Delta and Northwest both file chapter 11

[MOBrien]

what the hell? United, Delta, and Northwest are all in trouble??

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Yeah, and I gotta fly to Rhode Island on Delta in three weeks.

[rivercrazy]

Its pretty sad but if you consolidate all airlines and look their combined profit/loss over the last 25 years, they are in the red by lots of dollars....... Very tough industry. High operating costs and hugely capital intensive. And brutally competitive.

[Quality Time]

I hope not, my brother is a NW pilot :mad:

[Phat Matt]

I think that means Jen's dad who just retired from Delta loses like half of his pension. :(

[Essex29]

I think that means Jen's dad who just retired from Delta loses like half of his pension. :(
Now that really sucks!

[Phat Matt]

Now that really sucks!
I think he worked for them for 40+ years too.

[Havasu Hangin']

I wonder how much jet fuel has gone up these days? :idea:

[rivercrazy]

I remember when I worked for America West in the mid-80's that a one cent fuel price increase equated to $1 million a month in additional expense. And they were relatively small airline at that time (about 85 planes or so and all more modern fuel efficient short/medium haul aircraft)

[Jbb]

Post 911 it was just a matter of time ...This is Airline Deregulation come full circle......do you really think flying from LA to NY for $100.00 really is going to even cover the fuel cost to carry you there.....not..
It is really just an accounting move on Deltas part they have money...they want to re organize the way and the terms in which they have to pay it back...I have many friends at Delta and NWA...no ones pension is in jeopardy....
I sure do miss the airplanes...but not the business...
The airline business tends to run in cycles,always has...and it also is handcuffed to the economy and fuel prices.....
Thank your Islamic buddies abroad for the majority of todays issues......but that issue was covered in another thread

[Jbb]

I wonder how much jet fuel has gone up these days? :idea:
This much (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/energy/3347917)

[rivercrazy]

Did you work for an airline Brian? I did it for 3 years and had a blast. Pushed planes, threw bags, did weight & balance, etc. And got to fly anywhere for $5 each way. Went lots of places.......

[Jbb]

Did you work for an airline Brian? I did it for 3 years and had a blast. Pushed planes, threw bags, did weight & balance, etc. And got to fly anywhere for $5 each way. Went lots of places.......
I worked for the now defunct Eastern Airlines for 10 years...many many good memories.....and a few very bad ones...

[canuck1]

I worked for the now defunct Eastern Airlines for 10 years...many many good memories.....and a few very bad ones...
Wow....You actually worked

[boater72]

One of the reason they have done this now are the laws change Oct 17 for chapter 11.

[Jbb]

Wow....You actually worked
yep....just like now

[Sleek-Jet]

airline woes = de-regulation
The consumer still wants all the luxury and perks of pre de-regulation airlines at post de-regulation prices. Ain't gonna happen.

[Sleek-Jet]

Post 911 it was just a matter of time ...This is Airline Deregulation come full circle......do you really think flying from LA to NY for $100.00 really is going to even cover the fuel cost to carry you there.....not..
It is really just an accounting move on Deltas part they have money...they want to re organize the way and the terms in which they have to pay it back...I have many friends at Delta and NWA...no ones pension is in jeopardy....
I sure do miss the airplanes...but not the business...
The airline business tends to run in cycles,always has...and it also is handcuffed to the economy and fuel prices.....
Thank your Islamic buddies abroad for the majority of todays issues......but that issue was covered in another thread
Found this in one of the online newsletter I recieve:
Airlines' Retirees Pay Price For Bankruptcies
Delta, Northwest, Expected To Dump Pensions...
It's business as usual at Delta and Northwest Airlines despite their dramatic back-to-back bankruptcy filings on Wednesday and most employees and passengers would notice little, if any, difference in either operation. But for retired employees or the soon-to-be retired, it's a different story. One of the principal benefits of bankruptcy protection is the opportunity to ask a bankruptcy judge to allow the airline to walk away from the company pension plan. United did it earlier this year and some retirees saw their retirement incomes chopped in half or more in the blink of an eye. In fact, according to Air Transport World, the Northwest CEO admitted the airline filed for Chapter 11 protection on Sept. 14 to avoid making a $65 million pension fund payment on Sept. 15. Now the U.S. Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. (PBGC), which will likely be saddled with the under-funded pensions -- it got United's -- is crying foul, saying bankruptcy doesn't entitle the airlines to simply stop paying. The PBGC's Executive Director, Bradley Belt, said the airlines continue to be legally bound to make the payments. "Nothing in the bankruptcy code requires companies to skip their pension funding payments," Belt said. In United's case, it took a ruling from a judge that continuing to fund the pensions would make it impossible for the company to emerge from bankruptcy.
...Impact Will Vary...
According to the PBGC, Delta's employees will fare better than Northwest's, should those airlines obtain similar court permission to dump their pension plans. Delta's pension plan is under-funded by $10.6 billion and the PBGC would have to cover $8.4 billion of that, meaning Delta retirees would face a 20-percent cut in their checks if it were applied as a uniform cut across the board. Northwest's plan is $5.9 billion in the hole but only $2.8 billion will be picked up by PBGC, meaning the retired employees will absorb more than half the loss. The rules governing PBGC payments are particularly hard on pilots. Those who've already been there say it's not what they expected (or planned for) out of retirement. After United's pension debacle, Rep. George Miller (D-Calif.) conducted an online forum for those affected by the default and more than 2,000 people replied. "We have been overwhelmed -- both numerically and emotionally -- by the response," said Miller. The retirees told stories of losing homes, being unable to afford medical treatment and of hitting the bricks, in their 60s and 70s, to look for work. The PBGC guaranteed $45,000 a year for United employees who retired at age 65 and those who retired early pay dearly for it. Since airline pilots must retire at 60, the most they could draw from the newly configured pension plan was $28,000 a year, a cut in pension pay of 80 percent for some of that company's longest-serving pilots.
...As Lenders Line Up...
So, as Delta and Northwest get ready to walk away from their pension responsibilities and leave creditors in the lurch you'd think it would be difficult for them to borrow money. Not so. The country's most powerful financiers are lining up to hand over billions to the airlines to fund their emergence from bankruptcy. That's because they can cut a special deal that guarantees they're first in line to see their money return, stepping in front of others further down the queue who stand to lose more if the deal goes sour. "The reality is the lenders usually come out OK," Samuel Engel, a vice president with aviation consultant Simat Helliesen and Eichner, told the Chicago Tribune. There aren't many lenders with pockets that deep but JP Morgan Chase and Co. and Citigroup both have deals already done or pending. General Electric also lends to the airlines, not just for the windfall that is all but guaranteed when the loans are repaid. The collapse of one of the big airlines would flood the market with surplus airplanes and that wouldn't be good for GE's jet engine or aircraft leasing businesses. "They want to minimize the impact of aircraft being taken out of the market," James Harris, president of Seneca Financial Group, told the Tribune.
Hurry up kids and get in line for a fantastic high paying career in the aviation industry... :D

[Jbb]

Found this in one of the online newsletter I recieve:
Hurry up kids and get in line for a fantastic high paying career in the aviation industry... :D
The guys I spoke to said the only thing in jeopardy was their supplemental...mine evaporated...
PBGC will take good caree of them.....lol

[Sleek-Jet]

The guys I spoke to said the only thing in jeopardy was their supplemental...mine evaporated...
PBGC will take good caree of them.....lol
That'll teach ya.... :D
Judges still have to rule for them to walk away from the pensions... I'm guessing the news should come around Christmas time.

[Tom Brown]

I worked for the now defunct Eastern Airlines for 10 years...many many good memories.....and a few very bad ones...
I heard you were fired because they didn't like the look of your dash repairs and you installed a cooling inlet scoop backwards.

[Jbb]

I heard you were fired because they didn't like the look of your dash repairs and you installed a cooling inlet scoop backwards.
Your exactly right ....thankfully the Cobra people are not as harsh... :D