Water powered car

[Cole Sanger]

Anyone see this? Is it real? Where do I sign up for it?
http://www.rratch.com/Misc/WaterFuel/WaterFuel.wmv

[NorCal Gameshow]

How much electricity does the electrolysis take?
if the car will run on water, why would he need a gas /water hybrid ?

[maxwedge]

How much electricity does the electrolysis take?
if the car will run on water, why would he need a gas /water hybrid ?
Uhh.. I'm sorry but that's proprietary information. Just trust him, it works lol. :crossx:

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Mythbusters destroyed it as a motor fuel method 2 nights ago (thurs). You can't manage to create the gas anywhere nearly as fast as the engine needs it. They folowed exacting plans from the internet of course, and even did some hi-tech tuning of it to optimize the current flow. No avail. They did run the car on bottled Hydrogen drafted into the carb top showing it is possible, but the electrolysis was far too slow. Make it all ahead of time & store it, can be done. Make on-damand, nope.
They tested 3 other "mileage improvement" wonders, all failures.
They DID manage to run a diesel on used french fryer oil (filtered). Lost about 10% mileage in the Merc they used (33 to 30 mpg) but it ran fine.

[NorCal Gameshow]

Mythbusters destroyed it as a motor fuel method 2 nights ago (thurs). You can't manage to create the gas anywhere nearly as fast as the engine needs it. They folowed exacting plans from the internet of course, and even did some hi-tech tuning of it to optimize the current flow. No avail. They did run the car on bottled Hydrogen drafted into the carb top showing it is possible, but the electrolysis was far too slow. Make it all ahead of time & store it, can be done. Make on-damand, nope.
They tested 3 other "mileage improvement" wonders, all failures.
They DID manage to run a diesel on used french fryer oil (filtered). Lost about 10% mileage in the Merc they used (33 to 30 mpg) but it ran fine.
some people run two tanks. they start the car on diesel and preheat the oil. then you shut it down on diesel. there's something about the fatty acid in the oil that will take it's toll on the engine long term.

[Flying Tiger]

Works best with a hot engine.
Start and stop on bio diesel, and switch it over to the french fry oil inbetween.
We have two 50 kw Hydrogen generators at my work.
Astronomical cost to build and run.
You can see one in action entering Union Train station, right side of tracks as you enter the platforms just before the county jail.
They burn super clean,, but the cost, unpractical.
The two jet engine units next to it are really reliable, but are expensive to purchase, and service.
Amonia injection cleans up the exhaust.

[NorCal Gameshow]

Works best with a hot engine.
Start and stop on bio diesel, and switch it over to the french fry oil inbetween.
We have two 50 kw Hydrogen generators at my work.
Astronomical cost to build and run.
Are they high pressure gas or liquid H2 ?

[Tom Brown]

...there's something about the fatty acid in the oil that will take it's toll on the engine long term.
Eventually it will clog and then you need a fuel rail bypass.

[ROZ]

Mythbusters destroyed it as a motor fuel method 2 nights ago (thurs). You can't manage to create the gas anywhere nearly as fast as the engine needs it. They folowed exacting plans from the internet of course, and even did some hi-tech tuning of it to optimize the current flow.
Mythbusters...kidding, right? There are a few less complex myths they busted that really did happen.. Just because they couldn't recreate a process they found on the internet (likely less cmplex than this inventor's patented process) doesn't mean the findings don't hold water... High tech tuning? ha... I guess they should have brought this guy in :D Those guys are the jack of all trades but masters of none..lol

[Cole Sanger]

I don't care if you have to do it before and fill your tank, that's what I have to do with gas or diesel now anyway. Except now I am at the mercy of the oil company's. Myth Busters: I would only listen to them if I had to learn how to blow up pants.

[OCMerrill]

This fryer, Biodeisel, home made fuel idea is a joke. I would actually like to have a hidden camera rolling footage while some joe smo goes into Wendy's and asks for their old fryer oil. Like the manager will just give it up. I would love to be proved wrong on this. I could just see the litagation fly over the drum that fell off some ass's truck. Hazmat license required.
The problem I have with that mythbusters show is I remember them blowing frozen chickens out of a fabed up air cannon but, I don't remember why. I know that it can be done though. Etched in my brain forever.

[Flying Tiger]

Are they high pressure gas or liquid H2 ?
Gas.

