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View Full Version : Expedition or Sequoia for towing



MNLavey
09-10-2001, 08:51 AM
Ok, this is a little off-topic, but I thought what better place to get peoples opinion on tow vehicles!!!
So, does anyone have an Expedition or Sequoia??? Any gotcha's or thoughts on these for a tow vehicle???
Thanks!
Mike

rivercrazy
09-10-2001, 09:58 AM
I don't know what you towing but I have a Toyota Tundra that has essentially the same motor as the Seq. I tow my 4,000 boat/trailer reguarly. It has more than enough power. The motor is a bit smaller than the domestics so low rpm torque is a bit less. However, the midrange performance is outstanding. I can outpull the 5.3 and 5.4 liter domestic trucks pulling similar weights over grades. All this and my gas milage is about 18 at 80mph and about 12 pulling the boat.
If you going to pull really heavy loads (6-8,000 pounds) get a Ford or Chevy. The bigger motor will help

gstark
09-10-2001, 11:44 AM
I've got a 2001 Expedition and it pulls a 5000 lb load mighty fine and gets 11-12 mpg in 110F temp with max A/C and pulling grades (4-6%).
No complaints - love the vehicle. Make sure you get the 5.4L. I've got 17" rims with a 3.55 posi.

squirts
09-10-2001, 04:55 PM
Ive pulled my 18 jet with a 2000 Ford , Chevy, Dodge , and we bought the TUNDRA. It is flawless and rides better than some cars Ive been in. Buy the Sequoia you wont be disappointed.

rivercrazy
09-11-2001, 07:56 AM
Agree with squirts 100%

gstark
09-17-2001, 07:00 PM
Two words.
Buy American.
(no matter how much the content it. Still American companies.)

MNLavey
09-18-2001, 05:54 AM
GStark,
Why??? From my drives, the Sequoia is by far the best vehicle... At least for towing 6200#'s or less... And definitely for driving around without a load...

rivercrazy
09-18-2001, 07:47 AM
Its kind of sad but the big three American truck makers do not manufacture them in the US. They are 100% built in either Mexico or Canada. The Tundra is build and assembled in the good ole USA.....

SUPERCREWJOHN
09-18-2001, 08:08 AM
MN LAVEY-
Dont let the specs on those JAP trucks fool you. I current have a F-150 SUPERCREW 4X4 lariat with a 5.4 & 3.73 gears, and I can tow 5000 lbs loads up the 15 going over 60 with little strain on the motor. Besides I do not belive that the Japanese Trucks have a heavy duty transmission cooler to protect the trans which is the week spot on any tow vehicle.
If you must have an SUV then I would spend the extra $$ and get a Excursion with a Diesel..or a f-250 crewcab with a diesel or v-10..

rivercrazy
09-18-2001, 09:38 AM
Supercrew you should do your research before talking about the Toyota line of trucks.
My Tundra came stock with a very sizable trans cooler from the factory. It also will easily pull my 4000 pound plus rig (plus shell and full load of various necessities i.e. Dogs, People, beverages, etc) at well over 60 both on the Cajon grade, Baker grade, or backside of the 40 out of Needles at speeds of 60 or greater. I usually pull all three at between 60-65 and 3,100 to 3,200 rpm. No straining whatsoever (less than 1/3rd throttle in 3rd gear). My water temp gauge never moves and the tranny oil temp never exceeds 200 degrees. No significant change in oil pressure either.
The domestic trucks I've owned couldn't touch the tow performance of this truck (Chevy 350 and Ford 5.4) with the boat/trailer I have. They also experienced significant rises in water temp and a decline in oil pressure up these grades. Both had factory towing packages that included trans coolers, heavy duty radiators and high rear end axle ratios (3.73 to 4.10).
I do agree that if your pulling 6,500 pounds and up, go with the 3/4 ton domestic rigs preferably with Diesel powerplants. The foreign trucks can touch the towing capacities of these rigs.

SUPERCREWJOHN
09-18-2001, 10:41 AM
rivercrazy - I stand corrected on the trans cooler

gstark
09-18-2001, 11:49 AM
I guess I'm just partial to American companies, particularily at this point in time. Toyota is still a Japanese company, regardless of how good their product is or isn't.
When I was in Nagoya, I had the opportunity to walk the Mitsubishi plant where they make a great deal of aerospace equipment and structure. As I was surveying the factory, one thought continued thru my mind. This factory produced Zeros during WWII. I guess it is just a little harder for me to forgive and forget stuff like this.

racingrascal
09-18-2001, 10:01 PM
I would buy a new Suburban or Yukon XL if I was in the market. They have the highest pulling ability of all SUV's on the market even fords V-10. They ride great with coil over rear sus. The Toyota comes with a higher standard pulling then the Chevy/GMC/Ford because they come with 390 rearend gears standard. But if you buy a ford or Chevy and go with 3:73's they will out tow them buy a land slide. I use to sell GMC's and read all the specs. Toyota does offer a very nice package for the everyday drive. Just depends on how much you want to tow and how fast you want to do it. Toyota is great if your not in a hurry, Ford in great but the some of there tech is little behind, and GMC is great as well with the tow/haul botton on the shifter, makes it great for towing. Small load go with the Toyota, heavy load go with the Ford. Just my .01 for what's worth. You will never get a straight answer out of anybody because Chevy fans are Chevy fans and Ford fans are Ford fans, same with Toyota. Don't buy one or the other because of a interest rate or special at the time or because one guy is a better bser, buy it because it fits your needs and you like the way it looks and drives. Keep in mind they are both nice products. Just do your homework and you will be very happy, don't let somebody help you make up your mind, make it on what you like and need.
Andy

MNLavey
09-28-2001, 05:16 AM
Well, we ordered a Sequoia... I'll let you know how it tows when I get it!!!

rivercrazy
09-28-2001, 08:00 AM
I'm sure you will be more than satisfied with the overall refined engineering and the towing performance. This engine/trans/rear axle ratio kicks butt.

GOT WATER ??
10-06-2001, 05:35 PM
How about this:
Get a single axle Peterbuilt with a 600hp Cat, fuller 18 speed and 3.25 rear end. top speed will only be about 85 mph but you could pull a 5th wheel and your boat uphill at 85 mph. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/tongue.gif

Timer
10-14-2001, 10:16 AM
I've got the new Nissan Pathfinder and tow a 3800# boat/trailer. It gets 16 mpg towing on the hwy @ 70, 17 without towing doing 80, and 17 around town. The tongue wt. is about 320# and does drop the rear end down a little too much, but for an all-around SUV it's great.

SUPERCREWJOHN
10-15-2001, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by GOT WATER ??:
How about this:
Get a single axle Peterbuilt with a 600hp Cat, fuller 18 speed and 3.25 rear end. top speed will only be about 85 mph but you could pull a 5th wheel and your boat uphill at 85 mph. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/tongue.gif
I'll be you could get this setup in a F-600 or something similar to a modified GMC Top-Kick Chassis. I've seen some of the Horse Racing folks at Santa Anita use this setup & it looks slick. Looks like a giant crew cab truck http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

moomba
10-15-2001, 08:51 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Timer:
It gets 16 mpg towing on the hwy @ 70
Timer
Are you towing in overdrive at 70? What are your RPM's

Timer
10-17-2001, 10:46 AM
Moomba, I am in OD when towing unless I'm climbing a hill or going down one. In OD I think I'm doing about 2600 rpm, but not sure.
What I liked about it is that it has the new hi-tech engine compared to the old one. It has 240 hp (more than any other mid-size at the time I bought it), 265 ft-# of torque @ 3200 rpm and a 5000# towing capacity.
The downside is the rear-end sag with my tongue wt., and it tends to wander a little bit at highway speeds (when not towing).

superdave013
10-17-2001, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by racingrascal:
I would buy a new Suburban or Yukon XL if I was in the market. They have the highest pulling ability of all SUV's on the market even fords V-10. They ride great with coil over rear sus. The Toyota comes with a higher standard pulling then the Chevy/GMC/Ford because they come with 390 rearend gears standard. But if you buy a ford or Chevy and go with 3:73's they will out tow them buy a land slide. I use to sell GMC's and read all the specs. Toyota does offer a very nice package for the everyday drive. Just depends on how much you want to tow and how fast you want to do it. Toyota is great if your not in a hurry, Ford in great but the some of there tech is little behind, and GMC is great as well with the tow/haul botton on the shifter, makes it great for towing. Small load go with the Toyota, heavy load go with the Ford. Just my .01 for what's worth. You will never get a straight answer out of anybody because Chevy fans are Chevy fans and Ford fans are Ford fans, same with Toyota. Don't buy one or the other because of a interest rate or special at the time or because one guy is a better bser, buy it because it fits your needs and you like the way it looks and drives. Keep in mind they are both nice products. Just do your homework and you will be very happy, don't let somebody help you make up your mind, make it on what you like and need.
Andy
I'm with you racingrascal. I just got a new Burban with the 8100 engine. Have not towed yet but it sure seems to have balls! Seems to have lots more than my old truck with the 454 and 4.10 rear. We'll see next summer.

squirts
10-31-2001, 08:38 PM
Just a little update last weekend I bought a 22' Toybox from Carson trailers and towed it out to the river with the Tundra loaded with 2 atcs fuel and everything my wife could load in it.( I started to have flashbacks of the movie with Lucy when she decided to collect rocks and store them in the trailer) needless to say it got a workout but not once did the temp gauge rise and I put it in 2nd one time other than that I could not be happier.

Catatonic
11-01-2001, 06:50 AM
Timer - Be careful if you're towing in overdrive. I just had a bearing go out in my Yukon and luckily I did not have to sacrifice the entire tranny to the gods. I was told by the dealer that you should deal with the decrease in mpg and tow in 3rd gear all the time. Most SUV's and pickups are equipped with light duty transmissions and they are not sufficient enough to tow in OD.

Chet 17
11-02-2001, 04:18 PM
Big Picture, Money spent on american products go to american companys, money on foreign products like Toyota go to Japan no matter where there built, my 02.
Hey Catatonic, did you unload your 22' sport cat?, if so when and what are you upgrading too, the reason I ask is I took a look at it awhile back.
Late, Chet

rivercrazy
11-02-2001, 04:24 PM
Actually, because the Tundra is made in the U.S it employs workers in the U.S and supports many other related industries.
All the other domestics are made in either Canada or Mexico. Minimal U.S. workforce involvement here...
I do agree that some of the profit Toyota makes get repatriated to Japan though. Not all of it though.
It all boils down to who you think makes a higher quality product.

gcane
11-03-2001, 04:14 PM
The only thing worth towing with is either a dodge cummins or a ford powerstroke. I tow with a powerstroke that has beem chipped piped propaned and shift kitted tows 10000lbs at 80 with no problem

gcane
11-03-2001, 04:54 PM
NO I have to contradict myself about 20yrs ago my dad had alltime 4 wheel drive blazer that we used to tow with. For a gasser it worked pretty good. Ive used Toyotas v-6 junk no power crappy fuel mileage couldn't get up my flat driveway with a trailer. Most small block gassers are good for 2000lbs but don't climb the hills because there isn't enough torque to hold the r's. Don't get me wrong about Toyotas, they are the most reliable cars made. Ive been through 4 camrys 3 trucks a corolla wagon never a problem but one ac compressor. Then I towed my Malibu Flightcraft with my freinds f-250 5 speed idi diesel. After that I have never looked back. Bought a 92 F-250hd 5-speed idi and put a gale banks turbo kit on it. Tow with truck full of fuel 42 gallons 4 people 38 gallons in boat up and down hills all at the same speed.

bpeterson
11-06-2001, 01:04 PM
My Tundra came stock with a very sizable trans cooler from the factory. It also will easily pull my 4000 pound plus rig (plus shell and full load of various necessities i.e. Dogs, People, beverages, etc) at well over 60 both on the Cajon grade, Baker grade, or backside of the 40 out of Needles at speeds of 60 or greater. I usually pull all three at between 60-65 and 3,100 to 3,200 rpm.[/B]
At 60mph in 3rd gear reving 3,100rpm, your truck must have 4.54 rear end gears. This is based on a tire size of 245-70R16. Taller tires would make the rear end gear ratio even higher. The standard gears for the 2002 models with the 4.7L is 3.92. Something is wrong with the numbers you're reporting.
For comparison, the Ford supercrew is 250 lbs heavier than the Toyota tundra access cab. However, the Ford 5.4L engine produces 15 more hp at 300 fewer revs and 35 ft-lbs at 900 rpm less than the Toyota 4.7L. Torque is what makes better tow vehicles, giving the Ford a slight edge.

rivercrazy
11-08-2001, 01:53 PM
Actual rpm in 3rd gear at 3,000 rpm is 67. It has no problem towing up grades at that speed with a 4K boat and trailer.
I buy the low end torque arguement to a point. The Ford 5.4L does have more HP and Torque (260HP and 350 TQ) versus the Toyota's 4.7L 240hp and 315 TQ. However, this is apples and oranges. That's quite a displacement difference even though the comparative numbers are not that different. The 4.6L ford has 231 hp and 293 TQ. That's a more fair comparision. Any small block truck pulling any kind of weight will need to be in its power range (i.e. 3-4K rpm levels) to pull any decent grade. This is where the Toy excels and it has more than sufficient low end torque to pull quite a load.
The Toyota is not a 3/4 ton truck and doesn't pretend to have a super heavy tow rating. If you want those type of numbers get the 3/4 ton or 1 ton Dodge, Ford, or Chevy Diesel's every time.
Bottom line, go with whatever shakes your tree and suits your needs. For what I need a tow vehicle and daily driver to be, the Toyota is the best choice

gcane
11-08-2001, 02:45 PM
Here's your tow vehicle. www.diesel-central.com/ReadersRigs/june01.htm (http://www.diesel-central.com/ReadersRigs/june01.htm) I think this might be able to tow a 26 footer without a problem

gcane
11-08-2001, 02:53 PM
The link does not work. Lol's truck can be seen at diesel-central.com Readers Rigs June 01 644 HP close to 1300lbft torque

spectras only
11-08-2001, 02:54 PM
I checked out the Tundra before I bought my 1998 Grand Cherokee,pushrod 5.2L V-8 [6500# capacity with 3.73 gears]and found out that,all Tundras had 4.10 rear end ratios and a 7000# tow limit.I think with 3.73 their tow limit would drop tremendously ,since their overhead cam engine require higher revs for torque .I like the quality and reliability of the Toyotas but could barely fit it in my standard sized [19 feet deep]garage.The Cherokee fits in any garage and I haven't got problem pulling my 24 foot Spectra uphill [steep grades to the Okanagan in BC].I had a 1990 Cherokee LTD before with a six banger [4L]and even that model with 3.55 gears pulled my 20 Spectra [4030 pounds with trailer] uphill on the Coquihalla Hwy at a steady 55 MPH .

rivercrazy
11-08-2001, 02:58 PM
The Tundra's rear end is 3.93

spectras only
11-08-2001, 03:04 PM
Rivercrazy, I have the broshure that says 4.10. It's not a 2002 model though.It's a 2001 and maybe it's for canadian model specs only?

rivercrazy
11-08-2001, 03:08 PM
Maybe so. Mine is a 2000 and has the 3.93 rear end and a 7,200lb tow rating. It is big at 18 ft long. It slightly smaller than the big 3 domestics but bigger than the mid sizers.
If I do get a bigger boat, my next truck will probably be the 3/4 ton Ford or Chevy with the Diesel.

spectras only
11-08-2001, 03:10 PM
If I ever get a bigger boat and win the lottery ,I'll buy the Ford 650 super crewzer http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

gcane
11-08-2001, 07:35 PM
spectras, DO you drive a spectre. If so what kind. I read your profile some Hungarian family?

