China will kick our *ss?

[bigq]

The overwhelming assessment by Asian officials, diplomats and analysts is that the U.S. military simply cannot defeat China. It has been an assessment relayed to U.S. government officials over the past few months by countries such as Australia, Japan and South Korea. This comes as President Bush wraps up a visit to Asia, in which he sought to strengthen U.S. ties with key allies in the region.
Most Asian officials have expressed their views privately. Tokyo Governor Shintaro Ishihara has gone public, warning that the United States would lose any war with China.
"In any case, if tension between the United States and China heightens, if each side pulls the trigger, though it may not be stretched to nuclear weapons, and the wider hostilities expand, I believe America cannot win as it has a civic society that must adhere to the value of respecting lives," Mr. Ishihara said in an address to the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies.
Mr. Ishihara said U.S. ground forces, with the exception of the Marines, are "extremely incompetent" and would be unable to stem a Chinese conventional attack. Indeed, he asserted that China would not hesitate to use nuclear weapons against Asian and American cities—even at the risk of a massive U.S. retaliation.
The governor said the U.S. military could not counter a wave of millions of Chinese soldiers prepared to die in any onslaught against U.S. forces. After 2,000 casualties, he said, the U.S. military would be forced to withdraw.
"Therefore, we need to consider other means to counter China," he said. "The step we should be taking against China, I believe, is economic containment."
Officials acknowledge that Mr. Ishihara's views reflect the widespread skepticism of U.S. military capabilities in such countries as Australia, India, Japan, Singapore and South Korea. They said the U.S.-led war in Iraq has pointed to the American weakness in low-tech warfare.
"When we can't even control parts of Anbar, they get the message loud and clear," an official said, referring to the flashpoint province in western Iraq.
As a result, Asian allies of the United States are quietly preparing to bolster their militaries independent of Washington. So far, the Bush administration has been strongly opposed to an indigenous Japanese defense capability, fearing it would lead to the expulsion of the U.S. military presence from that country.
On Nov. 16, Mr. Bush met with Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi. The two leaders discussed the realignment of the U.S. military presence in Japan and Tokyo's troop deployment in Iraq.
During his visit to Washington in early November, Mr. Ishihara met senior U.S. defense officials. They included talks with U.S. Defense Deputy Undersecretary for Asian and Pacific Affairs Richard Lawless to discuss the realignment of the U.S. military presence in Japan.
For his part, Mr. Ishihara does not see China as evolving into a stable democracy with free elections.
"I believe such predictions are totally wrong," Mr. Ishihara said.

[Blown 472]

Well since china holds alot of our debt I don't think econmic containment would work.

[Red Horse]

If the war in Iraq was fought the way it needs to be, instead of the kinder, gentler way it is then we would prolly be coming home for Christmas. The American public is too nice when it comes to these type of things. :crossx:
China has industry and infastructure. That will be the first to go. I am confident we would win. Loss of life, yes. Lose the war, no.

[Forkin' Crazy]

Red Horse, you got it. There is no such thing as a kind, gentle war, unless you have the freaking media looking over your shoulder.
If there is any incompitance in our military, that is the under lying reason. The media will run anything to discredit our military that it can. :mad:

[bigq]

Being nice is going to be the end. I have to believe that if we were attacked on our on shores the public might get the idea that it would be the end of the USA and being nice would not be an option anymore. :crossx:

[Seadog]

This has been the story forever. Once it was the USSR, and with their demise, China. The fact is, if we were to go to war with China, it would be a major blow to both countries. It would likely play out in a form similar to WWII against Japan. We would eventually win, but the first one to launch nukes would unleash a slaughter unheard of in history. Our major concern would be having time to build our missing industries. China would quickly shut down our supplies of essential materials like oil and steel, plus any other vital metals that we get the bulk overseas.
People should realize that we have numerous threats that are as worrisom as China and which we have less control over. We are overdue for a pandemic influenza that will probably not come from the sources they expect. Religeous intolerance is playing out throughout the world and it is not something you can really get a handle on. The only way to stop it is to assasinate the religeous leaders that act as warlords. This is counter to the rules of nations and allows these renegade leaders to operate with impunity.