[myoung]

This fryer, Biodeisel, home made fuel idea is a joke. I would actually like to have a hidden camera rolling footage while some joe smo goes into Wendy's and asks for their old fryer oil. Like the manager will just give it up. I would love to be proved wrong on this. I could just see the litagation fly over the drum that fell off some ass's truck. Hazmat license required.
The problem I have with that mythbusters show is I remember them blowing frozen chickens out of a fabed up air cannon but, I don't remember why. I know that it can be done though. Etched in my brain forever.
Actually, that's pretty much all they do. Just go to the restaurants and tell 'em you'll take it for free and they're all over it. My buddy is looking to put a bio-diesel processor together and has already asked around to see where his supply could come from. They have told him they would let him pick it up, but I'm not sure of all the particulars. I doubt any major chain restaurants would as they most likely have contract obligations with companies that already dispose of the stuff, but it sounds like most small places still operate on hand shake deals with their current disposal people from what I hear. I can see what you mean though if there was a spill. I know this is still a grass roots thing and once it takes off I'm sure there will be all kinds of laws and regulations coming along to get it 'under control'. I know getting an EPA number for a business to store and dispose is a no brainer, but I don't know about transporting. I'm guessing, since they are willing to give my buddy the used oil with no paperwork involved that they're not currently required to have an EPA number and keep track of their disposal.......dunno. :idea:
My guess is the Govt' will get involved and try to make it so the average 'Joe shmo' could never afford to make his own once he jumps through all the financial hoops to be legal, and I imagine there will be stiff fines if you're caught illegally making the stuff. I'm sure there will be licenses required to be in posession of the equipment, to transport the used oil from the sources, or to even use it for any kind of fermenting process. There are already controling regulations and taxes for companies that mass produce it for sale. Add to that, I can see where the EPA will start requiring restaurants to account for the oils they buy and dispose of through records keeping like auto body shops are supposed to with paint materials and they'll be able to track who's taking the used oil and for what. All of this will, of course, lead to rogue opperations in peoples garages that will become the new 'meth labs' that can become dangerous to communities with the hazards involved with making the bio-diesel. Yeah, there's a dark cloud on the horizon for sure, that or my pesimistic side just keeps winning the debate.
As far as Myth Busters goes, I love watching that show cause they like to blow stuff up. :crossx:

[lakewake]

This fryer, Biodeisel, home made fuel idea is a joke. I would actually like to have a hidden camera rolling footage while some joe smo goes into Wendy's and asks for their old fryer oil. Like the manager will just give it up. I would love to be proved wrong on this. I could just see the litagation fly over the drum that fell off some ass's truck. Hazmat license required.
The problem I have with that mythbusters show is I remember them blowing frozen chickens out of a fabed up air cannon but, I don't remember why. I know that it can be done though. Etched in my brain forever.
The old Goodyear aerospace company now Lockheed Martin used the raw chickens to test the 600-800 mile impact of ducks and geese on the pilot canopy for the jet fighters. My brother is an engineer for both companies and it is a running joke at the company to be demoted to BB gun engineer.

[OCMerrill]

I can see where the EPA will start requiring restaurants to account for the oils they buy and dispose of through records keeping
The reason I say Joke is it just sounds so much easier than it is.
You make some excellent points and I could just imagine all the sticky tape that would legislate it's way into place. I share these same thoughts as you and I have to say for me its still tempting to try it. I use quite a bit of Diesel in my business with my bobtail trucks and all. I would bet I could make that deal work and pay off pretty damn quick as long as my sources stay easily avail. These ready-made machines are like $4k and Stacy of (old) Trucks sure makes it look easy but his shows are like long comercials so really how easy is it?
What do you do with all the left over glycerin? How do you get rid of that? I could just see the headlines....Greanpeace Sierra Club, Glamis sand walkers caught illegally dumping glycerin after making Bio Diesel!
I just don't know what restaurant wants to expose them self to the liability but bars serv drinks to drunk folk all the time. What's a little oil? If your collection tactics are sound then maybe? I smell a little payola here.
The old Goodyear aerospace company now Lockheed Martin used the raw chickens to test the 600-800 mile impact of ducks and geese on the pilot canopy for the jet fighters. My brother is an engineer for both companies and it is a running joke at the company to be demoted to BB gun engineer.
Thanks for that...It was driving me crazy trying to remember what the hell it was for. :rollside: I wonder if DCB tests their canopies with raw chickens :)

[Flying Tiger]

