Kachna 23' Or Lavey Craft 24'

[gmejia]

Im In The Market For My 1st Custom Boat What Is Your Take On These 2 Boats??

[RiverDave]

Between the 2 you'd be better off with the Lavey all day long.. Nicer hull, Better Lay up, nicer rigging.. Pretty much better boat.
If your buying used though, buy my Nordic (click link in signiature line ;) )
RD

[Cole Trickle]

I don't think there even close to the same price....
24 Lavey is a very nice boat and would be at the top of my list. :)
Kachina would be 5 or 6 down unless your looking for a one of a kind over the top gel design;)(Stay away from Hobbits,dragons or mermaids with fat necks)

[NOTALENT]

Lavey...nuff said...
Do a search on Kachina and come to your own conclusions.... :D
Popcorn???

[Cole Trickle]

Popcorn???
Pretty sure Kachina could gel popcorn on the side of a boat;) :crossx:

[gmejia]

The Kachina Is 50 Grand 68 For The Lavey I Just Want To Be Happy With The Boat I Get...also Is A 23 Too Small

[AirtimeLavey]

I have a '99 24 NuEra, bought it used. L-O-V-E it. :) :cool:
No exp. w/Kachina, but my impression is that they are a "less expensive" boat.
Good luck.

[NOTALENT]

The Kachina Is 50 Grand 68 For The Lavey I Just Want To Be Happy With The Boat I Get...also Is A 23 Too Small
Is customer service important to you....what about duplication...??? :crossx:

[Cole Trickle]

The Kachina Is 50 Grand 68 For The Lavey I Just Want To Be Happy With The Boat I Get...also Is A 23 Too Small
In this case you get what you pay for.
If your looking for a good compromise take a look at the 23" Dana.(Nice boat and should be cheaper than the Lavey)
I believe in bigger is better...boat wise;)
Anything smaller than a 25 would be a little scary on Havasu on a big weekend or if the wind picks up.
Where are you going to be running and how many people usualy ride on the boat?
The 25 shockwave is alot of boat for the $$ and would handle anything you throw at it.(Ocean included)

[gmejia]

74000.00 for the 26 footer i dont wanna be the guy with the nice paint job in a lil boat...lol theres usually a few of us so i think i need to go check out the lavey

[JustDawn]

LAVEY...
Is the 23 Kachina the Bandit model they build...?
If so,I know of someone who owned one,Could not wait to get rid of it...
The Lavey may be more,however, build quality,materials,lay up,speed and RESALE,will be far superior with the Lavey...not even a comparison..(PlayDeep)

[No Name]

The Kachina Is 50 Grand 68 For The Lavey I Just Want To Be Happy With The Boat I Get...also Is A 23 Too Small
Were will you be using the boat mostly? If you're going to havasu than yes a 23 or 24 would be to small. The bigger the better, I would look into something bigger. There are a lot of used boats out there for excellent prices.

[Hardly Satisfied]

You need to go and tour both shops and test drive both boats. than talk to any owners that have there boats any make your choice

[ChumpChange]

In this case you get what you pay for.
If your looking for a good compromise take a look at the 23" Dana.(Nice boat and should be cheaper than the Lavey)
I believe in bigger is better...boat wise;)
Anything smaller than a 25 would be a little scary on Havasu on a big weekend or if the wind picks up.
Where are you going to be running and how many people usualy ride on the boat?
The 25 shockwave is alot of boat for the $$ and would handle anything you throw at it.(Ocean included)
I agree with everything here. If you're going to be boating in Havasu, the bigger is always better. Weekends are no small deal there anymore. With that coin, you can pick up a nice used boat with another four feet and big engine......my boat included.
I'm in Glendora if you're looking.

[Cole Trickle]

74000.00 for the 26 footer i dont wanna be the guy with the nice paint job in a lil boat...lol theres usually a few of us so i think i need to go check out the lavey
Check out the 25' Shockwave or 27' Dana as well. :)

[gmejia]

i would much rather have a brand new 1 i dont want ne1 elses probs...my colors my this my that you know

[NOTALENT]

23 is a good size...my 23 handled well in the Havasu chop....If you want that size range give Bobby a call with Dana Boats...you will be impressed at the work and detail put into the boat. Very reasonable pricing all the upgrades, no unicorn paint jobs, but very nice ones... :p Excellent customer service...

[No Name]

i would much rather have a brand new 1 i dont want ne1 elses probs...my colors my this my that you know
If you want to know about Kachina PM me, I have owned two of them. There are to many people on these boards who will give you an opinion that have never owned one.

[KACHINA KEN]

whatever resin bucket you decide on I can tell you one thing, you will want something bigger after your first major holiday on Havasu. :p

[gmejia]

what do you think about a 26'

[Jyruiz]

If you want to know about Kachina PM me, I have owned two of them. There are to many people on these boards who will give you an opinion that have never owned one.
Check them both out if you can and then PM No Name, he has to be on his second for a reason.

[ChumpChange]

what do you think about a 26'
Depends on which 26'. Are you still on just Lavey and Kachina? Two completely different hulls. Length is one thing, then it's off to analyze the depth / degree of the hull. Is it stepped? Is it........?????? There is a lot to analyze. a

[Jyruiz]

what do you think about a 26'
I have a 26' boat, and it handles Havasu with no problems on the weekends. I have been in smaller boats too though and it has not been as bad as some of these ballers lead you to believe. Yes you will have to slow down a little bit, but a 23'r would not be that bad.

[LaveyOne]

i would much rather have a brand new 1 i dont want ne1 elses probs...my colors my this my that you know
Smart thinking. The hull of the 24' Lavey is still one of the tops in the line-up and more than capable of handling the Havasu "slop" ... errr, chop.
Ask any of the other 24' owners and definitely take a test drive. Very solid boat and generally larger than the others, as far as similar "size" models.

[KACHINA KEN]

what do you think about a 26'
the 27 nu era is the shit.

[KACHINA KEN]

I have a 26' boat, and it handles Havasu with no problems on the weekends. I have been in smaller boats too though and it has not been as bad as some of these ballers lead you to believe. Yes you will have to slow down a little bit, but a 23'r would not be that bad.
The reason I brought it up goes back 5 yrs to an incident on a 22 skier and a shit ton of broken glass. To rough out there in the real small boats.

[atomickitn]

i have some used 27's for sale great prices...... if your looking for the 23/25 range i can put you in a 23' for far less than others ...FULLY LOADED...w a mag and all , billet you can handle pm me for details, and garrentee, a six weak delivery... :rollside:

[Jyruiz]

The reason I brought it up goes back 5 yrs to an incident on a 22 skier and a shit ton of broken glass. To rough out there in the real small boats.
That would suck, but why would you carry anything made out of glass in a boat?

[BajaMike]

Bigger is always better....
The Shockwave 25" Tremor rides like 28 to 29 foot boat..... :idea:

[MR HARLEY]

Lavey :)

[Steamin' Rice]

I don't think the two boats are really that close to each other to compare.. There is a difference in price of $18k. I would suggest narrowing your search down to a few boats that are closer to each other in terms of price and go from there.
If you are deciding between the two boats you listed, I would suggest the Lavey.

[Steamin' Rice]

PS: If I were spending $70k on a new boat I would take a good look at the 25 Shockwave. :D :D

[ChumpChange]

That would suck, but why would you carry anything made out of glass in a boat?
Ummmmm Fiberglass???? :hammerhea :hammerhea

[laveydayz]

Smart thinking. The hull of the 24' Lavey is still one of the tops in the line-up and more than capable of handling the Havasu "slop" ... errr, chop.
Ask any of the other 24' owners and definitely take a test drive. Very solid boat and generally larger than the others, as far as similar "size" models.
We have been out on Mead numerous times when the water is huge and I mean allot bigger than Havasu could ever offer and the 24 was fine. I have buddies with 28-30ft and they can not go much faster than us without beating the hell out of the boat and everyone inside. In addition the Lavey is actually a 25 center to center as it has an integral swimstep. As for Kachina VS. Lavey you are not comparing apples to apples. There is no way you can compare quality, attention to detail, hull design, etc. to a Lavey! The Lavey is quite a bit more $$ but I will tell you first hand that Lavey builds an awesome boat. Also that 68k is the base price and do yourself a favor and spend the extra $$ for the HO motor....Good luck!!

[Jyruiz]

Ummmmm Fiberglass???? :hammerhea :hammerhea
I thought about this, but his statement did not sound like he was talking about fiberglass.

[No Name]

PS: If I were spending $70k on a new boat I would take a good look at the 25 Shockwave. :D :D
Yes the 25’ shockwave is a nice boat also. Spent a little with HMF’er a couple weeks ago and he has a new one, looks very nice and well built.
So many boats to chose from. :confused:

[KACHINA KEN]

That would suck, but why would you carry anything made out of glass in a boat?
22' skier, it had a glass windshield, my point is simply small ( IMHO 22' and below ) boats + big weekend on Havasu= not so much fun as say.... the comfort level of a 27 or so. It has nothing to do with baller status.

[ChumpChange]

22' skier, it had a glass windshield, my point is simply small ( IMHO 22' and below ) boats + big weekend on Havasu= not so much fun as say.... the comfort level of a 27 or so. It has nothing to do with baller status.
I guess jruiz questions was now validated. :D

[Jyruiz]

22' skier, it had a glass windshield, my point is simply small ( IMHO 22' and below ) boats + big weekend on Havasu= not so much fun as say.... the comfort level of a 27 or so. It has nothing to do with baller status.
That really sucks, I had an 18' Crownline that I used even on big weekends and while it was a rough ride, I just slowed down and still made it to where I was going, and no broken glass.

[Partycattin]

Is customer service important to you....what about duplication...??? :crossx:
Talked with a guy a while back that had a Kachina. Said the customer service he received was really bad. Boat spent more time in the shop than on the lake. He finally sold it and bought a pontoon to get away from the hassel.
Have another friend that has a 21 Lavey. Boat handles the chop in Havasu very well. My guess that the bigger Lavey would be even better. He loves the Lavey and had good things to say for their service.

[Sun burners]

Laveycraft!

[OCMerrill]

We are going to purchase a 26 Nu Era next year (used) and just might keep the Sebring we have now as a parker strip toy.
We want to get back up on the lakes again. It's been a few years.
I am impartial to Lavey. I have met the Camire brothers (owners) in Glamis years ago and they are good folks and got Lavey well established quickly after they purchased the company 10+ years back.
Even though I curently own an Al Lavey laid up boat I would not hesitate to buy one of the latest products.
Top notch stuff. One of the few and there are others. :boxed:

[hotlavey]

what do you think about a 26'
How about a Lavey 2750? Mine is available now, ready to get wet. It's listed in the Spam section.

[cc322]

The 24 Nu Era is a nice boat ....but I dont think one could be had brand new with the HO for 68,000.00, back in 04 it cost me 67,000.00 BTW get tabs ypu wont regret it

[buddude8]

i got a 25 eliminator xp for sale for a good price if your interested.
http://***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118472

[dicudmore]

The 24 Nu Era is a nice boat ....but I dont think one could be had brand new with the HO for 68,000.00, back in 04 it cost me 67,000.00 BTW get tabs you wont regret it
I second what he said...
Lavey's a real nice boat!! From what I've heard it sounds like trim tabs are a good idea on any of the NuEra models.

[BadKachina]

You can't compare a Lavey and Kachina.........
Lets see, the Lavey has better fiberglass, better vinyl and carpet, better Merc motors, drives and controls, and it comes with Beede gauges (who??). The Kachina comes with Autometer gauges, cheaper fiberglass, cheaper Merc motors and controls.......... :rolleyes:
Oh and the best part, it looks so much better................ :rolleyes:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/3078p-972.jpg
Beam: 96"
Dry Weight (lbs): 3000
Dihedral Deadrise: 45º
Transom Deadrise: 18º
Fuel Capacity: 70 gal.
On Trailer: 26' L x 8' 4" W
• 7 Year Hull Warranty
• No Limit on Number of Graphic Gel Colors and No Limit on Interior Colors
• All Stainless Steel Hardware and ONLY Top Grade Marine Vinyl and Carpet
• Mercruiser 5.0 with Bravo One Outdrive
• Stainless Steel Prop, Mercury Offshore Control Unit, Ritchie In Dash Compass
• Depth Finder Thru Hull, Stainless Steel Thru Transom Exhaust
• Full Tilt Steering System with Matching Colored Wheel NEW FOR 2007 MODELS!
• Built in Storage Spaces throughout boat
• Ski Locker
• Stainless Steel Ski Tow and Oval Elliptic Rails
• Full Auto Meter Gauge System
• Convenient Removable Cabin Table
• Built in Custom Cooler
• Sofa Sleeper Bed in Cabin
• Bimini Top
• Full Coast Gaurd Equipment Including Fenders, Fender and Anchor Rope, Digger Anchor, Life Vests
• Full Light Kit
• 70 GALLON TOTAL FUEL CAPACITY FUEL TANK
• FULL BILLET ALUMINUM DECOR PACKAGE NEW FOR 2007 MODELS!
• Randalls VIP Tandem Axle Trailer with Disc Brakes, Custom Wheel Rims, Spare Tire. Your Choice of Trailer Color
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/307824nu_large8.jpg
Custom Gel Coat Colors in Mold
Full Interior – Color Coordinated
Thru Transom Exhaust
V-Berth with Padded Sleeper
Marine Carpet
Ski Tow
Powdercoated Trim Package
Sport Steering Wheel
Molded Integrated Windscreen
Bucket Seating w/ Fiberglass Pedestals
Powdercoated Grab Handles (5)
Tandem Axle Trailer w/ Brakes
Carpeted Ski Locker (Open Bow)
Ski Racks (Closed Bow)
Ski Tow (Pylon in Outboards)
Full Instrumentation (Beede)
Navigation Lights w/ Pop-up Bow Light
Bilge Pump
Bilge Blower
AM/FM/CD Stereo w/4 Speakers
Molded Integrated Swim Step
Flush Blower Vents
Flush Gas Fills
Interior Courtesy Lights
Power Engine Hatch Lift
Drink Cup Holders (6)
Dual Control Offshore Shifter w/ Trim
Auxilary Plug
Lounge Seats (Closed Bow)
Fiberglass Partitions in Engine Compartment
Upholstered Sun Deck w/ Full Bench Seat
Hand Applied Composite Lamination
Stainless Steel Pop-up Deck Cleats (4)
Fiberglass Rear Pedestal with Ice Chest
Molded Integrated Swim Platform

[MagicMtnDan]

I know someone who did all the research and visited both Laveycraft and Kachina and the difference to him was night and day in terms of quality. There is no comparison between the two. Furthermore, you get what you pay for.
He said Laveycraft is a much better built boat. He also says check out Shockwave too :boxed:

[Kachina 34]

I know someone...................
I know a friend of a friend who's mom's second cousin's neighbor’s son has a Kachina. :confused:
Another brilliant statement from a non-Kachina owner.

[dicudmore]

I know a friend of a friend who's mom's second cousin's neighbor’s son has a Kachina. :confused:
Another brilliant statement from a non-Kachina owner.
are we still talking boats or is this Ferris Bueller's Day Off?

[pixrthis]

It's hard to buy a better built boat than a Lavey Craft. I owned a 21 that made few Catalina runs and many Channel Island runs with zero problems, no stress cracks, no rigging problems, no mechanical issues.
The bottoms handle better than most boats of the same size and I agree with whoever said tabs are a must.

[ROZ]

Laveycraft!
and drive it like you stole it! :D

[Debbolas]

PM Scream, he will tell you all about our Kachina.
We love our boat....I would get the 30ft drone, if I could (with the blue engine)
;)
Great customer service, Great boat!
:D

[laveydayz]

Like comparing a Commander to a DCB!!!! Both have canopies and unlimited gel options but one is half the price!!! Bottom line is you get what you pay for.

[Sun burners]

and drive it like you stole it! :D
And trim tabs down!

[MR HARLEY]

Like comparing a Commander to a DCB!!!!
So in your analogies are you saying Lavey is the same as DCB? :D

[rivercrazy]

So in your analogies are you saying Lavey is the same as DCB? :D
While their actual product lines are quite different, I think their quality is comparable. Lavey actually does a few things better like layup and gelcoat. I'd say rigging is pretty close

[Big Warlock]

If you want to know about Kachina PM me, I have owned two of them. There are to many people on these boards who will give you an opinion that have never owned one.
No need to own one, I have observed two of them sink and pictures of another on fire in the ocean before it sank. Enough said! :crossx:

[laveydayz]

So in your analogies are you saying Lavey is the same as DCB? :D
No not at all...in my opinion DCB is in a class of its own and you pay for that quality/craftsmenship as well. I will say that Lavey builds one of the best quality custom boats out there along with Howard and a few select others. You can not compare a Kachina to a Lavey in anyway period!! Im sure there are allot of happy Kachina customers, but facts are facts and if you were to go over each boat it would be very obvious the differences in quality and attention to detail. Not trying to slam kachina or any other brand by any means. If the owner is happy with his boat, regardless of brand, than thats all that matters

[Big Warlock]

Search posts for top boats and you will not find Kachina posted. Lavey is almost always there. They recently won the offshore factory title from Warlock! Good boat! :crossx:

[Big Warlock]

For my own reasons I want to clarify my position on Kachina Boats.
I am tired of people coming on these boards and comparing their Kachina to boats that are not even in the same league. If you think your Kachina is in the same league as Fountain, Donzi, DCB, Scarab, Lavey, Warlock, Spectre, Eliminator, etc. etc. then it is my opinion that you do not recognize the capabilities of your boat.
Kachina is what you pay for. And, in my opinion, you pay too much for what you actually get. These discussions have been made over and over and over again. Kachina is a fine boat if you understand their capabilities and know what you want to do with it within it's capabilities. But the impression you get from many is that we all got ripped off by buying "x" boat and the proud Kachina owner got a screaming deal on the same size boat. If that is your belief, we disagree. Evidence has been presented to the contrary.
When you purchase a Hummer or a GMC product or a Ford, that is one thing. When you purchase a KIA, Hyundai, etc etc. it's another. We all know what you paid. There isn't anything wrong with driving a KIA. But don't try to tell everyone that because it has leather and you paid half price and it is almost the same length, that you have the same vehicle! That's BS.
If your happy, wonderful! Hope you know what your doing. If it's me, my family will be in something on land and in the water that I know plenty about!
Off my soapbox. Apologies to those who were offended. Keep up the PMs!! :cool:

[MR HARLEY]

While their actual product lines are quite different, I think their quality is comparable. Lavey actually does a few things better like layup and gelcoat. I'd say rigging is pretty close
How is it that Lavey has a better layup?
Rigging is not that close at all IMHO, Lavey has very very nice in Fit and finsh. I seen it first hand Lavey and DCB. I am not slamming Lavey in any way, its just my opinion. Lavey was very high on my list of boats to purchase (because of fit and finish and layup) untill I saw what DCb had to offer. :)
No not at all...in my opinion DCB is in a class of its own and you pay for that quality/craftsmenship as well. I will say that Lavey builds one of the best quality custom boats out there along with Howard
They sure do build a nice boat.
You can not compare a Kachina to a Lavey in anyway period!!
Absolutely correct!

[rivercrazy]

How is it that Lavey has a better layup?
Rigging is not that close at all IMHO, Lavey has very very nice in Fit and finsh. I seen it first hand Lavey and DCB. I am not slamming Lavey in any way, its just my opinion. Lavey was very high on my list of boats to purchase (because of fit and finish and layup) untill I saw what DCb had to offer. :)
They sure do build a nice boat.
Absolutely correct!
Lavey is one of the better boats out there in terms of layup. Vacuum bagging, exotic materials, high tech resins, etc.
In terms of fit and finish, there are not many that do a better job. Take a close look at the straitness of their hulls, strakes, transitions. They are very precise.
I've also crawled around many Lavey & DCB's both during construction and after. While DCB may use a few more zip ties, the quality of the rigging is pretty close. Perhaps DCB uses more billet parts but that's more fluff than substance IMHO.
One thing I will agree DCB does better is interiors.
Both are very high quality boats and as others have said, they are in a totally different market segment versus Kachina

[Scream]

I can offer my experience on my Kachina.
I've owned it for 2 1/2 seasons now and have had no trouble with the boat. I have had minor issues with the trailer that have affected my boat, but those were taken care of by the good people at Kachina. I can speak to their handling of all my transactions as being very positive.
I have been in and seen many Lavey's and I believe them to be great boats as well. I have never heard any negative information about them from any Lavey owners and they all seem to look good in the channel regardless of age.
There will be some rediculous babble on these two boats, and probably plenty of negative info on the Kachina's, but typically it's from those that have not owned one. I've very happy with my Kachina and yes, I got what I paid for and then some. It's not fancy offshore special, it's not "top of the line" but it is a great boat and is serving me well.
Good luck with your search and have fun on the water.
Scream

[Jordy]

Interesting. :idea: :D

[MR HARLEY]

Lavey is one of the better boats out there in terms of layup. Vacuum bagging, exotic materials, high tech resins, etc.
In terms of fit and finish, there are not many that do a better job. Take a close look at the straitness of their hulls, strakes, transitions. They are very precise.
Yes I agree 100% on alot of what you said above :) , they are definetly one of the better boats out there in terms of fit and finish and layup, but in comparison to the Dcb, I dont think their lay up is better, again just my opinion. :)
Both are very high quality boats and as others have said, they are in a totally different market segment versus Kachina
They sure are.

[laveydayz]

I don’t know you but have seen some of your posts. It seems to me that you are one of those assholes that know everything about everything. You have it all, know it all and have done it all. To me an asshole like you is just a person with a big mouth that is trying so hard to make themselves look like a superstar. There are a lot of nice normal people here that don’t need to talk about themselves but there are also many people on here like you that act like there shit don’t skink. To you and all of the others assholes like you, go f--k yourselves.
I glad most boaters here have enough respect to not trash someone else’s pride and joy. If all boaters were like you and the others like you I would sell my boat and never boat again. But luckily most boaters are way cool and don’t feel the need to talk about themselves or trash others all the time. I don’t know what your problem is, maybe your dad molested you as a child. So if you have more to say about Kachinas why not pull one over next time you are at the lake, ocean or where it is that a big man of the world like you boats and tell them what a piece of shit they have. I sure most of them will respond very nicely to you.
So next time you decide to open your mouth or give your opinion on something try and think about others first. Or better yet say to them in person you f--king coward. Until that time keep your know it all dick suck attitude under wraps before you get your ass handed to you on a platter big shot.
Have a nice day, ASSHOLE!
I do not agree with anyone slaming someone else's pride and joy. I think the point here IMO is that there is a difference in quality/price and therefore you cannot fairly compare the two. For the peeps who own Kachina's and are happy with their boat than more power to them. On the other hand there are allot of peeps (me being one of them) who are very picky and want nothing but the best quality,rigging, attn. to detail etc. With this being said, in no way are we saying a Kachina is a total piece of sh*t. If the owner of whatever brand is happy then thats what matters. So put the gloves on Kachina 34 and go kick some ass!!!!! LOL

[Jordy]

With this being said, in no way are we saying a Kachina is a total piece of sh*t. If the owner of whatever brand is happy then thats what matters. So put the gloves on Kachina 34 and go kick some ass!!!!! LOL
YEAH, KICK HIS ASS SEABASS!!!! :D :D :D
Why try and bring logic and reason into this thread now??? We've got name calling and thinly veiled threats. You just gotta LOVE internet tough guys!!! :D :D :D
I didn't see any bashing going on in this thread, but I guess if the shoe fits on the fat necked alien goblin eating a nice turkey dinner with dragon mashed potatoes on his surfboard, so be it. :D :D :D

[JustDawn]

For my own reasons I want to clarify my position on Kachina Boats.
I am tired of people coming on these boards and comparing their Kachina to boats that are not even in the same league. If you think your Kachina is in the same league as Fountain, Donzi, DCB, Scarab, Lavey, Warlock, Spectre, Eliminator, etc. etc. then it is my opinion that you do not recognize the capabilities of your boat.
Kachina is what you pay for. And, in my opinion, you pay too much for what you actually get. These discussions have been made over and over and over again. Kachina is a fine boat if you understand their capabilities and know what you want to do with it within it's capabilities. But the impression you get from many is that we all got ripped off by buying "x" boat and the proud Kachina owner got a screaming deal on the same size boat. If that is your belief, we disagree. Evidence has been presented to the contrary.
When you purchase a Hummer or a GMC product or a Ford, that is one thing. When you purchase a KIA, Hyundai, etc etc. it's another. We all know what you paid. There isn't anything wrong with driving a KIA. But don't try to tell everyone that because it has leather and you paid half price and it is almost the same length, that you have the same vehicle! That's BS.
If your happy, wonderful! Hope you know what your doing. If it's me, my family will be in something on land and in the water that I know plenty about!
Off my soapbox. Apologies to those who were offended. Keep up the PMs!! :cool:
Excellent points...
It's like comparing a 1976 Ford Galaxie LTD vs. a new BMW..
Kachina's are based upon the old Sleekcraft molds (circa late 70's)....
I have a LOT more respect for builders that ACTUALLY design they're own hulls from scratch...New tooling is expensive,factor in R&D,such as finding optimum X-dimesion,CG,proper placement of steps,etc...which translates into SPEED,ride quality,and handling.
....You pay more,because it's newer technology built into the platform.
Afew years ago I visited the Kachina factory,had the opportunity to talk with Louie.
I inquired about stepped bottoms,He told me they didn't really work and that there was no significant increase in speed...
Funny because,Skaters,Cigarettes,Eliminators,DCB's,Outer limits,LaveyCraft,MTI,Donzi,Fountains,and a host of other builders have them and swear by the gains.
I inquired about top speed of a particular hull,he said 63-65mph...I asked if they had tried different X-dimensions?
He looked at me like I was nuts
I think it's slap in the face to compare upper tier builders with Kachina's.
They have gone out and spent very large sums of money on new designs and bleeding edge technology in an effort to offer the latest,best platform on the water....not just a multi-colored shiny(sometimes questionable) gel coat/paint design on a dated hull.
Having said that
There is absolutely nothing WRONG with a Kachina,it is what it is...
A value based boat built to accomodate those who don't want or care for the latest in design or technology.
No initial tooling or R&D expense...
...they should cost less.
(PlayDeep)

[Jordy]

I have a LOT more respect for builders that ACTUALLY design they're own hulls from scratch...
Well interestingly enough, the 34' Kachina is a Fountain bottom, minus the beak, or so I've been told from several people in the know. It's a Fountchina. Funny thing is, the 34' is only 2' longer than my 30' Spectre, going off the back rubrail on my boat, and the rub rail on the back of the integrated swimstep of the Kachina, which essentially means that the bottom on that 34' boat is only 30' long, just a little FYI. ;)
Last time I was by there, Louie had a straight bottom 38' Cigarette that had all the holes filled in for the exhaust and drives. Guess he's going to be pulling a mold off the bottom of the Cig and building a 38'er now. At least he's using proven bottoms. :D

[laveydayz]

YEAH, KICK HIS ASS SEABASS!!!! :D :D :D
Why try and bring logic and reason into this thread now??? We've got name calling and thinly veiled threats. You just gotta LOVE internet tough guys!!! :D :D :D
I didn't see any bashing going on in this thread, but I guess if the shoe fits on the fat necked alien goblin eating a nice turkey dinner with dragon mashed potatoes on his surfboard, so be it. :D :D :D
LMAO....Go get um killer!!

[hotlavey]

I don’t know you but have seen some of your posts. It seems to me that you are one of those assholes that know everything about everything. You have it all, know it all and have done it all. To me an asshole like you is just a person with a big mouth that is trying so hard to make themselves look like a superstar. There are a lot of nice normal people here that don’t need to talk about themselves but there are also many people on here like you that act like there shit don’t skink. To you and all of the others assholes like you, go f--k yourselves.
I glad most boaters here have enough respect to not trash someone else’s pride and joy. If all boaters were like you and the others like you I would sell my boat and never boat again. But luckily most boaters are way cool and don’t feel the need to talk about themselves or trash others all the time. I don’t know what your problem is, maybe your dad molested you as a child. So if you have more to say about Kachinas why not pull one over next time you are at the lake, ocean or where it is that a big man of the world like you boats and tell them what a piece of shit they have. I sure most of them will respond very nicely to you.
So next time you decide to open your mouth or give your opinion on something try and think about others first. Or better yet say to them in person you f--king coward. Until that time keep your know it all dick suck attitude under wraps before you get your ass handed to you on a platter big shot.
Have a nice day, ASSHOLE!
You're a real class act.

[laveydayz]

than my 30' Spectre
Jordy....aside from the Kachina topic, how do you like your Spectre? Dont hear a whole lot on here about them but seems like an awesome boat that is reasonably priced considering the size and caliber of boat. Just curious? Are they an east coast builder?

[Jordy]

Jordy....aside from the Kachina topic, how do you like your Spectre? Dont hear a whole lot on here about them but seems like an awesome boat that is reasonably priced considering the size and caliber of boat. Just curious? Are they an east coast builder?
It's a blast!!! Big enough to go play in the ocean, small enough to take to my local lakes. Total kick in the pants to drive. I've been more than impressed with the 300X's. It doesn't like smooth water though, needs some good chop to run in and really free it up. At the Desert Storm Poker Run in April, we were in the 4th group (loosely done by speed I guess) and we were the second boat to the first card stop out of 20 boats in our group, and it was rough out there, but we ran right though it all.
It was an East Coast boat, but Jay sold the cat molds to Scott Conrad Marine (somewhere over in the L.A. area) so now they Spectre cats are West Coast, while Jay is going to keep building the center console v-bottom fishing boats out of Florida.
I do have it for sale over in the OSO classifieds. Thinking I want something with a little more function, although I'm not looking forward to feeding twin big blocks. :(

[laveydayz]

It's a blast!!! Big enough to go play in the ocean, small enough to take to my local lakes. Total kick in the pants to drive. I've been more than impressed with the 300X's. It doesn't like smooth water though, needs some good chop to run in and really free it up. At the Desert Storm Poker Run in April, we were in the 4th group (loosely done by speed I guess) and we were the second boat to the first card stop out of 20 boats in our group, and it was rough out there, but we ran right though it all.
It was an East Coast boat, but Jay sold the cat molds to Scott Conrad Marine (somewhere over in the L.A. area) so now they Spectre cats are West Coast, while Jay is going to keep building the center console v-bottom fishing boats out of Florida.
I do have it for sale over in the OSO classifieds. Thinking I want something with a little more function, although I'm not looking forward to feeding twin big blocks. :( Sweet!! I would agree feeding two big blocks will be costly for sure. Now back to the Kachina bashing...round two Kachina 34 VS. Big Warlock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :argue: :rollside:

[No Name]

No need to own one, I have observed two of them sink and pictures of another on fire in the ocean before it sank. Enough said! :crossx:
Come on Rob… in my twenty five years of boating I have seen a lot of boats sink, all makes and models. Does that mean they are all pieces of Shit? As far as Kachina I’m not here to defend them, I could care less if they never sell another boat again. If I had the money I would buy a Skater, Cigarette, or Outerlimits but I don’t. A member asked a question about a boat that I happened to own and I just wanted to give him some info on it, that’s all.
I bought my Kachina because I was looking for a new boat that I could pay cash for and not go broke doing so. I run my boat about 60 hours a year at Havasu and local lakes only and I’m sure it will perform as I need it to in those conditions. I usually get a new boat every three years, will I buy another kachina? who knows. I will make that call when the time comes. One thing I know for sure anyone who buys any new boat pays to much for what they get.
Next boat I buy will most likely be a used one maybe two three years old that someone is selling for less than half of what they paid. I have learned over the years that no mater what boat you own as long as you go thru it keep everything tight and keep up the maintenance it will last a long time. Any boat will fall apart if you just let it go………….. Just like that damn anchor shade you recommended. :D :D :D

[MrsSigEpMock]

Pretty sure Kachina could gel popcorn on the side of a boat;) :crossx:
Extra butter so you can squeeze into the compact spots in the channel.

[BADASS38CHEVY]

My Lavey is top notch rigging ,glass work,NO RATTLES IN CHOP,and trouble free.very well built boat.GO LAVEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cp marine]

Check them both out if you can and then PM No Name, he has to be on his second for a reason.
The Patton quote is great, And he is correct check -em both out . Im pretty sure kachina kens "resin bucket" rides very well and he is very happy with it or he wouldent be using it all the time and going to Catalina etc. There are too many experts on here that have never built a boat in their life, Especially the warlock guy. I dont know how you can hold down so many jobs at once? He must work for composite one to know what kachina buys for material and he must also work for mercury--man if I had that much income I would own a outerlimits or something. Yeah the guys from Lavey are good guys I met them at the powerboat trials in S.D.-but the kachina guys will work their tails off for you also. Most all custom boat manufacturer's do a great job, With an exeption of a handful and obviously as with anything you are going to pay a litte or alot more, what this higher price is pays for is the extra labor time in all facets of building the boat from top to bottom. some boats are built faster that others , so advise would be to order one in the winter.

[BadKachina]

Excellent points...
It's like comparing a 1976 Ford Galaxie LTD vs. a new BMW..
Kachina's are based upon the old Sleekcraft molds (circa late 70's)....
I have a LOT more respect for builders that ACTUALLY design they're own hulls from scratch...New tooling is expensive,factor in R&D,such as finding optimum X-dimesion,CG,proper placement of steps,etc...which translates into SPEED,ride quality,and handling.
....You pay more,because it's newer technology built into the platform.
Afew years ago I visited the Kachina factory,had the opportunity to talk with Louie.
I inquired about stepped bottoms,He told me they didn't really work and that there was no significant increase in speed...
Funny because,Skaters,Cigarettes,Eliminators,DCB's,Outer limits,LaveyCraft,MTI,Donzi,Fountains,and a host of other builders have them and swear by the gains.
I inquired about top speed of a particular hull,he said 63-65mph...I asked if they had tried different X-dimensions?
He looked at me like I was nuts
I think it's slap in the face to compare upper tier builders with Kachina's.
They have gone out and spent very large sums of money on new designs and bleeding edge technology in an effort to offer the latest,best platform on the water....not just a multi-colored shiny(sometimes questionable) gel coat/paint design on a dated hull.
Having said that
There is absolutely nothing WRONG with a Kachina,it is what it is...
A value based boat built to accomodate those who don't want or care for the latest in design or technology.
No initial tooling or R&D expense...
...they should cost less.
(PlayDeep)
That hull for the 30's and 26's isn't a Sleek either, do your research. It's actually an old Conquest hull that they both splashed, and get this, before Conquest had it it was and Arronow designed hull. I guess you can't respect a Sleek, Kachina, or Conquest, either.
Since we all have so much experience with all the better brands of boats on this board I can honestly say that after being in just about every west coast manufactuers boat and most east coast boats, only a select few are above the rest.
Powerquest, Cigarrette, Skater, Donzi (eat me Rob), Formula, MTI, Nortech, DCB (the only west coast boat) Sonic and Outerlimits(although I've never been in one), are a cut above the rest.
Sorry Jordy I actually have no hands on experience with Spectres or any kind of opinion on them.
Honestly I would put the rigging in a Powerquest next to any boat.
I've been in many Kachinas, Sleeks, Magics, Eliminators, Warlocks, Fountains, Bajas, and they most of them are sub par to the affore mentioned group. Some times their are exceptions to that rule, all of those manufactuers offer a more custom version, and you always have the guy that pays to have his boat done to the higher level, but you will pay for the extra work. I've seen Eliminators that would rival anybody's rigging, along with Fountains, but most of late nineties, early 2000's average production boats from any of the second group have alot of similarities.
How many interiors have you experts replaced from the second group that I mentioned? I can tell you that I've replaced a lot of rotten wood from the entire second group. I've seen lots of crappy stitching, lots of cookie cutter graphics, lots of sticker graphics, tons of untied wires, and messy riggin from all of the second group.
Lets talk facts, how many Kachinas have delaminated? Does any one have one that did? Not "my friend heard that one did that was owned by my brothers sisters cousins friends", but did any one on this site actually have one that did? Did any body have one that sunk because of a hull defect? (any boat can sink, all it takes is a leak and a broken bilge pump). Any with rotten floors? I can name some manufactuers that I have actually seen with rotten floors. (These are just some I've seen first hand) Baja for one, Nordic, Eliminator, Bayliner, Rinker, and many other small name manufactuers. In their defense, most of them were older uncared for boats.
Honestly you so get what you pay for in a boat. Their are better rigged boats out there. I like the fact that Lavey actually races a factory boat. Some of what you are paying for when you buy one supports that racing team and the R and D they are doing. That not only gives Lavey owners pride in their boats but it should help them build a faster and safer boat. That is a good thing and I like the idea of it. Would I buy one over a Kachina? I don't think that would be enough to sway my decision. I like the lines of Louies boats (or whoever he splashed them from) better. Would I buy a DCB over a Kachina? In a New York minute, and a Cigarette, and a Skater, and an MTI, and a Nortech, and a few others.........
I would honestly like to see some facts posted by all the Kachina haters. Names, dates, pictures, etc., not here say or rumors.
I think I'll go wipe down my Kia now, thanks Rob............. I guess one thing you can say for us Kachina owners, we obviously aren't compensating for anything, not in a Kia that is........... :rolleyes:

[bignet]

The Kachina Is 50 Grand 68 For The Lavey I Just Want To Be Happy With The Boat I Get...also Is A 23 Too Small
For $68k you can get a bad ass 26' Carrera Deck boat...brand new with a 496/HO......but, Kachina is a badass boat as well. Either way you're gonna get to the Sandbar!
bignet

[98 Vector 21]

For your money the best you can do is to buy my Hallett Vector! Made better than those 2 boats put together and faster with same H.P.

[BadKachina]

As somebody that has crawled around quite a few, in a disassembled state, I would totally agree. Lavey is rigged every bit as good as DCB, so is Force Offshore for that matter, without quite as many zip ties. The DCBs tend to be more blingarific, with all their logodocioed parts, but parts is parts. I don't know much about the actual layup of Lavey or DCB, but for my money, the finished product of a vacuum bagged Lavey is no comparison to anything I have seen from any other company, period.
See, now that's a post I can deal with. Bob has some experience with Lavey and mentioned that they are vacuum bagged. That's a feature that someone might want to pay extra for. You get a better, more even coat of resin with less material, it makes a lighter boat with equal or more strengh than a heavier laid up boat. In the end that adds up to more speed without any compromises for strengh. Nice point Bob. :)

[dicudmore]

I don’t know you but have seen some of your posts. It seems to me that you are one of those assholes that know everything about everything. You have it all, know it all and have done it all. To me an asshole like you is just a person with a big mouth that is trying so hard to make themselves look like a superstar. There are a lot of nice normal people here that don’t need to talk about themselves but there are also many people on here like you that act like there shit don’t skink. To you and all of the others assholes like you, go f--k yourselves.
I glad most boaters here have enough respect to not trash someone else’s pride and joy. If all boaters were like you and the others like you I would sell my boat and never boat again. But luckily most boaters are way cool and don’t feel the need to talk about themselves or trash others all the time. I don’t know what your problem is, maybe your dad molested you as a child. So if you have more to say about Kachinas why not pull one over next time you are at the lake, ocean or where it is that a big man of the world like you boats and tell them what a piece of shit they have. I sure most of them will respond very nicely to you.
So next time you decide to open your mouth or give your opinion on something try and think about others first. Or better yet say to them in person you f--king coward. Until that time keep your know it all dick suck attitude under wraps before you get your ass handed to you on a platter big shot.
Have a nice day, ASSHOLE!
this obviously makes you an internet tough guy...
having met the "asshole" you are directing that tirade to, I might suggest knowing a little bit about who or what you are talking about before making statements as these...It would be my guess that "Big Warlock" would have no problem explaining to you in detail in person what he finds about Kia, Kachina or any other thing to be sub-par, or not on the level of some other.

[dicudmore]

We used to have a saying "the bigger they are, the harder they fall." I think it's still a saying. :D
probably is...I was just saying...he'd probably be ok with explaining his position on said watercraft...thats all.

[atomickitn]

some of thease posts are pretty funny ....like someone said better merc motors. and controls.......hummm i did not know that merc had two different lines of stock type motors....auto meter !! has been building gauges for several ...several years , hummm lets see , they are used in nascar ,,nhra, arca, indy, baja, imsa ......so on and so on......as far as fiber glass.....riber glass is fiber glass unless you get into the more exotics ...but then you have to ask for it and pay more for it ......and then humm lets see oohh! ther must be some really different woods being used.humm other than iff you ask for the use of balsa ,all the wood used in the building of the bulkheads and stringers.....unles you ask, and pay for micro lamb.....is ALL THE SAME!....if you feel the need to pay more for somebody name with out test riding in the boats........one who is buying a boat should ride in every thing that you are looking for .....with out having to put a down payment for a test ride , and you should get in writing the actual price you are going to be paying for said boat, with all the items you will be getting for that price....in black and white...nothing hidden.....if you are looking to save money and get all the things you want pm me for details on dana boats....you wont be sorry

[XTRM22]

We used to have a saying "the bigger they are, the harder they fall." I think it's still a saying. :D
Yeah my dad told me that one too, right after he told me about how if you stand up to a bully they'll back down. In my experience, the bigger they are the harder they hit back. :)
Chuck

[No Name]

Man these Kachina thread's are very popular. :rollside:
Oh and entertaining too……. :D :D :D

[Jyruiz]

Whats the difference what boat is the best, FastFreddy has the fastest boat and no matter what you get, he will outspeed your boat with his bimini top up. :rollside: :rollside:

[No Name]

Whats the difference what boat is the best, FastFreddy has the fastest boat and no matter what you get, he will outspeed your boat with his bimini top up. :rollside: :rollside:
LMAO............ :)

[INSman]

Is it too late to suggest a Dana 23' at this point ??!!?? :cool:

[Big Warlock]

I don’t know you but have seen some of your posts. It seems to me that you are one of those assholes that know everything about everything. You have it all, know it all and have done it all. To me an asshole like you is just a person with a big mouth that is trying so hard to make themselves look like a superstar. There are a lot of nice normal people here that don’t need to talk about themselves but there are also many people on here like you that act like there shit don’t skink. To you and all of the others assholes like you, go f--k yourselves.
I glad most boaters here have enough respect to not trash someone else’s pride and joy. If all boaters were like you and the others like you I would sell my boat and never boat again. But luckily most boaters are way cool and don’t feel the need to talk about themselves or trash others all the time. I don’t know what your problem is, maybe your dad molested you as a child. So if you have more to say about Kachinas why not pull one over next time you are at the lake, ocean or where it is that a big man of the world like you boats and tell them what a piece of shit they have. I sure most of them will respond very nicely to you.
So next time you decide to open your mouth or give your opinion on something try and think about others first. Or better yet say to them in person you f--king coward. Until that time keep your know it all dick suck attitude under wraps before you get your ass handed to you on a platter big shot.
Have a nice day, ASSHOLE!
Sorry I wasn't around to answer. Soooooo 7 posts and you know me? Obviously you post under a different name and when it comes to talking with me, you require a new name. no problem! :crossx: Actually I have a few friends that own Kachinas and another brand of boat I am not fond of. They know how I feel. I don't hide it from anyone. We joke about it. No big deal. I think you can actually pay some additional money and they will "lay it up heavy" for ya! I have heard that. I voiced an opinion. And yes, I do get around quite a bit. Feel free to stop by and grab a beer on my boat anytime. Most everyone knows where to find me.
As far as being geting my ass handed to me, doubtful you are able to do it. Hahahaha. Your a internet tough guy. But it is impressive. Good luck with your further posts! Feel free to PM me with your other name. I am not the one who is hiding behind anything! Good luck with your boat! I would suggest Sea Tow or Vessel Assist. Just good insurance. :cool:

[Big Warlock]

Come on Rob… in my twenty five years of boating I have seen a lot of boats sink, all makes and models. Does that mean they are all pieces of Shit? As far as Kachina I’m not here to defend them, I could care less if they never sell another boat again. If I had the money I would buy a Skater, Cigarette, or Outerlimits but I don’t. A member asked a question about a boat that I happened to own and I just wanted to give him some info on it, that’s all.
I bought my Kachina because I was looking for a new boat that I could pay cash for and not go broke doing so. I run my boat about 60 hours a year at Havasu and local lakes only and I’m sure it will perform as I need it to in those conditions. I usually get a new boat every three years, will I buy another kachina? who knows. I will make that call when the time comes. One thing I know for sure anyone who buys any new boat pays to much for what they get.
Next boat I buy will most likely be a used one maybe two three years old that someone is selling for less than half of what they paid. I have learned over the years that no mater what boat you own as long as you go thru it keep everything tight and keep up the maintenance it will last a long time. Any boat will fall apart if you just let it go………….. Just like that damn anchor shade you recommended. :D :D :D
Your right. I have seen other boats sink. I vividly remember a Kachina sinking outside of Cottonwood years ago. I had my Scarab. Bad day, windy, etc. etc. Could and might have sunk others. Hull failure in this instance. It really stuck with me. I am harsh on this subject. But I am consistent. :cool: And my anchor shade went toes up as well this past weekend. I got to figure something out soon! lol :crossx:

[Big Warlock]

That hull for the 30's and 26's isn't a Sleek either, do your research. It's actually an old Conquest hull that they both splashed, and get this, before Conquest had it it was and Arronow designed hull. I guess you can't respect a Sleek, Kachina, or Conquest, either.
Since we all have so much experience with all the better brands of boats on this board I can honestly say that after being in just about every west coast manufactuers boat and most east coast boats, only a select few are above the rest.
Powerquest, Cigarrette, Skater, Donzi (eat me Rob), Formula, MTI, Nortech, DCB (the only west coast boat) Sonic and Outerlimits(although I've never been in one), are a cut above the rest.
Sorry Jordy I actually have no hands on experience with Spectres or any kind of opinion on them.
Honestly I would put the rigging in a Powerquest next to any boat.
I've been in many Kachinas, Sleeks, Magics, Eliminators, Warlocks, Fountains, Bajas, and they most of them are sub par to the affore mentioned group. Some times their are exceptions to that rule, all of those manufactuers offer a more custom version, and you always have the guy that pays to have his boat done to the higher level, but you will pay for the extra work. I've seen Eliminators that would rival anybody's rigging, along with Fountains, but most of late nineties, early 2000's average production boats from any of the second group have alot of similarities.
How many interiors have you experts replaced from the second group that I mentioned? I can tell you that I've replaced a lot of rotten wood from the entire second group. I've seen lots of crappy stitching, lots of cookie cutter graphics, lots of sticker graphics, tons of untied wires, and messy riggin from all of the second group.
Lets talk facts, how many Kachinas have delaminated? Does any one have one that did? Not "my friend heard that one did that was owned by my brothers sisters cousins friends", but did any one on this site actually have one that did? Did any body have one that sunk because of a hull defect? (any boat can sink, all it takes is a leak and a broken bilge pump). Any with rotten floors? I can name some manufactuers that I have actually seen with rotten floors. (These are just some I've seen first hand) Baja for one, Nordic, Eliminator, Bayliner, Rinker, and many other small name manufactuers. In their defense, most of them were older uncared for boats.
Honestly you so get what you pay for in a boat. Their are better rigged boats out there. I like the fact that Lavey actually races a factory boat. Some of what you are paying for when you buy one supports that racing team and the R and D they are doing. That not only gives Lavey owners pride in their boats but it should help them build a faster and safer boat. That is a good thing and I like the idea of it. Would I buy one over a Kachina? I don't think that would be enough to sway my decision. I like the lines of Louies boats (or whoever he splashed them from) better. Would I buy a DCB over a Kachina? In a New York minute, and a Cigarette, and a Skater, and an MTI, and a Nortech, and a few others.........
I would honestly like to see some facts posted by all the Kachina haters. Names, dates, pictures, etc., not here say or rumors.
I think I'll go wipe down my Kia now, thanks Rob............. I guess one thing you can say for us Kachina owners, we obviously aren't compensating for anything, not in a Kia that is........... :rolleyes:
Well said. I knew this thread was going to get ugly. I thought I clarified my position. Again, if it gets you to the lake, awesome! I just get tired of a few people on here telling us how awesome their Kachina is. And when a person asks for an opinion, I am going to give it to him just like I would anyone else. There are some great boats out there. There are some that I don't like but are still great boats! I just have a bad taste over the Kachina thing. It's my hangup. I went on Kenny's boat this weekend and was impressed. He totally walked away from me and still had power when we left to make a run at the end of the day. His boat looked great running on the water. Interior is awesome. But he designed most of it himself. He actively participated in the building of his boat. I think that made a huge difference. And Kachina does some of the most creative artwork out there. hmmmmmmm, I can't think of too many more nice things to say. All out of thoughts this morning! :boxed:

[Big Warlock]

And I am always available to have a discussion. In my office or at the lake. I always have time to discuss boats and any other interesting issues of the day. FYI
Thanks to two others who posted as well. I am not on anyone's side. Just like to voice my opinion when I get the chance. I put my jeans on one leg at a time every day. And for the record, I get my ass handed to me pretty often. You can see her pic on here from some months past. And sometimes she even hangs with me!
Jordy, the gate code is not the one she gave you and I did change the locks on the house. Nice try though! Had a talk with her about letting you near anything. Maybe she understands now? Catch you all later. Have to finish a bid! :crossx:

[BadKachina]

I do have a sense of humor BTW, and I was joking with Rob (Donzi, eat me Rob) Honestly, Jordy, Rob, it gets old. I think your position would change if every time a thread came up, fifty people came on said what a POS your particular brand of boat was. I just don't see what your stake is in attacking Kachina's. Some one like Ken has a personal stake in it, or any Kachina owner that's unhappy. I feel like you two are bandwagon bashers....
You can continue to say what you want but I would like you to know there are some of us that take pride in our Kachina's and we find your attacks personal. With that being said, Jordy hasn't said much on the negative side in quite some time and we've noticed it and appreciated it.
I would like to say that it doesn't bother me but since five of my closest friends have Kachina's and our subject of conversation when we are together usually consists of what said on ***boat the prior week, I guess it really does bug most us. The majority of the time I'm defending Jordy and reminding every one that it's all fun and games and that he doesn't mean anything personal by it. I'm just trying to say that at this point I'm taking it personal. If you don't care and want to attack me personally that's fine. Im not going to threaten anyone or do or say anything stupid, I'll just know where I stand with you and go about my way.
Thanks, Paul........

[rivercrazy]

It cracks me up that when someone asks for a 2 boat comparision that someone always has to SPAM a brand other than the 2 requested.
And fake board names are created to defend one of the brands (usually the lower end brand).
I have nothing against Kachina's. But to compare them to a Lavey head to head is pretty funny to me :D

[Biglue]

What do you guys think about Commander? :rolleyes: :D

[Jordy]

I think your position would change if every time a thread came up, fifty people came on said what a POS your particular brand of boat was.
I still don't see where anyone said the boat is a piece of shit. Must have missed that post. All I've seen is people saying that it's not on the same tier as the Lavey's, Eliminators, DCB's, et. al. :idea:
Jordy hasn't said much on the negative side in quite some time and we've noticed it and appreciated it.
Who is we??? You have a Kachina Owners Guild (KOG) or something that we're not aware of??? POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!!! :idea: :D
As has been repeatedly pointed out, if it gets you out on the water, great. If you're happy with it, great. If you have no problem driving around with a "no two boats alike" kind of paint job on it, great. More power to you for buying a "custom" boat.
Paul, I do like what you did with your graphics after the fact though. No worries on seeing another one like it either, right??? :D :D :D
http://www2.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14715
Don't make me bust out the YMCA pic. :D

[Big Warlock]

Paul:
It wasn't meant to be personal. There are only two brands of boats that typically get bashed on here. We won't go through that again. Not meant to offend you or anyone. I think the point was making the comparison between two boats that are not alike in construction. If you want to dispute that, let's have a beer, trailer over some boats and I will be happy to point out some differences which I think are important. (Flashlight test is one)
If someone asks an opinion, I am going to give mine. Seems this thread is pretty positive about Lavey. I apologize to those I offended. Again, there are certain people out there that continue to try to make those of us that buy a "other" brand of boat as losers because we spent significantly more money. That was why I brought up the car illustration as well. Somehow they got a screaming deal and we are just too dumb to understand it. And then if you give your credentials as an engineer or whatever, some other yahoo logs on with a new made up name to bash you. I'm not hiding. As was pointed out, I love to discuss this stuff. And I know materials, boats, rigging, etc. etc. and I learn something new everyday. Trying to explain why you spend a million on an Outerlimits when you could have bought a Kachina for $180K is the kind of thing I like to discuss. It's not for everyone.
I will try to be more politically correct in the future. I don't want your cousin pissed at me as well.! :) I think everything else has been said. And it's not like you tie up with us or anything. And you are more than welcome to. :crossx:
Rob
All done?

[King Karma]

So Rob, you say you know materials, boats, rigging etc.... Right????? Please explain to me the differences in the fiberglass used by the different manufacturers, and their layup schedules. Oh..... and Mercury has "THE CHEAP MOTORS " uhhhh which ones are these, and who uses them? :D

[Big Warlock]

It's great to see so many new people joining up to get information! Awesome!
Let's see if I might be able to assist you here. Fiberglass can be laid in different manners. There is a skill to laying fiberglass. And materials, such as composites can be added to increase strength and such. Often times balsa wood is used as a core, bagged and then the manufacturer will add his own twist on a fiberglass resin materials mixed with other components to increase strength and reduce weight. You can find more about the balsa wood core and bagging from many of the builders as they offer it as a upgrade to the "normal", fiberglass layup. Everyone has a trade off from weight to strength. You can also use less fiberglass which makes for a "light" layup. Not as strong and not as expensive either. If you can see light coming through your hull while inside, you probably have a light layup. Racing boats for offshore have light layups and exotic components but tend to last only a few years. Their purpose is only to get through the season. Not more or less. Kevlar is being used as well. Other new composite materials are being used in aircraft and boats to increase strength and reduce weight.
My little Scarab weighed more than my Warlock and the Warlock had ten feet on the Scarab! Scarab was plain jane in terms of fiberglass, but layed heavy! Warlock was a balsa wood cored boat. Super strong and light. I think it's $5500 add to the sticker.
As far as components within the boat, your right. Often times they are all OEM type of components that work within several platforms. Mercury engines for example. Bravo drives, gauges, etc. etc. All off the shelf components. This makes it easy in terms of replacement and repairs. I love my merc products. Only one of my boats has a motor built outside of an off the shelf marine product. However, rigging is a large factor. The quality of the rigging is key to longevity and having mishaps. There was a boat parked out next to a freeway where the claim was faulty rigging if I recall?
Does that help? Any chance any of you want to communicate with your previous handles? Or are we all going to start new memberships and discuss this in this fashion? Like I have said, I love to discuss this stuff. :crossx:

[King Karma]

It's great to see so many new people joining up to get information! Awesome!
Let's see if I might be able to assist you here. Fiberglass can be laid in different manners. There is a skill to laying fiberglass. And materials, such as composites can be added to increase strength and such. Often times balsa wood is used as a core, bagged and then the manufacturer will add his own twist on a fiberglass resin materials mixed with other components to increase strength and reduce weight. You can find more about the balsa wood core and bagging from many of the builders as they offer it as a upgrade to the "normal", fiberglass layup. Everyone has a trade off from weight to strength. You can also use less fiberglass which makes for a "light" layup. Not as strong and not as expensive either. If you can see light coming through your hull while inside, you probably have a light layup. Racing boats for offshore have light layups and exotic components but tend to last only a few years. Their purpose is only to get through the season. Not more or less. Kevlar is being used as well. Other new composite materials are being used in aircraft and boats to increase strength and reduce weight.
My little Scarab weighed more than my Warlock and the Warlock had ten feet on the Scarab! Scarab was plain jane in terms of fiberglass, but layed heavy! Warlock was a balsa wood cored boat. Super strong and light. I think it's $5500 add to the sticker.
As far as components within the boat, your right. Often times they are all OEM type of components that work within several platforms. Mercury engines for example. Bravo drives, gauges, etc. etc. All off the shelf components. This makes it easy in terms of replacement and repairs. I love my merc products. Only one of my boats has a motor built outside of an off the shelf marine product. However, rigging is a large factor. The quality of the rigging is key to longevity and having mishaps. There was a boat parked out next to a freeway where the claim was faulty rigging if I recall?
Does that help? Any chance any of you want to communicate with your previous handles? Or are we all going to start new memberships and discuss this in this fashion? Like I have said, I love to discuss this stuff. :crossx: hey big whatever.... What are the differences in the fiberglass itself??? You stated that some manufactures use "cheap fiberglass" this I have never heard of .. Yes there are differences in the layup schedules per manufacturer but, they all use the same glass!!!!! As for the "CHEAP Merc motors" Im still trying to figure out where the hell you pulled that one out of with all the extensive boat RIGGING, MATIERIAL, and manufacturing knowledge you have....AS for the "Flashlight Test" don't you think that no matter how heavy the boat was layed up, the final transparancy of the glass is determined by the thickness of the gelcoat or the color of the gelcoat on the outside of the boat. even before it gets to that point, the coremat or the balsa. I havent seen quarter inch balsa that you could shine a flashlight through yet!!!!! :yuk:

[No Name]

To all involved.
Why don’t we all just quit now, I think that more then enough has been said already. This has been a fun time and many laughs but I think the time has come to put it to rest. With that being said I hope everyone has a good night.
Mark.

[dicudmore]

hey big whatever.... What are the differences in the fiberglass itself??? You stated that some manufactures use "cheap fiberglass" this I have never heard of .. Yes there are differences in the layup schedules per manufacturer but, they all use the same glass!!!!! As for the "CHEAP Merc motors" Im still trying to figure out where the hell you pulled that one out of with all the extensive boat RIGGING, MATIERIAL, and manufacturing knowledge you have....AS for the "Flashlight Test" don't you think that no matter how heavy the boat was layed up, the final transparancy of the glass is determined by the thickness of the gelcoat or the color of the gelcoat on the outside of the boat. even before it gets to that point, the coremat or the balsa. I havent seen quarter inch balsa that you could shine a flashlight through yet!!!!! :yuk:
there are different glass materials, (4oz. mat??) and different ways to lay it...
different resins (polyester, vinylester etc)
I do NOT build boats for a living, however its pretty obvious that they are not all built the same...if you want to have a little fun next time there is a boat show (or a willing owner??) go push on or punch the hull-sides of a few different manufacturers boats and come back and tell me they are the same. In fact I'll call one out...go push on the side of an HTM 24' Cat (just like the one they had at the LA show this year)...just be careful not to put your hand through the focking thing, because I bet if you hit it hard enough you could.

[Big Warlock]

hey big whatever.... What are the differences in the fiberglass itself??? You stated that some manufactures use "cheap fiberglass" this I have never heard of .. Yes there are differences in the layup schedules per manufacturer but, they all use the same glass!!!!! As for the "CHEAP Merc motors" Im still trying to figure out where the hell you pulled that one out of with all the extensive boat RIGGING, MATIERIAL, and manufacturing knowledge you have....AS for the "Flashlight Test" don't you think that no matter how heavy the boat was layed up, the final transparancy of the glass is determined by the thickness of the gelcoat or the color of the gelcoat on the outside of the boat. even before it gets to that point, the coremat or the balsa. I havent seen quarter inch balsa that you could shine a flashlight through yet!!!!! :yuk:
Sorry but I never said anything about cheap fiberglass or cheap merc motors. Where did you get that? Do you have spell check?

[No Name]

Do you have spell check?
I do,but I still fock up....But I think with all the time spent on hot boat lately I'm getting little better. :)
I like going back to school. :D :D

[AZJD]

hey big whatever.... What are the differences in the fiberglass itself??? You stated that some manufactures use "cheap fiberglass" this I have never heard of .. Yes there are differences in the layup schedules per manufacturer but, they all use the same glass!!!!! As for the "CHEAP Merc motors" Im still trying to figure out where the hell you pulled that one out of with all the extensive boat RIGGING, MATIERIAL, and manufacturing knowledge you have....AS for the "Flashlight Test" don't you think that no matter how heavy the boat was layed up, the final transparancy of the glass is determined by the thickness of the gelcoat or the color of the gelcoat on the outside of the boat. even before it gets to that point, the coremat or the balsa. I havent seen quarter inch balsa that you could shine a flashlight through yet!!!!! :yuk:
I will agree that you can't shine a flash light through balsa, but then again performance boats are not built entirely of wood, you idiot..........

[King Karma]

Sorry but I never said anything about cheap fiberglass or cheap merc motors. Where did you get that? Do you have spell check? you better look at your previous posts from yesterday... Spell check?????no time :D

[King Karma]

I will agree that you can't shine a flash light through balsa, but then again performance boats are not built entirely of wood, you idiot..........
OHHH did I say they are made entirely out of wood??? my mistake ...Here we go another team turkey guy trying to act like he has a clue.... ever built a boat smart guy???? oh wait hold on....Idiot " Team Turkey We Like BOYS"

[Jordy]

you better look at your previous posts from yesterday...
OK, time to educate the ignorant... Big Warlock didn't say anything about better fiberglass, better Merc engines or the like. I was curious about it so I found this post back on page 2:
Lets see, the Lavey has better fiberglass, better vinyl and carpet, better Merc motors, drives and controls, and it comes with Beede gauges (who??). The Kachina comes with Autometer gauges, cheaper fiberglass, cheaper Merc motors and controls.......... :rolleyes:
BadKachina made the post and the little guys with the rolling eyes, like this guy here ---> :rolleyes: at the end of the sentences denotes sarcasm. Apparently he was too subtle with it, then again, you don't even know who made the post in the first place Einstein. :notam:

[AZJD]

OHHH did I say they are made entirely out of wood??? my mistake ...Here we go another team turkey guy trying to act like he has a clue.... ever built a boat smart guy???? oh wait hold on....Idiot " Team Turkey We Like BOYS"
Have you ever built a boat? You can't even cop to a real identity, let alone hold any credibility with me when it comes to building a boat. As far as the liking boys thing.......that cracks me up! Keep going, you are starting to grab my attention!

[King Karma]

OK, time to educate the ignorant... Big Warlock didn't say anything about better fiberglass, better Merc engines or the like. I was curious about it so I found this post back on page 2:
BadKachina made the post and the little guys with the rolling eyes, like this guy here ---> :rolleyes: at the end of the sentences denotes sarcasm. Apparently he was too subtle with it, then again, you don't even know who made the post in the first place Einstein. :notam:
it was big warlock not bad kachina, and it was before the post you just posted.. I saw this yesterday and thought it was quite amusing because I had never heard this before, and coming from a person who claims to have a lot of knowledge made it even funnier :p

[King Karma]

Have you ever built a boat? You can't even cop to a real identity, let alone hold any credibility with me when it comes to building a boat. As far as the liking boys thing.......that cracks me up! Keep going, you are starting to grab my attention!
I read a post that greengo had made a while back and thought it was funny how mad it made jordy. So now in my eyes he has been crowned the sausage king... :) I can't say I care for this particular person just from the posts, and seeing him out on the water with a boat full of guys every time I see him.

[Big Warlock]

Sorry King Karma, can't find where I said that. If you can, feel free to quote and post it. There is a difference in the types of resins used in fiberglass. But I need to get going this evening. Good luck with the bashing thing. Your doing great! :crossx:

[Jordy]

it was big warlock not bad kachina, and it was before the post you just posted..
Hmmm... I must be missing it. The post that was quoted by BadKachina was post #47 on page 2 and Big Warlock's first post in this thread was on page 3 and it was post #58. :idea:
I bet the board deleted the "mystery" post just to make it look like you have no idea what you're talking about. Nah, you're doing a good enough job of that on your own. :D
Sure am glad you're here to do some educating though. :D :D :D

[King Karma]

Sorry King Karma, can't find where I said that. If you can, feel free to quote and post it. There is a difference in the types of resins used in fiberglass. But I need to get going this evening. Good luck with the bashing thing. Your doing great! :crossx:
Ill Look.... Thanks, I can't let that little punk jordy have all the bashing fun, so I am taking my turn :rollside:

[Big Warlock]

Well King Karma, or Karl....whatever.........what kind of boat do you have? Do you build boats? Maybe you can educate us and let us in on how it's done? I'm interested in where we went wrong with our analysis. So far, you have mis quoted me and haven't added anything to the conversation. So just curious about your experience / education regarding boat building. :cool:

[King Karma]

Well King Karma, or Karl....whatever.........what kind of boat do you have? Do you build boats? Maybe you can educate us and let us in on how it's done? I'm interested in where we went wrong with our analysis. So far, you have mis quoted me and haven't added anything to the conversation. So just curious about your experience / education regarding boat building. :cool: I have some knowledge and what I dont know I can findout any question just ask...I Know some one who works for a boat manufacturer in havi....GOOD NIGHT ALL :yuk:

[Jordy]

I read a post that greengo had made a while back and thought it was funny how mad it made jordy.
Sorry, it's the internet and I don't get mad over things that are posted on here. Actually, I think it's pretty hilarious. Especially since apparently you're enough of a loser to take the time to come on here with a fake screen name and start taking juvenile shots at me. Nice to know that I've affected your life that much. :D :D :D

[No Name]

Well King Karma, or Karll:
Never thought of that :idea: I was thinking a Kachina owner or an employee.
Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer. :)

[BadKachina]

KK, that was sarcasm about the motors. Louie doesn't use anything any other builder doesn't use, and Merc doesn't sell a cheaper engine package to anyone.
Flashlight test is a valid point, I've been under the dash of Bayliner and been able to see the shop lights shining through. There are some boats with lighter layups, not particularly for racing but obviously to save money. Louies boats are balsa cored, I'd be happy to show you the cutouts for the speakers in the side panels and the holes for gauges in the dash that are at least 3/4 of an inch thick if not more. If anything Louie builds a heavy boat, they aren't shy about it either. The resin and glass on my floor made putting the Pirelli floor in a pain in the ass, the sides where the floor would meet would be an easy 1/4 thicker because of the overlapping glass making it almost impossible to lay the floor down without seeing it. Lots of sanding and epoxy were added to smooth it all out.
I don't have a problem tying up to you Rob or Jordy, unless I'm not welcome I'll still continue to do so when the occasion arises. I've usually promised to visit more people than I can actually do. Remember, I work on boats and have customers that I regularly promise to stop and say high to on the weekends and I'm usually overwhelmed when I hit the cove, trying not to offend anyone and spend time at least being cordual to everyone. In no way am I trying to avoid you guys. Not to mention I usually have a couple of friends with boats too. It's almost too much of a hassle getting out on the weekends than it's worth. You end up visiting with half the people you said you would and blowing off the other half.
This is just entertainment, the whole internet thing. On the other hand nobody wants to here that their boat, car, house, whatever is subpar to someone elses.
Jordy you know who I roll with, Brett(from Kachina), Pat(green-go), Scott (my cousin), Mark (no-name), Nick (30 Kachina with the blue tribal), and a couple of others. You cant honestly believe that they all don't take exception to negative comments about their rides and their work (Brett and Pat). You may not think we don't take it personal but on some levels we do.
I can take the pictures and the joking between us better than taking shots at Kachina in general. Can't we all just get along???????
BTW, I'm glad you pulled the stickers off your sled too (that may be one of the reasons I haven't always tied up to you in the past). :rollside:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/3078jordy1.JPG

[No Name]

KK, that was sarcasm about the motors. Louie doesn't use anything any other builder doesn't use, and Merc doesn't sell a cheaper engine package to anyone.
Flashlight test is a valid point, I've been under the dash of Bayliner and been able to see the shop lights shining through. There are some boats with lighter layups, not particularly for racing but obviously to save money. Louies boats are balsa cored, I'd be happy to show you the cutouts for the speakers in the side panels and the holes for gauges in the dash that are at least 3/4 of an inch thick if not more. If anything Louie builds a heavy boat, they aren't shy about it either. The resin and glass on my floor made putting the Pirelli floor in a pain in the ass, the sides where the floor would meet would be an easy 1/4 thicker because of the overlapping glass making it almost impossible to lay the floor down without seeing it. Lots of sanding and epoxy were added to smooth it all out.
I don't have a problem tying up to you Rob or Jordy, unless I'm not welcome I'll still continue to do so when the occasion arises. I've usually promised to visit more people than I can actually do. Remember, I work on boats and have customers that I regularly promise to stop and say high to on the weekends and I'm usually overwhelmed when I hit the cove, trying not to offend anyone and spend time at least being cordual to everyone. In no way am I trying to avoid you guys. Not to mention I usually have a couple of friends with boats too. It's almost too much of a hassle getting out on the weekends than it's worth. You end up visiting with half the people you said you would and blowing off the other half.
This is just entertainment, the whole internet thing. On the other hand nobody wants to here that their boat, car, house, whatever is subpar to someone elses.
Jordy you know who I roll with, Brett(from Kachina), Pat(green-go), Scott (my cousin), Mark (no-name), Nick (30 Kachina with the blue tribal), and a couple of others. You cant honestly believe that they all don't take exception to negative comments about their rides and their work (Brett and Pat). You may not think we don't take it personal but on some levels we do.
I can take the pictures and the joking between us better than taking shots at Kachina in general. Can't we all just get along???????
BTW, I'm glad you pulled the stickers off your sled too (that may be one of the reasons I haven't always tied up to you in the past). :rollside:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/3078jordy1.JPG
Paul's home. Whats up Paul?
Round two, let's get it on.

[Jordy]

Jordy you know who I roll with, Brett(from Kachina), Pat(green-go), Scott (my cousin), Mark (no-name), Nick (30 Kachina with the blue tribal), and a couple of others.
Yeah, but I can't tell who is who in this picture. :D :D :D
http://www2.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14732&stc=1
BTW, I met Brett out at the ramp the other day. Really cool guy. ;)

[BadKachina]

Yeah, but I can't tell who is who in this picture. :D :D :D
BTW, I met Brett out at the ramp the other day. Really cool guy. ;)
I know, he told me. I saw him this weekend too. Brett's the coolest most mellow person you'll ever meet and he'd do anything he could to help someone out. :wink: With that said, he takes this crap to heart and his employer wont let him reply to anything here..........
I'm the one with hat on in the picture. :rollside:

[No Name]

I'm the one with hat on in the picture. :rollside:
And it looks great on you. :D :D :D

[AZJD]

I know, he told me. I saw him this weekend too. Brett's the coolest most mellow person you'll ever meet and he'd do anything he could to help someone out. :wink: With that said, he takes this crap to heart and his employer wont let him reply to anything here..........
I'm the one with hat on in the picture. :rollside:
Thats funny Paul, you guys broke out some photo chop from the Honeyman thread!
See you on the water....BTW I don't have a no Kachina clause, or I wouldn't have any friends with boats....
Tie up anytime!

[Devil's Advocate]

I wish I had a Cigarette, Skater, or Outerlimits. Then I'd tell you that all your damn boats suck ass... :rollside:
Opinions are like a$$holes, everyone's got one.
Hey gmejia, were you able to sift through all the bull$hit talk on this thread and formulate a direction on what boat you thought would be the best buy? I hope so. I'm sure you didn't realize you'd be opening Pandora's box :220v:

[NOTALENT]

Wow..through all the bull s h it and nonsense....I actually learned a few things about lay up....hehe...this place is good for something.... :crossx:

[AZJD]

I wish I had a Cigarette, Skater, or Outerlimits. Then I'd tell you that all your damn boats suck ass... :rollside:
Opinions are like a$$holes, everyone's got one.
Hey gmejia, were you able to sift through all the bull$hit talk on this thread and formulate a direction on what boat you thought would be the best buy? I hope so. I'm sure you didn't realize you'd be opening Pandora's box :220v:
Anytime you mention Kachina it's bound to be a show......I only know one person who owns on that is unhappy! I will say I have several friends that love their Kachina's.......would I buy one? Probably not, just so I didn't have to listen to everyone say I told you so if anything were to happen. I personally think that it has to do with dealing with Louie that tends to be the problem.......just my .02 I haven't actually compared boat to boat with a Kachina. Then again I drive a Warlock, what could compare! lol :) :) :) :) I just gave you all a chance to bash me!

[Playbuoy]

hey big whatever.... What are the differences in the fiberglass itself??? You stated that some manufactures use "cheap fiberglass" this I have never heard of .. Yes there are differences in the layup schedules per manufacturer but, they all use the same glass!!!!! As for the "CHEAP Merc motors" Im still trying to figure out where the hell you pulled that one out of with all the extensive boat RIGGING, MATIERIAL, and manufacturing knowledge you have....AS for the "Flashlight Test" don't you think that no matter how heavy the boat was layed up, the final transparancy of the glass is determined by the thickness of the gelcoat or the color of the gelcoat on the outside of the boat. even before it gets to that point, the coremat or the balsa. I havent seen quarter inch balsa that you could shine a flashlight through yet!!!!! :yuk:
Can I change my handle to wikipedia? :argue:
There are two main types of glass fiber manufacture and two main types of glass fiber product. First, fiber is made either from a direct melt process or a marble remelt process. Both start with the raw materials in solid form. The materials are mixed together and melted in a furnace. Then, for the marble process, the molten material is sheared and rolled into marbles which are cooled and packaged. The marbles are taken to the fiber manufacturing facility where they are inserted into a can and remelted. The molten glass is extruded to the bushing to be formed into fiber. In the direct melt process, the molten glass in the furnace goes right to the bushing for formation. [4]
The bushing plate is the most important part of the machinery. This is a small metal furnace containing nozzles for the fiber to be formed through. It is almost always made of platinum alloyed with rhodium for durability. Platinum is used because the glass melt has a natural affinity for wetting it. When bushings were first used they were 100% platinum and the glass wetted the bushing so easily it ran under the plate after exiting the nozzle and accumulated on the underside. Also, due to its cost and the tendency to wear, the platinum was alloyed with rhodium. In the direct melt process, the bushing serves as a collector for the molten glass. It is heated slightly to keep the glass at the correct temperature for fiber formation. In the marble melt process, the bushing acts more like a furnace as it melts more of the material. [1]
The bushings are what make the capital investment in fiber glass production expensive. The nozzle design is also critical. The number of nozzles ranges from 200 to 4000 in multiples of 200. The important part of the nozzle in continuous filament manufacture is the thickness of its walls in the exit region. It was found that inserting a counterbore here reduced wetting. Today, the nozzles are designed to have a minimum thickness at the exit. The reason for this is that as glass flows through the nozzle it forms a drop which is suspended from the end. As it falls, it leaves a thread attached by the meniscus to the nozzle as long as the viscosity is in the correct range for fiber formation. The smaller the annular ring of the nozzle or the thinner the wall at exit, the faster the drop will form and fall away, and the lower its tendency to wet the vertical part of the nozzle. [1] The surface tension of the glass is what influences the formation of the meniscus. For E-glass it should be around 400 mN per m. [3]
The attenuation (drawing) speed is important in the nozzle design. Although slowing this speed down can make coarser fiber, it is uneconomic to run at speeds for which the nozzles were not designed. [1]
In the continuous filament process, after the fiber is drawn, a size is applied. This size helps protect the fiber as it is wound onto a bobbin. The particular size applied relates to end-use. While some sizes are processing aids, others make the fiber have an affinity for a certain resin, if the fiber is to be used in a composite. [4] Size is usually added at 0.5–2.0% by weight. Winding then takes place at around 1000 m per min. [2]
In staple fiber production, there are a number of ways to manufacture the fiber. The glass can be blown or blasted with heat or steam after exiting the formation machine. Usually these fibers are made into some sort of mat. The most common process used is the rotary process. Here, the glass enters a rotating spinner, and due to centrifugal force is thrown out horizontally. The air jets pushes it down vertically and binder is applied. Then the mat is vacuumed to a screen and the binder is cured in the oven. [5]
End uses for regular fiber glass are mats, insulation, reinforcement, heat resistant fabrics, corrosion resistant fabrics and high strength fabrics.

[No Name]

Can I change my handle to wikipedia? :argue:
There are two main types of glass fiber manufacture and two main types of glass fiber product. First, fiber is made either from a direct melt process or a marble remelt process. Both start with the raw materials in solid form. The materials are mixed together and melted in a furnace. Then, for the marble process, the molten material is sheared and rolled into marbles which are cooled and packaged. The marbles are taken to the fiber manufacturing facility where they are inserted into a can and remelted. The molten glass is extruded to the bushing to be formed into fiber. In the direct melt process, the molten glass in the furnace goes right to the bushing for formation. [4]
The bushing plate is the most important part of the machinery. This is a small metal furnace containing nozzles for the fiber to be formed through. It is almost always made of platinum alloyed with rhodium for durability. Platinum is used because the glass melt has a natural affinity for wetting it. When bushings were first used they were 100% platinum and the glass wetted the bushing so easily it ran under the plate after exiting the nozzle and accumulated on the underside. Also, due to its cost and the tendency to wear, the platinum was alloyed with rhodium. In the direct melt process, the bushing serves as a collector for the molten glass. It is heated slightly to keep the glass at the correct temperature for fiber formation. In the marble melt process, the bushing acts more like a furnace as it melts more of the material. [1]
The bushings are what make the capital investment in fiber glass production expensive. The nozzle design is also critical. The number of nozzles ranges from 200 to 4000 in multiples of 200. The important part of the nozzle in continuous filament manufacture is the thickness of its walls in the exit region. It was found that inserting a counterbore here reduced wetting. Today, the nozzles are designed to have a minimum thickness at the exit. The reason for this is that as glass flows through the nozzle it forms a drop which is suspended from the end. As it falls, it leaves a thread attached by the meniscus to the nozzle as long as the viscosity is in the correct range for fiber formation. The smaller the annular ring of the nozzle or the thinner the wall at exit, the faster the drop will form and fall away, and the lower its tendency to wet the vertical part of the nozzle. [1] The surface tension of the glass is what influences the formation of the meniscus. For E-glass it should be around 400 mN per m. [3]
The attenuation (drawing) speed is important in the nozzle design. Although slowing this speed down can make coarser fiber, it is uneconomic to run at speeds for which the nozzles were not designed. [1]
In the continuous filament process, after the fiber is drawn, a size is applied. This size helps protect the fiber as it is wound onto a bobbin. The particular size applied relates to end-use. While some sizes are processing aids, others make the fiber have an affinity for a certain resin, if the fiber is to be used in a composite. [4] Size is usually added at 0.5–2.0% by weight. Winding then takes place at around 1000 m per min. [2]
In staple fiber production, there are a number of ways to manufacture the fiber. The glass can be blown or blasted with heat or steam after exiting the formation machine. Usually these fibers are made into some sort of mat. The most common process used is the rotary process. Here, the glass enters a rotating spinner, and due to centrifugal force is thrown out horizontally. The air jets pushes it down vertically and binder is applied. Then the mat is vacuumed to a screen and the binder is cured in the oven. [5]
End uses for regular fiber glass are mats, insulation, reinforcement, heat resistant fabrics, corrosion resistant fabrics and high strength fabrics.
I’m sure you have a good point but that’s just to much to read. :D :D :D

[BadKachina]

I’m sure you have a good point but that’s just to much to read. :D :D :D
I see you've post whored your way to 400. :D :D

[Devil's Advocate]

I see you've post whored your way to 400. :D :D
I was thinking the same thing.....When do you get to graduate? :D

[BadKachina]

I was thinking the same thing.....When do you get to graduate? :D
When he catches up to Jordy. :boxed:

[AZJD]

I see you've post whored your way to 400. :D :D
I am glad you at least pretend to be my friend and wave on the water when you see me because your photo chop skills are way to good!

[Devil's Advocate]

When he catches up to Jordy. :boxed:
Not me, I'm a flunkie! :cry:

[Jordy]

When he catches up to Jordy. :boxed:
Shouldn't be that hard to do. I don't post that much here anymore, with the exception of course of the last few days, but only because it's been too much fun not to!!! :D :D :D

[BadKachina]

I am glad you at least pretend to be my friend and wave on the water when you see me because your photo chop skills are way to good!
You are a cool dude, I'd hang with you anytime. Jordy is the chop master, his skills are far greater than mine........That's no photoshop BTW, I actually stuck that to the roll............... :crossx:

[AZJD]

You are a cool dude, I'd hang with you anytime. Jordy is the chop master, his skills are far greater than mine........That's no photoshop BTW, I actually stuck that to the roll............... :crossx:
Well then your patience is obviously far greater than mine!!!!!

[No Name]

You are a cool dude, I'd hang with you anytime. Jordy is the chop master, his skills are far greater than mine........That's no photoshop BTW, I actually stuck that to the roll............... :crossx:
Just about all of us boaters are way cool, at least when we are all out on the water. :confused:
Paul, that new signature is about the most creative thing I've seen in a long time. :D :D :D

[Jordy]

That's no photoshop BTW, I actually stuck that to the roll............... :crossx:
Now that's funny right there!!! :D :D :D

[King Karma]

Sorry, it's the internet and I don't get mad over things that are posted on here. Actually, I think it's pretty hilarious. Especially since apparently you're enough of a loser to take the time to come on here with a fake screen name and start taking juvenile shots at me. Nice to know that I've affected your life that much. :D :D :D
Don't kid yourself jordy... You are far from affecting my life.. I just read some of your posts every once and a while and every time, you are bashing someone else or their boats just for the simple fact they don't share the same opinion or have the same taste as you....Talk about juvenile. You say every one on the water is all friends.. Riiiight..... I hope you dont think that the riggers and the old gelcoater from kachina share the same opinion about you as you just recently do of them. After all you have spent the better part of a year bashing their work. I just dont like you as a person. And I dont agree with most of your opinions that are posted... I havent met you in person yet, but I shure hope this is all played up just for the internet.. Remember, it is hard for people to voice thier opinions when they arent allowed to. " Team Turkey..... People helping other people form BIAS opinions"

[King Karma]

I’m sure you have a good point but that’s just to much to read. :D :D :D
LOL.... yah... wow way too much but, very interesting...Thanks for the info.

[MagicMtnDan]

.Don't kid yourself jordy... You are far from affecting my life.. I just read some of your posts every once and a while and every time, you are bashing someone else or their boats just for the simple fact they don't share the same opinion or have the same taste as you....Talk about juvenile. You say every one on the water is all friends.. Riiiight..... I hope you dont think that the riggers and the old gelcoater from kachina share the same opinion about you as you just recently do of them. After all you have spent the better part of a year bashing their work. I just dont like you as a person. And I dont agree with most of your opinions that are posted... I havent met you in person yet, but I shure hope this is all played up just for the internet.. Remember, it is hard for people to voice thier opinions when they arent allowed to. " Team Turkey..... People helping other people form BIAS opinions".

[OnlyMoney]

Remember, it is hard for people to voice thier opinions when they arent allowed to. " Team Turkey..... People helping other people form BIAS opinions"
Hey, people think Jordy's an a$$hole, but I know he is. :rollside:

[MR HARLEY]

Jordy has never been an asshole to me so I dont see what the big deal is :D

[Jordy]

Don't kid yourself jordy... You are far from affecting my life..
Apparently I am as you took the time to register a fake name to hide behind. :notam:
I just read some of your posts every once and a while and every time, you are bashing someone else or their boats just for the simple fact they don't share the same opinion or have the same taste as you....Talk about juvenile.
Every time huh??? Wow, I must really be busy then. Oh, and if you'll do some research I don't bash anyones' boat, as they all do serve a purpose. I might question why about a few things, such as fat necked goblins on the side of a boat...
You know, I hope I'm not the only one who sees the irony in this comment. Every one of my posts huh??? Hey Pot... Yeah, what's up Kettle??? :notam:
You say every one on the water is all friends..
Nope, I've never said that. Really don't care. You see, much like the internet that you seem to take as gospel, I don't live my life like a popularity contest.
Riiiight..... I hope you dont think that the riggers and the old gelcoater from kachina share the same opinion about you as you just recently do of them. After all you have spent the better part of a year bashing their work.
Never bashed their work. You're so hung up on that. I will point out, when asked, that a Kachina isn't on the same playing field as say a Lavey or an Eliminator, but that's where it stops. There's an ass for every seat they say, and apparently it's true because Bayliner sells a shitload of boats. Does that make them on the same level as a Cigarette???
I just dont like you as a person.
You don't know me as a person, supposedly. I'm sure a little IP crosscheck might disprove that theory though. :notam:
And I dont agree with most of your opinions that are posted... I havent met you in person yet, but I shure hope this is all played up just for the internet..
I don't care if you agree with me or not. I'm not here to impress anyone. I've met some great people through these boards, and then there have been a few jackasses as well. Whatever, I still don't lose any sleep over it. Life's too short to get caught up in bullshit on the internet. Perhaps some day you'll realize that Karl, I mean Karma.
Remember, it is hard for people to voice thier opinions when they arent allowed to.
SWEET!!! Now I'm an oppressor, keeping the man down huh??? I now have the ability to stifle free speech!!! Man, my powers just get stronger by the day... :notam:
" Team Turkey..... People helping other people form BIAS opinions"
Wow, that's clever. Guess I have been slacking on my brainwashing and opinion forming. In fact, why don't you do another little bit of research and see where I have "helped" anyone form a bias opinion from a Team Turnkey standpoint. :D
Oh, and just so you know, I'm done replying to you. It's a waste of time trying to have a discussion with someone who has to hide behind a fake name while hiding behind a keyboard too. Some of that hiding will be taken care of shortly though. ;)

[Big Warlock]

I was going to let this die, but it was brought back tot he top.
So my question is to King Karma..............
If you have been on here for some time you most likely are on here in another name? And you have chosen this new name to voice your "true" opinions? Just curious.
Also, you know who we are. Easy enough to find that. But who are you? Az resident? Ca. resident? You in the boat business? I don't think your an english teacher and I have ruled out rocket scientist. Just trying to figure you out. You seem to know so much about us and what we are all about. :boxed: Little light on the reading and comprehension portion. A D D maybe? :crossx:
Feel free to vent away buddy! It has been educational and your post count is growing!
I will say this, there was another brand of boat that I am not very fond of. One of the owners of an actual boat invited me over to go through the boat and the rigging. He was very proud of his boat and what it was all about. I appreciated that. last weekend I went through a Kachina and was impressed with the layout and other items of interest on that boat. My opinion was that the owner of the boat was very involved in the building of that boat.
I invite people on to my boats all the time. We fabricate many of our own things here in the States and bring them down to the other boat as well. I enjoy figuring out things and getting them done with regards to boats. I hate the electrical stuff, but structures is more my thing.
I also enjoy when people tell me that a particular boat is actually "splashed" from a "Fountain /Scarab / etc. etc" If you wanted that then why didn't you just buy one of those?
We have banged this out several times. Everyone knows if you bring up this topic, someone is going to say something. Some people are price driven and others care to buy the best they can. Sometimes those two goals are the same. I want an Outerlimits. I have for years. But I made other choises in my life that make it not the best idea to go that route. :yuk:

[King Karma]

Apparently I am as you took the time to register a fake name to hide behind. :notam:
Every time huh??? Wow, I must really be busy then. Oh, and if you'll do some research I don't bash anyones' boat, as they all do serve a purpose. I might question why about a few things, such as fat necked goblins on the side of a boat...
Nope, I've never said that. Really don't care. You see, much like the internet that you seem to take as gospel, I don't live my life like a popularity contest.
Never bashed their work. You're so hung up on that. I will point out, when asked, that a Kachina isn't on the same playing field as say a Lavey or an Eliminator, but that's where it stops. There's an ass for every seat they say, and apparently it's true because Bayliner sells a shitload of boats. Does that make them on the same level as a Cigarette???
You don't know me as a person, supposedly. I'm sure a little IP crosscheck might disprove that theory though. :notam:
I don't care if you agree with me or not. I'm not here to impress anyone. I've met some great people through these boards, and then there have been a few jackasses as well. Whatever, I still don't lose any sleep over it. Life's too short to get caught up in bullshit on the internet. Perhaps some day you'll realize that Karl, I mean Karma.
SWEET!!! Now I'm an oppressor, keeping the man down huh??? I now have the ability to stifle free speech!!! Man, my powers just get stronger by the day... :notam:
Wow, that's clever. Guess I have been slacking on my brainwashing and opinion forming. In fact, why don't you do another little bit of research and see where I have "helped" anyone form a bias opinion from a Team Turnkey standpoint. :D
Oh, and just so you know, I'm done replying to you. It's a waste of time trying to have a discussion with someone who has to hide behind a fake name while hiding behind a keyboard too. Some of that hiding will be taken care of shortly though. ;)All the pm's I got from other readers help to reasure us that im not just blowing off steam, and others share my opinion. Also...Its not a popularity contest you are right...Thank god because nobody likes you, or your short little fat ass mouth...(outside of team turkey). You are too opinionated sometimes and not only do you piss people off, you have hurt some feelings. People work very hard and have a lot of pride for what they do and have. The last thing they want is to be told that all their hard work was wasted on junk.. Im still trying to figure out where you fit in.. I know for a fact when people told you the stickers on your spectra were shitty, You took it offensively and soon removed them.. The door swings bolth ways.. Jordy, you come off as being very arrogant, and there is a lot of us that know you are just someones lackey....Speak your mind or someone elses, it dosent matter.....like you said FREEDOM OF SPEACH great, sometimes abused, but it is a great thing and we all will continue to take advantage of this freedom. Just rember for every action there is an equivelent reaction. Dont cry about it. Your right time will tell... By the way Who the F___ is Karl??? And Great... Dont reply thats what we want....SHUT UP..

[King Karma]

I was going to let this die, but it was brought back tot he top.
So my question is to King Karma..............
If you have been on here for some time you most likely are on here in another name? And you have chosen this new name to voice your "true" opinions? Just curious.
Also, you know who we are. Easy enough to find that. But who are you? Az resident? Ca. resident? You in the boat business? I don't think your an english teacher and I have ruled out rocket scientist. Just trying to figure you out. You seem to know so much about us and what we are all about. :boxed: Little light on the reading and comprehension portion. A D D maybe? :crossx:
Feel free to vent away buddy! It has been educational and your post count is growing!
I will say this, there was another brand of boat that I am not very fond of. One of the owners of an actual boat invited me over to go through the boat and the rigging. He was very proud of his boat and what it was all about. I appreciated that. last weekend I went through a Kachina and was impressed with the layout and other items of interest on that boat. My opinion was that the owner of the boat was very involved in the building of that boat.
I invite people on to my boats all the time. We fabricate many of our own things here in the States and bring them down to the other boat as well. I enjoy figuring out things and getting them done with regards to boats. I hate the electrical stuff, but structures is more my thing.
I also enjoy when people tell me that a particular boat is actually "splashed" from a "Fountain /Scarab / etc. etc" If you wanted that then why didn't you just buy one of those?
We have banged this out several times. Everyone knows if you bring up this topic, someone is going to say something. Some people are price driven and others care to buy the best they can. Sometimes those two goals are the same. I want an Outerlimits. I have for years. But I made other choises in my life that make it not the best idea to go that route. :yuk: Hey B.W. Your right, english was not my major in college but what I did know got me through. Nothing personal against you. Truthfully you are one of the only ones that post their opinions..And have some credibility. I appreciate your knowledge and look forward to sharing more of it with you. I just dont like JORDY and there are a lot of us who share the same opinions..

[Jordy]

What a joke. :rolleyes:

[KACHINA KEN]

FREEDOM OF SPEACH
:)

[ChumpChange]

I invite people on to my boats all the time.
Ready when you are. Donzi here I come!!! :D :D :D

[RiverDave]

Bigger is always better....
The Shockwave 25" Tremor rides like 28 to 29 foot boat..... :idea:
In the very same post you just disagreed with yourself..
If bigger is "ALWAYS" better then how can a 25 ride like a 28 or 29?
The fact of the matter is Bigger isn't always better. I'd rather ride in a 21 Schiada then most almost all the 22's - 24's made today.. They do ride smoother and the boat is smaller!!
The 25 Shockwave is another example of that, I'm possitive that a 25 Shockwave will probably ride better then say a 28 Nordic. I doubt it'd be as fast with the same HP, but ride quality would be similar.
I've ridden in a big 30+ commander, and while the hull seemed to be "solid" it certainly didn't ride nearly as well out in the ocean as Carrera's 28.
It's all about the hull design, materials used, and how well the boat is built (through bolted?) from the ground up.
RD

[rivercrazy]

I agree with RD in general. Its the whole package that will dictate ride quality not just length. Beam, bottom design, bottom angle, weight, etc. In general longer boats ride better but not always.
RD - I've run with 28 nordics with 496HO's. They seem to all run in the 63-65mph range. Most 25 Shockwaves with the same power are running in the 68-72 mph range. But I'd venture to guess the Nordic is quite a bit heavier

[AZJD]

Hey Jackass, (KING KARMA)
If you are going to speak your opinion at least have the balls to pratice what you preach.........
Thank god because nobody likes you, or your short little fat ass mouth...(outside of team turkey). You are too opinionated sometimes and not only do you piss people off, you have hurt some feelings. People work very hard and have a lot of pride for what they do and have. The last thing they want is to be told that all their hard work was wasted on junk..
So I am trying to understand why you would throw this out on another thread........
I heard that Kachina molds their logos on the dash, and the swimstep of their boats .....LOOSER!!!!:220v:
Here you take shots at Big Warlock....
hey big whatever.... What are the differences in the fiberglass itself??? You stated that some manufactures use "cheap fiberglass" this I have never heard of .. Yes there are differences in the layup schedules per manufacturer but, they all use the same glass!!!!! As for the "CHEAP Merc motors" Im still trying to figure out where the hell you pulled that one out of with all the extensive boat RIGGING, MATIERIAL, and manufacturing knowledge you have....AS for the "Flashlight Test" don't you think that no matter how heavy the boat was layed up, the final transparancy of the glass is determined by the thickness of the gelcoat or the color of the gelcoat on the outside of the boat. even before it gets to that point, the coremat or the balsa. I havent seen quarter inch balsa that you could shine a flashlight through yet!!!!!
Then you make nice!
Hey B.W. Your right, english was not my major in college but what I did know got me through. Nothing personal against you. Truthfully you are one of the only ones that post their opinions..And have some credibility. I appreciate your knowledge and look forward to sharing more of it with you. I just dont like JORDY and there are a lot of us who share the same opinions..
I don't need to stick up for these guys, as they are all plenty capable of handling their own internet bashings, however I would like to see you draw a conclusion, and stick to it. Don't call someone out for bashing people, then come out and talk shit to another!

[HM]

I like grapes.

[LaveyOne]

I like grapes.
:D

[King Karma]

Hey Jackass, (KING KARMA)
If you are going to speak your opinion at least have the balls to pratice what you preach.........
So I am trying to understand why you would throw this out on another thread........
Here you take shots at Big Warlock....
Then you make nice!
I don't need to stick up for these guys, as they are all plenty capable of handling their own internet bashings, however I would like to see you draw a conclusion, and stick to it. Don't call someone out for bashing people, then come out and talk shit to another! First off.. I am entitled to my opinion just like anyone else. I choose to state my mind whenever I want just like anyone else.. If you have a problem with it, go somewhere else.. When I feel that someone is being rediculous I will state my opinion. FREEDOM OF SPEECH remember.. So I am doing nothing different than you guys when you just start shooting off your mouth. The reason I made nice with Big Warlock was because he actulally was trying to educate people and was reasonable with his posts, not being vendictive or trying to bash someone for having a difference in opinion.. This I have respect for and appreciate.. He was not trying to make himself look like king shit, like some of you others on here. Simply sharing constructive knowledge, witch is what everyone needs, and is one of the reason we are here. The other is entertainment... and this is entertaining. If the other people see some of the other opinions besides team turkies bias ones, soon they will start to just ignore you guys because they will know you are just talking out of your asses. This would be great for us all..mabye you will just go away.. Simply put WE ARE TIRED OF YOU GUYS... Open your minds a little bit.. The grass is greener on the other side..
It must suck living in a closed box!!.... Hey Donald didnt you get arrested for beating your wife or girlfriendor somthing like that????? WHAT A STAND UP GUY!!!!! Definitely someone I would take advice from...Way to be a real man..

[HM]

dragon flies?

[MagicMtnDan]

As the worm turns...
Sounds like someone is tired of someone's shit.
I personally don't see much difference in Team Turkey or the Beaumont Crew - neither one is/was good for these forums. :rolleyes:

[King Karma]

This thread couldn't possibly be any gayer.
Its only going to get better!!!!!!! :220v:

[King Karma]

By better, do you mean more gay? :D
As long as Donald and his team turkey cronies are around, you betcha :D

[King Karma]

As the worm turns...
Sounds like someone is tired of someone's shit.
I personally don't see much difference in Team Turkey or the Beaumont Crew - neither one is/was good for these forums. :rolleyes:
Thanks for the support Dan... Enough is enough ..Time to take out the trash.. :skull:

[Devil's Advocate]

That's it, all of you, get in your corners....You're all in time out!! :boxingguy :hammer2:

[MagicMtnDan]

It's already freakin' gay and a half.
Are you an ex-spurt? Just wondering how you gave it a "gay-and-a-half?" :D

[2Driver]

The needle on my gaydar is bent.
Replace it with a digital one, they work better anyway. You need it for this forum :D

[MagicMtnDan]

The needle on my gaydar is bent.
Is this yours?
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c285/fdmedictomc/gaydar.jpg

[2Driver]

Very similar except the gun faces to the rear. :crossx: :D

[AZJD]

First off.. I am entitled to my opinion just like anyone else. I choose to state my mind whenever I want just like anyone else.. If you have a problem with it, go somewhere else.. When I feel that someone is being rediculous I will state my opinion. FREEDOM OF SPEECH remember.. So I am doing nothing different than you guys when you just start shooting off your mouth. The reason I made nice with Big Warlock was because he actulally was trying to educate people and was reasonable with his posts, not being vendictive or trying to bash someone for having a difference in opinion.. This I have respect for and appreciate.. He was not trying to make himself look like king shit, like some of you others on here. Simply sharing constructive knowledge, witch is what everyone needs, and is one of the reason we are here. The other is entertainment... and this is entertaining. If the other people see some of the other opinions besides team turkies bias ones, soon they will start to just ignore you guys because they will know you are just talking out of your asses. This would be great for us all..mabye you will just go away.. Simply put WE ARE TIRED OF YOU GUYS... Open your minds a little bit.. The grass is greener on the other side..
It must suck living in a closed box!!.... Hey Donald didnt you get arrested for beating your wife or girlfriendor somthing like that????? WHAT A STAND UP GUY!!!!! Definitely someone I would take advice from...Way to be a real man..
Whats funny about this whole statement is the fact that you believe we are this one track minded group of people that don't like anyone here. None of us have gone on a bashing mission here. Jordan is Jordan, and if you don't like, or can't deal with him that is your opinion..........But to say Team Turnkey has gone above and beyond it's original purpose is just stupid. All the sig line logos have hung around, but no one has brought the threads back to the top more than the people with thing to say against it....such as yourself. If you have a problem with an individual, leave it at that! To drag other people into it, (Team Turnkey) is like B.S. Find a post anywhere on this site where myself, Her454, ItsOnlyMoney, Mr. Harley, Boater012, CenturionTunnel, forspeednup, and the many other people all sporting the logo have gone out of their way to bash someone for no reason! YOU CAN'T.........
I got an idea! :idea: Man up and call Jordan out! Let it be known who you are instead of hiding behind a keyboard. I have no problem with normal shit talking and bashing that goes on here....it's all harmless, however you are making it personal, and seem to have an agenda.
Quit hiding, handle your business or let the personal shit go! I understand that personal information gets dropped on here, but say what you want about a few people, and the things they say......everyone knows who they are and where to find them!

[OnlyMoney]

I got an idea! :idea: Man up and call Jordan out!
OMG, lmao. You are killing me!! :rollside: :rollside:

[460 jus getn it]

I havent posted in this thread. Its clear to me that some one is BIG PUSSY and does need to man up. Dont hid behind a fake name cause your too chicken shit to post this stuff under your regular name.

[King Karma]

I got an idea! :idea: Man up and call Jordan out! Do you Mean Donald????

[MagicMtnDan]

Sounds like someone thinks that King Karma is someone else hiding behind a new screen name :p

[Big Warlock]

Talk about hijacking a thread!! What was the original question? I can't believe it's lasted this long.
FYI, see you all on the lake tomorrow. :crossx:

[AZJD]

Talk about hijacking a thread!! What was the original question? I can't believe it's lasted this long.
FYI, see you all on the lake tomorrow. :crossx:
I don't think so Rob! I may get a last minute invite to roll with my new crew.........gobble gobble gobble

[Big Warlock]

What new crew??? LOL

[Jordy]

What new crew??? LOL
Team Turnkey was sold for a handsome profit. Team Turkey seems to be pretty well established and have a pretty cool motto. I'm all for it. :D :D :D
Working on stickers and shirts right now!!! :D :D :D

[Big Warlock]

I will see you guys tomorrow. I am at the Marina at 01:00pm looking for Troy and Eddie (Blue 27' baja and Yamaha thingy). Then I think we are hanging at the top of the aqua fria. :crossx:

[AZJD]

I will see you guys tomorrow. I am at the Marina at 01:00pm looking for Troy and Eddie (Blue 27' baja and Yamaha thingy). Then I think we are hanging at the top of the aqua fria. :crossx:
See there ya go talking shit about someones boat....."A Yamaha Thingy"......GAWSH :)

[460 jus getn it]

Team Turnkey was sold for a handsome profit. Team Turkey seems to be pretty well established and have a pretty cool motto. I'm all for it. :D :D :D
Working on stickers and shirts right now!!! :D :D :D
Say it aint so...........I do have to agree, people bashing people sounds much better

[AZJD]

Apparently I need to get involved.....24hrs in existance and we don't have shirts or stickers yet......I remember the days of good Team's and organization. Will someone please contact me I would like to help! :frown:

[460 jus getn it]

Apparently I need to get involved.....24hrs in existance and we don't have shirts or stickers yet......I remember the days of good Team's and organization. Will someone please contact me I would like to help! :frown:
Yea no shit, i do have to say im liking the new logo...Fits the organization much better

[Jordy]

Apparently I need to get involved.....24hrs in existance and we don't have shirts or stickers yet......
Hey, you need to do something around here. The website and email are already up.
www.team-turkey.com
:D :D :D

[AZJD]

Hey, you need to do something around here. The website and email are already up.
www.team-turkey.com
:D :D :D
Nice............. :)

[MR HARLEY]

Hey, you need to do something around here. The website and email are already up.
www.team-turkey.com
:D :D :D
:D

[460 jus getn it]

Hey, you need to do something around here. The website and email are already up.
www.team-turkey.com
:D :D :D
Golf clap for Jordy............................................. ..AWESOME

[AZJD]

Just curious, is it KINGKARMA@TEAM_TURKEY.COM :crossx: