Timing Questions- 460 Content

[stashtrey]

Just bought a Pertronix electronic ignition conversion for my 460 Ford. I've never timed an engine so this will be my first time. I bought a decent timing light and I'm just trying to prepare myself now.
What is the proper timing for a stock, marine 460 Ford? I thought I read some place someone said 8 deg before top dead center..... any suggestions? With gas prices like they are and the overall old age of my motor I'd like to have it set at something mild.
Which plug, when looking at the motor from the front, would be the #1 plug? I read it would be driver side (on left hand drive jet boat) plug....
With this electronic Pertronix kit... I shouldn't have to worry about things like 'dwell' or 'gap' anymore.... correct? I just need to install the unit and time the engine and I should be good to go?
One more thing... does anyone know what direction a Prestolite 460 distributor rotates? Counter clock or clockwise?
As usual... thanks in advance for any help and advice I get!!! !

[stashtrey]

I brought the boat home today and pulled the back seat to get a look at the front of the engine.... trying to familiarize myself before I go out and try to do the timing.
I was able to find the markings on the crank/harmonic balancer..... but I have this large aluminum plate on the front of the motor and I can't seem to locate anything on the engine block to reference with the markings on the crank/balancer.
Am I missing something?
Here's a picture of what I was looking at... maybe I'm just too much of a noob to figure this out. I'm starting to lose my mind (see my other thread).
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1093751/fronteng2.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1093751/fronteng1.jpg
Also... after installing the pertronix electronic conversion.... I'm now unable to get the motor to start. It's getting spark but just gasping and it even backfired through the carb.
I'm ready to put this thing out in the bad side of town and let someone steal it.

[ONAROLL]

you should have a "pointer" on that aluminum plate, you will have to time it by ear, as you turn the motor over to start it, rotate your distributor till it starts, when your motor starts, slowly continue to rotate the distributor till it smooths out, continue to rotate it till the motor idles up, back it off just a little and tighten your distrubutor clamp, try to restart the motor in this position if it starts good, leave it and find a timing pointer, it wont be perfect but half the guys I know dont even time with a light.........Vic

[stashtrey]

Yeah... I looked for quite a while to find some kind of pointer or mark on that aluminum plate but I honestly couldn't see anything.
I tried to rotate the distributor nudge by nudge to see if I could get it to start but that's when the gigantic backfire came out of my carb. I got a little worried that I was going to destroy something and decided to call it a day.
Should I be worried about that backfire through the carb?
I guess I installed the Pertronix properly as the motor was definitely getting spark.....
I have an appointment on Tuesday to bring my boat into a shop right by my house that works on jet boats..... .maybe I should just leave this up to people that actually do this for a living.... I feel I'm out of my element.

[ONAROLL]

ah shit........it gets more interesting after you "almost" burn your garage down a couple times..............

[stashtrey]

You can say that again.
My wife is losing patience with my new 'hobby'.
But seriously.... can a backfire through the carb cause any damage.... should I be concerned about anything?

[ONAROLL]

You could have blown a power valve in your carb, no big deal, just let your mechanic know about the backfire............

[stashtrey]

Right on... as you can probably tell I'm a bit neurotic and paranoid when it comes to this stuff.
Hopefully this shop will do good work for me. It was the only shop in town that I could get to see my boat on short notice. I'm supposed to be at Berryessa with my brother and his family Friday morning for two nights..... I don't want to be my brother's boat bitch all weekend.... rather have my own!!
Thanks for your time and for easing my mind!! Hopefully I'll report back with good news.

[Hallett19]

I have backfired my 460 dozens of times, just happens, and never blew a power valve either but I heard that is what can happen. You will get it running fine, I'm sure, but that MSD, its where its at, trust me !
And are there numbers on your dampener to reference once you get a pointer on there ? Mine were covered by a few crappy paint jobs, I sandblasted mine, painted it Ford Blue and can see all the numbers fine now

[LakesOnly]

First of all, the #1 cylinder is the forward most cylinder on the passenger-side cylinder bank, not the driver's side. This is probably why your engine is backfiring and not starting.
.................(FAN)..................
........5.....................1..........
........6.....................2..........
........7.....................3..........
........8.....................4..........
.............(FLYWHEEL)..............
So get your timing light off number five and put it on number one. Make sure your distributor was oriented correctly for this configuration...in other words, did you install the dizzy with the thought that #5 was number #1? If so, pull it out and reset it.
LO

[stashtrey]

Lakes Only- I didn't touch a thing yesterday. The distributor has probably been in there for 30 years. The boat ran beautifully last season..... I got it out of storage and couldn't get it started this year. Pulled the cap off the dizzy, removed the points with the idea that I would replace them. The auto store I used gave me the wrong points so I just cleaned the old ones and put them back in.... I 'attempted' to set the gap. I then put it back together and was able to start the motor.
The problem started when I took it out last weekend and the boat was underpowered and not running right. It got me around but there was definitely a lack of power and the engine sounded a little funny.... it would hesitate if I put the throttle down quickly and I got some vibration at speed. I could barely get on plane and once I was on plane that was about all the speed I could get.
I started a thread on here asking questions and the consensus was that it was my timing due to me messing with the points and not really knowing what I was doing. That's when I bought the Pertronix. I did notice last night after I made a diagram/drawing of my plug wire routing that it seems there are a couple that are off..... but I don't remember ever removing all the wires at the same time last year and as I mentioned before the boat ran hard and strong all last year.
I was trying to figure out last night how you truly tell which spot on your distributor is #1.... the cap I have has '1' written in black ink on the top of the cap.... but all wires are out of order according to that starting point. If I move over one spot on the cap... just to the right of that '1' I have all wires in order except the #2 and #3... those are switched up... otherwise all are in order. This has me really confused.

[b's sanger]

I may have a pointer you can have. It is stock and attaches a little lower than the water block-off plate in the timing cover. It's chrome plated. I'll send it to you if you want it. Just have to send back a check covering the shipping. Don't know if it would be cheaper to buy one from Ford or not let me know.
Brian

[rerfert]

460 ford firing order is counter clockwise and (1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 )
My#1 plug wire is on the right side marked in white #1.
Looking at the front pulley...#1 cylinder is on the left bank front cylinder is #1
http://www.yumaduners.com/albums/album41/MVC_002F_002.sized.jpg
Timing pointer on my motor looks like this stock.
http://www.yumaduners.com/albums/album41/MVC_001F_002.sized.jpg
I got my motor idleing today but have a rattle in what sounds like the front pulley? But that is for another thread :)

[stashtrey]

Wow... thanks for all the input!
b's sanger- thanks for the offer... very generous of you. Fortunately I found a guy right around the corner from my house that has a long history of drag boat racing, circle racing etc. Apparently was pretty involved for many years. His name is Ken (his last name has excaped me). I got my boat in to them this morning at 8:30 and it was ready to go by noon.
I had a lot of fuel in the cylinders, timing was way off and my plug wires were all out of order. They fixed everything up and it runs great now.
I appreciate all the help and advice everyone has given me. I know my posts must get annoying but I'm just a rookie here.... just trying to learn. :)
Enjoy your summer!!

[Oldsquirt]

Good to hear you got everything worked out. Hopefully it will even result in a little more RPM/MPH for you.

[stashtrey]

Thanks, Old Squirt!
I'm trying to convince my friend to take the afternoon off work tomorrow so he can come out to the lake. I'm dying to get on the water.... my last trip was such a disappointment with the lack of power.... it was a tease.
After hearing the motor run today.... I'm really excited. It sounds much more crisp and solid.
I'll report back with pics!

[b's sanger]

No thanks needed. Most everyone here is willing to help whenever necessary. Enjoy your ride. And, as always, Go "Old School" or go home. :crossx:

[rrrr]

Glad you found someone to help. Have fun this summer!