what cam should I use

[holorinhal]

Hello peep's
I have a couple of questions about My BBC build.
My engine is with the builder now and I am to the point of needing to select a cam,intake and carb.
here is a list of what I have now.
454 two bolt studed block bored .030"
Scat (all forged) 4.25 "stroker" kit,external ballanced.
Pistons are dome top
Comperetion ratio will be about 10.5-1
Heads are large oval port ,factory cast heads,will be ported,pollished and fitted with larger than stock valves and roller rockers.
I will be running this motor in an 18' kona,with a jaquzzi 12wj pump and a 'B' impeller.
I will be using the boat for some good ole rive racing and alitle rereational skiing.
Iwant the motor to be reliable(not having to wrench onit every time i take it out) and hve some what of a smooth idle.
My questions are ,what cam do You think will make a good combination?
What kind of intake,single or dual plane ,should I use?
What kind and size, carb would work best?
And Yor opinions on any thing else that I might need to do.
The previous owner had a motor in this same boat and pump that was pushing 700hp or better.
I will appreaciate any of You'r imput on this,and thaks inadvance..Hal

[Squirtin Thunder]

If you are not going to flow the heads and want an off the shelf cam, I would look at the Comp Cams Extreem Marine series cams.

[holorinhal]

flowing the heads are part of the plan for them.

[AZKC]

If you are not going to flow the heads and want an off the shelf cam, I would look at the Comp Cams Extreem Marine series cams.
These are good off the shelf cams and set up for jets.

[Squirtin Thunder]

flowing the heads are part of the plan for them.
Because you plan to flow the heads I would call Chris Strabb, he as a very good handle on cam selection, one of the best in the buisness.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

I'm running something (ok, REMOTELY) similar in my Taylor. Unstroked 454 and 8.5:1 compression. I got a full kit with a special cut from DuaneHTP he has Iskendarian grind. It's a .565" lift and 280* duration hydraulic but the ramps are cut for faster opening than typical. It's a great runner under my holley 700 and Performer RPM Air Gap. With factory logs I saw 350 HP, Thru-hull headers should put me right at 400, the porting job I am going to get NEXT year on my open-chamber '049 heads (larger valves too) should put me very close to 500 HP and over 500'lbs torque, still on low-octane.

[QuickJet]

The previous owner had a motor in this same boat and pump that was pushing 700hp or better.
I will appreaciate any of You'r imput on this,and thaks inadvance..Hal
700 HP in front of a Jacuzzi sounds like someone was missmanaging some funds along the way.
Anyways, the cam you want to run is the Isky Z89. It's a solid flat tappet and it works great. .636 lift and 254 @ .50 on a 108.
I'd upgrade the pump hardware with the Berkley jacuzzi kit.
I might get some shit for this but run the tunnel ram with either a set of 660's or better.
If you go single carb, run the victor with a 2 inch spacer and an 850 DP
The cam isn't going to give you the idle you want. You won't care though since you'll be too busy smiling and mashing the pedal!

[holorinhal]

The pump was rebuilt ,with 0 hrs on it and was fitted with a berkley impeller.I guess this is the berkley kit that you are refering to,hopefully.

[QuickJet]

The pump was rebuilt ,with 0 hrs on it and was fitted with a berkley impeller.I guess this is the berkley kit that you are refering to,hopefully.
If you want to find out more about the kit contact Greg shoemaker at GS marine. His # is (909) 272-6060. He's located in Corona California. He's said that the kit is good for 6-10 mph over a stock Jacuzzi depending on your motor combo.
Enjoy!!!

[holorinhal]

the pump is running a berkley impeller,I think the previous owner said that the work was done by clay smith cams,atleast i know his engine was built by them.
What is the pros and cons of single plane vs dualplane intakes.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Anyways, the cam you want to run is the Isky Z89. It's a solid flat tappet and it works great. .636 lift and 254 @ .50 on a 108.
THATS TOO MUCH CAM FOR A LOW COMPRESSION MOTOR!!!!! I run a similar clay smith cam and I am at 12.5-1 compression......

[Squirtin Thunder]

Because you plan to flow the heads I would call Chris Strabb, he as a very good handle on cam selection, one of the best in the buisness.
Chris is the Cam Man !!!

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Chris is the Cam Man !!!
yup:)

[lucky]

When i did my ol mans jet ( yes i too was a jet boat fag - still am everyonce in awhile ) I built a 4 bolt 461 ci chevy steel crank ls6 rods with 7/16 bolts trw 10.5 with 118 cumbustion chamber big valves , square port heads tunnel ram with 750's and a mag -- I ran a comp cam magnum 305 duration 575 lift 110 lobes cam -- and it sounds very nice and runs decent I was 18 when i did this - If i where to do it now - I'd run a smaller cam Or bump up to a straight b impellor -I have a a/b now behind a bezerkley jc pump - this last year i finially got the ol man to put a diverter on it - I'm still trying to get him to move the pump back as the Tarva hull runs a lil wetter than i would like - the boat will run 70 ish all day -- and has been very reliable for over 15 years ... so bottom line Run a smaller Cam - stay in your power range --

[MACHINEHEAD]

Going up or down 5 degrees of cam duration on a set of fairly stock oval ports isnt going to hurt power more than 20hp.Logs 235/245 real headers 245/250 @.050 and find something with lower lift .560/.580. Hyd. flat W/Rhodes lifters (for idle quality) springs with no more than 125lbs on the seat and 320 open. Air gap/ 850. Done

[jimthetoolman]

I would go with the Isky z-33 its smaller than the z-89. The z-33 has a great lope and very responsive. I am currently using a Comp Cams Xtreme Marine cam in my 502. Here is the specs on the Comp Cams:
Part Number 11-244-4
Engine 1965-1996 Chevrolet
396ci-454ci
8cyl.
Grind Number CB XM 288H-12
Description
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Intake Exhaust
Valve Adjustment 0 0
Gross Valve Lift 0.57 0.575
Duration At 0.006 Tappet Lift 288 304
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Valve Timing At 0.006
Open Close
Intake 34 74
Exhaust 86 38
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These Specs Are For The Cam Installed At 110 Intake CL
Intake Exhaust
Duration At 0.05 244 254
Lobe Lift 0.335 0.338
Lobe Separation 112
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recommended Valve Springs 924-16
Here is the Isky specs:
TIMING CHART
PART NUMBER: 396233 GRIND NUMBER: z-33
ENGINE INFO: CHEVY BIG BLOCK V8 396-402-427-454 CU.IN. APPLICATION:
SPECIAL REMARKS: SOLID PRODUCT USE: STREET/STRIP
RPM RANGE: 3000-7000
Valve lift is calculated with zero lash and rocker ratio of 1.75
INTAKE TIMING DURATION: 290 deg.
OPEN: 37 BEFORE TDC
CLOSE: 73 AFTER BDC
CAM LIFT: .320"
VALVE LIFT: .560"
VALVE LASH: .03 HOT
.032 COLD
EXHAUST TIMING DURATION: 290 deg.
OPEN: 73 BEFORE BDC
CLOSE: 37 AFTER TDC
CAM LIFT: .320"
VALVE LIFT: .560"
VALVE LASH: .03 HOT
.032 COLD
LOBE CENTER: 108 deg. OVERLAP: 74 deg. CAM ADVANCE: 0 deg.
THE ABOVE TIMING IS CHECKED AT .020 (OPEN) LIFTER RISE
.020 (CLOSE)
The following timing is taken at .050" lifter rise and gives a more accurate determination of camshaft position.
INTAKE DURATION: 250 deg.
OPEN: 17 BEFORE TDC
CLOSE: 53 AFTER BDC
EXHAUST DURATION: 250 deg.
OPEN: 53 BEFORE BDC
CLOSE: 17 AFTER TDC
RECOMMENDED ISKY CAM KIT PARTS AND SETUP INFORMATION
LIFTERS: 202-H LIFTER TYPE: SOLID
SPRING: 8005-A TYPE: dual w/damper DIA.: 1.530" RATE: 400 lbs per inch
INSTALLED HEIGHT: 1.875" SEAT PRESSURE: 135 lbs OPEN PRESSURE: 395 lbs
COIL BIND: 1.160"
SPRING SHIMS: # 2
STEEL RETAINERS: 347-ST
TITANIUM RETAINERS: 91-TI
PUSHRODS: 203-96 TYPE: heat treated non-adj LENGTH: int - 8.281" / Exh - 9.250" DIA.: 3/8"
ROCKER ARMS: 204-96 TYPE: roller RATIO: 1.72
VALVE LOCKS: VL-3/8
VALVE LOCKS: VL-3/8
REV KIT
Just my 2 cents worth. Good luck.

[MACHINEHEAD]

That isky will make identicle hp figures as the comp. Even though the isky is 250@.050, and the comp is 244. The difference being once you get past the clearence ramp of the isky solid, and the tappet begins to move, you will net the same area as the 244 lobe. The proof is in the valve events that are listed in the previous post. They are within a couple of degrees. Plus you get the added benifit of the hyd. maintenance issue. And go dual pattern unless your head porter can get huge exhaust flow numbers or running log manifolds. By the way this is as big as I would go. This thing is going to make about 535 hp with headers. Its only going to turn about 5200rpm on a good day with your fresh pump. Either of these cams are going to peak at 5600 rpm. That waisted 400rpm is going to sound cool when its idleing though!!! :boxed:

[MACHINEHEAD]

Just noticed your first post, b impellor. Run either of these cams. Or go to the next one up, my favorite and most used hyd. flat Crane 134571 246/254 571/585lift w/ Rhodes. Softer old profile with less agressive ramps, lives all day at 4000rpm. 10.5:1 :idea: IRON heads 104oct. min!!!!! NO PUMP GAS FOR YOU!

[RCB19]

Well let me throw this out. I have a combo that works pretty well for what it is.
468 BBC.
GM forged crank 4.00 stroke.
GM 6.135" rods.
GM 4B main block.
JE/SRP pistions w/ final compression ratio of 9.75
*Clay Smith solid tappet Grind# C-304-8-B, 258@.050 int/exh, 108LC, 615 lift int/exh.*
GM 049 large oval port heads ported intake and exhaust ports, combustion chamber work, bench flowed, sporting manley 2.19in 1.88ex valves and Isky springs & roller rockers.
E-brock Victor jr manifold port matched to heads.
Holley 850 re-worked by C&J engineering & now flows around 900 sitting on top of a 1" spacer.
MSD ignition system 38* total advance.
OT headers.
This combo is connected to a MPD set up Berkley pump loaded with a Berkley "B" impeller and will spin 5700 all day long.
Nothing special about this motor but it runs hard for what it is. Some here might say that the cam I am running is too big. I dont think that the results from it are by any means lazy. Holorinhal's stroker motor would like this cam or possibly the next size up. It's all in having the right combination of parts to make um run hard. My 02cts.
Happy T Day

[jimthetoolman]

That isky will make identicle hp figures as the comp. Even though the isky is 250@.050, and the comp is 244. The difference being once you get past the clearence ramp of the isky solid, and the tappet begins to move, you will net the same area as the 244 lobe. The proof is in the valve events that are listed in the previous post. They are within a couple of degrees. Plus you get the added benifit of the hyd. maintenance issue. And go dual pattern unless your head porter can get huge exhaust flow numbers or running log manifolds. By the way this is as big as I would go. This thing is going to make about 535 hp with headers. Its only going to turn about 5200rpm on a good day with your fresh pump. Either of these cams are going to peak at 5600 rpm. That waisted 400rpm is going to sound cool when its idleing though!!! :boxed:
When I ran the numbers on my engine with the Xtreme Marine cam I was around 635 h/p with my rect port heads and tunnel ram with 2 750's with basset headers. This combo works real good. No hesitation just flat ass getting with the program. I was concerned about to much cylinder pressure with my 30 over 509.

[holorinhal]

Thank's Guy's ,for all the input on this subject.
I am looking to get as much HP as I can,but It's not like I have an unlimmited suply of dollars,either.
I researched the Edlbrock Victor intake and talked with my builder and He agreed that would be a good intake,with about a 1000cfm carb.
I am a little lost when it comes to what works best with the jet pump.
that is why I really want to get the cam situation right.
I am not going the roller way,as I would rather appropriate the additional funds in some other direction.
As I have mentioned before ,the pump was rebuilt about 4 years ago ,by the previous owner,but never had any hrs put on it.
He reported that the pump was moddified to run a berkley impeller,and that was an old racing trick fror jet boat drag racing.I thought he said that Clay smith cams had done the work.Has any one heard of thi technique?
I know that the pev. owner had a fullout race engine in the boat and was pushing way more hp and rpms than what I will probobly be running.
With the 454 stroker(489c.i.d.)10.5-1 compretion,and ported, polished,and possibly flowed,large oval port heads,with large valves,I just want to make absoloutley sure ,that I make the right choice of Cam selection!
I want to be competitive on the river,but still have a reliable engine,with good tourqe and good throtle response.
I want to go FAST! well as fast as I can with what i have to work with.
In regards to my heads I was talking to my builder yesterday,and we were discussing the head work.He ask if i had thought about a set of atermarket heads,because by the time i get finnished with allthe head work,I will be half way to purchasing a new set of alluminum heads.
The heads I have are #336781's.what is the diffrence in these heads and #049's.The casting chart that I am looking at says they are the same specs.
What would be the advantage to justify the cost diffrence,in using the alumminum heads Vs.the Cast heads that I have.
I am not aposed to shelling out the extra bucks,if there is a major advantage,like increased horsepower or tourqe.
Any way Please keep the great ideas comming,I really apreaciate it..Hal

[steelcomp]

