Teague 800hp vs twin 2.5's [Archive]

SCOOTE69

10-21-2002, 06:36 PM

Im considering a dcb 22 or cougar 22. Ill use it for skiing and speeding around. My current option (assuming my girlfriend lets me buy a new, rather than used, boat)is choosing between a teague blown 800hp I/O or twin 2.5's. Dave says he can get both engine setups to plane in the low 20's, have the same holeshot, and same top end (around 115-120). I would not have to switch props (ski vs speed)or mix oil with the teague. Both will have a 1 year warranty. The teague is $5-10,000 more. The twins will give me a lot more room for people and skis. Please, you guys are really the only ones I can get really good and accurate info from. Any thoughts? Beer, fast rides, and skiing for any help! thanks so much.

25 Eagle

10-21-2002, 06:46 PM

I've never heard of asking the girlfriend before. Forget her and get whatever you want, personally I'd go for the twins. Good Luck

Donnie

10-21-2002, 06:52 PM

Scoote69.. you need to reword that whole LETS me buy new :confused: :confused: wink
I would go with the Teague 800..nothing like a BBC

SCOOTE69

10-21-2002, 06:56 PM

You havent met my girlfriend! :D Actually, I ask her input for my own good. She is a voice of reason to my wacked perspective. Im lucky to have her.

Donnie

10-21-2002, 07:12 PM

SCOOTE69:
You havent met my girlfriend! :D Actually, I ask her input for my own good. She is a voice of reason to my wacked perspective. Im lucky to have her.Yep I hear ya...seems like they allways have a way of bringing us back to reality :confused:
I have a whole yard full of toys,including a big blower motor,so I guess I can't complain too much :D
BLOWER MOTOR..#1 thats what ya need :D

SCOOTE69

10-21-2002, 07:24 PM

Donnie, how many hours do you think I can get out of the teague before it needs a partial rebuild--keep in mind I'll be doing a lot of stop and go and skiing which in some ways may be harder on a motor and drive than WOT. I hear I can get 200+ hours on the twins and then its a $5k fresh up. Im leaning towards the teague but dont want to thrw away money. Btw, anyone hear of tyler crocket marine in Michigan? Ive heard good things about them and they have a 740 hp motor for $16k.

Skaterfast

10-21-2002, 07:24 PM

Scoote69 you need to go to the thread posted below and read from the begining.It will tell you everything you want to know.For instance,outboards will go faster on less horse power,burn less fuel(even with twins),last longer,less noise,more room,easier to work on,no lower unit to blow up,less money to rebuild,go in shallower water,and much more.
Lets reveiw,800hp at 115mph or 560hp at 115.Hhmmm it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.
http://free.***boat.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=000365

Donnie

10-21-2002, 07:42 PM

Scoote I have about 250hours on my motor with two different blowers. It has been about a 150 hours since it was freshen up,bearings and head work.
If your thinking about a blower motor give Larry Peto in Tucson a call (Larry's engine and marine)
He is one of the best around.
I think if you are planning on doing alot of skiing with a big blower motor you might have some drive problems :(
But nothing sounds as good as a big blower motor :D

SCOOTE69

10-21-2002, 07:49 PM

Skater, you are absolutely correct: there is no debate that outboards give more bang for the buck in terms of hp/speed. Thanks for the link--I read that before I posted my question and learned a lot. In fact, I learned more over the past week reading these boards than I knew from 20 years of boating-- That says a lot about you all (and suggests that im one of those dingbat boaters everyone here loves to hate wink ). But, there seemed to be some disagreement. I never would have considered an I/O until dave said they now come with a full 1 year warranty and are just as reliable and bullet proof as an O/B. This is coming from a guy who usually suggests going with an O/B. After reading literally every thread on this topic and most every thread in cats, outboards, blower engine, and other forums, the bottom line consensous of the folks on this board seems to be:
O/B: cheaper, quieter, more fuel and hp efficient, second engine if first fails (unless I hit a jetskier and break em both), proven reliability, more room in boat.
BBC: better looking(personal preference), easier to drive and pull skiers than twins (but looses some sideways movement ability), no prop changes, no oil changes.
To me its a toss up unless 1 is a lot more reliable than the other or offers something I missed. Thanks again for your help.

