spam-580-inch blown BBC for sale

[cyclone]

SOLD.

[superdave013]

does the fat dude come with it? lol :p

[BBTAHITI]

Squirtin Cyclone... makin copies....

[Jordy]

does the fat dude come with it? lol :p
Dammit SD, ya took my comment. I think he does, but you have to pay extra if you want the bling. :D :D :D

[victorfb]

he's not fat, he's just big boned.

[Taylorman]

Dam, what now Cyclone. I can't keep up with you.

[BUSBY]

Can you say aluminum block? :D

[Taylorman]

Did ya'll talk him into a hat and a psi also?

[Nucking futs]

Can you say aluminum block? :D
I saw one of those yesterday. The new dart . Real nice. For a low price of $3700.00 They look sweet. Wish I had deep pockets.....lol :cry:

[Cs19]

Futs, $3700 isnt a bad price for a NEW alum block, thats if they are quality and dont have any problems being they are new and all. The guy from Dart said the alum big M wont be available till spring of 06, are they available early?
Good luck with the new project Mike, hopefully you guys keep things practical so you can still hit up the river with everyone and keep doing the things we have been doing.

[Nucking futs]

Futs, $3700 isnt a bad price for a NEW alum block, thats if they are quality and dont have any problems being they are new and all. The guy from Dart said the alum big M wont be available till spring of 06, are they available early?
CS, yes it was a Dart big M. 3700 with cam bearings installed. :D All water ports are threaded. The inside of the block looks stellar. There is a total of 2 at the machine shop getting done up. Can't wait to see the Dyno pulls. These will both be 540" and estimated HP in the 1400 range. I'll know more tomorrow.

[BUSBY]

Did ya'll talk him into a hat and a psi also?
I've been bending his ear ... I'm also going for alcohol ... much more reliable and 1/2 the price per gallon ...
c'mon Mike, you know ya wanna! :devil:

[Taylorman]

1/2 the price of pump gas or race fuel?

[wsuwrhr]

I'm also going for alcohol ... much more reliable and 1/2 the price per gallon ...
Too bad you use twice as much....pretty much a wash as far as cost.
20% more power, better tunability, but it comes with it's own set of problems.
Brian

[Cs19]

but it comes with it's own set of problems
Like trying to use that crap on the river, and being shiot out of luck when you run out. And/or not being able to carry enough alky to get to the sandbar where everyone else is.Sure you can load everyone else's boat up with extra cans of fuel to get you home, but is that practical, or safe?

[Cs19]

CS, yes it was a Dart big M. 3700 with cam bearings installed. :D All water ports are threaded. The inside of the block looks stellar. There is a total of 2 at the machine shop getting done up. Can't wait to see the Dyno pulls. These will both be 540" and estimated HP in the 1400 range. I'll know more tomorrow.
Thats cool futs, keep me posted..Ive been interested in those since they first made mention of them. Hoping to have more info on them after PRI.

[wsuwrhr]

Like trying to use that crap on the river, and being shiot out of luck when you run out. And/or not being able to carry enough alky to get to the sandbar where everyone else is.Sure you can load everyone else's boat up with extra cans of fuel to get you home, but is that practical, or safe?
Yep. that's one.
The fact that alcohol CONSUMES aluminum, you have to drain the alcohol and
fill it with gasoline whenever you aren't using it.
Alcohol (go figure) mixes perfectly with water, if the drum isn't sealed, it will pull moisture from the air and will be ruined. If the drum isn't sitting on a wood pallet, it will also pull moisture from the concrete.
If it catches on fire in the daytime, you are shit out of luck, cause your ass is getting burnt before you even know what is going on. Alcohol burns so clean that the flame has no orange tint, you really can't see it until it's too late.
Unless you are at a racetrack, People from all around will be looking at you funny wondering what the hell your problem is. You will be flailing around "like you just don't care."
AND,
It will "milk" the oil after time, SOONER or later, because it will combine with the moisture in the air during intake, and whatever leaks past the rings gets into the oil. Not really a problem with gasoline, but since water doesn't mix with oil, wallabingwallabam, milked oil.
I learned that tidbit from Billy B, most of my experience with alcohol comes from drinkin it :) :), and from Yamaha Banshees, two-strokes don't have THAT problem since the combustion chamber is separate.(I'm sure you gents already knew that.)
But alcohol IS easier on parts, burns alot cooler, and makes more power.
Brian

[Unchained]

I've heard it said many times how alky makes more power than gas.
The fact is alky only makes more power than gas at higher cylinder pressures than gas can run on. Just swiching fuels will likely gain 0 to 3 %
I've heard it said many times how alky is easier to tune than gas.
Certainly the tuning window is much wider to achieve a 6:1 A/F ratio than for 12:1 A/F ratio.
But is gas really harder to tune or is it the lack of a way to make small precise fuel adjustments with a mechanical system and then have a way to tell exactly what the mixture is afterwards?
From an EFI standpoint it is the same effort to make a .01 ms adjustment as it is a 4 ms adjustment and after you've adjusted it you can immediately see the A/F ratio on a wide band O2 sensor whether you're tuning gas or alky.
So gas is really no more difficult to tune than alcohol. The way you're mixing it in is where the difficulty is.
Brian Busby,
What's your address?
I'm going to send you an EFI book for Christmas. :idea:
You'll be corrupted for life. :D

[BUSBY]

Brian Busby,
What's your address?
I'm going to send you an EFI book for Christmas. :idea:
You'll be corrupted for life. :D
After speaking with you at the World Finals ... you might be correct! It was good meeting up with you.
Busby Motorsports Development :D
4892 Lori Ann Lane
Irvine, CA 92604
I've been thinking turbos ever since ... still have to sit down with cyclone though ... he might like idea of turbos! River/lake reliability with race track results! He could take the Blown Gas Jet class w/ NJBA into a whole new area!
NJBA rulebook for BGJ:
BLOWN GAS JET - BGJ
Blown Gas Jets are intended to be jet boats used specifically for racing, but having highly unusual, expensive or experimental equipment.
General
1. Fuel is restricted to racing gasoline. See General Racing Rules.
Engine
1. Blowers or turbo-chargers are mandatory.
2. Maximum engine displacement is 565 cubic inches.
3. Water injection is allowed on blown gas engines providing a sufficient amount of liquid remains in the tank, which will be used for testing purposes at the end of each run.
Nothing there about efi!

[wsuwrhr]

Hearing of your efforts, I cannot doubt your experience.
More compression equal more HP.
I can tell you that, on a Banshee, we get 20% more (dyno verified) HP than gasoline.
But we aren't really talking Banshees are we? I was just throwing in my worthless .01 on the subject of alcohol.
Brian
If you are passing them out,
I would like an EFI book as well, please, Sir.
I've heard it said many times how alky makes more power than gas.
The fact is alky only makes more power than gas at higher cylinder pressures than gas can run on. Just swiching fuels will likely gain 0 to 3 %
I've heard it said many times how alky is easier to tune than gas.
Certainly the tuning window is much wider to achieve a 6:1 A/F ratio than for 12:1 A/F ratio.
But is gas really harder to tune or is it the lack of a way to make small precise fuel adjustments with a mechanical system and then have a way to tell exactly what the mixture is afterwards?
From an EFI standpoint it is the same effort to make a .01 ms adjustment as it is a 4 ms adjustment and after you've adjusted it you can immediately see the A/F ratio on a wide band O2 sensor whether you're tuning gas or alky.
So gas is really no more difficult to tune than alcohol. The way you're mixing it in is where the difficulty is.
Brian Busby,
What's your address?
I'm going to send you an EFI book for Christmas. :idea:
You'll be corrupted for life. :D

[wsuwrhr]

I have heard it said that a carburetor does nothing more than make a perfectly wrong A/F mixture.
Brian

[Cs19]

Yep. that's one.
The fact that alcohol CONSUMES aluminum, you have to drain the alcohol and
fill it with gasoline whenever you aren't using it.
Alcohol (go figure) mixes perfectly with water, if the drum isn't sealed, it will pull moisture from the air and will be ruined. If the drum isn't sitting on a wood pallet, it will also pull moisture from the concrete.
If it catches on fire in the daytime, you are shit out of luck, cause your ass is getting burnt before you even know what is going on. Alcohol burns so clean that the flame has no orange tint, you really can't see it until it's too late.
Unless you are at a racetrack, People from all around will be looking at you funny wondering what the hell your problem is. You will be flailing around "like you just don't care."
AND,
It will "milk" the oil after time, SOONER or later, because it will combine with the moisture in the air during intake, and whatever leaks past the rings gets into the oil. Not really a problem with gasoline, but since water doesn't mix with oil, wallabingwallabam, milked oil.
I learned that tidbit from Billy B, most of my experience with alcohol comes from drinkin it :) :), and from Yamaha Banshees, two-strokes don't have THAT problem since the combustion chamber is separate.(I'm sure you gents already knew that.)
But alcohol IS easier on parts, burns alot cooler, and makes more power.
Brian
Sounds practical to me..
Pull up to the sandbar and have to run gas through it to flush the alky, then a quick oil change before you head home..No big deal.

[Hipshot]

I hope you guys don't mind a new guy jumping in on your thread here, but having run alcohol motors before let me just say that I love it. I also think that you would be crazy to build a lake boat motor to run on alcohol, too many headaches. Race boat= alky motor, lake boat or dual purpose lake/race boat= gasoline.
Back to the motor for sale in this thread it is a nice looking piece and should make someone a killer engine.

[wsuwrhr]

Sounds practical to me..
Pull up to the sandbar and have to run gas through it to flush the alky, then a quick oil change before you head home..No big deal.
I don't know about the severity of THAT.
Brian

[Cs19]

ok so i blew it out of proportion just a little bit. :rollside:
just curious, if you did run alky on the river, how would you keep the alky off the alum while on the river?
Aernt you supposed to run gas trough it before you shut it down?

[Fiat48]

I run alcohol. It stays in the tank and in the system and I do not worry about it. I just drained the tank and blew out the lines with a little WD40. That alcohol sat in there since 4th of July weekend which was the last time I went out. All my aluminum fittings are in fine shape. I have no corrosion in the system. Ask John Morgan. He was here when I did it.
I simply buy a can of Pro Blend alcohol additive...pour it into the 55 gallon drum and mix it by rolling the drum around. Stuff is about $25.00 a can and it treats a drum.
A lot of people don't believe this and that's fine by me. You might want to try it and see if it works for you. Your mileage may vary.
Otherwise....alcohol tends to attack things and turns into a semi solid sugar type substance. Usually that takes about 48 hours. Simply drain the tank, blow out all your fittings and lines and then spray a little wd40 in everything and blow that through. That's the way it has been done for years.
I guess you could flush things with gas...but don't try to run it on gas.
Also is a good idea to pour a little motor oil into the injector pump if it is going to sit a while.
There are other brands of addtives out there but I do not know if they work or not. And yes alcohol does attract moisture. Keep the drum tightly sealed. I keep my drum in the garage where it doesn't get below about 50 degrees and have never had a contamination problem or had to throw any alcohol away. Even when it sits all winter and I finish the drum in the summer.
As far as oil dilution you shall find that when you burn what you put in there the oil stays like it came out of the bottle. But you have to work at it tuned.
Penzoil racing oil (only the racing..not the other crap) Kendall and Torco oils all mix well with alcohol. Most other oils the alcohol wants to seperate and go to the bottom.

[wsuwrhr]

ok so i blew it out of proportion just a little bit. :rollside:
just curious, if you did run alky on the river, how would you keep the alky off the alum while on the river?
Aernt you supposed to run gas trough it before you shut it down?
Before you store it. Over time...that is the problem
Brian

[wsuwrhr]

Cool deal
Brian
I run alcohol. It stays in the tank and in the system and I do not worry about it. I just drained the tank and blew out the lines with a little WD40. That alcohol sat in there since 4th of July weekend which was the last time I went out. All my aluminum fittings are in fine shape. I have no corrosion in the system. Ask John Morgan. He was here when I did it.
I simply buy a can of Pro Blend alcohol additive...pour it into the 55 gallon drum and mix it by rolling the drum around. Stuff is about $25.00 a can and it treats a drum.
A lot of people don't believe this and that's fine by me. You might want to try it and see if it works for you. Your mileage may vary.
Otherwise....alcohol tends to attack things and turns into a semi solid sugar type substance. Usually that takes about 48 hours. Simply drain the tank, blow out all your fittings and lines and then spray a little wd40 in everything and blow that through. That's the way it has been done for years.
I guess you could flush things with gas...but don't try to run it on gas.
Also is a good idea to pour a little motor oil into the injector pump if it is going to sit a while.
There are other brands of addtives out there but I do not know if they work or not. And yes alcohol does attract moisture. Keep the drum tightly sealed. I keep my drum in the garage where it doesn't get below about 50 degrees and have never had a contamination problem or had to throw any alcohol away. Even when it sits all winter and I finish the drum in the summer.
As far as oil dilution you shall find that when you burn what you put in there the oil stays like it came out of the bottle. But you have to work at it tuned.
Penzoil racing oil (only the racing..not the other crap) Kendall and Torco oils all mix well with alcohol. Most other oils the alcohol wants to seperate and go to the bottom.

[78Eliminator]

A wise man once told me that if you have alcohol contaminated oil which is otherwise clean, you can pour the oil into a clean bucket and put a few sheets of clean cheese cloth over the top and let the alcohol evaporate out. This obviously must be done in a sterile, dust free environment.

