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DAVEO
11-08-2005, 08:20 AM
GO VOTE
Shut down the puppet in office. We must stop him before he ruines california.

Stoneman
11-08-2005, 08:23 AM
GO VOTE
Shut down the puppet in office. We must stop him before he ruines california.
Man, are you lost!

MagicMtnDan
11-08-2005, 08:25 AM
Just wait til you and the others get your wish. In a couple years you'll be wishing for the good old days of 2005 and regretting not voting for the propositions.
The next governor will be far more liberal than Arnold and while that may make the liberals happy it's going to continue to drive more and more people and companies out of California.
This state is on the edge of financial instability and the legislature has been driving it there as quickly as possible.
When the unions get their way, who will pay for it? :mad:

Mandelon
11-08-2005, 08:27 AM
GO VOTE
Shut down the puppet in office. We must stop him before he ruines california.
Which union do you work for? :eek:

Havasu_Dreamin
11-08-2005, 08:28 AM
GO VOTE
I plan to.
[Shut down the puppet in office. We must stop him before he ruines california.
I did, that's why I voted against Gray Davis two years ago. :D

6 Dollar Boat
11-08-2005, 08:29 AM
GO VOTE
I did, can you say YES!!!

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 08:31 AM
Which union do you work for? :eek:
DC 16 local 12.

ChumpChange
11-08-2005, 08:33 AM
GO VOTE
Just for you. But I'll be voting the opposite of you.

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 08:33 AM
Man, are you lost!
Do you even have a clue?

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 08:35 AM
I cant beleve all of you. You must be in big business. Just sh@! on the working man.

Kachina26
11-08-2005, 08:36 AM
GO VOTE
Shut down the puppet in office. We must stop him before he ruines california.
I did! But not how you wanted. I would think you would want a little education reform, "ruines" . :confused: :D:D:D J/K Exercise your freedom brotha, It's too bad most folks don't. Actually, after talking to most folks, I'm kinda glad they don't vote.

Havasu_Dreamin
11-08-2005, 08:38 AM
Actually, after talking to most folks, I'm kinda glad they don't vote.
EXACTLY! I firmly believe that at least 70% of the voting populace is totally uninformed and uses only what the talking heads on TV tell them or what the ads on TV tell them.
Great meeting you this past weekend LHC BTW.

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 08:38 AM
Just wait til you and the others get your wish. In a couple years you'll be wishing for the good old days of 2005 and regretting not voting for the propositions.
The next governor will be far more liberal than Arnold and while that may make the liberals happy it's going to continue to drive more and more people and companies out of California.
This state is on the edge of financial instability and the legislature has been driving it there as quickly as possible.
When the unions get their way, who will pay for it? :mad:
arnold liberal yah right he is a puppet doing anything he is told. the unions are what set the standerd for your wages anywhere.

Kachina26
11-08-2005, 08:39 AM
I cant beleve all of you. You must be in big business. Just sh@! on the working man.
Nope, I'm a workin' stiff. I just can't afford to pay for all the wonderful programs that come down the pike. Just because something is a good idea and might help those in need, doesn't mean you have the cash to pay for it. If I ran my household the way the legislature ran the state, I'd have filed for BK a long time ago.

little rowe boat
11-08-2005, 08:40 AM
Just wait til you and the others get your wish. In a couple years you'll be wishing for the good old days of 2005 and regretting not voting for the propositions.
The next governor will be far more liberal than Arnold and while that may make the liberals happy it's going to continue to drive more and more people and companies out of California.
This state is on the edge of financial instability and the legislature has been driving it there as quickly as possible.
When the unions get their way, who will pay for it? :mad:
We aren't trying to get our way. We just know best. :yuk:

Havasu_Dreamin
11-08-2005, 08:42 AM
We aren't trying to get our way. We just know best. :yuk:
Well, in theory then that is your way! :p LMAO

deltarat
11-08-2005, 08:44 AM
Which union do you work for? :eek:
IBEW Local 302 and I have already voted ;)

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 08:45 AM
IBEW Local 302 and I have already voted ;)
Cool

deltarat
11-08-2005, 08:46 AM
I cant beleve all of you. You must be in big business. Just sh@! on the working man.
I thought you were out of work for a while :hammerhea

deltarat
11-08-2005, 08:47 AM
arnold liberal yah right he is a puppet doing anything he is told. the unions are what set the standerd for your wages anywhere.
Amen to that brother.

Stoneman
11-08-2005, 08:47 AM
Do you even have a clue?
I sat down with a beer and voted YES!

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 08:47 AM
I am 3 weeks

little rowe boat
11-08-2005, 08:48 AM
IAFF local 1067. So have I.

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 08:48 AM
I sat down with a beer and voted YES!
THERE GOES CALIFORNIA

Havasu_Dreamin
11-08-2005, 08:49 AM
the unions are what set the standerd for your wages anywhere.
Maybe for union jobs but since I don't work in a union industry, they don't affect me at all.

Jeanyus
11-08-2005, 08:50 AM
Get out and vote. California is broken and needs fixing. We elected Arnold to change things, if we don't vote to change things, then nothing will change.
Yes on 74-77

Stoneman
11-08-2005, 08:50 AM
THERE GOES CALIFORNIA
Move away then! Bye

SummitKarl
11-08-2005, 08:51 AM
unions had their purpose...50 YEARS AGO!!!!! now we have laws on the books that do what the original intent of Unions were for.
I say stand on your own two feet, make your own decisions and let your work ethic determine your fate :jawdrop: yea, yea God Forbid anyone should be responsible for them selves :hammer2:

Havasu_Dreamin
11-08-2005, 08:52 AM
THERE GOES CALIFORNIA
This State has been going down the drain for YEARS. If you can't see that, well, I don't know what to tell you.

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 08:52 AM
Maybe for union jobs but since I don't work in a union industry, they don't affect me at all.
Who told you that. That is wrong it regulates all wages not just union wages.
Union wages set the base for all wages in the working trades.

tcook33
11-08-2005, 08:53 AM
arnold liberal yah right he is a puppet doing anything he is told. the unions are what set the standerd for your wages anywhere.
Call me crazy, but isn't that what he is there for...to be a puppet? Do you really think he makes the decisions? That's what his staff, amongst others, are for. Quit with the puppet crap....we all know he's a puppet...just like Bush...move on..

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 08:53 AM
Move away then! Bye
EAT ME

deltarat
11-08-2005, 08:54 AM
THERE GOES CALIFORNIA
Easy on the Beer drinkers there Oduals boy :boxingguy

Havasu_Dreamin
11-08-2005, 08:55 AM
Who told you that. That is wrong it regulates all wages not just union wages.
Union wages set the base for all wages in the working trades.
A union has NO impact on my wages since I do not work in the traditional trades you are speaking of.

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 08:56 AM
Call me crazy, but isn't that what he is there for...to be a puppet? Do you really think he makes the decisions? That's what his staff, amongst others, are for. Quit with the puppet crap....we all know he's a puppet...just like Bush...move on..
Thats why they all need to go.

Havasu_Dreamin
11-08-2005, 08:57 AM
Call me crazy, but isn't that what he is there for...to be a puppet? Do you really think he makes the decisions? That's what his staff, amongst others, are for. Quit with the puppet crap....we all know he's a puppet...just like Bush...move on..
That applies to every politician ever elected.

NOCTURNAL
11-08-2005, 08:57 AM
Daveo -
Actually, performance sets wages.
If you are good at what you do, why would you want to limit your wages by hanging out with a union? The market sets the wage. Risk versus reward. You obviously don't have the nuts to strike it out on your own to see if you are as good as the union makes you think you are.
It's like they say, those that can, become entrepreneurs, those that can't, join a union.
Have a nice day.

deltarat
11-08-2005, 08:57 AM
Maybe for union jobs but since I don't work in a union industry, they don't affect me at all.
I garinte (sp) that the Unions wage scale effect you more than you know. Lets talk about what you pay for your day to day services. Or maybe you would rather talk about all the teamster hauling you fuel to the stations so you closed minded ass can go fuel your boat!

Jeanyus
11-08-2005, 08:57 AM
Gotta love it, when guys with cushy state jobs are posting from thier computers at work, on the taxpayers dime. Did the union call in extra employees, and pay them overtime to post on Hot Boat?

Mrs. Bordsmnj
11-08-2005, 08:57 AM
unions had their purpose...50 YEARS AGO!!!!! now we have laws on the books that do what the original intent of Unions were for.
I say stand on your own two feet, make your own decisions and let your work ethic determine your fate :jawdrop: yea, yea God Forbid anyone should be responsible for them selves :hammer2:
My husband is IBEW Local 441 and is not a piece of crap that cannot stand on his own two feet. Not every union or every union member is a lazy piece of shit like you seem think. :eat:

Stoneman
11-08-2005, 08:58 AM
My wife's in a union, she knows thier full of shit too.
I worked for GTE for a year (CWA), biggest waste of time I ever spent. Got yelled at by union for working too hard... go figure.

