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Intruder
05-23-2006, 10:52 AM
Last Saturday, on the return trip from Topock I was stopped by the Fish and Game for excessive noise in the area of the reserve just before the mouth of Havasu. No craziness, just cursing at about 45 mph but alone on the river. They did the standard Coast Guard safety equip. and sobriety check. I know that the allowable decibel levels differ depending upon the jurisdiction. What I don't know is the legal Federal level and none was noted on the citation. Many boats on the lake are much louder than mine!! Has anyone received a similar ticket and what was the outcome?

Kachina26
05-23-2006, 11:20 AM
No craziness, just cursing at about 45 mph but alone on the river.
You got popped for cursing?
J/K, I think max Db is 86 at 50 feet. What did they get you at?

carbonmarine
05-23-2006, 11:24 AM
EVERYONE IS GOING TO GET POPPED THIS WEEKEND......watch! :cool:

91nordic29
05-23-2006, 11:25 AM
see this thread
topock gorge crack down (http://www.***boat.net/forums/showthread.php?t=115926)

Intruder
05-23-2006, 11:26 AM
It is not stated on the citation. Before being stopped I saw what I thought was a Sheriff with his boat jammed into the reeds spying the traffic going down river. I was never within 500 feet of him...

Havasu_Dreamin
05-23-2006, 11:28 AM
Seems like they are getting serious with enforcing the laws on the books.

Not So Fast
05-23-2006, 11:40 AM
Last Saturday, on the return trip from Topock I was stopped by the Fish and Game for excessive noise in the area of the reserve just before the mouth of Havasu. No craziness, just cursing at about 45 mph but alone on the river. They did the standard Coast Guard safety equip. and sobriety check. I know that the allowable decibel levels differ depending upon the jurisdiction. What I don't know is the legal Federal level and none was noted on the citation. Many boats on the lake are much louder than mine!! Has anyone received a similar ticket and what was the outcome?
More info please, what kind of boat,swimstep,motor ect. do you have any idea what your reading would be? Seems to me that the citation would have to say what kind of test was administered and at what level you were. Are you saying they just gave it the ole "ear test" as you went by? How could that stand up in a court of law without documentation. I think that we as a group (boaters) have to get as smart as we can get and know the law and if we can fight bogus citations we need to do it. I for one will do just that, this story doesn't sound right to me from a legal standpoint, Maybe BoatCop can clarify, please :confused: NSF

RiverDave
05-23-2006, 11:41 AM
I didn't think there was a "federal" level? I.E. Fish and Game shouldn't write that ticket, but the coppers could?
RD

Havasu_Dreamin
05-23-2006, 11:42 AM
Cross-post
Thanks for sending us your thoughts on the Havasu National Wildlife Refuge sections of the Colorado River. I hope I can answer your questions.
You are correct, it is impossible for you to travel from the I-40 bridge to the north end of Lake Havasu without passing through the refuge. National wildlife refuges are unique areas that have purposes and protections different from most other types of public lands and waters. We must ensure that all public use activities are safe and compatible with the purposes of the refuge. Any activity creating noise at extreme volumes is disturbing to wildlife and reduces the value of the refuge to wildlife (and visitors). The noise created by many of the boats traveling through the refuge is extreme and their use is incompatible with the purposes of the refuge.
As to the definition of loud... National Wildlife Refuge regulations are provided in 50 CFR (Code of Federal Regulations; available on-line). Disturbing with vehicles regulations are provided at 50 CFR 27.21(e)(1). This section does not indicate a specific decibel level that is considered too loud; it states simply a vehicle that produces unusual or excessive noise... is prohibited. With this in mind, refuge officers typically refer to state noise regulations for guidance. Most boats we have stopped for excessive noise are in very clear violation of state law. If you comply with Arizona and/or California law, you will be O.K. on the refuge in most instances. Also, 50 CFR 27.21(e)(1) requires that every vehicle operated on a national wildlife refuge be equipped with a muffling device that cannot be bypassed.
Please feel free to contact the refuge anytime, we appreciate your interest.
John Earle
Refuge Manager
Havasu National Wildlife Refuge
PO Box 3009
Needles, California 92363
(760) 326-3853

Not So Fast
05-23-2006, 11:50 AM
So this guy is saying that basically the Ranger (or whatever they are called) can arbitrarily say you are too loud without a test of any sort. Thats not right!!!!!! :yuk: NSF

Not So Fast
05-23-2006, 11:57 AM
Oh, I forgot, what does the citation say, how much is the fine $$ and can you go to court to fight it like any other citation, which court? where? Sorry to be so inquizitive (SP) but I think a lot of us on here want to know all we can, thanks. I call BS on this crap. :mad: NSF

Havasu_Dreamin
05-23-2006, 11:59 AM
So this guy is saying that basically the Ranger (or whatever they are called) can arbitrarily say you are too loud without a test of any sort. Thats not right!!!!!! :yuk: NSF
Not necessarily. He states that they typically defer to the State regulation.

Intruder
05-23-2006, 12:13 PM
The fine is $100 and a $25 handling fee if you can believe that crap!! It's insult upon injury.

Not So Fast
05-23-2006, 01:02 PM
Not necessarily. He states that they typically defer to the State regulation.
Understood, but this is done with no kind of a test? :idea: Seems sort of illegal doesn't it. One guys idea of too noisy (say a pontoon owner) and anothers idea (say a hot boat owner) could vary greatly, no? There just has to be some sort or level ground for issuing a citation or it's all subjective to the individual. HUH, what did i just say?? :chi: peace, NSF

Havasu_Dreamin
05-23-2006, 01:09 PM
Understood, but this is done with no kind of a test? :idea: Seems sort of illegal doesn't it. One guys idea of too noisy (say a pontoon owner) and anothers idea (say a hot boat owner) could vary greatly, no? There just has to be some sort or level ground for issuing a citation or it's all subjective to the individual. HUH, what did i just say?? :chi: peace, NSF
If they are deferring to the State regulation, as stated in the email response, I would think they are performing some type of test, right? IF not, I would think it would be very easy to fight the citation.....And on that note, where do you fight a citation issued by US Fish and Game? Federal court?

Boatcop
05-23-2006, 01:14 PM
If they are deferring to the State regulation, as stated in the email response, I would think they are performing some type of test, right? IF not, I would think it would be very easy to fight the citation.....And on that note, where do you fight a citation issued by US Fish and Game? Federal court?
Violators appears in Federal Court. Not sure which one, but the 3 closest Courts are Las Vegas, Phoenix and Yuma.
Also make sure you're talking about the right Agency.
US Fish and Wildlife - Federal Agency
AZ Game and Fish - Arizona State Agency
Cal. Fish and Game - California State Agency
BLM also uses boats on the Lake and Upper River - Federal Agency

Phat Matt
05-23-2006, 01:55 PM
Looks like you need to turn off the engines and float on down river (That is if you make it by them on the way up) and enjoy the scenery.

Havasu_Dreamin
05-23-2006, 01:59 PM
What are the chances that stepped up enforcement of the noise regulations in the Wildlife Refuge will lead to less boats at the Sandbar and more boats down on the lake itself?

Leeward
05-23-2006, 02:08 PM
Is the whole lake a wildlife refuge?

Phat Matt
05-23-2006, 02:09 PM
Is the whole lake a wildlife refuge?
No

3 daytona`s
05-23-2006, 02:16 PM
What about the two Red tour boats they make plenty of noise and their wake is ridiculous :confused:

Havasu_Dreamin
05-23-2006, 03:36 PM
What about the two Red tour boats they make plenty of noise and their wake is ridiculous :confused:
That is an EXCELLENT question!

Not So Fast
05-23-2006, 04:41 PM
What about the two Red tour boats they make plenty of noise and their wake is ridiculous :confused:
You mean the ones that if you dont know about them that they will SWAMP YOUR ASS, yeah, what about them :mad: NSF

Essex502
05-23-2006, 05:11 PM
The fine is $100 and a $25 handling fee if you can believe that crap!! It's insult upon injury.
I didn't see the type of boat, motor and whether or not you have mufflers on it posted. Please update all of us!

77charger
05-23-2006, 05:29 PM
I guess when i go out there i wont have any worries about tickets since thru hub exhaust is pretty quiet.Maybe less traffic too.
The noise laws have been there for a while now they are enforcing it and people complain.I would like to know more also its pretty obvious if a boat is too loud or not,you make an effort to quiet it down,etc.No i aint for restrictions either but this aint 20 years ago either.A boat with mufflers is makin an effort a boat with thur transom exhaust and big motor running near wide open isnt.

JB in so cal
05-23-2006, 05:37 PM
What about the two Red tour boats they make plenty of noise and their wake is ridiculous :confused:
My guess is they will get the same harsh treatment as the paddle wheeler that goes on whole-chanel tours and is over 33' long (max length in channel) and gets no tickey-tickey... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Huckleberry
05-23-2006, 06:00 PM
What about the two Red tour boats they make plenty of noise and their wake is ridiculous :confused:
I would think the tsunami waves those things throw out would be way more damaging to the gnatcathcers and turtles than a loud boat.

Leeward
05-23-2006, 07:50 PM
Are the wild life rangers the only ones enforcing the noise laws? If they are cant you just stay off the reserve.

PHOTOGLOU
05-23-2006, 08:18 PM
I don't know who I got my ticket from.... Think it was BLM...... it was $165 paid by credit card to needles court with no appearance ......

cola
05-23-2006, 08:59 PM
My guess is they will get the same harsh treatment as the paddle wheeler that goes on whole-chanel tours and is over 33' long (max length in channel) and gets no tickey-tickey... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
No restriction on vessle length in channel with a Captain's lic.

MONEYFURNOTHIN
05-23-2006, 09:00 PM
This sucks! Just another reason im glad i have an egg beater! Still B.S. though, i thought az was the last outlaw state? I have a fealing we will be seeing speed limits soon... with a fire sale on hot boats to follow!

3 daytona`s
05-23-2006, 09:14 PM
Hey!!! Boat COP PLEASE reply to this-- from the Midwest Missouri River originally, and was always told by the Corps Of Engineers and the Game Fish in The 3 states that had power on that body of water,you were responsible for the damage that your boat wake makes.I`m thinking these BIG RED BOATS are responsible for dock damage and other problems.I`m not trying to start trouble but the boats are getting by with things non- commercial people can do. Please everyone be subjected to the same rules.

Havasu_Dreamin
05-24-2006, 06:52 AM
My guess is they will get the same harsh treatment as the paddle wheeler that goes on whole-chanel tours and is over 33' long (max length in channel) and gets no tickey-tickey... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
From what I understand they have a permit to go thru the channel as it is a tour boat with a licensed Captain at the helm. The same may end up applying to the red jet boats from Laughlin.....

riverbound
05-24-2006, 07:40 AM
Did you at least make an attempt to quiet your boat down by using mufflers? or are you running un muffled exhaust?