This fryer, Biodeisel, home made fuel idea is a joke. I would actually like to have a hidden camera rolling footage while some joe smo goes into Wendy's and asks for their old fryer oil. Like the manager will just give it up. I would love to be proved wrong on this. I could just see the litagation fly over the drum that fell off some ass's truck. Hazmat license required.
The problem I have with that mythbusters show is I remember them blowing frozen chickens out of a fabed up air cannon but, I don't remember why. I know that it can be done though. Etched in my brain forever.
The point is bio diesel fuel can be easily made here in the US - OPEC free.
It doesn't have to be used cooking oil, but fresh veg oil, clean and slightly thinned out, produced here in the US works too, and at a much cheaper cost.
Ethanol (E85) as a main fuel is coming. It's 100% home grown too, and sells in Iowa, Nebraska and Kansas for about a buck fifty a gallon cheaper than gasoline.
If you watch sports shows and see the flex fuel cars being advertised by GM,, it's the market their selling to. E85 is catching on fast, the US will be a major producer, and it'll correct the cost of OPEC fossil fuels.
Brazil is now 100% OPEC free, 15 million cars. E85 and synthetic oils produced by their agricultural industries. Works awsum.
It'll be no joke, E85 and bio diesel will be a BFD here in Cali and Hawaii within the next 36 months.

[HTRDLNCN]

What I think they will do is to somehow charge people who do this the road tax.
In most states thats 30-50c a gallon. Its illegal in any onroad vehicle to not pay this tax so its only a matter of time till they figure out a way to enforce it. If they didnt we could all be running offroad diesel in our trucks and saving alot of green.;)

[Flip]

Regarding running diesels on fryer oil.....
The first diesel model build by Von Diesel himself was built to run on peanut oil. Even way back then it was his intention to run an efficient motor on agricultural oils rather than petrol.
There are 2 ways of running on veggie oil. The 2 method are mutually exclusive. SVO (straight vegetable oil) and Biodiesel. \
SVO is what you saw on Mythbusters. In the case of used oil you just have to clean it throughly. In an SVO setup you HAVE to run 2 tanks. As stated before, you start your motor on petrol desiel then switch to SVO then back to petrol a few minutes before you shut it down. Basically, SVO will not combust on start up. There isn't enough bang in it to combust even at the high compression ratio of a diesel motor that is cold. However, after warming it up, a diesel motor with it's high compression ratio will combust just about any oil.
Bio-diesel is more akin to petrol diesel. It's a processed fuel. Basically, you take cleaned used oil, heat it up to 130 F, mix it with Meth-oxide (sodium hydroxide and methanol) and let it separate. You'll end up with raw bio-diesel and glycerine. After that it's just a matter washing and drying the BD and off you go. Washing the BD with remove any left over glycerine and some of the smaller particulates and is actually optional.
Glycerine. The glycerine actually mostly inert after the bio making process. In small quantities you could just pour it down the drain. In larger quantities it just a matter of taking one extra step to make it TOTALLY inert and biodegradeable. It's also VERY easy to make a very good soap out of it. Sound like something a tree hugger would do.....
Meth lab? I think not. While the Methoxide is VERY toxic and volatile you are only working with about 10 gallons per every 50 gallons of oil. For most counties it is legal to have up to 10 gallons of fuel (methanol) in your garage and you mix it into Methoxide until you're ready to process. And here's the big one. NO OPEN FLAME. Imagine a meth lab with some strung out guy working with methanol and a few other chemicals around an open flame. A bio processor will heat the oil with an electric element simular to that in an electric water heater.

[mike37]

Mythbusters...kidding, right? There are a few less complex myths they busted that really did happen.. Just because they couldn't recreate a process they found on the internet (likely less cmplex than this inventor's patented process) doesn't mean the findings don't hold water... High tech tuning? ha... I guess they should have brought this guy in :D Those guys are the jack of all trades but masters of none..lol
that what I was going to say
it was funny one night the did and ancient army that set a ship on fire with polished bras ore coper Shields by reflecting the sun the could not do it so they said myth busted
and that same night there was a documentary on a scientist that did the experiment with real Shields and boat in the same place the the story told of it happening and it worked this was all on video
myth busters got busted

[Jim W]

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee
Not for everyone but if a nation wide company was formed to recycle frier oils and the goverment made it mandatory for the oil to be re-cycled.
Wouldnt be any different than engine waste oil recycling now.
Use of the bio oil could be optional. Use it if you want, or not.
With the upcomming ultra low sulpher fuel, bio is a whole lot better for the injection systems.
Anything to cut OPEC off at the knees!!!
Be good, Jim

[Freak]

How much electricity does the electrolysis take?
if the car will run on water, why would he need a gas /water hybrid ?
Bingo....that water powered car is crap. Electrolysis is nothing new - they invented nothing and yep it takes more energy to make the gas than the energy the gas it puts out.

