Bottoms Up!!

[steelcomp]

Well, here's the last of the "ugly" work to be done....the bottom. Got 'er flipped, and I hope to finish this weekend.
Here's a few before pics. Probably won't show any "after" pics. :idea: :cool:
There were only three of us, and it went flawlessly...took about 45 min. I lifted the bow off the trailer with my cherry picker, (just used a motorcycle tiedown and the bow eye) then two of us picked up the transom, and the other pulled the trailer out from under the boat. We set the transom down on a couple tires, then lowered the bow onto another tire. (didn't get any pics of that)
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729flip6.jpg
Then we just stood it up...just like standing a wall (framers will know what I'm talking about)
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729flip2.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729flip1.jpg
Only thing that went wrong is the dumbass that owns the boat didn't get all the fuel out of the tank...DOH! :rolleyes:
Once that mess was cleaned up, we scooted it to one side of the garage, and just lowered it down on another pair of tires.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729flip3.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729flip4.jpg
Simple as that.
Hull seems to weigh about 500#, give or take. I'm going to get some scales and find out exactly.
Just thought these might be entertaining. :D

[Wicked Performance Boats]

Thanks for the pics. Where did you find a scale? I guess 575lbs, from the pics. BL

[steelcomp]

Thanks for the pics. Where did you find a scale? I guess 575lbs, from the pics. BLRace car scales. Could be a close guess.

[UBFJ #454]

Scott - The pictures certainly help ... a closeup of the intake entry area (the last 3 ft. or so from the front ... dark paint/speed coat obscures the detail in pictures you posted) would help alot. Check your PM's.
jak

[HotDogz]

Do you have to support the stringers also to keep the bottom from sagging?
Getting ready to flip mine and you guys make it look easy.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

scott, you still aint done:D I know how it is bro! Alot of peeps think that its a walk in the park to straighten a bottom. I tell you what, I am going on 3 weeks on mine and its kicking my ass. It will be well worth the wait;)
396

[Squirtcha?]

Do you have to support the stringers also to keep the bottom from sagging?
Getting ready to flip mine and you guys make it look easy.
If you can get two cherry pickers, it's even easier.
My 98lb 4' 10" girlfriend and myself flipped mine this year. Just the two of us.
Boat flipping (http://jetboat.homestead.com/Kidsriding.html)
Looking good Scott. How bad is the bottom now? I wouldn't even know where to begin on a tunnelhull.
Alot of peeps think that its a walk in the park to straighten a bottom. I tell you what, I am going on 3 weeks on mine and its kicking my ass. It will be well worth the wait;)
396
Michael,
Doing the area outside the center two strakes made a huge difference in my boat. I haven't got it dialed in yet, but it's real obvious that the outboard areas can really affect the way the boat drives/handles.
I'd at least check em to make sure they're straight. Don't mean to add to your workload, but I was amazed at how much difference it made on mine.
SERIOUSLY!
I was able to take out almost 3 degrees of wedge and 3 degrees of up on the rideplate after doing these areas. All the wedging and rideplate angle was making up (covering up) for a F'd up bottom. Anytime you can convert the thrust to more forward than up or down, I feel like that's a good thing.
http://jetboat.homestead.com/slip_plate.jpg

[Cas]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729flip2.jpg
what's the dark spot midway up? did the bunks wear a spot thru the gel?
nice looking hull, btw.
damn, I wish I had a garage with that much space!

[steelcomp]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729flip2.jpg
what's the dark spot midway up? did the bunks wear a spot thru the gel?
nice looking hull, btw.
damn, I wish I had a garage with that much space!
Thanks Cas, I have no idea what that is from, but it's just a stain. Something on the bunk, I guess. And I'm about out of room in that garage!!!
Dan, Michael...the bottom is already straight, I just need to do the area in front of the intake, and re-finish the bottom. I need to fix some pretty good scratches and dings, and re-paint, then some speedcoat is in order. The area in front of the intake is critical, so that's where the focus will be. There, and the trailing edges.
HotDogs...I didn't do anything to support my stringers. They should be fine.

[Jeanyus]

The bottom of that boat look real familiar.
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/5859boatbottom.jpg
Post up how much it weighs when you figure it out.
I didn't do much bottom work, just swapped out the ugly trailer.
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/5859flyingboat.jpg
Much better
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/5859shinywheels.jpg

[steelcomp]

update after this weekend
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729100_0953.jpg

[steelcomp]

Another update. Just about 45 hours into this bottom project at this point. Finally got it into primer.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729100_0987.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729100_0982.jpg

[placecrafttim]

Steel, Whats your estimated guess on top speed with your new power? Just curious cuz my hull and power are very close.

