Electrical Solder ?

[Taylorman]

I re did some of my wiring in my boat today. I had to make 2 wires longer so i soldered another piece of wire to my existing wire to get the length i needed. I got to thinking, does solder reduce electical flow in any way. The wire i extended is the wire to the battery on my MSD box. It has 2 splices that are soldered. Is this bad or will i be ok.

[Rexone]

Should be good. Soldering is one of the best connection methods you can have (done properly).

[steelcomp]

Technically, soldered connections do have a higher level of resistasnce than crimp connections, but in your app it shouldn't be an issue. When you solder two wires together, the best way is to use what's called a hook splice...it's where you tin the end of the two wires, bend them into a "J", and hook them together. Squeeze the "hooks" closed, then solder. Cover the splice with two layers of shrink, the second being slightly longer than the first (overlapping the ends of the first layer) and you're good to go.
-OR-
you could do it this way:http://jaguar.professional.org/electrics/splicing.php

[78Eliminator]

Technically, soldered connections do have a higher level of resistasnce than crimp connections
Just plain wrong.

[steelcomp]

Just plain wrong.Not what I was tought...I did a few years of electronic assy work on governmental underwater sonar equipment...but I'm always open to learning something new. :D

[Taylorman]

Technically, soldered connections do have a higher level of resistasnce than crimp connections, but in your app it shouldn't be an issue. When you solder two wires together, the best way is to use what's called a hook splice...it's where you tin the end of the two wires, bend them into a "J", and hook them together. Squeeze the "hooks" closed, then solder. Cover the splice with two layers of shrink, the second being slightly longer than the first (overlapping the ends of the first layer) and you're good to go.
-OR-
you could do it this way:http://jaguar.professional.org/electrics/splicing.php
Dam thats a great idea. I always have trouble splicing two wires together. I usually strip both wires and push the stripped ends together. I then wrap a single strand of bare wire around the splice to hold it all together then i cover it with solder. Its always a pain in the ass. Im gonna have to try your technique. I suck at soldering anyway. I do believe in it though. Every wire on my boat is soldered.

[MikeF]

Hate to say it J, but Lexus has it in proceedure now that all connections are to be crimped together. Something about smashing them bonds the separate metals together better than solder.

[Norseman]

[QUOTE=steelcomp]Technically, soldered connections do have a higher level of resistasnce than crimp connections, but in your app it shouldn't be an issue. When you solder two wires together, the best way is to use what's called a hook splice...it's where you tin the end of the two wires, bend them into a "J", and hook them together. Squeeze the "hooks" closed, then solder. Cover the splice with two layers of shrink, the second being slightly longer than the first (overlapping the ends of the first layer) and you're good to go.
-OR-
you could do it this way:http://jaguar.professional.org/electrics/splicing.php[/QUOTE
I was always taught to use a linemans splice and then solder. Also was taught to wrap the wire around the terminals prior to soldering. The goverment has all sorts of specs for the correct method to solder connections.
But yes soldering is better than a crimp connection long term, especially in a wet enviorment!!!!

[78Eliminator]

Not what I was tought...I did a few years of electronic assy work on governmental underwater sonar equipment...but I'm always open to learning something new. :D
Were you also Desmond Llewelyn's right hand man, or did he "steel" all your inventions? ;)

[78Eliminator]

Hate to say it J, but Lexus has it in proceedure now that all connections are to be crimped together. Something about smashing them bonds the separate metals together better than solder.
It must be debatable Mike, since I just got out of a class dedicated to the subject of automotive electronics. But what do I know? :cool:

[steelcomp]

Were you also Desmond Llewelyn's right hand man, or did he "steel" all your inventions? ;)Funny guy. No, but who I did work for was a guy named Reg Cyr. You might look him up...he's in the book of Who's Who. He pioneered a number of underwater sonar ideas.
So why don't you just explain to me how I'm wrong? Like I said, I'm looking forward to learning something.
Here's a quote from an automotive repair bulliten that I found regarding new cars and the low voltage they have to deal with:
In making a good solder joint, the potential problem of capillary action exists. The multiple strands of copper in the wire can soak up solder, solder flux and eventually salt and other liquid contaminants. If solder wicks back into the wire, it becomes stiff because the strands are soldered together. Solder flux and salt wicking can cause hidden corrosion, as well. As a result, solder may not always be the best solution and should be the second choice, unless the repair location or the manufacturer specifically requires it. The butt splice offers the simplest wire connection method with the best results, if made with quality connectors and the proper crimping tool.

[78Eliminator]

You always have ten paragraphs for an explanation which requires three words. Some people call that a “smoke screen”. Go ahead and cut and paste all the bullshit you find on the internet to make you look like an expert. And make up your practical experiences. I for one do not buy it. Whatever. This post was about stupid f ucking solder joints, Get a ****ing life.

[quiet riot]

There is always the option of doing it right :rollside: and using a non-insulated crimp connector (butt splice, terminal eye, etc) and crimp the joint properly. Then solder by using a small amount of rosin core (non corrosive) solder on the properly heated joint that lets the solder flow through the connection and both wires. Then heat shrink (not burn) and follow with liquid rubber for a final seal. And use liquid rubber on all terminal connections (must be clean to begin with) except the battery terminals which should be studs/bolts coated with permatex battery terminal protector or the like. And use good insulated wire like this (http://www.ancorproducts.com/Products/Home.html) to begin with.
Thats of course if you only want it to last a lifetime with no issues. :crossx: You'll have more resistance with the added length of wire than the joint itself.
jd

[steelcomp]

:cry: :cry: Sorry you're having a bad day...maybe you shouldn't drink so much. Maybe Christmas blues?? Hemorrhoids? You might think it's a stupid ****ing solder joint, but someone was smart enough to ask about something they weren't sure about. I just gave a simple answer. Speaking of smoke screens, you still didn't prove I was wrong, which I'm always willing to accept. Someone give this poor guy a pat on the head and tell him it'll be all right. Talk about needing a life! LOL! :rolleyes:
Thanks for the kind words.You always have ten paragraphs for an explanation which requires three words. Some people call that a “smoke screen”. Go ahead and cut and paste all the bullshit you find on the internet to make you look like an expert. And make up your practical experiences. I for one do not buy it. Whatever. This post was about stupid f ucking solder joints, Get a ****ing life.

[steelcomp]

I completely agree. There is always the option of doing it right :rollside: and using a non-insulated crimp connector (butt splice, terminal eye, etc) and crimp the joint properly. Then solder by using a small amount of rosin core (non corrosive) solder on the properly heated joint that lets the solder flow through the connection and both wires. Then heat shrink (not burn) and follow with liquid rubber for a final seal. And use liquid rubber on all terminal connections (must be clean to begin with) except the battery terminals which should be studs/bolts coated with permatex battery terminal protector or the like. And use good insulated wire like this (http://www.ancorproducts.com/Products/Home.html) to begin with.
Thats of course if you only want it to last a lifetime with no issues. :crossx: You'll have more resistance with the added length of wire than the joint itself.
jd

[Sleek-Jet]

It's easier to get a consistant splice when crimping. That is the main reason I was given as to why you see crimped connections more often than solder.
Now, I believe in both depending on the application. When I'm solder splicing, I'll strip and tin both pieces of wire approx. 1/2". Then, I wrap the two ends together with a single strand of copper wire, then solder the whole mess togather, and then heat shrink the splice. Works very well if done properly, but it's time consuming. I usually only did this when I was making a harness up on the bench. You're going to need a third hand tool to hold the wires and keep them from moving while you solder.
A quality butt-splice (I prefer AMP) that crimps both the insulation (for strain relief), and the wire, using the proper tool, will work just fine in most applications. Want to make it water proof??? Heat shrink it when done.

[steelcomp]

Here's some newer, really cool stuff on the market.
3M SSC-200x Series, Solder Splice Connector
This system does not require a crimp tool, just a standard heat gun designed for solder-type connectors. The 3M Solder Splice Connector is ideal for wire harness fabrication and repair in a variety of industries. (The Solder Splice Connector is currently in the 3M Industrial product line, the Automotive product line part number will be available soon.)
Description: The 3M SSC-200x is a one piece design. It is insulated with a flame-retardant, heat-shrinkable sleeve of 3M's new flexible THV fluoropolymer. THV offers outstanding clarity of the insulation sleeve which allows easy inspection of the connection. Inside the sleeve are colored thermoplastic sealing dams and a wire-locking barrel with a fluxed solder disk.
http://www.tech-cor.net/AutoResBulletin/1995-4/images/1995-4-IMG02.JPG
http://www.tech-cor.net/AutoResBulletin/1995-4/images/1995-4-IMG03.JPG
AMP Pre-Insulated Sealed Terminals and Splices (catalog # 82602)
AMP Pre-Insulated Sealed Connectors are environmentally sealed to prevent corrosion from fluids and vapors. The tin plated copper connector body has a color-coded insulator. The heavy duty polyolefin heat-shrinkable insulator sleeve provides: exceptional insulation, a moisture-proof seal to prevent corrosion, wire support and permits visual inspection. Available tooling provides a firm mechanical crimp, assuring electrical integrity. These one piece connectors allows fast, easy terminations. Photograph 1 shows the Seal 'N Splice connector after the wires are joined and sealed. This connector is very favorable when appearance is important, along with providing a high quality splice joint repair.
http://www.tech-cor.net/AutoResBulletin/1995-4/images/1995-4-IMG01.JPG
Herre's a link to the page that has a lot of useful information about wire repair and splicing.
http://www.tech-cor.net/AutoResBulletin/1995-4/1995-4.htm

[Sleek-Jet]

There has been a similiar product on the market for at least 10 years now. The shop I was working for got a sample from the manufacturer. We tried them out and they were the beez kneez... until we found out that they were over a dollar a piece. Can't remember who was making them then.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Taylor man, you will be fine;) I am cetified in soldering electrical boards. I used to build pacemakers and built alot of boards for motorolla;) Dont worry about resistance. Like mentioned above, length of wire adds resistance! With the low ammount of amperage that you are dealing with you will be fine;) Now if it was car audio then you would need to add larger diameter wire to compensate the current draw. I hope this helps. If you have any more q's dont hesitat, pm me;)
396(michael)

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

http://jaguar.professional.org/electrics/splicing.php
This is "one" of the proper ways to do it BUT I would use several strands of wire to wrap around the joined wires. That would make it alot stronger;)
396

[Rexone]

I'm glad this thread returned to topic. The name calling bs belongs in bench racers or the sandbar, not in Gear heads so please restrain yourselves from the need to talk shit here.
My thoughts on soldering in automotive and marine: In most cases it's a better connection choice than the alternative most people go with...
Mainly this... the cheapest butt and ring connectors that the auto parts or home depot type outlet sells. The cheapies are not worth a shit over the long haul especially in marine where you have a big corrosion factor present. The typical cheap connectors have hard plastic insulators half of which split when crimped and less than top quality metal. Most folks don't have a "good" crimp tool either. Soldering is superior by far to all of the above. Most guys balk at the cost of good connectors for everyday use from what I've seen. Most of that stems from lack of education on the connectors in my opinion.
Now if you got the right stuff for crimping, good connectors with shrink with mastic vs plain old shrink, the proper tool, etc., yes then crimp connecting is great. From what I've seen in most cases though is most don't have this stuff but use the cheap crap. The cheap crap works for awhile or in a pinch but ends up being a point of resistance down the road or breaks.
396 & Steel I added your links to the "tech links" thread, thanks

[myoung]

Just thought I'd add my experience to this subject. I have found that even with the best crimpers and connectors on the market, there is a higher level of crimped connection failure than there is with soldering. Most of that could be from opperator error, I couldn't say, but I've seen way more 'factory' crimped connections that should have been done with the best that modern technology has to offer come apart than any soldered connections.
For me, I prefer to use different connections based on the application. Sometimes I just crimp, sometimes I solder, and sometimes I crimp and solder. Just depends on the situation. Everytime I just solder, if I can I use a lineman's splice, if I can't then I twist the ends together similar to what the guys are doing with wrapping a strand of wire around. I've never had the need for the extra strand though. I have used the 'j-hook' type of splice as well, but prefer a cleaner looking splice that is just as strong since sometimes the work is visible. In areas where there may be tension on the wire for whatever reason, I'll take the insulation off of a crimp connector and crimp the wires together before soldering. Either soldering, or crimping and soldering always get covered with shrink wrap. About the only time I just crimp on connectors is for terminations or stuff done in a pinch, typically never on a butt connection.
The biggest thing that can make or break the quality is the equipment. If you're going to rely on crimping exclusively, don't buy the $2.00 auto parts store crimpers. Get some Kleins or something just as good. Even Sears sells the Kleins so it's not like they're hard to find, the only catch is you gatta pay a bit more for them. If you plan on soldering all or most of your connections, don't go to Radio Shack and get some cheap 20 watt iron. Get something that is going to constantly hold it's temp and is going to work over the long haul. If you don't have a local electronics supply then there are dozens of good soldering irons for smokin deals on Ebay. I've always used Weller stations instead of those 'pistol grip' style, just what I prefer.
One last thing, if you are one to use fusable links or resistance wire for your coil's + wire, those have to be crimped. Solder doesn't stick to those wires. Learned that one the hard way a long long time ago. :hammerhea

[myoung]

BTW, just for my own curiosity because I didn't know one way or the other, I did a search on Google for 'solder connection resistance'. A lot of stuff came up and I didn't feel like reading it all, but I did find an interesting excerpt in one thing I was reading.
"When you consider solder contains some 60% tin (6 times the resistance of copper) and 35 to 40% lead (12 times the resistance of copper) one can see the importance of reducing solder connections."
They were discussing amplifiers and the possibility of going back from PC boards for circuits to hardwiring and it's downfalls. I found it interesting anyway. :boxed: