Carbon Kevlar DCB?

[F26]

What are the lay-up options other than glass at DCB now? I saw Carbon/Kevlar with carbon fiber supports at extreme marines website.
Any new news?

[Screaming Pete]

what about doing one infused, it would make it a lighter and stronger boat??

[BLOWN HOWARD]

They would have to have Wes do it for them. Then it would be bad ass!!!

[UnionJack]

I have all that stuff done to the boat

[F26]

any lightweight layup options in the future?... DCB?

[Charley]

In the time it takes you to push 10 buttons you could start having all your carbon questions answered rather than letting the slow internet response bunch your panties try 1 - 6 - 1 - 9 - 4 - 4 - 2 - 0 - 3 - 0 - 0 :D

[weekendwarrior]

:wink: i'll be waiting to see how yer boys at dcb answer f26's questions in regard to carbon/kevlar and thier "process".
In the world of composites, does the u.s. use the term "carbon" or "graphite"?
So do you think your general fiberglass guy can do a proper "carbon" or "graphite" repair ?
I wonder if those that are dabbling in this type of composites are storing thier materials correctly ?
:wink:
You don't need carbon or graphite to make a light boat. Graphite is a Gucci cosmetic thing. Kevlar is another issue, But vacuum bagging would make a lighter boat. Besides, you can throw enough horsepower at anything with a good bottom to make them go fast. You being a Shiada guy should know that. I don't think DCB is behind anybody when it comes to lay-up. Even if they use a standard wet lay-up. Proper placement of bulk-heads, and the correct thickness is what you want in a pleasure boat. Besides who wants a super light cat for recreational use? Longevity is most important.

[Charley]

:wink: i'll be waiting to see how yer boys at dcb answer f26's questions in regard to carbon/kevlar and thier "process".
In the world of composites, does the u.s. use the term "carbon" or "graphite"?
So do you think your general fiberglass guy can do a proper "carbon" or "graphite" repair ?
I wonder if those that are dabbling in this type of composites are storing thier materials correctly ?
:wink:
do we have a little hard on for DCB?? wtf?

[Charley]

Charley, I happen to like DCB's just fine thanks. I know in the Aerospace world of building "Composite" type aircraft, Airbus, Boeing, Cirrus etc... there is a correct way to do a "graphite" layup, wet or prepreg, and a huge wrong way. Most mfg, i.e. Airbus, Boeing have thier own processes, the rest of the industry uses alot of thier procedures and technologies to do thier "graphite" layups. Depending on how you align each "ply" gives you varied strength, bend charateristics, some layups are for primary structure, others for secondary structure. I remember a few mfg dabbling with "graphite" boats and found the cost to be extreme, and the boat was to stiff.
And storing the stuff is life critical to the material and resins, even fiberglass and its resins need to be properly stored.
Thats all, nothing heavy duty, just curious how yer DCB boys do it, or are attempting to do it.
Scott. :wink:
Ok, well my apologies, I obviously misread your intention here.... I honestly do not know the method in which DCB is laying up the Carbon materials they are using....It sounds as if you are knowledgeable in this area, maybe I could get you and Dave on the phone sometime...I'm sure if nothing else, he could pick your brain and possibly pick up something from the talk<s>...If you are interested in Chatting PM me

[F26]

In the time it takes you to push 10 buttons you could start having all your carbon questions answered rather than letting the slow internet response bunch your panties try 1 - 6 - 1 - 9 - 4 - 4 - 2 - 0 - 3 - 0 - 0 :D
HUFFPOWER you could just cut out the as$clowns and call Dave
directly too! :D

[F26]

thanks for the info

[Carbon Dave]

You don't need carbon or graphite to make a light boat. Graphite is a Gucci cosmetic thing.
Not if it is done correctly. You can definitly make something lighter using carbon.
Now is cabon the ideal material for a boat? Probably not. Carbon has poor impact resistance. Yes it is strong but hit it hard enough and it will break apart unlike fiberglass which will give. Not to say that fiberglass will not crack. The ultimate strength of fiberglass is not as high.
I would think in a boat a combination or glass and carbon could be utilized.

[riverroyal]

cant the boat be too light?Or is it that they can put less HP motors in it and still get good speeds?I think you can get too light which isnt safe at all

[weekendwarrior]

I would think in a boat a combination or glass and carbon could be utilized.[/QUOTE]
Ok, I'll humor you for a second. Here are my thoughts. If you choose to either use carbon as a sandwich construction, or you use it to strengthen an inner or outer laminant, you may run into some problems. Remembr we are talking carbon thick enough to be a strucural not a cosmetic. Carbon that is put into the laminant to be structural can be too stiff for the rest of the laminant under pressure and when the other lams will flex the carbon won't. This will cause a delamination on a catistrophic level. I've seen it before and it is a bummer, and really hard to fix. Like I said this is my opinion.

[Froggystyle]

I don't think DCB is behind anybody when it comes to lay-up.
Yes they are. By a lot.

[Dave C]

wasn't this covered in another thread a while back??.. there was some good infor in there about various processes
something about the % of resin used and the resulting weight.

[weekendwarrior]

Yes they are. By a lot.
Every one is behind Trident then right? There's more than one way to build a bitchen boat. So ease up off your high horse.

[Froggystyle]

Every one is behind Trident then right? There's more than one way to build a bitchen boat. So ease up off your high horse.
Skater is destroying Dave on layup. So is MTI and others. With vacuum bagging and urethane foam cores they come out way on top. Outerlimits is offering an epoxy layup. Lavey even semi-vacuum bags boats right now.
Sea-Ray is using a two piece male/female mold with resin injected into the laminate. Fiber volume nearly unmatched in the industry.
Plus, a little startup out of El Cajon is using a 1.25" SAN linear foam core/resin infusion process that yields a boat 1.6# per foot. That is vs. 7#'s and up for DCB.
There is more to carbon and kevlar than using it in lieu of S-glass. This I assure you.
Dave is by no means leading the pack on layup. Or gelcoat. Everything else????
Yeah. DCB's kick ass. They are my favorite boat on the market, and Dave is a friend of mine. I would buy a boat from him, and recommend him to others heavily. My favorite so far is UJ's. When I buy a go-fast, it will likely be a DCB.

[CornWater]

Plus, a little startup out of El Cajon is using a 1.25" SAN linear foam core/resin infusion process that yields a boat 1.6# per foot. That is vs. 7#'s and up for DCB.
Wes, when you are speaking of 1.6#/ft, are you referring to cubic feet? Just trying to figure out how you equate a weight to a lineal dimension.

[Froggystyle]

Wes, when you are speaking of 1.6#/ft, are you referring to cubic feet? Just trying to figure out how you equate a weight to a lineal dimension.
Square foot of boat hull. Simple calculation for engineers to ascertain.

[CornWater]

Square foot of boat hull. Simple calculation for engineers to ascertain.
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_11.gif

[Dave C]

so that fawker is really that light?? Damn! I gotta see this in person.......

[Froggystyle]

Come down and check out Dave's new boats and swing by on your way home. (That is my trick for getting people out to El Cajon... ;) )

[Charley]

Hmmmm

[Charley]

:eat:

[Froggystyle]

Do you know when the first Magazine is going to do a write up on your rig and its performance? It would be nice to get another unbiased oppinion! It all sounds great but the proof is in the pudding so they say.. :)
Do you know when the first Magazine is going to do a write up on your rig and its performance? It would be nice to get another unbiased oppinion! It all sounds great but the proof is in the pudding so they say.. :)
Come on down. We have samples of our boat that we have cut out vs. the competition etc... Proof is in the pudding as they say.
Magazines won't weigh the boat. Never do. Too bad. But, the performance will speak for itself.
Seriously, come take a look.
Wes

[weekendwarrior]

Skater is destroying Dave on layup. So is MTI and others. With vacuum bagging and urethane foam cores they come out way on top. Outerlimits is offering an epoxy layup. Lavey even semi-vacuum bags boats right now.
Sea-Ray is using a two piece male/female mold with resin injected into the laminate. Fiber volume nearly unmatched in the industry.
Plus, a little startup out of El Cajon is using a 1.25" SAN linear foam core/resin infusion process that yields a boat 1.6# per foot. That is vs. 7#'s and up for DCB.
There is more to carbon and kevlar than using it in lieu of S-glass. This I assure you.
Dave is by no means leading the pack on layup. Or gelcoat. Everything else????
Yeah. DCB's kick ass. They are my favorite boat on the market, and Dave is a friend of mine. I would buy a boat from him, and recommend him to others heavily. My favorite so far is UJ's. When I buy a go-fast, it will likely be a DCB.
So tell me something, what is the weight of a standard wet- layup boat of your size? How much does your hull weigh? Just bare hull. What is the actual weight difference between these to styles of lamination? Just curious

[Froggystyle]

So tell me something, what is the weight of a standard wet- layup boat of your size? How much does your hull weigh? Just bare hull. What is the actual weight difference between these to styles of lamination? Just curious
Well, interesting question. Most people you ask will give you a number, but have never weighed their hulls. Additionally, there is every single configuration on the planet available for interior/hull options, so it is tough to compare apples to apples.
But, the average Conquest/Eliminator/Commander/Magic etc... deckboat has a lined top mold, as we do. They also have helms in place, but no ramps. But, for the sake of comparison, they will work. An outfitted above mentioned deckboat with interior, normally aspirated engine and bravo drive and basic stereo weighs about 5400# or so. Add a blower, intercooler, transmission, external steering, big audio system and battery bank and they can easily tip 6000#.
Ours weighs 3580# with everything, including audio, three batteries, ramp, interior, fuel tank and intercooled twin turbo motor in front of the dual drive. Bare hull is 1800# with helm hatch and ramp. Easily a 2000+ pound savings on the hull, or nearly half the weight. Our boat with fourteen people in it weighs the same as an empty Magic. Two people can pick up the complete deck, which is the outer hull and interior seat bases and backs.
As I have mentioned before, the industry is well over 7 pounds per square foot on their hull laminates. Parts of several boats like the transom (two layers of 3/4" plywood with a ton of glass) top 12 pounds per square foot. Ours is between 1.6 and 1.9# for the hull laminates. Some of our small parts are built conventionally as there was no real savings in infusing bins and cupholders, but all of the structural parts weigh about that.
We are expecting a 80 pound weight loss on this last boat we built as well. Some changes in the schedule based on destructive testing of prior schedules allowed us to remove quite a bit of laminate from different parts of the boat.
All of this comes at a price, but to us it was certainly worth it.

[WetWillie]

Do you know when the first Magazine is going to do a write up on your rig and its performance? It would be nice to get another unbiased oppinion! It all sounds great but the proof is in the pudding so they say.. :)