Going up or down 5 degrees of cam duration on a set of fairly stock oval ports isnt going to hurt power more than 20hp.Logs 235/245 real headers 245/250 @.050 and find something with lower lift .560/.580. Hyd. flat W/Rhodes lifters (for idle quality) springs with no more than 125lbs on the seat and 320 open. Air gap/ 850. Done
Machinehead...you sound fairly knowledgable. How did you come to the conclusion about the duration numbers? In my limited experience, 5 deg. can make a huge difference, not only in power, but where that power is, and what the torque curve looks like. Besides, 20hp is 20hp.
Hal, there's no way any of these examples can be compared to your motor. The bottom line is, if you want to build your engine correctly, and MAXIMISE it's POTENTIAL, the cam will be the last thing you want to decide on. There's a lot of info you need before you're going to know which will be right. The first thing is, you're building a stroker. (which I didn't hear anyone mention) This changes the dynamics of your motor, and the cam will have to be designed accordingly, along with other things. -OR- you can just fall in step with everyone else, have a "buddy" tell you what works "good" for his motor, and just blend in with the rest of the crowd, and leave unknown amounts of free (you have to buy a cam, might as well be the right one) HP on the table. If you can find a cam, off the shelf, that's the right cam for your combo, you're just lucky. Every engine combination is different, and for someone to "suggest" which cam to use, without knowing any more about your combination that you've posted, is just wrong. Well intended, but wrong.
Aluminum heads are probably the best "bang for the buck" you can do for your motor. They're a LOT lighter (that= quicker acceleration right off the bat), they have far more power potential out of the box, the aluminum is more forgiving to higher static compression than cast iron, (if you want to stay with pump gas) and you'll get the advantage of better technology as far as port and chamber shape and design. Again, though, the same cam for a motor with even the most tricked out cast iron heads won't be near the same for the alum. heads. The alum heads, (N/A) with the right cam and intake/carb can be worth 100+ hp over cast iron heads, plus the weight advantage.
Bottom line is, don't worry about the cam right now. Figure out what heads you will run, get the flow numbers, what comperssion, and the rpm you're going to want to run, and if you do this right, you'll be able to leave the rest of these guys behind you. When you get ready, talk to Chris Straub (not Strabb) He's CStraub69 here on the boards. You don't necessarily have to buy a cam from him, as he's just glad to help with the numbers to insure you have the right grind, and that you're optimizing your combination. This is key, and I can't stress it enough. There are a lot of boats out there with mucho $$ in nice parts that could be a LOT faster if they'd have taken the time to do just a few basic things in the beginning. Don't be one of them.
Good luck with your build.

[Cs19]

Machinehead, are you involved with Dougans?

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Thank's Guy's ,for all the input on this subject.
I am looking to get as much HP as I can,but It's not like I have an unlimmited suply of dollars,either.
I researched the Edlbrock Victor intake and talked with my builder and He agreed that would be a good intake,with about a 1000cfm carb.
I am a little lost when it comes to what works best with the jet pump.
that is why I really want to get the cam situation right.
I am not going the roller way,as I would rather appropriate the additional funds in some other direction.
As I have mentioned before ,the pump was rebuilt about 4 years ago ,by the previous owner,but never had any hrs put on it.
He reported that the pump was moddified to run a berkley impeller,and that was an old racing trick fror jet boat drag racing.I thought he said that Clay smith cams had done the work.Has any one heard of thi technique?
I know that the pev. owner had a fullout race engine in the boat and was pushing way more hp and rpms than what I will probobly be running.
With the 454 stroker(489c.i.d.)10.5-1 compretion,and ported, polished,and possibly flowed,large oval port heads,with large valves,I just want to make absoloutley sure ,that I make the right choice of Cam selection!
I want to be competitive on the river,but still have a reliable engine,with good tourqe and good throtle response.
I want to go FAST! well as fast as I can with what i have to work with.
In regards to my heads I was talking to my builder yesterday,and we were discussing the head work.He ask if i had thought about a set of atermarket heads,because by the time i get finnished with allthe head work,I will be half way to purchasing a new set of alluminum heads.
The heads I have are #336781's.what is the diffrence in these heads and #049's.The casting chart that I am looking at says they are the same specs.
What would be the advantage to justify the cost diffrence,in using the alumminum heads Vs.the Cast heads that I have.
I am not aposed to shelling out the extra bucks,if there is a major advantage,like increased horsepower or tourqe.
Any way Please keep the great ideas comming,I really apreaciate it..Hal
Just beware.
The most comon problem I see is over-camming here. What impeller are you running will determine (when crossed with the engine power envelope) what your max RPM is. My HP peak is 347HP at 3500, 349 @ 5000 (flat there) according to Desktop Dyno (I can't afford an afternoon at a dyno shop).
My berk A stops me at 4800 RPM.
With headers next year, I should perak at 404HP @ 5K, which (according to JP calk) SHOULD let me spin to just over 5K.
Porting my heads next winter should peak me at 523 @ 6K if the flow readings match some ported flows I found on the net for my heads. 5500 RPM tho matches the 513 HP I should make there so I will not be able to pull my peak HP, 6,000 RPM requiring 680HP on my impeller.
That victor manifold, and ESPECIALLY the 1,000 CFM carb concerns me as being too much and may do ya more harn than good. Others here have experience I cannot draw on tho and they may know your setup interaction better than I can estimate here.

[Cs19]

get a clay smith flat tappet, those make gobs of power.

[steelcomp]

get a clay smith flat tappet, those make gobs of power.ha ha

[Wicked Performance Boats]

get a clay smith flat tappet, those make gobs of power.
Budlight cast 1 vote for Clay Smith Cams! have worked great for me! BL

[Squirtin Thunder]

Then why waste money on flowing the heads if you are going to get an off the shelf cam ???

[RCB19]

get a clay smith flat tappet, those make gobs of power.
OOUUHHHH! :squiggle: Old Skool parts-Old Skool Cam=Old Skool Power. Ya I know my junk runs in a wheelchair but I'll get New Skool one day. We'll see how it does at Ming in the Spring. Shiot I can Rhyme... "NP"

[holorinhal]

When it comes to the pump impellers I an at a loss.I have been hoping some one would explain the diffrences between the impellers and the relatiopnship between cam and impeller.
Is there some place on the web that I can read about the impellers and their diffrences?
How do I find out what will work with My impeller.The pevious owner said it is a berkley "B" impeller in a Jaquzzi pump,and the Tag says it is a "B"impeller,but the tag is from the original manufacturing.
How do I find out for sure what impeller is in the thing?
What is the best impeller to run in a pump,"A",or "B"?
Where can I find info on impellers?......Hal

[Squirtin Thunder]

When it comes to the pump impellers I an at a loss.I have been hoping some one would explain the diffrences between the impellers and the relatiopnship between cam and impeller.
Is there some place on the web that I can read about the impellers and their diffrences?
How do I find out what will work with My impeller.The pevious owner said it is a berkley "B" impeller in a Jaquzzi pump,and the Tag says it is a "B"impeller,but the tag is from the original manufacturing.
How do I find out for sure what impeller is in the thing?
What is the best impeller to run in a pump,"A",or "B"?
Where can I find info on impellers?......Hal
When was the last time you checked your pms ???

[Cs19]

OOUUHHHH! :squiggle: Old Skool parts-Old Skool Cam=Old Skool Power. Ya I know my junk runs in a wheelchair but I'll get New Skool one day. We'll see how it does at Ming in the Spring. Shiot I can Rhyme... "NP"
Bring it out RCB, you'll love it.

[MACHINEHEAD]

Were talking about a stock headed 496. In my experience Going up or down 5degrees just doesnt change things much in this range of camshaft. If you have a cam that is 215 at 50 and go to a cam that is 225 at fifty you will see some big gains in power. This is because the cyl. heads are not a restriction at this point. As you aproach the limits of those cyl. heads on this 10.5:1 496 which would be about 235-240 at .050, camming up will only begin to shift the rpm range up. There is massive amounts of researce on this for the last 10 years in Hot Rod and Car Craft. And when I say approach the limits I mean obtaining the most amount of average hp and torque. We refer to this as the crosover point. There is no magic cam. However, this motor is not a 12.8:1 afr headed 496. This whole combination he is building is a comprimise for one reason or another. Just stick a farly stout hyd. flat in it and go drive it!! Longer stroke, special needs, WHAT?? And No I dont work for dougans

[steelcomp]

There is massive amounts of researce on this for the last 10 years in Hot Rod and Car Craft.Now I understand.

[MACHINEHEAD]

No you dont

[MACHINEHEAD]

But yes, a car guy converted by the pleasures of boating :)

[Squirtin Thunder]

There is no magic cam. However, this motor is not a 12.8:1 afr headed 496. This whole combination he is building is a comprimise for one reason or another. Just stick a farly stout hyd. flat in it and go drive it!! Longer stroke, special needs, WHAT?? And No I dont work for dougans
So why is he going to Flow the heads ??? Why not get the most out of your money ??? Cams don't creat magic, they optimize what you already have. So you feel if you are not running some Aluminum over priced head you can't make optimum power ??? 500hp is childs play nowadays. I am not saying he will get 800hp by flowing the heads and getting a custom ground cam. But why not get the most for your money ???

[MACHINEHEAD]

I wouldnt flow the heads either. and hyd. flats are cheap

[steelcomp]

I wouldnt flow the heads either. and hyd. flats are cheap
Cheap and lazy. Hmmm. :rolleyes:

[MACHINEHEAD]

Holorinhal are you planning on dynoing this combination?

[Gearhead]

I'm kinda like Steelcomp on this subject. The overall project and reasonable expectation need to be decided prior to begining the project. Not just picking a cool part at a time. Work with a knowledgeable engine builder, prior to any camshaft, carb, intake or head selection. Deciding which heads he is going to use is something that needs to be done early on and knowing the flow numbers will offer you a quick indication of where the power curve will fall. Then match the rest of the induction (intake and carb) and the camshaft to this operating range. This range will need to be within a reasonable range of what it will actually run within the hull/impellar designs. The camshaft design is also a pressure balance combination with the compression ratio. As has been mentioned, on pump gas or any other fuel, you can squeeze more compression with aluminum heads due to the heat dissipation characteristics of aluminum versus the heat retention of cast iron. Generally about one more point and on a boat the big radiator (lake) allows you to run your engine cooler which may allow a little more compression.
The dyno will definately assist in tuning the engine and then report the real operating range. the impellar can then be sized to operate in this range for maximum efficiency.
The dyno will not particulary help you tune a hodge podge engine well. An engine is just an air pump and can be related to an old computer phrase, "junk in - junk out". A well designed engine will be responsive and show you results as you tune on the dyno. As you adjust fuel curve the power will either show and increase or decrease, same thing with timing and lash loops on the cam. If the parts are not working in unison, then changes in jetting and/or timing may show little changes in power. These engines are more difficult to tune and generally as they are unresponsive on the dyno, they are also unresponsive in use.
It is much better to spend the time and $ to get a decent combination in the first place. you will be much happier in the long run. I would be much more interested in a decent power curve with good torque numbers within a realsitic RPM range than some big HP number in an RPM range that the boat will never see. (except when the pump is out of the water)

[QuickJet]

THATS TOO MUCH CAM FOR A LOW COMPRESSION MOTOR!!!!! I run a similar clay smith cam and I am at 12.5-1 compression......
Who has a low compression motor??? 10.5 -1 with cast iron heads is not low compression.
My Nova has 10.5 -1 with the same Z89 cam in a pump gas 468 that makes 680 hp. Runs 10.40's @ 132 all day. The cam / compression combo works!
http://www.norcal1320.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10085/Nova%20getting%20fuel.jpg

[holorinhal]

I would love the opportunity to have te engine dyno tested ,but I dont think that My budget will allow for it.
I am not saying that I will or will not have the heads flowed,rather I am looking for opinnions on what will work best,whether it be having My cast iorn heads ported,polished,flowed,blended,fit with larger valves,every thing that I can possibly do to them,or a combonatin of these things:Or should I ,for what it will cost to have the Iorn heads worked ,would I be better off ,spending the exra money on a set of aftermarket heads?
About the cams,Again I m just trying to draw on the vast amount of experiance that is found on this board from You Guy's.I know what it takes to build the horsepower and Rpm's ,needed for street aplications.What I do not Know is what combinations work best on boat's,on water ,and with jet drives,and that is what I an trying to learn.
My engine builder,(Dennis Dalsanto,of H.P.H.head's,In Las vegas) Is very knowledgeable,and I do trust his opinions towards the combination.I just want to have a knowledgable say in what goes on ,rather than sit back,clueless and not have any input at all,afterall it is My money and I want to make sure it is being used wisely to give me what I expect.
What I want is ,a motor that will be reliable(start every time,not leave me stranded and not have to wrench on every time I go to the river),have a decent idle(not lope so bad that I have keep in the gas to stay running),crisp throttle response,and decently competitve (speed wise)for a little friendly river/lake bracket racing.
NOW WHAT I NEED TO LEARN IS.
What is an optimum power/rpm range to accomplish this?
What is a good combination,to compliment the already established 489cid,shortblock,
cam and valvetrain set up,
Kind of head work,flow or not to flow,or are alluminum
heads a better choice.
Induction setup,to comlpiment the head and cam combo.
And any thing else I may be missing.
Is 500 hp childs play or do I need to think bigger?If so how big?
How much does it take to go 90 miles per hr with you,r hair on fire?
What is not enough and how much is too much?
...........Hal

[steelcomp]

If you think it's in your budget for a drop down set of cast iron heads (all that you listed) then don't waste your time on them, and get a set of Canfield 310's. They're all the head you need, the least expensive, yet they out-perform most of the 320's, and some of the 340's. If you talk to Chris Straub, he's worked with John Fenton, (owner of Canfield) and knows the Canfield's real well, and can put you right on track with your cam. (he probably knows if Can's advertised flow numbers are good enough to use)
With 12.4:1 and a TR w/2 1050's, I was able to get 821 hp and 680 lbs/ft. out of a little ol' 467. I expect that motor to be as user friendly as the family station wagon. No reason for it not to be.
You're on the right track...you'll get what you're looking for, just keep asking questions.

[MACHINEHEAD]

That sounds like a winning combo. Do you think his 2 bolt block will take that kind of a beating. Lets try to stay on track here, he wants to water ski and have a good idle. I know I know how bout' some low tension oil rings and a vac. pump yeh yeh

[Squirtin Thunder]

That sounds like a winning combo. Do you think his 2 bolt block will take that kind of a beating. Lets try to stay on track here, he wants to water ski and have a good idle. I know I know how bout' some low tension oil rings and a vac. pump yeh yeh
What are you running in your boat ???

[QuickJet]

Is 500 hp childs play or do I need to think bigger?If so how big?
How much does it take to go 90 miles per hr with you,r hair on fire?
What is not enough and how much is too much?
...........Hal
Hal,
I think that in your quest for 90 mph you will find that your Jacuzzi pump will be the main thing holding you back. There are enough guys with fast jets here who are willing to help you out, however I don't how many of them are doing it with the Jacuzzi on board.
And yes, it will take more than 500 noramally aspirated HP to get you to your benchmark. I could be wrong but I think your going to have to push the 700 hp envelope to get what you want out of her.
I wonder how hard it would be to hang a Berkley off the back of that boat :)

[steelcomp]

That sounds like a winning combo. Do you think his 2 bolt block will take that kind of a beating. Lets try to stay on track here, he wants to water ski and have a good idle. I know I know how bout' some low tension oil rings and a vac. pump yeh yeh
Sure, that 2 bolt will handle it. NO problem. Do you doubt it?
Sarcasm...that's always a good cover for not knowig WTF youre talking about.I am looking for opinnions on what will work best,whether it be having My cast iorn heads ported,polished,flowed,blended,fit with larger valves,every thing that I can possibly do to them,or a combonatin of these things:Or should I ,for what it will cost to have the Iorn heads worked ,would I be better off ,spending the exra money on a set of aftermarket heads? Just answering his question. So you're saying he'd be better off with the factory cast heads? (and low tension rings and a vac pump) Just trying to keep on track. :rolleyes:

[steelcomp]

Who has a low compression motor??? 10.5 -1 with cast iron heads is not low compression.
My Nova has 10.5 -1 with the same Z89 cam in a pump gas 468 that makes 680 hp. Runs 10.40's @ 132 all day. The cam / compression combo works!
http://www.norcal1320.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10085/Nova%20getting%20fuel.jpgQJ...that's low compression. Maybe not when trying to run pump gas, but compare it to a Winston Cup or Pro-Stock motor. They're running gas, and have 20:1+ CR. Now that's high! :D

[QuickJet]

QJ...that's low compression. Maybe not when trying to run pump gas, but compare it to a Winston Cup or Pro-Stock motor. They're running gas, and have 20:1+ CR. Now that's high! :D
Well when you put it that way........................ :sqeyes:

[RICHARD TILL]

call bullet racing cams. olive branch ms. 38654 662-893-5670 talk to john.(owner) tell him what you`ve got and what you want it to do and thats the way it will be. done business with him for 20 years. he used to work for joe lunati. lunati sold to holley and john now owns bullet. i`ve probably bought 30 cams from him and been satisfied with every one of them. i think that most all cams are good quality, its the selection that counts the most.........richard..........

[holorinhal]

here is a pic of my Kona,and the Jaquzzi pump.It is a 12wj.Every one keeps putting down the Jaquzzies.Are they not good pump's?
I don't know if any one has caught what I have described about the pump,but according to the previous owner,the pump was modified ,by Clay Smith cams to run a berkley "B"impeller.He said it is supposed to be an old race trick to the pump.Has any one ever heard of this technique. The previous owner ad some serrious muscle on that pump,In the neighborhood of 700-725hp,built by Clay smith Cams,atleast thats what he reported.He was running a higher compression ratio and a tunnel ram.
As for the 90 mph,that was just an expression.It would be awesome to get that kind of speed,with what I am building,but realisticly ,I am not expecting it.
Honestly ,I do not really know what kind of speed to expect,I would hope that it would be in the 70's at least.
wouldnt I have to change the pump intake ,
to put any other pump in it?
Is there any thing that I can add to the pump,to help it out and work better with the engine combo?The previous owner said it could use a ride plate and shoe.He said it tended to get a little squirly,when he was racing someone.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2774kona_015.jpg

[holorinhal]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2774kona_006-med.jpg
Oh and about the skiing thing I would like to beable to ski,but my number one prefferance is speed and performance!....Hal

[MACHINEHEAD]

Did you talk to bullett yet. Im curious to see what they have to say . Post the specs when you get a chance. After all this Ill bet its in you best interest to just call manufacturers directly. People get so side tracked, you dont even get an answer to your question. What cam should I use? Remember!!!!!!!!!!!

[Squirtin Thunder]

. People get so side tracked, you dont even get an answer to your question. What cam should I use? Remember!!!!!!!!!!!
Well what is the flow on the heads ??
Then give Chriss Strabb a call and he will help you out.
You will get the most out of what you want.

[Gearhead]

[QUOTE=holorinhal] ....
Is there any thing that I can add to the pump,to help it out and work better with the engine combo?The previous owner said it could use a ride plate and shoe.He said it tended to get a little squirly,when he was racing someone.
[QUOTE]
Some of the Jacuzzi pumps had secent potential. If you want to talk to someone with Jacuzzi experience, call Jac Sea or Scott Seastrum. Jac was with Jacuzzi when these pumps were designed and Scott worked with them for a number of years himself.
Scott's number 501-624-0137 and the last numer I had on Jac is 501-224-5399 but I am not sure it is current.

[MACHINEHEAD]

Nice job Gearhead. Now were getting somewhere. Squirtn, I have a set of iron ovals w/big valves like holerin, they are ported, Ill try to get them on the bench monday. Then we can see what were dealing with as far as flow numbers!

