View Full Version : So ... Mike's back? ...
BUSBY
10-09-2005, 11:10 PM
Well ... it seems like Mike isn't gonna be layin' low for long ...
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358Cyclone_011.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358Cyclone_013.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358Cyclone_014.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358Cyclone_016.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358Cyclone_017.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358Cyclone_026.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358Cyclone_028.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358Cyclone_029.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2358Cyclone_030.jpg
Taylorman
10-10-2005, 04:38 AM
What happened to his engine to have to rebuild it?
Busby, when you are doing the final cleaning of an engine before assembly, when you hose it off with water, how do you protect the cylinders and all other parts with bare metal from surface rust? Last time i built my motor, i did not know the proper way keep them bare metal from developing a light film of surface rust.
blown428fe
10-10-2005, 06:11 AM
What happened to his engine to have to rebuild it?
Busby, when you are doing the final cleaning of an engine before assembly, when you hose it off with water, how do you protect the cylinders and all other parts with bare metal from surface rust? Last time i built my motor, i did not know the proper way keep them bare metal from developing a light film of surface rust.
Yeah, What happened to the motor?
Dogballs
10-10-2005, 06:14 AM
Looks like you are back in business! Why the rebuild?
Kev-o
10-10-2005, 06:21 AM
great lookin mill, gotta love those AFR`s
BUSBY
10-10-2005, 08:41 AM
Well ... a roller lifter broke ... and metal went into the pan ... etc. etc. etc.
Mike (cyclone) was lucky enough to find out before too much damage was done ... we only started this Thursday evening ... it was a couple of busy days!
Kevin, we immediately take air and dry the block ... then I spray down the lifter galley w/ wd-40 & wipe the cylinders with oil (just a light coat) ... making sure that I don't get the paintable surfaces!
We are putting it in his boat this morning ... stay tuned for more pics ... :)
steelcomp
10-10-2005, 09:56 AM
Well ... a roller lifter broke ... and metal went into the pan ... etc. etc. etc.
Mike (cyclone) was lucky enough to find out before too much damage was done ... we only started this Thursday evening ... it was a couple of busy days!
Kevin, we immediately take air and dry the block ... then I spray down the lifter galley w/ wd-40 & wipe the cylinders with oil (just a light coat) ... making sure that I don't get the paintable surfaces!
We are putting it in his boat this morning ... stay tuned for more pics ... :)
I've found that after you rinse the block with water, even before you start blowing it dry, you spray everything w/ WD that you're concerned about. All the machined surfaces, Cyl's, main webs and saddles, lifter bores, decks, etc. Spray the heck out of it. Then blow it dry with compressed air. When you spray the WD, you can watch the water just run off. It immediately gets under the water and displaces it. Then, if you have a sudden interruption, like a thirst attack, :squiggle: you won't have to worry about bare metal for a few minutes. I never wipe cyl's with oil. :coffeycup
DeputyDawg
10-10-2005, 10:28 AM
originally posted by--BUSBY
Well ... a roller lifter broke ... and metal went into the pan ... etc. etc. etc.
The last two boat motors that I had parts failures had broken lifters. I switched over to running Isky Red Zone Max Endurance roller lifters and have had zero problems since.
cyclone
10-10-2005, 06:27 PM
Big time thanks to all my friends who've helped me get my engine back together. after a broken lifter roller played ping pong down in the bottom end. Tom Papp Racing, which tore the engine down while i was out of town and got it over to the machine shop. Dougan's Racing Engines for not only turning the parts around in 5 days, but also because the machine work was absolutely perfect. Brian Busby and family for allowing me to invade their garage, driveway, street and refrigerator and Brian in particular for putting his own boat aside while we worked on my stuff. And thanks to MikeF for saving the day on more than one occasion during the weekend.
Looks like I'll make the last NJBA race after all. Thanks!!
GasGuzzler
10-10-2005, 08:38 PM
Big time thanks to all my friends who've helped me get my engine back together. after a broken lifter roller played ping pong down in the bottom end. Tom Papp Racing, which tore the engine down while i was out of town and got it over to the machine shop. Dougan's Racing Engines for not only turning the parts around in 5 days, but also because the machine work was absolutely perfect. Brian Busby and family for allowing me to invade their garage, driveway, street and refrigerator and Brian in particular for putting his own boat aside while we worked on my stuff. And thanks to MikeF for saving the day on more than one occasion during the weekend.
Looks like I'll make the last NJBA race after all. Thanks!!
Next time........ :confused: Why not put a screen kit in to protect the bottom end?
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2027mil-23160-med.jpg
milodon pt# 23160 @ Summitt
BUSBY
10-10-2005, 08:54 PM
Brian Busby and family for allowing me to invade their garage, driveway, street and refrigerator and Brian in particular for putting his own boat aside while we worked on my stuff.
I just wish I had been able to finish helping out ... :(
And thanks to MikeF for saving the day on more than one occasion during the weekend.
Mike's the man! Without him ... you couldn't have made it happen! A good friend to have!
Glad to see you back in action Mike (cyclone) ... tell Jess that Gina was glad to meet her ...
Brian
moneysucker
10-11-2005, 01:00 AM
It has been a bad year for lifters in blower motors. I had the same problem and luckily the needle bearing was all that got loose and I did not run long. I lost a crank and that was about it.
Unchained
10-11-2005, 03:45 AM
I had a roller lifter go bad also a couple weeks ago. I noticed it first because the exhaust tone changed on one side. Checking the lash showed one was looser than the others.
I was able to fish it out with a wire with the intake on and replace the bad one to finish out the season.
I've noticed that the needle bearings want to eat their way up into the axles first and that's when you can catch it and replace it before any real bad damage takes place.
cyclone
10-11-2005, 07:12 AM
Next time........ :confused: Why not put a screen kit in to protect the bottom end?
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2027mil-23160-med.jpg
milodon pt# 23160 @ Summitt
a screen kit would not have stopped the lifter wheel from dropping into the bottom end. the lifter is below where the screen would mount. I have considered getting one anyways for other reasons but there just wasn't time. I'm trying to get the boat in the water this week to test some other things.
cyclone
10-11-2005, 07:14 AM
I just wish I had been able to finish helping out ... :(
Mike's the man! Without him ... you couldn't have made it happen! A good friend to have!
Glad to see you back in action Mike (cyclone) ... tell Jess that Gina was glad to meet her ...
Brian
thanks again. Tom called this morning and i think he found me a good pan. will know in a few hours.
cyclone
10-11-2005, 07:15 AM
I had a roller lifter go bad also a couple weeks ago. I noticed it first because the exhaust tone changed on one side. Checking the lash showed one was looser than the others.
I was able to fish it out with a wire with the intake on and replace the bad one to finish out the season.
I've noticed that the needle bearings want to eat their way up into the axles first and that's when you can catch it and replace it before any real bad damage takes place.
how did you get it out with the intake on the motor? im trying to picture that and cant figure it out.
cyclone
10-11-2005, 07:16 AM
It has been a bad year for lifters in blower motors. I had the same problem and luckily the needle bearing was all that got loose and I did not run long. I lost a crank and that was about it.
my crank was fine but the pieces of roller flew all over the place and dinged up the bottoms of the pistons. I got pretty lucky.
how did you get it out with the intake on the motor? im trying to picture that and cant figure it out.
What he said......... :confused:
Unchained
10-11-2005, 12:01 PM
how did you get it out with the intake on the motor? im trying to picture that and cant figure it out.
It will only work for the center four sets of lifters, unless you're real tricky.
With my Dart heads, in the middle where the manifold flange meets the head it leaves a large hole where you can see right into the void under the intake manifold.
I took two piece's of TIG welding wire and bent a sharp U in the end of it and fed it down through the pushrod holes of the bad lifter and you can pull the lifter assy right up out of the block. Then you take the same pieces of wire and fish it out though the hole in the head between the center two cylinders.
I took the center two pushrods out to get extra clearance.
There's plenty of clearance and it works real good.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/220lifter_access.jpg
Jet Hydro
10-11-2005, 12:52 PM
a screen kit would not have stopped the lifter wheel from dropping into the bottom end. No, but some good magnets Should have helped. I have 6 in my motor and they do their job well. I also have the screen kit and it has saved me a ton of money when I broke a spring.
Jet Hydro
10-11-2005, 12:54 PM
It will only work for the center four sets of lifters, unless you're real tricky.
With my Dart heads, in the middle where the manifold flange meets the head it leaves a large hole where you can see right into the void under the intake manifold.
I took two piece's of TIG welding wire and bent a sharp U in the end of it and fed it down through the pushrod holes of the bad lifter and you can pull the lifter assy right up out of the block. Then you take the same pieces of wire and fish it out though the hole in the head between the center two cylinders.
I took the center two pushrods out to get extra clearance.
There's plenty of clearance and it works real good.
I'll put up a picture when I get home.
I`v done this before and it does work well when you are at the races and dont have time to pull the motor down.
Good job guys, you guys kicked some ass in those few days, I was hoping to make it over, but I was either wrenching or at the river.
Stoked your gonna make it back to ming Mike. :)
cyclone
10-11-2005, 07:27 PM
well we lit the motor off tonight over at TPR and put a good tune on it. it was good to hear the familiar cackle. haven't heard it hit on all 7 in quite awhile. Everything checks out good and its ready for break in at Elsinore. Anyone down for an evening mission tomorrow or wednesday evening, say 6pm at the public ramp?????? :wink:
Willis
10-11-2005, 08:44 PM
Mike,
Make sure you check the speed rules and what part of the lake its ok to do it on
Willis
cyclone
10-11-2005, 08:57 PM
I plan on spending about an hour breaking her in gently. if all goes well then on the way back to the ramp i may break the speed limit but only for less than 9 seconds. :rollside: lol
steelcomp
10-11-2005, 09:09 PM
You can help avoid things like this if you keep a regular check on your lash, and valve springs. Checking your lask, like Unchained has testifird to, will tell you if things are going bad, adn losing spring pressure is usually what causes it. If it was an ex lifter on the blown deal, that's hard to blame on springs since the ex valve is trying to open against more cyl pressure than normal, but you can still keep an eye on lash changes.
Just my .02
Unchained...what, no girdle??? I would have thought you'd be runing shaft rockers, or at least a good girdle setup. :D
OMAHA 18
10-11-2005, 09:13 PM
girdles are really only good on high rpm tokeep everything together like jets are ony spinning 7250 not 9000.
steelcomp
10-11-2005, 09:21 PM
girdles are really only good on high rpm tokeep everything together like jets are ony spinning 7250 not 9000.
Like, girdles, especially on aluminum heads, are to help distribute harmful harmonics that can develope with heavy roller spring pressures. They also help prevent stud deflection, again, with alum. heads and high spring pressures that can translate into lost cam performance. They're really not for "high rpm" and besides, how many jets do you know turning only 7250 rpm?? :confused:
Just curious where you got your info. :rolleyes:
Unchained
10-12-2005, 03:32 AM
Unchained...what, no girdle??? I would have thought you'd be runing shaft rockers, or at least a good girdle setup. :D
I've been meaning to get them but I've been putting it off for 6 seasons now.
Haven't really had any problems without it.
I've dropped down to less cam and spring then I ran with the blower setup.
I want to have the cam reground to less lift and duration yet.
It's a .660 lift, duration is about 260 @.050, lobe cl is 116.
BUSBY
10-12-2005, 10:12 AM
i may break the speed limit but only for less than 9 seconds. :rollside: lol
:D :D :D something like 8.5 seconds? :D :D :D
cyclone
10-12-2005, 10:47 AM
something like that. :D
OMAHA 18
10-12-2005, 07:59 PM
steelcomp im not dissin im saying the thing is girdles were used back in the old days when the poly locks were not as strong as they are now. the 7250 number was just a figure of speech it was comparing it to the cars. yes as far as harmonics it is true to a point, go they never had the cylinder head geometry that we are abhle to come to now for the average racer. and if youre still having troble with them coming loooose use a breaker barto tighten them down i guess.
steelcomp
10-12-2005, 08:10 PM
steelcomp im not dissin im saying the thing is girdles were used back in the old days when the poly locks were not as strong as they are now. the 7250 number was just a figure of speech it was comparing it to the cars. yes as far as harmonics it is true to a point, go they never had the cylinder head geometry that we are abhle to come to now for the average racer. and if youre still having troble with them coming loooose use a breaker barto tighten them down i guess.
:confused: :confused:
Girdles used in the old days?? Geometry better today?
Huh??? Wha???
Who said anything about loose?
Never mind. You sound like you're reading too many Hot Rod magazine articles. :hammer2:
I just went in the garage and took my stud girdle off and threw it in the recycle bin. Apparently I dont need it.
Heard Cyclone went to test, how did it run Mike? 8.50 material? :jawdrop:
steelcomp
10-12-2005, 08:20 PM
I just went in the garage and took my stud girdle off and threw it in the recycle bin. Apparently I dont need it. LOL!!! :D
Give it up Mike. How'd it run???
OMAHA 18
10-12-2005, 08:23 PM
i guess if you need that so bad youmight as well go pick itout of the trash and youve never heard of valve angle geometry. maybe you should goback to herberts and ask the sales guy on youre next set of bolt on heads that you buy.
Too bad you pussed out on showing up at big river, we could have shown you just how shitty our stuff is.
OMAHA 18
10-12-2005, 08:31 PM
bro not atall sayingyou're stuff is bad at all ami not allowed tomakea arguable comment witout people getting there feelyweelings hurt. :frown:
steelcomp
10-12-2005, 08:33 PM
i guess if you need that so bad youmight as well go pick itout of the trash and youve never heard of valve angle geometry. maybe you should goback to herberts and ask the sales guy on youre next set of bolt on heads that you buy.
Hey junior,
You're kind of a troublemaker, aren't you?
10 posts, mostly talkin smack. You write like a third grader, but hey, maybe you know something we don't. Why don't you explain proper "valve angle geometry" to us so we can learn something? That would be so cool!!! :idea: :rollside:
Thanks! :D
OMAHA 18
10-12-2005, 08:57 PM
the short of it is, the cam delivering its motion to the intake and ex valves. basically youre tring to keep a perfect 90 degree angle so at full lift and full rest the tip is in the middle of the valve. as far as the writing my space is broke so i have to slam it and only 10 posts i have to start somewhere. every time i makea post you guys just bash anyways. if you would like to have a reasonable conv thats what im on this for i dont know about you.
cyclone
10-12-2005, 09:34 PM
Cant you all just get along? :D remember this thread is all about me dammit! :D
Chris- I did make it to the lake tonight just before dark. Drove around for about 15 minutess varing the rpm and then stood on it with travis in the boat for about 3 seconds before i came back to the ramp. Just long enough to get a peak rpm reading. motor sounds great and is running about where it did before the lifter broke.
The pump work and back cut shoe did drag the rpm down a bit so tomorrow night i'm going back with a different tune up and also some blocker. we'll see what happens...i'm a few hundred rpm away from my motor's sweet spot so im going to exhaust all the other possibilities before i consider cutting the impeller down.
Holehshot is still bueno. can't wait to see what kind of ET it will run once i get the motor dialed in.
WUTWZAT
10-13-2005, 06:04 AM
I never knew Mike was gone! But then again, where the hell have I been? :devil:
Welcome back Mike!!!
Jason
Right on mike, nothing like having your boat ready early.
Traylor is gonna have his hands full with that Ultra of yours in that 8.50 class.
:rollside: CS
cyclone
10-13-2005, 08:04 AM
Right on mike, nothing like having your boat ready early.
Traylor is gonna have his hands full with that Ultra of yours in that 8.50 class.
:rollside: CS
Jason- thanks.
Chris- i dont know about that. Launch controller still not working yet. that's the next project to fix before the race. I am going to put a fuel cell in the boat this time around and drain the saddle tanks. that should help the ET.
steelcomp
10-13-2005, 04:50 PM
the short of it is, the cam delivering its motion to the intake and ex valves. basically youre tring to keep a perfect 90 degree angle so at full lift and full rest the tip is in the middle of the valve. as far as the writing my space is broke so i have to slam it and only 10 posts i have to start somewhere. every time i makea post you guys just bash anyways. if you would like to have a reasonable conv thats what im on this for i dont know about you.
Clueless. :notam:
steelcomp
10-13-2005, 04:52 PM
Jason- thanks.
Chris- i dont know about that. Launch controller still not working yet. that's the next project to fix before the race. I am going to put a fuel cell in the boat this time around and drain the saddle tanks. that should help the ET.
Mike...glad you're back in the water...last time I saw you run, your boat was red!! I'm looking forward to seeing the new one haul a$$!! :D
cyclone
10-13-2005, 05:59 PM
Mike...glad you're back in the water...last time I saw you run, your boat was red!! I'm looking forward to seeing the new one haul a$$!! :D
Me too! the red boat was a blast but the new Ultra is so much more fun. i dont think I'd go back to a v-bottom now that i've raced a tunnel. I'll be pitted in the middle as usual so stop on by and say hello. Dont think i've ever met you but i do remember being on the rope when you and jeanyus ran river racer last year. good times. :shift:
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