WTF is a Modified V [Archive]

Phat_Kat

06-25-2003, 08:30 PM

This is a modified V. They're a tunnel bottom with a Vee design. They don't trap air quite as well so it takes a bit more to get them out of the water. You're next question is probably "will they beat a cat?" The answer is argueable. Technically no. However, if you get the air under a boat like this a put it against something like a mach 22 with the same power... the mod-v will match if not beat the mach. These results do vary and that's why I say it's argueable. This doesn't apply to all mod-v's but I know 2 guys. One has a mach 22 with a 300x and a guy with the same model of boat as pictured below(sleekcraft SST) with a 300x and the SST will beat the mach by about 5-10 feet. The next arguement will be that the props are different and the answer is no. They're just as fast as a cat but it's a hell of a lot harder to get them there. If you want a ride I'll definatly give ya one. They're one hell of a rush.
http://www.angelfire.com/pro/cow/DSC00014.JPG

rude235

06-25-2003, 08:32 PM

a mod v is like a lavey craft sebring, a stoker, or a cheetah. it generaly looks like a v-bottom from above but has a tunnel underneath. hope this helps. eliminator used to make one a few years back as well.

Phat_Kat

06-25-2003, 08:33 PM

rude235:
a mod v is like a lavey craft sebring, a stoker, or a cheetah. it generaly looks like a v-bottom from above but has a tunnel underneath. hope this helps. eliminator used to make one a few years back as well. you forgot sleekcraft and also baker

bigq

06-25-2003, 08:43 PM

ok so it is the top, the way it looks that makes it a mod v and is it different than a tunnel hull? From what I understand from speaking with stoker and Cheetah is that that type of hull turns like it is on rails, which tells me it is uite a bit different than a cat.What do you tell the insurance company a mod v or tunnel, cheetah said mod V.
[ June 25, 2003, 09:46 PM: Message edited by: bigq ]

Phat_Kat

06-25-2003, 08:49 PM

bigq:
ok so it is the top, the way it looks that makes it a mod v and is it different than a tunnel hull? From what I understand from speaking with stoker and Cheetah is that that type of hull turns like it is on rails, which tells me it is uite a bit different than a cat.What do you tell the insurance company a mod v or tunnel, cheetah said mod V. Are you looking to make a purchase? I'd highly recommend the sleekcraft SST. Talk to havasubarney. I'd also recommend putting some serious ponies on it so you can get the life. You want to talk to a mod-v nut just PM me.

bigq

06-25-2003, 09:00 PM

I can't deciede between a tunnel or a V.Insurance for a cat is out of the question, but if I can get a Mod V insured for a good price I would rather have that then the V. The only I think I would trust for speed is the Howard in a V bottom. Anyway I was all set on the cat till I started pricing the insurance. eek!

bigq

06-25-2003, 09:02 PM

BTW need something bigger than the SST.Like in the 23 to 25 range.
thanks

rude235

06-25-2003, 09:16 PM

as soon as i saw the post of the pic i knew i'd catch some crap for not mentioning them :) i have heard the same thing about a mod v's turning ability. stokers used to be the boat to beat on the race circuit. as far as your insurance, DEFINITELY tell them it's a mod-v!! if you're looking in the 23+ range, the only one i can think of still in production is the cheetah. you could also look for an eliminator edge, it's a 23 ft mod-v. stoker used to make (maybe still does) a 26ft sst.

Phat_Kat

06-25-2003, 09:22 PM

rude235:
as soon as i saw the post of the pic i knew i'd catch some crap for not mentioning them :) i have heard the same thing about a mod v's turning ability. stokers used to be the boat to beat on the race circuit. as far as your insurance, DEFINITELY tell them it's a mod-v!! if you're looking in the 23+ range, the only one i can think of still in production is the cheetah. you could also look for an eliminator edge, it's a 23 ft mod-v. stoker used to make (maybe still does) a 26ft sst. I've heard that they can prove almost impossible to get air under. But go mod-v none the less. They rule!

Phat_Kat

06-25-2003, 09:28 PM

I don't know but that's not exactly the prettiest boat on earth. But it's something to ride in.
meet the stoker 26SST
http://stokerboats.com/images/26sst/26-01.jpg

bigq

06-25-2003, 09:44 PM

That 26 stoker would be a kick ass boat if they would do an upgrade on the style. I saw one for sale in the trader a few months back, it look just like that one.

Phat_Kat

06-25-2003, 09:48 PM

bigq:
That 26 stoker would be a kick ass boat if they would do an upgrade on the style. I saw one for sale in the trader a few months back, it look just like that one. the style is low. actually you need every last bit of those two outboards to get it going fast enough for air. Sorry to be depressing but I'm just laying out the facts.

HavasuDreamin'

06-26-2003, 01:27 PM

I could be wrong, but don't you think the Insurance companies know that a modified v is a tunnel? I know State Farm specifies that they will NOT insure any tunnels. I think you could run into the same insurance problems with a mod v as you do a picklefork tunnel. Just my $.02 :o

Phat_Kat

06-26-2003, 01:29 PM

HavasuDreamin'

06-26-2003, 01:37 PM

Phat_Kat Mines registered as a Vee. Don't know if that's legal but screw'em.The problem is you're the one that is going to get screwed if you need the insurance company to step up and pay out. They find out you lied.......they deny coverage. It sucks, but it is the truth, and part of the insurance assessors job is to see if there is any legal way to deny coverage. It is not good to lie to the insurance man. frown

Phat_Kat

06-26-2003, 01:40 PM

oh by the way,
If you plan on making tight turns in one of these things... CANCEL THEM. Although they are not nearly as good at getting air under them as a cat they are far more sticky. This is where they make up for the lack of air. No matter how fast you go these things will stick like glue. This great for people who:
A) like to chase assholes on jetski's
or
B)Are completely insane like me
For the rest of the crowd who just likes to cruise... well you're gonna get a wakeup call as far as turning goes. It's extremely difficult to get these things to whip around. MY father can make the thing turn on a dime but then again he's be driving it for 23 or so years. And he's be driving mod-V's since somewhere in the late 70's. Bottom line is that they're not good family boats and I'll never understand why stoker cluttered their lineup with the things. They're made to race and not much more. Learn it, love it, and accept it.

Phat_Kat

06-26-2003, 01:41 PM

HavasuDreamin':
Phat_Kat Mines registered as a Vee. Don't know if that's legal but screw'em.The problem is you're the one that is going to get screwed if you need the insurance company to step up and pay out. They find out you lied.......they deny coverage. It sucks, but it is the truth, and part of the insurance assessors job is to see if there is any legal way to deny coverage. It is not good to lie to the insurance man. :( Actually the insurance guy is my dad's 20 year runninng friend and he said and I quote directly "****'em there's a V shape on this thing so it's a Vee"

bigq

06-26-2003, 01:53 PM

HavasuDreamin':
I could be wrong, but don't you think the Insurance companies know that a modified v is a tunnel? I know State Farm specifies that they will NOT insure any tunnels. I think you could run into the same insurance problems with a mod v as you do a picklefork tunnel. Just my $.02 :o So what are they going to classify the new Hallett 26 AC Tunnel or V bottom? and no I don't think you are wrong, as soon as you describe the bottom and the word tunnel pops out that's it. :D
[ June 26, 2003, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: bigq ]

Phat_Kat

06-26-2003, 01:55 PM

bigq:
HavasuDreamin':
I could be wrong, but don't you think the Insurance companies know that a modified v is a tunnel? I know State Farm specifies that they will NOT insure any tunnels. I think you could run into the same insurance problems with a mod v as you do a picklefork tunnel. Just my $.02 :o So what are they going to classify the new Hallett 26 AC Tunnel or V bottom? farms will say V
[ June 26, 2003, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: Phat_Kat ]

jus a baker

06-26-2003, 02:26 PM

when i got my boat insurace co had no idea or questions about hull, all they asked was "does it go over 40 mph" and i of course said uuuhhhh no.
oh btw mine starts packin air only in the upper 50 mph range with the right chop but its fun boat to drive

Phat_Kat

06-26-2003, 02:29 PM

jus a baker:
when i got my boat insurace co had no idea or questions about hull, all they asked was "does it go over 40 mph" and i of course said uuuhhhh no.
oh btw mine starts packin air only in the upper 50 mph range with the right chop but its fun boat to drive same here on the speed! Sometimes it'll take a little whip especially when the tanks are full or there's 2 people in the boat. You have that problem too?

