CAT-5 question

[Outnumbered]

I'm not to sharp about networking so hopefully this is not a dumb question: I have an Qn-Q CAT-5 home network prewire in my house. Can I run phone and ethernet thru the same CAT-5 jack? I wanted to set up a computer and a phone in the same location.
Thanks

[Flashover]

Yes you can.... anything you can do with cat 3 you can also do with cat 5. :D All you should need is the phone line filters.

[SHAKEN Not Stirred]

Yep!
:)

[beach gomer]

why not do a cable modem?

[Creator]

why not do a cable modem?
The "Coax" cable only runs to the modem, from the modem to any of the network objects it is CAT-5.

[beach gomer]

coax is to the f-conn at the face plate. from that point is cat 5 350.100mgh

[Outnumbered]

The "Coax" cable only runs to the modem, from the modem to any of the network objects it is CAT-5.
Yep, its a cable modem. The CAT-5 is used to distribute from the On-Q. What filters would I use and where is the best place to get them? Best Buy, Frys, CompUSA?

[Flashover]

Yep, its a cable modem. The CAT-5 is used to distribute from the On-Q. What filters would I use and where is the best place to get them? Best Buy, Frys, CompUSA?
I got my phone line filters from my local phone company who is also my ISP. They just go inline either cat 3 or cat 5. :clover: :clover:

[Zeug]

Yep, its a cable modem. The CAT-5 is used to distribute from the On-Q. What filters would I use and where is the best place to get them? Best Buy, Frys, CompUSA?
Actually, Cat-5 is 4 Pair of wires. Your network uses only 2 Pair. You can run two phone lines on the other two pair.
Ethernet was designed to be able to supply a network and 2 phone lines in the early days as they thought that would be the future. Just separate out the two pairs for phone at the wall jack and run them to a separate phone jack. You can get a wall plate with one RJ-45 (network) and one RJ-11 (phone) at Home Depot.
Remember to keep your network pairs twisted within a half inch of your connections for optimum performance.
You can PM me if you have more questions.
Kent

[Outnumbered]

THanks for the help

[Racer277]

This guy is right.
pins 1,2,3, and 6 are the only ones used for Ethernet.
So you have two pairs of wire to use for anything else (within reason).
Your phone line only needs 1 pair.
Use the brown pair (white/brown, brown/white) to a seperate phone jack (center pins), you will be fine.
Actually, Cat-5 is 4 Pair of wires. Your network uses only 2 Pair. You can run two phone lines on the other two pair.
Ethernet was designed to be able to supply a network and 2 phone lines in the early days as they thought that would be the future. Just separate out the two pairs for phone at the wall jack and run them to a separate phone jack. You can get a wall plate with one RJ-45 (network) and one RJ-11 (phone) at Home Depot.
Remember to keep your network pairs twisted within a half inch of your connections for optimum performance.
You can PM me if you have more questions.
Kent

[Zeug]

This guy is right.
pins 1,2,3, and 6 are the only ones used for Ethernet.
So you have two pairs of wire to use for anything else (within reason).
Your phone line only needs 1 pair.
Use the brown pair (white/brown, brown/white) to a seperate phone jack (center pins), you will be fine.
Yep, I guess I could have mentioned what pairs to use for the phone! Details, details.........

[cdog]

Go and run around some alley ways in Mesa or Tempe. Quest uses that stuff as a temp. drop all the time due to their shitty service.You may put someone out of service but they'll never know if it was a car that picked it up or not. I probably laid a couple of mile's of that stuff in my day as a contractor in the phoenix area back in the late 90's. Alot of the Quest guy's are even to lazy to pick up the cat5 temp drop after they restore the baried drop. Just go on a hunt!

[Outnumbered]

OK, I started on this project today. I want to have the router and cable modem in the OnQ panel and distribute to each room using the hard-wired Cat-5. A few questions:
1) Here is a pic of the OnQ panel. The 8 pair in slot labled "LINE" comes in from the outside phone box. Each numbered 8-pair block to the right of that one is a home run to a room that terminates in a RJ-45 jack that is wired 568-A.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/973DSCN1007.JPG
Can I pull off the green and orange pairs and spice them into a short run of Cat-5 that terminates to a RJ-45 to my router (this would be RJ-45 on router end and pig-tail with jelly splices into the home-run)? This way the other two pair (blue and brown) can still carry two phone lines to each RJ-45 jack. I know it is possible but I read that you should not splice Cat-5 or you will loose signal and get cross-talk. With this OnQ set-up, I cannot see any other way to do it without going DSL.
2) I found out that the house is wired 568-A which I guess is typical in new homes. The Patch cords in the stores are wired 568-B. What should I do?
Thanks for the help, I did not realize this would be so complicated.

[bigq]

With the A you can use the brown and blue for phone line and the other for data. I would go get the plate also with the RJ-11 and RJ-45 ports and use those. Just tap the line at the block would be the cleanest way.
A or B will work the difference is the sequence. They use A in house because the sequence is closer to telco lines, (green and orange are reversed is all)

[H2OT TIMES]

568A or 568B? Doesn't really matter which you use but, pick one and do evrything that way. It is true that you shouldn't splice cat5, however if you don't have a butt load of computers in your house you can probably get away with it.

[Outnumbered]

568A or 568B? Doesn't really matter which you use but, pick one and do evrything that way. It is true that you shouldn't splice cat5, however if you don't have a butt load of computers in your house you can probably get away with it.
The whole house is 568A. But all the patch cables at the stores are Cat5e 568B. So can I jack one of these 568B cables from the wall to my computer or do I need to hunt down 568A patch cords?

[bigq]

Does not matter they are interchangable. the data does not care about the sequence only that copper is there. :) The only thing you need to watch on the patch is make sure it is not a cross over, which it shoul clearly state.

[Outnumbered]

Cool. Thanks. So you think I will be OK pulling off those punched Greens and Oranges and splicing in? It just seems kind of hokey. The only other option I see would be to pull that whole rack out, terminate all the home runs in RJ45 and put in a RJ45 block to splice my router into. That seems like a pain in the ass for two computers and one router that I would rather not do.

[KLEPTOW]

IP Phones and leave it all they way it is.
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/phones/ps379/index.html

[bigq]

Cool. Thanks. So you think I will be OK pulling off those punched Greens and Oranges and splicing in? It just seems kind of hokey. The only other option I see would be to pull that whole rack out, terminate all the home runs in RJ45 and put in a RJ45 block to splice my router into. That seems like a pain in the ass for two computers and one router that I would rather not do.
I really don't know enough about the home systems. I assume the telco lines have a run from the same location as the data runs. If that is the case I would just punch down the telco line to the run you want and put on new RJ-45 and RJ-11 connectors at the port end in the room with the computer and the phone. Otherwise I guess you will need to pull the two wires you need and splice.

[Outnumbered]

IP Phones and leave it all they way it is.
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/phones/ps379/index.html
I had a small system like that in one of my offices at one time and it was over $3,500. The system would be sweet but it is way overkill for what I am trying to do.

[KLEPTOW]

I would do a serach on IP phones, I'll bet you will be able to find other brands a lot cheaper.
Fact is Nortel is way ahead of Cisco in the voice over IP world, And there is a shit load of Nortel stuff out there.

[Zeug]

Does not matter they are interchangable. the data does not care about the sequence only that copper is there. :) The only thing you need to watch on the patch is make sure it is not a cross over, which it shoul clearly state.
To add to this: As long as both ends of a cable are wired to the same standard, A or B, you will be fine. You can use a patch cable with B standard on a home wired with A.
Do not punch down a run at your box on B standard and have it connected at the wall on A. Then you will be screwed.
It also DOES matter which wires are used in a run. You cannot make up your own standard. On longer runs or faster speeds, the twisting shields the cable and protects the bandwidth. If you randomly pick two pair that dont have the same relationship in twist as they were designed to have, you will be way slow. Trust me. Seen it before. :220v:

[Outnumbered]

I would do a serach on IP phones, I'll bet you will be able to find other brands a lot cheaper.
Fact is Nortel is way ahead of Cisco in the voice over IP world, And there is a shit load of Nortel stuff out there.
That is what we had, a Nortel system. The stuff is not cheap. It works great but you pay for it.

[Outnumbered]

To add to this: As long as both ends of a cable are wired to the same standard, A or B, you will be fine. You can use a patch cable with B standard on a home wired with A.
Do not punch down a run at your box on B standard and have it connected at the wall on A. Then you will be screwed.
It also DOES matter which wires are used in a run. You cannot make up your own standard. On longer runs or faster speeds, the twisting shields the cable and protects the bandwidth. If you randomly pick two pair that dont have the same relationship in twist as they were designed to have, you will be way slow. Trust me. Seen it before. :220v:
Thanks Zeug. I think I have that part of it down. The problem I have now is that I cannot punch-down my splices for my router-to-room runs. I would have to pull off the punched Green and Orange pairs and spice them OFF OF the punch down block. This is because the punch-down block is a Telco block where all of the home runs are connected. I need them to be isolated for my router to work correctly. I was just concerned about the splice in the line. What is your opinion on this?
Thanks

[bigq]

Zeug brings up some good points about the pairs, make sure to use the the "twisted pair" and not one from each twisted pair. Personally I would make a seperate run for the telco line, but I am anal that way.
I don't understand what you are doing with the router. Don't they have a patch panel in the wiring closet?

[Outnumbered]

Zeug brings up some good points about the pairs, make sure to use the the "twisted pair" and not one from each twisted pair. Personally I would make a seperate run for the telco line, but I am anal that way.
I don't understand what you are doing with the router. Don't they have a patch panel in the wiring closet?
No patch panel. The set-up is not really geared for a LAN network, its geared for a DSL/WAN. They don't offer DSL here so who knows why they put this thing in. Its only real bonus is that you can have 4 phone lines in any location--woo-hoo!

[bigq]

Yea I looked it up and get it now. It would work for cable also or dial up even. It is a LAN and if you have what I was looking at it is a patch panel..er home type anyway. Sounds like you know what to now anyway so good luck. :)

[Zeug]

Thanks Zeug. I think I have that part of it down. The problem I have now is that I cannot punch-down my splices for my router-to-room runs. I would have to pull off the punched Green and Orange pairs and spice them OFF OF the punch down block. This is because the punch-down block is a Telco block where all of the home runs are connected. I need them to be isolated for my router to work correctly. I was just concerned about the splice in the line. What is your opinion on this?
Thanks
What you need is a wall mounted patch panel. Connect all your Cat-5 runs to the patch panel via punchdown. Then use patch cables to connect your router to the RJ-45s on the patch panel you want to have internet only.
For Phone only to a location make a patch cable with one end RJ-45 for the patch panel and the other punch down onto your telco block.
For phone and network on the same Cat5 wall run, you can separate the phone pairs out of the cat5 run when you punch down to the patch panel and bring them to the next connector and use it like the phone only above. This way the cat5 from your wall splits to two jacks that are indepenant of eachother. Make sure the cable is closer to the network punchdown for performance. The phone pairs can go on thier own untwisted if needed and be fine. Then just connect like the above versions. That is how i have done it in the past. Perfectly acceptable solution.
Black box sells a wall mount patch panel but they are $150 bones or so. Ebay or Web you could prolly get one for $50. Not a complicated piece of equiptment.
http://blackbox.com/images/moreviews1/jpm085apc2.jpg
Black Box Patch Panel (http://blackbox.com/Catalog/Detail.aspx?cid=45,646,890&mid=182)

[bigq]

What you need is a wall mounted patch panel. Connect all your Cat-5 runs to the patch panel via punchdown. Then use patch cables to connect your router to the RJ-45s on the patch panel you want to have internet only.
For Phone only to a location make a patch cable with one end RJ-45 for the patch panel and the other punch down onto your telco block.
For phone and network on the same Cat5 wall run, you can separate the phone pairs out of the cat5 run when you punch down to the patch panel and bring them to the next connector and use it like the phone only above. This way the cat5 from your wall splits to two jacks that are indepenant of eachother. Make sure the cable is closer to the network punchdown for performance. The phone pairs can go on thier own untwisted if needed and be fine. Then just connect like the above versions. That is how i have done it in the past. Perfectly acceptable solution.
Black box sells a wall mount patch panel but they are $150 bones or so. Ebay or Web you could prolly get one for $50. Not a complicated piece of equiptment.
http://blackbox.com/images/moreviews1/jpm085apc2.jpg
Black Box Patch Panel (http://blackbox.com/Catalog/Detail.aspx?cid=45,646,890&mid=182)
Hey... that's is a nice piece there. :D

[Outnumbered]

That looks great. Thanks for the help. I was afraid I would have to scap this POS. It would be a lot of work but I am sure it would turn out much better. I am going to try my hokey patch and see if it works, if not I will be ordering up one of these.

[Zeug]

dont scrap the one you have. Use it to terminate your outside lines and run your patch cables from the new panel to it.
Here is a black box unit on ebay buy it now for $25. (http://cgi.ebay.com/Blackbox-24-Port-Wall-Mount-CAT5-Patch-Panel_W0QQitemZ5829886679QQcategoryZ44992QQssPageN ameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

[Outnumbered]

dont scrap the one you have. Use it to terminate your outside lines and run your patch cables from the new panel to it.
Here is a black box unit on ebay buy it now for $25. (http://cgi.ebay.com/Blackbox-24-Port-Wall-Mount-CAT5-Patch-Panel_W0QQitemZ5829886679QQcategoryZ44992QQssPageN ameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
How funny, I was just looking at that. Thanks again for your help!

[wanna B V]

[QUOTE=Zeug]Actually, Cat-5 is 4 Pair of wires. Your network uses only 2 Pair. You can run two phone lines on the other two pair.
If you do it this way you run the chance of inductive crosstalk. High speed needs to be in a seperate cable from dial tones-especially if you are using one as a fax.