photos from NJBA Nationals [Archive]

cyclone

10-27-2005, 02:26 PM

sorry but we only got ones from our pit.
in the pits:
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/45IMG_4468.JPG
going through tech inspection:
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/45IMG_4566.JPG
had to buy a new helmet at the race because my old one wouldn't pass tech:
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/45IMG_4657.JPG
"thanks for the help."
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/45IMG_4697-med.JPG

cyclone

10-27-2005, 02:32 PM

Don jones busting someone for not showing up on time. in the background is harold traylor. didn't do so well in my race against him. my boat took a left hand turn toward the beach at the start. oh well next time.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/45IMG_4700.JPG
qualifying was rad because i got to line up against drivers like Ken Myers that i normally wouldnt go up against.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/45IMG_4731.JPG
Crew chief Hbjet getting the motor warmed up. It ran real good considering it only had about 20 minutes worth of break in time at Elsinore a few days beforehand.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/45IMG_4856.JPG
And here is what i have to work on over the winter... getting the ass end of the boat out of the water.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/45IMG_4868.JPG

AZKC

10-27-2005, 02:40 PM

Killer pics Cyclone, come on out to the Finals in PHX. I'd like to see that thing in person. That boat is Da Kine :)

BUSBY

10-27-2005, 02:46 PM

Okay ... see where the green in your graphics goes to a point near the rear of the boat? That is where you should be touching the water ... nothing before that ...
Then you'll be airing it out ... but hey ... look at it this way, you've already caught up to Willis ... Ron's next right?
:D

Squirtin Thunder

10-27-2005, 03:06 PM

I have no idea how Mikes boat is set-up but, I found too much up on the plate caused the ass to squat on my boat. Also too much bite from the shoe will do this also. But Mike knows all this. What was the Red boats set-up on the shoe depth ???

cyclone

10-27-2005, 03:18 PM

ST- the red boat was a totall different animal and one that i wouldnt try to air out anymore than it already was. a 2-degree back cut shoe even with the keel and 4.5-degrees up on the plate with a droop snoot worked really well with that boat. this doesn't really apply to my Ultra now though. I started with 2-degrees of backcut and will try 2.5 and 3-degrees next.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/45rogers.jpg

superdave013

10-27-2005, 03:25 PM

http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/45IMG_4697-med.JPG
that lifejacket cracks me up. looks like an ol sack O taters to me.
I've never seen one get all saggy like that. lol
why did they boo hoo your helmet?

cyclone

10-27-2005, 03:33 PM

well they tend to look like a sack o' taters when they are a bit too big for you and when they get wet.
the foam padding behind the front of my helmet broke apart. basically had nothing there to protect my grill. SD i still got those pulleys in the garage. next time i see ya i promise to bring them by.

superdave013

10-27-2005, 03:46 PM

ah, I've had them get wet but never too big. Mine f'n shrunk on me. haha
But once they replace the flotation it will seem even bigger on you.
No worrys on the pulley (only one I think). I'm just keeping track of where things are. Reminding myself more then anything.

Willis

10-27-2005, 03:52 PM

BUSBY

10-27-2005, 04:06 PM

Thats right,
All he has to do now is beat me :devil:
Willis
Well ... he caught you ... but can he keep up with you! :D
You know you're making the step up ... the question is ... will he? :D

Willis

10-27-2005, 04:24 PM

Well ... he caught you ... but can he keep up with you! :D
You know you're making the step up ... the question is ... will he? :D
Hey,
You told :devil:
Willis

Bense468

10-27-2005, 05:22 PM

forgot one
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/731cyclone.jpg

revndave

10-27-2005, 05:35 PM

Cool pics Mike.

Cs19

10-27-2005, 07:25 PM

Cs19

10-27-2005, 07:26 PM

Ah come on Willis, everyone knows. :D

MikeF

10-27-2005, 07:42 PM

If it were mine, Id bring the nose down and the tail up, but thats just me.
Spilling a little too much air. ? :boxed:
Maybe a little more down nozzle.

cyclone

10-27-2005, 08:12 PM

http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/45IMG_4868.JPG
Sh*t that looks cleaner than I thought Mike.
If it were mine, Id bring the nose down and the tail up, but thats just me.
What hardware is in it during that pass?
I suppose the motor could stand to go forward a couple of inches. nose could go down but it wasn't excessive in that photo. i'm carrying a lot of weight. In that pass i had a 2 degree back cut shoe even with the keel.

victorfb

10-27-2005, 08:34 PM

i have to agree on the comment of bringing the nose down a bit to help lift the rear. kinda like trying to get a plane airborn and lifting to high on the nose, it aint gunna happen. by looking at the pics and set up, id try lifting the thrust line a bit. maybe a 2 degree up wedge on the snoot. and if you dont use the diverter for racing, id remove it and try a race nozzle. larger diameter and tuneable. plus its a constant, so you dont have to worry were your diverter is off the start. then again i dont know shiat, i swing a hammer. :hammerhea

396_WAYS_TO_SPIT

10-27-2005, 08:35 PM

I love the numbers on the side :D :D :D

Mrs.Racer277

10-27-2005, 08:53 PM

Beautiful boat. We came by the pits on Sunday and checked it out. :D

Squirtin Thunder

10-27-2005, 08:57 PM

I like the thoughts I got from cs19 on mine, but again 2 different boats and powers. But I had the same problem, stuffin the ass down. I am now running 4* down wedge and less plate, about 1.5* up now.

BUSBY

10-27-2005, 09:12 PM

Hey,
You told :devil:
Willis
Sorry man ... I had to with the conversation we had about going to blown fuel ... Ron was asking while holding my beer back ... he was taunting me ... kinda like that chinese water torture thing man! I'm sorry ... he broke me ...
never get in the way of me and my Silver Bullets ... I can't handle it!
:D

FuelInMyVeins82

10-27-2005, 10:04 PM

I like the pic of the red boat :D :D hey did you run ne wedge in that thing when u ran it

HBjet

10-27-2005, 11:56 PM

I love the numbers on the side :D :D :D
Pretty trick huh? We can make you a set if you like, just let us know :rollside:
Cyclone, the pics look good.... the boat is looking good. You know my thoughts... and next year the first race will be our best so far!
HBjet

cyclone

10-28-2005, 07:03 AM

I like the pic of the red boat :D :D hey did you run ne wedge in that thing when u ran it
no wedge. just an amt droop and place diverter.

Cs19

10-28-2005, 07:11 AM

Cs19

10-28-2005, 07:17 AM

Cyclone, the pics look good.... the boat is looking good. You know my thoughts... and next year the first race will be our best so far!
HBjet
Listen to the crew chief, he knows whats up .See what happens when you let Randy prep the boat, you guys run your best ever.

cyclone

10-28-2005, 08:40 AM

Oh its all him trust me. i just build motors, carburetors and drive. its all in the prep, trust me. seriously though, without randy and Tom Papp the boat would never even make it to the track let alone run down it safely.

victorfb

10-28-2005, 09:55 AM

Vic, I say drop the nose and lift the tail...But if you simply just bring the nose down (easy part) the tail wont just pop up, hes gonna havta find some way to get it up without hurting the boat in other areas.(hard part).
absolutely true. but with the nose too high, that creates sort of a leverage factor that will force the rear into the water more and create a dragging effect. by first getting the hull to set at a proper angle, it will then take less effort to sustian forward momentum. hence allowing the hull to use its air entrapment more efficiently. dropping the nose can be done by a little downward angle with the diverter, but now you are bending the water thrust and "forcing" the nose down, which in turn is creating a drag again. the goal is to get the hull further out of the water, true. but if the hull wants to ride at its currant angle, any attempt to lift the rear will be trying to lift the entire hull at that angle. lets say he puts another half degree in the shoe, what that is doing is creating a lift by adding drag by bending the flowing surface of the hull. this will definatly lift the hull and with the leverage factor the nose will come down, but at the cost of more drag. for a performance lake boat this is very minimal, but for a race boat were every little bit is crutial for optimun speed and time, less drag is better. jet boats are at a disadvantage because the thrust is created at the rear most of the hull so proper thrust line and angle is more critical on what angle/level the boat will want to be propelled. were as a v-drive the thrust is much further forward and under the hull, due to its prop shaft. basically lifting the hull from the point of were the shaft enters the hull. since the thrust is centered more under the hull the use of cav plates at the rear react quiker with less angle needed because you have more of a teedering effect. ok, so i went way overboard on trying to explian my thoughts, sorry about that. :hammerhea

BUSBY

10-28-2005, 10:14 AM

I dunno much ... and I don't get into much about nozzel, shoe, blah, blah, blah ... and I've bee around a pretty quick jet that some call a joke or embarassment it's run pretty good IMO ... but I think a little tail up is agreed by all ...
How Mike does it ... well that's up to him ... I think it looks good right now Mike ... just a little wet IMO. I wouldn't go chasing a bottom tune up until you max out the HP from the engine ... it'll become a different animal once you throw a real blower at it ... just my .02 ... but they say I'm a little looney & work on a joke boat ... :D

steelcomp

10-28-2005, 06:39 PM

absolutely true. but with the nose too high, that creates sort of a leverage factor that will force the rear into the water more and create a dragging effect. by first getting the hull to set at a proper angle, it will then take less effort to sustian forward momentum. hence allowing the hull to use its air entrapment more efficiently. dropping the nose can be done by a little downward angle with the diverter, but now you are bending the water thrust and "forcing" the nose down, which in turn is creating a drag again. the goal is to get the hull further out of the water, true. but if the hull wants to ride at its currant angle, any attempt to lift the rear will be trying to lift the entire hull at that angle. lets say he puts another half degree in the shoe, what that is doing is creating a lift by adding drag by bending the flowing surface of the hull. this will definatly lift the hull and with the leverage factor the nose will come down, but at the cost of more drag. for a performance lake boat this is very minimal, but for a race boat were every little bit is crutial for optimun speed and time, less drag is better. jet boats are at a disadvantage because the thrust is created at the rear most of the hull so proper thrust line and angle is more critical on what angle/level the boat will want to be propelled. were as a v-drive the thrust is much further forward and under the hull, due to its prop shaft. basically lifting the hull from the point of were the shaft enters the hull. since the thrust is centered more under the hull the use of cav plates at the rear react quiker with less angle needed because you have more of a teedering effect. ok, so i went way overboard on trying to explian my thoughts, sorry about that. :hammerheaUmm, wha? Huh? I didn't get about half that. :confused:

steelcomp

10-28-2005, 06:45 PM

Vic, I say drop the nose and lift the tail...But if you simply just bring the nose down (easy part) the tail wont just pop up, hes gonna havta find some way to get it up without hurting the boat in other areas.(hard part).Chris is right...just lowering the nose is just going to put more boat in the water. Ass gotta go UP if nose is coming down. New school. :D

Sangster

10-28-2005, 06:54 PM

:idea: Sounds like a little Bottom/Spoon work is needed.....Then play with the motor placement.. Also add plenty of HP... :clover: :clover: :clover:

cyclone

10-28-2005, 07:09 PM

:idea: Sounds like a little Bottom/Spoon work is needed.....Then play with the motor placement.. Also add plenty of HP... :clover: :clover: :clover:
the bottom has been attended to. motor placement and hardware is next on the list.

djdtpr

10-28-2005, 07:52 PM

Mike the 3* that i tried of Cs's definatly lifted the back of mine but it didnt help the suction pressure issue i have.Amazingly enough it still landed really smooth even with it blowing the tail.

cyclone

10-28-2005, 08:14 PM

What kind of pressure readings were you getting? mine unloaded on the big end a few times throughout the weekend.

djdtpr

10-28-2005, 08:36 PM

I dont have a gauge set up on it yet but its enough to pull some threads onb the bowl and blow the wedge apart and blow the oring on the hand hole cover.Tommy figures over 100 lbs by the damage it was doing.

Cs19

10-28-2005, 08:51 PM

mine unloaded on the big end a few times throughout the weekend.
What exactly caused it to unload Mike?

Cs19

10-28-2005, 08:58 PM

Mike the 3* that i tried of Cs's definatly lifted the back of mine but it didnt help the suction pressure issue i have.Amazingly enough it still landed really smooth even with it blowing the tail.
I still think it was scary looking, lotsa lift both front and back on that pass. :jawdrop:.That shoe should not load any harder than any other shoe if the biting edge depth is the same, the only thing different was the opening, maybe that caused it to load harder,I'd be surprised, but its possible the water accelerates harder into the inlet from being squeezed down at the opening..
DJD, like we talked about, a 2.5 BC with a 12.5" opening and a 6 inch blocker would probably be a good test for Mr. Bendejo.

cyclone

10-28-2005, 09:16 PM

What exactly caused it to unload Mike?
nose too high, water too rough.

Cs19

10-28-2005, 09:23 PM

copy that.

Jetboatguru

10-28-2005, 09:24 PM

Mike, have you thought about a V drive? :D
You seem like one of us. Here, drink this purple Koolaide. :jawdrop:

TRG

10-28-2005, 09:33 PM

LMFAO!!! You copy that there captain miguel???

Cs19

10-28-2005, 09:35 PM

"You know how fast you'd go if you put that engine in a v-drive"

TRG

10-28-2005, 09:37 PM

OH FU$K! it gonna be a long one!

BGMAN203

10-28-2005, 09:39 PM

Mike, have you thought about a V drive? :D
You seem like one of us. Here, drink this purple Koolaide. :jawdrop:
I got some of that Koolaide at my house too. You don't have to drive up to nor cal to drink it, there is plenty here too!!!

cyclone

10-28-2005, 09:43 PM

BGMAN203

10-28-2005, 09:51 PM

Thats a weak excuse. Try again. Plus Super Dave would like the business. Your already selling your blower and carbs so your going to need to go visit him anyways.

Jetboatguru

10-28-2005, 09:52 PM

victorfb

10-28-2005, 10:06 PM

Chris is right...just lowering the nose is just going to put more boat in the water. Ass gotta go UP if nose is coming down. New school. :D
aparently i was thinking too far outside the box here. my comment of dropping the nose to help lift the rear obviously needs a little more explanation. with the current thrust line forcing the nose to want to lift that high, freeing up the rear may turn to be a dangerous situation. especially since he is going to be adding more HP.
in the long winded post i tried to apply a little physics.
i know everyone has thier ideas and tricks to gain speed and faster times, but all i am concerned with here is the safety factor. at what point do you say "maybe that was a little too much" when trying to free up the hull? that nose seems too high to me and would hate to see mike loose control. if it was my set up, id first get the hull to ride a bit flatter, THEN work on airing it out more. apperantly i failed in translation from mind to screen. too many high times in high school maybe? :messedup:

Squirtin Thunder

10-28-2005, 10:17 PM

aparently i was thinking too far outside the box here. my comment of dropping the nose to help lift the rear obviously needs a little more explanation. with the current thrust line forcing the nose to want to lift that high, freeing up the rear may turn to be a dangerous situation. especially since he is going to be adding more HP.
in the long winded post i tried to apply a little physics.
i know everyone has thier ideas and tricks to gain speed and faster times, but all i am concerned with here is the safety factor. at what point do you say "maybe that was a little too much" when trying to free up the hull? that nose seems too high to me and would hate to see mike loose control. if it was my set up, id first get the hull to ride a bit flatter, THEN work on airing it out more. apperantly i failed in translation from mind to screen. too many high times in high school maybe? :messedup:
Maybe you have been working to high lately

BUSBY

10-28-2005, 10:48 PM

Mike, have you thought about a V drive? :D
You seem like one of us. Here, drink this purple Koolaide. :jawdrop:
:supp:

BUSBY

10-28-2005, 10:54 PM

Your resistance is futile Mike. I see you gawking at the V drives, the flatbottoms in particular. Admit it to yourself, you are a closet V driver. You have made your mark in the jet world now it is time to transcend mediocrity. ;)
Mike ... listen to the Guru ... let the v-drive mojo fill your veins ... you know you want it to ... you want to go fast ... but you resist ... it's okay ... let the jet in you go ... all of us who have decided to go fast have let go as well ... it's all good ... no one will hold it against you ... they will all understand ... :D ... let the speed force be with you! ... :D

Unchained

10-29-2005, 04:40 AM

There turned out to be some good discussion here about getting the back of the boat out of the water that I can use.
I think I'm going to try dropping the ride plate down one degree and the nozzle angle too.
I think I've got the bow too high also.
I've spent most of my time on engine tinkering and not enough on hull / pump tuning. I think that's untimately where the MPH is.
The picture on my signature line is not a good representation of the hull ride angle because that was full up nozzle at about 60 mph. There was about 10 tons of water in the air behind me. I can only do that with two people aboard or it gets dangerous.

Cs19

10-29-2005, 07:34 AM

Vic, I find your posts hard to follow,but I understood some of it.
Running the nose high is easy to do and its easy speed but dangerous.If you think it wont go over at 110 your kidding yourself.
I would also start with a flat ride, then slowly bring it up (SMALL INCREMENTS) till you found what you want.Not run it high and see what you can get away with, thats careless.Bringing the tail up is also dangerous and I personally do it in small increments.I find that the boat gets too loose and sometimes is not driveable with alot of transom lift, its changing lanes all the way down the track..
On another note, alot of blowovers have happened due to guys simply adding or finding more power while not touching the set up.If you add more HP, back it off for a lap or two. Lets keep it safe.
CS

victorfb

10-29-2005, 08:29 AM

Cs, i totally understand. i think its because i try to shorten my posts, but still get my points across and end up deleting alot of the key notes. all in all it sounds like you got my point on this issue.
it happens all too often that we keep throwing little tricks and additions to our set ups to try and better it, and forget about the basics.

cyclone

10-29-2005, 08:53 AM

Thats a weak excuse. Try again. Plus Super Dave would like the business. Your already selling your blower and carbs so your going to need to go visit him anyways.
HMM. ok here are a few other excuses.
I need a really good reverse for racing Dan Hercules.
I like a challenge.
(please note that nowhere in my excuses did i drop the usual "rough ride, 6am or 6pm vdrive bs).
:D

cyclone

10-29-2005, 08:55 AM

Your resistance is futile Mike. I see you gawking at the V drives, the flatbottoms in particular. Admit it to yourself, you are a closet V driver. You have made your mark in the jet world now it is time to transcend mediocrity. ;)
while i freely admit to being jealous that i cannot simply chop the throttle on shutdown like a vdriver can, i also liken the experience of racing my boat to being at disneyland. I get two rides for the price of one; the speed of space mountain and then the buckin' bronco shut down of thunder mountain :) .

Unchained

10-29-2005, 09:35 AM

while i freely admit to being jealous that i cannot simply chop the throttle on shutdown like a vdriver can, i also liken the experience of racing my boat to being at disneyland. I get two rides for the price of one; the speed of space mountain and then the buckin' bronco shut down of thunder mountain :) .
CS mentioned that too.
I don't get any of that at all.
Can one of you guys mount a camera in the boat and take a video so I can see what the boat's doing ? Even looking over the bow the camera should capture what the hulls doing if it's mounted solid.
The only reason I backout slow is to minimise compressor surge that happens when I slam the throttle bodies shut. I've done it several times and it hasn't hurt anything yet except make a bad noise but when I up the boost next season to 25 or 30# it may damage the compressor wheels.
I mean to install a couple blowoffs to relieve the pressure.

BUSBY

10-29-2005, 09:47 AM

CS mentioned that too.
I don't get any of that at all.
Can one of you guys mount a camera in the boat and take a video so I can see what the boat's doing ? Even looking over the bow the camera should capture what the hulls doing if it's mounted solid.
The only reason I backout slow is to minimise compressor surge that happens when I slam the throttle bodies shut. I've done it several times and it hasn't hurt anything yet except make a bad noise but when I up the boost next season to 25 or 30# it may damage the compressor wheels.
I mean to install a couple blowoffs to relieve the pressure.
I wish you lived closer ... we have about 100 old race videos ... tons of footage ... a lot of jets stuffing the nose after letting out ...
BTW Mike(s) & Chris (and anyone else for that matter) ... drinkfest at Ron's this Saturday & Sunday ... feel free to swing by. We'll be watching some of those vids remembering "the good ol days" ...

Jetboatguru

10-29-2005, 12:29 PM

You know I am just razzin you Mike. I love jets. That's why I am the Jetboatguru. I can cure your problem. :D

Taylorman

10-29-2005, 12:56 PM

CS mentioned that too.
I don't get any of that at all.
Can one of you guys mount a camera in the boat and take a video so I can see what the boat's doing ? Even looking over the bow the camera should capture what the hulls doing if it's mounted solid.
The only reason I backout slow is to minimise compressor surge that happens when I slam the throttle bodies shut. I've done it several times and it hasn't hurt anything yet except make a bad noise but when I up the boost next season to 25 or 30# it may damage the compressor wheels.
I mean to install a couple blowoffs to relieve the pressure.
Holy crap, 30# of boost. How much hp will that be and how fast is your boat?

cyclone

10-29-2005, 01:51 PM

You know I am just razzin you Mike. I love jets. That's why I am the Jetboatguru. I can cure your problem. :D
oh i know. i'd join the dark side but i'm still waiting on those driving lessons. oh shit that's another excuse though. damn. :D

Unchained

10-29-2005, 03:23 PM

Holy crap, 30# of boost. How much hp will that be and how fast is your boat?
I don't know, I would have to figure it out with the hp calulation program.
I believe the program to be accurate and other turbo gurus have told me that the program is real accurate if you plug in the A/F ratio number because that tells what came out the pipe.
You have to tune it first then plug in the numbers.
Here's a current hp calc program with the numbers plugged in that I'm running now, fuel based and air based.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/220hpcalcs.jpg
I don't know how fast the boat is on top end. I never went there.
I just want to be in front of any LAKE boat that I find. ;)

BUSBY

10-29-2005, 03:40 PM

Holy crap, 30# of boost. How much hp will that be and how fast is your boat?
30# isn't that much ... we've had my father-in-laws at 37-40 all season ...

Taylorman

10-29-2005, 06:03 PM

30# isn't that much ... we've had my father-in-laws at 37-40 all season ...
What kind of blower? Can you get that kind of boost out of a 14-71?

10-30-2005, 09:54 AM

30# isn't that much ... we've had my father-in-laws at 37-40 all season ...
mark's potential is a lot more than 30, easy to get and a whole lot less weight to carry around.

BUSBY

11-03-2005, 06:43 PM

What kind of blower? Can you get that kind of boost out of a 14-71?
Sorry Kevin ... didn't see this ... PSI 206B ... and you could outta a 1471, but it's too hot of a charge spinning it that hard ... would defeat the purpose ...

BUSBY

11-03-2005, 06:44 PM

mark's potential is a lot more than 30, easy to get and a whole lot less weight to carry around.
you are correct there Bob ... a lot lighter ...

Unchained

11-04-2005, 04:26 AM

"Boost pressure" would be a good tech subject.
There's a whole lot more to it than just comparing pressures from one engine to another.
Boost pressures as compared to static compression ratios.
Boost pressures and the heat generated by the compressors.
A turbocharged engine can show a high boost number and not make huge power if the turbine housing size is too small to flow enough exhaust. Common on street cars, just a short surge and that's all she wrote.
Just like a lot of things with engines, the deeper you dig the more complex it becomes, and the more opinions you have about how to do it.

jweeks123

11-04-2005, 10:51 AM

...the deeper you dig the more complex it becomes, and the more opinions you have about how to do it.......well maybe not around here....... :rolleyes:how does it feel to be so superior?
jw

superdave013

11-04-2005, 11:02 AM

you know with a vdrive i'd have to turn the engine around the other way which means replumbing all my nifty Sweet Pefrormance steel braided lines and fittings and man i just cant bring myself to do that. so i guess its impossible, no vdrive for me. oh well.
They are reuseable hose ends Mike. But seeing that they have been on a few boats with a few different engines I'm sure you already know that! ;)
But hey, I have a nifty tool to make gear changes a snap with your name on it. You could change gears in under 15 min. No way could you change an impeller that quick! :wink: