Berk "E" pump loader questions

[bighead]

I have a berk e pump with a AT AA imp,DPS inducer and stuffer installed powered by a mild BBC in a 21 foot open bow boat, it has just the rock grate on it and I am asking if adding a loader will help at all, like the SE version from Berkeley?? Current performance is top speed yesterday on gps 59.2 at 4300 rpm, it is great out of the hole too compared to the stock pump with a Berk A impeller that was not in bad shepr or worn and beat up at all when pulled apart and would spin 4600 rpm which may not have been accurate as the tach went bad right after all the pump work and would do a best top speed of 64 but was not nearly as responsive out of the hole.

[IMPATIENT 1]

if your still runnin a stock grate, yes the loader will help!it gives alittle lift to the transom and loads the top of the impellor,i'd recommend the mid level loader,ss loader.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

That tach sounds right. Last spring my mildly modded 454 spun my Berk A 4600 just after rebuild, and 4800 by end of the year as she loosened up. The build status should have been worth right at 350HP and that was reflected in the RPM. The AA does help acceleration, as you noticed, but hits you on the top end unless you have enough HP to compensate.
That 4600 RPM on an A equates to roughly 307HP.
Same 307 HP spins an AA to 4340 rpm.
4300 even is about 298HP, and a prog I have predicts 57 at that.

[bighead]

SmokinLowriderSS, thanks for the info, you have run #'s for me before and everything still seems ballpark for a 325hp stocker,now does the program tell you what gains you get with mods?? In my case the motor has the smog heads and I will be bolting up a stock set of 049's with roller rockers so just what kind of gains might I reasonably expect ??

[Rondane]

I have a berk e pump with a AT AA imp,DPS inducer and stuffer installed powered by a mild BBC in a 21 foot open bow boat, it has just the rock grate on it and I am asking if adding a loader will help at all, like the SE version from Berkeley???
why didnt the shop that did your work recommend a good loader grate to begin with instead of the inducer with a AA impeller?? Maybe this was what you requested as i'm not sure but your money was better spent on a good loader grate.
rondane

[IMPATIENT 1]

why didnt the shop that did your work recommend a good loader grate to begin with instead of the inducer with a AA impeller?? Maybe this was what you requested as i'm not sure but your money was better spent on a good loader grate.
rondane
i agree, i've seen alot of peeps have a inducer installed with no performance results.met a guy this weekend that had just had his done and he gps'd before and after with no noticable results,no harder holeshot or anything.this dude knows how to set-up a boat too.he had a ab imp,split bowl,stuffer and droop,inducer,divertor,ss loader.i smoked him from start to finish line with the same sj hull he runs with a 12je with a stuffer,ss loader,hi-tech shoe and ride plate kit,divertor,berk a,ulitmate wearring.we had about the same amount of power on the mills but i fed my pump better with just the loader alone.

[gregr1971]

thats strange, i have a fresh "JE" with the SS loader, A impeller, i can spin it at 5700-5800rpm, with an OLDS! i know those BBC's can do better! and my olds is getting real LOOSE from those rpm's.

[IMPATIENT 1]

thats strange, i have a fresh "JE" with the SS loader, A impeller, i can spin it at 5700-5800rpm, with an OLDS! i know those BBC's can do better! and my olds is getting real LOOSE from those rpm's.
better check your tach bro, unless your puttin out over 600hp with that olds you shouldn't be spinning that many. i just rebuilt my pump(myself) and i have at least 550hp on the mill,750hp on the juice and i'm turnin 5500.

[gregr1971]

i'm sure that the true rpm's are around 5500, it is a stout 455

[Taylorman]

i'm sure that the true rpm's are around 5500, it is a stout 455
5500 would be about 525 hp. What do you have in the Olds. I'd love to hear cause thats pretty stout for an olds.

[gregr1971]

taylorman, i'm not sure what is in it, i bought it as is, being said the engine and pump had approx 40 hrs on them, i went to a tunnel ram from a torker and actually lost about 300rpm, hp850, offy ram, fairly radical cam, K heads, on the internals, i dont really know the specs. i got the boat from P.O. claiming 80mph , turns out best i could get was 64mph, but i am not complaining, truth be known, the pump is probably on the loose side, and the boat could benifit from a big block chevy, got any big block chevy parts to trade for a complete olds???

[IMPATIENT 1]

taylorman, i'm not sure what is in it, i bought it as is, being said the engine and pump had approx 40 hrs on them, i went to a tunnel ram from a torker and actually lost about 300rpm, hp850, offy ram, fairly radical cam, K heads, on the internals, i dont really know the specs. i got the boat from P.O. claiming 80mph , turns out best i could get was 64mph, but i am not complaining, truth be known, the pump is probably on the loose side, and the boat could benifit from a big block chevy, got any big block chevy parts to trade for a complete olds???
KEEP THE 850 AND GET RID OF THE OFFY INTAKE,BUY YA A VICTOR JR AND SET THAT 850 ON IT,YOU'LL GET FASTER.

[Taylorman]

taylorman, i'm not sure what is in it, i bought it as is, being said the engine and pump had approx 40 hrs on them, i went to a tunnel ram from a torker and actually lost about 300rpm, hp850, offy ram, fairly radical cam, K heads, on the internals, i dont really know the specs. i got the boat from P.O. claiming 80mph , turns out best i could get was 64mph, but i am not complaining, truth be known, the pump is probably on the loose side, and the boat could benifit from a big block chevy, got any big block chevy parts to trade for a complete olds???
No Chevy part here. Unless you have some SERIOUS porting on those K heads and a huge cam, i doubt you have the power to turn an A impeller to a true 5500 that you claim your getting. Your pump must be loose or your tach is wrong. Keep the Olds, they are ok. Get ride of the tunnel ram and get you an Edelbrock Victor intake and use the carb you have now. It will run much better. Been there done that.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

SmokinLowriderSS, thanks for the info, you have run #'s for me before and everything still seems ballpark for a 325hp stocker,now does the program tell you what gains you get with mods?? In my case the motor has the smog heads and I will be bolting up a stock set of 049's with roller rockers so just what kind of gains might I reasonably expect ??
No, it doesn't, and I cannot imagine how it would. 2 different hulls may take the same mod and behave entirely differently. All the program is really is an electronic compilation of known impeller/HP charting,and an algorithm of some sort to make speed accountability as well. I did not write the program so any real info on it I must defer to LVJetboy, it's writer and distributor.
Interestingly, Chevy "smog" heads were the best they ever made. When Chevy ran into emmissions regs in the late 60's, they decided to reduce the quench area in the head, thus creating the "open-chamber" head. This actually reduced the ammount of metal arround the sides of the valves which let them breathe much more freely, which actually increased the power production from a given engine, all other factors remaining identical (valve size, port runner size, compression ratio, manifold, exhaust system).
This is the opposite tact Ford used (I have no idea on Mopar) who actually have later heads that have restricted exhaust porting to keep exhaust in the chambers to cool the charge burn (Hot, fast charge burn creates oxides of nitrogen, the one they try hardest to reduce)
Now, small port (truck mainly) heads are a definite performance no-no, but they work like monsters on a low to mid RPM tow vehicle) :boxed: They aren't a "smog" design either as they are identical to the regular passenger car heads with the exception of the port runner size.
Engine changes I (and others) can run in a dyno program we have, and it works well if fed good info (garbage-in rule). Are you sure you have small port (my assumption by the "smog" comment) heads? My 1978 330 HP stock 454 came with '049's from Indmar.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

thats strange, i have a fresh "JE" with the SS loader, A impeller, i can spin it at 5700-5800rpm, with an OLDS! i know those BBC's can do better! and my olds is getting real LOOSE from those rpm's.
No kidding it's getting loose. Better be careful there. I suspect your tach too if the pump is tight. Olds' don't have the stoutest bottom end there ever was and if you are getting 550+HP from it, it's gonna be flexing something fierce. There's just not as much Iron as in the Chevys and Ford 385 blocks. A good friend of mine who is an olds-hand doesn't advise anything over about 500 HP in a factory block, unless you want to see it come apart eventually.

[gregr1971]

No Chevy part here. Unless you have some SERIOUS porting on those K heads and a huge cam, i doubt you have the power to turn an A impeller to a true 5500 that you claim your getting. Your pump must be loose or your tach is wrong. Keep the Olds, they are ok. Get ride of the tunnel ram and get you an Edelbrock Victor intake and use the carb you have now. It will run much better. Been there done that.
i don't know if anything has been done to the heads, i have the comp cams 305h cam, for an olds powered boat it ruuns damn good, i just hate having to clean oil off of everything when i use the boat, according to www.442.com ,
the K heads have a larger set of valves, as i say, i have not taken the heads off to see. come over to houston one day and lets take it for a spin, who knows you might could take the engine home with you!

[gregr1971]

No kidding it's getting loose. Better be careful there. I suspect your tach too if the pump is tight. Olds' don't have the stoutest bottom end there ever was and if you are getting 550+HP from it, it's gonna be flexing something fierce. There's just not as much Iron as in the Chevys and Ford 385 blocks. A good friend of mine who is an olds-hand doesn't advise anything over about 500 HP in a factory block, unless you want to see it come apart eventually. i honestly don't know the "true" rpm's, i have the elcheapo teleflex blue series tach. but it's got to be close, if i run an hei, rpm's are on the high end of 5000, if i use points -low side of 5000rpm, surely the motor can handle it, i run the piss out of it trying to kill it..... next step- N.O.S.! I WILL SCATTER AN OLDS!
plans are a well built "mild" BBC -- real soon!

[Mighty Thor]

5500 would be about 525 hp. What do you have in the Olds. I'd love to hear cause thats pretty stout for an olds.
Actually, if you put a few really good knicks in the impeller you can spin them a lot faster than if they have a good bite. I know from experience :cry:

[Taylorman]

i don't know if anything has been done to the heads, i have the comp cams 305h cam, for an olds powered boat it ruuns damn good, i just hate having to clean oil off of everything when i use the boat, according to www.442.com ,
the K heads have a larger set of valves, as i say, i have not taken the heads off to see. come over to houston one day and lets take it for a spin, who knows you might could take the engine home with you!
I'll be in Houston in a couple weeks. Where do you live? FYI, im not trying to bag on your motor, im sure its a great motor, just giving my opinion from my experience with Olds.

[gregr1971]

I'll be in Houston in a couple weeks. Where do you live? FYI, im not trying to bag on your motor, im sure its a great motor, just giving my opinion from my experience with Olds.
i live down in Alvin, 20min. south of houston, by no means do i think you are, as i say , i don't really know the spec's of it, what do i look for in a "wore out pump"? this is my first experience with an olds, and to be honest, i am not impressed, and i did loose performance with the ram.

[Taylorman]

i live down in Alvin, 20min. south of houston, by no means do i think you are, as i say , i don't really know the spec's of it, what do i look for in a "wore out pump"? this is my first experience with an olds, and to be honest, i am not impressed, and i did loose performance with the ram.
Olds are not bad motors, they are just not capable of what a BBC is capable of. If your looking for a 700 hp motor, its possible with an Old but your gonna spend a fortune doing it. If your looking for an average 300-400 hp motor, you can do it with an Olds and make it reliable. Even 500 hp can be done pretty easy. Over that, your looking at aftermarket heads for sure. I doubt you have over 400 hp with stock heads unless they have some porting done to them. I think your tach is wrong personally. Either that or you have a very small impeller. Do you have a single carb on that tunnel ram? Their is a good engine shop in pearland called owens racing engines. May check with him to see if he knows much about Olds engines.

[gregr1971]

Olds are not bad motors, they are just not capable of what a BBC is capable of. If your looking for a 700 hp motor, its possible with an Old but your gonna spend a fortune doing it. If your looking for an average 300-400 hp motor, you can do it with an Olds and make it reliable. Even 500 hp can be done pretty easy. Over that, your looking at aftermarket heads for sure. I doubt you have over 400 hp with stock heads unless they have some porting done to them. I think your tach is wrong personally. Either that or you have a very small impeller. Do you have a single carb on that tunnel ram? Their is a good engine shop in pearland called owens racing engines. May check with him to see if he knows much about Olds engines.
i have used owens in the past, excellent work,going back to what mighty thor posted, makes sense. don't get me wrong, the motor runs it's a** off, comes out of the hole fairly quick, i was told that the impeller was a B when i purchased the boat, i was going to try an A from taylormanss, i pulled the bowl and it had LEGEND A stamped on it, so i took it as an A cut. i am running a single carb.
Sorry ,didn't mean to hi-jack the thread!

[bighead]

rondane,
why didnt the shop that did your work recommend a good loader grate to begin with instead of the inducer with a AA impeller?? Maybe this was what you requested as i'm not sure but your money was better spent on a good loader grate.
rondane He did I just have not done it yet and thought to ask questions here to learn some more about them, also plans were to pump up the motor right after rebuilding the pump last year to really see the benifit of the new pump but other thing came up for the available money so I am doing heads and probably loader to help in performance instead of the thumper motor I had planned. I really cannot say whether the inducer helped as I have no direct comparison with or without as I only ran with just the A berk without a stuffer or inducer and now have the AT AA with inducer and stuffer, I am happy with the great improvement of the holeshot with the current setup. SmokinLowriderSS, the heads I have are the truck peanut port ones that suck so hopefully I see improvement with the 049 heads. I will be getting a loader for sure and wanted info from the board as to which one would be best suited to to try first with my setup and if anyone has one for sale let me know, thanks.Bighead

[roostwear]

From my experience with my E pump, I doubt you'll see any improvement adding a loader at this time. I run around 71 and my ramp loader made no difference. What DID help was the E pump shoe and ride plate from Hi Tech. Not that it added any speed to speak of, but greatly improved the ride. When you pump mor HP to it you'll want the loader.
Just my .02

[SmokinLowriderSS]

i honestly don't know the "true" rpm's, i have the elcheapo teleflex blue series tach. but it's got to be close, if i run an hei, rpm's are on the high end of 5000, if i use points -low side of 5000rpm, surely the motor can handle it, i run the piss out of it trying to kill it..... next step- N.O.S.! I WILL SCATTER AN OLDS!
plans are a well built "mild" BBC -- real soon!
If I assume you are running headers, no mnufflers, and 10:1 compression, you migfht be making 450HP. Electronic dyno program. With log exhausts, be lucky to see 370 HP. Amer Turbine B takes 450 HP to spin it 5500 RPM. An A can easilly be machined to a "B", but not vice versa.