How much $$$ to flow test heads??

[kevnmcd]

I keep reading that in order to spec a cam the heads should be flow tested to get the right cam. How much does this cost and who does it? I will be needing to do this shortly, I guess. :)

[YeLLowBoaT]

I was told $40 for 1 intake and 1 exhaust on 1 head. Flow test are one of those things that it did this on this bench at this time. Then again I have not called around.

[Squirtin Thunder]

I was told $40 for 1 intake and 1 exhaust on 1 head. Flow test are one of those things that it did this on this bench at this time. Then again I have not called around.
It is more like $95, Plus set up costs !!!

[BUSBY]

I dunno where you guys are going, but I get it done for cheaper ... not per valve. Usually $50 or $70. They will usually check 4 (2 exhaust, 2 intake) per head unless you ask for them all ... at least this has been my experience with untouched heads.
If you have any type of port work done ... you should have them all flowed.
I would stick with one head shop, and start a relationship with them ... only coming around every now & then will never get you "that extra mile" if you know what I mean.
Brian

[kevnmcd]

Brian,
Since you live in my area, where do you go?

[BUSBY]

Bob McKray w/ McKray Performance... he's in Mission Viejo ... (949) 458-7087. He does a lot of A-Fuel heads as well as regular stuff ... I was referred to him by Ralph & Spike Gorr (Gorr Fuel Systems) ...
You can do some research on him via google or yahoo ... does awesome work.

[kevnmcd]

Bob McKray w/ McKray Performance... he's in Mission Viejo ... (949) 458-7087. He does a lot of A-Fuel heads as well as regular stuff ... I was referred to him by Ralph & Spike Gorr (Gorr Fuel Systems) ...
You can do some research on him via google or yahoo ... does awesome work.
That is right by my house! :rollside: Thanks!

[BUSBY]

no prob man ... good luck ...

[steelcomp]

Alan Johnson charged me $75 for a left and right int. port, and one ex. If you have the $$ to have all the ports flowed, that's cool info to have, but unless you intend on having a cam ground with a different lobe for each cyl., it's pretty much trivia. A custom cam grind will cover the small percentage difference between ports. The better the aftermarket head, the less difference there's going to be between left and right ports on a BB Chev. For GM heads, there's going to be more of a difference. The cam's going to be for an average between the two, when it's done. The difference between similar ports won't be any where near the difference between left and right, so the cam's got that covered.
Hope that made sense. On heads with symetrical ports, like BB Ford, you don't have that problem, and having the numbers for one intake and one exhaust will do. Just be sure that you're flowing the finished product, and don't make any changes afterwards. Also be sure to flow the heads on a fixture with the same bore as your motor, and using either your valves, or the exact same as you're going to use, including face width, back cut, etc. Remember, you're not looking for big flow numbers, you're looking for YOUR flow numbers. A bigger bore will typically give better flow numbers, and head manufacturers usually show advertised flow numbers that were flower on a min. 4.500 bore for a BB Chev. If you use those numbers to have your cam designed, and are only running 4.250 or 4.31, you'll have the wrong cam. It can make a big diference. I'm happy to help anyone with questions.
I edited this to read a little more clearly.

[Squirtin Thunder]

Good points Scott !!1 :rollside:

[steelcomp]

I was told $40 for 1 intake and 1 exhaust on 1 head. Flow test are one of those things that it did this on this bench at this time. Then again I have not called around.
Flow tests can be consistant enough from shop to shop to provide the info needed for a good cam. The key is to know exactly what water drop the heads were flowed at. Typical, and what's used for cam design, is 28" of water. Anything else will yield different flow numbers, and will have to be converted to 28". The flow numbers by themselves are only a tool, and more than that, really don't mean much. I've seen killer heads on the flow bench that were totally wrong for a particular motor. There's a lot more to port design than just flow numbers.

