BUILDING BOATS OVER SEAS

[RUN2RIVER]

I have a question, I am starting my own boating company (I have been in the industry for several years) and I am wondering what you guys would think of a company building their hulls overseas. I have done extensive traveling and in several different countries the technology (glass, laminates, labor) are just as advanced as in the U.S. The hulls can be built MUCH cheaper overseas than in the U.S. with better quality. For example to lay up a 26-27 cat with decalite wood, good resin/glass and vaccumed bagged would cost about 2,500. Instead of 10k+ in the U.S. Would you buy a boat knowing that the hulls were made overseas? Everything else would be done in the U.S. And the company would offer a 3 year warranty with the boat. Repair work (hopefully only gelcoat) would be done in the U.S. because of the time difference. If the boat was at the top of its class would you buy it or would the fact that it is made overseas keep you from considering the boat?

[spectras only]

RunRiver, already too much stuff made outside of us/canada borders for the reason you're contemplating building boats out side of the USA [to try to make them cheaper for the consumer],however you have to think of the future of many workers in your contry loosing jobs to foreign products.I don't even buy clothing that's not being made in canada or the states anymore.The quality of garments for example ,are inferior from India or China for that matter.Boats will be the same.Most of the Trawler type's are made in Taiwan for example.Nuff said from this penut gallery http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

[RUN2RIVER]

In response to your comment, the reason why I am looking to build the boats overseas is because of the quality/cost factor. I would much rather have a boat that has been bagged and laminated with all of the best material than some other company who does not use a bag or the best materials. There are a lot of companies who use the best materials, but do not bag their boats nor do they offer the option of bagging the boat. Very few if any in the 24-28' range. If done right a properly bagged boat will be laid up at 1/2 the weight and 2x as strong (not exactly but significantly). And since I am starting the company outside of the U.S. and not transporting existing goods to foreign companies, I will be creating jobs with the rigging, sales, interior, etc. inside of the U.S. And to be perfectly honest, many of the existing lamination/gelcoat jobs are being paid under the table to illegal immigrants (not all I know, but a good portion).

[ratso]

I'll get this out of the way now (not that i give a damn, but someones gonna ask). Are you going to make your own plugs, or will they be splashes off of what has been already proven here in the USA?

[RUN2RIVER]

I completely respect that question and I am fully prepared to answer it. In response to your question of will it be splashed NO!!! But, to be perfectly honest what I have done is to take some of the best bottoms, Skater, Spectre, HTM, and Tallon for speed, and Advantage, Carrera, and DCB for stability. I have had several studies done on what works and what does not work. I have taken the best ideas from the bunch to create what I believe will be the best overall bottom. No glass will ever touch another co's boat, but they will be drawn upon digitally on the computer to get a good combination. The deck will be original compltely. A digital skymatic (?sp) has already been completed and tooling will be occuring in May/June in Costa Rica. I am making my own plug and with any luck (PLEASE) I will have the boat popped out of the mold in Aug/Sept.

[ratso]

Cool. Any ideas on a name yet. Will they be all inboards or will you have outboard models too? I like how you seem to be very concerned about quality.

[Cole]

I have no objections with a boat being built over seas,i owned a clothing co. in the 80's and did a tremendous amount of mfg over seas with savings of 50% and over.You have to be competative!!!.Just make sure you have all your cost factored in with shipping,taxes, and most importantly quality controll!!If i can save a few bucks and be guarenteed a superior quality boat ..why would anyone say no! http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif Cole

[Cole]

One more question,who have you worked for in the past and the boats you plan on building??? http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif Cole

[HUFFPOWER]

usa,usa,usa,usa,usa,usa!!!!!!!!!!quit selling out the u.s. for jobs,i'm so sick of giving our jobs to china,mexico,india,etc..take care of those who will ultimately take care of you and your business!!!!!

[boatnam2]

you should just go to mexico,every boat shop ive been to has mexicans laying up the boats,you wont be taking to many jobs from usa workers but you sure may take some from the boat mfg's.

[Chestah Cheetah]

It would be nice to be able to buy everything made in the U.S., however, as long as there is competition in the market there will always be new players (such as yourself R2R). The new player must choose one of two avenues: cheap/lower quality or expensive/higher quality. On the other hand, as far as boat building overseas, I cannot comment on custom go-fasts but I do know that overseas doesn't necessarily mean lower quality or cheaper in the yacht community: You can go buy a Cheoy Lee (Hong Kong) for half the price of a Broward (U.S.) in the same size or purchase a Feadship (Netherlands) for double. What I'm afraid of is the negative affect immense competition may have on quality standards. The price point conscious builder will have to lower prices which in turn means lowering quality until they get hip to the overseas manufacturing trend that is sure to come along in the near future...............To answer your main question R2R, yes people will buy them!

[bigboy78]

This type of hobbie, I would say is a good old boy hobbie. I think that if people found out that the hull was made overseas there are a ton of other boats made in the U.S.A., plus what happens to quility control. Alot of people buy boats from certian manufacters because the owner has a hand in every boat that is built. I could go on and on but I hate typing and my spelling sucks.

[RUN2RIVER]

Thank you everyone for insight into the idea of building over seas. In response to the questions about outboard vs. inboard power I plan on having both options. I am a stickler for details and I plan on using DCB and Shiada as a role models in the sense that no matter what the customer orders, the boat will be built with sanitary rigging and machine work. The quality issue is not a problem with the boat being built over seas. The experience and tallent of other countries rivals the U.S. in every way. There will be very few options that I offer. Those options will be: stereo, tandem vs. tri axle trailers, graphics, and power. Included will be: Full hydraulic steering, Imco Fuel Valve, Stainless Steel braided lines, polished engine compartment, powder coated diamond plate in engine compartment, etc... Just pick graphics and engine and that is about it. I am not necessarily going to start out with simple packages, I want to only build HIGH PERFORMANCE custom boats. I want to max out at about 15-20 boats a year to ensure that quality is not being over looked for mass production. Not only that, it buggs me when you go to the river and see 100's of boats exactly like yours. I definitely have to say well done to DCB and Schiada because if you ever see those boats, you can tell that they take their time and do things right the first time. CONGRATS!
[ March 19, 2003, 09:11 PM: Message edited by: RUN2RIVER ]

[spectras only]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RUN2RIVER:
it buggs me when you go to the river and see 100's of boats exactly like yours. Run2River,take a look at my friend's boat [Kazulin 24] at the sterndrive reader rides,he has the same goals you're,except he's been in the boat building a little longer with lots of experience.I'm no way try to criticize your intentions,but skeptical about your plans of making a superior product much cheaper than the quality builders like Hallett,Schiada etc...! I don't know if those companies employ illegal immigrants or not ,it's not an issue in canada yet.Good luck with your future plans ,and keep us informed http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif

[froggystyle]

No, I wouldn't.

[future boater]

no i wouldnt.
heres the rason, as if you care j/k.
when americans get down to it WE have the same quality and craftsmanship if not better than ANY other country. i personally think that the american boat industry is full of the afore mentioned personality. on the flip side of the coin america is full of people who dont care and the quality of other such things reflects that. anytime you find someone who loves what they do you will see there quality.

[ratso]

RUN2RIVER: I think you are making more enemies than friends on this thread. Maybe you should RUNAWAYFROMRIVER if you are so down on it and go get a job in Hong Kong. I personally think you are blowing things way out of proportion. There are always going to be isolated incidents and I'm sorry you are always in the middle of them, but hey, shit just follows some people around...

[Cole]

Are these boats going to be .."GUCCI" boats or "fake rolex boats"...and no i wont be buying one now!!!!! Cole

[RUN2RIVER]

Well ratso, just to let you know you are the type of person that I take very little stock in what they say. You only wish that you could afford a boat that I am producing. Belive it or not, the quality of the boats made overseas rivals the best of the best produced in the U.S. and better than 95% of the manufacturers. I don't want to be like Eliminator and have the boats delaminate at high speeds. Eliminator has numerous wrongful death suits against them right now. I am up for building extremely high performance high dollar rides. I want to know that if the customer decides to do 130+ the boat will handle it. There are very few manufacturers out whose boat will be safe over that speed (nothing is without risk). Building the boat overseas will allow for the proper materials and best layups.

[future boater]

who do you plan on having build these boats, javier?, or is it juan?

[ULTRA28]

RUN2RIVER
Registered User
Posts: 24
Registered: Mar 2002
posted March 14, 2002 04:34 PM
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The hulls can be built MUCH cheaper overseas than in the U.S. with better quality. For example to lay up a 26-27 cat with decalite wood, good resin/glass and vaccumed bagged would cost about 2,500. Instead of 10k+ in the U.S.
RUN2RIVER
Registered User
Posts: 24
Registered: Mar 2002
posted March 18, 2002 10:50 PM
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Belive it or not, the quality of the boats made overseas rivals the best of the best produced in the U.S. and better than 95% of the manufacturers. I don't want to be like Eliminator and have the boats delaminate at high speeds. Eliminator has numerous wrongful death suits against them right now.
Run2river, I have stayed away from this one for obvious reasons, I'm somewhat biased on where boats should be built, but the statement about Eliminator have "numerous wrongful death suits against them right now" prompted me to respond. First of all you shouldn't come in here speaking of something you don't know to be fact, these suits you speak of are news to me. Second, if you truely are already in the boating industry and are planing on starting your own company, coming in here and slaming a competitor is not the way to get customers. Third, if you really think a 27 cat can be built with a quality gel coat job and quality materials, the right way,in the US for around $10K then I would like to know your secret, because it's not possible. If you think you're going to get your boats done overseas, who are you going to get to spray them for you? $2,500 doesn't even pay the gel coater. Have you figured in the cost of shipping? Only doing 15 to 20 boats a year won't even start to pay the overhead unless you mark up the boat to prices that exceed the companies you are trying to emulate. Why would anybody pay the same or more for your product built overseas as they can get a DCB for. At least he has an established name that merits the kind of money he charges, which by the way is not as out of line as everybody thinks. Dave needs to build 40 to 50 boats a year to turn a good profit, but you are going to do it with only 15 to 20, you must really have one hell of a plan. Good Luck. Hope to see you at some of the evaluations some day.
[This message has been edited by ULTRA28 (edited March 19, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by ULTRA28 (edited March 19, 2002).]

[RUN2RIVER]

Ultra I only talk about what I know is true and what is not. Currently Eliminator has 3 wrongful death suits against them and about 15 product liability lawsuits against them. Depends on the time of the season and what has/has not been settled. Ok to answer your question on how I am going to turn a profit with less boats being built; simple, keep product costs as low as possible. The glass/gelcoaters are BETTER than the U.S. it costs $675 to ship a boat by way of cargo vessel from Costa Rica to Long Beach. I own the building where I am going to rig the boats, and the rigger that I use is probably one of the best I have seen. He is amazing at all types of CUSTOM fabrication. Sub out for interior. Go to Designer they are the best out. I have enough contacts in the industry to get pretty much anything done.

[ULTRA28]

Do you know all the details of the suits? Probably not, anybody can sue anyone they wish in this country, that does not mean Eliminator is at fault, believe me I'm not saying it can't or hasn't happened, I'm just saying you shouldn't go around spreading rumours that might have no basis. If you think that real estate is the only factor in overhead, than you better rethink your plan. Don't forget tooling, advertising, boat shows, insurance, etc. Maybe the boat your going to build is going to be so much better than the rest you don't need insurance and you're going to splash somebody and your advertising is going to be just internet spam, I don't know, maybe it can work. As for shipping costs, you must have a much better shipper than us, last September we shipped a Ford Explorer (much smaller than a 27 cat) to Costa Rica from Long Beach and it cost $1,200. Again, good luck to you.
[This message has been edited by ULTRA28 (edited March 19, 2002).]

[deserteagle]

run2river,
If it wasnt for eliminator, cats and tunnels wouldn't probably have come as far as fast as they have today, in popularity and performance. They have put a lot of time and money into the developement and testing of all their daytonas. Your just another jealous jackass on here talkin shit about them. Your going to mold your business after DCB? what a ****ing joke, who do you think dave molded his business after? Eliminator obviously doesnt have the quality control dcb has but when it comes to their daytona hulls in my opinion they are second to none. Im not talkin shit about dcb, i like his boats and have been in many of them. Shiada who? The last 3 LA boat shows ive been to Shiada has had an unfinished 32 footer sitting there whats that all about? Perfection power boats, nice name jackass. Good luck making a living building 15 to 20 boats a year sounds fun. Honestly, people that can afford to buy a quality boat are not going to worry about saving a little money and going with some unkown, unproven company to save money because their hulls are made in costa rica..give me a break. Dont talk shit about proven companies on here. Why dont u try selling your boats in costa rica also.

[RiverDave]

Run2River, I like your idea of sending things overseas to save on costs.. Being that alot of the cost of a boat is the labor of putting it together I'm not really sure why you don't do that over there as well, and then ship the product back here as a complete unit. Unless the weight of a rigged boat would raise the shipping costs to the point where it would be cheaper to have it done over here.. Or not justifiable I should say.
I do have some concerns though, Your going over seas to save money on production costs, but your only planning one building a minimal amount of boats per year, in an extreme high performance market? It would seem to me that if you wanted to build 300 boats a year this would be a great idea as labor is so much cheaper, that it would then be profitable. But to build 20 boats a year, the plane tickets, cost of managing from different location, training of personal, etc.. Would eat up all of your profatibility. Plus the people that usually buy extremely high performance boats, I.E. DCB, Schiada etc.. probably won't be as receptive as ya think to having something built overseas..
If I were you, (My advice take it or leave it) I'd call up Howard Custom Boats, and talk to Gene Willen. See what he wants for you to take his Custom Cruiser 21 mold off of him.. I believe he only built 1 or 2 of them last year and it's not really a product he's pushing.. It's a high performance hull (like Schiada), take that mold down to Mexico (right on the other side of the border) and hire a guy with some fiberglass experience to train the mexicans how to lay up a hull. With that make an entry level SPEED SKI boat, that costs 50K instead of 90 K and you will probably sell more.. It's close enough you can keep an eye on quality, (particularly if your only making 20 a year) shipping costs are minimal and you've accomplished both of your goals without flying all over the dam place to do it..
RD
[This message has been edited by RiverDave (edited March 19, 2002).]

[DMB]

What an ass,let me ask you who else has law suits against them and of what nature.
How did they come about driver error or ? you have to blame someone so lets get litigious,you sound like a woman scorned what is really your problem with eliminator did they fire your ass for stupidity? Your thinking about starting your very own boat co so you figured you just let us know your going to be alot better than the KING of customs the co thats about 90 % responsible for the custom tunnel market,the same co that races thier own product offshore and wins races.
Your not even in the same catagory as the people you mentioned in your statements further I think your a f$%cken pussie for posting on this web site and testing the waters about your boat building intentions. Its going to be so much better than everything else available as of now, then just do it and show us.
Don't come on here talkin smack, who are you trying to convince us or yourself.
P.S. RD quit kissing his ass (whats up)
[This message has been edited by DMB (edited March 19, 2002).]

[ratso]

RUN2RIVER...Sorry if I struck a nerve there, but you come across as being a real DICK. I won't go into what all I own or how much money my businesses bring in (nunya) but I will tell you I've lost enough on divorces to buy a fleet of these boats that you "claim" you are going to build. By the way, could somebody give me a lift tomorrow... the F---ING YUGO IS BROKE DOWN AGAIN. RATSO...OUT!

[playdeep]

Instead of perfection custom boats why not call your outfit VIRAGE II. The hyperbole is somwhat similar............

[RUN2RIVER]

As you have said, I do not know the exact details of what lawsuits Eliminator has against them. The latest one that I have heard of, was an owner of a 36 daytona was offshore racing back east, they stuck the nose and the capsul shattered from the water comming over the bow. According to rumors Eliminator built this boat as a factory race boat, so they knew the conditions it would be operating under. The capsul was made of standard windshield plexyglass instead of impact resistant plexy glass. When the capsul shattered, the driver/passenger (not sure which) was badly cut and needed emergency medical attention. Supposidly the person who was hurt is suing Elim. for placing the wrong material infront of them and causing bodily harm.
I do have to say that Eliminator has been a huge influence in the tunnel boat area. There are very few that can rival them in that aspect : Skater & Tallon (to name a few). However they are taking standard production boats and putting in massive power. They are building production boats and not necessarily high performance rods. I won't go as far as saying that it would be like placing a blown engine in a master craft, but the boats are not built with the proper care (in my opinion) for high speeds. For some of the speeds that their boats are achieving, the boats should be vaccuum bagged, with different resign. Look at how Skater and Spectra build their high performance boats. Building the boats like a production boat is fine if you have no desire to go fast, but I would be a little leary about getting behind the wheel of their boats with big power. I completely respect Eliminator. Both Bob and Brent Leach are stand up guys. Numerous friends of mine have their boats with no problems, but I would never purchase one (personal preference). I don't feel nearly as safe in an Elim. as other boats that I have ridden in.
[This message has been edited by RUN2RIVER (edited March 19, 2002).]

[RUN2RIVER]

Ultra, if you have read previous posts in this section, you would have already noticed that I have addressed the issue of splashing. I DO NOT PLAN ON SPLASING ANYONE. To tool up a boat in Costa Rica is usually around 10k complete. To address the rest of your post, insurance I already have. Believe it or not it was cheaper to get my personal boat insured under manufacturers insurance than it was for me to go out and insure it under my own name. Not only that, I can write of the purchase price of the boat as a tax write off. (advertising and business expense). I have 1,000,000 liability insurance, 200k property replacement, and a 3,000,000 umbrealla for significantly less $ than if I put it in my own name with less coverage. I already have the corporation built and I do custom installations for various manufactures as a hobby. Basically I work for them as an independent contractor. Initially I do not plan on advertising in any boat shows or magazines. People have already shown huge interests in the company and I have assurances from these people that as soon as the boat comes out they want one. At present, 13 people have already agreed to purchase one if I decide to do this. (No deposits, I am still deciding if I want to do this).
In response to the comment that I am sounding like a "dick" I apologize. None of that was my intention. I just call things like I see them and being in the industry I am priveledge to a lot more information than the rest of the public. If I have offended anyone I apologize.

[DMB]

What exactly is the difference between regular plexi and impact resistant plexi.
And how many pounds per sq inch of impact resistance is deemed acceptable for offshore racing and what are the tests that they conduct to arrive at the proper impact requirements.
To say that Eliminator builds substandard boats for racing or high speed use in a blanket manner as you stated is complete and utter mindless word drool,your views and OPINIONS of any manufactuer truly have no value or essance of professionalism and truly reek of jelousy and bitterness.
Further your stiring of the proverbial bucket of shit has netted you nothing more than a bad reputation and a shit stained shirt and pair shoes. (you've Got it all over yourself)
Please take your pathetic half ass OPINIONS, and stuff them where the sun wont shine, and work your frustrations out in a more productive manner like professional therapy.
You have some serious issues to work out with yourself good luck.

[playdeep]

run2river,Powerboat mag(june 2001) Survival of the fastest.Bob Teague does a 127.1 lap in a 25 Daytona,top speed of all builders in attendance.Powerboat mag.(aug 96) Eliminator captures top speed (127.4) for the year tested.LOTO (shooters shootout) challenge a pair of Daytonas (25ft.& 26cannopied) run 122mph to capture class honors (single blown cat).NOW run2river name the only west coast tunnel boat builder to go back east and take on Skater,Spectre,et al in the ocean and win in APBA offshore.I truly admire you for trying to build a better mousetrap.Why dont you go build your new Virage uh I mean perfection power boat go to Havasu and look for some Daytonas to dance with?.Then come here and tell us all,how you did!.If and when you build somthing that kicks an Eliminators ass then come talk some smack.

[RUN2RIVER]

Playdeep, I know that Eliminator builds some fast boats. There is no doubt about it. I have said that Eliminator was one of the best innovators in the tunnel market. In regards to your comment about the Eliminator in Powerboat magazine, what they didn't tell you was that there was only one manufacturer that had their boat finish the test still in tact. Everyone else pushed the boats so hard that they either blew drives or motors. I would know, I was there for that trial. The manufacturers try to get the best #'s out of the boat and they don't care about breaking parts. Magazines don't publish the breaking of parts. Elim. does go back east and play with Skater where other manufacturers don't. That comes from a large marketing budget and good corporate sponsors. As for beating Eliminators, on average it happens almost every weekend. But you know what, THERE IS ALWAYS SOMEONE FASTER THAN YOU ARE!!! I can play with almost any single engine powered boat out there. No I do not do 130+ but on 5.2lbs of boost and pump gas I run 118 on GPS. I am sure that if I wanted to pump up the boost, switch to race gas, etc... I probably would be able to run it. With 1125 h.p. the boat would do 134.5. PROVEN!!! The engine could take more, but I am out for having a good time. I know that I will get beat by some twin engine boats and some single engine boats, but I just enjoy going out and having a good time. And if someone beats me, I say congrats.
In address to the comment about what does it take for safety plexi glass and regular plexi glass, I don't know. I do know that Skaters use authentic F-16 capsuls on their boats. Standard plexi glass can break very easily whereas the authentic capsuls won't. The authentic capsuls will break and stay together where the plexiglass capsuls will shatter similar to glass. Skater, Spectre, DCB, and others use the F-16 capsuls. No matter what, if something hits the capsul hard enough it will break regardless of the material, but a wave over the bow shouldn't cause a capsul to shatter and cut someone. Everyone makes mistakes, but learn from them, correct them, and move on.
[This message has been edited by RUN2RIVER (edited March 19, 2002).]

[RUN2RIVER]

Hey DMB just for your info, no I didn't get fired from Eliminator. I have never worked there, but I have been offered jobs there. But like I said I do this as a hobby. I have worked in the industry for several years and now I am still around, but not working for anyone. I love the industry, but you do have to put up with a lot of B.S. I like working at my own pace and not being pushed to get the boat done at a short deadline. If something has to wait because a part needs to get machined, then production stops. That is just the way I am. I don't cut corners, nor do I rush jobs to get them done. I have in the past when working for various manufacturers, but not anymore. Working on boats IS MY THERAPY. I take pride in my work and build each and every boat that I do to how I would build it if it was my own personal boat. Very few manufacturers do that. Some do, but most are in it for volume. Not me! It is an art to building a custom boat and I have become very good at it!

[DMB]

1st What kind of boat do you run.
2cd your bullshit is really starting to bleed thru your posts now.
3rd if you were there what boat mfg did not get an invitation tick toc tick toc.
If you don't answer we'll all know who and what your really about.
[This message has been edited by DMB (edited March 19, 2002).]

[RUN2RIVER]

All that you need to know is that I bought a bare hull from a manufacturer who produces a 26' cat. Since I have seemed to get a bad rep on here, I don't want to name them manufacturer because they have been really cool and I don't want any retaliation remarks aimed at me being pointed to them.
The answer to the invitation I don't know. I do not work for Powerboat magazine so I am not aware who they invited and who they didn't. I know that the Carrera 257 Effect X was the only boat that finished the trials with their parts in tact.

[Blown Sleek]

One of the greatest debates I have read!
I agree all over!
HEsus or jesus or hoolio or havier!! Anyone here wanna work for the same pay as them? I am hiring!! I will hire you first! Any takers for 5 dollars a hour? By the way I want higher quality work than Eliminator and the rest. But not willing to pay more than 5.00 under the table. No I do not supply breathing apperatus either! Any problem with three headed bambino's? Someone here is joking!??!

[Blown Sleek]

Changing my mind sorry. I think he has a Force. Enough said.KERSPLUGE!!!

[DMB]

Ok what kind of engine and outdrive set up are you running to achieve 118 mph on 5.2 pds of boost,gear ratio,prop size,heads,block cid,static compression ect.

[playdeep]

r2r,If you were in fact at the Powerboat trials and you are in fact a part of the industry then the abscence of a prominant builder did not strike you as odd.Curiosity did not force you to ask about a missing builder?

[playdeep]

r2r,If you were in fact at the Powerboat trials and you are in fact a part of the industry then the abscence of a prominant builder did not strike you as odd.Curiosity did not force you to ask about a missing builder?

[future boater]

i will not only am i a better worker then juan, but, ive been laying up boats for years. by the way you should see my gelcoat abilities, no two are the same. but i want 5.10 an hour and benefits.you knoww like drinking on the job...

[future boater]

how about it blown sleek,partners? you can trust me im your freind.ha ha lmao

[RUN2RIVER]

Ok what kind of engine and outdrive set up are you running to achieve 118 mph on 5.2 pds of boost,gear ratio,prop size,heads,block cid,static compression ect.
Engine: Blown 572 Merlin, 14-71 blower, Twin Gary Williams 1200 CFM dominators, Superchiller, Dart Pro 1 CNC heads, Stelling Dry headers out the back, Keith Eikhart raw water pump, MSD 7-AL ign, Aeromotive Fuel Pump, Initial compression is 8.25:1
Drive: B-max outdrive w/ 1.30 gear ratio, spinning a 34 pitch prop that has been labbed by Hill Propellers.

[DMB]

Ok lets go at this another way,what MFG was not there that in your god like OPINION should have been there.
And what exactly is the point of your stating that only one MFG finished intact is this to say because somthing broke thier a substandard builder and the victory is somehow a false statement of facts.

[RUN2RIVER]

That is not what I am saying at all. The manufacturers that were there overall builds a nice product, but the reason why they go to Powerboat and ***boat trials is for publicity. They want their boats to show off what they can do. For example instead of using a b-max which eats up power, they run a bravo. They know that the bravo wont last, but they run it anyways for the speed passes. They risk blowing up parts for a good show. Everyone does. Just like if a custom motor was built the manufacturer will discound the power somewhat to make it look like the boat runs faster with less power. It is common in the industry and I am not saying that the people up there build substandard products, but they blew up parts to get the big #'s that they felt were needed.

[playdeep]

DMB,SLEEK,check the IP of run2river against some of the more vociferous pro Force posts over at the "force 29 great price thread".Nice call Sleek.

[RUN2RIVER]

Play just to let you know I do not own a Force cat. Keep guessing

[DMB]

Thats alot of motor and and a alot gear and prop.
I bet that same set up in another boat might produce the same results or better.
By the way what lobe center do you prefer on a blown application.

[RUN2RIVER]

couldn't tell ya. I didn't build the engine. Boostpower did.

[DMB]

No shit they do this to sell boats, bastards
And who would be most famous for this type of sales tactic.
You still have not answered my who was not invited question.

[RiverLife]

This is better than Survivor. Are we gonna start voting people off!? jk.
I'm having to read my Hot Boat glossary to keep up with this soap opera...... you are all more knowledgeable than I am!! damn it. L, L, L, ..... Lo, Lo....... Lob, ..... ahh, here it is Lobe!!! What the hell is a Lobe center, I'm guessing it has nothing to do with my ear!?!? http://free.***boat.net/ubb/tongue.gif

[Chestah Cheetah]

Originally posted by RUN2RIVER:
I have 1,000,000 liability insurance, 200k property replacement, and a 3,000,000 umbrealla .................I already have the corporation built........................as soon as the boat comes out they want one.................. At present, 13 people have already agreed to purchase one if I decide to do this. (No deposits, I am still deciding if I want to do this).
WTF? That's like making a sandwitch for yourself while still undecided if you're gonna eat it or not.
BTW, I'm guessing you have an American Offshore!
[This message has been edited by Chestah Cheetah (edited March 19, 2002).]

[RUN2RIVER]

HTM was the most notorious for switching drives in the middle of the tests, but they did it for good reasons, like you said to sell boats. I can not answer your question about who should be there and who was not there. I have been to numerous Powerboat/***boat trials and have seen and talked to the different manufacturers. I do remember that there was only one boat that finished though because of the title of the article. If you want to say that I am full of it because I cant remember who was and was not there, so be it.

[RUN2RIVER]

Nope sorry, not an American Offshore. And to make sense of that jumble you talked about, I started a corporation out of various benefits (insurance, etc...) I have been testing the waters and hoping for a serious response to the fact that I am undecided if I want to open a company and build boats over seas.
Using your sandwitch analogy, the sandwitch is already built. I have the connections overseas and the connections in the U.S. I had to make the sandwitch for financial reasons and now I am trying to decide if I am going to take it to the next level or not. I don't know. I don't know if it would be worth my time and effort.

[future boater]

"if you build it they will come"
whoops....

[DMB]

Correct, Its been fun,you ate shit in a couple of statements but you've kept up very well.
I must retire at this point,need to get some rest.
Check in on you tomorrow and provide you with some true information on certain things that were discussed tonight.

[RiverLife]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by future boater:
[B]"if you build it they will come"
Field of Dreams?
Wrong thread futureboater! hehehe

[RUN2RIVER]

Well thank you DMB for admiting that I at least know somewhat of what I am talking about. All B.Sing aside, I HAVE been in the industry for sevaral years and have been around all of the west coast's major manufacturers at one time or another. I do know my stuff when it comes to boats. When it is a dominant part (not just going to the river) of your life for years, you learn things that the general public does not know.

[LOWRIVER2]

Since I don't know shit about cats or their layups but a lot about LIABILITY, I'll ask,
R2R,
What news do you know about this incident with the canopies on the East Coast? Do you know the injured party or is this "word of mouth"? If you do know the injured person, what did the boat owner sign in the purchase contract as to what was to be made in the canopy construction? Since you've been around Eliminator, what is their response? I'd agree with others that one incident (only one you've come up with) is a lot less than "numerous" product failures. For anyone (including myself) who has spent time in the ocean at high speed to not think any boat can break from a whole host of situations involving "stuffing" it is ridiculous. If the construction materials were different than what was signed on, then the injured party has something, if not, forget about it. It's like selling a new dirt bike to a guy who then takes it to a stadium and jumps the thing 80ft. and lands short. Do you think all pressure from water coming down on a canopy is the same in every situation? I'd say no.
A word of advice:
You've been successful in keeping at least ten of us from NOT buying you're product. Come off a little more positive and productive over on the Offshore Only/other boards. Might actually find folks would be interested in your endeavors if you did'nt try to slam proven products out of the gate. I say good luck with any venture you do. I've just found it's better to go do something and show results up front rather than talk and talk about it without putting something up for others to see. Actions always speak louder than words. If you need to come here and ask us if it's good, I take that as you're not sure of it yourself. I know the men of HTM (Rest in peace) just went out and built their boats. In other words: Do it/show it/ back it
Enough said:
LowRiver

[landinglegend]

Originally posted by deserteagle:
run2river,
If it wasnt for eliminator, cats and tunnels wouldn't probably have come as far as fast as they have today, in popularity and performance. They have put a lot of time and money into the developement and testing of all their daytonas. Your just another jealous jackass on here talkin shit about them. Your going to mold your business after DCB? what a ****ing joke, who do you think dave molded his business after? Eliminator obviously doesnt have the quality control dcb has but when it comes to their daytona hulls in my opinion they are second to none. Im not talkin shit about dcb, i like his boats and have been in many of them. Shiada who? The last 3 LA boat shows ive been to Shiada has had an unfinished 32 footer sitting there whats that all about? Perfection power boats, nice name jackass. Good luck making a living building 15 to 20 boats a year sounds fun. Honestly, people that can afford to buy a quality boat are not going to worry about saving a little money and going with some unkown, unproven company to save money because their hulls are made in costa rica..give me a break. Dont talk shit about proven companies on here. Why dont u try selling your boats in costa rica also.

[landinglegend]

Originally posted by deserteagle:
run2river,
If it wasnt for eliminator, cats and tunnels wouldn't probably have come as far as fast as they have today, in popularity and performance. They have put a lot of time and money into the developement and testing of all their daytonas. Your just another jealous jackass on here talkin shit about them. Your going to mold your business after DCB? what a ****ing joke, who do you think dave molded his business after? Eliminator obviously doesnt have the quality control dcb has but when it comes to their daytona hulls in my opinion they are second to none. Im not talkin shit about dcb, i like his boats and have been in many of them. Shiada who? The last 3 LA boat shows ive been to Shiada has had an unfinished 32 footer sitting there whats that all about? Perfection power boats, nice name jackass. Good luck making a living building 15 to 20 boats a year sounds fun. Honestly, people that can afford to buy a quality boat are not going to worry about saving a little money and going with some unkown, unproven company to save money because their hulls are made in costa rica..give me a break. Dont talk shit about proven companies on here. Why dont u try selling your boats in costa rica also.

[DMB]

My concerns are little with what you know, although we did sift through to find out how knowlegable you really were.But more with your finger pointing.
Until you've sat behind the desk and applied your own standards and methods of operation, do not publicly question the methods of a reputable Co and the manner in witch there applied,as though you belong at the table with them because your still knocking on the door.
Your statements in regard to Eliminator are nothing more than parotted slanderous generalized and convoluted 2cd and 3rd hand mindless word drool.
Thru your coraspondance it seems as though your an intelligent individual,so I find it hard to digest your true intentions,the road that you took us down started out straight but then took a bitter turn Why? these are not the actions of a bussiness person but rather a scorned and bitter person.
I to have bullshited,ate lunch,hung around and done work for some of the best out there and have heard rumors about all of them, some true some just that,that guy splashed this guy,this guy used to work for me,he stole my ideas,that guy was screwing his partners wife,that guy went belly up and stashed all the molds and sold the shity ones at the BK sale.
Rumors and second hand information, how about you providing us with a descriptive history of the tunnel boat industry so we can all be enlightened and posses the strong and superior knowledge that you do.
[This message has been edited by DMB (edited March 20, 2002).]

[RiverDave]

LMAO... http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif
That post was the best one yet.. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif
DMB, I kiss no ones ass except yours, and that's only to get a ride.. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif
RD

[RUN2RIVER]

In response to your questions about how do I know about the lawsuits regarding the shattering of a capsul(and other suits), I heard about it from various people working for the company. I heard it from sales people and from people working in the shop. I personally have not seen legal documentation regarding the suits, but I feel that since numerous credible sources have proclaimed that they are true, they probably are. I did see the boat that had the problem and I was shown bits and pieces of the capsul while I was on my last adventure out to the shop. No I did not see any videos, but the capsul was still on the boat and jagged pieces were obvious. These sources are as close to the real thing as you can get. They are in the middle of things in the shop and know what is up.
LowRiver2 in regards to your comment about what did the owner sign for, that is irrelevant. In product liability law, "due care must be presented to keep consumers from harm." The guy told them that it is a race boat and they knew the conditions it was under. They did not perform their duties to the consumer. The best analogy that I was taught in school was that if a skill saw manufacturer made a circular saw and made the guard out of plastic to save costs, they are negligant if the plastic breaks and therefore liable for any injury resulting in the defect of that product. It is unfortunate and I don't want to dwell on it, but legally they are liable for the injuries caused by the capsul shattering. The defense would be assumption of risk, however it is clear that the product was deficient and caused bodily harm. The boat was fine but the capsul shattered. The capsul (in a race boat) is designed to protect a driver/passenger from the elements. It did not do that in this case.
Again I do have to say that I respect these other manufacturers for the technology they have created.

[RUN2RIVER]

In response to your comment about don't talk about it, show me...I have shown what I can do numerous times! I know I build a good product. I have done numerous boats for customers and have been an independant contractor for some of the major boating co's for years. I don't do the hulls, but from what I have seen overseas they have shown me that they build a killer product. What I have been trying to do is get a feel for the general public's opinion about building boat hulls in another country and building them in the U.S. nothing more! It is not a put up or shut up situation. If you try to spin it around and make it that way, you are badly mistaken and interpreting my words differently then they were intended to come across.

[DMB]

You just don't get it do you, go back to page onnneeeee read your posssstttsss and then continue and read the responsesssss,on to page twwwooo continue to read getting out of self,(breath and exhale) try to see clearer than your own eyes, and try to be less self centered and close minded, if you still don't get it,call a buddy and do it together.
Now have you figured out where you went wrong.
(A) Your not helping yourself by continuing this bullshit.
(B) Nobody likes you.
(C) Repeating the same thing over and over again expecting to achieve different results are the actions of a (crazy person) or a(Stupid Person) or maybe a severly retardededed person.
Get off It.
[This message has been edited by DMB (edited March 20, 2002).]

[RiverDave2]

Originally posted by RUN2RIVER:
In response to your questions about how do I know about the lawsuits regarding the shattering of a capsul(and other suits), I heard about it from various people working for the company. I heard it from sales people and from people working in the shop. I personally have not seen legal documentation regarding the suits, but I feel that since numerous credible sources have proclaimed that they are true, they probably are. I did see the boat that had the problem and I was shown bits and pieces of the capsul while I was on my last adventure out to the shop. No I did not see any videos, but the capsul was still on the boat and jagged pieces were obvious. These sources are as close to the real thing as you can get. They are in the middle of things in the shop and know what is up.
LowRiver2 in regards to your comment about what did the owner sign for, that is irrelevant. In product liability law, "due care must be presented to keep consumers from harm." The guy told them that it is a race boat and they knew the conditions it was under. They did not perform their duties to the consumer. The best analogy that I was taught in school was that if a skill saw manufacturer made a circular saw and made the guard out of plastic to save costs, they are negligant if the plastic breaks and therefore liable for any injury resulting in the defect of that product. It is unfortunate and I don't want to dwell on it, but legally they are liable for the injuries caused by the capsul shattering. The defense would be assumption of risk, however it is clear that the product was deficient and caused bodily harm. The boat was fine but the capsul shattered. The capsul (in a race boat) is designed to protect a driver/passenger from the elements. It did not do that in this case.
Again I do have to say that I respect these other manufacturers for the technology they have created.
What if I were to tell you that I know FOR A FACT that both a plexi canopy, and a F-16 Fighter Canopy will both shatter like a Coke Bottle? and that neither one will hold together like safety glass on a automobile?
OOOoooopppps...
What if I told you that I KNOW FOR A FACT that the F-16 Canopies were actually designed to shatter instead of hold together?
Would you admit to being slightly full of shit in your previous post? Not the one quoted but this one..
Originally posted by RUN2RIVER:
Playdeep, I know that Eliminator builds some fast boats. There is no doubt about it. I have said that Eliminator was one of the best innovators in the tunnel market. In regards to your comment about the Eliminator in Powerboat magazine, what they didn't tell you was that there was only one manufacturer that had their boat finish the test still in tact. Everyone else pushed the boats so hard that they either blew drives or motors. I would know, I was there for that trial. The manufacturers try to get the best #'s out of the boat and they don't care about breaking parts. Magazines don't publish the breaking of parts. Elim. does go back east and play with Skater where other manufacturers don't. That comes from a large marketing budget and good corporate sponsors. As for beating Eliminators, on average it happens almost every weekend. But you know what, THERE IS ALWAYS SOMEONE FASTER THAN YOU ARE!!! I can play with almost any single engine powered boat out there. No I do not do 130+ but on 5.2lbs of boost and pump gas I run 118 on GPS. I am sure that if I wanted to pump up the boost, switch to race gas, etc... I probably would be able to run it. With 1125 h.p. the boat would do 134.5. PROVEN!!! The engine could take more, but I am out for having a good time. I know that I will get beat by some twin engine boats and some single engine boats, but I just enjoy going out and having a good time. And if someone beats me, I say congrats.
In address to the comment about what does it take for safety plexi glass and regular plexi glass, I don't know. I do know that Skaters use authentic F-16 capsuls on their boats. Standard plexi glass can break very easily whereas the authentic capsuls won't. The authentic capsuls will break and stay together where the plexiglass capsuls will shatter similar to glass. Skater, Spectre, DCB, and others use the F-16 capsuls. No matter what, if something hits the capsul hard enough it will break regardless of the material, but a wave over the bow shouldn't cause a capsul to shatter and cut someone. Everyone makes mistakes, but learn from them, correct them, and move on.
[This message has been edited by RUN2RIVER (edited March 19, 2002).][/B]
I'll give you a heads up Run2River I work with aerospace engineers everyday and today I asked a couple who work for Parker Hannifin which I'm going to go out on a limb and say there a "little more reliable" then some boat builder whom doesn't know anything about plexi to begin with. If someone did file a suit I suggest they call the people that DESIGNED AND TESTED the F-16 capsules...
just my .02 but hey what do aeronautical engineers know?
RD
[This message has been edited by RiverDave2 (edited March 20, 2002).]

[spectras only]

There's one thing I don't understand about this capsule thing.Who would guarantee it against shattering/cracking if the boat is involved in high speed operation/racing anyway? I had my plexi/lexan reverse windshield exploded into smitherens ,when a [past]buddy of mine did a stupid act to cut front of me while putting his placediverter up to shower http://free.***boat.net/ubb/eek.gif us.This resulted one of his buddies suffering a cut in the forehead that required 16 stitches from the flying debris.There were literally 1000's of these windshields installed on california style boats with no problem ,as long people operate their wessels in a proper manner .Accidents happen while racing,all the time .Slamming a boat's bow into a wave at 60 MPH ,the bow acceleration reaches 12 G's , enough to rip a deck away from a hull at certain angles,let alone some canopies even 1" thick. If I bought a McLaren F-1 or a Lotec Sirius [1334 HP]going thrice the speed limit, hitting a bird and shattering the window injuring myself ,I wouldn't cry foul and blame the car's manufacturer for inferior glass material,because I took a calculated risk!
[This message has been edited by spectras only (edited March 20, 2002).]

[RUN2RIVER]

you know what spectras, I am in agreement with you. Now days people are so sue happy everyone needs to be extra careful. I agree asumption of risk is a big determining factor for a company to be liable. However there are different types of plexi glass. You described the standard plexi glass used on 90% of the boats out there and like you said it shatters. Safety plexy glass is more force resistant. It will break, but it takes a lot more force to break it. Whow knows, maybe the force of the wave would have shattered the safety glass capsul. No one will ever know. However when I get behind a race boat, I make damn sure that safety precautions are met. I wouldn't get behind a race boat with simple plexi glass. But the fact is, that this boat was equipped with standard plexi glass instead of safety plexi glass. Who knows why? Maybe they were out of it at the shop? Maybe it was back ordered and not available for the race? Maybe cost was a factor, etc... Any one of these things or all of these things could have played a factor in the injury. But the fact still remains that in this situation, the manufacturer did not exercise due care. Knowing that it was a race boat, they should have not released the boat or made the customer sign a waiver acknowledging the fact that the boat's capsul is standard plexi. I know that if this happened to me I wouldn't go after the manufacturer. I chose to race and it was my decision that got me hurt. However legally due care was not exercised and therefore grounds for a law suit was established.

[spectras only]

I haven't seen it yet,but if I built a true race boat canopy ,I would research the feasability of moulding a wiremesh reinforcement into the canopy/glass to minimize the size of shattered pieces.It could save a life after all.The remains of my windshield were sharp like a knife so it was pure luck it didn't do more demage to the guys face.Luckily my passenger was my [stupid] friend's friend, so he had to stand the heat,but as the owner of the boat I still had the burden of responsibility.

[RUN2RIVER]

What I have noticed on a lot of the race boats is that their canopies are actually 2 pieces of safety plexi glass bonded together with a very durable thin plastic membrane in the middle. This membrane keeps the pieces from flying all over the place. It is a good idea. If it brakes, at least it isn't going to come back and kill you, hopefuly.

[LOWRIVER2]

So R2R,
Just what are "race conditions"? (I'd sure like to see the attorney describe those in court). The issue of due care is mute as far as those canopies go. Not knowing the "whole or real" story from either the complainant or Eliminator, I will say it is highly unlikely Eliminator will take heat or pay out on this one. It still and always will come back to what was signed on the dotted line. This is'nt a massed produced circular saw, (and my saw does have a plastic guard,....hmmm?) this is a specialty product and most, if not all specialty products do not/will not fall under any sort of mass umbrella of an unsafe product unless numerous failures are reported. What others do you know of? And someone will need to know how many have been produced The suit would end up at the canopy co.'s door (if anywhere)and it would still have a lot of varibles up in the air. Another question, based on your expertise in liability, would a co. that produces a complete race car (ex. to NASCAR specs.) be liable if one part from another co. was put in the car and that part failed? Or would it be just the co. who made that individual part? Just curious, I think you know the answer.
Well, you say you've already shown us something. What boat did you build or improve? Seriously, let us, the boaters know about your past endeavors, What APBA or other race/pleasure boat have you personally improved? I'm not hostile here, just show us your products or inventions, it would have helped you to show us that stuff from the start.
LowRiver

[LOWRIVER2]

Another question:
Are you a current or former employee of Boostpower USA?
LR

[RiverDave]

However when I get behind a race boat, I make damn sure that safety precautions are met. I wouldn't get behind a race boat with simple plexi glass. But the fact is, that this boat was equipped with standard plexi glass instead of safety plexi glass.
Would you care to explain to me the VISUAL differences between Safety Plexiglass and Normal PlexiGlass? How can you tell just by getting in a boat if it's safety or not? Or better yet AVIATION or not? Please share the info with us "common boaters" so that we know what boats not to get into... http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif
Is anyone actually believing this guys bullshit?
Movie Quote - "My Daddy used to say, the less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect."
RD <--- I believe they call that the "SmackDown." http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif
[This message has been edited by RiverDave (edited March 21, 2002).]

[Rigger]

RuntoRiver Whats your e-mail? I know a crazy ass white guy that is building fish boats in the Costa Rica rain jungle. He knows a hell of a lot about building boats down there.

[RUN2RIVER]

No I am not nor have I been an employee of Boostpower. In regards to your comments about what boats did I build, I have built sevaral custom projects for very afluent individuals who desire a product that will take up too much of the manufacturers time or they are unable to do it. I have built sevaral HTM's, a couple of Spectra's (one 36 with twin 572's and one 30 with twin 575sc's), re-built a fountain (took out stock 500 hp's and put in twin 900sc's with #6's & re-rigged boat), I have rebuilt two Rayson Craft 27' boats, and sevaral drag boats.
As for the racing, I have been involved in offshore racing for some time. Being in the industry, you meet racers all of the time. Rique Ford, Crain Ferguson, Forrest Barber, Matt Alcone are some of the guys that I most admire. I have driven a couple of Skater super cats, numerous factory boats, etc. I choose not to race, but I go out for testing. I don't find competition fun on the open ocean, but running hard with no one around is fun. Long beach to Catalina and back is a blast. If I am getting in a boat that will do over 100 on the ocean, that thing better have a full capsule, oxygen, and racing harnesses. I have seen too many people die to risk running hard without the proper safety gear.
RiverDave, one thing is for sure, even it it wasn't safety plexi glass, I wouldn't get into a boat that's capsul is screwed in. That thing better be through bolted and re-enforced with glass!
[This message has been edited by RUN2RIVER (edited March 21, 2002).]

[LOWRIVER2]

Well there, you listed what you have done, would of helped you out earlier to go that route than bash a co., but I think you've figured that out.
As far as the glass, question still stands, What, in a general consensus, is "race ready", does APBA (if this boat was set up for that) have regs. on a canopy and what it's supposed to withstand, are "through bolted" canopies required on a certain class of boats? I think you answered my question of an attorney defining "race conditions" by saying what your minimum safety requirements are and I doubt the attorney would fare well. As said above, Elimnator more than likely will not take a hit unless it is listed exactly what "race ready" means.
My level III vest will stop a .44mag. round but will most likely fail if I take multiple hits from in the same area of the vest. There is literature from the manufacturer that covers this in my case and they would not be liable if that happens. The co. who makes my vest also makes it aware that use of armor piercing rounds will penetrate my vest, once again, they're free of liability. It's all in the details R2R.

[deserteagle]

Spectra or Spectre?
This guy is full of ****ing HORSESHIT

[MrHavasuCat]

I was thinking the same thing. the first time he spelled it "spectra" I thought it was a typo, But now I know it is not. I think he means "Spectre" since I don't think spectra builds a 36' boat.

[RiverDave]

Run2River, wait just a minute here. You talked about safety glass and plexi glass like you knew all about it.. Know everything from the material characteristics right down to how they flame polish it for clarity. Yet with a couple of relatively simple questions you change the subject to it not being through bolted? Would that glass on the eliminator had it been through bolted shattered still? What does that have to do with our conversation at all? If NON safety plexiglass (as you call it) was throughbolted in a big cat HOW CAN YOU TELL THE DIFFERENCE between safety and non safety?
I'm going to get to my point here right now, if enough water actually came over the bow of a 30' Eliminator to shatter that glass, odds are the front of the boat would've been torn off 50' back. Knowing a little about plexiglass I don't think you could break one of those windows with a dam firehouse. Now the little ones on daycruisers break easily for two reasons,
1. There considerably thinner
2. There shape and mounting positions (usually held at the very bottom with out much leverage) are not condusive to stress.
The canopies on these boats today have anywhere from 20-30 mounting bolts (all holding at different angles) securing it to the hull. The old daycruisers have between 6-8. With all this bullshit that's going around it really surprises me that Eliminator doesn't turn a fire hose on one and make a video. Would you care to explain to me how 1000's of gallons of water came over the bow of the boat? Are you sure that the plexi didn't break when the guys head went through it, from the boat slowing down so fast or something? http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif
Are you WILLING to admit that your full of shit yet? Atleast on the safety vs nonsafety plexiglass dealio? I mean you wouldn't get in a boat with normal plexi, but you admit that you can't distinguish the difference?
RD WWF-SmackDown.. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif
[This message has been edited by RiverDave (edited March 22, 2002).]

[MissHBjet]

If you want to start your own boat building company...Fine, but by coming on here and bashing Eliminater, its only going to hurt you, and make you look bad. If your a stand up guy then you dont need to go there. Right now, this lawsuit that you brought up with Eliminator is here say. Nobody cares that you HEARD there is such a lawsuit pending. Even if there is, there is 2 sides to every story.
Good Luck to you,
MissHBjet
[This message has been edited by MissHBjet (edited March 22, 2002).]

[DogHouse]

Originally posted by MrHavasuCat:
I was thinking the same thing. the first time he spelled it "spectra" I thought it was a typo, But now I know it is not. I think he means "Spectre" since I don't think spectra builds a 36' boat.
No, it's "Spectra", you know, the world's only twin 572/#6 SSM 150 mph day cruiser!
-brian http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

[spectras only]

It must have been a typo,cause everyone knows spectra never built a cat! Also R2R is interested in cats ,and spectre is cat country.

[DMB]

This guy is full of you know what,when I get some time I'll tell ya why.

[RiverDave2]

Are you WILLING to admit that your full of shit yet? Atleast on the safety vs nonsafety plexiglass dealio? I mean you wouldn't get in a boat with normal plexi, but you admit that you can't distinguish the difference?
I'm still waiting for an answer to my question..
RD

[ratso]

RiverDave2...If he gives a good answer to that, I'm gonna drink to it.

[HUFFPOWER]

let him build his rides overseas,i know i would not buy one,kinda like when mcdonnel- douglas was building md-80 aircraft over in china,that didn't last long.just think of all the stuff that comes from over there and how long it lasts.nuff said.

[RiverDave2]

Originally posted by ratso:
RiverDave2...If he gives a good answer to that, I'm gonna drink to it.
Hell I'll even go so far as to make a Toast to the response.. After the toast though I gotta give the backhand becuase it's all recoiled like.. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif
RD

[Charley]

How in the Hell did I miss this one??? heheheh its been a fun read.....Run2river is your 26' cat an open bow?

[RiverLife]

Charley, what did you mean by the e-mail you sent me? You confuse me!

[Charley]

what I meant was quite simply " DO YOU KNOW THIS GUY" on another thread he said that he had sent you some email... since this guy is kind of a mystery and seems to be stirring up the pot a bit I was curious if anyone knows him.... He won't come out and say his name..... sorry to comfuse just catting the mouse

[Charley]

what I meant was quite simply " DO YOU KNOW THIS GUY" on another thread he said that he had sent you some email... since this guy is kind of a mystery and seems to be stirring up the pot a bit I was curious if anyone knows him.... He won't come out and say his name..... sorry to comfuse just catting the mouse

[RiverLife]

Charley, Now you've got mail!
No I don't know him for any other inquiring minds out there!

[LOWRIVER2]

Guess R2R picked up his marbles and went elsewhere, maybe he's making a vacum bagged boat right now.

[ratso]

If a vacuum sucks then r2r must B**W.

[LOWRIVER2]

Ouch!
I was just thinking what a pain it would be to ship any kind of boat into the U.S. these days with all the security concerns. I could see customs agents now walking along each boat with a hand held Xray scanner and narco dogs slipping,scratching on that new gel coat in search of the bad stuff/ what a mess.

[Phat_Kat]

I was just curious if you could just build me a hull. No offence but I don't want to pay your high prices. Fact is I can get better deals on engines and such elsewhere. Either way I can get a better deal on the more expensive parts and was curious on how much a hull with a good paint job would cost from you?? It's a 26 foot or so CAT

[Skullinator]

on the canopy material situation that broke apart. Did,t some say in another thread that dcb on their F34 and Skater on all thier canopied boats actully use F-16 Mil spec canopies to protect the driver and passengers.

[78Southwind]

Interesting save for later

[Steve 1]

Hi everybody; I have worked overseas Designing and Building Boats (5 ½ Years three countries) However I never had the American Market as a Goal... Always Race or for the local market .Then we also built Patrol/Gunboats. Since we were in a Bad neighborhood!!
I will say this. If one were going to do that and want this market here it would be wise to use all the American Input Possible (Resins Gel coats Glass and Hardware) it will help going thru customs.
The thing is where I was a 20 Foot container cost like almost 5 Grand by the time it touched down at my plant... You need 3 months lead time No Problem I was looking 6 months ahead.
Now shipping back at least 5+ G’s for a 10 meter boat Plus customs and so forth. Best to ship back incomplete and finish here.
Labor Cheap!! Overhead Cheap...Phone, Electric Like free where I was... We used Sri Lankan Molders (Excellent BTW some trained in Japan at Yamaha) Indians (from India) Bangladeshis, Pakistanis... and so forth...
I have been there and done it,BUT An American factory setup right Good tooling and Etcetera Can Compete any day of the week!!. If we are looking at mid to high end NO Problem with anybody!!
Someone Mentioned Canopy’s when I built the first Jaguar composite Cat in 86 we were the first Open Boat with them...
Our mentality was not to cut them open so we spent a lot of time in the mounting good thing they kept the crew alive during a 122 MPH roll-over in the KW WC in fact we ran the race two days later.. We used to buy them from Ron Jones in those days He had the Texstar deal then..(funny story I will tell it if you guys want)
Now I had to watch a friend get killed in front of me when a Buzzi ribs canopy blew in (tandem boat) and he caught it in the throat bled to death. Really nice guy also..
A quick remark on your boats out there Very Beautiful!! Nicely done Guys.
My Best Regards