[Freak]

The point is bio diesel fuel can be easily made here in the US - OPEC free.
It doesn't have to be used cooking oil, but fresh veg oil, clean and slightly thinned out, produced here in the US works too, and at a much cheaper cost.
Ethanol (E85) as a main fuel is coming. It's 100% home grown too, and sells in Iowa, Nebraska and Kansas for about a buck fifty a gallon cheaper than gasoline.
If you watch sports shows and see the flex fuel cars being advertised by GM,, it's the market their selling to. E85 is catching on fast, the US will be a major producer, and it'll correct the cost of OPEC fossil fuels.
Brazil is now 100% OPEC free, 15 million cars. E85 and synthetic oils produced by their agricultural industries. Works awsum.
It'll be no joke, E85 and bio diesel will be a BFD here in Cali and Hawaii within the next 36 months.
Excellent post on how hydrogen is unpractical.
Brazil is opec free cause they drilled their own wells for oil and they have serious problems making enough e85 for the demand now. They are worried about being able to supply future demand.
Then take in account that they have labor in the field that gets paid next to nothing to harvest the stuff.
Now if you factor in the cost of the farm equipment fuel the fertalizer the trasportation of the ethanol and so fourth and the shear amount of biomass that would be needed to make a dent in the daily consumption of fuel here in the usa (grow plants for fuel or food? your choice) it becomes apparent that it's not going to be our savior. Once many demand it, it's not going to be cheap.
The energy in 3 gallons of ethanol is equal to one gallon of gas. That is why gas is such awsome stuff and nothing comes close.
I know I know technology will save us. :) ...it's the same technology that got us here in the first place. Technology is not energy.
Conservation will not work either. What you conserve someone else will gladly use.
Personally I am hoping aliens will throw us a bone real soon. :idea:

[Hal]

Interesting reading on ethanol....
Hey, wait a minute The conventional wisdom debunked.
Corn Dog
The ethanol subsidy is worse than you can imagine.
By Robert Bryce
Posted Tuesday, July 19, 2005, at 8:12 AM ET
Running on empty: Is ethanol the answer?
For the last generation, ethanol has been America's fuel of the future. But there has never been more hype about it than there is today. Green-energy analysts like Amory Lovins, environmental groups like the Natural Resources Defense Council, neoconservatives like James Woolsey, and farm groups like the American Coalition for Ethanol are all touting the biofuel.
Making ethanol, they claim, will help America achieve the elusive goal of "energy security" while helping farmers, reducing oil imports, and stimulating the American economy. But the ethanol boosters are ignoring some unpleasant facts: Ethanol won't significantly reduce our oil imports; adding more ethanol to our gas tanks adds further complexity to our motor-fuel supply chain, which will lead to further price hikes at the pump; and, most important (and most astonishing), it may take more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than it actually contains.
The greens, hawks, and farmers helped convince the Senate to add an ethanol provision to the energy bill—now awaiting action by a House-Senate conference committee—that would require refiners to more than double their use of ethanol to 8 billion gallons per year by 2012. The provision is the latest installment of the ethanol subsidy, a handout that has cost American taxpayers billions of dollars during the last three decades, with little to show for it. It also shovels yet more federal cash on the single most subsidized crop in America, corn. Between 1995 and 2003, federal corn subsidies totaled $37.3 billion. That's more than twice the amount spent on wheat subsidies, three times the amount spent on soybeans, and 70 times the amount spent on tobacco.
Continue Article
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The stickiest question about ethanol is this: Does making alcohol from grain or plant waste really create any new energy?
The answer, of course, depends upon whom you ask. The ethanol lobby claims there's a 30 percent net gain in BTUs from ethanol made from corn. Other boosters, including Woolsey, claim there are huge energy gains (as much as 700 percent) to be had by making ethanol from grass.
But the ethanol critics have shown that the industry calculations are bogus. David Pimentel, a professor of ecology at Cornell University who has been studying grain alcohol for 20 years, and Tad Patzek, an engineering professor at the University of California, Berkeley, co-wrote a recent report that estimates that making ethanol from corn requires 29 percent more fossil energy than the ethanol fuel itself actually contains.
The two scientists calculated all the fuel inputs for ethanol production—from the diesel fuel for the tractor planting the corn, to the fertilizer put in the field, to the energy needed at the processing plant—and found that ethanol is a net energy-loser. According to their calculations, ethanol contains about 76,000 BTUs per gallon, but producing that ethanol from corn takes about 98,000 BTUs. For comparison, a gallon of gasoline contains about 116,000 BTUs per gallon. But making that gallon of gas—from drilling the well, to transportation, through refining—requires around 22,000 BTUs.
In addition to their findings on corn, they determined that making ethanol from switch grass requires 50 percent more fossil energy than the ethanol yields, wood biomass 57 percent more, and sunflowers 118 percent more. The best yield comes from soybeans, but they, too, are a net loser, requiring 27 percent more fossil energy than the biodiesel fuel produced. In other words, more ethanol production will increase America's total energy consumption, not decrease it. (Pimentel has not taken money from the oil or refining industries. Patzek runs the UC Oil Consortium, which does research on oil and is funded by oil companies. His ethanol research is not funded by the oil or refining industries*.)
Ethanol poses other serious difficulties for our energy economy. First, 8 billion gallons of ethanol will do almost nothing to reduce our oil imports. Eight billion gallons may sound like a lot, until you realize that America burned more than 134 billion gallons of gasoline last year. By 2012, those 8 billion gallons might reduce America's overall oil consumption by 0.5 percent. Way back in 1997, the General Accounting Office concluded that "ethanol's potential for substituting for petroleum is so small that it is unlikely to significantly affect overall energy security." That's still true today.
Adding more ethanol will also increase the complexity of America's refining infrastructure, which is already straining to meet demand, thus raising pump prices. Ethanol must be blended with gasoline. But ethanol absorbs water. Gasoline doesn't. Therefore, ethanol cannot be shipped by regular petroleum pipelines. Instead, it must be segregated from other motor fuels and shipped by truck, rail car, or barge. Those shipping methods are far more expensive than pipelines.
There's another problem: Ethanol, when mixed with gasoline, causes the mixture to evaporate very quickly. That forces refiners to dramatically alter their gasoline to compensate for the ethanol. (Throughout the year, refiners adjust the vapor pressure of their fuel to compensate for the change in air temperature. In summer, you want gasoline to evaporate slowly. In winter, you want it to evaporate quickly.) In a report released last month, the GAO underscored the evaporative problems posed by ethanol, saying that compensating for ethanol forces refiners to remove certain liquids from their gasoline: "Removing these components and reprocessing them or diverting them to other products increases the cost of making ethanol-blended gasoline."
In addition to the transportation and volatility issues, ethanol will add yet more blends of gasoline to the retail market. Last year, American refiners produced 45 different types of gasoline. Each type of gasoline needs specific tanks and pipes. Adding ethanol to the 45 blends we already have means we will be "making more blends for more markets. That complexity means more costs," says David Pursell, a partner at Pickering Energy Partners, a Houston brokerage.
There's a final point to be raised about ethanol: It contains only about two-thirds as much energy as gasoline. Thus, when it gets blended with regular gasoline, it lowers the heat content of the fuel. So, while a gallon of ethanol-blended gas may cost the same as regular gasoline, it won't take you as far.
What frustrates critics is that there are sensible ways to reduce our motor-fuel use and bolster renewable energy—they just don't help the corn lobby. Patzek points out that if we channeled the billions spent on ethanol into fuel-efficient cars and solar cells, "That would give us so much more bang for the buck that it's a no-brainer."
Correction, July 20, 2005: The article originally stated that ethanol critics David Pimentel and Tad Patzek received no oil-industry funding. Pimentel receives no such funding, but Patzek runs the UC Oil Consortium, which does research on oil and is funded by oil companies. His ethanol research is not funded by the oil industry. Return to the corrected sentence.
Robert Bryce, managing editor of World Energy Monthly Review, is the author of Cronies: Oil, the Bushes, and the Rise of Texas, America's Superstate, which was just released in paperback

[Cheap Thrills]

Another water powered car ? (http://livedigital.com/content/39365/u3984)
C.T. :wink:

[Sleek-Jet]

I see ethanol being a regional fuel, much as it is now. Maybe in a few other key markets, but mostly in the bread basket states.

[spectras only]

The majority of government vehicles in canada back east, are running on E85. Also there are gas stations here selling diesel and biodiesel . The bio is only a few cents cheaper though. I also know someone who collects the stuff from restaurants and making his own.