PalapaHead
11-08-2005, 08:59 AM
THERE GOES CALIFORNIA
Ignorance is bliss...and brother, you have it on tap.
P.S. you can always MOVE.

tcook33
11-08-2005, 09:00 AM
Who told you that. That is wrong it regulates all wages not just union wages.
Union wages set the base for all wages in the working trades.
BS. I'm non-union and when a guy comes to me from the union cause he's outta work and says he's been makin 40 something dollars an hour. He either follows my pay scale and stays busy for as long as he chooses, or he kicks rocks and sits back on the couch. Union wages mean nothing to us non-union contractors. I've had a dozen or so guys come to me from the union and they are still here and love it.

rrrr
11-08-2005, 09:00 AM
Who told you that. That is wrong it regulates all wages not just union wages.
Union wages set the base for all wages in the working trades.
Fish on! :rolleyes:

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 09:00 AM
My husband is IBEW Local 441 and is not a piece of crap that cannot stand on his own two feet. Not every union or every union member is a lazy piece of shit like you seem think. :eat:
I agree.

Havasu_Dreamin
11-08-2005, 09:01 AM
I garinte (sp) that the Unions wage scale effect you more than you know. Lets talk about what you pay for your day to day services. Or maybe you would rather talk about all the teamster hauling you fuel to the stations so you closed minded ass can go fuel your boat!
Ahhhh, the first sign of a weaker position in a debate, resort to name calling.

tcook33
11-08-2005, 09:01 AM
That applies to every politician ever elected.
Exactly my point.... :)

MagicMtnDan
11-08-2005, 09:01 AM
Lessee:
Have more control over teachers - unions don't want that
Keep unions from spending MILLIONS of $ in dues on politics - unions don't want that
While you union guys are whining, the UNION controlled US automakers are dying.
When all you have left is your unions and you're wondering why your jobs went offshore who will you blame then?

tcook33
11-08-2005, 09:02 AM
Thats why they all need to go.
Come on. Think of a better change than that... :rolleyes:

deltarat
11-08-2005, 09:03 AM
Ahhhh, the first sign of a weaker position in a debate, resort to name calling.
No debate here, Im just a proud Union member talking to someone how is clueless as to how the Unions are actully involed in their day to day lives.

Throttle
11-08-2005, 09:03 AM
IAFF 3631
the only yes on my ballot was for "D"! :argue:

tcook33
11-08-2005, 09:04 AM
Daveo -
Actually, performance sets wages.
If you are good at what you do, why would you want to limit your wages by hanging out with a union? The market sets the wage. Risk versus reward. You obviously don't have the nuts to strike it out on your own to see if you are as good as the union makes you think you are.
It's like they say, those that can, become entrepreneurs, those that can't, join a union.
Have a nice day.
Bingo.

KACHINA KEN
11-08-2005, 09:05 AM
I cant beleve all of you. You must be in big business. Just sh@! on the working man.
Nice comment, big biz isn't work?

PalapaHead
11-08-2005, 09:06 AM
unions had their purpose...50 YEARS AGO!!!!! now we have laws on the books that do what the original intent of Unions were for.
I say stand on your own two feet, make your own decisions and let your work ethic determine your fate :jawdrop: yea, yea God Forbid anyone should be responsible for them selves :hammer2:
Can I get a AMEN!!!???? Tell me what union where one can effectively increase their income $17/hr in one friggen year!!!!?????

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 09:06 AM
we need regulation on health care and utilaties. not shutting up the unions and working people. Taking money from education.

Havasu_Dreamin
11-08-2005, 09:07 AM
No debate here, Im just a proud Union member talking to someone how is clueless as to how the Unions are actully involed in their day to day lives.
Again, resort to name calling, it really strengthens your position and lends credibility to your arguement :rolleyes:
I know very well that the truck driver that drives the fuel truck to the gas station is most likely a teamster member. I also know that the checker at the grocery store is a union member and I know that the fireman or police officer I call, if I ever need to, is a union member. However, what those union memebers make in terms of wages has NO DIRECT impact on the salary that my employer chooses to pay me. How good I am at my job determines that.

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 09:07 AM
Ignorance is bliss...and brother, you have it on tap.
P.S. you can always MOVE.
Look in the mirror Bud.

MagicMtnDan
11-08-2005, 09:09 AM
No debate here, Im just a proud Union member talking to someone how is clueless as to how the Unions are actully involed in their day to day lives.
Oh don't worry, I can see how the unions are involved in our lives and our economy.
1. How many millions of union dollars have been spent on TV and radio ads? What will YOU union members get for that money by enabling your unions to keep doing that year after year? What if the unions invested those tens of millions and returned the earnings uh, how about, TO THE UNION MEMBERS WHO PAID THE DUES?
2. Talk to the thousands of employees at Delphi - the company is on the verge of shutting down and they'll all be out of work. Do you know what the average annual income is in Kokomo, IN (where a huge Delphi plant is) and how much higher it is because of the unions? Before you tell me that's why the unions are good (helping members get higher wages) keep in mind that Delphi is about to die.
OK, one more:
3. Tell me how the unions are helping the big three US car makers. Tell me why GM should pay more per car for union healthcare than they do for steel. Why can't they make money on the cars they make in the US?
Bonus question:
4. Why will Toyota, Nissan, and Honda continue to eat GM's, Ford's and Daimler-Chrysler's lunch? (Note that they're all Japanese companies).
Hint: the Japanese have much better control over the unions

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 09:09 AM
Bingo.
not true.

Stoneman
11-08-2005, 09:11 AM
we need regulation on health care and utilaties. not shutting up the unions and working people. Taking money from education.
You are lost! Regulation is somewhat needed for the utilities because of infrastructure. Health care ran by the government would be a disaster!

little rowe boat
11-08-2005, 09:12 AM
Gotta love it, when guys with cushy state jobs are posting from thier computers at work, on the taxpayers dime. Did the union call in extra employees, and pay them overtime to post on Hot Boat?
I don't know what you consider a cushy state job,but believe me I'm at home on a day off,so screw you.
ASK MY FRIEND WHO DIED ON THE JOB ON 11-05-05 IF HE WAS DOING A CUSHY JOB.

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 09:12 AM
Again, resort to name calling, it really strengthens your position and lends credibility to your arguement :rolleyes:
I know very well that the truck driver that drives the fuel truck to the gas station is most likely a teamster member. I also know that the checker at the grocery store is a union member and I know that the fireman or police officer I call, if I ever need to, is a union member. However, what those union memebers make in terms of wages has NO DIRECT impact on the salary that my employer chooses to pay me. How good I am at my job determines that.
It determans a base not a top scale if they pay you more good for you. But if it wasnt for unions we would still be making crap.

deltarat
11-08-2005, 09:14 AM
Again, resort to name calling, it really strengthens your position and lends credibility to your arguement :rolleyes:
I know very well that the truck driver that drives the fuel truck to the gas station is most likely a teamster member. I also know that the checker at the grocery store is a union member and I know that the fireman or police officer I call, if I ever need to, is a union member. However, what those union memebers make in terms of wages has NO DIRECT impact on the salary that my employer chooses to pay me.
It does regulate what you pay for the services that you enjoy daily. Every time you purchase items at your grocery store, or fuel at the pumps of your gas station you are directly compensating the store owner on franchise owner for the wages that he is paying his emploees. There for to say that the Unions dont effect you at all is a false statement and that is all I am trying to say. How you fell about the Unions is your bussiness not mine. I stand strong for what I believe in and you probably do as well. That I can respect even if you are wrong :hammerhea j/k

Stoneman
11-08-2005, 09:14 AM
I don't know what you consider a cushy state job,but believe me I'm at home on a day off,so screw you.
ASK MY FRIEND WHO DIED ON THE JOB ON 11-05-05 IF HE WAS DOING A CUSHY JOB.
What state job is not cushy?
Getting killed on the job doesn't mean it's hard, just means it can be dangerous.

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 09:14 AM
You are lost! Regulation is somewhat needed for the utilities because of infrastructure. Health care ran by the government would be a disaster!
never said gov. regulation just a regulation. And I know where I am.

PalapaHead
11-08-2005, 09:16 AM
It determans a base not a top scale if they pay you more good for you. But if it wasnt for unions we would still be making crap.
Ignorance on tap Tuesday Special: 2.95 a Pint!!!!
:2purples: :2purples: :2purples: :2purples:

SummitKarl
11-08-2005, 09:16 AM
My husband is IBEW Local 441 and is not a piece of crap that cannot stand on his own two feet. Not every union or every union member is a lazy piece of shit like you seem think. :eat:
wasn't implying this. many of my friends are in unions (grocery store)
IMHO I find it hard to let someone else negotiate for me or determine my fate.
or tell me where or when I can or cannot work.
like I said they had their purpose, to protect workers from appualing working conditions 50 or more years ago and that was a good thing.

Stoneman
11-08-2005, 09:16 AM
never said gov. regulation just a regulation. And I know where I am.
Regulation, by definition, must involve the government. Yes, your living in a dream world.

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 09:16 AM
It does regulate what you pay for the services that you enjoy daily. Every time you purchase items at your grocery store, or fuel at the pumps of your gas station you are directly compensating the store owner on franchise owner for the wages that he is paying his emploees. There for to say that the Unions dont effect you at all is a false statement and that is all I am trying to say. How you fell about the Unions is your bussiness not mine. I stand strong for what I believe in and you probably do as well. That I can respect even if you are wrong :hammerhea j/k
I couldnt say it better myself

tcook33
11-08-2005, 09:17 AM
It determans a base not a top scale if they pay you more good for you. But if it wasnt for unions we would still be making crap.
Fine. Point taken. Now refer to this post by SummitKarl:
unions had their purpose...50 YEARS AGO!!!!! now we have laws on the books that do what the original intent of Unions were for.
I say stand on your own two feet, make your own decisions and let your work ethic determine your fate yea, yea God Forbid anyone should be responsible for them selves

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 09:17 AM
Ignorance on tap Tuesday Special: 2.95 a Pint!!!!
:2purples: :2purples: :2purples: :2purples:
You selling it at that price can you aford to loose any of it.

Throttle
11-08-2005, 09:18 AM
Oh don't worry, I can see how the unions are involved in our lives and our economy.
1. How many millions of union dollars have been spent on TV and radio ads? What will YOU union members get for that money by enabling your unions to keep doing that year after year? What if the unions invested those tens of millions and returned the earnings uh, how about, TO THE UNION MEMBERS WHO PAID THE DUES?
u r kidding right? union dollars have not come close to what has been spent by arnold's special election

Havasu_Dreamin
11-08-2005, 09:18 AM
It determans a base not a top scale if they pay you more good for you. But if it wasnt for unions we would still be making crap.
As with most political arguements, you will not sway my opinion and I will not sway yours. If it wasnt for unions cars would not be as expensive as they are since some guy makes $25 per hour to operate a pneumatic wrench.

Seadog
11-08-2005, 09:18 AM
I saw a report from an independent group the other day that ranked California 46th in the nation as far as intelligence scores went. They were right below Louisianna. The only good thing was that they were ranked above Arizona. Those union led teachers must be doing a good job.
My brother moved to California from Oklahoma because the unions have forced the hospitals to import nurses at outrageous wages. He makes three times what he can in any other state and by law does not work the hours he would in most states. Not only are the wages extravagant, but he is always given a top rental apartment or house where ever he goes. His last posting had him living in a house on the grounds of a large winery.
The unions told Oklahoma that passing right-to-work would destroy the economy and make everyone work at pauper wages. We are in the midst of a huge growth period. The main industry that is hurting is the airlines that have a huge presence in Tulsa and are heavily unionized.

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 09:18 AM
wasn't implying this. many of my friends are in unions (grocery store)
IMHO I find it hard to let someone else negotiate for me or determine my fate.
or tell me where or when I can or cannot work.
like I said they had their purpose, to protect workers from appualing working conditions 50 or more years ago and that was a good thing.
If the quiet the unions it will return to the old ways 50 years ago.

little rowe boat
11-08-2005, 09:19 AM
What state job is not cushy?
Getting killed on the job doesn't mean it's hard, just means it can be dangerous.
How about firefighting.

MagicMtnDan
11-08-2005, 09:19 AM
I don't know what you consider a cushy state job,but believe me I'm at home on a day off,so screw you.
ASK MY FRIEND WHO DIED ON THE JOB ON 11-05-05 IF HE WAS DOING A CUSHY JOB.
God bless him and his family. I have nothing but respect for firefighters and police. But that has nothing to do with their unions.
Unions used to be good - years ago. Unions are killing this country and those of you who are in them are going to pay a huge price for staying in them and supporting them. It's no longer the US economy we have to worry about - this is a global issue. The world's economy continues to change at an incredibly fast pace. If you think you need a union to help you compete you will soon be wondering why you're out of work!

Newcastle
11-08-2005, 09:20 AM
What state job is not cushy?
Getting killed on the job doesn't mean it's hard, just means it can be dangerous.
I don't think this thread was intended to debate whether state jobs are cushy. I am a public employee, and I wouldn't consider my job cushy. Of course, like most state employees, I started working in the private sector. I worked with more slugs there than I do now.

Havasu_Dreamin
11-08-2005, 09:21 AM
It does regulate what you pay for the services that you enjoy daily. Every time you purchase items at your grocery store, or fuel at the pumps of your gas station you are directly compensating the store owner on franchise owner for the wages that he is paying his emploees. There for to say that the Unions dont effect you at all is a false statement and that is all I am trying to say. How you fell about the Unions is your bussiness not mine. I stand strong for what I believe in and you probably do as well. That I can respect even if you are wrong :hammerhea j/k
I am perfectly aware that I am indirectly compensating union members when I purchase goods and services. and obviously that has an impact on my daily life as a result. But your missing the point. The original statement, not made by you, was in regards to union wages having an impact on what my employer pays me. That is not true. My employer does not care what a union member earns I get paid for my job performance.

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 09:21 AM
we can go on and on. We all have our own ideas and thoughts. thats why this country is great.

tcook33
11-08-2005, 09:22 AM
How about firefighting.
Firefighting is a tough job no doubt. It is also very dangerous. But I would say that the work schedule is very cushy. Most firefighters have a shitload of $$$ because they can also own another business on the side with all the free time.

MagicMtnDan
11-08-2005, 09:23 AM
we can go on and on. We all have our own ideas and thoughts. thats why this country is great.
That's what you say when you don't have any facts to stand on. Try responding to any one of my questions :coffeycup

Stoneman
11-08-2005, 09:24 AM
How about firefighting.
I can't think of any group of people I respect more than Police and firefighters!
They don't have a cushy job, and they don't get paid enough for what they do.
But go to DMV, phone company, water company, school, Gas company, airport, cal trans, RTA, ect.. and tell me that's a hard job.

little rowe boat
11-08-2005, 09:24 AM
God bless him and his family. I have nothing but respect for firefighters and police. But that has nothing to do with their unions.
Unions used to be good - years ago. Unions are killing this country and those of you who are in them are going to pay a huge price for staying in them and supporting them. It's no longer the US economy we have to worry about - this is a global issue. The world's economy continues to change at an incredibly fast pace. If you think you need a union to help you compete you will soon be wondering why you're out of work!
This election has everything to do with our unions.If he wins this special election,you can bet that there will be another one this next year trying to take away our retirement that many of us have paid into for many years.( a Pete Wilson ) ploy. Go after public safety .

Stoneman
11-08-2005, 09:25 AM
we can go on and on. We all have our own ideas and thoughts. thats why this country is great.
You started this, what starting to change your mind???

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 09:25 AM
That's what you say when you don't have any facts to stand on. Try responding to any one of my questions :coffeycup
I all ready have cant you read.

Stoneman
11-08-2005, 09:26 AM
This election has everything to do with our unions.If he wins this special election,you can bet that there will be another one this next year trying to take away our retirement that many of us have paid into for many years.( a Pete Wilson ) ploy. Go after public safety .
Why should I as a taxpayer, pay for your retirement????

MagicMtnDan
11-08-2005, 09:26 AM
This election has everything to do with our unions.If he wins this special election,you can bet that there will be another one this next year trying to take away our retirement that many of us have paid into for many years.( a Pete Wilson ) ploy. Go after public safety .
Why doesn't your union provide for and manage your retirement? (What the hell good are they if they don't do this for you?!) Why can anyone take it away? No one can take away my retirement (401k). It's time for you union people to join the rest of the world and take care of yourselves!

steve d
11-08-2005, 09:26 AM
My husband is IBEW Local 441 and is not a piece of crap that cannot stand on his own two feet. Not every union or every union member is a lazy piece of shit like you seem think. :eat:
It seems alot of these people equate every union with the Public unions--The difference is these public unions have the means to excavate a bottomless pit-(your tax payer dollars). Some unions Like the IBEW,SHEETMETAL WORKERS, Carpenters, Plumbers are made up of private contractors (business owners who decided to go out on their own)--they bid jobs and try to make a living. They hire people out of the union hall and expect a days work---If they don't get it they fire them on the spot. Try that in the public sector. There is a difference!!....Steve (retired IBEW Local 11--2003)

Jyruiz
11-08-2005, 09:27 AM
This State (CA) is f'd up, all everybody wants to do is throw money at the problems, no one wants to cut, and if they do want to cut spending, they don't wanted to be on there expense. If the props Arnold has proposed fail, then taxex are going to be raised by the next Governor and everybody will be screwed.

Throttle
11-08-2005, 09:27 AM
Dan, has anyone ever told you that you might put too much sugar in your koolaid?

deltarat
11-08-2005, 09:27 AM
The main reason the Airline industry is hurting is because of the extreamly high fuel prices that we all are paying and because of these and a few other reason as well no one can afford to travel. Lets not even get started on where all of this stems from!! I thought this thread was about gettin out and voting for what you believe in...what ever your stand is!

Newcastle
11-08-2005, 09:28 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong. The Union proposition is about 'state' employees, correct? And it's whether they want 'their' earnings to go toward a union political agenda, correct? And they have the power, right now, to elect 'their' $$$ to be withheld from 'their' union spending it for political reasons, correct?
Now here's the ?. Why is it all Californians, including private sector employees, and unemployed mo-fo slackers, can decide the future destination for wages that public employees have already earned?
Not to bash anybody, but this is my question. I ain't gonna name call, and I haven't been a public employee more than 5 years. It's a legitimate question, no? Of course, I may have a couple facts misconstrued. Please gimme your input.
...and I have the day off, since I work weekend graveyards when most lucky people get to party! :frown:

little rowe boat
11-08-2005, 09:28 AM
Firefighting is a tough job no doubt. It is also very dangerous. But I would say that the work schedule is very cushy. Most firefighters have a shitload of $$$ because they can also own another business on the side with all the free time.
Believe me the schedule does not make it cushy. The schedule is so you can go home and get some rest after a long night.
But I do agree if a firefighter has a shit load of money it's because they work 2 jobs.

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 09:28 AM
Why should I as a taxpayer, pay for your retirement????
You dont I pay for ny own retirment. Where did you get that from.

little rowe boat
11-08-2005, 09:29 AM
I can't think of any group of people I respect more than Police and firefighters!
They don't have a cushy job, and they don't get paid enough for what they do.
But go to DMV, phone company, water company, school, Gas company, airport, cal trans, RTA, ect.. and tell me that's a hard job.
So you screw cops and ff's because you don't like the others.

little rowe boat
11-08-2005, 09:30 AM
Why should I as a taxpayer, pay for your retirement????
You are not I am.

Kachina26
11-08-2005, 09:31 AM
As with most political arguements, you will not sway my opinion and I will not sway yours. If it wasnt for unions cars would not be as expensive as they are since some guy makes $25 per hour to operate a pneumatic wrench.
BTW, it's over $50 an hour with bennies.

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 09:31 AM
Why doesn't your union provide for and manage your retirement? (What the hell good are they if they don't do this for you?!) Why can anyone take it away? No one can take away my retirement (401k). It's time for you union people to join the rest of the world and take care of yourselves!
They dont and they cant. And I do.

Newcastle
11-08-2005, 09:32 AM
So you screw cops and ff's because you don't like the others.
exactly. I think cops and firemen should be separated! Instead of just voting yes, why not vote now and force him to be specific on which jobs are exactly too 'cushy'. I think the consensus is ff and coppers shouldn't be subject to the reprocussions of this prop.

deltarat
11-08-2005, 09:33 AM
Why should I as a taxpayer, pay for your retirement????
I pay for my own retirement, thank you very much for NOTHING out of your pocket!!
Howvere I will take a beer out of your icechest anytime :rollside:

Stoneman
11-08-2005, 09:35 AM
So you screw cops and ff's because you don't like the others.
I believe no one would allow the cop and ff's to get screwed.
Your union should be trying to differentiate you from the rest of the state workers.

little rowe boat
11-08-2005, 09:35 AM
Why doesn't your union provide for and manage your retirement? (What the hell good are they if they don't do this for you?!) Why can anyone take it away? No one can take away my retirement (401k). It's time for you union people to join the rest of the world and take care of yourselves!
I do have a deferred comp. plan. which I might say because I am not an investor does no do so well. Because our unions public service unions are not huge unions that have tons of $$$. Our money is pooled with PERS.We pay into it in the same way most people pay into social security but at a higher %.

Stoneman
11-08-2005, 09:35 AM
I pay for my own retirement, thank you very much for NOTHING out of your pocket!!
Howvere I will take a beer out of your icechest anytime :rollside:
Then you don't work for the gov.

Jeanyus
11-08-2005, 09:36 AM
I don't know what you consider a cushy state job,but believe me I'm at home on a day off,so screw you.
ASK MY FRIEND WHO DIED ON THE JOB ON 11-05-05 IF HE WAS DOING A CUSHY JOB.
Sorry to hear about your friend dying.
I have a friend who recently was killed on the job, on his salery he qualified for welfare. Never heard him gripe about the taxpayers paying for his retirement.
If you want to pay people to speak for you thats your right. Why am I paying people to speak for you, and making my vote meaningless. The single voter will never have the political clout that the unions do.
You choose to work for the public, but feel the public should have no say in the matter.
I would rather have the voters running the state rather than your union.

little rowe boat
11-08-2005, 09:38 AM
I believe no one would allow the cop and ff's to get screwed.
Your union should be trying to differentiate you from the rest of the state workers.
The bottom line is that we are still public emplyees who for the most part pay into the same retirement syst.

Stoneman
11-08-2005, 09:39 AM
The bottom line is that we are still public emplyees who for the most part pay into the same retirement syst.
That is an issue for your union.

Deano
11-08-2005, 09:40 AM
You dont I pay for ny own retirment. Where did you get that from.
actually, your employer does. The one that, all you useless union memebers dont understand, has to make money so you in turn can make money.
Bringing down the man that has the balls to go out on his own and try to make some money is cutting your own throat.

Newcastle
11-08-2005, 09:40 AM
I do have a deferred comp. plan. which I might say because I am not an investor does no do so well. Because our unions public service unions are not huge unions that have tons of $$$. Our money is pooled with PERS.We pay into it in the same way most people pay into social security but at a higher %.
Exactly. It sounds like lots of people agree cops and ff need to get paid more. Take that into consideration along with the fact that I pay $846 per month into my deferred comp AND 12% of my income into PERS! Now how much does that leave me....not much...

Newcastle
11-08-2005, 09:41 AM
Howvere I will take a beer out of your icechest anytime :rollside:
me too!!! :D

Stoneman
11-08-2005, 09:42 AM
me too!!! :D
I better get somemore beer!!!! :D

little rowe boat
11-08-2005, 09:43 AM
Sorry to hear about your friend dying.
I have a friend who recently was killed on the job, on his salery he qualified for welfare. Never heard him gripe about the taxpayers paying for his retirement.
If you want to pay people to speak for you thats your right. Why am I paying people to speak for you, and making my vote meaningless. The single voter will never have the political clout that the unions do.
You choose to work for the public, but feel the public should have no say in the matter.
I would rather have the voters running the state rather than your union.
The taxpayers are NOT paying my retirement I am.All of the money I give to my union is MY money I earned it
You are right I feel that the public should not have a say on how I choose to spend MY money that I earned.
Believe me the voters and private corporations are running the state.Big corporations outspend the unions 24 to 1.

Newcastle
11-08-2005, 09:46 AM
You are right I feel that the public should not have a say on how I choose to spend MY money that I earned.
That was my point...

djunkie
11-08-2005, 09:46 AM
DaveO, I hate to tell you but you are an extreme minority on this forum. I have learned to stay out of the political debates here cause it will get you no where.
Oh and by the way......... I'm ILWU Local 13.

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 09:46 AM
The taxpayers are NOT paying my retirement I am.All of the money I give to my union is MY money I earned it
You are right I feel that the public should not have a say on how I choose to spend MY money that I earned.
Believe me the voters and private corporations are running the state.Big corporations outspend the unions 24 to 1.
That wright

Stoneman
11-08-2005, 09:47 AM
The taxpayers are NOT paying my retirement I am.All of the money I give to my union is MY money I earned it
You are right I feel that the public should not have a say on how I choose to spend MY money that I earned.
Believe me the voters and private corporations are running the state.Big corporations outspend the unions 24 to 1.
If you get PERS, your retirement pay is backed by the state. AKA taxpayer, AKA me.

Newcastle
11-08-2005, 09:47 AM
DaveO, I hate to tell you but you are an extreme minority on this forum. I have learned to stay out of the political debates here cause it will get you no where.
Oh and by the way......... I'm ILWU Local 13.
Prolly good advice. I should keep quiet...

little rowe boat
11-08-2005, 09:47 AM
People are going to do what they believe is right. Which is fine with me. There is absolutely nothing I can say here to change anyones mind or opinion.So just do what is right for you and your families and eventually,hopefully everything comes out ok in the end.

