Pump setback in SWTD or not?

[JAY4SPEED]

I've started to mock up the pump placement on my project SWTD. I had changed from a standard Berkeley intake and pump to the Aggressor 5* race intake and Aggressor pump. While doing the swap, some problems have come up and I need some advise.
With the intake in the stock location and set at the proper 5* angle, the bowl flange on the suction housing is lower than the standard Berkeley was so the transom adapter from the Berk cannot be reused, it doesn't even come close to lining up.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/3350DSC03003-med.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/3350DSC03006-med.JPG
Also, the bowl flange is right up against the hull and there is going to be a problem with the bowl bolts and the transom plate I'll have to fabricate will only have the very rear of the bowl flange on the suction housing to seal to.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/3350DSC03007-med.JPG
So, one option I was thinking was to set the intake back as far as it will go and still be inside of the hull (about 2 inches).
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/3350DSC03001-med.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/3350DSC02991-med.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/3350DSC02996-med.JPG
This way, I can fabricate a 3/8" or 1/2" transom plate and still be able to access the bowl bolts. The transom plate will be sealed to the suction housing just past the bowl flange and just where the hand hole cover starts.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/3350DSC02986-med.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/3350DSC02988-med.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/3350DSC02990-med.JPG
I didn't think a full pump setback like this would be necessary / beneficial to me since the SWTD kind of has the setback pump built in with the pod. Isn't there a point where you can hang a pump too far out the back of the transom? Should I go this far out or stay inside the hull?
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/3350319Boatfest_2004_162.jpg
Any input is much appreciated. Thanks!
Jay

[Nucking futs]

Jay, just move it back enough to get what you need.No need to go all the way out like in the picture.Call Duane and get his opinion as well.
Tim

[sleekcrafter]

Jay mines set, so the back of the hand hole is flush with the transom, my transom plate will just clear the back side of the clean out. My cleanout is useless as it was, it's now filled and smoothed in.
Sleek

[JAY4SPEED]

Jay mines set, so the back of the hand hole is flush with the transom, my transom plate will just clear the back side of the clean out. My cleanout is useless as it was, it's now filled and smoothed in.
Sleek
Sleek, if I'm understanding you correctly, your transom plate seals between the aft side of the handhold cover and the flange where the bowl mounts? Not on the other side of the hand hole cover like in the last picture, like a full setback correct? If so, I think that is what I want to do. Would you happen to have a pic of how yours is done and what thickness plate did you use for the transom plate? Thanks Bro...
Thanks Tim, will give Duane a call if he doesn't see this post first.
Jay

[anger management]

heres mine this is where the pump was when I got the boat,not sure if this is the stock location.Of course this is a standard berk pump so this may not help you .http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2309Picture_222.jpg

[sleekcrafter]

Sleek, if I'm understanding you correctly, your transom plate seals between the aft side of the handhold cover and the flange where the bowl mounts? Not on the other side of the hand hole cover like in the last picture, like a full setback correct? If so, I think that is what I want to do. Would you happen to have a pic of how yours is done and what thickness plate did you use for the transom plate? Thanks Bro...
Thanks Tim, will give Duane a call if he doesn't see this post first.
Jay
Jay, I think your following me, so far. I'll get a picture up tommorrow night.

[bp]

for whatever it's worth, i would not set the intake any further back than the original placement. that white/pink/blue boat looks really nice, but with the pump that far back, at a significant speed it could get kinda squirely, and it's not really necessary to make the boat go any faster. then there's the strength of the pod to consider. with the pump that far back, it would be easier to get the boat riding on nothing but the center sponson. that can be uncomfortable, and doesn't really add anything to the performance of the hull.
in fact, there's another swtd (futz has seen it) that was laid up after mr. jennings sold the mold, that is very light and was used as a fuel boat in the early 80s, that i've looked at closely a couple times. that bottom is significantly different than any other swtd i've ever seen, but it was laid up that way. one of the differences was the intake was about 4-5" further forward than mine, or any of the others i've seen. it had a short pod, but the handhole was still inside it, only sealing the bowl (has an R intake in it, that's how original it is). it's very tight with the intake further ahead like it is, with a blown gas motor, but it's easy to tell that with a fuel motor, it would most likely run very well.
my feeling is, if you're going to power it to run 70 or 80, setting it back would probably not get you into trouble. if you're going to run 100-110 or above, setting it back will get to much of the outter sponsons out of the water, which isn't all that cool. i've been there, but there's a better way to set the boat so it doesn't do that. even tre was bouncing side to side barely over 90 at firebird, and more speed could be obtained by eliminating that tendency.
good luck with it. oh, anger management, a suggestion would be to fab up a ride plate that's 3-4" longer than the one you have on there right now. i'm using 1/2", which keeps it's shape much better without having the room for a lot of bracing.

[JAY4SPEED]

BP,
I know you're very knowledgeable in the SWTD setup and you have yours dialed in. I've pretty much decided to do the 1.5' setback and keep the intake inside of the hull like Tim and Sleek suggested. It will be a little less of a setback than Anger management has in his picture. Again, the only reason for me attempting this is for serviceability of the bowl and a better seal for the transom plate. I'm not attempting the setback for performance gains. I just don't want to get myself into too much trouble...lol and have it adversly affect the handling and make it unsafe. I plan to have the hand hole cover just to inside of the transom plate, with the intake being 1.5" to 2.0" back from the stock location. Would that make it too squirrely at 80 or 90+ mph? How do you think that will make the boat react? With the engine that I've got planned @ around 700 hp I don't want to be just on the center sponson and bouncing off the outers riding too high and dry. I'm also running a shoe and ride-plate from Duane @ Hi-tech.
That fuel boat you mentioned sounds interesting. I can see how the pump set forward would keep the nose down. How else was the bottom different? Were the outter sponsons extended downward closer to the keel depth of the main sponson?
Anger Management,
Thanks for posting the pic, that's pretty much what I was talking about, just a little less of a setback with the handhole cover completely on the inside.
Sleek,
I understand now what you were saying. Thanks again Bro!
Jay

[JAY4SPEED]

One more thing, would any of yall have a pic of how the rideplate and shoe fit into the bottom of the keel?
My boat just had the std intake with no rideplate. The keel is rounded before and after the intake. It looks like I'm going to have to take out the rounded part of the keel after the intake to fit the rideplate. This is about where the intake is gong to end up fore and aft. I haven't cut the floor out yet in this pic. so when the floor is cut, the rear of the intake will drop down some to get the 5* angle. The black line on the keel after the intake is where the floor opening is going to be extended to.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/3350DSC02996.JPG
Just making sure I'm on the right track here.
Jay

[FOURQ]

ok i guess i will put my .02 in ... i would leave the intake in the stcck location and cut the pod down the 1.5 or 2 inches your looking for. mine was cut 6 inches to have the hand hole out side of the boat for a pop-off . that way you can have all the hard stuff to get to outside and easy to make changes or fix something...Jay your stuff will go out today.
Shawn

[bp]

cutting the pod is also a viable option as shawn said. i haven't done it, but never say never....
with the intake in that location with 700hp, you should be ok. that pic pretty clearly shows the dilema; the intake is completely behind the transom, which could affect balance if the boat gets going at real good speed. there will be a point where it will be difficult to keep that intake in the water. there are other things you can do to help address that.
don't know what you plan on with the tunnel plates, but i had mine powder coated several years ago, at the same time i pc'd everything else in the boat, and it's great. they clean up real nice and easy, and still look good.
you -are- going to have to do some grinding behind the intake to get the plate to fit correctly; no biggy. wait 'til you have the intake set so you can see how much you'll need to take off.
i'll have to talk about that other swtd later... no time right now.

[Nucking futs]

You could cut the pod say 1" in and then the amount of of the pod that you need cut off and then glass the end you cut off back on, but that is kind of alot of work,well more then just moving the intake back.You will need to grind the aft of the keel flat so you can get the plate to adjust correctly.
The other southwind BP was talking about is that white thunder SWTD with the huge alky engine in it. I talked to him recently and he plans on putting a pro stock type engine in it. The tunnels on that thing are kinda shaped like the daytonas and steaths. Never seen a SWTD like that one before and and while talking to him they found that the "R" intake was set in way wrong so that could be there performance problem. he said it would never react to hardware changes, so Im sure he will be back out to ming.
Now that my cruiser is almost complete, I can get on my SWTD. I would really like to get it out to the track soon.

[JAY4SPEED]

Shawn, thanks bro, I'm looking forward to getting them! I've got to show my "Southwind Pride!"
Ok, back to the ass scratching.....uh I mean head scratching. I've decided to leave the pump in the stock location. I don't see the need to upset the balance of the boat, especially if I put in some "real" power in it in the future. I'd rather the boat be safer than convenient.
It looks like the simplest solution for the time being is to leave to pump in the stock location, and fab up an extended transom plate that will seal farther aft on the bowl than at or before the bowl flange and forget the "easy access" idea for now. I'll have to clearance the flange at the end of hte pod to be able to get to the bowl bolts. When I get to the point where I'll be racing in the future and will be doing impeller changes, I'll cut down the pod then. Does it look like my intake opening is in the right spot? Thanks for all the input fellas!
Jay