[steelcomp]

Did you talk to bullett yet. Im curious to see what they have to say . Post the specs when you get a chance. After all this Ill bet its in you best interest to just call manufacturers directly. People get so side tracked, you dont even get an answer to your question. What cam should I use? Remember!!!!!!!!!!!
He got the answer in the very beginning of the thread. The question is premature, and he was told that. Anyone who knows anything about building an engine would know that, especially when he hasn't even decided which heads he's going with.

[TRG]

He got the answer in the very beginning of the thread. The question is premature, and he was told that. Anyone who knows anything about building an engine would know that, especially when he hasn't even decided which heads he's going with.
If anyone has any questions as far as the creditability of machineheads work, all you have to do is drop a dime to Steve Brule (Westech), your questions will be answered, ive seen a shitpot of nice motors roll out of Concept Marine (Montclair) and never a return for falty motors every type of combo from v-drives to jets and everywhere in between, this cat comes from a long line of engine builders,...pretty sharp cookie!
Just my opinion, for what its worth!
Todd Griggs

[MACHINEHEAD]

Just pulled the oval port big valve (2.19/1.89) ported cast iron heads off the flow bench. Not to bad
.05-34
.1-58
.2-133
.3-197
.4-248
.5-280
.6-305
.7-310cfm@28'' int.
.05-27.5
.1-57
.2-105
.3-136
.4-164
.5-182
.6-197
.7-208
.8-220cfm w/pipe
This is probably what holerin will end up with give or take a few numbers
I also did some research and found these flow numbers to be the case with
most of the other big valve, ported, open and closed chamber , factory,cast iron ovals that have been tested here. Some people need this info to pick a cam I guess, so here it is. And when I say "ported" It looks like all that was done was an increase in all dimentions and alot of time making them real smooth and pretty.

[steelcomp]

Just pulled the oval port big valve (2.19/1.89) ported cast iron heads off the flow bench. Not to bad
.05-34
.1-58
.2-133
.3-197
.4-248
.5-280
.6-305
.7-310cfm@28'' int.
.05-27.5
.1-57
.2-105
.3-136
.4-164
.5-182
.6-197
.7-208
.8-220cfm w/pipe
This is probably what holerin will end up with give or take a few numbers
I also did some research and found these flow numbers to be the case with
most of the other big valve, ported, open and closed chamber , factory,cast iron ovals that have been tested here. Some people need this info to pick a cam I guess, so here it is. And when I say "ported" It looks like all that was done was an increase in all dimentions and alot of time making them real smooth and pretty.
Machinehead...that was pretty cool of you to flow those for everyone. Decent numbers, but if Hal is willing to step up to aluminum heads, why would he go with these?
What would be your cam choice for these heads?

[MACHINEHEAD]

Run them if you got them I guess. He could get close to 590hp with these heads and 535 with what he has, w/headers of course. No way to say if his engine guy can get them up to or past these numbers, but it doesnt look like there was anything speacial other than the bigger valves. Just bigger and smoother. This could be accomplished with the previously mentioned Crane.246/254hyd. flat.
Ran this cam many times before with an air gap and mighty marine 850. 591hp w/lightnings 599 w/bassetts. AFR 305 w/ cnc chamber 649hp same combo but dart single plane intake. AFR 305 w/cnc chamber 242/242 chet hyd. roller air gap/850 622hp. All 10 to 1 496s all had about 615-620 ft/lbs tourqe @4-4400rpm
All peaked 55-5900rpm for HP. The torque was the wierd thing, all within 5ft/lbs!! So, dont touch the heads 535hp. Buy candfield or Afr and get 100 hp! Or port the irons and get 60hp. My suggestion Get your wallet out Hal!!! :boxed:

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Not to hijack the thread but what would a set of edlebrock do to a stock 502? What is the average gains made with aluminum heads on a stock 502?

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

10.5:1 :idea: IRON heads 104oct. min!!!!! NO PUMP GAS FOR YOU!
Aint that the truth;);)

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Just pulled the oval port big valve (2.19/1.89) ported cast iron heads off the flow bench. Not to bad
.05-34
.1-58
.2-133
.3-197
.4-248
.5-280
.6-305
.7-310cfm@28'' int.
.05-27.5
.1-57
.2-105
.3-136
.4-164
.5-182
.6-197
.7-208
.8-220cfm w/pipe
This is probably what holerin will end up with give or take a few numbers
I also did some research and found these flow numbers to be the case with
most of the other big valve, ported, open and closed chamber , factory,cast iron ovals that have been tested here. Some people need this info to pick a cam I guess, so here it is. And when I say "ported" It looks like all that was done was an increase in all dimentions and alot of time making them real smooth and pretty.
Those are very impressive numbers for iron heads;) I like the idea of all iron block. Its funny when you spank someone running aluminum heads and your only running irons :rollside: :rollside: Bling doesnt always make it fast........Remember its knowledge;)

[Dogballs]

:220v:

[MACHINEHEAD]

502/502 crate motors have E heads just named GM sig. series. 224/234cam.
They make right at 525-530 horse w/ bassetts and victor/850.Dont know your cam!!