Reaper1

06-26-2003, 02:39 PM

So what if you tell the insurance company that it's a catamaran??? :D

bigq

06-26-2003, 02:42 PM

Reaper1:
So what if you tell the insurance company that it's a catamaran??? :D dead silence, then "click" :D

jus a baker

06-26-2003, 03:02 PM

mine dosent seem to care how many people in or fule, same speeds and hanleing, just put a cleaver on, so far works better

mbrown2

06-26-2003, 03:15 PM

If you are interested in a pretty quick Mod-VP in the 23 range, look at the 22.3 Stoker...with stock 500HP Efi power, it ran 95 (that's the fastest any boat I am aware of ran with an HP500EFI). It has an updated deck and will handle better water than most 23's but not the same as a 25...
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1Stoker_22-med.JPG
[ June 26, 2003, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: mbrown2 ]

Phat_Kat

06-26-2003, 05:49 PM

mbrown2:
If you are interested in a pretty quick Mod-VP in the 23 range, look at the 22.3 Stoker...with stock 500HP Efi power, it ran 95 (that's the fastest any boat I am aware of ran with an HP500EFI). It has an updated deck and will handle better water than most 23's but not the same as a 25...
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1Stoker_22-med.JPG Yeah but will the ****er turn? I think not.

jus a baker

06-26-2003, 05:53 PM

Phat_Kat.... you have a problem turning??

Phat_Kat

06-26-2003, 06:17 PM

jus a baker:
Phat_Kat.... you have a problem turning?? on tight ones. Gotta running the throttle on and off. The main problem is that ever since the carbs rebuilt and the engine was built to run on unleaded... the throttle is kinda slow. There's a 1/2 - 1 second delay when you get on it from a mid RPM(3000 or so). Maybe that's my issue but you gotta admit that they don't whip quite as well as the rest of the bunch.

mbrown2

06-26-2003, 06:20 PM

Phat_Kat:
mbrown2:
Yeah but will the ****er turn? I think not. Phat Kat, check your facts :confused: , January 2002 Hot Boat test...Boat Showed it Mod-V Heritage through turns... Stoker Tunnels are some of the best turning boats this side of F1 outboards...I have driven Skaters and DCB's and V's including Sleekcraft and Eliminator and none of them turn like the Stoker Tunnels. Alan Stoker is the best at designing Mod-Vp's and getting them to turn and turn fast....Skaterfast on this board will back that claim up, a former owner of a Stoker.
[ June 26, 2003, 07:25 PM: Message edited by: mbrown2 ]

jus a baker

06-26-2003, 06:24 PM

i agree, mine feels like i have no power steering, even with new cable, but it turns flat as hell!!
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/683Pict0016-thumb.jpg

Phat_Kat

06-26-2003, 06:36 PM

mbrown2:
Phat_Kat:
mbrown2:
Yeah but will the ****er turn? I think not. Phat Kat, check your facts :confused: , January 2002 Hot Boat test...Boat Showed it Mod-V Heritage through turns... Stoker Tunnels are some of the best turning boats this side of F1 outboards...I have driven Skaters and DCB's and V's including Sleekcraft and Eliminator and none of them turn like the Stoker Tunnels. Alan Stoker is the best at designing Mod-Vp's and getting them to turn and turn fast....Skaterfast on this board will back that claim up, a former owner of a Stoker. I pointed this out earlier. They sugar coat the shit out of everyting in these magazines. I have real world experience because I own a mod V and I've driven all the stokers, baker, and cheetas. I have the experience and don't trust ***boat on that sort of stuff. I made a post about this before, do a search on it. I wasn't the first to point out the BS levels. I have my facts straight cause I've driven the facts.

mbrown2

06-26-2003, 06:41 PM

I have ridden in a Stoker too, so maybe the ones you have ridden were not rigged right; BS level or not, the ones I have ridden in, turned better than a Ski Nautique tournament boat.

Phat_Kat

06-26-2003, 06:48 PM

mbrown2:
I have ridden in a Stoker too, so maybe the ones you have ridden were not rigged right; BS level or not, the ones I have ridden in, turned better than a Ski Nautique tournament boat. This is just my opinion. Come ride with a psycho and I'll show you what I mean. You'll piss your pants if you ride with me. Maybe I'm a bit of an adrenalin junkie. I forgot to mention that the owners of the boats where hanging on to anything they could and praying to god I don't kill them. devil

HeavyHitter

06-26-2003, 07:50 PM

What ever you want to call them, they can get up and move.
23' Cheetah (http://home.earthlink.net/~wstoss/Pdrm0005.avi)

bigq

06-26-2003, 07:58 PM

hey Heavy,
Are you the one with the insane 23 with twin turbos? how fast was that pass?

Phat_Kat

06-26-2003, 08:01 PM

HeavyHitter:
What ever you want to call them, they can get up and move.
23' Cheetah (http://home.earthlink.net/~wstoss/Pdrm0005.avi) Once again I've been dubbed insane by all who know me. When they're going like hell they turn like a dream, in my opinion they're the best! However, when you're trying to make a sharp low speed turn... what a bitch. Once you get it down it's second nature. I've got it down but learning it can be a rough road. I suggest allowing overshoot to newbies. Jetboat guys will get it damn quick but for the outboard guys and especially the stern drive guys... it's a little odd for a month or so. I ran mine up and down the river till I got to be comfortable with it.

bigq

06-26-2003, 08:05 PM

HeavyHitter:
What ever you want to call them, they can get up and move.
23' Cheetah (http://home.earthlink.net/~wstoss/Pdrm0005.avi) Holly crap a 528 Hemi and 1124 Hp in a 23, DAMN!!
What drive is that?

jus a baker

06-26-2003, 08:33 PM

NICE!!!!

Skaterfast

06-26-2003, 09:01 PM

The Stoker 22 will turn better than it's sisters.Which means it turns better than any boat you will see or talk about on this site."A unanimous test team favorite".***boat magazine 2000.

Phat_Kat

06-26-2003, 09:18 PM

Skaterfast:
The Stoker 22 will turn better than it's sisters.Which means it turns better than any boat you will see or talk about on this site."A unanimous test team favorite".***boat magazine 2000. they haven't been in my boat yet :D

wntitall

06-26-2003, 09:32 PM

Please dont laugh at my stupid question, But I know didly squat about mod vp's!. How stable are they at higher speeds? comparable to a cat? :)

Phat_Kat

06-26-2003, 09:42 PM

wntitall:
Please dont laugh at my stupid question, But I know didly squat about mod vp's!. How stable are they at higher speeds? comparable to a cat? :) Extremely! In the case of the Sleekcraft SST(my boat) it's like taking a mach 22 and adding a foot in width. It's incredible. They just have a hard time packing air. They're just as fast as any cat on the market. The Baker SST and the Sleekcraft SST are, in my opinion, the best of the bunch ever made. The baker is a tiny bit faster because it's so much lighter. They the baker and the sleekcraft are pretty much the same boat but the baker hasn't got quite the beef. This has lead to so early stress cracks on my friends who have the boat but we do run our boats fairly hard. I have no visible cracks on the bottom of the hull because sleekcraft did such a beefy setup. I am still worried about doing damage though. The only crack that I've found is the one on the deck from us crawling across the deck trying to get the thing hooked to an anchor. But then again 150+ pounds on anything 3 times a day will do some damages after 23 years.

HavasuDreamin'

06-27-2003, 01:52 PM

Phat_Kat:
They just have a hard time packing air. They're just as fast as any cat on the market. Slightly contradictory statment there cheif. :confused:
Phat_Kat:
The Baker SST and the Sleekcraft SST are, in my opinion, the best of the bunch ever made.While both Baker and Sleek made good boats, you have to throw Stoker in there. These boats were, and still are frickin SWEET!
Phat_Kat:
The baker is a tiny bit faster because it's so much lighter.All of these mfg's. experimented with different layups and weight back in the day. Your statement is not accurate in general.
Phat_Kat:
The baker and the sleekcraft are pretty much the same boat but the baker hasn't got quite the beef..I disagree again. It was Stoker who was in tight with the Baker's before branching off and forming Stoker Boats. My guess is the early Stoker bottom design's were extremely close to that of the Baker.

HavasuDreamin'

06-27-2003, 01:57 PM

Phat_Kat:
oh by the way,
If you plan on making tight turns in one of these things... CANCEL THEM. Although they are not nearly as good at getting air under them as a cat they are far more sticky. This is where they make up for the lack of air. No matter how fast you go these things will stick like glue. Again, another slightly contradictory statement. If they stick like glue, they should turn better. devil What the heck are you comparing these boats to for turning purposes.....an F1? :confused: You compare a well set up tunnel against a V, hydro, or flat, and the tunnel will out turn the vast majority of these boats all day long.

KustomKlassics

06-27-2003, 11:32 PM

I agree. I have 20' baker tunnel and it turns like its on rails even at mid and lower speeds.
also, the Baker and Stoker are very very similar hulls, considering Baker and Stoker were partners for many years. When they split Stoker just started building his own version of the boat. As for beefiness, I can say from personal knowlege that Bakers are extremely tough boats. My neighbor has two ( a 18' & 20') . His first, the 18' which he bought new in '86 was in an accident. About a year after he bought it he was on the highway back from Mojave when someone cut him off. Brakes locked up, screaching tires, the whole 9. The boat comes flying off the trailer and smashes through the tailgate of his '56 chevy truck. The boat folds his tailgate in half and ends up in the back of the truck. Damage to the boat: aside from a clean dime size hole caused by one of the bunks being torn lose and the exposed bolt punching a hole in the bottom, NOT A SCRATCH. Nothing. After flying of the trailer, smashing through the tailgate and landing in the bed nothing happened to hte boat. Needless to say he was shocked and extermely impressed.

Freak

06-28-2003, 03:50 AM

I have owned a Sleek and Stoker. Those two boats have very different manners. The Stoker was a very nice handeling hull at all speeds (got 107 out of it) . The Sleek was twitchey and prone to blow overs...(got high 90's out of it with the same power) My setup was right. I had help from Baker and Jaco's.

Phat_Kat

06-28-2003, 05:47 AM

Once again these are my opinions and I do have somewhat high standards. I just couldn't get the rear of any of these boats to get up and get loose, it tended to drag. I never said stoker made a shit hull, I just said that I didn't get what I wanted out of it,

Stoked

06-28-2003, 06:42 PM

Phat_Kat:
I bought a 20'Stoker in 87 when Al was dominating the Mod VP circuit. The boat turned so hard it would make your brain move. The boat could pull a U-turn at 60mph. Sold the boat last year and lost $3K, Pretty good resale I would say.
I bought a new Stoker 224 HP500 last year, the morning of the HB trials it ran 100 on GPS, the magazine guys got 95. It handles rough water considerably better than the 20, and turns even harder. Stoker is a great guy to deal with, I could be wrong but I don't think anything can touch it, in it's class. Not too many boats are running 100 with stock HP500 power.

Phat_Kat

06-28-2003, 07:02 PM

Stoked:
Phat_Kat:
I bought a 20'Stoker in 87 when Al was dominating the Mod VP circuit. The boat turned so hard it would make your brain move. The boat could pull a U-turn at 60mph. Sold the boat last year and lost $3K, Pretty good resale I would say.
I bought a new Stoker 224 HP500 last year, the morning of the HB trials it ran 100 on GPS, the magazine guys got 95. It handles rough water considerably better than the 20, and turns even harder. Stoker is a great guy to deal with, I could be wrong but I don't think anything can touch it, in it's class. Not too many boats are running 100 with stock HP500 power. As I have stated again and again... It's just not as great as I had hoped for. My friend an I ran our Mod-V's today at big bear and yes you're right. I will give the stoker a goodie mark. But still it's not what everyone got me all pumped for. I'm saying this after riding in a sterndriven, 820HP, precisely built, stoker. My friend has the #'s and I think they were over 115. Come ride with me for a day and you'll run away screaming. I've made guys who are totally good for a rush,(ex:skydivers, amerature race car drivers, etc.) never want to ride with me again. I've had one guy try to kick my ass because he thought I was trying to fling him out of the boat when I was just havin a little fun. That is how "extreme", as my friends reffer to it, I am. I never step out of my bound though. If you want a scare come ride with me when I'm all hopped up on caffeine. Stoker builds a good boat but it just never got me all excited. The sleekcraft is still my favorite. We've built a hopped up outboard one that pulls about 107 and 110+ at the end of the day. The engine only lasts about 15 hours but it's still fun to go out a run like hell in the thing. So stop barking at me Stoker freaks!