SCOOTE69

10-21-2002, 07:51 PM

Thanks Donnie Ill give him a call. Maybe Ill need to go with a #6 or similarly beefy drive if i decide on a blown motor.

DEEZ NUTTS

10-21-2002, 08:49 PM

My fear with O/B is that when the tree huggers get their way your boat will be worth 10 bucks.

mbrown2

10-21-2002, 08:56 PM

SCOOTE69:
Thanks Donnie Ill give him a call. Maybe Ill need to go with a #6 or similarly beefy drive if i decide on a blown motor.You won't be able to do a #6 in that boat...you would have to go with Merc XR, Imco, B-Max, Teague Platinum, Max, etc...
My thought is go with the twins...more room in the boat..have you sat in one with an I/O..there is barely any room behind the buckets..and now storage for your ski stuff...the only drawback I see to the twins in getting in/out of the boat through the middle of the twins. You have to make sure that you watch folks around the props..I have a DCB 26 with I/O that I bought used...I love the sound of the blower motor, but big HP and drive maintenance can be expensive...Outboards can take the beating and will not break like the I/O's...so as long as you can live without the sound of the BBC, go with the OB's...That boat was tooled specifically for outboards at a time when DCB was still selling Skaters...once they got it tooled it became the 22 of choice for outboards...Go watch a 22 with OB's run and then watch a 22 with I/O run...the OB will air out better, and will have better performance numbers.

SCOOTE69

10-21-2002, 09:14 PM

Thanks for those thoughts--space and reliability are the 2 biggest concerns. Im getting old so I prefer quiet to blower sounds (although as I get older and even more deaf (its amazing how I often cant hear a thing my girlfriend is saying) wink I may prefer some more engine noise.

mbrown2

10-21-2002, 09:20 PM

SCOOTE69:
Thanks for those thoughts--space and reliability are the 2 biggest concerns. Im getting old so I prefer quiet to blower sounds (although as I get older and even more deaf (its amazing how I often cant hear a thing my girlfriend is saying) wink I may prefer some more engine noise.Don't worry about too much noise...the twin 2.5's will be just as loud as the BBC (since it has some hatch over it), but the noise will be different...some love the whine of the 2.5's; and others love the BBC...its just personal preference.

Skaterfast

10-21-2002, 09:40 PM

SCOOTE69:
O/B: cheaper, quieter, more fuel and hp efficient, second engine if first fails (unless I hit a jetskier and break em both), proven reliability, more room in boat.
BBC: better looking(personal preference), easier to drive and pull skiers than twins (but looses some sideways movement ability), no prop changes, no oil changes.
To me its a toss up unless 1 is a lot more reliable than the other or offers something I missed. Thanks again for your help.For your particular set up there should not be a need to change props just to go skiing.Easier to pull skiers?For one thing you will be hammering it to pull the skier up.Which means you will be hammering the outdrive.So that leaves mixing oil.So don't rule out the 225 promax motors.That's what I run on my 24 Skater and it will do over 100mph.I can hold the throttle to the floor all the way from the London bridge to Havasu Springs.Lets see a Teauge 800hp owner do that with no worries.You should see well over a 100mph with twin Promax power.Plus you will save even more $$$$.And If your worried about turning then you need to buy a Stoker.
115mph with 800hp or 560hp?Hhmmm.

25 Eagle

10-22-2002, 05:52 AM

Thought I read somewhere you could buy a extra year warranty on the 300's for $2500. Don't know if that goes for the 2.5 also. If so you could have no worries for 2 full years for $5000 extra. And like Skaterfast says, I don't think any BBC guys will hold the pedal down as long as you can with the outs.

Charley

10-22-2002, 07:01 AM

I personally like the looks of the outboards on the 22.... big ole blown Chevy's under a covered hatch of a 22 looks funny... if you go BBC look at the hatch options..... then again its your boat do what ever you want! wink

22TWIN

10-22-2002, 07:13 AM

Scoote69,my boat is a Cougar 22mtr with twin 280's. I chose this boat for a couple reasons.First,I wanted a 100mph boat.Secondly,I wanted something reliable.The boat's expensive enough without having to keep pouring money into it.When I was doing my research it seemed that in order to get 100 mph out of a BBC it required some serious hp's and in a lot of cases NO warranty.The twin outboards easily top 100 mph with no mods right out of the box and have a 1 year warranty and optional extended warranty.I have always owned BBC boats and love the sound but for this kind of performance I thought ob's were the way to go.Not to mention how much room I have in my boat.Besides, the whine that comes from the ob's at about 7000 rpm's is pretty cool too.It scares my wife much more than any BBC ever did.LOL :)

Brad Zastrow

10-22-2002, 07:16 AM

Been there done that. Go with the outboards! The 280's are a sweet engine that are easy on gas and are reliable as heck. Change props for skiing??? Not a chance. Even with the big props it will rip skiers arms off with the twins. I owned a 22' Rapid Craft with twin 260's. Now the really big difference is the cool factor with twin o/bs hanging on the back. I currently have a 35 cat with twin blower motors and a 30' cat with triple o/bs. The stares, hollars, pictures taken, and kids jaws dropping is 5 times as great in the o/b boat. The 22' Rapid Craft was the same way. At Poker Runs the o/b boat is frowned on somewhat by the big block crowd. When the flag drops we kick butt by running 110mph WOT with 4 people in the boat for 100 miles. I/O guys will not run WOT for more than a few minutes. Two strokes don't mind at all. :) :) :) :)

Brad Zastrow

10-22-2002, 07:28 AM

I just noticed a reply about adding a number 6 drive. The drive is what $35-40k? That is more than both o/b's alone. Banning two strokes? How many fishing boats and o/b boats (voters)are in this country? Ban? Maybe on select lakes in wacky California. Direct injection might be the course all "new" two strokes will have to go someday. A retroactive ban, not likely. Even old cars only have to meet the emissions of when it was built, not the current standards.

boatnam2

10-22-2002, 10:59 AM

i own a teague motor so im bias,but if i was getting the boat your getting and planned on skiing as much ass you say theres no way in hell would get a 800hp blown motor.and remember im a i/o guy.

boatnam2

10-22-2002, 11:00 AM

did you guys see teague on fear factor last night driving that boat.

SCOOTE69

10-22-2002, 11:33 AM

Guys, thanks for all the input! After more research and talking to some blower motor builders, it looks like twins for me. Everyone seemed concerned about putting an I/O drive handling 800hp through the rigors of skiing with the constant shifting from forward to nuetral to reverse. In the end, Ill go for reliability (I say that now but know that after the warranty is gone ill be setting up my twins with new ecu's, heads, and nitrous :cool: ) If I end up buying the boat from dave you are all invited for a ride and some beers. And feel free to hollar if youre ever in texas Ill be sure to show you how to get in a little trouble here.

TOBTEK

10-22-2002, 01:40 PM

SCOOTE69:
Guys, thanks for all the input! After more research and talking to some blower motor builders, it looks like twins for me. Everyone seemed concerned about putting an I/O drive handling 800hp through the rigors of skiing with the constant shifting from forward to nuetral to reverse. In the end, Ill go for reliability (I say that now but know that after the warranty is gone ill be setting up my twins with new ecu's, heads, and nitrous :cool: ) If I end up buying the boat from dave you are all invited for a ride and some beers. And feel free to hollar if youre ever in texas Ill be sure to show you how to get in a little trouble here.one word response......STAN'S!
TELL YA WHAT... buy mine thats in the mold rightnow from DCB, and I'll go buy Stan's at 40-45! I'll sign up for that right now!!!!!

mbrown2

10-22-2002, 02:09 PM

TOBTEK
[QBone word response......STAN'S!
TELL YA WHAT... buy mine thats in the mold rightnow from DCB, and I'll go buy Stan's at 40-45! I'll sign up for that right now!!!!![/QB]So Stan is now down to that price range? If so, that is a deal someone needs to jump on.

25Elmn8r

10-22-2002, 02:13 PM

What exactly is Stan selling? I have a buddy that is finally serious about buying! Let me know. Thanks

kab

10-22-2002, 02:19 PM

stan is selling a really nice DCB with twin 280's only 30-35 hours on the motors. You can see it at carismacars.com

SCOOTE69

10-22-2002, 02:22 PM

No, Stan is at 55k. Its just that Id have to spend about $10-15k to turn Stan's boat into "my" boat so that Id be hard pressed to go above $40k. Id rather spend 75k on a new boat and full warranty and have it exacly as I want it than spend 55k on a used boat (albeit in very nice shape for a 5 year old boat) with no warranty and not exactly what i want. Warranty is key to me. Im looking at a new cougar, a new dcb and stan's boat. All have many plusses. Im undecided.

Brad Zastrow

10-23-2002, 06:27 AM

If you add nitrous to the o/b's get a good engine builder ready or keep a spare powerhead or two. Some people will try to tell you "no problem" and make a sale. Don't do it.

Skaterfast

10-23-2002, 08:24 AM

I agree.You're nuts if you go with nitrous.But if you want to smoke one of your motors with 10 hours on it then go ahead.

HavasuDreamin'

10-23-2002, 08:50 AM

kab:
stan is selling a really nice DCB with twin 280's only 30-35 hours on the motors. You can see it at carismacars.comWow........that is a heck of a boat! Great Price!

Havasu Cig

10-23-2002, 09:16 AM

Even though I had a s#@t load of problems with my 2.5's I would say they would be a better option on a 22' boat.
The Teague 800 is a good realiable motor, just ask Carlos at DCB. He has a Mach 26 with the Teague motor and runs the thing wide open all the time. He has not had a problem yet.
If you were talking about a larger boat I would say go with the I/O or 300x's. But on the 22 the 2.5's would probably be the best choice.

shockwaveharry

10-24-2002, 09:52 AM

Brad Zastrow:
If you add nitrous to the o/b's get a good engine builder ready or keep a spare powerhead or two. Some people will try to tell you "no problem" and make a sale. Don't do it.Outboards aren't strong enough to handle a shot of Nitrous?

stinger

10-24-2002, 05:23 PM

Scooter, I guess that your girl friend is reading the responces right along with you. If she is just a girl friend then its your desision not hers. Dave at DCB is a great guy. He knows what hes talking about and will give you acurate information. Good luck on your decission.

Smokin' 72

10-24-2002, 05:35 PM

I would get the DCB with an 800. I have twin's and it's hard to pull a skier, yet mine aren't set up for skiing. The boat that would be best for you deal is a 26 with the 800. Even if you like the 22, the 26 is bigger and can take more of a beating in rough water during slow speed towing. Cougs aren't my Fav boat but, it is probably set up better. DCB is more of a racing boat than towing.

CMABadseed

10-24-2002, 05:36 PM

just wondering....i know the mach22 with a 377 and an imco short drive was up around 80+mph so as i remember. instead of feeding two clamp-ons, maybe think about a 575sc. it pushed their 28 to 83 mph. great motor and drive combo, i havent heard of anybody having problems with it. could probably use it for everything you need.
i think once they built a 22 with a Naturally Aspirated nascar motor built by RIOLO and a short drive that was well over 100 when they ran out of prop.
personally i think the I/O's are a little big in the 22 but who knows.

Smokin' 72

10-24-2002, 05:43 PM

I'm sorry, I missed the nitrous part. Quit watching Fast and the Furious. Nitous on O/B's is the dumbest idea I've ever heard of. If you want the I/O with nitrous, your lookin at a serious rebuild after a couple years. If you buy a teague that was built for just regular use and then two years down the road you dump nitrous in it w/o a rebuild with a stornger crank, cam, rods, and the good stuff, you'll be lookin' at your boat at the bottom of the lake. You'll blow the hell out of the motor.

Brad Zastrow

10-25-2002, 06:46 AM

Nitrous just does not work well on two strokes or 4 strokes very well. Makes lots of hp at the expense of engine life. Think about the hp of the 2.5L (280 HP)at 112 hp per liter! That would be like a 7.4L (454) putting out 828 hp naturally aspirated! I have witnessed a few 2.5 with N2O, some were pleasure and some were raced. None lived very long. Neighbor of mine just added a 125 hp kit to his 2002 Mustang GT. I told him it was a bad idea. He smoked a piston in a week. Rebuilt it and two weeks later destroyed the block, crank, pistons,.....

flyinbrian

10-25-2002, 07:06 AM

I can't keep my mouth shut any longer.
No disrespect intended, but a properly set up fuel system combined with a properly set up nitrous system and a well tuned and TIMED motor can make reliable horsepower at the push of a button.
I am no expert on the two stroke aspect, (Chuck Goodman is), but I am an avid believer in running it on four strokes. I think nitrous gets a bad name because people rush out and by the kit, bolt it on, and hit it. Meanwhile they aren't retarding the timing or feeding the correct fuel at the rate that the cylinders and pistons need it to keep from becoming ashtrays.
We've ran it on both street and strip cars for many seasons without trouble. We run bulletproof fuel systems, with good fuel, and timing computers.

HavasuDreamin'

10-25-2002, 08:27 AM

flyinbrian:
a properly set up fuel system combined with a properly set up nitrous system and a well tuned and TIMED motor can make reliable horsepower at the push of a button.
I think nitrous gets a bad name because people rush out and by the kit, bolt it on, and hit it. Meanwhile they aren't retarding the timing or feeding the correct fuel at the rate that the cylinders and pistons need it to keep from becoming ashtrays.I agree, a PROPERLY set-up NOS system can work well and not blow your motor. At the same time, I am sure that rebuilds will be needed more frequently than if you did not run the NOS. So you either need to be an expert wrench or know someone who is.....of course you could say that about any "real' hi-performance application.

Havasu Cig

10-25-2002, 04:59 PM

CMABadseed:
just wondering....i know the mach22 with a 377 and an imco short drive was up around 80+mph so as i remember. instead of feeding two clamp-ons, maybe think about a 575sc. it pushed their 28 to 83 mph. great motor and drive combo, i havent heard of anybody having problems with it. could probably use it for everything you need.
i think once they built a 22 with a Naturally Aspirated nascar motor built by RIOLO and a short drive that was well over 100 when they ran out of prop.
personally i think the I/O's are a little big in the 22 but who knows.IMHO the 575 is way overpriced (even by Merc standards). I would rather have a 500 EFI with a whipple. You will make 750 intercooled ponies as apposed to the 550 of the Merc SC motor for less $$$. Just my.02.
BTW: I still think the O/B's are the way to go on a Mach 22. If we are talking about a 26 my opinion is definitely different. :cool:

boatnam2

10-25-2002, 05:23 PM

whats gay about a 22 with an i/o is you get the hatch thats a foot higher than the boat.i hate the way that looks.

TOBTEK

10-25-2002, 06:50 PM

boatnam2:
whats gay about a 22 with an i/o is you get the hatch thats a foot higher than the boat.i hate the way that looks.I agree the huge rear motor cover is way GAY! gota get the outboards on a 22..what is cool is that COUGAR will put twin 300X's on their 22 ftr. That should haul some serious ass...

fat rat

10-27-2002, 01:26 PM

I have a Blown 21' Daytona with Lightning thru transom headers with a hatch.......but its flat and the headers and blower are exposed, I get a lot of compliments on it.....if you got it....flaunt it. :D :D :D

SCOOTE69

10-28-2002, 02:49 PM

22TWIN:
Scoote69,my boat is a Cougar 22mtr with twin 280's :) 22 Twin, any chance I can come take a look at your boat? I cant find a cougar 22 anywhere near texas and would be happy to buy you lunch/dinner/drinks if I could just look at your boat,or,if the weather permits, and you dont mind, go for a short ride. Im happy just to look at one.I can fly to phoenix anytime for the day. Of course if anyone knows of a boat closer to me that would be great!