[steelcomp]

Steel, Whats your estimated guess on top speed with your new power? Just curious cuz my hull and power are very close.
I haven't even got a clue. This thing is all new, and I don't know if some of the mods I've made have been done on a Bahner tunnel, so I'm just going to wait and see. Could be low hundred, could be in the teens. I'm more interested in getting this thing to ET.

[bp]

looks good scott. it'll be interesting to see it run.

[steelcomp]

looks good scott. it'll be interesting to see it run.
Thanks Bob....interesting to say the least. :idea:

[steelcomp]

Well, it's finally done, so I thought I'd throw up a few more pics before I flip it back over. Now I can start putting this thing back together. :D
Thanks for all the compliments guys. Hopefully be on the water in the next couple of weeks.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729100_1004.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729100_1008.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1729100_1010.jpg

[Wicked Performance Boats]

Go Scott go!!! BL

[Cs19]

Nice work Scott. Dont stop now, finish that thing up.

[Squirtcha?]

Very nice Scott. I'll be anxious to hear how much difference it made.

[promod]

what different material's are they using to make drop keels? :idea:

[steelcomp]

what different material's are they using to make drop keels? :idea:The drop keel in mine is part of the mold...you can see the drop from inside the boat as well.

[Gearhead]

Scott,
Sure looks like nice work! Any idea how far off (crooked/hooked, etc) the bottom was? As far as you can tell from pics... sure looks straight now! It will be interesting to see how well it all works as you have a nice engine.
How much drop is in the keel of a Bahner? I bet you measured it! Just curious.
Anyway... Good luck! Will you have her out by the 4th? Lot's of work, but if everything has been rigged previously maybe it won't take too long.

[steelcomp]

Hey Steven,
Thanks. The bottom on this thing was a mess. The biggest thing I found was tha the port side of the keel was 3/16" higher that the starbord side. You can see in one of the pics above that I'm building that side up with 'glass. Nothing was flat, and nothing was very straight. The drop in the keel had a left-to right wow in it that had to be straightened, and after raising the one side 3/16", it was no longer in the center of the sponson. That had to be corrected. I also built up all the rounded edges to a sharp corner, and the trailing edges, as well. Then there was the entry shape and blending in the intake.
It's definately straight now. I used a 6' long piece of 3 X3 X 1/4" alum. angle as my sanding block. :rolleyes:
The drop in the keel is 1.06".
Not going to be ready for the 4th. This is getting completely re-rigged since I switchced to a new Calgo, installed a Jetaway, moved the pump back 5", moved the motor forward 4" (and will have to change it to 5.5* as well), lowered the intake 1" and changed it from 4* to 5.5*. Also replaced the interior with race buckets, and moved them back 4" as well. (I went with the long steering xtension to get away from the dash.) Pump has new ride plate, new Dominator "big" bowl, new stainless BC by MPD, new AQ shaft and a new inducer. All the water passages got a lot of attention to detail and then speedcoated.
I decided a while back I wasn't going to rush this project, and I think I'll be glad I spent the time I did. I'm hoping to get the absolute most out of the 800hp. We'll see. Still have a lot to do, but I'm getting pretty jazzed. :D
Sure looks like nice work! Any idea how far off (crooked/hooked, etc) the bottom was? As far as you can tell from pics... sure looks straight now! It will be interesting to see how well it all works as you have a nice engine.
How much drop is in the keel of a Bahner? I bet you measured it! Just curious.
Anyway... Good luck! Will you have her out by the 4th? Lot's of work, but if everything has been rigged previously maybe it won't take too long.

[Cs19]

new Calgo, installed a Jetaway, moved the pump back 5", moved the motor forward 4" (and will have to change it to 5.5* as well), lowered the intake 1" and changed it from 4* to 5.5*. Also replaced the interior with race buckets, and moved them back 4" as well. (I went with the long steering xtension to get away from the dash.) Pump has new ride plate, new Dominator "big" bowl, new stainless BC by MPD, new AQ shaft and a new inducer. All the water passages got a lot of attention to detail and then speedcoated.
Good call on all that stuff.All nice parts and good ideas, it should be a runner!!
If it doesnt go low 9s in good air put it up for sale.
:)

[Gearhead]

Scott,
Basically you will have a new boat and it will probably be better than anything you could buy... unless CS19 sold his cheap! :) Man, straightening the bottom, moving the intake and engine locations!!! The whole balance has changed and you will surely see and feel the difference. Everything sounds great. I'll be real interested to see how it all works out!
Of course you know what your doing to me! You are making me wonder about the bottom on my old boat! I have really enjoyed working on the old thing and keep thinking I'll find a stopping point.... but now I wonder about the bottom. I've eyed the keel and it seems pretty straight... but have not actually placed the long straight edge on it. My boat is still a straight keel setup. I have to wonder the effect of the drop.
I did make a few changes between Memorial day and now. I put a little more engine in the boat and since it should run a little better as well as the fact the vacuum pump crowds the back seat... I pulled the back seat out and then fabricated a custom light weight ice chest mount out of angle... filled it full of holes, powder coated and then mounted it in the back seat location. Kinda cool, just reach around and get food or beverages easily from a 32 qt. chest. Scott Seastrum then whipped me up a new fiberglass can-am youngblood style air scoop and then flake designed it to match my old boat. I met him in Texarkana last night and picked it up from him as he was on his way to the Waco races. Of course I had to put it on last night and will try the new stuff out in a few hours!
Good luck on completing the boat and report back in as you progress....
Later,
Gearhead

[steelcomp]

I eyeballed my keel for 5 yrs. thinking it was OK...was I surprised when I flipped it over. The boat seemed pretty effecient before.
That sounds like a pretty cool setup. I'm thinking we need to see some pics, and some details on the new motor. From what I know after a few of our conversations, it's plenty stout. You know your motors, for sure.
Have fun this weekend, and be safe.Scott,
Basically you will have a new boat and it will probably be better than anything you could buy... unless CS19 sold his cheap! :) Man, straightening the bottom, moving the intake and engine locations!!! The whole balance has changed and you will surely see and feel the difference. Everything sounds great. I'll be real interested to see how it all works out!
Of course you know what your doing to me! You are making me wonder about the bottom on my old boat! I have really enjoyed working on the old thing and keep thinking I'll find a stopping point.... but now I wonder about the bottom. I've eyed the keel and it seems pretty straight... but have not actually placed the long straight edge on it. My boat is still a straight keel setup. I have to wonder the effect of the drop.
I did make a few changes between Memorial day and now. I put a little more engine in the boat and since it should run a little better as well as the fact the vacuum pump crowds the back seat... I pulled the back seat out and then fabricated a custom light weight ice chest mount out of angle... filled it full of holes, powder coated and then mounted it in the back seat location. Kinda cool, just reach around and get food or beverages easily from a 32 qt. chest. Scott Seastrum then whipped me up a new fiberglass can-am youngblood style air scoop and then flake designed it to match my old boat. I met him in Texarkana last night and picked it up from him as he was on his way to the Waco races. Of course I had to put it on last night and will try the new stuff out in a few hours!
Good luck on completing the boat and report back in as you progress....
Later,
Gearhead

[drysumpjet]

I see yours had air plates, are you putting them back? If so, what angle are you setting them at?
Some years back, I got the Tom Papp "bubble" retrofitted on mine. Part of this effort included legthening the air plates from 5" to 12", reason being the longer plate would "catch" water to lower the bow down if the boat starts to blow over.
Long story short, the hull wouldn't air out even though I had the plates adjusted up somewhat.
I'm not sure if where I ended up setting mine is the "textbook" fix, but it seems to "air out" with a 1/2 degree more up angle than the ride plate. Anotherwords, the rideplate is set at 2 degrees, the air plates are at 2 1/2 degrees.
Thoughts? Of course your results may vary! BTW, nice work!

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

The drop in the keel is 1.06".
Not going to be ready for the 4th. This is getting completely re-rigged since I switchced to a new Calgo, installed a Jetaway, moved the pump back 5", moved the motor forward 4" (and will have to change it to 5.5* as well), lowered the intake 1" and changed it from 4* to 5.5*. Also replaced the interior with race buckets, and moved them back 4" as well. (I went with the long steering xtension to get away from the dash.) Pump has new ride plate, new Dominator "big" bowl, new stainless BC by MPD, new AQ shaft and a new inducer. All the water passages got a lot of attention to detail and then speedcoated.
Wow, you did do alot of work. I thought that I was the only one doing a major makeover this season!!! I lust did removed a hook/new shaft/inducer/detailed bronze b impeller/ultimate wearring/new shoe/rideplate/top loader/railkit/reset intake/new interior/trailer resto/carb resto/. I know exactly where your comming from. Your doing a killer job. We are waiting to see some numbers from the biotch;);)
396