Oldsquirt
11-08-2001, 07:45 PM
Spectras Only and Rivercrazy, here's some info on the gears straight from my New Model Features training books.
2000 - 2002 - V8 models - 3.909(4x4) 3.916(2wd)
2000 - 2001 - V6 models - 4.08(2wd) 4.10(4x4mt) 4.30(4x4at)
2002 - V6 models - Same as V8
This applies to both US and Canadian models.

spectras only
11-08-2001, 10:18 PM
gcane, I have Spectras that made in Burbank california in the seventies.If you refer to Spectre,those made back east and they're cats.Yes ,I'm from Hungary.I left in 1970 and escaped through Yugoslavia to Italy.Spent 8 months there in a refuge camp and travelled all over the place freely there.Never seen so many beautiful mahogany Rivas anywhere else!They're used as watertaxis in Venice.The ultimate job for boatlovers http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif .Thanks for the info Oldsquirt!
[This message has been edited by spectras only (edited November 08, 2001).]

rivercrazy
11-09-2001, 09:56 AM
According to my owners manual and the Toyota Web site, the rear end is 3.93

schiada96
11-09-2001, 10:43 AM
Jack it up mark the drive shaft and spin it and see who is right

Catatonic
11-13-2001, 05:16 PM
Yes Chet I did unload the 22 Sport Cat. We just bought a place in Havasu and are evaluating all of the rides before we buy another. Let me know when you're out in Havasu again and we'll get together.

Riverhound
11-16-2001, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by rivercrazy:
Its kind of sad but the big three American truck makers do not manufacture them in the US. They are 100% built in either Mexico or Canada. The Tundra is build and assembled in the good ole USA.....
I'm confused. I just had meetings with the fine folks at the Michigan Truck Plant where the Expedition/Navigator is built and the Kentucky truck plant where the Excursion/F-Series is built. I also speak requarly to the folks at the Newark Delawre plant where the Dodge Durango is built. The only Big 3 SUV that is built outside the USA is the Suburban However, it is also produced at two plants in the USA.

rivercrazy
11-17-2001, 10:17 AM
They may have design offices there but they are manufactured and assembled in Canada and Mexico. That was as of the last publication I read. It may have changed in the last few months.

Rocket
11-17-2001, 11:16 AM
It sounds like a pissnnn contest to me but for my .02cents worth and my 26ft boat I wouldnt waste my time anything less than a new GM Duramax or a Ford Powerstroke makes no difference just need as real Truck REGARDLESS of where it was put together. Rocket

Rocket
11-17-2001, 11:17 AM
It sounds like a pissnnn contest to me but for my .02cents worth and my 26ft boat I wouldnt waste my time anything less than a new GM Duramax or a Ford Powerstroke makes no difference just need as real Truck REGARDLESS of where it was put together. Rocket

Rocket
11-17-2001, 11:27 AM
Sorry bout the double post seem I m getting better at it!

Riverhound
11-17-2001, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by rivercrazy:
They may have design offices there but they are manufactured and assembled in Canada and Mexico. That was as of the last publication I read. It may have changed in the last few months.
Rivercrazy, I have been employed in the auto industry for eleven years. Im not sure what publication your refering too, but I have physically been thru the plants and watched the build process happen in the locations I indicated in my ealier post. I have a plant listing for for the big 3 that outlines the plant locations as well as the model produced. I could forward it to you if you wish. I just wanted to pass on the correct information.
Riverhound