Parker Indian Lease?

[djunkie]

Anyone here of an increase in the indian land lease?

[TCHB]

It seems like every couple of years the rent goes up along the strip where the Indians own the land. Most people along the Parker Strip have a year to year lease. Good luck.

[djunkie]

It seems like every couple of years the rent goes up along the strip where the Indians own the land. Most people along the Parker Strip have a year to year lease. Good luck.
I just got wind from a friend that they are gonna raise the lease to "fair market value"

[Boatcop]

I just got wind from a friend that they are gonna raise the lease to "fair market value"
And "fair market value" will be through the roof.
Doesn't matter if you're locked into a multi-year lease. All they will do is tell you that you have to pay the increase, (probably double or triple what it is now) even if your lease says otherwise.
The leases that the CRIT tribe enters into isn't worth the paper it's printed on. If you don't pay, they WILL go in, remove your stuff, put it in storage, and bill you for the storage fees. If you don't pay that, they'll keep your stuff.
I know, then you'll sue them for breach of contract, or breaking the lease or whatever. Guess what. You can't. There is no court on the planet that will hear the case. None. Zip. Nada.
The secret word is Sovereign Immunity. Well, that's 2 words, but back to the point.
They screwed my Mom out of more than 1/2 the square footage she was paying for, and outlined in her lease. Sent her a letter that said she had 30 days to vacate half of her store. An area that was outlined in her lease, she was paying for, and also paid to refurbish. It held the print shop, kitchen break room, and back room storage.
She sent a letter to the Tribal Counsel asking for a review of her lease. They refused.
At 12:01 AM (a minute after midnight) on the 31st day, they broke into the store and moved everything they could into the aisles of her retail business. They then changed the locks on the rear entry (after breaking the old ones off) and erected a wall. (Studs, drywall, the whole shebang) between her store and the area they wanted. The property that was left, printing press, photo equip, refrigerator, kitchen stuff, shelving, etc. was left behind those walls, and if she had gone in to retrieve them, she would have been arrested.
They did this under the watchful eye of the tribal police.
They then told every Tribal agency and their tribal members NOT to purchase anything there. Taking more than 1/2 of the business away from her store.
After nearly 2 years of legal wrangling, going through the tribal court, Federal Court, and tribal appeals court, Federal Appeals Court, etc. they were told that the tribe had Immunity and no court had jurisdiction in the case, unless the Tribe themselves gave permission to the court.
She eventually moved the store and quit paying rent to those thieves, who then sent her a bill for over $30,000 dollars for supposedly unpaid rent. She filed bankruptcy, sending the Tribe notice that they could include that 30 grand in the bankruptcy. They never did, because they then would have enjoined themselves to the court, and the bankruptcy court would have held jurisdiction over the lease provisions. If that had happened, the Tribes would have lost, and been liable for triple damages to my folks.
Turns out that they had a renter for the space that was willing to pay twice what my Mom was. This was a direct and deliberate attempt to run my Mom out. And it worked.
So when they send you the bill for 2,3 or 4 times what you're paying now, and your lease says otherwise, you have 2 choices. Pay it. Or abandon it.
Because the lease don't mean nuttin.

[little rowe boat]