[BOBALOO]

Do a search over on OffShore Only for cam recommendations for your size engine. If you are going roller I think most chose the Crane 731 for 502's or a flat tappet was a 241.
Both of these are torque cams according to the replies if I remember correctly. Your engine should be a flat tappet MKIV or gen 5.
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/index.php?s=

[steelcomp]

Quote: BusbyI would stick with one head shop, and start a relationship with them ... only coming around every now & then will never get you "that extra mile" if you know what I mean.
That's really good advice. Find a shop where you know some of the customers, and they are ALL satisfied. A good head shop is well worth going out of your way for. :coffeycup

[BUSBY]

Quote: Busby
That's really good advice. Find a shop where you know some of the customers, and they are ALL satisfied. A good head shop is well worth going out of your way for. :coffeycup
And you know who my current choice is ... ;)

[cstraub]

I use to charge $55 to flow 1 x I and E and $125 to flow head with intake and carb bolted on and then the header on the exhaust. Sold my "SF600 Vaccum" 5 years ago.

[BUSBY]

$125 to flow head with intake and carb bolted on and then the header on the exhaust.
Now that's pretty good ...

[Beer-30]

That is right by my house! :rollside: Thanks!
By the way, did you see yourself in the Jan '06 Family & Performance Boating?
Nice big pic of you on page 71.

[steelcomp]

And you know who my current choice is ... ;)
That cracked me up...I totally missed it! :hammerhea

[TIMINATOR]

We get $50.00 for 1 intake and 1 exhaust, and for a BBC an extra $20.00 for the other intake port. We are in the Phoenix,AZ. area. We also offer complete cam analyzing, or just 1 Int. and 1 ex. to give specs: lift,duration,duration at .050, duration at .200, area, lobe separation, and graph it, for $17.50. Keep in mind that the ramp rate is as important as the other specs. Now you can be sure of what is in it before you replace it. TIMINATOR

[kevnmcd]

Do a search over on OffShore Only for cam recommendations for your size engine. If you are going roller I think most chose the Crane 731 for 502's or a flat tappet was a 241.
Both of these are torque cams according to the replies if I remember correctly. Your engine should be a flat tappet MKIV or gen 5.
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/index.php?s=
Bobby - Your right....it is a gen 5. Thanks for the info. I will check it out.

[kevnmcd]

By the way, did you see yourself in the Jan '06 Family & Performance Boating?
Nice big pic of you on page 71.
I did see that article. I took most of the pics. :D Not the ones of me, of course. :rolleyes: The pic turned out a little funky but still a good pic. :mix:

[TIMINATOR]

P.S.- If your lake boat is not a max effort, race deal, don't worry about flowing the heads, the cam needs to match the intended RPM of the motor against the pump, Nitrous also skews the cam choice greatly, but not in the way that you would expect. The only time you really NEED to match the cam and heads is on a serious deal, with every last thing matched to every other thing. It is of no use to match the cam to a set of 6200 RPM heads if the pump keeps the RPM to 5400. Cams are useful "band-aids" to get everything to work best in an intended RPM range. Spend your money elsewhere. Remember: this is from a shop that makes a living building engines, we prefer to spend our customers money wisely. Don't waste your time calling the cam companies, their tech guys aren't boat people, and certainly not engine builders either. Find a builder (not just an assembler), that runs his own boats, has a half of a million dollar + investment in equipment,and is locally respected. These people have more of what you seek. Also if your cam"expert" does not have a cam analyzer, he is just guessing. Cam ramp rates and area under the curve vary so widely even with the same duration at .050, the cams even with the same specs from different companies will exhibit quite different characteristics. There are three "reputable" companies that come to mind that catalogue cams in increasing size that several of the larger cams actually have less flow and Horsepower than their newer, "smaller" grind. They have told me that they still catalogue the inferior stuff to offer the consumer a larger choice. It is my opinion that confusing the selection process isn't a good choice, but the foregoing is just my opinion, I COULD be wrong. TIMINATOR :D

[PC Rat]

Bob McKray w/ McKray Performance... he's in Mission Viejo ... (949) 458-7087. He does a lot of A-Fuel heads as well as regular stuff ... I was referred to him by Ralph & Spike Gorr (Gorr Fuel Systems) ...
You can do some research on him via google or yahoo ... does awesome work.
Bob did the Dart heads on my Placecraft, he is a very nice guy and I felt that he did a lot of work for what he charged me.
Brian

[steelcomp]

don't worry about flowing the heads, the cam needs to match the intended RPM of the motor against the pump, Yeah, just guess. :sleeping: What could the heads possibly have to do with engine rpm?
How do you know what cam to pick? Because the catalogue says so?? This comment dosen't make sense at all.
The only time you really NEED to match the cam and heads is on a serious deal, with every last thing matched to every other thing.
That's rediculous. You don't NEED any of this...it's all recreational, so NEED is relative to the individual. Just imagine how much better and more efficient 99% of the avarage motors out there would run if the builder even thought about matching the cam to the motor. It's so easy, and costs so very little, and will make more difference in your motor than anything else you can do, with the parts you have. Why not optimize what you have? Race deal or not?
It is of no use to match the cam to a set of 6200 RPM heads if the pump keeps the RPM to 5400.That is, of course, unless you want to build more power and turn that pump 6200! It isn't the pump that keeps a motor at a given RPM, it's the output of the motor that dictates the motor's ability to turn the pump! You want to spin the pump faster, make more power!
Cams are useful "band-aids" to get everything to work best in an intended RPM range. Sorry, but that's just a stupid comment. Bandaids?
Find a builder (not just an assembler), that runs his own boats, has a half of a million dollar + investment in equipment,and is locally respected. Yeah, and then ask him which catalogue he picks from. :rolleyes:
Talk to any cam designer, not just someone with a cam doctor, that understands and has a history with cam design. One of the first things he'll want to know is your head flow no's. He'll also want to know the partiuculars about your engine, and it's intended use. You can give him all the pertinant info, but without head flow no's, you might as well pick one off the shelf, and fall prey to mass marketing, because without flow no's, it's just a guess.

[BUSBY]

Bob did the Dart heads on my Placecraft, he is a very nice guy and I felt that he did a lot of work for what he charged me.
Brian
Yeah ... he's a good guy ... does great work ... trustworthy IMO, will give you a straight answer, good or bad ... and doesn't gouge you by charging for items not needed.
Glad to hear you had a good experience as well.
Not to jack the thread, but any luck on selling your ride?
(damn ... if that's not a thread jack, I don't know what is ... maybe you should bump your thread if you still have it and we can talk about it there ... )
BB

[TIMINATOR]

Talk about missing the point! Just because a man is a cam designer does not mean he knows what is the best cam for every application. I know of no cam designers from any big company that would take the time to talk to you unless you are a big "Name". A top fuel dragster tuner doesn't nesessarily know how to tune a 12 sec. bracket car. A lobe library is a little different thing than a catalogue. A cam Dr. is a tool. I don't care how good a cam advisor is, if he doesn't have hands on experience with a boat motor, his advice is suspect. Re-read the post to see what was asked for, out and out race or a better performing lake boat.At the level of performance that the boat is currently at, there is more bang for the buck in other places.I didn't come on here to have a peeing contest, I was trying to provide some worthwhile info. Since this thread does not meet my criteria for discussion, feel free to have another beer and pee amongst yourselves. I will return to my paying customers, and keep in mind that paying for somthing separates the doers from the dreamers, B.S.ers and arguers. You have the last word. I don't need it. TIMINATOR

[steelcomp]

Talk about missing the point! Just because a man is a cam designer does not mean he knows what is the best cam for every application. I know of no cam designers from any big company that would take the time to talk to you unless you are a big "Name". A top fuel dragster tuner doesn't nesessarily know how to tune a 12 sec. bracket car. A lobe library is a little different thing than a catalogue. A cam Dr. is a tool. I don't care how good a cam advisor is, if he doesn't have hands on experience with a boat motor, his advice is suspect. Re-read the post to see what was asked for, out and out race or a better performing lake boat.At the level of performance that the boat is currently at, there is more bang for the buck in other places.I didn't come on here to have a peeing contest, I was trying to provide some worthwhile info. Since this thread does not meet my criteria for discussion, feel free to have another beer and pee amongst yourselves. I will return to my paying customers, and keep in mind that paying for somthing separates the doers from the dreamers, B.S.ers and arguers. You have the last word. I don't need it. TIMINATOR
Sorry Tim...didn't mean to ruffle your feathers, but I try and post good info here, too, so when you come on a puiblic forum and post the BS you posted. I'm not just going to sit here and let someone think that what you wrote is OK. It's not. Instead of crying in your Cornflakes and calling names, why don't you just go back and address what I wrote? Show where yo're right. Show some evidence.
I know of no cam designers from any big company that would take the time to talk to you unless you are a big "Name". That may be true for you, although I don't know why. I'm definately a nobody in the scheme of things, and I've found one of the best in the country who is willing, time permitting, to talk to anyone. He's even taken time to post here on our meaningless little forum, and offer his advice. He works with top engine builders in the country and is privy to the very latest technology.
A top fuel dragster tuner doesn't nesessarily know how to tune a 12 sec. bracket car. Chances are that a Top Fuel tuner once raced a couple of 12 sec. cars, and did pretty well with them, along with lots of other cars through his career. Probably how he became a Top Fuel tuner.
Re-read the post to see what was asked for, out and out race or a better performing lake boat.Here's the post:
I keep reading that in order to spec a cam the heads should be flow tested to get the right cam. How much does this cost and who does it? I will be needing to do this shortly, I guess.
All I see is a question relating cam choice with head flow...nothing about lake boat, race boat, or what level of performance he's at right now. There may be more bang for the buck in other places, but that wasn't the question.
I didn't come on here to have a peeing contest, I was trying to provide some worthwhile info. Since this thread does not meet my criteria for discussion, feel free to have another beer and pee amongst yourselves. I will return to my paying customers, and keep in mind that paying for somthing separates the doers from the dreamers, B.S.ers and arguers. You have the last word. I don't need it. :notam: If you have paying customers, then yes, you should go back to them and not waste your time her with us dreamers, BS'ers, and arguers. We don't know nuthin, and clearly are not worthy of your time.
OR, you could stick around and engage in some good ol' friendly debate, and maybe learn something, or even teach us something. :D
Good luck! :coffeycup

[BUSBY]

Well ... I might not be a top fuel tuner ... and some say I can't tune my lawnmower ... but I think I do pretty good being an engine builder during my off time with the people I deal with.
I try to utilize my relationships with head shops/cam builders (usually there is only one for me :D )/machine shops to determine which combination is best for the people I do work for.
IMO, I cannot know everything & no one person can be the best at everything. Educating yourself about who knows what and where to go to get what you need and making sure that it fits the application is the key to anything you do in life. Did that make sense? I hope so ...
If any one engine builder/assembler/tuner/whatever tells you that they are the "one stop shop" ... well IMO ... I wouldn't be shopping there. Even Austin Coil looks for advise from specialists & out sources to them for work to be done. I really don't see him doing everything ... he looks to find the people who know what they are talking about and trusts their advice.
Now, Kevin came on here and asked a simple question and got his answer ... I think he's been educating himself and is headed in the right direction.
I guess I should be called an "engine assembler" because I will still rely on advice from my contacts instead of thinking I know it all ... but what do I know ... I'm really a nobody who's in Real Estate.

[BUSBY]

anyways ... back to my lawnmower ... :rollside: