Help with distributor. Need your advice.

[stashtrey]

I've been having problems with my engine recently. I narrowed things down to either my fuel system or my distributor/ignition.
I just installed a fuel pressure guage but haven't had a chance to run the boat.
I remembered a while back when I took out my old breaker plate/points and converted to electronic..... I noticed a spring was disconnected under the breaker plate.
Today I took the distributor apart and sure enough... one of the springs that attaches to the mechanical advance weight is broken.
Could this be what was causing my boat to nose over and lose power at around 3800 rpm's? Would the absence of one of those springs cause the timing to be off at higher rpm's?
The motor runs fine at idle, starts okay and pulls a little out of the hole but once I get the throttle down it just gives up. The engine doesn't die.... just has no power and sounds terrible at high rpm's.
So... I'm trying to figure out if I can find a new set of springs to replace the old ones in my distributor..... or am I going to have to find a new distributor all together?
I'd rather just find a new spring and slap it in there if possible.

[Moneypitt]

The timing curve in a boat is somewhat forgiving when compared to a vehicle. The "curve" is not as critical, meaning that as the Rs come up the timing advances along with it to a certain point, and maintains that level. A good ballpark RPM is 3000, and around 32-36 degrees "total" advance. Check yours NOW, see where it is before changing anything. Using a dial back light, bring the Rs up to 3K and set the timing at 32*. After that, while watching with the light, bring the Rs to 3500, and see if the timing went above 32*. If it did find a new spring set, or a different dist, if it didn't test the boat again. Some performance boats run "locked" out timing, meaning it is at full advance, 37*-42* all the time.... Oh, and also check the float level in the carb(s), low float settings will do the same thing you're talking about. MP

[gochappy]

isn't there a whole bag of colored springs that came with that thing and you put in the color for your use?

[502 JET]

Who knows what the timing was doing without the springs attched.If you checked the timing with a light you would have seen it jumping all over. I would sh*t can that distributor and get a new one.

[stashtrey]

I checked the timing last weekend... while the spring was broken. The timing stayed steady and was set at 35 at around 3000 rpm's.
The funny thing is that the boat fires up well..... sounds good..... I can ram the throttle and the engine responds promptly and sounds good. I can sit with the engine at around 3000 rpm's and it sounds excellent and will run all day like that.
It's just when I floor it... the boat just loses all power. I can cruise along at 3000-3500 rpms and it sounds just fine.... but if I push it down for more power... there's nothing there. The engine starts to crap out.
After reading Moneypitt's comments.... I'm beginning to think that it's for sure a fuel delivery issue. Either the pump or some debris clogging my fuel pickups.
I fired it up for a minute about 10 minutes ago and the fuel pressure read right at around 4-5 psi......
I'm lost.

[502 JET]

Run the boat in the water and check the fuel pressure when the boat falls on its face.Install a clear in line fuel filter and see if you are drawing air or if it runs dry.

[Moneypitt]

4-5 is low. It should be around 6-7 at idle,(least demand), and MAYBE drop down to 4-5 under heavy demand. Another thing, when you turn it off does the fuel pressure drop instantly, or remain for awhile? It should remain for at least a couple of minutes...........If not, it is a sign of a weak pump and it should be replaced...........
I don't think your problem is in the dist. although it may have some issues, this problem isn't one of them.............MP

[stashtrey]

The pressure stayed for maybe 30-45 seconds. Good to know that the pressure at idle is too low. I hope it's just a matter of replacing the fuel pump.
Thanks!

[Moneypitt]

If you posted pump info I missed it. What pump, tank(s), pick ups, etc etc............AND where is the filter in relation to the gauge? ..........MP

[stashtrey]

Money-
Mechanical pump. The tanks are original in my 18' '77 Spectra. Fiberglass/fire retardent. There is no leaking or fuel smell from the tanks. I can't access the pickups. All I have is a brass elbow out of each tank that the fuel lines connect to.
The fuel lines from the tank meet at the rear of the boat and go into an AC fuel filter. I just replaced the filter with a Wix... then one line from the filter to the fuel pump.
I replaced all fuel lines.
The pressure gauge is right before the carb. I just put that in today.

[hondajoey]

another thing to check when your cap is off see if you have excessive play in the shaft of the distrubtor, we just changed my brother in laws that was having similar problems at the higher RPMS it was an old dual point that was walking around and ended up with the rotor making contact with the cap
just another thing to check

[Moneypitt]

Holley, Carter, Edelbrock??? The Edelbrocks I've played with were all low on the float settings from Edelbrock......Raised the float levels and got dramatic improvement in the top end........You MIGHT have a single tank problem, try shuting one tank off and running, if no improvement, try the other one. There have been wierd grimlins when feeding dual tanks to a single line, to the pump, etc etc. Use your next water trip as a process of elimination. I've even ran inboards from a 2-3 gallon plastic can, plumbed straight to the pump, just to eliminate the tanks as the problem. I think you get the direction to go as far as narrowing it down, ONE step at a time..............MP

[78_omega]

I am having the exact same problem with my boat. Took it out last night, under heavy load no power, thought it might have been the coil breaking down under high rpm. Replaced the coil and took another guy out this evening, he watched the carb while I hammered it, found low fuel pressure under heavy load, I am installing an electric fuel pump in the morning with a pressure reg. and retry in the evening, I am hoping it takes care of it, I will keep ya posted. If you come up with something different please keep me posted..Thanks Phil

[stashtrey]

I just put an Edelbrock 750 marine carb on it. I would have thought it was maybe the carb as well.... but it did the same exact thing the last time I ran it with my old Holley on there.
The rotor/shaft does have a bit of play in it. I'd say I can move it a 1/4" back and forth. It doesn't move easily.. but I can turn it with my fingers.
hondajoey- What do you mean when you say the rotor came in contact with the cap?
I go back and forth in my mind thinking it's the fuel pump.... then I start thinking about something else. I just wish I could go for a nice day on the water and have my boat run like it did last year! :cry:

[78_omega]

What it sounds like to me is that the fuel pump can't keep up with the demand for fuel. The fuel pump fills the carb. bowls, and the accelerator pump delivers fuel to the engine. Under high rpm, once the accelerator pump sucks the bowls dry you lose power, if you let sit and idle your pump will overcome the small demand for fuel and begin to fill your bowls, and then you should have another short burst of power..

[stashtrey]

I hope you are right, Omega!
I'm gonna get out after work tonight and see where my fuel pressure is at when I open it up.
Thanks for all the help, guys. I'll most definitely be reporting back when I get this all figured out. I feel like I'm very close.
This isn't a good hobby for my marriage. I've been getting on my wife's last nerve with this boat. $100 here.... $300 there....

[78_omega]

I have went and am going through the same thing you are with the wife, I bought the boat last spring on a wimm, "sometimes it's easier to talk them in to keeping it than it is to talk them into buying it".Since I have bought the the boat the engine blew up twice, the first time the guy that I bought it from never primed the motor on build up, the second time the machine shop installed the wrong valve springs for the cam. It's been a long haul for me as well. The two best days of your life are the day you buy your boat and the day you sell your boat...

[stashtrey]

Wow.... I think I'd be a single man if I had two motors blow up.
I agree on the statement about the two best days.... although one could argue that one of the best days is the day you buy the boat.... and the next best day is the day your wife suddenly wants more horespower!
I'm holding out for that day.....

[Moneypitt]

I just put an Edelbrock 750 marine carb on it. I would have thought it was maybe the carb as well.... but it did the same exact thing the last time I ran it with my old Holley on there.
The rotor/shaft does have a bit of play in it. I'd say I can move it a 1/4" back and forth. It doesn't move easily.. but I can turn it with my fingers.
hondajoey- What do you mean when you say the rotor came in contact with the cap?
I go back and forth in my mind thinking it's the fuel pump.... then I start thinking about something else. I just wish I could go for a nice day on the water and have my boat run like it did last year! :cry:
1/4" play? you mean rotation, right? That is the advance rotation, and it should move EASY, AND SPRING BACK............Sounds like the advance mechanism is rusted up! The play you have to look for is sideways, and there shouldn't be ANY. What kinda motor is this again? Maybe borrow a dist for a quick testo testo. It seems this thread keeps adding stuff to figure out.......MP

[hondajoey]

1/4" play? you mean rotation, right? That is the advance rotation, and it should move EASY, AND SPRING BACK............Sounds like the advance mechanism is rusted up! The play you have to look for is sideways, and there shouldn't be ANY. What kinda motor is this again? Maybe borrow a dist for a quick testo testo. It seems this thread keeps adding stuff to figure out.......MP
What MP said we had side to side slop not rotation slack, the bronze bearings in my Inlaws distrubutor had seen better days and had enough slop to make the rotor hit the contacts inside the cap and damage them. when they are right the rotor only goes by the contacts inside not hitting them as the rotor spins inside the cap.

[stashtrey]

Oh no... no side to side play.... I can just 'twist' the rotor a tiny bit.
Tell me about adding things in this thread. It seems like one thing after another!
I have a new mechanical holley fuel pump coming tomorrow. I'm thinking it's the fuel pump.
Cross your fingers for me!

[rerfert]

Cross your fingers for me!
fingers Crossed
Hope thats it.
I managed to get my jet out Sunday (about 30 mile round trip) and for the most part it went well,Just a few minor things and Have to still dial in the carb and timing. I'm getting closer though.

[Moneypitt]

Oh no... no side to side play.... I can just 'twist' the rotor a tiny bit.
Tell me about adding things in this thread. It seems like one thing after another!
I have a new mechanical holley fuel pump coming tomorrow. I'm thinking it's the fuel pump.
Cross your fingers for me!
The advance "twist" should be easy.....and spring back nicely. If it doesn't, something is wrong with the advance............MP

[stashtrey]

Guys-
Installed new fuel pump today. Got a nice Holley marine pump off some guy on eBay. Brand new in box for $59!
I put it on after some grunting and adjusting of the 'clock'. Fired up the motor and got over 7 psi at idle... up from the 3-4 psi I had with the old one on there. Also... it holds that pressure for over a minute after I stop the engine.
I have to believe that this is my problem. Will be taking the boat out tomorrow and I'll report back.
Thanks for all the help and advice. I know my threads have probably been annoying on here but I'm learning and will always be the first to offer up help to future noobs like myself.

[502 JET]

If you didn't throw your old fuel pump too far:Check the pump arm and the spring.Push the pump arm in like the engine would it should be hard to push in and spring rite out.The pump arm should not flop around or push in easy.

[Moneypitt]

Guys-
Thanks for all the help and advice. I know my threads have probably been annoying on here but I'm learning and will always be the first to offer up help to future noobs like myself.
Never...Anyone that is annoyed can just not read or respond. I personally read and respond if I think I can offer any ideas/opinions as to what the solution might be to an "annoying" problem. Challenges and problems are what make the world go round. This forum is one of a kind, with so many knowledgable people that may have experienced exactly what you're going through. A simple process of elimination, one step at a time will usually solve the mystery, and most here are always ready to point you in the right direction as to where to start. It is rewarding to actually assist someone that wants to learn, listens to other's ideas, and uses those ideas and opinions to solve their problem themselves. Unlike $ome other$ that just "take it in" and pay $omeone to "fix it".........So how is that distributor??..........Ray

[stashtrey]

The distributor is fine from what I can tell. I bought an advance tune-up kit and replaced the broken spring with an identical one. Seems good to me.
How about fuel pressure regulator? I was reading the manual to my new Edelbrock carb and it says not to have any more than 6 psi at idle. I fired mine up briefly and mine was well over 6 psi... more like 7.5 psi.
Where does a regulator mount? How difficult is it to put one in? Is it simply a matter of running the fuel line from the pump into the regulator and then on to the carb?
I don't want to have too much pressure. I think the fuel pump I got is a high volume/high performance model. The inlet/outlet are 1/2" where the old pump was 3/8". I just bought 1/2" threaded fittings with 3/8 barbs on them.
I'm thinking I should invest in a pressure regulator but I have no idea where they mount. Any help?

[Moneypitt]

There are several ways to regulate F/P. There have also been threads that related problems with electric "deadheaded" pumps, meaning that if the fuel isn't moving through the pump, they overheat from lack if cooling fuel moving thru the vanes. The "hot ticket" seems to be a bypass system like is used on mechanical injection. This is a poppet relief valve with a 6-7 lb spring allowing excess pressure and fuel to be returned to the tank. This keeps the fuel circulating through the pump and when the fuel demand is high, the poppet closes due to the pressure drop, back off the gas, and the poppet opens again.....Follow? There are also multi port regulators, like the ones used with the holley blue pumps, that can be plumbed this way. To just deadhead an electric pump to a regulator may cause premature pump failure, cause they just don't seem to make them like they did 25 years ago.......MP

[stashtrey]

Interesting. However... I have a mechanical pump. Is there a small in-line regulator I can use? I'm just concerned about running too much pressure to that Edelbrock. It was over 7 psi and the manual says 6 is the limit. Should I be worried? Should I wait to test the boat and get a regulator or would I be okay going 1 or 2 psi over the manufacturer advised limit?

[Moneypitt]

Yeah, I forgot you're mechanical. You SHOULD be OK, but yes, there are small inline type regulators, usually 4 port, one in and 3 out. Plug one, and use the one to feed the carb, and another to plumb the gauge into.....It wasn't unusual for bone stockers to have 7lbs F/P as a normal deal. Maybe Edlebrock is trying to cover their ass in case you start to over power the needles and seats. I ran 2 1406s on my Olds without a regulator, and I think I had 6-7 at an idle, no problem. BTW, I DID have to raise the float levels in both carbs, quite a bit actually, another case if Edlebrock covering their asses. Check yours!!..........Ray

[stashtrey]

Right on. Thanks!
Another noob question.
Do I have to remove the carb to adjust the floats? I have the manual but it looks like greek to me right now.

[gochappy]

did this get fixed? if not is the filter before or after the pump?

[SmokinLowriderSS]

7 to 7.5 may be a bit high at idle, and you MAY need a regulator ... personally I think I'd run it a time or 2 and see if you get flooding problems first. My mech pump runs about 5.5psi at idle and pushes 9psi WFO.