[bigkatboat]

US corporations are moving into China and building products to sell back here. Our own companies are 'going for the cheap labor' and killing their own homeland. When the USA manufactures NOTHING, grows NOTHING, produces NOTHING but service business, then China will step in and REPOSESS this country. They want to buy Long Beach California ports and California oil companies, next YOUR TOWN! Our big shot CEO's are always looking at 'this quarter' and not to the future, that's how we got here in the first place. Just as we outspent the USSR in the past 'cold war', we will go down unless we can straighten out our economy, trade laws, and "global economy fixation". The global economy just looks to us for a hand out or a forgivness of their debts, they never worry if we can afford it!

[Boy Named Sue]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b350/BoyxNamedxSue/thcowpie.gif
Pluck china. We'll stack em like we did in Korea.

[wsuwrhr]

US corporations are moving into China and building products to sell back here. Our own companies are 'going for the cheap labor' and killing their own homeland. When the USA manufactures NOTHING, grows NOTHING, produces NOTHING but service business,
Keep buyin shit made in China.
Turn the shit over and look at the box, see where it is made before you buy it.
Brian

[Forkin' Crazy]

Keep buyin shit made in China.
Turn the shit over and look at the box, see where it is made before you buy it.
Brian
It's a challenge now days to find something that is not.... :mad:
OOPS not that keyboard you're using!!! :eek:

[HOSS]

I see it differently. We can`t fight jack. We do better fighting each other in the streets at home. We just can`t learn.
There ain`t no rules in fighting. Nuke the phucs. I hear sticking your head in the toilet during fallout prevents gout in the next generation.

[Steve 1]

“Mr. Ishihara said U.S. ground forces, with the exception of the Marines, are "extremely incompetent" and would be unable to stem a Chinese conventional attack. Indeed, he asserted that China would not hesitate to use nuclear weapons against Asian and American cities—even at the risk of a massive U.S. retaliation.”
Incompetent??? Coming from the Japanese read a history book LMAO Next!!!!
“The governor said the U.S. military could not counter a wave of millions of Chinese soldiers prepared to die in any onslaught against U.S. forces. After 2,000 casualties, he said, the U.S. military would be forced to withdraw”
It’s obvious this idiot does not consider tactual battlefield Nuclear weapons.
And to continue if he meant they would attack us here , JUST how would they get across the pacific swim? Plus we are all ARMED much more of us than that shitbox chi com army!!!!!!!! That is with the exception of some Queers in San Francisco (They can have that place) BTW these same commies were quite horrified when the American military made the equipment they sold the Iraqis look like so much third world Junk!!

[Seadog]

Itis generally conceeded that if a person is too idiotic to make a living, they either become a liberal politician, or they teach liberal arts/media courses to kids.

[HighRoller]

The good thing about San Fran is its location: the first place to be run over by the Chinese army if they come ashore. China has an advantage right now because while we're getting fat and happy and only worried about our own lives, they are totally focused on building a massive military and the industry to support it. Our advantage is that we've always risen to whatever level we had to in order to defend our freedom. Someone said you cannot defeat freedom with bombs or bullets. So far, they've been right.

[Mandelon]

Isn't Taiwan going to be the issue? China's not going to invade here, nor we there. But when they try to take over Taiwan, what are we going to do about it????

[Blown 472]

The good thing about San Fran is its location: the first place to be run over by the Chinese army if they come ashore. China has an advantage right now because while we're getting fat and happy and only worried about our own lives, they are totally focused on building a massive military and the industry to support it. Our advantage is that we've always risen to whatever level we had to in order to defend our freedom. Someone said you cannot defeat freedom with bombs or bullets. So far, they've been right.
That is until they call on the debt we owe them. They have had a plan for years to crush us via our economy.

