Motor back together but have a problem

[Ultra21]

I rebuilt by BBC after losing oil pressure last month and put it in this past Sunday. I'm running hydraulic lifters and ran it at about 1800 - 2000 rpm for 30 minutes to break in the cam and everything sounds great! I finished puting everything together and took it out tonight to Pudingstone for a test drive.
Oil pressure was around 40 at idle and 65-70 at rpm. Ran for about an hour with water temp around 130 deg. Everything great until I took it up to 4000 rpm and ran for about 10 seconds and oil press went to 0.
I do have the fuel pump shut off but the pump kept running so it must not have gone to 0 like the gauge read. Looked in the valve cover with it running and there's oil splashing so I thought it might be the gauge or sender. Trailered it and at home I pulled the sender and put a mechanical gauge on it. 10 psi at idle and 25 at rpm (?) What would make it drop so low? engine sounds great and strong.
New Milidon high volume oil pump, new cam, lifters, valve springs, bearings, rings. Any info on what could cause this? It's a Gen V 454 and does have dual external oil filters.

[GofastRacer]

Sounds to me like the pickup fell off, when you're just idling the pump may be partially submerged in oil that's why you're gettin low pressure??..May be wrong though!.. :confused:

[Ultra21]

Sounds to me like the pickup fell off, when you're just idling the pump may be partially submerged in oil that's why you're gettin low pressure??..May be wrong though!.. The pickup has a welded bracket that mounts to one of the main bolts and is pressed in pretty tight. It's not welded in but I figured with the tight fit and bracket it should be fine. I'm probably going to have to pull the engine again and will check it. Does anyone know if the bypass valves could have something to do with it?
Thanks!

[Hallett19]

dude, you could have wiped your bearings .... I had a similar problem with lifters, but I dont think lifters would cause an oil pressure drop that bad, lifters would start chattering after the oil pan was sucked dry from my high volume oil pump/low volume oil pan. It was a mess, engine would hit 4400 rpm, stay for a second then drop 1500 rpms, awefull chatter, then back to 4400 rpms again... then, eventually, the oil press. would get lower and lower, so when I took the motor apart, the bearings were garbage.

[Ultra21]

high volume oil pump/low volume oil pan I'm hoping that's not the problem but my pan is stock and was cut and welded about 1" shorter to fit in the boat by the builder. It holds about 6.5 qts with 2 filters. Wouldn't take much to suck it dry.

[Hotcrusader76]

Ultra21:
I rebuilt by BBC after losing oil pressure last month and put it in this past Sunday. I'm running hydraulic lifters and ran it at about 1800 - 2000 rpm for 30 minutes to break in the cam and everything sounds great! I finished puting everything together and took it out tonight to Pudingstone for a test drive.
Oil pressure was around 40 at idle and 65-70 at rpm. Ran for about an hour with water temp around 130 deg. Everything great until I took it up to 4000 rpm and ran for about 10 seconds and oil press went to 0.
I do have the fuel pump shut off but the pump kept running so it must not have gone to 0 like the gauge read. Looked in the valve cover with it running and there's oil splashing so I thought it might be the gauge or sender. Trailered it and at home I pulled the sender and put a mechanical gauge on it. 10 psi at idle and 25 at rpm (?) What would make it drop so low? engine sounds great and strong.
New Milidon high volume oil pump, new cam, lifters, valve springs, bearings, rings. Any info on what could cause this? It's a Gen V 454 and does have dual external oil filters. What type of oil are you using?
I ask because if it's the wrong viscosity then after the oil heats up it tends to cause a pressure drop. Just my 0.02
[ July 16, 2003, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: Hotcrusader76 ]

[Moneypitt]

Hate to say this, but the milodon HV pumps leave alot to be desired. I installed a new one in a BBC and wiped out the mains in less than 5 minutes. After tear down, I looked at the pump. The clearance between the gears and the cover are suppose to be .002-.0025, and the cover should be square to the pump body. my new milodon pump was .007 at one end and .003 at the other end. really loose, and out of square. As for your problem, take an oil filter apart, look at what is trapped in the folds, see if its magnetic,(steel/cast iron), copper bearing material in the filter will give you a hint of what happened, but open up the oil pump for sure. If it has an arc on the cover, its not square to the pump. If it has a circle in the cover, your distributor/oil drive shaft, may have been bottoming out the gear. Be sure the dist. bottoms on the manifold, (without a gasket), to ensure that the pump isn't jammed against the cover when the gasket is added and tightened down..Sorry to hear about your misfortune.......Moneypitt

[HBjet]

Could he just have not enough oil in the pan? I remember Cyclones old motor had a problem where the PSI would just drop to zero of you where on the gas for any period of time (4-5 seconds) It turned out his dip stick wasn't the correct one for the pan and he just had too little oil in the motor.
I would pull the filter and cut it up to see what you find. If everything looks good, drain the oil and see how much comes out.
I run a Melling HV oil pump and at idle I'm around 65psi, 90psi when I'm on the gas. Over the winter we are going to make a change to bring it down to about 80psi when on the throttle and install an oil temp gauge.
Good Luck and keep us posted
HBjet

[TX Daytona]

I'd be looking for an oil pan, but also check the shaft between the distributor and oil pump as well. Use a good after market shaft not one of the factory jobs with the plastic sleeve on it.

[Ultra21]

What type of oil are you using? I'm using Valvoline 10W 40 as recommended by the shop that did the crank.
Thanks for the responses! Looks like I'll be busy this weekend after I cancel my reservations in Laughlin:confused:
Anyone know where I can get a larger oil pan that is short enough to fit in a jet boat? Or will it be easier to modify mine? I'm not sure about the baffling so would probably want to buy one.

[OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET]

Ultra21:
What type of oil are you using? I'm using Valvoline 10W 40 as recommended by the shop that did the crank.
Thanks for the responses! Looks like I'll be busy this weekend after I cancel my reservations in Laughlin:confused:
Anyone know where I can get a larger oil pan that is short enough to fit in a jet boat? Or will it be easier to modify mine? I'm not sure about the baffling so would probably want to buy one. Rex Marine www.rexmar.com (http://www.rexmar.com) better get ready to shell out some money.....Best investment you can make if it's not too late.
Omega

[Racing Ray]

Hamburger Oil pans are back again. I think Lopers sells the full sump model with windage and scraper for around $200.00. My son just put one on his jet. They are here in AZ but they ship anywhere. (480) 833-6093.

[Hallett19]

This might be overkill for your setup but very very efficient for your problem with not being able to fit that pan. Look into running a dry sump setup. I'm not too familiar with them, but basically you have an external pump that keeps the oil pump fed from a tank mounted remotley. This is what airplanes use to keep the motor oiled weather you are upside down up side up as well as alot of race cars, even some street cars run this setup (BMW Z8). I think you can get the oil pan to be an inch or so lower than the block and the tank keeps that pan full at all times.

[gnarley]

How much does the pan hold? With the before & after pressure differences it seems as though something has happened. Do you run an oil cooler? Hallett19 mentioned a dry sump, though they are shitz they are extremely expensive. I hate to say it, but you better check your bearings & take a real good & hard look at your pump then measure your sump height from the bottom of the pan then make sure the dipstick is correct for the amount of oil the pan is rated at.

[Ultra21]

I'm going to drain the oil and run it through a paint strainer tonight to assess the damage. Then, pull the motor and pan and inspect the bearings (will probably have to replace them) and while I'm there take a good look at the pump, dip stick level and anything else I can think of. I put 6.5 quarts in the pan which includes the 2 external filters. The pan is stock but has been cut 1" to fit in the bilge. From there I'll be looking at different oil pans and maybe modifying my own (depends how motivated I am). Thanks for the responses and if there's anything I'm missing or there's any more suggestions, please keep em coming.
Thanks!

[GofastRacer]

Just noticed, you say the pan was cut an inch. Did you measure the depth of the pan to the pickup?, if it's too close to the bottom, it will suck the pan to the pickup and you will lose oil pressure!. Just a thought!.. :rolleyes:

[Hallett19]

6.5 quarts is a half quart less than stock in my BBF. What you need to do is run a rear pickup with a windage tray and a wider pan, since you cant go deep.... that sounds gross .... Have the pan baffled too as so to keep the oil in the back of the pan. If you can build the pan outwards, try to make it hold at least 8-10 quarts, even if you have to run an oil cooler. I run a 10 qt pan with a dual filter setup and the system holds almost 13qts. I am looking forward to an oil cooler and that should help it hold close to 14qts. Why cant you run a bigger pan, what kind of boat are you running ? show some pics ...
[ July 17, 2003, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: Hallett19 ]

[Blown 472]

The mildon pan is no lower than the tangent point of the flywheel.

[Ultra21]

Alright. . . The image center has changed since I last posted a picture and it didn't improve. I'll get a pic up as soon as I can figure it out.

[Ultra21]

Here's the motor mounted in a 21' Ultra jet boat. It's hard to see but there's really not much clearance at the bottom. The oil pan and pickup were both shortened 1" and the pickup is about 1/2" above the pan.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/503/89camp_020.jpg

[schiada96]

Did this setup work before the rebuild?

[Ultra21]

Did this setup work before the rebuild? Before the rebuild I had a stock oil pump.

[GofastRacer]

Ultra21
[QB]Before the rebuild I had a stock oil pump. [/QB
Should have stuck with it!.. :)

[Hallett19]

GofastRacer:
Should have stuck with it!.. :) Dually noted and agreed.

[Ultra21]

Actually, the reason for the rebuild was worn rod bearings due to oil starvation. You'd think I would have put 2 and 2 together?? I just finished draining the oil through a paint strainer and it came out exceptionally clean. I expected a little metalflake or something. Pulling the motor tomorrow.

[GofastRacer]

We'll be here waitin for updates!.. :D

[dossangers]

Ultra21:
Actually, the reason for the rebuild was worn rod bearings due to oil starvation. You'd think I would have put 2 and 2 together?? I just finished draining the oil through a paint strainer and it came out exceptionally clean. I expected a little metalflake or something. Pulling the motor tomorrow. I would change the oil 1 more time put in 1 more quart and check it still no press. yank it i think it sucked the pan dry and i would run 40wt valvoline racing only!!!

[dyam]

Are you running a windage tray? With the bottom of the pan 1" closer, the crank could be moving the oil around causing you to suck air.
Happened on my 502 when the windage tray wasn't installed properly.
Just a thought.

[Hallett19]

I just think 6.5 quarts is way too little capacity for a boat, especailly a jet. Running at the RPM's that we do, the oiling system is very important and take it from a guy that popped a motor due to lack of oil, it will save you costly repairs.

[Ultra21]

Boy do I feel STUPID!! I get the dumbshit award for the year. When I pulled the pan and a couple of caps, the bearings didn't look too bad but a little wiped. I then looked at the oil pump and saw one bolt missing and the rest were loose. I aparently forgot to lock tite & torque them down after pre-lubing the pump! I put the pan back on and added 3 qts of oil and spun the drill and got 0 psi. Then pulled the pan and torqued the pump bolts. . . 50 psi for about 2 seconds before the pan pulled dry. I'm replacing the rod bearings and getting a 10 qt pan this morning, and might take it to Smelsomore Sunday.
Thanks for all the responses,
torqueless (changing my screen name cry )

[lovemyultra]

Glad to hear it worked out as well as it did