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HBjet
12-12-2001, 09:34 PM
***Bouns Round***
Ok Guys, what Cat is this?
http://home.socal.rr.com/boatbutts/transom.jpg
And for those of you who want the origianl size image, because a little blurry hurts your eyes, here you go.
http://home.socal.rr.com/boatbutts/tran.jpg
HBjet
[This message has been edited by HBjet (edited December 12, 2001).]

CrazyHippy
12-12-2001, 09:48 PM
A red one... what did I win???
BJH

ULTRA28
12-12-2001, 09:53 PM
Looks like an HTM. From what I understand, they are the only guys running a cat with a vee center on their hull.

riverliver
12-12-2001, 09:58 PM
Warlock !

Hustler
12-12-2001, 10:08 PM
Looks like an HTM to me but then again I dont know shit http://free.***boat.net/ubb/tongue.gif
Hustler

bigq
12-12-2001, 10:39 PM
uuhh, Warlock, no wait.... a Hawiian, no, don't tell me.... an HTM. Dammit I give up, HB how bout that red pill now? http://free.***boat.net/ubb/tongue.gif

spectras only
12-12-2001, 11:15 PM
25 Warlock ?! HTM http://free.***boat.net/ubb/confused.gif

HBjet
12-13-2001, 08:24 AM
Score so far.
HTM: 4
Warlock: 3
Hawiian: 1
Come on guys, this should be fun, and easy.
HBjet

RiverDave2
12-13-2001, 09:53 AM
That looks like an HTM to me..
RD

rivercrazy
12-13-2001, 09:54 AM
I vote for the HTM also.

RiverDave2
12-13-2001, 10:04 AM
HBJet, you kill me with this stuff...
A little picture from HBJet on the next thread over..
http://home.socal.rr.com/boatbutts/HTM%20Splash.jpg
Granted the steps are redone, but it sure does look similar..
RD

MrHavasuCat
12-13-2001, 10:35 AM
Looks like a Warlock to me.

gimprvr
12-13-2001, 10:45 AM
I wonder if you ask Warlock what they would say VS asking HTM? I'm not trying to start shit but would they tell the same story

HBjet
12-13-2001, 11:35 AM
Ok guys & gal. No peeking, but here is another picture to help you out.
http://www.hollismotorsports.com/images/28sxt-3.jpg
Remember, no peeking, just look at the hull.
HBjet

Tom Slick
12-13-2001, 11:36 AM
It's not an HTM. Most likely it is a Warlock.

Chestah Cheetah
12-13-2001, 11:58 AM
It's a little lower profile than the HTM, I've never seen a grabhandle above the transom like that on an HTM,........plus it says Warlock right there on the side.....he he he

MrHavasuCat
12-13-2001, 01:50 PM
Well I guess Riverliver beat me to it, but that grab handle was the give away. They use the same one on there v's (my buddy had a 27' world class). I did'nt realize the bottom was the same as the HTM as far as the center pod is concerned. I have only seen them in the water.
[This message has been edited by MrHavasuCat (edited December 13, 2001).]

HBjet
12-13-2001, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by HTM Racing:
SPLASH CATS
The only manufactures that I know did not splash their cats HTM / Carrera / Eliminator / Tallon and a handfull of a few others. If it looks like another boat it most likely is...
So now I ask this. Is the HTM a splash of the Warlock SXT 28' cat? It sure as hell looks like it was to me. But if I'm wrong, someone please prove me wrong...
HBjet

Havasu Hangin'
12-13-2001, 02:18 PM
Mr. HBprop,
Does a similar bottom design philosoghy (I.E. a center pod for single engine applications) automatically consitute a "splash"?
Without measuring the running surface demensions (I.E. sponson width, length, depth, entry angle, strakes, etc.) and tunnel dimensions (I.E. pod size and shape, tunnel width, depth, entry angle, etc.)...can we really tell off a picture?
Or have you measured as well?
http://www.goldenplasma.f2s.com/forum/smilies/happy25.gif

RiverDave2
12-13-2001, 03:07 PM
Good Call HH. I will measure them the next time I get a chance but from the pictures it sure does look similar.. Look at the lifting strake in both pictures... http://free.***boat.net/ubb/wink.gif Pretty dam close.
HTM Racing is in active in the forums why don't you just ask them?
RD
[This message has been edited by RiverDave2 (edited December 13, 2001).]