[Morg]

I run alcohol. It stays in the tank and in the system and I do not worry about it. I just drained the tank and blew out the lines with a little WD40. That alcohol sat in there since 4th of July weekend which was the last time I went out. All my aluminum fittings are in fine shape. I have no corrosion in the system. Ask John Morgan. He was here when I did it.
I simply buy a can of Pro Blend alcohol additive...pour it into the 55 gallon drum and mix it by rolling the drum around. Stuff is about $25.00 a can and it treats a drum.
A lot of people don't believe this and that's fine by me. You might want to try it and see if it works for you. Your mileage may vary.
Otherwise....alcohol tends to attack things and turns into a semi solid sugar type substance. Usually that takes about 48 hours. Simply drain the tank, blow out all your fittings and lines and then spray a little wd40 in everything and blow that through. That's the way it has been done for years.
I guess you could flush things with gas...but don't try to run it on gas.
Also is a good idea to pour a little motor oil into the injector pump if it is going to sit a while.
There are other brands of addtives out there but I do not know if they work or not. And yes alcohol does attract moisture. Keep the drum tightly sealed. I keep my drum in the garage where it doesn't get below about 50 degrees and have never had a contamination problem or had to throw any alcohol away. Even when it sits all winter and I finish the drum in the summer.
As far as oil dilution you shall find that when you burn what you put in there the oil stays like it came out of the bottle. But you have to work at it tuned.
Penzoil racing oil (only the racing..not the other crap) Kendall and Torco oils all mix well with alcohol. Most other oils the alcohol wants to seperate and go to the bottom.
Who's this "John Morgan" character??

[Cole Man II]

Uh huh huh, I don't know.

[78Eliminator]

Who's this "John Morgan" character??
I dont know, but I heard he likes to sneak out of the bar without paying... :rolleyes:

[Fiat48]

John Morgan is the "Head Porter" ..or should be...at the "427 do drive in". LOL.
The additive I mention was found to work by "shit happens" dept. Normally we drained the alcohol and blew out the system with wd40 right at the track after the last pass. Always a ritual we did. But a race finished very late one night and figured we would clean the system when we got home. Then the tow vehicle blew up on the way back from Famoso. I was using the additive because it was a contingency sponsored deal and was free. I had a bunch of it.
Between the confusion of trying to get the race car to a safe place and having the motorhome towed to somewhere where I could put another engine in it the alcohol drain ritual got forgotten. 2 months later I suddenly remembered and figured the entire fuel system would be ruined. It was perfect. From there I have pushed the envelope clear to 8 months and have never had a problem. So I just forget about it until winter.

[wsuwrhr]

If I choose this route down the line I will take your advise.
The fire deal still worries me though.
Brian
The additive I mention was found to work by "shit happens" dept. Normally we drained the alcohol and blew out the system with wd40 right at the track after the last pass. Always a ritual we did. But a race finished very late one night and figured we would clean the system when we got home. Then the tow vehicle blew up on the way back from Famoso. I was using the additive because it was a contingency sponsored deal and was free. I had a bunch of it.
Between the confusion of trying to get the race car to a safe place and having the motorhome towed to somewhere where I could put another engine in it the alcohol drain ritual got forgotten. 2 months later I suddenly remembered and figured the entire fuel system would be ruined. It was perfect. From there I have pushed the envelope clear to 8 months and have never had a problem. So I just forget about it until winter.

[Fiat48]

The flame is near invisable..only hint you got is the heat. Won't make you feel any better but alky is harder to ignite. Nothing we can do about that.
I always thought about blower explosion with the motor in front of me. Motor behind me in the boat makes me feel better.
Maybe add 20% nitro and....nevermind. :220v:

[INEEDAV]

Who's this "John Morgan" character??
Pretty sure I saw a picture of him hanging on the wall in the post office with the rest of the shady charecters the FBI is looking for.

[Cs19]

It must be weird to be on fire and not see any flames. :mad:
Everytime I have my fuel system apart I always think about what happened to the guy in v-drives that had his boat catch on fire .. I think it was static electricity that caused the fire?
Good info Fiat,Thanks.
Are there any drawbacks to running alky through carbs rather than injection?

[Fiat48]

A fuel pump (or pumps) that would put out the volume needed and for use with alcohol. Carbs made for alcohol or modifed by someone knowledgable. Holley used to make (maybe still do) some 850 alcohol carbs and I ran them on a roadster way back when. Today they are on a 32 Bantam drag car with a 468 ci, 13.5 to 1 compression deal and a tunnel ram. He runs low 8's and has been doing that for the past 7 years. He runs 2 holley blue 110's with no regulators and set up with a bypass. #8 fuel lines everywhere. Uses the lube and drains it in the winter. He gets about 2 seasons out of the fuel pumps.
Unblown you can do it. Would really question a carbs ability on alcohol for a blown motor. Wouldn't want to try it.