BBC Snout Questions.

[dmontzsta]

Paul is working on my motor and we were talking about snouts. Basically, I have a 429 forged crank that has an enormous diameter and length 2" round and probably about 6" long. I have seen chevy snouts and they are very short. I was wondering what you do for blowers? My goal is to leave as much snout length as possible, in case I ever put a blower on in the future, I would not need to get an adapter/support. I have plenty of snout right now and dont want to cut it too short. It is already going to be a bit tricky since the Ford timing cover is wider due to the timing chain being in the correct place. :)
BTW: I am going through the troubles, cause I am running off the snout and want to use the common chevy power take off. Let me know if I do not make sense. I am just trying to find out some dimensions and though this would help me and Paul to throw it out here.
Thanks.

[rrrr]

Basically, I have a forged crank that has an enormous diameter and length 2" round and probably about 6" long.
Who you kidding? Your crank isn't even close to 6" according to Maxi. :crossx: :crossx:

[dmontzsta]

Who you kidding? Your crank isn't even close to 6" according to Maxi. :crossx: :crossx:
Nice try, I am still not going to show it to you. :)

[LakesOnly]

Dmontzsta, I've been thinking about this...
Forged 429 truck crank snout dia = 1.75"
BBC Rat snout dia = 1.61"
I think we will turn down the BBF truck snout down to the Rat diameter (and probably double-key it). This way, the common circle boat power takeoff setups may be used for your setup. In other words, the KISS ("keep it simple, stupid") aproach.
I'll be at Chowchilla this w/e and look at several LTO boat setups, take pictures, ask questions, etc.
Snout length will likely be determined after the shortblock is mocked up and installed in your boat, then modified as need be (but with future blower application taken into consideration). As another option, a sleeve behind the drive hub also may be fabbed so as to take up extra snout length...depending on how much the snout length factors into it's structural integrity for the application.
All circle boat racers/riggers, please chime in.
LO

[dmontzsta]

Here are some pics, since they always make a thread better.
http://www.dmontzsta.com/MiscStuff/MiscPics/429Crank/100_4093.jpg
http://www.dmontzsta.com/MiscStuff/MiscPics/429Crank/100_4095.jpg
http://www.dmontzsta.com/MiscStuff/MiscPics/429Crank/100_4099.jpg
http://www.dmontzsta.com/MiscStuff/MiscPics/429Crank/100_4101.jpg

[dmontzsta]

Dmontzsta, I've been thinking about this...
Forged 429 truck crank snout dia = 1.75"
BBC Rat snout dia = 1.61"
I think we will turn down the BBF truck snout down to the Rat diameter. This way, the common circle boat power takeoff setups may be used for your setup. In other words, the KISS ("keep it simple, stupid") aproach.
I'll be at Chowchilla this w/e and look at several LTO boat setups, take pictures, ask questions, etc.
Snout length will likely be determined after the shortblock is mocked up and installed in your boat, then modified as need be (but with future blower application taken into consideration). As another option, a sleeve behind the drive hub also may be fabbed so as to take up extra snout length...depending on how much the snout length factors into it's structural integrity for the application.
An circle boat racers/riggers, please chime in.
LO
I am definately in agreeance with keeping the 1.61" diameter.
Wouldnt the crank need to come out to be cut for length? then everything would have to be reassembled again? That seems like alot of work, unless I am missing something. :)

[LakesOnly]

Wouldnt the crank need to come out to be cut for length? then everything would have to be reassembled again?Motor will go together and come apart more than once during this build, Don.....
LO

[steelcomp]

I would leave it as long as it is now, and just machine enough of the end to fit the adapter. As large in dia. as it is, it's not goign to hurt anything being that long, and there's no need to go to the extra work, only to find later, that you cut off too much. Like you said...KISS.
Nice mess you're working in, there.

[dmontzsta]

I would leave it as long as it is now, and just machine enough of the end to fit the adapter. As large in dia. as it is, it's not goign to hurt anything being that long, and there's no need to go to the extra work, only to find later, that you cut off too much. Like you said...KISS.
Nice mess you're working in, there.
Leaving it long is a little scary. It will definately have to be turned to to 1.61" (bbc diameter) to accept the power take off. Now with that length, I would just be worried about twist and the risk of breaking the snout...then again, nobody has ever tried it. It is a good idea, I am going to look in to it more.
That mess is just storage for parts! :D I have 7 engine blocks, countless cranks, rods, pistons, heads. Actually this past weekend I was wrapping stuff up and tucking it away a little nicer. I am going to have to sell some stuff soon.
:)

[LakesOnly]

There are actually a few options here Don; 'Comps is not a bad one, as it will retain a greater amont of structural integrity at the snout.
I haven't looked closely yet at the components used to couple the driveshaft to the crankshaft, but it may be equally as possible to open the coupling device from 1.61" to 1.75 (that's just .070" off the ID of the coupler). The use the snout at full dia will be the strongest option out there for the Ford.
And of course, there's the Rat deal...also the Hemi snout option (1.53").
I should probably make a few points to those interested in chiming in, as far as what is pretty much already set in stone:
The Ford 429 Lima already comes with heavy duty double roller timing chain. This chain has been used sucessfully in several fuel altered cars that I know of. So, the BBF's 1.75" snout diameter will not be reduced to BBC rat all the way to the #1 main, because we intend to take advantage of the existing timig chain set with it's large ID crank gear...therefore, some structural integrity is maintained there (and the overall length of the snout is a bit misleading in regards to how much will be turned down).
We may consider the same with the 429 Lima's front cover seal, since it is an oem (existing/shelf) part. Fitment to a passenger car cover may be an issue/under investigation.
So this may leave very little of the overall length of snout that is actually cut down (if at all). And this, of course, makes the snout a bit stronger in effect.
Don, keep all your options open...it's certainly convenient to do what everyone else has done, but it is not mandatory and there may be other ways that are more suitable...and maybe not. We'll look at everything.
Back to porting,
LO

[dmontzsta]

There are actually a few options here Don; 'Comps is not a bad one, as it will retain a greater amont of structural integrity at the snout.
I haven't looked closely yet at the components used to couple the driveshaft to the crankshaft, but it may be equally as possible to open the coupling device from 1.61" to 1.75 (that's just .070" off the ID of the coupler). The use the snout at full dia will be the strongest option out there for the Ford.
And of course, there's the Rat deal...also the Hemi snout option (1.53").
I should probably make a few points to those interested in chiming in, as far as what is pretty much already set in stone:
The Ford 429 Lima already comes with heavy duty double roller timing chain. This chain has been used sucessfully in several fuel altered cars that I know of. So, the BBF's 1.75" snout diameter will not be reduced to BBC rat all the way to the #1 main, as we intend to take advantage of the existing timig chain set with it's large dia crank gear...therefore, some structural integrity is maintained there. (and the overall length of the snout is a bit misleading in regards to how much will be turned down).
We may consider the same with the 429 Lima's front cover seal, since it is an oem (existing/shelf) part. Fitment to a passenger car cover may be an issue/under investigation.
So this may leave very little of the overall length of snout that is actually cut down (if at all). And this, of course makes the snout a bit stronger in effect.
Don, keep all your options open...it's certainly conveneint to do what everyone else has done, but it is not mandatory and there may be other ways that are more suitable...and maybe not. We'll look at everything.
Back to porting,
LO
Thanks Paul. You brought up a good point on the phone, it stuck with me. "It is a ***boat, everything is going to be custom". :)

[steelcomp]

With it's dia, the length of that snout wouldn't bother me at all. What's going to be your weakest point is the fillet where the snout is turned down. Regardless how long you make it, be sure that it's machined with a generous (.125+") fillet radius. I would also leave everything else as stock as possible, AFA front seal, timing, etc. I'm assuming this uses the same type of spacer behind the dampner as the std. 385??? I'm guessing that due to the larger dia that the Lima cover uses a larger seal as well (the stock spacer would only be .125" thick with the 1.75" crank snout). Bummer you can't ues one of your trick front covers...or can you???
HHHmmmmmm :idea:

[dmontzsta]

Now that I look at it, it doesnt seem too long. That turned down portion might cause a problem, we will see how it goes.
Pauls cover with the 429 Truck seal hole would be perfect. :)

[steelcomp]

You're going to have to configure this so that whatever you put on the end of the snout will still have clamping force on the spacer. That may be your determining factor in how much you can/need to machine the end of the crank.

[dmontzsta]

Hopefully the power take off will fit over that portion on the end (after the radiused down part). If not, then the end of the snout might have to be taken down to that size.

[wsuwrhr]

That was my first thought. Bore the existing BB Chevy PTO out and rekey, easy deal, don't turn the crank to fit ANYTHING. Even double key it. I may know someone, who may know someone, who could take care of the PTO.
Don't turn the snout down at all if you don't have to. You may have to shorten it though. I would shorten it as much as you can if you are going to drive the boat from the snout, expecially if you are going to go blown.
Yea yea yea, I have heard it already from the Ford lovers,"people are using them fine as they are", "run a support", "everyone is doing it", "Dodges suck" yada yada yada. Whatever.
That long ass snout is just asking for problems. IMHO.
I am still scared when I see a Ford snout do to the excessive length. But hey, every maker has good and bad points. Ford has the biggest bore centers.
Brian
I haven't looked closely yet at the components used to couple the driveshaft to the crankshaft, but it may be equally as possible to open the coupling device from 1.61" to 1.75 (that's just .070" off the ID of the coupler). The use the snout at full dia will be the strongest option out there for the Ford.
LO