HBjet
12-13-2001, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by HTM Racing:
If it looks like another boat it most likely is...
Hey man, I'm just going by what a professional boat builder says. That's why I'm saying for someone to prove me wrong. From what the pictures tell me, there the same (or very similiar)
HBjet

riverliver
12-13-2001, 04:45 PM
Warlock !!
The first give away is the rub rail on the HTM has an arch not straight like the Warlock
I win !!!! (next game)

riverliver
12-13-2001, 04:48 PM
Oh by the way HBjet the Fake or not game is great, thank's

HTM Racing
12-14-2001, 03:42 PM
Hi again,
Glad you put these pictures up, yes at a glance they do look similar, but lets take the time to really take a look. Start at hull by the bow, the warlock has a straight angle of attack where the HTM is (1)curved, the (2)leading edge is angled and on the HTM the (3) strake is shorter, and HTM's (4)strake is thicker and wider. The HTM hull at the (5)bow drops deeper than the first cut, and the (6) first cut is deeper towards the bow and (7) shallower towards the stern where as, on the Warlock you posted, it clearly is straight and the first cut is a box style. The HTM hull sides are (8) taller than the Warlock. Now between the (9) first and second strake the HTM cuts up and is in an angle where as the Warlock is straight. Look at the second strakes, the HTM cuts up to a (10) shallower back pad and the Warlock again is straight and the cut out is a box type. All the HTM strakes are (11) angled back and disipate into the next pads, nothing like a Warlock. The cut in the HTM pad on the (12) transom is deeper than the Warlock, and the (13) angle on the transom degree is angled out more. Well here is already 13 things from just looking at the pictures, lets pull out a tape measure and see what the other difference we can just find on the profiles!!! We will see if we can acquire a clear photo of a Warlock bottom, and post both bottom side by side. As you can already see the difference are already evident by just a visual. Ever remember going down the river and thinking you see an Eliminator but, once you go close and really looked it was another brand but they did look similar at a glance, same thing here. To an untrained eye and someone who does not work on the bottom of vessels it's easy to overlook these differences.. What is a splashed boat? A hull or deck that has been flipped upside down, rub rail taken off, holes filled, waxed and a mold made off of that hull or deck. And then that mold is put into production. As you can see in the pictures provided by River Dave that is a complete impossibility. Incidently, when a boat is splashed it gets smaller and smaller each time is's splashed, the HTM is taller and wider and more pronounced on all it's dimensions, the only thing smaller is the overall length.
Originally posted by RiverDave2:
HBJet, you kill me with this stuff...
A little picture from HBJet on the next thread over..
http://home.socal.rr.com/boatbutts/HTM%20Splash.jpg
Granted the steps are redone, but it sure does look similar..
RD

HTM Racing
12-14-2001, 03:46 PM
Hi Havasu Hangin'
YOU ARE 100% CORRECT!!!!! LOOKs can be deceiving. Ever see that perfect girl but once you check her out up close she wasn't at all what she looked like at a glance.
Originally posted by Havasu Hangin':
Mr. HBprop,
Does a similar bottom design philosoghy (I.E. a center pod for single engine applications) automatically consitute a "splash"?
Without measuring the running surface demensions (I.E. sponson width, length, depth, entry angle, strakes, etc.) and tunnel dimensions (I.E. pod size and shape, tunnel width, depth, entry angle, etc.)...can we really tell off a picture?
Or have you measured as well?
http://www.goldenplasma.f2s.com/forum/smilies/happy25.gif
[This message has been edited by HTM Racing (edited December 14, 2001).]

JETBOAT BRIAN
12-14-2001, 03:47 PM
Guess that settles that!

Havasu Hangin'
12-14-2001, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by HTM Racing:
Hi Havasu Hangin'
YOU ARE 100% CORRECT!!!!! LOOKs can be deceiving. Ever see that perfect girl but once you check her out up close she wasn't at all what she looked like at a glance.
HTM Racing- I've found that if you squint real hard, they all kinda look the same...
...no offence HTM Lady...
http://www.goldenplasma.f2s.com/forum/smilies/happy25.gif

rivercrazy
12-14-2001, 03:55 PM
If the hull being splashed is used as the plug to construct a new mold, how can the mold being created become smaller each time its splashed. I don't understand that comment.

HTM Lady
12-14-2001, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by Havasu Hangin':
HTM Racing- I've found that if you squint real hard, they all kinda look the same...
...no offence HTM Lady...
http://www.goldenplasma.f2s.com/forum/smilies/happy25.gif
HavasuHangin
How did I get brought into this one. This is the first time Ive been on this one today.Dude keep me out of it.Ive gotten enough crap trying to defend HTM. Ill let the guys deal with it.

HTM Racing
12-14-2001, 04:15 PM
HTM Lady your O.K., hang tuff.
Originally posted by HTM Lady:
HavasuHangin
How did I get brought into this one. This is the first time Ive been on this one today.Dude keep me out of it.Ive gotten enough crap trying to defend HTM. Ill let the guys deal with it.

RiverDave2
12-14-2001, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by HTM Lady:
HavasuHangin
How did I get brought into this one. This is the first time Ive been on this one today.Dude keep me out of it.Ive gotten enough crap trying to defend HTM. Ill let the guys deal with it.
HTMLady, welcome to hangin with the guys.. You gotta thicken up that skin a little bit, but other then that your doing fine I wouldn't sweat it..
RD

mrpumps HTM
12-14-2001, 04:24 PM
ALLRIGHT THAT DOES IT !!!!!!!!!!im trading my HTM SS24 for a bayliner 16.6 (MY MOTOR IN THE BAYLINER OF COARSE) now a new TOPIC bayliner at the races.... its a splash,the rules are not fair,fake gps speeds,put big hp in anything and it halls a$$ NOT!!!!!!!!!!

HTM Racing
12-14-2001, 04:26 PM
When we cought a company splashing our hull, they attached an L-angle around where the rub rail goes so there is a stopping point for the new mold which in turn makes the hull mold an inch or so shorter each time it is splashed. If you look at the decendants of the Tallon they are shorter or smaller each time it is splashed.
Originally posted by rivercrazy:
If the hull being splashed is used as the plug to construct a new mold, how can the mold being created become smaller each time its splashed. I don't understand that comment.

JETBOAT BRIAN
12-14-2001, 04:26 PM
SS 24 would make a nice x-mas gift!

HTM Lady
12-14-2001, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by JETBOAT BRIAN:
SS 24 would make a nice x-mas gift!
I agree any one out there want to buy me one?

HBjet
12-14-2001, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by HTM Racing:
SPLASH CATS
The only manufactures that I know did not splash their cats HTM / Carrera / Eliminator / Tallon and a handfull of a few others. If it looks like another boat it most likely is...
Originally posted by HTM Racing:
To an untrained eye and someone who does not work on the bottom of vessels it's easy to overlook these differences..
So what is it HTM Racing. I still don't think so bud! Your pointing out 13 different things, and I don't see one. I see how the strake is shorter, and then slopped angle in the front of the sponson, but don't tell me you couldn't make this minor changes. Like you said above, If it looks like another boat, it most likely is. Your hull is splashed, and I'm sticking to that story. Sorry bud!
HBjet

HTM Racing
12-14-2001, 08:51 PM
How about you show up with the boat in the picture, we will show up with the boat in the picture and you can bring your GPS and your Radar Gun and we will find out if the bottoms are the same technology.
You must tell us...how bad did you get beat by an HTM for you to get this bad of an attitude? Maybe you should trade your jetboat in for a Bayliner that comes with the optional windshield wiper so you can see through the spray.
Sincerely,
Darren
HTM Customer

DMB
12-14-2001, 09:14 PM
Uh Oh, I think his feeling,s are hurt,
HBjet Apologize right now!!!!!

HBjet
12-14-2001, 11:20 PM
HTM Racing, your not the owner, just a customer? I don't know where you are getting that I have a bad attitude just because I have an opinion. Just because mine and yours aren't the same, don't get your panties in a bunch. You are totally missing the point of this thread. You are all worked up, now your saying lets race, that's almost as good as telling someone to meet after school to fight. The point of this thread isn't who is faster, its where did the ORIGINAL HTM hull design come from. I've never raced an HTM, my boat is a totally different class. Also, I could give two shits about the hull there making today, it is totally different then their origianl hull. Let me make this clear, as other have too, I'm not here to bash HTM, they make a boat people like, and it is fast. I'm not here to say splashing is a no no and that boat that are splashed suck. I'm just saying, the VERY FIRST HTM sure as hell looks way to similar to a Warlock 28' cat to not be splashed. Now, I'm sticking to that story until I can see a picture of the first HTM plug (wood). If they don't want it posted, then I will take a little trip with RiverDave to HTM and we can see it in person. Now, as a boat builder who claims there boat isn't in some way splashed, should be able to back it up with no hesitation, and no problem doing so. If there is a problem, why? Whats is the big deal? Whay can't pictures of the original plug be found? If that happens, then I rest my case because it would be proven by default. Again, prove me wrong by the actual photos, not a drag race. You got to be F*&king kidding me with that one.
HBjet

Janky
12-16-2001, 12:41 PM
Can't we all just get along????

HTM Racing
12-16-2001, 01:48 PM
We have gone over this all before, we have already put to rest once, so we will just do this one last time. Apparently you can't see the major differences from the Warlock and the HTM photos, they are very noticable to the trained eye. Now you want more pictures, if we post them you'll still won't be to your satisfaction. So lets do this the right way, don't wait for the sand bar. You and RD need to call us and make an appointment to bring up a Warlock (if you can't bring one, bring templates of sides / transome / bottom / bow) We will lift both boats from their trailers. I can 100% guarantee you will not find one measurement / degree / angle / or angle of attack to be the same as a Warlock. The whole design of our boat is completely different. It is not in our best intrest to post photo's of our bottom and compromise it's safety allowing anyone to try and copy our design. We have no hard feelings towards you or RD and will be more than happy to meet with you and put this to rest...Well gentlemen the ball is in your court, let's get togeather and put this finally to rest. Here is some basic information for everyone, almost all cats are based from one of these three concepts (1) full tunnels, (2) box centerpod tunnels, and or (3)V- style tunnels. These base concepts are used as a starting point by almost all cat manufacturers to start their design process. In short if you put all the box centerpod concepts together they will look similar, as the same for the other two concepts. This does not make them the same, so pull out the tapes. Take a look at the beginning of Chevy and Ford, did they copy each others cars ? NO, but they used the same concepts of 4 wheels / doors / an engine / and they worked on their design versions which they felt suited their needs and the needs of the public. We are very busy and truly do not have the time to be on all these sites continually responding. We will check in occasionally but don't know when or how often. By the way our number is (661)268-1309
God Bless America and keep us safe, We hope everyone has a GREAT Holiday and a Happy New Year.