And "fair market value" will be through the roof.
Doesn't matter if you're locked into a multi-year lease. All they will do is tell you that you have to pay the increase, (probably double or triple what it is now) even if your lease says otherwise.
The leases that the CRIT tribe enters into isn't worth the paper it's printed on. If you don't pay, they WILL go in, remove your stuff, put it in storage, and bill you for the storage fees. If you don't pay that, they'll keep your stuff.
I know, then you'll sue them for breach of contract, or breaking the lease or whatever. Guess what. You can't. There is no court on the planet that will hear the case. None. Zip. Nada.
The secret word is Sovereign Immunity. Well, that's 2 words, but back to the point.
They screwed my Mom out of more than 1/2 the square footage she was paying for, and outlined in her lease. Sent her a letter that said she had 30 days to vacate half of her store. An area that was outlined in her lease, she was paying for, and also paid to refurbish. It held the print shop, kitchen break room, and back room storage.
She sent a letter to the Tribal Counsel asking for a review of her lease. They refused.
At 12:01 AM (a minute after midnight) on the 31st day, they broke into the store and moved everything they could into the aisles of her retail business. They then changed the locks on the rear entry (after breaking the old ones off) and erected a wall. (Studs, drywall, the whole shebang) between her store and the area they wanted. The property that was left, printing press, photo equip, refrigerator, kitchen stuff, shelving, etc. was left behind those walls, and if she had gone in to retrieve them, she would have been arrested.
They did this under the watchful eye of the tribal police.
They then told every Tribal agency and their tribal members NOT to purchase anything there. Taking more than 1/2 of the business away from her store.
After nearly 2 years of legal wrangling, going through the tribal court, Federal Court, and tribal appeals court, Federal Appeals Court, etc. they were told that the tribe had Immunity and no court had jurisdiction in the case, unless the Tribe themselves gave permission to the court.
She eventually moved the store and quit paying rent to those thieves, who then sent her a bill for over $30,000 dollars for supposedly unpaid rent. She filed bankruptcy, sending the Tribe notice that they could include that 30 grand in the bankruptcy. They never did, because they then would have enjoined themselves to the court, and the bankruptcy court would have held jurisdiction over the lease provisions. If that had happened, the Tribes would have lost, and been liable for triple damages to my folks.
Turns out that they had a renter for the space that was willing to pay twice what my Mom was. This was a direct and deliberate attempt to run my Mom out. And it worked.
So when they send you the bill for 2,3 or 4 times what you're paying now, and your lease says otherwise, you have 2 choices. Pay it. Or abandon it.
Because the lease don't mean nuttin.
Or it could accidentally catch fire. :devil:

[uvindex]

At 12:01 AM (a minute after midnight) on the 31st day, they broke into the store and moved everything they could into the aisles of her retail business. They then changed the locks on the rear entry (after breaking the old ones off) and erected a wall. (Studs, drywall, the whole shebang) between her store and the area they wanted.Jeez, that is a terrible story. I'm sorry to hear that such a thing happened, and to your own mother no less. :(

[2Driver]

And "fair market value" will be through the roof..
That story is appauling and seems to be closer to the norm I hear. I bought at moonridge and owned the land. I would never recommend being part of those Bast-urds and their deals. All that and they have their own casino, pay no taxes and when there is a DWI and a death they run back to the RES and get away with it. :idea:

[Rexone]

I would never lease or rent anything from the indians. I don't care how desireable the property might be. Why subject yourself to that abuse?
Did I ever tell you about my experience at the bluewater casino? :(
Oh nevermind. I don't go there either.

[Riverkid]

Did I ever tell you about my experience at the bluewater casino? :(
Spill it!!!

[Rexone]

Spill it!!!
I just love Bluewater (http://www2.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?p=909710)

[Boatcop]

All that and they have their own casino, pay no taxes and when there is a DWI and a death they run back to the RES and get away with it.
Not sticking up for them, but if they commit a crime off the Reservation, we can and do prosecute them. There are numerous Indians in the State Pen that we put there for crimes they've committed off the res, including manslaughter from DUI.s with a fatality. We may have to go through extradition proceedings to get the Tribe to turn them over, but so far we've never been turned down. Even if they don't agree to the extradition, they have to leave the Res sometime. And when they do, they're ours.
On the other hand, Non-Indians cannot commit a crime against an Indian on the reservation. Since Indians on the Res have no standing in State Court, non-indians can't be prosecuted by the state courts where an Indian is a victim (on the Res). The Federal Courts can prosecute, but it needs to be investigated and charges brought by the FBI and the Federal Prosecutor. They're too busy to worry about minor crimes on a remote reservation.
Case in point. One local woman was returning from the Casino, drunk, swerved into the oncoming lane, head-on into a car with 2 (sober) Indians. She wasn't injured, and the Indians were killed. We booked her for the DUI, and any other charges were referred to the Federal Prosecutor. Nothings been done, even on the local DUI, since we can't prosecute that for fear of attaching jeopardy to the case. She'll probably get away with it.
Also, I could smack my wife around and wouldn't get in any legal trouble over it. (She's Cherokee) Although, legal troubles would be the least of my worries. :hammerhea
Keep in mind that these provisions are in Arizona. California is different. Public Law 280, which is mandatory in California, allows State Courts and Police to have jurisdiction over Indians. Which is why you never see our indians living or hanging out on the California Side of the River.
They do pay Federal Taxes, same as anyone else, and sales tax for purchases made off the Res. It's only Property tax for land owned within the Res, sales tax on the Res, and State income tax from Reservation sources that's not taxable. As far as Property tax goes, the Counties get payment "in lieu" of taxes from the Federal Government for any Government owned or exempt property that is not taxable, like BLM land, Military Bases, Reservation land, National Parks, etc.

[Forkin' Crazy]

Or it could accidentally catch fire. :devil:
I was thinking of a lightning strike. :burningm:
Man that is horrible. Those bastards!!! :mad:

[H2OT TIMES]

Ah, the Noble American Indian. There are exceptions, of course, the sad thing is that they ARE exceptions.

[Riverkid]

I guess we were lucky that the three fire alarms that woke us up there last time we stayed wasn't a real fire... :confused:

[Boatcop]

You say you can smack your wife around and not git got for it. Now is that on the res or just any place as she's an Indian.
Only on a Reservation established for a Federally recognized Indian Tribe.
You don't live on the res do you?
Yes I do. The Town of Parker is within the external boundaries of the reservation. To anticipate your next question, I DO hold legal title to my land, with no involvement from the Tribe whatsoever.
Also, Parker is not a Cherokee reservation so what would her status be?
She is considered a "Non-Affiliated Indian" of the Tribe. She doesn't qualify for any benefits from the local Tribe, but has the legal status of any Native American on any Reservation. For example, she does pay State Taxes on income and sales, however she does not pay property tax on her half of the house. The property tax deal is different from income or sales taxes, because of an inherent right of Indian land ownership, as opposed to just owning "things" like money or goods.
Also, what about divorce laws? Do reservations perform divorces?
Tribal Courts only have jurisdiction over Divorces that occur from marriage licenses that were Issued by the Tribe.
I would find it hard to believe that the state would treat Indians as secondary citizens when you say that a Non-Indian can't commit a crime against an Indian on the res. Wouldn't the state just turn whomever back over to the tribal police and then God help um?
The Tribal Police aren't involved. It's the Tribal Courts that have no jurisdiction over non-Indians.
From your example, it would appear that it could be open season on Indians and if you escape across the river(off the res) then you're home free.
Again, fleeing off the Res doesn't matter. The state doesn't recognize Indians as victims, and the Tribal Courts don't have jurisdiction over non-Indians. You could punch an Indian in the face and stand there laughing in the face of the Tribal Police. They couldn't do anything.
Well, almost, anyway. In that instance you could be charged in State Court with "Disorderly Conduct" which includes "Engaging in Fighting", which does not require a victim. The Tribal Police attend our Academies and are Certified as State Peace Officers, which give them State Police Powers over non-Indians, However you would be booked into the County Jail, and prosecuted by State Courts, not Tribal jail or Tribal Courts
In a Supreme Court decision, even resisting arrest, assault on a Peace Officer, and other crimes do not apply if the Officer is Indian and it occurs on the Res. The Officer must be a registered member of a tribe, and not just employed by the Tribal Police. This occurs even if the Officer is a member of another non-tribal Department. My son, for example is a SO Deputy, but as a registered Cherokee, cannot be a victim of resisting arrest or assault on a LEO, if it happens on the Res by a non Indian.
Crimes committed on the Res by Indians against non-Indians are prosecuted by Tribal Courts.
As far as your ex-wife being Cherokee, was she a card carrying member? That is the deciding factor, not just a claim of having Cherokee (or other) blood. There are thousands of people out there who claim that they are 1/2 or 1/4 (or whatever} Cherokee since they heard that their grandmother was Cherokee. There are very few people who have high degrees of Cherokee blood, since the Cherokees intermarried with whites earily on, more so than any other tribe. The provision for citizenship in the Cherokee Nation is a direct proven descendant to a person who was listed as a member on the Dawes Rolls of 1898-1906. Blood quantum doesn't matter for Cherokees, nor for Chickasaw, Seminole, Choctaw, or Creek, the so-called "5 Civilized Tribes".
Out of the 250,000 or so citizens of the Cherokee Nation, less than 5% have more than 1/2 degree of Cherokee blood. Most are lower that 1/64.
Now far all those who've gotten traffic tickets by the CRIT Police down in the valley, they DO have jurisdiction over non-Indians through their civil (not criminal) code. If you don't pay the fine, they can't arrest you, or suspend your driver's license, but they can (and do) consider it a legal debt, and can ding your credit record.
That's why I've never built over in Big River as I just plain don't trust what they say.
Be careful. Big River is on the Res, and under the control of CRIT.
Indian Law is very complex and confusing. It changes often as cases regarding Indian rights and sovereignty issues go through the Courts. Those of us in LE over here really have to stay up on it.

[Boatcop]

What I'm getting at is _is it possible to target the most expensive homes as it only goes to reason that those owners (leasors) could afford more? Or to basically state" how much money you got? we want it."???
They can pretty much do anything they want. Target specific lots, the entire development, or just Riverfront property. If you remember, several years ago, Big River Development Co. had the lease with the tribes, and the residents had the lease with the Development. When BRDC went insolvent, the Tribes took over the operation of the entire complex and wrote BRDC off. Up to this point they have chosen to honor the current leases, however, since those leases were with a now non-existent entity, they can pretty much do what they want.
Those who stick-built houses down there have the most to lose. Because guess what? Once you erect a permanent structure on Federal Land, it becomes the property of the Federal entity that owns the land. It is not, by definition and Supreme Court Ruling, your house. You are only using it. No matter how much, or who paid to construct it. If the Indians ordered you out, you would receive no compensation for your interest in the house, even if you just finished building it, and have Hundreds of Thousands of dollars invested. It belongs to them. This is not just for indian Land, but any permanent structure on any Government controlled land.
As an example. Bradley Chevrolet. Buildings are owned by the Tribe. Badenochs? Buildings owned by the Tribe. Big River...The Dock restaurant? Same thing. The Marina Room, Outer Harbor, And all permanent structures (Except the new Condos) at Havasu Springs? Owned by the BLM.
There is no way that I would build a house on leased land, no matter how long that lease is for. Especially on Indian Leased land. They can take it away from you in a heart-beat, and you'll have no recourse whatsoever.
An up-side to that, and the basis for declaring them Govt. Property, is that the people in control of those buildings do not pay Property tax on those buildings. Pre-fabs, doublewides, park models, and other "Mobile" homes are not Government Property and do have to pay Personal Property Tax or vehicle license tax (if they keep them registered as "Trailers") as long as they are not permanently anchored to the soil, and can be removed on wheels, no matter how long they've been there, or what demolition it would take to remove them. Again, High Court decisions.

[ColeTR2]

In tell I moved here I had no clue about all this. And it goes much deeper 90% of the Indians Hate anyone that’s not an Indian. They will not hold a door open for you they will talk $h!t about you behind your back. And if they assault you or your girl friend / wife they will run back to the reservation. They can get away with murder. I will not spend any of my money at the casino.

[sxpilot]

I managed a Big Motorcycle Service Center in Parker, although my time there was limited I got to see the Indian Arogance in person...they would buy these quads, and bikes with Free money and just beat the sh@t out of them, then just drop em off and abandon them, just to turn around again and buy a new one's...
Also for the most part they are Rude people that walk around thinking we owe them for something...I dont get it, but my thinking is they can all kiss my ass!
One ran into my buddies rigg, they took off and fled back to the res...not a trace, and the local cops even though we had the licence and discriptions of them said "walk away its not worth pursuing"...we were like WTF???
Anyway BEEEE Careful ! :boxingguy

[termiteguy]

my folks live in river reflections on the cali side it is indian land what tribe own that land?

[Boatcop]

they would buy these quads, and bikes with Free money
Again, this is a misconception. The CRIT Members get no cash money from the Tribe or the Federal Government. Except for the "Elders" who get their utilities paid for by the tribe, so they can be indebted to those few in power. Native culture dictates that they treat the elders with respect and follow their wishes. So when the elders tell their families to vote for So-and-so on the Council because they pay for their electric bill, they are obligated to do so. Hence, the council members keep the elders happy, and they keep getting re-elected.
Even the ones who are voted out of office are placed in high appointed positions within tribal government, so they never really give up control.
The only ones who realize any "free" money are those few tribal members who actually own land (historically given to families back in the 1930s) on the Res and that land is leased to other entities, like farms and such. No cash is given to any of the rank and file tribal members from profits of the Casino or any other ventures.
But for some odd reason, it's the families and close connections of the Council Members and others in power that seem to have all the toys, SUVs new houses, etc. with little or no visible means of support.
Wonder why that is? :squiggle:

[Boatcop]

my folks live in river reflections on the cali side it is indian land what tribe own that land?
Colorado River Indian Tribes

[sxpilot]

Again, this is a misconception. The CRIT Members get no cash money from the Tribe or the Federal Government. Except for the "Elders" who get their utilities paid for by the tribe, so they can be indebted to those few in power. Native culture dictates that they treat the elders with respect and follow their wishes. So when the elders tell their families to vote for So-and-so on the Council because they pay for their electric bill, they are obligated to do so. Hence, the council members keep the elders happy, and they keep getting re-elected.
Even the ones who are voted out of office are placed in high appointed positions within tribal government, so they never really give up control.
The only ones who realize any "free" money are those few tribal members who actually own land (historically given to families back in the 1930s) on the Res and that land is leased to other entities, like farms and such. No cash is given to any of the rank and file tribal members from profits of the Casino or any other ventures.
But for some odd reason, it's the families and close connections of the Council Members and others in power that seem to have all the toys, SUVs new houses, etc. with little or no visible means of support.
Wonder why that is? :squiggle:
Good points, all I know is what they told me...they said and I quote "these were givin to us a few months ago, if it costs too much to fix ,dont because we will just get new ones" ...oh yeah and everything should be cover under the warrenty right???
Aparently these were the few choosn ones that had the toys for free...

[Just Tool'n]

All I can say is it's amazing.
And just think, it took just a little over 100 years for that totally worthless land that we gave to the indian tribes to become really valuable.
The indians think they really got the wrong end of the deal 100 years ago.
It just took them this long for them to apply their laws to benefit them, & make themselfs rich by being a sovergein nation. Plus all of the exemptions they get.

[djunkie]

I'm just curious as to how many people who have homes on the Indian land will keep them. They pay an unreal amount of money now and who knows what they will raise it to. If these people give up their places and leave what will the Indians do with it? Build another casino? The Parker strip is WAY past its capacity as it is. Its too bad. I hate to see my friends have to give up their vacation homes. F-the CRIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Boatcop]

If these people give up their places and leave what will the Indians do with it? Build another casino?
There has been talk of a condo complex in the works. Just the pre-planning stage. I don't know if they would force (by way of higher leases) people out of their vacation homes for it, since they have so much vacant land along the Strip as it is.
More than likely they would tear down or refurbish the older ones so they could garner even higher lease fees.
Another casino in the same area of the BWC isn't feasible. Too much expense for little return. They are limited by compact of the number of slot machines and gaming tables they can have, and spreading them out over 2 Casinos would hurt both.
They are in talks of another Casino, but that would be on the California side. Discussion so far has centered on putting it in Blythe, at the corner of Intake and Hobsonway. Although that would give the city of Blythe too much control, since it wouldn't be physically located on the Res. I look for the CRIT's California Casino to be further up-river, along the old Red Rooster/Aha Quinn corridor.
A little known fact is that CRIT receives in the neighborhood of a million dollars a year from the California Tribes that have gaming. Since the have a reservation presence in California, and no Gaming on their California land, they are considered a Non-Gaming California Tribe, and are paid by Tribes that do have Casinos. The fact that they have one in Arizona doesn't matter.

[djunkie]

Hey Alan, do you happen to know anything about the owners of that new house that was built in the cove across from Badenochs? With a place like that their either buddy buddy with the CRIT, they are CRIT, or they just got WAYYYYYY too much money.

[haulina29]

Arizona needs to sack up ?

[Rexone]

I look for the CRIT's California Casino to be further up-river, along the old Red Rooster/Aha Quinn corridor..
I spent considerable time at RR in my high school years and shortly after. Had a friend whos folks had a trailer there.
Then the indians kicked everybody out and bulldozed the place. :messedup:

[Boatcop]

Hey Alan, do you happen to know anything about the owners of that new house that was built in the cove across from Badenochs? With a place like that their either buddy buddy with the CRIT, they are CRIT, or they just got WAYYYYYY too much money.
The wife of the owner is a CRIT member with family ties to the Tribal elite.

[djunkie]

The wife of the owner is a CRIT member with family ties to the Tribal elite.
Thanks. I kinda figured it was something like that.

[outboardrick]

Was following the discussion. I'm going to Bluewater for the first time next weekend and taking the boat. Any security problems with leaving the boat overnight?
Thanks,
Rick

[totenhosen]

We had a client that did about $430k worth in construction work to one of the Indian casinos that the Indians decided to not pay on. This guy has no legal recourse has he can't file any mechanics liens, UCC filings etc. He is more than likely going to have to write it all off.

[little rowe boat]

I was thinking of a lightning strike. :burningm:
Man that is horrible. Those bastards!!! :mad:
Works for me. :D

[welk2party]

We had a client that did about $430k worth in construction work to one of the Indian casinos that the Indians decided to not pay on. This guy has no legal recourse has he can't file any mechanics liens, UCC filings etc. He is more than likely going to have to write it all off.
DAAAAAAAAAAAA MMMMNNN! That is a hickey for sure! :devil:

[welk2party]

I am one of those 1/4 Cherokee...I looked into the possibiloty of any benefits....NONE for me! My Grandmother lived on a reservation, but the records were vague according to the records. It was interesting digging in to the past though. Found out some things on the family that made me say..."No chit!".
I have heard, as have many others, the bad stories when the Indians decide they want something you happen to be in the way of....BAD NEWS!

[Boatcop]

I am one of those 1/4 Cherokee...I looked into the possibiloty of any benefits....NONE for me! My Grandmother lived on a reservation, but the records were vague according to the records. It was interesting digging in to the past though. Found out some things on the family that made me say..."No chit!".
Which Cherokee reservation? The only 2 recognized by the Federal Government is Cherokee Nation East (Tennessee) and Cherokee Nation West (Oklahoma).
I have access to dozens of sources on Cherokee liineage, including most of the rolls that Cherokees were placed on. If you give me the name of the relative who may have been on those rolls, I can probably find something. Your Grandmother probably isn't on any of them. Unless she was alive before 1906, when the census was done for them. That's just a guess, since it's my wife's great-grandmother who was listed, and she was only 13 at the time. Maybe your grandmother's parents might be listed.
As far as 1/4, again, I highly doubt it. As I said, Cherokees intermingled with white traders, Military, settlers, etc, so much that the bloodline was mostly diluted. My wife's great-great-great-Grandmother walked to Oklahoma on the Trail of Tears in the early 1800's, and her blood degree is listed as 1/8. Now that's the official listed degree, but the actual is higher, since the bloodline is usually taken through the maternal lines, and some of the husbands also were of mix-blood Cherokee.
It's true not many benefits are available for Cherokee Citizens living outside of Cherokee Indian Territory (There is no more "Reservation" in Oklahoma) Free health care at any Indian Health Service Facilities, and hiring preference for those facilities and some other Federal Jobs, are a couple. You can also check the "Native American" box on Federal job applications, College entry applications, and other such things. Not enough to get those things by themselves, but enough to break a tie with another qualified applicant.
All you need to do is find that relative the is on the rolls, and obtain certified birth and/or death certificates for everyone between you and them, and you can apply to become a citizen. If you qualify, then your children, grandchildren, and any future descendants can also be registered.
Sometimes, though, people find things they didn't expect. I had a friend who heard that he was Cherokee and asked me if I could find something out. Well, turns out that his great-(x3) grandmother WAS adopted into the Cherokee Tribe back in the mid 1860s, but she was listed as a "negro slave" or "freedmen" on the rolls. No one in their family realized that they had any black blood. Talk about a surprise!
If you give me some family names, I could probably find the info you need. and get you started.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

We had a client that did about $430k worth in construction work to one of the Indian casinos that the Indians decided to not pay on. This guy has no legal recourse has he can't file any mechanics liens, UCC filings etc. He is more than likely going to have to write it all off.
How in the hell can the government let that happen? I understand the soverign Nation BS and all that, but DAMN!