.

[steelcomp]

Can you imagine what NY would have been like if Rudy Juliani had reacted this way on 911? These wonderful, caring, humanitarian democrats, the poor black folk's best friend, have known for years this was going to happen.
That mayor should be in jail, along with the governor.

[Steve 1]

Where does it say "sieze private property"?? please stick to the topic at hand.
Bent 472 All that Sperm sprayed in your face today must have your tiny brain clogged; where is the part showing Greyhound bus lines is a Comrade of/owned /controlled by the Socialist state of Louisiana?

[Blown 472]

Bent 472 All that Sperm sprayed in your face today must have your tiny brain clogged; where is the part where Greyhound bus lines is part of/owned /controlled by the Socialist state of Louisiana?
By him asking for them to help he is siezing them? that is some strange logic you have there, ever had a rational thought in your life??

[Steve 1]

By him asking for them to help he is siezing them? that is some strange logic you have there, ever had a rational thought in your life??
Answer the question !

[bigq]

By him asking for them to help he is siezing them? that is some strange logic you have there, ever had a rational thought in your life??
I agree he never said sieze them. I just don't understand his logic. He has plenty of resources, why even say anything about Greyhound? Greyhound has nothing to do with the feds. He's trying to find a way out of his lack of responsibility and lackluster response the the emergency, just an all around odd statement. :notam:

[Poster X]

I started out in Nagle's corner. As this unfolds, more and more of his rash decisions (and lack thereof) will come back to haunt him. You can't pin it all on Nagle but he was a poor leader. The failure was on all three -- City, State and Federal levels. The thing to keep in mind is that the city has been there for 300 hundred years. No one really believed something this catastrophic would happen. Intellectuals had screamed for years that this would happen but their plea's fell on feaf ears. Now suddenly, everyone wants to pin it on Nagle? He obviously didn't take the storm seriously enough but then again, neither did FEMA and Homeland Security. If anything can be learned from this, it's that there needs to be a hotline any Mayor can call before and during a crisis to find someone that will walk him/her through every step of crisis management. Mayors are just people. They are not crisis managers, budget analysts or retired Generals. Homeland Security failed. FEMA needs to be reinstated to it's original status and the FBI and CIA need to be jointly funded to handle security and terrorist issues. Michael Chertoff can always get a job as a head hunter in the executive locator industry.

[steelcomp]

I started out in Nagle's corner. As this unfolds, more and more of his rash decisions (and lack thereof) will come back to haunt him. You can't pin it all on Nagle but he was a poor leader. The failure was on all three -- City, State and Federal levels. The thing to keep in mind is that the city has been there for 300 hundred years. No one really believed something this catastrophic would happen. Intellectuals had screamed for years that this would happen but their plea's fell on feaf ears. Now suddenly, everyone wants to pin it on Nagle? He obviously didn't take the storm seriously enough but then again, neither did FEMA and Homeland Security. If anything can be learned from this, it's that there needs to be a hotline any Mayor can call before and during a crisis to find someone that will walk him/her through every step of crisis management. Mayors are just people. They are not crisis managers, budget analysts or retired Generals. Homeland Security failed. FEMA needs to be reinstated to it's original status and the FBI and CIA need to be jointly funded to handle security and terrorist issues. Michael Chertoff can always get a job as a head hunter in the executive locator industry.
That's as bunch of lame BS. Tell that to Rudi Juliani.

[Poster X]

Rudy Gulliani is a professional politician that had instantaneous help by three or four federal institutions as well as a know result and a contained area of disaster. Different all together. You'll probably never figure that out but it is two completely different situations.

[Steve 1]

Demand Commandeer Steal so what all the same wanting to take something that is not YOURS... Makes no sense when a Kid 48 hours prior took a School bus and drove 70 people out of NO He should be Mayor!!!!!!!!!
The Incompetent Mr. Nagin then excused the criminals who were robbing drugs from pharmacies, because he said it was understandable that they had to feed their habits...
Liberal Politicians are useless and cannot think for themselves BTW what really was the reason he did not follow the evacuation plan in the first place? Can’t read or busy with a photo op the answer is he is just plain STUPID like the welfare class he represents...
http://images.uploadyourimages.com/402370a_dhbnly.jpg

[572Daytona]

What about the North East black outs? That covered a much larger area than this and was handled mostly by the local authorities.
What's ironic, is that after a week of almost every democrat in the country lobbing grenades at Bush and his administration, now that people are starting to take a closer look at the state and local government's role in this disaster, those same democrats are saying that it isn't fair to be pointing fingers. What a bunch of crybabies, they can dish it out but that can't take. To the best of my knowledge Bush, to his credit, has not once tried to deflect the blame either to state/local governments or people in his own administration. Here's a quote from some Louisiana senator that I've never heard of before now:
Sen. Mary Landrieu (news, bio, voting record), D-La., said officials at all levels eventually would share blame for an inadequate response, but she cited only the administration for the finger-pointing that followed the killer storm.
"While the president is saying that he wants to work together as a team, I think the White House operatives have a full court press on to blame state and local officials whether they're Republicans or Democrats. It's very unfortunate," she told CBS' "Face the Nation."
She said Washington was obligated to support local and state officials, "particularly in times of tragedy and stress, not to pile on them, not to make their suffering worse."

[Poster X]

Demand Commandeer Steal so what all the same wanting to take something that is not YOURS
I consulted some 8th graders and they couldn't make sense of that either. We have turned it over to the think take at Mrs. Gardners Pre School Utopia and they are deciphering it now. As soon a conclusive meaning can be determined, I'll get back to you.

[Poster X]

Why is it the entire Democratic populi can admit there were failures on all levels but you guys act like you're giving a kidney to Bill Clinton every time the federal government is mentioned? I didn't get the memo regarding the Federal Governments exemption from responsibility to it's people.

[Steve 1]

Small things from an X little mind!

[Just Tool'n]

Rudy Gulliani is a professional politician that had instantaneous help by three or four federal institutions as well as a know result and a contained area of disaster. Different all together. You'll probably never figure that out but it is two completely different situations.
The diffrence here is you look at NYC, People get down, roll up their sleeve's and get to work. This is the type of get it done mentality in NYC!
I reliaze this is a diffrent type of problem spread over I think 90,000 sq miles of the US.
People are getting in there too help, over this big of an area is more of a logistical nightmare. But I do believe there is more finger point going on than there should be, they should take that effort & put into something constrctive.

[Steve 1]

Nutcase X How long did it take the feds to come in down here after Andrew!

[Poster X]

Small things from an X little mind!
You're aren't helping the unibrow consortium very much with that rhetoric. Y'all sure you want him on your team? Maybe we should spot you a few victories to make it even?

[572Daytona]

Why is it the entire Democratic populi can admit there were failures on all levels but you guys act like you're giving a kidney to Bill Clinton every time the federal government is mentioned? I didn't get the memo regarding the Federal Governments exeption from responsibility to it's people.
Go ahead an find me a quote from prior to 9/1 where any high ranking democrat admitted there was a failure on anything other than the federal level. They are only now starting to take this posistion due to damage control. I've maintained all along that things could have been done better at all levels. Early on in all of this you were singing the praises of Nagin while ripping apart the feds, just like the rest of you liberals who get the same email fact sheet of what to say.

[Steve 1]

The sloping forehead Marxist X gang of Rats NOW that’s funny you screw-ups have never done anything right!

[Poster X]

The diffrence here is you look at NYC, People get down, roll up their sleeve's and get to work. This is the type of get it done mentality in NYC!
I reliaze this is a diffrent type of problem spread over I think 90,000 sq miles of the US.
People are getting in there too help, over this big of an area is more of a logistical nightmare. But I do believe there is more finger point going on than there should be, they should take that effort & put into something constrctive.
It's still two different things. New York at least HAD a population after 9/11 and their poor weren't affected thereby all economic policy could be directed in a linear disbursement.

[Poster X]

Go ahead an find me a quote from prior to 9/1 where any high ranking democrat admitted there was a failure on anything other than the federal level. They are only now starting to take this posistion due to damage control. I've maintained all along that things could have been done better at all levels. Early on in all of this you were singing the praises of Nagin while ripping apart the feds, just like the rest of you liberals who get the same email fact sheet of what to say.
Frankly, I have allowed facts to mold my opinion as they become clear. It's called an open mind. (That's the thing behind your unibrow where headaches live.)

[Steve 1]

News alert;New Yorkers are smart enough to live above sea level

[Poster X]

New Yorkers just happen to either have been born there or moved there due to work or some other extenuating circumstance. The same is true with any city. It's not likely anyone who was ever transferred to New Orleans said, "Wait a minute. Let me see where it's located according to sea level." It's also likely most people presumed a city of that size would exist as long as mankind existed. The only thing they should have considered that they didn't was the modern neocon's cold disregard for human life and inability to take responsibility for elected duties. Why do we have a government if not to protect us and abet us in times of misfortune? Based on the rhetoric oozing from the festering puss infected logic of the unibrow's on this site it is completely ok for the President and his staff to watch an entire State within the Union drown like rats without lifting a finger as long as they can say, "the Governor didn't invite us."

[Steve 1]

Hey Rat x one of your friends got killed:
Abu Zayd, identified as the current al Qaida in Iraq military Emir of Mosul, was killed in the raid.

[steelcomp]

It's still two different things. New York at least HAD a population after 9/11 and their poor weren't affected thereby all economic policy could be directed in a linear disbursement.
In comparison, Juliani acted in an instant, with NO warning what so ever, adn wasn't crying "now get your asses down here and fix this thing...booo hooo"...
It's about the attitude, not necessarily the actions, although the actions and effort are directly related to the attitude. BTW...the feds were on the scene after 911 in just the same amount of time as in Louisana. 911 was also a national threat, which had the feds jumping in other directions, trying to make sure an entire country was protected. While police and firemen were working 24/7 to save lives and help out in NY, they were runing for their lives and saying F this place, in fact doing a little looting themselves in LA. You're right...two completely different scenarios. One of conservative heroism, the other of plain ol' liberal, pass the buck, run and save your own ass, blame someone else. Like I said before, if you can't see that, you're clearly not interested in the truth.

[steelcomp]

New Yorkers just happen to either have been born there or moved there due to work or some other extenuating circumstance. The same is true with any city. It's not likely anyone who was ever transferred to New Orleans said, "Wait a minute. Let me see where it's located according to sea level." It's also likely most people presumed a city of that size would exist as long as mankind existed. The only thing they should have considered that they didn't was the modern neocon's cold disregard for human life and inability to take responsibility for elected duties. Why do we have a government if not to protect us and abet us in times of misfortune? Based on the rhetoric oozing from the festering puss infected logic of the unibrow's on this site it is completely ok for the President and his staff to watch an entire State within the Union drown like rats without lifting a finger as long as they can say, "the Governor didn't invite us."
Prove what you say is true.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Where does it say "sieze private property"?? please stick to the topic at hand.
It's in another one of these threads Blown, look it up. Nagel wanted PRES BUSH to SEND Greyhound busses. That means he wanted the Fed Govt. to SEIZE them, and SEND them to evacuate his city so he wouldn't have to.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

I started out in Nagle's corner. As this unfolds, more and more of his rash decisions (and lack thereof) will come back to haunt him. You can't pin it all on Nagle but he was a poor leader. The failure was on all three -- City, State and Federal levels. The thing to keep in mind is that the city has been there for 300 hundred years. No one really believed something this catastrophic would happen. Intellectuals had screamed for years that this would happen but their plea's fell on feaf ears. Now suddenly, everyone wants to pin it on Nagle? He obviously didn't take the storm seriously enough but then again, neither did FEMA and Homeland Security. If anything can be learned from this, it's that there needs to be a hotline any Mayor can call before and during a crisis to find someone that will walk him/her through every step of crisis management. Mayors are just people. They are not crisis managers, budget analysts or retired Generals. Homeland Security failed. FEMA needs to be reinstated to it's original status and the FBI and CIA need to be jointly funded to handle security and terrorist issues. Michael Chertoff can always get a job as a head hunter in the executive locator industry.
Somebody warn PosterXlax that he's starting to see this mess the same way the NAZI'S he accuses us of being do. Maybe he's becoming a NAzi. Maybe his brain is just waking up.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Rudy Gulliani is a professional politician that had instantaneous help by three or four federal institutions as well as a know result and a contained area of disaster. Different all together. You'll probably never figure that out but it is two completely different situations.
I wasn't aware that the NYPD and the NYFD were federal agencies. THAT is the only help available at 9AM 11Sep2005. Tell me just WHO helped Mr Guliani, and how. Don't bring up the Military, all they did was empty the skies and stand guard there to prevent any more "fly-ins".

[SmokinLowriderSS]

I consulted some 8th graders and they couldn't make sense of that either. We have turned it over to the think take at Mrs. Gardners Pre School Utopia and they are deciphering it now. As soon a conclusive meaning can be determined, I'll get back to you.
Note, 8th graders are the only people Posterxlax can sucessfully communicate with. The teacher must flummox him severely, to his eternal dismay.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Go ahead an find me a quote from prior to 9/1 where any high ranking democrat admitted there was a failure on anything other than the federal level. They are only now starting to take this posistion due to damage control. I've maintained all along that things could have been done better at all levels. Early on in all of this you were singing the praises of Nagin while ripping apart the feds, just like the rest of you liberals who get the same email fact sheet of what to say.
I seriously think you could make it to 9-5-05 without finding a word critical of either Nagan or Gov. Blasco.

[Poster X]

Most sensible people waited until the facts were in before they pointed a finger at Nagle or the Governor. It was (and is) easy to point a finger at Homeland Security because their sole responsibility is disaster prevention, coordination and relief. They did none of the three. The Mayors of Houston, Pascagula, Biloxi and Slidell were interviewd on TV last night. All agreed they were promised guidance and help from FEMA prior to (and after) the hurricane. All 3 admitted that FEMA had yet to get involved until just recently and even then... just slightly. They are doing things themselves and getting them done. This still does not forgive the Federal Government. Self reliance is a good thing. So is having a government you can depend on.

[Steve 1]

Based on the Law Rat Gov Blanco is legally liable. That is If lawsuits are filed !

[SmokinLowriderSS]

New Yorkers just happen to either have been born there or moved there due to work or some other extenuating circumstance. The same is true with any city. It's not likely anyone who was ever transferred to New Orleans said, "Wait a minute. Let me see where it's located according to sea level." It's also likely most people presumed a city of that size would exist as long as mankind existed. The only thing they should have considered that they didn't was the modern neocon's cold disregard for human life and inability to take responsibility for elected duties. Why do we have a government if not to protect us and abet us in times of misfortune? Based on the rhetoric oozing from the festering puss infected logic of the unibrow's on this site it is completely ok for the President and his staff to watch an entire State within the Union drown like rats without lifting a finger as long as they can say, "the Governor didn't invite us."
It matters not a single bit how high above or below sea level New Orleans was. What happens by having the city where it is is that the LOCAL AND STATE GOVERNMENTS ASSUME A GREATER RISK OF A BAD EVENT HAPPENING since the city is basically in a dangerous place. Thus, the local and state governments have to plan even better, work even harder, to insure no catastrophes happen, or to minimize the damage when one does.
Go back to the likely "most nailed state in the union", Florida. Is there ANY part of Florida that exceeds 1 HUNDRED feet above sea level? How many times a decade does Florida get nailed by a huricane? How many times was Florida hit last year? (4) How many times this year SO FAR? How many people have died from Florida huricanes? How many times have Florida cities (big ones like Miami) after a hurricane been subject to the destruction from the inside and complete social colapse after a hurricane? What protects Florida coastal cities from hurricanes other than being maybe 10 feet ABOVE water line (not a lot of help against a 20' storm surge).
Florida's highest point is in Britton Hill in Northern Walton County, a half-mile from the Alabama state line at 345-feet elevation, It's also the lowest, highest point of any state in the country.
Here's Miami hurricanes just since 1945:
15Sept1945 (120kt) # 711 Richmond Hts.
17Sept1947 (135kt) # 723 George
12Oct 1947 ( 75kt) # 727 King
05Oct 1948 (100kt) # 736
17Oct 1950 (105kt) # 761 H.King
27Aug 1964 ( 90kt) # 891 H.Cleo
08Sept1965 (110kt) # 901 H.Betsy
04Oct 1966 ( 75kt) # 913 H.Inez
24Aug 1992 (130kt) #1161 H.Andrew
15Oct 1999 ( 65kt) #1244 H.Irene
pALM BEACH SINCE 1949
26Aug 1949 (130kt) # 739 Delray Beach
18Oct 1950 ( 80kt) # 761 H.King
27Aug 1964 ( 85kt) # 891 H.Cleo
14Oct 1964 (110kt) # 897 H.Isbell
03Sept1979 ( 85kt) #1039 H.David
16Oct 1999 ( 65kt) #1244 H.Irene
05Sept2004 ( 90kt) #1311 H.Frances
25Sept2004 (100kt) #1320 H.Jeanne
Here's the HIGH-POINTS that have hit Florida just since 1960, the reccord-setters:
1960 - Hurricane Donna
Donna batters Florida, entire U.S. East Coast
After swiping the Florida Keys and striking land near Fort Myers on Sept. 10, 'Deadly Donna' did not travel along the usual path that storms of her magnitude usually take.
South Florida hurricane history
1964 -- Hurricane Cleo
The day the News didn't publish
Hurricane Cleo blasted Key Biscayne and then moved north along the state's coastline, following State Road 7 and passing over Miami, Opa-locka, West Hollywood and Fort Lauderdale. The hurricane caused massive flooding, structural damage and destruction of the citrus crop. It also prevented the Fort Lauderdale News from publishing -- for the only time in its history.
South Florida hurricane history
1965 - Hurricane Betsy
Bad Betsy changed direction
Hurricane Betsy was building strength; it looked like it was aiming for South Carolina, posing no threat to South Florida. But on Saturday, Sept. 4, the storm whirled to a stop, about 350 miles east of Jacksonville. When Betsy started moving again on Sunday, she had changed directions. The storm plowed through the Bahamas Monday night, then mauled South Florida a day later.
South Florida hurricane history
1992 - Hurricane Andrew
A 'modern-day apocalypse'
For 27 years, South Florida had been spared a severe hurricane. Then Andrew arrived, the most expensive natural disaster in U.S. history. Andrew wrecked more property than Hugo, Agnes and Betsy combined, with damages estimated at $25 billion. Twenty-three died.
South Florida hurricane history
2004 - Hurricane Frances
The size of Texas
Hurricane Frances, a sluggish and super-sized storm, may leave as its legacy a singular image: The entire state of Florida, 435 miles from Tallahassee to Key West, enveloped in rain and wind.
South Florida hurricane history
2004 - Hurricane Jeanne
The Last Storm of the Season
Hurricane Jeanne pushed across Florida, launching leftover storm debris, tearing apart weakened buildings, cutting power for millions, and leaving the nation's fourth most populous state dazed by relentless pounding from four hurricanes in six weeks. At least six people died during and after the storm.
Look how FEW people die in a Florida hurricane lately, in a state made almost entirely of SAND. In a state very close to seal level.
Florida has been FORCED by circumstance to develop outstanding plans for hurricanes for relief and recovery. Were I a politician who suddenly had to deal with the problem (like Louisiana LAST YEAR), to heck with some "collected resource in 1 location", it already EXISTS. It's called the State Capitol of Florida (generally found in Talahassee).
It must really burn Posterxlax that I keep using Steve1's state for a example, but the facts stand on their own. Fl gets hit more often, often first, often HARDER than any other state in the union. THEY have learned how to survive it, indeed, how to THRIVE in it. They are the closest thing to experts there could be without the actual title.
New Orleans was (I DO mean WAS (and will be again)) a functioning SLUM. Corruption, graft, rampant murder (check THAT out), most dangerous city to be in in the ENTIRE US. The Slumlords took, took, and kept giving away just enough to be able to keep taking, for decades (remember Fast Eddie?). But, like all rides, they come to an end somewhere, and New Orlean's ticket just got punched. When it came time to pay the piper, the government OF THE CITY AND STATE ABDICATED and bailed out on the poor who could not leave on their own. They bailed on the prison, they bailed on the hospitals, they bailed on the nursing homes, they bailed on EVERYONE (fortunately, about 80% of the people owned a car of some sort and could run on their own). It's bad enough that the Governor HAS US Mil (natl Guard) resources that are STILL NOT BEING USED. I know for a fact there are guard units that deployed the first week to help, that found NOBODY WANTED THEM, NOBODY HAD ANY TASKS FOR THEM, AND STILL HAVE NOTHING FOR THEM. There are guardsmen/women down there sitting on their buts waiting for orders, waiting for requests, and none are coming.
And, yet again posterdipsh!ttt ......... there are 2 ways, and 2 ways ONLY for the US Govt to send US Mil Personell into a STATE. Here it is (AGAIN):
1)-- If the GOVERNOR ASKS IN WRITING FOR ASSISTANCE (and the US mil cannot enforce laws (Posse Comitatus) (the Natl Guard can, UNLESS ACTIVATED UNDER TITLE 10 US CODE (which makes them US Mil-non-guard))
2)-- The INSURRECTION ACT --- if the gov of the STATE is either in rebellion OR UNABLE TO QUELL A REBELION then permission is not needed.
Just WHY PosterXtreemlyStupid do you keep IGNORING THIS??!?!!?!??!?!?!?!?
Here's a direct copy of THE INSURRECTION ACT. Read It. I left off the section on Guam/Virgin Islands.
Insurrection Act (US Code, Title 10, Sections 331-335)
US Code (Cornell Legal Information Institute) ^ | US Code (United States Congress)
Posted on 09/05/2005 4:40:15 AM PDT by BCrago66
§ 331. Federal aid for State governments
Whenever there is an insurrections in any State against its government, the President may, upon the request of its legislature or of its governor if the legislature cannot be convened, call into Federal service such of the militia of the other States, in the number requested by that State, and use such of the armed forces, as he considers necessary to suppress the insurrection.
§ 332. Use of militia and armed forces to enforce Federal authority
Whenever the President considers that unlawful obstructions, combinations, or assemblages, or rebellion against the authority of the United States, make it impracticable to enforce the laws of the United States in any State or Territory by the ordinary course of judicial proceedings, he may call into Federal service such of the militia of any State, and use such of the armed forces, as he considers necessary to enforce those laws or to suppress the rebellion.
§ 333. Interference with State and Federal law
The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy, if it—
(1) so hinders the execution of the laws of that State, and of the United States within the State, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or
(2) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.
In any situation covered by clause (1), the State shall be considered to have denied the equal protection of the laws secured by the Constitution.
§ 334. Proclamation to disperse
Whenever the President considers it necessary to use the militia or the armed forces under this chapter, he shall, by proclamation, immediately order the insurgents to disperse and retire peaceably to their abodes within a limited time.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

This from the Louisiana disaster plan, pg. 13, paragraph 5, dated 01/00: “The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating'...”

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Most sensible people waited until the facts were in before they pointed a finger at Nagle or the Governor. It was (and is) easy to point a finger at Homeland Security because their sole responsibility is disaster prevention, coordination and relief. They did none of the three. The Mayors of Houston, Pascagula, Biloxi and Slidell were interviewd on TV last night. All agreed they were promised guidance and help from FEMA prior to (and after) the hurricane. All 3 admitted that FEMA had yet to get involved until just recently and even then... just slightly. They are doing things themselves and getting them done. This still does not forgive the Federal Government. Self reliance is a good thing. So is having a government you can depend on.
HOLY SHYTTEE!!!!! I'm going to have to AGREE with a lot of this post!! (We're making progress folks) :D
The only question I must pose to you Poster_____ is this ..... Since all the "sensible" peopel waited till the facts began coming in, then just WHAT preytell to you call all the people who have been blaming the Federal Government and Pres Busch PERSONALLY ever since the 30th of AUGUST?

[Forkin' Crazy]

I not sure if I missed this in these many posts:
9/11 and Katrina in N.O.
9/11 - no warning... at least not a publicized one.
Katrina - several days to prepare and evacuate. Nagin and Blank O dropped the ball, period!!
Oh, Poster X, it's Mayor Ray Nagin

[SmokinLowriderSS]

While the governors of both Mississippi and Alabama put in a formal request for federal assistance before Katrina even made landfall, the governor of Louisiana refused to relinquish any of her power for the good of the people
The Department of Homeland Security can only work with the state and local officials in organizing relief efforts such as food, water, and shelter. There is no military arm of the Department of Homeland Security or the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), and the military is what was needed and everyone knew that.
Instead of asking why the Democratic leaders of Louisiana failed the people, these sites post disgusting pictures of floating bodies with the message: “George Bush did nothing.” The truth is, the Democratic governor wouldn’t allow Bush to do anything. That floating body belongs to Governor Blanco. She is the one who “did nothing.”
Roving bands of violent criminals quickly took control of the streets. While Mayor Nagin did declare martial law, it was a toothless declaration. The New Orleans police department was instantly overwhelmed. Many policemen just threw up their hands and walked off the job. Some joined the looters and were videotaped by MSNBC “shopping” in the local Walmart. The handful that was left on the job did their best but the best they could do was try to stay alive in a now lawless and dying city.
Because there was no one in charge, the initial rescue operations were feeble at best and there was chaos. The scope and magnitude of the disaster, which covers an area the size of Great Britain, still had not been realized by Governor Blanco who steadfastly refused to declare martial law and officially request that the federal government “send in the troops.”
It has come to light that all during the night on Friday, September 2, the president of the United States was forced to “negotiate” with Governor Blanco for the lives of the suffering and dying people of New Orleans. She feared that allowing the federal government to take control would make her administration appear as though it had failed. How she would be judged was more important to her than the lives of those people who were dying in the squalor. How many died as Blanco maneuvered to protect her reputation?
The Posse Comitatus Act prevents, by federal law, the president of the United States from sending federal troops into any state without the direct request of the elected governor of that state. A frustrated President Bush could only stand by and watch as the horror unfolded until he received the request for help. Despite the finger-pointing at President Bush, there was little that he could do until he was formally asked for assistance. No matter how loudly the liberals scream, they know full well that the president was helpless to do much of anything.
As the death toll rose and the animalistic behavior of some of those who chose to remain within the city became public knowledge, it was obvious that authorities needed to regain control. As the scenes from New Orleans, now a national disgrace, were being beamed around the world, a shameless Governor Blanco only cared about her own political image.
There is reason to believe that President Bush, running out of patience with Blanco by Saturday morning, used the only option that remained to him. It is being reported that Bush went around Blanco and utilized the Insurrection Act to federalize the National Guard and send in active military troops to take over the rescue and put down the lawlessness that had taken over New Orleans. The forces that Bush had poised to move into the city, swung into action. It was no accident that the major, organized rescues began when the sun came up on Saturday morning. At 6:30 AM, when the sky over New Orleans was suddenly filled with military helicopters and military convoys poured into the streets, they were there because of President Bush, not Governor Blanco.

[Poster X]

You all have a fantastic argument if it weren't for the fact Mississippi and Alabama's Governors followed protocol for preemptive participation by FEMA. They DID NOT receive Federal aid as promised or anywhere near a reasonable time frame. You can argue about New Orleans until you are blue in the face if you think that somehow distracts attention from your führer. It does not change the fact Homeland Security is ill prepared for any type of major terrorist act. They are just another bureaucratic road block that costs us money and in this case... lives.

[Poster X]

Oh, Poster X, it's Mayor Ray Nagin
I have a book of Nagle's art on my desk. Must be subliminal? Either way... I presume you figgered it out. :D

[572Daytona]

Most sensible people waited until the facts were in before they pointed a finger at Nagle or the Governor. It was (and is) easy to point a finger at Homeland Security
So you are basically saying it is sensible to jump to conclusions and blame the feds before any facts are known but not so the governor/mayor? Boy are you reaching. So just what fact or facts do you know now that changed your mind? Bascially the way I looked at it, early on it started to be clear that NO was not evacuated as it should have been prior to the hurricane making landfall (which as far as I know falls on the shoulders of the governor/mayor and parrish presidents. This is what caused the subsequent logistic nightmare for FEMA. Whether anyone in the local government conveyed to FEMA the extent of people that they would need to provide for remains unclear. As of only a few days ago Nagin was saying more than 10000 dead which doesn't look likely at this time, so he still has no freaking clue how many people didn't evacuate . As mentioned earlier major hurricanes have hit more populated areas i.e. Miami and homestead Fl, that also have many poor residents but FEMA never had to provide the support and security that they did for this hurricane.

[Poster X]

I concede that as this thing unravels Nagin is looking worserer and worserer. (made that up. Ought to drive you spell checkers crazy.) The Mayor and Governor had many responsibilities outside of the disaster itself. However, thay apparently did a bad job? Homeland Security has NO OTHER responsibility other than preparedness for just this scenario. They failed also. All three levels of government failed. Why you can't see that calls to question your blind allegiance to a political party. I blame Chertoff primarily and Brown secondarily. Bush hired them. Had Clinton hired them, I can GUARANTEE you would be on them like stink on shit.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

PosterXlax .......... If you wish to discuss Mississippi or Alabama, START A THREAD ON IT.
I could care less how poorly you try to spell.
I wish I had Posterfucstix for MY boss (or even better, in the FAA). I could misswire a plane all to hell, have it crash, locate what caused the electrical failure (they are THAT GOOD), and I as the electrician who did the work would be BLAME-FREE, so would my inspectors & supervisor. Now, the CEO of Learjet MIGHT get some heat (I don't even recall his name right now) but he'd sure be calling for the head of Bombardier's (my parent company) CEO Piere Boudin as directly responsible for my poor workmanship (I've only seen pictures of him).
As is, If I do lousy work, I can't get my jobs cleared, and if I cannot do good work, or get caught trying to hide bad work, I GET PUNISHED (dam, only been written up once in 10 yrs for a mistake on a $300 part, I take pride in doing a good job).

[Seadog]

It amazes me that PosserX sticks with the same old rhetoric that has little basis in fact. FEMA was slow at getting into the fray, but everyone wants FEMA to be the National Guard, military, Red Cross and everything else. FEMA coordinates efforts with numerous federal agencies. So if an agency goes into an area, they are going to say "We are from (insert agency here) and are here to help." They will rarely say they are from FEMA.
Within hours after Katrina went through, the Coast Guard was evacuating people from rooftops. Supplies and personnel were moving into locations. There are problems with the federal response, but not near the problems that occurred because the state and city agencies failed their responsibilities. If anyone paid attentioned to what I have been posting all along, it has been that the name calling by the democrats has been counterproductive. Only sleazeballs would make political hay out of a disaster of this magnitude. Names like Kennedy, Clinton and Lebrieux come to mind.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Prove what you say is true.
I'm with ya Steelcomp.
Posterx... back your self up. Prove the crap you alledge. I can back up every post I make, I usually do, because I am usually disproving some bullcrap you posted.
Start proving your points, I'm getting tired of your crap pi$$ant. We can talk, or you can walk, I don't care a whit.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

And the political hay started being cut & winrowed just about as soon as the rain stopped, ALL of it accusing the president of crap, NONE of it digging ANYWHERE.
NONE of it asking any strange questions about the lack of evacuations.
NONE asking why NOBODY AT STATE OR CITY LEVEL WAS DOING ANYTHING.
NONE Asking why, over 40 years, the levees had never been improved (or even well maintained).
NONE asking what was improved over last-year's trial hurricane evacuation plan-run-failure.
As problems developed, NONE asking what the STATE was doing ... only why the Feds hadn't miracled in a fix yet.

[Poster X]

I'm with ya Steelcomp.
Posterx... back your self up. Prove the crap you alledge. I can back up every post I make, I usually do, because I am usually disproving some bullcrap you posted.
Start proving your points, I'm getting tired of your crap pi$$ant. We can talk, or you can walk, I don't care a whit.
What point requires clarification for you? Will your Mommy read to you this late?

[steelcomp]

What point requires clarification for you? Will your Mommy read to you this late?
You know, you really need to just quit wasting time here. You just can't help yourself but to be an ass, can you? Stick with the issues. Quit the name calling and sarcasm. Give it a try, why dontcha.
Jeeeez, you're boring. :sleeping:

[SmokinLowriderSS]

He already bored me into being the ONLY object on my ignore list, oh well, had to hapen sooner or later. And to think, been here a couple years and never saw fit to ignore ANYONE before .... looser's are like that sometimes. One strolls in, becomes an annoyance, you beat on it a while, it just whines & whines, then you finally just get tired of it and ignore the pile of crap.
It leaves eventually, or it gets thrown out eventually, just for smelling the place up.

[Seadog]

The latest media evaluation states that the disaster response plan calls for mandatory evacuation three days before landfall. Nagin waited until 20 hours before to order the evacuation. FEMA is suppose to fill in where local support is inadequate, but first they have to be notified what areas need help.
I predict that the facts will support a finding of gross negligence on the city's level and just as bad response from the state. However, since it is a black community, Nagin will come out as a hero for blaming Bush.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Seadog, I sincerely wish I didn't have to agree with you, on ALL your points there. Alas, I am never living in the NO area tho, not a CHANCE.