Newcastle
11-08-2005, 09:47 AM
If you get PERS, your retirement pay is backed by the state. AKA taxpayer, AKA me.
Explain 'backed by' please.

Jeanyus
11-08-2005, 09:49 AM
People are going to do what they believe is right. Which is fine with me. There is absolutely nothing I can say here to change anyones mind or opinion.So just do what is right for you and your families and eventually,hopefully everything comes out ok in the end.
Agreed.

Stoneman
11-08-2005, 09:50 AM
Explain 'backed by' please.
when it cost more to pay retirement then the PERS system brings in. State takes tax revenues and gives them to the PERS system to offset losses.

little rowe boat
11-08-2005, 09:50 AM
If you get PERS, your retirement pay is backed by the state. AKA taxpayer, AKA me.
I'm not retired,but hope to be someday and the pay is backed by others paying into the system as I am and the wise investing by the pers board. If the retirement syt. is dismantled then yes my retirement will then be backed by you and the rest of the state taxpayers til the day I die.

Stoneman
11-08-2005, 09:52 AM
I'm not retired,but hope to be someday and the pay is backed by others paying into the system as I am and the wise investing by the pers board. If the retirement syt. is dismantled then yes my retirement will then be backed by you and the rest of the state taxpayers til the day I die.
THe wise investing in the dot coms, lost quite a bit and tax dollars were used to offset that. we have already payed for your retirement.

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 09:52 AM
DaveO, I hate to tell you but you are an extreme minority on this forum. I have learned to stay out of the political debates here cause it will get you no where.
Oh and by the way......... I'm ILWU Local 13.
I didnot want to start some sh@! just wanted everyone to vote.

NOCTURNAL
11-08-2005, 09:53 AM
I was at a conference in Los Angeles last week where Al Fernandez of CalPERS was speaking.
CalPERS has to return 7.25% on their money each year just to meet obligations. How many safe risk averse investments are out there that are returning over 7.25% year over year? That is why CalPERS is putting more and more money into risky opportunity funds (Chinese real estate) to get the returns they need. What happens when CalPERS runs out of high risk opportunities, or takes a hit on some of these investments? They will be forced to move back toward risk averse investments with low returns and will then run into an operating short fall.
Daveo and other union guys:
Who will have to make up for that shortfall?? Should we tell the retired employees that their checks will be a little short, or will they look to the state to make up the difference? That is when we, the taxpayers, will be paying for your retirement.

Stoneman
11-08-2005, 09:54 AM
I didnot want to start some sh@! just wanted everyone to vote.
Should of limited your thread to VOTE not VOTE For!!!!! :hammerhea

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 09:54 AM
THe wise investing in the dot coms, lost quite a bit and tax dollars were used to offset that. we have already payed for your retirement.
If you know so much about my retierment then what do I pay per mo. and what do I get when I retire?

Jeanyus
11-08-2005, 09:55 AM
I was at a conference in Los Angeles last week where Al Fernandez of CalPERS was speaking.
CalPERS has to return 7.25% on their money each year just to meet obligations. How many safe risk averse investments are out there that are returning over 7.25% year over year? That is why CalPERS is putting more and more money into risky opportunity funds (Chinese real estate) to get the returns they need. What happens when CalPERS runs out of high risk opportunities, or takes a hit on some of these investments? They will be forced to move back toward risk averse investments with low returns and will then run into an operating short fall.
Daveo and other union guys:
Who will have to make up for that shortfall?? Should we tell the retired employees that their checks will be a little short, or will they look to the state to make up the difference? That is when we, the taxpayers, will be paying for your retirement.
The soluton is simple, the state just borrows more money.

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 09:55 AM
Should of limited your thread to VOTE not VOTE For!!!!! :hammerhea
I did. just added my 2 cents about your buddy arnold.

PalapaHead
11-08-2005, 09:56 AM
:smile:

Stoneman
11-08-2005, 09:56 AM
If you know so much about my retierment then what do I pay per mo. and what do I get when I retire?
My wife is in the PERS system and has been for over ten year. Her retirement will be 2.5% per year. Yours should be 3% per year. What you pay in is based on your current pay. I don't know nor do I care what you make.

Mrs. Bordsmnj
11-08-2005, 09:57 AM
Daveo and other union guys:
Who will have to make up for that shortfall?? Should we tell the retired employees that their checks will be a little short, or will they look to the state to make up the difference? That is when we, the taxpayers, will be paying for your retirement.
Maybe I don't know all of the ins and outs of the ways of the union but how is it that you think taxpayers pay my husbands retirement? He is an electrician and does not work for the state, government, utility company, etc. He works for a private contractor. What does that have to do with taxpayers?

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 09:57 AM
I was at a conference in Los Angeles last week where Al Fernandez of CalPERS was speaking.
CalPERS has to return 7.25% on their money each year just to meet obligations. How many safe risk averse investments are out there that are returning over 7.25% year over year? That is why CalPERS is putting more and more money into risky opportunity funds (Chinese real estate) to get the returns they need. What happens when CalPERS runs out of high risk opportunities, or takes a hit on some of these investments? They will be forced to move back toward risk averse investments with low returns and will then run into an operating short fall.
Daveo and other union guys:
Who will have to make up for that shortfall?? Should we tell the retired employees that their checks will be a little short, or will they look to the state to make up the difference? That is when we, the taxpayers, will be paying for your retirement.
Not true it is internal with the people that pay into the retirement funds.

little rowe boat
11-08-2005, 09:58 AM
THe wise investing in the dot coms, lost quite a bit and tax dollars were used to offset that. we have already payed for your retirement.
Nope but you will be in about 13 1/2 yrs. :idea:

Stoneman
11-08-2005, 09:58 AM
Maybe I don't know all of the ins and outs of the ways of the union but how is it that you think taxpayers pay my husbands retirement? He is an electrician and does not work for the state, government, utility company, etc. He works for a private contractor. What does that have to do with taxpayers?
Nothing.

Stoneman
11-08-2005, 09:59 AM
Not true it is internal with the people that pay into the retirement funds.
Your back in your dream world again. :sleeping:

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 09:59 AM
My wife is in the PERS system and has been for over ten year. Her retirement will be 2.5% per year. Yours should be 3% per year. What you pay in is based on your current pay. I don't know nor do I care what you make.
Good But your not close. We have had a return of 5% pluss for many years and it will only go up.

Jeanyus
11-08-2005, 10:00 AM
Maybe I don't know all of the ins and outs of the ways of the union but how is it that you think taxpayers pay my husbands retirement? He is an electrician and does not work for the state, government, utility company, etc. He works for a private contractor. What does that have to do with taxpayers?
Prop 75 and 76 do not affect private unions, only state employee unions.

Stoneman
11-08-2005, 10:03 AM
Good But your not close. We have had a return of 5% pluss for many years and it will only go up.
are we talking 457 or PERS?????

Mrs. Bordsmnj
11-08-2005, 10:03 AM
Prop 75 and 76 do not affect private unions, only state employee unions.
Ok, my bad. I just always get all fired up when people start bashing union workers.
Carry on now. :rollside:

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 10:07 AM
are we talking 457 or PERS?????
local 12 glasers and painters and floor covering.

Jeanyus
11-08-2005, 10:08 AM
This is supposed to be a non patisan explanation of the props up for vote
http://www.citizenvoice.org/election.shtml

Stoneman
11-08-2005, 10:11 AM
local 12 glasers and painters and floor covering.
So you don't work for the state????
Currently government employee unions can use members’ union dues for political contributions, regardless of whether the union member supports the decision. Proposition 75 would require public employee unions to get written approval from each union member, every year, before that member’s dues could be used for political purposes. Prop 75 would also require public employee unions to maintain records of their individual members’ contributions and requires unions to provide those records to the Fair Political Practices Commission.
what are you whinning about???

HM
11-08-2005, 10:37 AM
YES on 73, 74, 75, 76, 77
NO on 78, 79, 80
Doing my part to shit on the "workin' man" :notam:

Havasu_Dreamin
11-08-2005, 11:01 AM
Now here's the ?. Why is it all Californians, including private sector employees, and unemployed mo-fo slackers, can decide the future destination for wages that public employees have already earned?
For the exact same reason that renters get to vote for property tax increases. Your question is a valid one, one I proposed a few months ago when this all came up. But since it goes before the entire electorate everyone gets to vote even though it will only impact a portion of said electorate.

Havasu_Dreamin
11-08-2005, 11:03 AM
BTW, it's over $50 an hour with bennies.
These are the guys on the assembly line, right? That is what I was referencing, not the service mechanics.

Havasu_Dreamin
11-08-2005, 11:04 AM
I think the consensus is ff and coppers shouldn't be subject to the reprocussions of this prop.
My own personal opinion is that FF and LEO unions are not like traditional unions.

Kachina26
11-08-2005, 11:05 AM
These are the guys on the assembly line, right? That is what I was referencing, not the service mechanics.Yes, them. The service guys make anywhere from 17-26 or more, depending on what we can negotiate for ourselves. I hear the union mechanics up in northern cal make around 35-40, but look at the cost of living up there.

Havasu_Dreamin
11-08-2005, 11:06 AM
We pay into it in the same way most people pay into social security but at a higher %.
What percentage do you pay into it?

MagicMtnDan
11-08-2005, 11:06 AM
Dan, has anyone ever told you that you might put too much sugar in your koolaid?
No but I saved 10% on my car insurance :sleeping:

bordsmnj
11-08-2005, 11:09 AM
It seems alot of these people equate every union with the Public unions--The difference is these public unions have the means to excavate a bottomless pit-(your tax payer dollars). Some unions Like the IBEW,SHEETMETAL WORKERS, Carpenters, Plumbers are made up of private contractors (business owners who decided to go out on their own)--they bid jobs and try to make a living. They hire people out of the union hall and expect a days work---If they don't get it they fire them on the spot. Try that in the public sector. There is a difference!!....Steve (retired IBEW Local 11--2003)
exactly.

djunkie
11-08-2005, 11:27 AM
I didnot want to start some sh@! just wanted everyone to vote.
Ya I know that. Its just too bad you have to get bashed for your opinion.

bordsmnj
11-08-2005, 11:30 AM
Just wait til you and the others get your wish. In a couple years you'll be wishing for the good old days of 2005 and regretting not voting for the propositions.
The next governor will be far more liberal than Arnold and while that may make the liberals happy it's going to continue to drive more and more people and companies out of California.
This state is on the edge of financial instability and the legislature has been driving it there as quickly as possible.
When the unions get their way, who will pay for it? :mad:
i agree with your point of view just not entirely. prop 75 kinda crosses the line in all fairness. i see the other props as being neccesary.i'm a union electrician. i bust my ass for a living just as i did long before i joined the union. only now i don't have to put up with bull shit and lies that are typicall of contractors and am fully compensated for my knowledge and time.the unions didn't ruin this state. i'm pretty sure we'd all be better off if we went after the trial lawyers and changed policy on illegal aliens.

HM
11-08-2005, 11:38 AM
Ya I know that. Its just too bad you have to get bashed for your opinion.
that is the risk you take with free speech. People are free to air their opinion as well, even if it is an attack on your opinion. People think they should be able to spout what ever they want, and think they have a right to be heard, and then get all huffy when people disagree - get over it kids.
He threw is his $0.02 on Arnie, and got what he paid for. Perhaps if he spent more money than $0.02, it wouldn't be so easy to bash (successfully).
Arnie has a lot of supporters here. Take some shots at him, and a barage of replys are on the way.

djunkie
11-08-2005, 11:40 AM
that is the risk you take with free speech. People are free to air their opinion as well, even if it is an attack on your opinion. People think they should be able to spout what ever they want, and think they have a right to be heard, and then get all huffy when people disagree - get over it kids.
He threw is his $0.02 on Arnie, and got what he paid for. Perhaps if he spent more money than $0.02, it wouldn't be so easy to bash (successfully).
Arnie has a lot of supporters here. Take some shots at him, and a barage of replys are on the way.
I was simply stating to the guy that he was fighting a losing battle over here. Now go back to your hole..... :D :D

HM
11-08-2005, 11:48 AM
I was simply stating to the guy that he was fighting a losing battle over here. Now go back to your hole..... :D :D
Alright already!!! :D :D
Besides, I voted last week. :clover:

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 11:48 AM
LOLNo but I saved 10% on my car insurance :sleeping:

MagicMtnDan
11-08-2005, 01:43 PM
Sorry to hear about your friend dying.
I have a friend who recently was killed on the job, on his salery he qualified for welfare. Never heard him gripe about the taxpayers paying for his retirement.
If you want to pay people to speak for you thats your right. Why am I paying people to speak for you, and making my vote meaningless. The single voter will never have the political clout that the unions do.
You choose to work for the public, but feel the public should have no say in the matter.
I would rather have the voters running the state rather than your union.
Thanks Jeanyus, you've said it quite well. :)
I am not anti-union, I just don't think that they provide enough benefits to society or their membership anymore.
Gray Davis increased the size of California's government dramatically and we've been paying a huge price for that and the sweetheart deals he signed with the unions for their support.
I'd be happy if no one could spend any money on political ads. The system would work way better, TV and radio would be more enjoyable and that money could hopefully be spent on other things. Now those that donate the largest amounts (like the unions) to the politicians get the rewards for their donations. That's not how the system is supposed to work.

Kilrtoy
11-08-2005, 01:50 PM
Arnie has a lot of supporters here. Take some shots at him, and a barage of replys are on the way.
ARNIE SUCKS....... :messedup: :messedup: :messedup: :messedup:

djunkie
11-08-2005, 01:50 PM
ARNIE SUCKS....... :messedup: :messedup: :messedup: :messedup:
Oh shit!!!! Now you've done it. :rollside:

Kilrtoy
11-08-2005, 02:04 PM
Oh shit!!!! Now you've done it. :rollside:
No im off to vote in a little while
YES ON NOTHING

Dave C
11-08-2005, 02:06 PM
finally! something we can agree on! :D
i'm pretty sure we'd all be better off if we went after the trial lawyers and changed policy on illegal aliens.

BajaMike
11-08-2005, 02:10 PM
I cant beleve all of you. You must be in big business. Just sh@! on the working man.
If you think your union is looking out for you, ask to take a look at thier financial statements and salaries and benefits of the union bosses....... :idea:
:sqeyes: :lightsabe :sqeyes: :lightsabe :sqeyes: :lightsabe

djunkie
11-08-2005, 02:11 PM
No im off to vote in a little while
YES ON NOTHING
:crossx: :crossx:

Kilrtoy
11-08-2005, 02:15 PM
If you think your union is looking out for you, ask to take a look at thier financial statements and salaries and benefits of the union bosses....... :idea:
:sqeyes: :lightsabe :sqeyes: :lightsabe :sqeyes: :lightsabe
I DO and I make more than them,
Next question :yuk:

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 03:34 PM
If you think your union is looking out for you, ask to take a look at thier financial statements and salaries and benefits of the union bosses....... :idea:
:sqeyes: :lightsabe :sqeyes: :lightsabe :sqeyes: :lightsabe
I see them every month. I am on the board that controls that kind of thing. :D

DAVEO
11-08-2005, 03:34 PM
I DO and I make more than them,
Next question :yuk:
good call Im with you.

sam pioske
11-08-2005, 05:27 PM
Was mantioned as giong bankrupt from gas prices! Bull shit it was the biggest best run airline. The unions pushed so far with demands and the co. said, you buy us and you run United Airlines, and now we are at this point!!! Good job union people.

CA Stu
11-08-2005, 05:47 PM
GO VOTE
Shut down the puppet in office. We must stop him before he ruines california.
"ruins"
Illiterates shouldn't be allowed to vote.
Thanks
CA Stu

Rexone
11-08-2005, 05:49 PM
Doesn't this belong in the PR forum? :confused:

CA Stu
11-08-2005, 05:50 PM
I garinte (sp) that the Unions wage scale effect you more than you know. Lets talk about what you pay for your day to day services. Or maybe you would rather talk about all the teamster hauling you fuel to the stations so you closed minded ass can go fuel your boat!
"Guarantee" "your" "let's"
See previous post.
Thanks
CA Stu

CA Stu
11-08-2005, 05:51 PM
we need regulation on health care and utilaties. not shutting up the unions and working people. Taking money from education.
"utilities"
Jeez, I don't have enough time in the day for this guy.
Good thing I already voted.
Thanks
CA Stu

CA Stu
11-08-2005, 05:54 PM
I saw a report from an independent group the other day that ranked California 46th in the nation as far as intelligence scores went. They were right below Louisianna. .
"Louisiana" :cool:

CA Stu
11-08-2005, 05:57 PM
The main reason the Airline industry is hurting is because of the extreamly high fuel prices that we all are paying and because of these and a few other reason as well no one can afford to travel. Lets not even get started on where all of this stems from!! I thought this thread was about gettin out and voting for what you believe in...what ever your stand is!
"Extremely"
Man, I'm going to post a link here, feel free to use it.
http://www.dictionary.com
You guys are driving me insane.
Thanks
CA Stu
PS Pick up a book once in a while, too!

CA Stu
11-08-2005, 06:03 PM
i'm pretty sure we'd all be better off if we went after the trial lawyers and changed policy on illegal aliens.
Personal injury lawyers and illegals, I agree.
Thanks
CA Stu

Kachina26
11-08-2005, 06:28 PM
"Guarantee"
See previous post.
Thanks
CA Stu
So that's the word he was after? I gave up trying to figure it out.

CA Stu
11-08-2005, 06:40 PM
So that's the word he was after? I gave up trying to figure it out.
Goes to show you those union guys are a bunch of illiterate drunks!
Thanks
CA Stu
PS Kidding!

steve d
11-08-2005, 06:45 PM
"Extremely"
Man, I'm going to post a link here, feel free to use it.
http://www.dictionary.com
You guys are driving me insane.
Thanks
CA Stu
PS Pick up a book once in a while, too!
If you think you're going to SPELL CHECK this thread or any other------YOU BETTER PITCH A TENT..........Steve

Wmc
11-08-2005, 07:04 PM
YES ON 74-77 :jawdrop: :jawdrop:

Jeanyus
11-08-2005, 07:49 PM
"Extremely"
Man, I'm going to post a link here, feel free to use it.
http://www.dictionary.com
You guys are driving me insane.
Thanks
CA Stu
PS Pick up a book once in a while, too!
Publick skools, get over it.

Kachina26
11-08-2005, 08:26 PM
Publick skools, get over it.
They would be better if Ahrnold hadn't tooken 2 billion dolers last yere and didn'ted paid it backed liked he sayded he wood :D

mororless
11-08-2005, 09:16 PM
"They would be better if Ahrnold hadn't tooken 2 billion dolers last yere and didn'ted paid it backed liked he sayded he wood"
Danm just to funny Kachina :D :D :D

SoCalOffshore
11-08-2005, 09:59 PM
GO VOTE
Shut down the puppet in office. We must stop him before he ruines california.
Voted for sure, but for the prop's.

SoCalOffshore
11-08-2005, 10:01 PM
"They would be better if Ahrnold hadn't tooken 2 billion dolers last yere and didn'ted paid it backed liked he sayded he wood"
Danm just to funny Kachina :D :D :D
LOL. the funny thing is he actually increased funding by $3 billion.

bigq
11-08-2005, 10:46 PM
They would be better if Ahrnold hadn't tooken 2 billion dolers last yere and didn'ted paid it backed liked he sayded he wood :D
Thats too funny, I have tears in my eyes. :rollside:

bigq
11-08-2005, 10:53 PM
u r kidding right? union dollars have not come close to what has been spent by arnold's special election
The teachers union alone spent almost as much as the yes side, what numbers are you looking at? The unions have spent all most twice as much the special election. thats OK though, but if "big business" would do that all hell would break loose.
At least its for the kids :confused:

bigq
11-08-2005, 10:56 PM
Doesn't look like it will matter, most are loosing anyway. Just raise the taxes and get it over with. :cry:

mororless
11-08-2005, 11:07 PM
Now lets see what happens in the next couple years...when the state goes belly up and all the loyal union members start crying that Arnold did it to them by not fixing the govt.

Kilrtoy
11-08-2005, 11:20 PM
LOL. the funny thing is he actually increased funding by $3 billion.
To bad it was supposed to be by 5, but hey look at me I increased it by 3.....
Great way of thinking....

Kilrtoy
11-08-2005, 11:21 PM
Now lets see what happens in the next couple years...when the state goes belly up and all the loyal union members start crying that Arnold did it to them by not fixing the govt.
YEP THE UNIONS DID IT...
Not all the illegal aliens........
place the blame where it belongs...
Stop blaming workers....

WetWillie
11-08-2005, 11:39 PM
But I don’t care for Unions at all. Her is why. I have had jobs in the Las Vegas and Chicago areas. Both times the building owner got pressure and threats if he didnt use Union labor. I do all of this customers work have for years. Well sure as shit I had to use the union laborers. Most of them not qualified to install the camera and network equipment that we had to install. When it came time to programming the head end of the CCTV equipment they said NOPE we cant touch it. Total BS! I was really pissed. We had to literally train these guys on my dime. Plus they charged $50 an hour. Worked exactly there 8 hrs and took there breaks. Always worked at a normal pace!
How does our country that has SOOOOO many freedoms allow unions to operate and extort work like this???
I believe that people in the unions love them as they feel protected and get paid higher wages.
But why do they have halls to go sit in??? If you take the time you work at $50hr and the time you sit in the hall waiting for a call to work. And if you work only 50% of your hours a year its like making $25 with out a years worth of work.
Maybe unions are not for hustlers and performers????
I think as a nation we would be better off if we were all paid based on what we brought to the work table! Stop being parinoid and wok for it!
Just my opinions..

Kilrtoy
11-08-2005, 11:49 PM
But I don’t care for Unions at all. Her is why. I have had jobs in the Las Vegas and Chicago areas. Both times the building owner got pressure and threats if he didnt use Union labor. I do all of this customers work have for years. Well sure as shit I had to use the union laborers. Most of them not qualified to install the camera and network equipment that we had to install. When it came time to programming the head end of the CCTV equipment they said NOPE we cant touch it. Total BS! I was really pissed. We had to literally train these guys on my dime. Plus they charged $50 an hour. Worked exactly there 8 hrs and took there breaks. Always worked at a normal pace!
How does our country that has SOOOOO many freedoms allow unions to operate and extort work like this???
I believe that people in the unions love them as they feel protected and get paid higher wages.
But why do they have halls to go sit in??? If you take the time you work at $50hr and the time you sit in the hall waiting for a call to work. And if you work only 50% of your hours a year its like making $25 with out a years worth of work.
Maybe unions are not for hustlers and performers????
I think as a nation we would be better off if we were all paid based on what we brought to the work table! Stop being parinoid and wok for it!
Just my opinions..
Can you please explain what this has to do with teachers Fireman and P.O.

Havasu_Dreamin
11-09-2005, 07:59 AM
Get ready for higher taxes now.

WetWillie
11-09-2005, 04:02 PM
Can you please explain what this has to do with teachers Fireman and P.O.
I didn’t realize this thread was all about Policeman Fireman and Teachers Only. Why do all of the above need a union anyway?
There was allot of mention in this thread about Unions and IBEW's brothers and other unions not associated to public workers!!!
But to summarize it again. I don’t care for unions and don’t think we need them!
Work for what you deserve and choose your own destiny you don’t need Guido watching
out for you. You have to pay for it anyways! :p

Kilrtoy
11-09-2005, 04:09 PM
I didn’t realize this thread was all about Policeman Fireman and Teachers Only. Why do all of the above need a union anyway?
There was allot of mention in this thread about Unions and IBEW's brothers and other unions not associated to public workers!!!
But to summarize it again. I don’t care for unions and don’t think we need them!
Work for what you deserve and choose your own destiny you don’t need Guido watching
out for you. You have to pay for it anyways! :p
IT WAS ALL ABOUT POLICE, FIREMAN AND TEACHERS...
It had nothing to do with long shoreman, IWLu or any other union

djunkie
11-09-2005, 04:10 PM
IT WAS ALL ABOUT POLICE, FIREMAN AND TEACHERS...
It had nothing to do with long shoreman, IWLu or any other union
Hey keep me out of this. :devil:

Kilrtoy
11-09-2005, 04:14 PM
Hey keep me out of this. :devil:
I spend even tuesday night down in your hood.......

djunkie
11-09-2005, 04:14 PM
I spend even tuesday night down in your hood.......
Were you skeered?

Kilrtoy
11-09-2005, 04:17 PM
Were you skeered?
Actually yes, there was a bunch of italians and irishmen, drunk and high on meth driving heavy equipment around the docks making 35 an hour on stand bye time last night....
I think they even went thru the whole rotation last night A thru Z ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

mickeyfinn
11-09-2005, 04:32 PM
Shut down the puppet in office. We must stop him before he ruines california.
arnold liberal yah right he is a puppet doing anything he is told. the unions are what set the standerd for your wages anywhere.
I am 3 weeks
EAT ME
I garinte (sp) that the Unions wage scale effect you more than you know. Lets talk about what you pay for your day to day services. Or maybe you would rather talk about all the teamster hauling you fuel to the stations so you closed minded ass can go fuel your boat!
No debate here, Im just a proud Union member talking to someone how is clueless as to how the Unions are actully involed in their day to day lives.
we need regulation on health care and utilaties. not shutting up the unions and working people. Taking money from education.
It determans a base not a top scale if they pay you more good for you. But if it wasnt for unions we would still be making crap
It does regulate what you pay for the services that you enjoy daily. Every time you purchase items at your grocery store, or fuel at the pumps of your gas station you are directly compensating the store owner on franchise owner for the wages that he is paying his emploees. There for to say that the Unions dont effect you at all is a false statement and that is all I am trying to say. How you fell about the Unions is your bussiness not mine. I stand strong for what I believe in and you probably do as well. That I can respect even if you are wrong j/k
You selling it at that price can you aford to loose any of it
If the quiet the unions it will return to the old ways 50 years ago
I all ready have cant you read.
You dont I pay for ny own retirment. Where did you get that from.
That wright
These are cut and paste from the previous replies. Didn't try to spell check the whole thing, just a quick read. Come on people, I know this isn't an english exam, but you should at least try and get your thoughts across in a manner that someone else could understand. Guess we should lay off on the union guys. I guess the people who never bothered to become educated in proper spelling, punctuation, grammar or any other communication skills need some help communicating to the company why they should make more than those who took the time to become educated. It would be totally unfair and descriminatory to allow some people to succeed and make money just because their education made it possible for them to communicate clearly, correctly finish sentences and write resumes that people could actually understand. Glad I don't live out there. Sounds like prices are rising through the roof and jobs are leaving. If California goes back to the days of Grey Davis I give it 10 years or less to start becoming like Florida. It will be a nice place to live as long as you don't need to earn a big income. Retirement homes and tourism will be the only thing left once big business moves on to a more business friendly location. Unfortunately that may very well be out of the country.

djunkie
11-09-2005, 05:32 PM
Actually yes, there was a bunch of italians and irishmen, drunk and high on meth driving heavy equipment around the docks making 35 an hour on stand bye time last night....
I think they even went thru the whole rotation last night A thru Z ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
35 an hour? Try again. :D

Kilrtoy
11-09-2005, 05:35 PM
35 an hour? Try again. :D
Sorry its been awhile...
That is what is was 4 years ago...

djunkie
11-09-2005, 05:38 PM
Shut down the puppet in office. We must stop him before he ruines california.
arnold liberal yah right he is a puppet doing anything he is told. the unions are what set the standerd for your wages anywhere.
I am 3 weeks
EAT ME
I garinte (sp) that the Unions wage scale effect you more than you know. Lets talk about what you pay for your day to day services. Or maybe you would rather talk about all the teamster hauling you fuel to the stations so you closed minded ass can go fuel your boat!
No debate here, Im just a proud Union member talking to someone how is clueless as to how the Unions are actully involed in their day to day lives.
we need regulation on health care and utilaties. not shutting up the unions and working people. Taking money from education.
It determans a base not a top scale if they pay you more good for you. But if it wasnt for unions we would still be making crap
It does regulate what you pay for the services that you enjoy daily. Every time you purchase items at your grocery store, or fuel at the pumps of your gas station you are directly compensating the store owner on franchise owner for the wages that he is paying his emploees. There for to say that the Unions dont effect you at all is a false statement and that is all I am trying to say. How you fell about the Unions is your bussiness not mine. I stand strong for what I believe in and you probably do as well. That I can respect even if you are wrong j/k
You selling it at that price can you aford to loose any of it
If the quiet the unions it will return to the old ways 50 years ago
I all ready have cant you read.
You dont I pay for ny own retirment. Where did you get that from.
That wright
These are cut and paste from the previous replies. Didn't try to spell check the whole thing, just a quick read. Come on people, I know this isn't an english exam, but you should at least try and get your thoughts across in a manner that someone else could understand. Guess we should lay off on the union guys. I guess the people who never bothered to become educated in proper spelling, punctuation, grammar or any other communication skills need some help communicating to the company why they should make more than those who took the time to become educated. It would be totally unfair and descriminatory to allow some people to succeed and make money just because their education made it possible for them to communicate clearly, correctly finish sentences and write resumes that people could actually understand. Glad I don't live out there. Sounds like prices are rising through the roof and jobs are leaving. If California goes back to the days of Grey Davis I give it 10 years or less to start becoming like Florida. It will be a nice place to live as long as you don't need to earn a big income. Retirement homes and tourism will be the only thing left once big business moves on to a more business friendly location. Unfortunately that may very well be out of the country.
Hey not all of us union people are uneducated. I actually did go to college. I have a degree. I chose to get this union job because it would have taken me 15 years to be making what I am now. And I wouldn't even have the pension or benefits that I do. Nevermind. Its like talking to a wall when it comes to this here.

djunkie
11-09-2005, 05:40 PM
Sorry its been awhile...
That is what is was 4 years ago...
Actually it depends on what job your doing. Hey if those moron ship planners back east would organize this shit right we wouldn't have to stand around and wait for the superintendants to figure out what is going on.

Kilrtoy
11-09-2005, 05:42 PM
Actually it depends on what job your doing. Hey if those moron ship planners back east would organize this shit right we wouldn't have to stand around and wait for the superintendants to figure out what is going on.
I forget what you call them, but my buddy drives the containers from the ship to the holding point and gets $35 and he also collects time cards at the hall for $35.... I ask him why he doesnt go full time and well I wont post his response...

NorCal Gameshow
11-09-2005, 05:44 PM
should we regulate union healthcare or just the non-union healthcare
it's funny how we want the other guy regulated but not us...

djunkie
11-09-2005, 05:45 PM
I forget what you call them, but my buddy drives the containers from the ship to the holding point and gets $35 and he also collects time cards at the hall for $35.... I ask him why he doesnt go full time and well I wont post his response...
Not sure what you are talking about.

MagicMtnDan
11-09-2005, 05:47 PM
So your unions spent ONE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS to fight the propositions.
What could you have done with that money? If it was invested, how much of it could come back to you dues payers each year? If it was simply given out to you dues payers, how much would you have received?
I guess it's all moot now. Your unions control the state and when there's nothing left, no one to pay your benefits, who will you go after then?
Just like what happened with the airlines and automakers, you're going to get an ultimatum from them one day. You'll either have to figure out a way to make it work (be profitable) with the costs your unions bring to the table or you'll have to start over with a blank sheet of paper and then your unions will make concessions all over the place to keep your jobs.
Either way you're gonna end up paying for this vote. You should celebrate now because you've only delayed the inevitable.
PS: the next proposition on the ballot should require union members to learn how to spell :D yeah, that oughta pass :supp:

djunkie
11-09-2005, 05:53 PM
So your unions spent ONE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS to fight the propositions.
What could you have done with that money? If it was invested, how much of it could come back to you dues payers each year? If it was simply given out to you dues payers, how much would you have received?
I guess it's all moot now. Your unions control the state and when there's nothing left, no one to pay your benefits, who will you go after then?
Just like what happened with the airlines and automakers, you're going to get an ultimatum from them one day. You'll either have to figure out a way to make it work (be profitable) with the costs your unions bring to the table or you'll have to start over with a blank sheet of paper and then your unions will make concessions all over the place to keep your jobs.
Either way you're gonna end up paying for this vote. You should celebrate now because you've only delayed the inevitable.
PS: the next proposition on the ballot should require union members to learn how to spell :D yeah, that oughta pass :supp:
Jus cus I cant spell don't make me no dummy. :D

Kilrtoy
11-09-2005, 05:56 PM
Soyour unions spent ONE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS to fight the propositions.
What could you have done with that money? If it was invested, how much of it could come back to you dues payers each year? If it was simply given out to you dues payers, how much would you have received?
I guess it's all moot now. Your unions control the state and when there's nothing left, no one to pay your benefits, who will you go after then?
Just like what happened with the airlines and automakers, you're going to get an ultimatum from them one day. You'll either have to figure out a way to make it work (be profitable) with the costs your unions bring to the table or you'll have to start over with a blank sheet of paper and then your unions will make concessions all over the place to keep your jobs.
Either way you're gonna end up paying for this vote. You should celebrate now because you've only delayed the inevitable.
PS: the next proposition on the ballot should require union members to learn how to spell :D yeah, that oughta pass :supp:
When making fun of someone, make sure your shit is tight....
You just broke all the windows in your house....

YeLLowBoaT
11-09-2005, 06:04 PM
I just saw the #s.... they were all very close... kind makes you wonder how much effect those misleading tv adds were. I have said for years that they need to stop the tv and radio adds... If all the money that was spent on thos adds were put in the general fund we would be alot better off. what we need is a major audit of all state funded programs and agentices, get rid fo the ppl that should not be there. Ether they can do thier job or they are gone no gray area, just like what every other corperation would do.... who am I kidding that won't happend....every thing is being blamed on arnold, this has been coming for along time he is not the only one with dirty hands.

MagicMtnDan
11-09-2005, 06:06 PM
When making fun of someone, make sure your shit is tight....
You just broke all the windows in your house....
You talking to me union guy? :confused: