adding more boost..have ?'s.

[cyclone]

motor: tall deck 572 cid Chevy, AFR315cnc heads, JE 8.8:1 static cr pistons, lunati crank, 8-71 Weiand huffer, Superchiller innerecooler, holley 1000cfm HP series carbs. Cam is custom mechanical roller .680/.687 260 at .050 Comp Cam.
motor has a really flat power curve that peaks at 6,300 rpm. From 6,100-6,500 rpm motor only varies 12 hp up or down.
currently running a 43t 8mm top pulley and 52t lower pulley. blower is making 7.5 psi.
I have a 1600-75 belt and its stretched to the max. Can't adjust pulley size to make more boost and to be honest i think i'm spinning the blower to fast now anyway.
Was thinking of going to a 10-71 and dominator carbs. i'd like to put 10 psi to the motor and was wondering if 0-ringing the block is necessary? What will the additional boost do to the peak power number? will it move the the curve upward?
right now the engine is matched perfectly to my jet boat's impeller and turning 6,350 in the boat. would like to see 6,700-6,800 rpm after adding more boost. what do you guys think?

[Cs19]

motor: tall deck 572 cid Chevy, AFR315cnc heads, JE 8.8:1 static cr pistons, lunati crank, 8-71 Weiand huffer, Superchiller innerecooler, holley 1000cfm HP series carbs. Cam is custom mechanical roller .680/.687 260 at .050 Comp Cam.
dont lie. :cool:

[cyclone]

me? never.

[TIMINATOR]

Raising the boost will allow you to rev higher,it won't require it. The HP will rise everywhere in the power curve,assuming that the blower isn't out of its efficiency range(thats where additional overdrive only creates heat,not usable boost). In my humble opinion, going to a 10-71 is a waste of cash, the change will usually only net about 2-3 lbs of boost. A 14-71 spun slower will heat the air less and provide as much boost as you can probably stand. Looks much cooler too! Comparing my 8-71 to my 14-71 on my 572 or 565, there is about 40 degrees cooler air, and I can run only 7% over to get the same boost as 32% with the 8-71. Fel-pro 'o'ring gaskets are good to about 17 lbs, with no detonation, and a flat deck and head surface(CBN diamond milled). TIMINATOR

[BUSBY]

Well ... my opinion ... bigger is always better, your supercharger is a street supercharger ... not built for race ... Weiands (as you know) are out of the box blowers with bores that are never close to being true. You have a superchiller that takes a lot of ari and your running that blower at 21% over ... you're spinning the crap out of it to make 7.5 lbs of boost. When you spin them that hard and only get that boost, you've got heated air and you'll loose power there ...
Your cubes = 1471, black anodized rotors with strips. Yes a stripped rotor bolwer ... you could run it at 10% and get an honest 8 lbs of boost that isn't a heated charge ... this would result in more HP due to a cooler charge.
An 871 has 16" rotors I bleive and a 1471 has 19" rotors ... so you figure that that extra 3" will equate to a lot more air ... so you can turn it slower ... and make more HP.
A 1071 would definately help ... but with your size engine ... I would step up. but I think I've already had that conversation w/ you. :D
Glad to hear that you're looking to move up ... call Willis ... get his 1071 or even better, his 1471 ... a perfect set up for you!

[Cs19]

How much weight will the 10 add? What about a 14?
Dont lie Mike, I heard your full of shit when it comes to your motor. :p

[BUSBY]

Well his blower is pretty heavy already. The casting on the Weiands is based on an original GM casting ... really thick. The redesigned casings for performance blowers took a lot of that out ... he's only looking about 15 to 20 lbs different if that.

[cyclone]

How much weight will the 10 add? What about a 14?
Dont lie Mike, I heard your full of shit when it comes to your motor. :p
i heard the same about you but i knew better.

[cyclone]

Well his blower is pretty heavy already. The casting on the Weiands is based on an original GM casting ... really thick. The redesigned casings for performance blowers took a lot of that out ... he's only looking about 15 to 20 lbs different if that.
i think i'll take the chiller off at the races and that will offset the weight difference between the 8 and 14.
Then again i heard willis practically melted his blower on sunday from running back to back passes. Someone said it got so hot that it locked up?

[Unchained]

Well.....my opinion.....I guess you already know it :D

[BUSBY]

i think i'll take the chiller off at the races and that will offset the weight difference between the 8 and 14.
In that case ... let's get that injector hat and really go racing! You could keep the carb set up w/ the Weiand like I said for the river ... and get a injector w/ blower for the races ... best of both worlds, right?
Just kidding ... it is a good idea ... but you need different belts then as well ... worth it IMO ...
Then again i heard willis practically melted his blower on sunday from running back to back passes. Someone said it got so hot that it locked up?
I didn't hear that ... but that would suck if true. A new polished 1471 from Littlefield is $2750 ... snout is about $375 ... carb plate is around $125 ... under $3500 ... all new stuff ... good to go. I ran a stripped blower on the river with out having any problems ... I think Willis is having other issues ... which he says will be rectified soon with a bigger huffer ... :confused:

[superdave013]

I'm with Busby on ditchin those carbs. I'd keep the chiller with the 14 but that's just me. The one you have will work but will need to be opened up on the mill a bit.
BTW, you still have one blower pulley of mine I'm thinkin.
A 14-71 will make more boost turning slower. That will = less heat and that = even more power. :D

[BUSBY]

A 14-71 will make more boost turning slower. That will = less heat and that = even more power. :D
Yup yup! Ditch those carbs! Get Big Blower! Go Even Faster! :D

[promod]

once you run injection will think carbs have to do with body fat :idea:

[Cs19]

but cyclone wants his boat to start. :)
If it were me and I had michael's funds Id shit can all that stuff and get some big chiefs, sheet metal manifold and a pair of dommys with a 250 shot just in case. :)
Cs stirrin the pot 19.

[BUSBY]

oh, you had to go there ...

[cyclone]

of course he went there. he's gotten a wee bit cocky since he sent nelson packing for home on sunday. lol :D

[BUSBY]

yeah ... but he's been playin' all year with set up, you just came out there ... wait till you figure yours out!
:D

[cyclone]

yup. i've got plenty of time to chase the set up thisi winter. i'll tell you what-the launch control helped a bunch. im a believer now for sure.

[MikeF]

How much weight will the 10 add? What about a 14?
Dont lie Mike, I heard your full of shit when it comes to your motor. :p
I was thinkin the future modifications to the block would offset the extra weight of the 14/71! :mix:

[Cs19]

Na, Nelson is an easy customer every time, hardly an ego builder there. I was really pumped to go some rounds though.Bummed on the gotdamn runner up though, I always choke in the finals, thats the 4th time now. :220v:
Only playin' on the starting comment Brian, I got loads of respect for anyone running big numbers lilke that in a daytona wether it starts or not.
whens lamppost round 1?
CS

[MikeF]

whens lamppost?
Count me in. We can walk home if we get too polluted. :)

[Cs19]

yeah ... but he's been playin' all year with set up, you just came out there ... wait till you figure yours out!
:D
Lets just pray that NOS in the brackets deal goes through so I can keep up.Wonder what ill run with 1000 plus Hp like Mike's got? :confused: No point in trying to chase someone when your down over 200 hp.
stir stir stiir

[cyclone]

you don't want to chase me chrissy. i'm small potatoes with my garage built blower motor. besides if you get n20 to keep up with me then you know what i'll do and things will just keep escalating until we run out of money, bag racing boats altogether, and end up taking our battle to the local golf n' stuff go kart track. we'll get kicked out of that place for racing in the wrong direction, arrested for brake checking unknowing bystanders and finally land in jail for a night of bench racing and defensive cell sitting. nobody wants that, especially not the kids at the go kart track. ;)

[Cs19]

Mike, just plan on running out of money then. :D

[cyclone]

and so it begins.......... :cool:

[BUSBY]

whens lamppost round 1?
Next Moday night ???

[BUSBY]

and so it begins.......... :cool:
Should I get my other toes ready? :D

[Cs19]

Ill havta remember to watch my toes tomorrow, mines coming out first thing in the morning.
Ya if it works for you guys Im all over it next Monday.

[MikeF]

Sounds OK :cool:

[BUSBY]

5:30 - 5:45 Lampost Pizza @ Culver & Walnut for 6pm kick off?
I'm in!

[cyclone]

i'm down.

[MAXIMUS]

Well Cyclone I can give you a comparison that might answer your first question. I was running my 14 at 28% under on my 540 with a "real" hat ( :D ) and was making right around 6 psi of boost at 6100-6300 depending on air conditions. That was with a legend stainless steel hand massaged "Jack" impeller!. I am now running my blower about 13% under & making 9 psi of boost & I am able to spin the same impeller from 6300 to 6500+ depending on the air. Of course it has a lot more attitude all the way around... :messedup:

[cyclone]

MAXI- what kind of speed did you pick up with the extra rpm? you got a vdrive right?

[BUSBY]

Well Cyclone I can give you a comparison that might answer your first question. I was running my 14 at 28% under on my 540 with a "real" hat ( :D ) and was making right around 6 psi of boost at 6100-6300 depending on air conditions. That was with a legend stainless steel hand massaged "Jack" impeller!. I am now running my blower about 13% under & making 9 psi of boost & I am able to spin the same impeller from 6300 to 6500+ depending on the air. Of course it has a lot more attitude all the way around... :messedup:
Note Mike ... he said UNDER driven ... your at 21% OVER right now making less boost ...
I like your PSI idea! :D
Watch out Willis! :devil:

[MAXIMUS]

MAXI- what kind of speed did you pick up with the extra rpm? you got a vdrive right?
I am speaking of my 21' daytona... :notam: Not the wanna be v-drive I own... :rolleyes:

[revndave]

Mike go with a big blower and birdcatcher.I know.My old engine with old 8-71 and hat at 17 over made 12lbs and 1103hp at 7100rpm.Fresh motor with new 12-71 and 1050 dominators at 17 over made 12lbs. and 986hp at 7,000rpm.Anyways there are my numbers.

[BUSBY]

Mike go with a big blower and birdcatcher.I know.My old engine with old 8-71 and hat at 17 over made 12lbs and 1103hp at 7100rpm.Fresh motor with new 12-71 and 1050 dominators at 17 over made 12lbs. and 986hp at 7,000rpm.Anyways there are my numbers.
That's what I've been tryin' to tell him ... but he won't listen :hammerhea
He's worried about starting at the sand bar ... :hammerhea
It's called a primer system ... :hammerhea

[revndave]

That's what I've been tryin' to tell him ... but he won't listen :hammerhea
He's worried about starting at the sand bar ... :hammerhea
It's called a primer system ... :hammerhea
My injected deal starts easier than the carbs.

[BUSBY]

My injected deal starts easier than the carbs.
I know ... I know ... but Mike's scared ... :hammer2:

[cyclone]

i'm skeered not :D scared.

[Unchained]

Put up a video of an Enderle injected motor so I can see how easily it starts
COLD and idles at an 800 rpm no wake speed. No squirt bottles allowed either.
Here's one of my EFI setup to compare to.
www.childsdale-ind-prop.com/cold start.MPG

[superdave013]

Put up a video of an Enderle injected motor so I can see how easily it starts
COLD and idles at an 800 rpm no wake speed. No squirt bottles allowed either.
Here's one of my EFI setup to compare to.
www.childsdale-ind-prop.com/cold start.MPG
some times it's not about a nice idle or cold starts. It's about winning at an NJBA drag race. Keep in mind Mark that you said the fastest thing you ever drove had a blown injected (enderle) engine in it.
Mike will never do a cold start when it counts. He will hear "Blown Gas Jet's on deck" and warm his hoopty up.
Not knocking your rig at all. You know I think what you did is totaly bad ass.

[steelcomp]

I'd like to throw in a couple of other issues I haven't heard mentioned. I'm pretty sure it takes a lot more HP to turn that 871 at 21% over, than the 14 at 13% under. So at the same boost, charge temp aside, there's more HP right there. Also, if you're going to step up your boost, you need to remember your valve springs. More boost = more seat pressure.
Hat hat hat hat. :D

[Unchained]

some times it's not about a nice idle or cold starts. It's about winning at an NJBA drag race. Keep in mind Mark that you said the fastest thing you ever drove had a blown injected (enderle) engine in it.
Mike will never do a cold start when it counts. He will hear "Blown Gas Jet's on deck" and warm his hoopty up.
Not knocking your rig at all. You know I think what you did is totaly bad ass.
I know Dave, but when the discussion here turned to, easy to start at the sandbar and how lakeable the MFI is, the BS-O-Meter starts registering and I can't help but give my opinion.........again.
From what I've read Cyclone does run his boat for recreational use as much or more than racing.
Just trying to keep things honest here. :cool:

[BUSBY]

I know Dave, but when the discussion here turned to, easy to start at the sandbar and how lakeable the MFI is, the BS-O-Meter starts registering and I can't help but give my opinion.........again.
From what I've read Cyclone does run his boat for recreational use as much or more than racing.
Just trying to keep things honest here. :cool:
I'll post one up later ... mine fire the very first time in the morning w/ a squirt bottle ... then I don't use it for the rest of the day ... I don't even have a priming system ... the motor fires every time ... no problems whatsoever ... but I run alcohol ... blown gas will need a priming system ... but they make a thing called a "stupid bottle" that makes it so easy to fire ... it's stupid.
I'll post a pic of that later as well.
And I'm keeping it honest here. :D

[revndave]

Here is my deal in front of my house
http://media.putfile.com/Boat18

[djdtpr]

I'll post one up later ... mine fire the very first time in the morning w/ a squirt bottle ... then I don't use it for the rest of the day ... I don't even have a priming system ... the motor fires every time ... no problems whatsoever ... but I run alcohol ... blown gas will need a priming system ... but they make a thing called a "stupid bottle" that makes it so easy to fire ... it's stupid.
I'll post a pic of that later as well.
And I'm keeping it honest here. :D
How come they dont put one on the daytona of Rons then?He looses more races at the rope due to that thing not starting than anything else.That thing would be untouchable if it fired everytime.

[BUSBY]

How come they dont put one on the daytona of Rons then?He looses more races at the rope due to that thing not starting than anything else.That thing would be untouchable if it fired everytime.
TELL ME ABOUT IT!
I have been preaching that to him for the past 5 years ...
At the last race he FINALLY agreed to do it ... I guess Tommy has one already for him.

[djdtpr]

TELL ME ABOUT IT!
I have been preaching that to him for the past 5 years ...
At the last race he FINALLY agreed to do it ... I guess Tommy has one already for him.
:D :D :D :D
Tommy told me that he had one for him when i was there thursday.That has to piss him off when it wont fire and he gives it away when he knows he has the other boat covered.Oh well he still won the high points didnt he?

[BUSBY]

:D :D :D :D
Tommy told me that he had one for him when i was there thursday.That has to piss him off when it wont fire and he gives it away when he knows he has the other boat covered.Oh well he still won the high points didnt he?
Yes ... he won ... so he's not too bummed ...

[Sangster]

Note Mike ... he said UNDER driven ... your at 21% OVER right now making less boost ...
I like your PSI idea! :D
Watch out Willis! :devil:
Check these guys out (http://www.rbssuperchargers.com/) ..We Got a smokin' deal on a New / in the Crate PSI H-200 Blower they have New & Used Stuff...They also have a great Trade-in Program....

[MAXIMUS]

Put up a video of an Enderle injected motor so I can see how easily it starts
COLD and idles at an 800 rpm no wake speed. No squirt bottles allowed either.
Here's one of my EFI setup to compare to.
www.childsdale-ind-prop.com/cold start.MPG
If I had time I would for you mr east coast turbo guy! I created a direct port primer/secondary fuel system that makes engine fire almost immediatly! Then I can allow the motor to stablize for a few seconds before I turn on the mechanical fuel system! Its really quit simple! A few house hold items like my wifes coffer maker filter, & some shrink tube etc... I can promise you it starts better than carbs...

[Unchained]

If I had time I would for you mr east coast turbo guy! I created a direct port primer/secondary fuel system that makes engine fire almost immediatly! Then I can allow the motor to stablize for a few seconds before I turn on the mechanical fuel system! Its really quit simple! A few house hold items like my wifes coffer maker filter, & some shrink tube etc... I can promise you it starts better than carbs...
So once she fires right up it idles right down smooth at ????????????????
I can see that the INEVITABLE transition to EFI is going to be a painful thing for most of the folks here. :cool:

[MAXIMUS]

On my primer system it will idle steady at 1200 cold. Once in the water warmed up it will idle down a little but idles as smooth as a solid roller 540 can. It actually works really good. Down side is blower heat at idle over extended periods of time. Its pretty cool to start a blown injected deal up when it fires like a new car.... :)

[revndave]

On my primer system it will idle steady at 1200 cold. Once in the water warmed up it will idle down a little but idles as smooth as a solid roller 540 can. It actually works really good. Down side is blower heat at idle over extended periods of time. Its pretty cool to start a blown injected deal up when it fires like a new car.... :)
Yes it is. :D :D

[BUSBY]

Put up a video of an Enderle injected motor so I can see how easily it starts
COLD and idles at an 800 rpm no wake speed. No squirt bottles allowed either.
Here's one of my EFI setup to compare to.
www.childsdale-ind-prop.com/cold start.MPG
Okay ... here's the jet boat ... we fired it once and let it run for about 15 seconds ... let it sit for an hour and a half, long enough for me to drive home eat lunch, grab more Coors Light & get my camera ... then tested the cold restart, here it is:
This is with the new "stupid bottle" priming system ... first time we ever used it ... works great!
here it is:
http://unix-scripts.com/hb/uploads/coldstart_0001.wmv

[Unchained]

Okay ... here's the jet boat ... we fired it once and let it run for about 15 seconds ... let it sit for an hour and a half, long enough for me to drive home eat lunch, grab more Coors Light & get my camera ... then tested the cold restart, here it is:
This is with the new "stupid bottle" priming system ... first time we ever used it ... works great!
here it is:
http://unix-scripts.com/hb/uploads/coldstart_0001.wmv
Thanks for putting that up Brian.
The readers can decide for themselves which startup they like. :idea:
With the MFI and the Screw blower could you inject the fuel under the blower?
Why do you have it going into the hat above the blower ?

[BUSBY]

Thanks for putting that up Brian.
The readers can decide for themselves which startup they like. :idea:
With the MFI and the Screw blower could you inject the fuel under the blower?
Why do you have it going into the hat above the blower ?
Using the fuel to cool the charge in the blower as much as possible ... it was set up and flowed that way ... it works ...