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View Full Version : Driveway from Hell . . . Question



ElimJim
05-09-2006, 11:43 AM
So my wife gets her dream house in Havasu, and I get this driveway to try and pull our boat up. We've had our current boat for about a year, trailer/boat weighing in around 3000-3500 lbs. Our two cars, 1997 4WD Expedition 5.4L and 2002 2WD Tundra, can both pull our boat up the driveway now, but it doesn't feel like either vehicle has a lot of HP left to spare. The boat we just ordered will weigh an additional 2200 lbs or so. I'm just curious with your guys experience pulling, thoughts about whether I can get 5000-5500 lbs up this driveway. The photo doesn't really do the driveway justice . . . it's steeper than it looks . . . I'd guess it's at least a 30% grade, and 120 ft long. If we find our current vehicles can't pull the new boat, what vehicle might make it? Is a diesel truck my only option (heh, other than finding storage)?
Thanks for any thoughts/insight you might have!

PHX ATC
05-09-2006, 11:45 AM
Back it up there (using the lower gears).

Sleek-Jet
05-09-2006, 11:47 AM
I'd drop the Expedition into low range 4X and give it a shot.
Yes, it's a dry surface, but it's only 120 feet, I don't think you'll wear out your running gear doing that once in a while.

tamalewagon
05-09-2006, 11:48 AM
Dig out a little boat storage down below! That's quite a grade!

ColeTR2
05-09-2006, 11:48 AM
put it in 4WD low it should just idle up

sigepmock
05-09-2006, 11:49 AM
Wow that's some driveway. Reverse is typically a low gear ratio and might do the trick for you. Is there a back way into the property, alley(SP?)?

Jyruiz
05-09-2006, 11:49 AM
Another problem I see is, if the new boat is on a longer trailer, the rear of the trailer might drag across the bottom.

JB in so cal
05-09-2006, 11:50 AM
weld an extra hitch reciever onto your front end; easier to move around as well

ElimJim
05-09-2006, 11:56 AM
Wow - you guys are fast - thanks for the replies.
Backing up isn't an option for me, as the new trailer will have surge brakes. There's no rear access to the home. I have thought about digging out a garage at street level, but I think the retaining wall alone would brake the bank. I haven't had to use 4WD low yet, so that's the ace up my sleeve. Guess I'll know in a couple months when the boat's done.
Thanks again!
Jim

hoolign
05-09-2006, 12:03 PM
Wow - you guys are fast - thanks for the replies.
Backing up isn't an option for me, as the new trailer will have surge brakes. There's no rear access to the home. I have thought about digging out a garage at street level, but I think the retaining wall alone would brake the bank. I haven't had to use 4WD low yet, so that's the ace up my sleeve. Guess I'll know in a couple months when the boat's done.
Thanks again!
Jim
Disengage them?

BOBALOO
05-09-2006, 12:05 PM
Wow - you guys are fast - thanks for the replies.
Backing up isn't an option for me, as the new trailer will have surge brakes. There's no rear access to the home. I have thought about digging out a garage at street level, but I think the retaining wall alone would brake the bank. I haven't had to use 4WD low yet, so that's the ace up my sleeve. Guess I'll know in a couple months when the boat's done.
Thanks again!
Jim
The surge brakes should have a lockout so you can back up. Or the really slick way to go is to have a solenoid installed near the trailer master cylinder that dumps the brake pressure back into the master while backing. no need to even get out of the Expy. 4 Lo should be fine for the new boat

Havasu_Dreamin
05-09-2006, 12:13 PM
That is the exact reason why more tuck unders need to be built in Havasu.....

Cole Sanger
05-09-2006, 12:30 PM
My trailer brakes (surge) disengage when I go into reverse. Don't all surge brakes do this?

Phat Matt
05-09-2006, 12:37 PM
My trailer brakes (surge) disengage when I go into reverse. Don't all surge brakes do this?
Yes, most of them do once you put it in reverse. His biggest problem I see will be the trailer scraping the ground while going forward or reverse.
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=13528

OutCole'd
05-09-2006, 12:40 PM
How about a long cable & winch system? :cool: :)

yamakazi
05-09-2006, 12:40 PM
Aaaah....I thought I was the only one that got to deal with a steep driveway and boat in Havasu. We actually installed a 220v 8000lb winch with some steel cable in the garage. I've used it to winch up the boat alone, but that gets a little nerve racking watching your boat go up alone. Never had any problems though. Usually, we use the winch to take the majority of the load off the trucks and use the truck as steering. If you don't think your vehicle can make the push, the winch will give you that extra little help you need. As far as the brakes, I just use a C-clamp to lock them out on the grade. I think I got the winch through a place called DavitMaster.

MagicMtnDan
05-09-2006, 12:41 PM
It's hard to imagine how your trailer will make the transition from the street to the steep driveway without dragging badly.
Good luck!

Havasu_Dreamin
05-09-2006, 12:42 PM
I agree. I would think anything much bigger thana 21 ft boat and the trailer will be scraping the driveway regardless of which way he goes.....
His biggest problem I see will be the trailer scraping the ground while going forward or reverse.
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=13528

Dave C
05-09-2006, 12:42 PM
damn, where do we sign up for mountain climbing tours of your driveway ;)

me4drvr
05-09-2006, 12:46 PM
Break out the yellow plastic and charge for the waterslide ....
If the drag becomes a problem, you can always build a 25' radius that will transition the grade to the straightaway, that'll still leave you 100' +/- of driveway up and back.... should only take about 5-7 yards of mud and some simple forms...

Phat Matt
05-09-2006, 12:46 PM
I see your solution. It's your neighbors lot across the street. :rollside:

OutCole'd
05-09-2006, 12:50 PM
How do you go to the street to get your mail? Cable car?

ColeTR2
05-09-2006, 12:58 PM
You could also put a receiver on the front of your 4x4 to plug a hitch into. Put it in 4WD low and push it up, it's a lot easier not looking over your shoulder, plus you will get better traction. There has to be some way to disable your surge brakes, your new bigger boat will probably have electric brakes which all you have to do is hook power to disable them. good luck

RiverDave
05-09-2006, 01:01 PM
How do you go to the street to get your mail? Cable car?
LMAO.. :D
RD

MagicMtnDan
05-09-2006, 01:05 PM
You could always make a new driveway diagonally across your property. While not cheap it will be much easier :cool:

ElimJim
05-09-2006, 01:09 PM
Ha, you guys are killin' me . . . . :)
Trailer dragging is a problem now, just on the way down, with our 19' boat. The new boat is 25'. It will be an extreme trailer with a prop guard and roller, tho I'm not sure how much that will help.
Yamakazi: I laughed when I saw your winch solution. We joked about that when we first saw the house. When using the winch, you're backing up the driveway?
And good to know there are ways to disable the brakes, if they don't disable automatically in reverse.
OutCole'd: good eye! Getting the mail takes good knees and dry pavement. But if you think getting the mail is bad, try taking out the trash! I have fallen on my rear a couple times trying to walk the rock-covered slope to pick out weeds. The things you don't think about when buying a house . . .

OutCole'd
05-09-2006, 01:14 PM
You could try to zig zag the drive way like that street in San Francisco, Lombard street or something like that.

JB in so cal
05-09-2006, 01:24 PM
You could try to zig zag the drive way like that street in San Francisco, Lombard street or something like that.
...like you don't know the name of a street in YOUR town. Homo!

bocco
05-09-2006, 01:24 PM
I would be a little more concerned about stopping on the way down.

SummitKarl
05-09-2006, 01:32 PM
weld an extra hitch reciever onto your front end; easier to move around as well
BINGO
trust me I cure this same problem for many out here with this trick.
FRONT HITCH WORKS GREAT!!!!!!!!!
if you want to try it first, let me know when your in town and you can try my truck

LakeTrash
05-09-2006, 01:46 PM
You will have no problem in low range.
Gearing is everything. My 6 speed Ford diesel will idle up a 30 degree ramp with 10,000 lbs as long as you use grandma gear.
LT

phebus
05-09-2006, 01:57 PM
If it ever snows in Hell, that will be a black diamond run :)

prosthogod
05-09-2006, 02:02 PM
You are all missing it. Sell the house. Buy one with a flat drive. I have one I'll sell you.

Mrs.Killer
05-09-2006, 02:16 PM
How can it be a dream house with a driveway from hell. I like the water slide idea :rollside:

SHIFTY
05-09-2006, 02:20 PM
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1873DrivewayS.jpg

hoolign
05-09-2006, 02:20 PM
How can it be a dream house with a driveway from hell. I like the water slide idea :rollside:
Bad dream?? :rollside:

duffster
05-09-2006, 02:22 PM
Careful reverse is typically a low gear but is usually the weakest gear.

ElimJim
05-09-2006, 02:25 PM
HER dream house, MY nightmare
and SHIFTY . . . . Nice! :)

pm069
05-09-2006, 02:26 PM
One word ...Helecopter. Did you lOOk at the house before you bought it?, and does your wife like the current boat. Looks to me she's trying to either eleminate you and/or the boat! Good luck.

TRIMM MANN
05-09-2006, 02:27 PM
Are you on Cabana? I think we are neighbors.

hoolign
05-09-2006, 02:31 PM
If it "EVER" snows there ....... :rolleyes:

Magic34
05-09-2006, 02:32 PM
So my wife gets her dream house in Havasu, and I get this driveway to try and pull our boat up. We've had our current boat for about a year, trailer/boat weighing in around 3000-3500 lbs. Our two cars, 1997 4WD Expedition 5.4L and 2002 2WD Tundra, can both pull our boat up the driveway now, but it doesn't feel like either vehicle has a lot of HP left to spare. The boat we just ordered will weigh an additional 2200 lbs or so. I'm just curious with your guys experience pulling, thoughts about whether I can get 5000-5500 lbs up this driveway. The photo doesn't really do the driveway justice . . . it's steeper than it looks . . . I'd guess it's at least a 30% grade, and 120 ft long. If we find our current vehicles can't pull the new boat, what vehicle might make it? Is a diesel truck my only option (heh, other than finding storage)?
Thanks for any thoughts/insight you might have!
Back the boat in and base jump back down to the street.

NeedlesNut
05-09-2006, 02:32 PM
Agree - Front Hitch Is The Ticket...works Great For Us.!

OutCole'd
05-09-2006, 02:34 PM
Back the boat in and base jump back down to the street.
Here is a video of him getting his mail.
Time to get the mail. (http://www.break.com/index/basejumpfly.html)

yamakazi
05-09-2006, 02:37 PM
Laughing at my poor winch! :D But...it works. My brother has used it to pull his Conquest( not the lightest boat) up the drive way. It easily pulls my 23' up the drive. I keep the car hooked up as a safety backup, a tap of the gas keeps it going up with the boat. Ok...back to laughing! :)

Captain Dan
05-09-2006, 02:39 PM
How do you go to the street to get your mail? Cable car?
What do you do when it snows?

Cole Trickle
05-09-2006, 02:42 PM
Hopefully Procomp or Fabtech makes a 9" lift kit for your new trailer!!! :crossx:
Scary part is you said it's worse than it looks :cry: :220v:

WaTchTheGelCoat
05-09-2006, 02:49 PM
DUDE!!! I wish I was a little kid with my big wheel on the driveway!!!!

NashvilleBound
05-09-2006, 02:58 PM
Driveway from hell is right. I would suggest taking the driveway from about half way down out and replacing it at an angle to the far side of the property giving you a much better approach and grade. I would never buy a house with a driveway like that......I have too many trailers.

Mandelon
05-09-2006, 03:11 PM
Do you have to back it up or can you go up it straight ahead? Turn around at the top? Low gear ought to get you up that, maybe lower the tire pressure a bit if the wheels spin.
I'd be worried if you moved the boat to the front and tried to push it up, then your rear wheels would spin, since the back of the truck would be light compared to the front....especially if it ever gets wet...
In either event, I demand you have someone with a video camera there when you try it for the first time.
Surge brakes can be locked out so they won't cause additional drag on the way up in reverse....but I'd hate to back a boat up that driveway....

duffster
05-09-2006, 03:20 PM
DUDE!!! I wish I was a little kid with my big wheel on the driveway!!!!
Or a "Green Michine". :crossx:

Outnumbered
05-09-2006, 03:34 PM
Ok, I have some experience with this from living in Lake Arrowhead. I used to have a TJ wrangler that had a front receiver. In 4-low I could push the 21' Lavey up my steep driveway that was over 100 feet long but was only steep like this one at the bottom. It was a piece of cake and you would be amazed at how eazy it is to get it in a tight spot. Point being that the little Jeep with 4-low has tons of torque to move it up. Your Ford will do fine in 4-low.
Your 4x4 in low is the only way to go. You are sure to fry a tranny/torque converter without 4-low.
Get a front receiver (they make them just for your truck) and a drop-hitch; as close to the ground as possible to improve your rear over-hang clearance.
You may have to bag the trailer to give it more clearance on the overhang.
Get some extra straps on your boat to keep it ON the trailer. Get a heavy duty winch strap. I would say you are lucky to have not lost a boat yet. The winch strap breaks and you are done.
Use 4-low to come DOWN also to help slow you down/crawl down the driveway.
Good luck.

Magic34
05-09-2006, 03:37 PM
The neighbors have a garage?

buzzaro
05-09-2006, 04:17 PM
Wow - you guys are fast - thanks for the replies.
Backing up isn't an option for me, as the new trailer will have surge brakes. There's no rear access to the home. I have thought about digging out a garage at street level, but I think the retaining wall alone would break the bank. I haven't had to use 4WD low yet, so that's the ace up my sleeve. Guess I'll know in a couple months when the boat's done.
Thanks again!
Jim
Depending on the trailer there might be an electric lock-out for the surge brake and 4wd-low will get you up that drive np forward or reverse, you might have a drag issue though with the steep approach angle.

ahhell
05-09-2006, 04:23 PM
How do you go to the street to get your mail? Cable car?
that looks like Angels flight in S.F....I'd get winded walking that sumbich :rolleyes:
I agree with Matt, the lot across the street looks open....and ALOT flatter

ElimJimsOtherHalf
05-09-2006, 09:10 PM
The house is a "dream" because of the 180 degree view of the lake from every room (and the breezes)...I made him test our current 19' boat before we bought the house...but you know boys and their toys...once he saw and heard what was out on Havasu...we had to get a BIGGER boat!

Forkin' Crazy
05-09-2006, 09:54 PM
If you use the four wheel drive, don't make sharp turns unless you have front end unlocked. But most new 4X4s don't have that feature anymore. A sharp turn will cause drive line wind up. Get it in too much of a bind, and you will see all the shiney parts that were in the transfer case all over the ground. Breaking a U joint would be better...lol
Sell the toy truck and buy a 3/4 ton. :rollside:
BTW Reverse gear in my trucks is faster than first. One I have will do 35 in R and the other will do faster then that... "Hey y'all, watch 'iss!" :220v:

ROZ
05-09-2006, 10:15 PM
Just build a drive through garage parallel to the street at the bottom of your property...

BajaMike
05-09-2006, 10:22 PM
For a boat that size (even without the extreme driveway) you absolutely need a 3/4 ton truck with a 4.10 rear end.....as you said, the trucks you have barely have the power with a 3K lb boat, and make sure the drop is plenty deep on the hitch, and you shouldn't have a problem going up front ways, or as some have said, get a front mounted hitch. Low range on a 4WD is a big plus.
I have overheated my truck a few times backing up a much shorter driveway in Havasu on a 110 degree day, the engine doesn't get much air when u back up, plus, you can weave around.
If the drop on your hitch leaves the ass end of the boat a little high on level ground, you won't have a problem.
:D
Must be a killer view and cool house....how about some pics of the house??

JetBoatRich
05-10-2006, 03:46 AM
You could also put a receiver on the front of your 4x4 to plug a hitch into. Put it in 4WD low and push it up, it's a lot easier not looking over your shoulder, plus you will get better traction. There has to be some way to disable your surge brakes, your new bigger boat will probably have electric brakes which all you have to do is hook power to disable them. good luck
Great suggestion :cool:

RitcheyRch
05-10-2006, 04:02 AM
I was thinking the same thing.
DUDE!!! I wish I was a little kid with my big wheel on the driveway!!!!

lawbreaker2
05-10-2006, 05:53 AM
Man, getting the mail does't seem to be the problem, It's getting back up that hill on a sat. morrning with a hangover :( And don't slip if your drunk one night getting out of your car, that looks like a long hard roll to the bottom. Maybe a underground garage down there.

Sherpa
05-10-2006, 06:10 AM
I see a few issues here;
1) there's no way in hell a true boater would buy that place... wife or not.
2) your expedition tranny/transfercase is going to explode on that driveway.
soon.
3) backing up is gonna be a HUGE strain on the front axle. they're just not
built for that much load... especially your expedition.
solutions: build a garage at street level.
SELL THE HOUSE.
sell the wife.... sorry, had to.
--Sherpa

MagicMtnDan
05-10-2006, 06:25 AM
For peace of mind, rent a storage unit for your boat (the idea of your winch strap breaking should be enough to convince you).
Problem resolved.

GRUNION
05-10-2006, 11:06 AM
Man Life Sucks, big house in havasu new boat wife and kids. Jeez whats this world coming too. :rollside: :)

2Driver
05-10-2006, 11:26 AM
I have thought about digging out a garage at street level, but I think the retaining wall alone would brake the bank.
By the time you are on your 3rd transmission you be saying, "$hit for all this I could of built a single garage at street level. :rollside:
I see coming down as big an issue. You may end up either being pushed out into the street by your boat or the surge brakes are going to be locked up going down.
The large older Spanish home just as Jamaica Blvd turns north has the exact same driveway. The owners used to drag a big Campbell cruiser up it with a Suburban. I know at least one time the tranny exploded mid way up. If you figure the weight of your boat/trailer then add to it the calculation for that incline you'll be adding a lot more actual towing weight.
At worse I'd be changing out the tranny fluid for some Synthetic and adding a tranny cooler if you don't already have one. Good luck and don't feel bad here's my driveway or at least the top half
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/506/2789DSC_0002-med.JPG

gmocnik
05-10-2006, 01:10 PM
just another vote for the front hitch. we did it for years at our home in arcadia, ca. disconnected on the street, flipped around and hooked up to front hitch, pushed the boat up and through the back of the garage. no issues...
also added industrial strength castors to the back of the trailer to roll it through the transition (also helped during normal trailering)....

Daytona19
05-10-2006, 01:16 PM
I had a 2002 Tundra and it was a great truck. When I went to a larger boat than my 19' daytona I did have some problems. I went and bought ( believe this or not) a 28' double decker pontoon boat with a 115 hp merc on it. I could pull the boat but had to actually lift the trailor toung with a hydraulic jack and have a hitch upside down and then set it on there so it wouldnt drag on the ground. So I would say at that grade and if you have suspension sag you may have a problem, I bet your trailer will drag up that incline. I dont think the truck will pull up the incline that bad in low range but if you find you loose major gas milage and you need to do to many things to pull your new boat it may be new truck time. I went to a super crew super duty 4x4 and have never looked back. It pulls awesome and I increased my pulling gas milage by 6 to 7 miles per gallon. Good luck in whatever you decide..

Magic34
05-10-2006, 02:45 PM
The house is a "dream" because of the 180 degree view of the lake from every room (and the breezes)...I made him test our current 19' boat before we bought the house...but you know boys and their toys...once he saw and heard what was out on Havasu...we had to get a BIGGER boat!
Ooppps. Another Mrs. enters the boards. Now you cant say anything in mens club without gettting in trouble. :rollside:

GunninGopher
05-10-2006, 06:54 PM
Just put in 2 - 4' retaining walls on the slope and park it there. You will add value to the home and you'll save your boat and truck a lot of damage.
Depending on the slope rate you'll end up grading about an 8 - 15' wide parking spot. Make sure to put it back from the driveway enough to let the parking drive rotate to level. Definitely build a lower wall to keep the boat away from the street and punk ass teens. If it is done right you won't have any dirt to bring in or haul away. You'll need to hire an engineer to design it and a contractor to build it. Since you have all the money in the world and you'll be pulling a couple of permits, you may as well put a garage over it.
Maybe a bed, too, in case you come home too drunk to make the hike up to the house or if your wife, who clearly wears the pants, decides she want's to kick you out of HER dream house :wink: :wink: :rollside:

GETSOME
05-10-2006, 07:06 PM
Why dont you put a bolt down a wench in the garage and pull it up. Get one that is rated at 10,000 pounds and mount wheels on the front of your trailer that you can turn. Easy as pie

phebus
05-10-2006, 07:10 PM
Just buy a crane, and put it in the backyard when your done with it. :)