[mickeyfinn]

That is until they call on the debt we owe them. They have had a plan for years to crush us via our economy.
I've heard this before but I have never understood what happens when we can't pay. Sure the rest of the world hesitates to loan us anything, maybe this will force us to start our economy back the way it should be with some manufacturing involved. It's not like they can come and take our real estate home with them. They can't take it period unless we allow them too. We may be deeply in debt and they may well be approaching the point of being the worlds largest manufacturer of anything, but we are still the worlds largest consumers. Without us their manufacturing isn't worth much. Not saying it won't be very painful, just saying that it might lead us where we need to be headed anyway.

[wsuwrhr]

It's a challenge now days to find something that is not.... :mad:
OOPS not that keyboard you're using!!! :eek:
Yep,
I never said I was innocent, unfortunately there are cases where you CAN'T find an alternative.
Awhile back I found some motorcycle tiedowns at Home Depot that were made in the USA, I about fell over. I posted about it, and I got alot of responses.
Trust me, you find me a USA made keyboard and when this peice of shit breaks, you are damn skippy I'll buy the USA made one.
Good post though, unfortunately there is alot of truth to what you said.
Brian

[Seadog]

I have posted this scenario before, but here goes again. The Chinese can overtake Taiwan with little or no resistance from us. They have built a navy capable of denying us access to Taiwan. Their subs are able to take us on in the area. Being hybrid diesels, they are quieter and can stay submerged for long periods. They have the advantage in that they can lie in wait for us to come by and we would never know it. They also have the numbers to give us a big disadvantage. Surface ships are vulnerable to their sea skimming missles which are modeled after the French Exocet missles that proved deadly to British ships at the Falklands.
If their goal is dominance, they can easily take Japan, Korea and the Philipines. They are in conflict now with Japan on several issues, including ownership of an oil rich area. And Korea would be a natural to deny us a base and to provide their North Korean allies a bone. It is after that, it gets dicey. We have a chance to stop them before they take Australia, but if India joins them (likely), it could become nasty real quick.
The real problem is that if China takes Taiwwan, we will probably go to war and that would stop all trade. China would have the most to lose, so no matter how much they desire 'reunification', it would be a disaster.
I have concerns about two areas. First, they are flirting with ecological chaos. The way things are going, it is likely that they will have a major disaster that could snowball into a situation that they can only resolve with conquest. The second case that I can forsee, is that North Korea could draw them into a conflict that they do not want.

[Mandelon]

I don't see us going to war over Taiwan. We'd rattle our sabers maybe, throw up a blockade or two but with the way Iraq has gone I don't see congress committing to a war with China over some island where they make a lot of shirts and flip flops. :220v:
They won't do anything til the democrats are back in the white house. When that happens I say watch out. :skull:

[Blown 472]

I don't see us going to war over Taiwan. We'd rattle our sabers maybe, throw up a blockade or two but with the way Iraq has gone I don't see congress committing to a war with China over some island where they make a lot of shirts and flip flops. :220v:
They won't do anything til the democrats are back in the white house. When that happens I say watch out. :skull:
Why is that? with the current "war" prez we have??

[Seadog]

If Billary gets elected, they may be more inclined to chance it. They have no respect for the Clintons. Bush has nothing to do with any decisions they make. If anything, they would perceive the current situation ideal. Our media and liberals are attacking our global strategy and our troops are engaged in Iraq and Afganistan.
What is not ideal is that they still do not have confidence that their forces are up to the task. They have the manpower, but they still have a technological gap that bothers them. Patience is a big thing for them. We want things done now. They plan for generations to come. Taiwan is going nowhere and the more they can weaken the bonds between Taiwan and the U.S., the better.
At the same time, they have seen how our military has become the greatest force in the world. It is no coincidence that after Desert Storm, the chinese began to modernize their fighting forces along our model. They are determined to develop a blue water navy and are going with a submarine force to be feared. They are recruiting their brightest and best for the submarines and making it well worth their commitment. They are developing a system of command and control that takes the best of all nations. And they are concentrating on those boats that show the best value for the investment. And they are being supported by the best sub builders in the USSR who are desperate for ways to make a living.

[Steve 1]

Why is that? with the current "war" prez we have??
War Prez???????? Knucklehead it’s called defending this country. But you must have some other VERY twisted agenda and do not care about deaths American or others, the filthy liberals/socialists only care about control nothing else matters.