[steelcomp]

The plates will go back on, but I'm just running them at about 1/16" above flush with the tunnel top. I've heard everything from running them down to trap more air, to running them up, like you say. I have asked many people about why the plates are even on there, and never gotten a straight answer. I've heard a lot of supposition and guessing...and intelligently so, but none the less. I figure with them at pretty much flush with the tunnel, they're basically having no effect except to extend the tunnel past the pod. I have too many variables to worry about that I know what the effects are going to be. If I get everything dialed like I want, then I might start experimenting with the tunnels, and the first thing I'll do then, is,...wait a minute...I can't tell you that. :D
I don't understand the lengthening the plates to catch the boat in case of blowover. Most boats are well above the water by the time they actually go over. I don't believe the plates would ever touch.
I've considered that the paltes should run about the same as the ride plate, or as parallel to the water as possible, at speed. Thanks for your input...I'll definately keep it in mind.
What kinds of speeds/et's are you running?
I see yours had air plates, are you putting them back? If so, what angle are you setting them at?
Some years back, I got the Tom Papp "bubble" retrofitted on mine. Part of this effort included legthening the air plates from 5" to 12", reason being the longer plate would "catch" water to lower the bow down if the boat starts to blow over.
I've considered that the paltes should run about the same as the ride plate, or as parallel to the water as possible, at speed. Thanks for your input...I'll definately keep it in mind. What kinds of speeds/et's are you running?
Long story short, the hull wouldn't air out even though I had the plates adjusted up somewhat.
I'm not sure if where I ended up setting mine is the "textbook" fix, but it seems to "air out" with a 1/2 degree more up angle than the ride plate. Anotherwords, the rideplate is set at 2 degrees, the air plates are at 2 1/2 degrees.
Thoughts? Of course your results may vary! BTW, nice work!

[Gearhead]

I see yours had air plates, are you putting them back? If so, what angle are you setting them at?
Some years back, I got the Tom Papp "bubble" retrofitted on mine. Part of this effort included legthening the air plates from 5" to 12", reason being the longer plate would "catch" water to lower the bow down if the boat starts to blow over.
Long story short, the hull wouldn't air out even though I had the plates adjusted up somewhat.
I'm not sure if where I ended up setting mine is the "textbook" fix, but it seems to "air out" with a 1/2 degree more up angle than the ride plate. Anotherwords, the rideplate is set at 2 degrees, the air plates are at 2 1/2 degrees.
Thoughts? Of course your results may vary! BTW, nice work!
Drysump - What hull are you running? If it is the 18' Youngblood style hull like the one in your Avatar, you may try them from slightly up, to flush to possibly a degree are so down. When I was running my 18' Youngblood Unblown gasser back in the mid '80's, I did not have plates, but did have to glass in what we called "tunnel blocks" in the top of the tunnels. This was basically a curl down in the top of the tunnel that added lift to the tail of the boat. It was amazing to see what this minor change in lift in the tunnels would do to the overall performance. It also helped keep the "hop" out of the back of the boat from air trapped that could not get through by giving a little lift to let it have controlled pressure relief instead of the tail blowing out. I am talking about a boat that was running between 116 & 120, but tried some of this on slower boats that needed help with tail lift.

[drysumpjet]

[What kinds of speeds/et's are you running?[/QUOTE]
Sorry I didn't reply sooner, been away from the computer. I never timed mine, but had it up to 105 a few times, could have gone more but I'm afraid of the "violent shutdowns" I experienced with it in the past. For what it's worth, raising the plates with a 1/2 degree more "up" angle than the ride plate seems to have eliminated the "violent shutdown". Of course your results may vary, just something to think about if yours slams the nose on decelleration.
I agree on your thought regarding the longer air plate "blowover" prevention theory as the ride plate and pump still extends further back than the 12" air plates anyway.
Back in 97, several of us on the East Coast worked out a deal with Tom Papp whereas he sent out one of his staff to retrofit our hull's with the "bubble".
On mine, the extended air plates was part of this effort along with retofitting the low profile race intake and cutting "reliefs" in the sponsons.
Good luck with yours! Joe

[drysumpjet]

Drysump - What hull are you running? If it is the 18' Youngblood style hull like the one in your Avatar, you may try them from slightly up, to flush to possibly a degree are so down. When I was running my 18' Youngblood Unblown gasser back in the mid '80's, I did not have plates, but did have to glass in what we called "tunnel blocks" in the top of the tunnels. This was basically a curl down in the top of the tunnel that added lift to the tail of the boat. It was amazing to see what this minor change in lift in the tunnels would do to the overall performance. It also helped keep the "hop" out of the back of the boat from air trapped that could not get through by giving a little lift to let it have controlled pressure relief instead of the tail blowing out. I am talking about a boat that was running between 116 & 120, but tried some of this on slower boats that needed help with tail lift.
Yes, I'm running the hull in my Avatar which is an 18" Youngblood aka Condor. I understand the earlier versions of this hull did not come with air plates, mine is one of the later ones that came the air plates "recessed" in the top of the tunnels.
Very intersting tip about the tunnel blocks, almost sounds like adding a "hook" that's seen in a lot of older V hulls Thanks for sharing.
I had lots of bottom work done to mine(see my reply to steelcomp), ended up with a boat that suffered "violent shutdown"...until I raised the air plates up.
Joe

[ScapeGoat]

Air plates and bubbles?
can you guys post pics of this tech talk, wondering exactly what it looks like
thanks brian

[Marty Gras]

The "violent shutdowns" can be prevented by rebalancing the gross weight inside the boat, or a pop-off in the hand hole. If you really want to get the boat "aired out" without dropping the shoe/plate too much, fabricate some "side plates" for the traps. Make the side plates the same length as the 12" top plates. This will make the ENTIRE boat lift straight up, and bring on some major top speeds. You will need to make the "bubble" or "keel teardrop" deeper (1" overall) and longer (18" overall), but the width can stay the same. By extending the air traps, you will be able (and willing) to lessen the UP angle of the nozzle and PUSH THE BOAT FORWARD instead of up. These vertical "side plates" will also help keep the boat going STRAIGHT forward as it settles back into the water durring shutdown.

[drysumpjet]

The "violent shutdowns" can be prevented by rebalancing the gross weight inside the boat, or a pop-off in the hand hole. If you really want to get the boat "aired out" without dropping the shoe/plate too much, fabricate some "side plates" for the traps. Make the side plates the same length as the 12" top plates. This will make the ENTIRE boat lift straight up, and bring on some major top speeds. You will need to make the "bubble" or "keel teardrop" deeper (1" overall) and longer (18" overall), but the width can stay the same. By extending the air traps, you will be able (and willing) to lessen the UP angle of the nozzle and PUSH THE BOAT FORWARD instead of up. These vertical "side plates" will also help keep the boat going STRAIGHT forward as it settles back into the water durring shutdown.
Marty, thanks for that tip. The side plates sounds like a great idea. Would it help the ride in rough water too? Also, how far down do you suggest to drop the sideplates? Does the sideplates tend to "bow out" from hydraulic pressure? Thanks again.

[steelcomp]

The "violent shutdowns" can be prevented by rebalancing the gross weight inside the boat, or a pop-off in the hand hole. If you really want to get the boat "aired out" without dropping the shoe/plate too much, fabricate some "side plates" for the traps. Make the side plates the same length as the 12" top plates. This will make the ENTIRE boat lift straight up, and bring on some major top speeds. You will need to make the "bubble" or "keel teardrop" deeper (1" overall) and longer (18" overall), but the width can stay the same. By extending the air traps, you will be able (and willing) to lessen the UP angle of the nozzle and PUSH THE BOAT FORWARD instead of up. These vertical "side plates" will also help keep the boat going STRAIGHT forward as it settles back into the water durring shutdown.Is this something that's actually been done or just theoretical? What speeds are you talking about here? Do you have any pics of what you're talking aobut?

[superdave013]

Michael,
Doing the area outside the center two strakes made a huge difference in my boat. I haven't got it dialed in yet, but it's real obvious that the outboard areas can really affect the way the boat drives/handles.
I'd at least check em to make sure they're straight. Don't mean to add to your workload, but I was amazed at how much difference it made on mine.
SERIOUSLY!
I was able to take out almost 3 degrees of wedge and 3 degrees of up on the rideplate after doing these areas. All the wedging and rideplate angle was making up (covering up) for a F'd up bottom. Anytime you can convert the thrust to more forward than up or down, I feel like that's a good thing.
glad you have found the light. It's all in the little things that can add up to a huge gain. Now when you run with someone who has not done there homework you will be out front. Engine and pump are the easy things that everyone does. The rest of it is what made guys like HBjet stand out even with less power.
BTW, I no longer see stringer washers on the bottom of your boat. :)